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dabbler
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18:46:36 Dec 20 2009
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$75000 For a Painting By Gacy?

Manson's prison processing papers?

A Map to Nichols B. Simpson's address?

What is an acceptable fasination, when does it breach common decency?

Is ghoulish behaviour acceptable? To What degree?

What explainations have you heard from Murder Fans?





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shadowfever
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20:12:06 Dec 20 2009
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dabbler, I love the way you stir the pot with intelligence and artistry and then stand back to watch the turmoil unfold. I will have to keep an eye on this thread.



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TwistedRain
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21:50:33 Dec 20 2009
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i find murder to be acceptable because its natural,to kill is in almost every living creature,its only because of the law that its become a unacceptable and a crime.

the people in this world are born into the influence of the government and therefor they have the same views or what is right and what is wrong.

to me stealing and killing is perfectly right and natural because its survival,well the first one is sometimes.


the laws in this world holds more power than people think,it influences the way people think and their morality.
a few 100 years ago,people used to watch other people get hanged and burnt alive like it was entertainment or something because they were influenced by what the dominating force(religion/the inquisition) in that time called law,the people in this world are only as good/normal as the government lets/makes them.
thus humanity are nothing but puppets of the governent.

the point is,is that murder being wrong could change just like many things have through the past.because what is right and wrong is up to the government.



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VAMPIREBLONDEE
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22:09:59 Dec 20 2009
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Well, I have to admit I am somewhat drawn to the criminal minds in the fact that I like to understand what makes them tick. However, I would not pay for there souvenirs.

I also like to watch there life storys on TV and interviews with them.

Now, as far as the government influencing morals...that I do not agree with. There are many, many things that are legal but not morally correct. The government is full of legalities, not morals.



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TwistedRain
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22:13:34 Dec 20 2009
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i didn't say the government was maoral or full morals,i said they influence them by the law,example they make a law thats somewhat controversal to the current generation because maybe its unethical or something but to later generations its completely normal and a person's morality is sometimes shaped by it.



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dabbler
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22:19:03 Dec 20 2009
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moralis.. How do you receive the fixtation people have with serial killers? You touched on the thread topic, by mentioning public hanging, in the west, people would wager on the effciency of the gallows. Their would often be a privite 'auction for the Rope.



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bloodmother12208
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00:13:37 Dec 21 2009
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Mortalis, I'm sorry, but you seem demented.

Since when is murder and stealing acceptable? I believe in killing someone to save you or someone's life out of self-defense, but you make it seem like that it's okay to act like an out right animal and slaughter someone for mere sh*ts and giggles.

I guess people are fascinated because they want to know what dangers and monsters lurk around them, to prepare and protect themselves from someone similar who means them harm.

people who buy a murderers memrobilia, usually idolizes the person. Which is more of an obsession than a fascination..............



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dabbler
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01:27:20 Dec 21 2009
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I once asked a Murder Fan to name one victim of a serial killer, he went with the most obvious name.. Sharon Tate, however this guy had an extensive Trivia memory of Killers, including the names of Judges who sat on their cases.

blood mother, and VB put their finger on a distinction, some have an intrest in Criminal Behavior.. Psycological Florensics.. yet the fasination with Killer, like all the fan mail that Richard Ramerez gets. What do people get out of that?

Is it comparable to people watching a Tiger in the Zoo? Are they hoping to get a gem of personal connection with a Psyco Path?



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Kglitterous
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03:42:39 Dec 21 2009
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We are all killers.
Murder is just socially unacceptable forms of killing.
People that are fascinated with murders are simply expressing an admiration for free thinking, combined with the will to achieve. They are accomplished people. Unfortunately, many murders are commited by stupid people... these are not admired, generaly. The smart ones, that weigh consequences, and choose to do it anyway, are admirable, in a way.

I do however think it is less admirable than intelligent people that can achieve goals without the use of Murder.

I have no real desire to emulate most killers, but a few reolutionaries (such as Ernesto Guevera) I can admire.



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Cartomancer
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12:20:56 Dec 21 2009
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I created a SciFi group a few months ago "Fava beans and a nice Chianti". Some people are under the misconception that we are 'fans' of serial killers- but that's not true. I am intrigued by the human mind, intrigue and fascination don't always equate to positive things. Some people devote their lives to criminal psychology- someone has to.

It's natural to be curious and determined to find out why people are wired the way they are- I would never go as far as to pad the pockets of a killer.

I don't think murder is something just anyone can do and that we don't do it just because we'll get in trouble if we do. We're far more evolved than that. And to think it's something we're all born to do- well... I believe that takes the ownership and true evil from those true killing human monsters out there. I don't think they are acting on what's natural for everyone. If you find it is acceptable... I am of the opinion that you are one scary individual that needs the government tracing every little thing you do so we can protected from your lack of morals and regard for human life. And the government did ask me to say that, nor did it brainwash me.



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cadrewolf
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20:24:37 Dec 22 2009
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These are artifacts of people who live in history and well known is all, just memoriablia, like women trying to marry murders so they will have some claim to fame



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dabbler
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22:35:59 Dec 22 2009
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Fame? or Noterity by prozy? An intresting post Cadre, a nudge in topic indeed.



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danzig1330
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22:50:08 Dec 22 2009
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I have been interested in reading true crimes stories for years. I find them interesting because I try to imagine how someone could do such horrible acts. I don't see how anyone could be enthralled with the actually act or those that commit them, but trying to figure out the why is quite fascinating.



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dabbler
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22:52:32 Dec 22 2009
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I like Ann Rule, her preoccupation with Murders actually lead to Profile Protocal for Investigating serial Killer, though serial killers are a fading crimnal with tech catching them quicker.



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danzig1330
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23:01:44 Dec 22 2009
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I have her book The Stranger Beside Me about Ted Bundy in my bookcase. It was the first Ann Rule book I read. She does a good job presenting a non-biased creation of the facts.
The first true crime book I read was Helter Skelter by Vincent Bugliosi about Charles Manson and his followers.



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Aronoch
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23:46:49 Dec 22 2009
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It's the macabre in us all. We deep down wan to emulate these figures but society keeps the normal people ad bay and from comedown's actions.
But deep down wouldn't you like to kill your boss
or the guy that cut you off, but the part of our brain that says don't do that. Since the PEP scan they been able to identify those areas in the brain that these individuals dont 'have working and are trying to identify juvenile before they commit a columbine of situation like that



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dabbler
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00:05:17 Dec 23 2009
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Intresting Aron, did you know Anne Rule actually worked with Bundy at a Tele-counseling center? he would walk her to her car, she was not his type though.

One of the first True Crime Books I read Was Helter Skelter too. Manson In His Own Words, by Noal Emerson
is rather insightful, Noal did time with Manson in his younger years.

The people that really trip me out is the Ladies that
swoon over Richard Rameriz..


thankfully there is a law on the books that a Serial Killer, or Murder, cannot profit from their crimes, though there are indirect ways they get Commissary, and such.



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TheFireWithin
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01:23:07 Dec 23 2009
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Honestly, I find serial killers interesting because of the way they do things.
Most aren't scatter shot and ineffective like gangs and spur of the moment killers.
These people actually live two or more lives. They can be your best friend and America's most wanted for 20 years before they are found out.
I like reading about why they thought they had to do what they did and the way they did it.



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dabbler
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05:18:16 Dec 23 2009
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I am follow cases involving cunning arc type killers as well, It is the people that obviously are involved for varieous reasons, most common to shock "normal" people, or to make other people uncomfortable to some degree. Such individuals are often blunt, and tactless in mentioning such topics. Ghoulish grandstanding if you would. We all have a morbid sliver, it is to what degree we exercise that sliver that seperates us from individuals that are .. well creepy insecure social despots.

A sensable Murder Fan sticks to audiences with shared intrest, or shares with curious company.

seeking Noterity by association to serial Killers?

Not to sure on that one..

I know people who would have you believe they lived down the street from addresses associated with Murder Sprees.. I question how they expect an individual to receive such declarations..



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dabbler
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05:19:04 Dec 23 2009
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I mean motive for mentioning such alledged info.



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Lethargy
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05:48:26 Dec 23 2009
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I have to say that I find it very interesting reading and studying Murders/Crimes. I wouldnt say I am over board but it is a very interesting topic. To delve into the mind, see what drove them to committing the crime.



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dabbler
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08:32:33 Dec 23 2009
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One thing Anne Rule addresses is the Phenomenal things that build up to the crime/crimes. along with how
brazen some Murders are.

How seemingly oblivious those around the Predator were to odd behaviour, not that odd behaviour by itself indicates a Psycopathic tendancy, but consistant implusive behaviour.



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deathnitegrl
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10:55:08 Dec 24 2009
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I like the psychology behind it I won't like the fascination of seeing a dead body or the killing per se. I don't fear dead bodies, but it is different from being necrophiliac.

Once I heard about a man making an advert about wanting to eat an alive human body. One man responded to it and it really happned and it was shown on a video.

I even think that some, in reality have the desire to kill or to be killed, even as a sexual pleasure, that's why the fascination.



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dabbler
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02:04:18 Dec 25 2009
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I have heard of that. The guy got a leanant sentance too. They wrote up a contract, and everything. I don't think he was charged outright with murder though, some odd charge, thanks for bring that up.



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Isis101
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23:56:50 Dec 27 2009
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"i find murder to be acceptable because its natural,to kill is in almost every living creature,its only because of the law that its become a unacceptable and a crime".


Er...okay.

For one, you seem to confuse 'murder' with 'killing'...Other animal, humans, etc kill to eat, protect themselves, etc. It is more of a survival mechanism. And some animals don't 'murder' at all, as they are herbivores.
Two - Most humans have some sort of moral guideline to keep them from being pyscho killers; if murder was truly acceptable, then I'd assume that none of us would be here today. It would have been 'acceptable' for us to kill each other off ages ago. Most humans have some sort of moral guideline to keep them from being pyscho killers..and the will to live is strong.



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TwistedRain
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08:47:41 Dec 28 2009
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actually i didn't confuse killing with murder i just couldn't be bothered to proper type everything in.

and its those moral guidelines that is causing overpopulation this world.
to kill is in all of us, why deny that? why fight against it? this is what happens when humanity takes control,almost everything natural disappears.



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Lethargy
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12:41:29 Dec 28 2009
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yes killing is natural, for the right reasons. Animals and people kill for food, not for fun. Anyone who says they are fine with murdering will probably think twice if it was them on the receiving end.

I for one could kill for the right reason and that reason alone. Yet I do have a fascination with murder, I love reading crime books etc but I am not into murdering. Just because I read about it doesnt make me a bad person.



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dabbler
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13:30:38 Dec 28 2009
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Morlalist.. please address the thread topic.

You oviously have a glorified view of murder.

Perhaps you can share your views on people who commit murder.

I wonder if you are just fronting an image though, seeking noterity.



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TwistedRain
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13:55:52 Dec 28 2009
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no that just a bonus,as for muderers well there is always the zodiac and jack the ripper and others i always look out for the more interesting ones and hopefully they won't be caught.



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TwistedRain
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13:57:18 Dec 28 2009
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and as for murder fans,i have heard they always sen letters to them or marry them or even emulate them. (copycat killers)



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dabbler
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15:31:05 Dec 28 2009
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You strike me as a ghoulish type, I bet people that know you are taken aback by you, just as you planned it.



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TwistedRain
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15:39:43 Dec 28 2009
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heh i'm more than ghoulish pal.

i'm actually looking for a zodiac watch for sentimental value or just a reminder of a great serial killer.



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dabbler
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15:49:20 Dec 28 2009
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You really got the skript down. Thank you for expanding on your early post.

i am not disappointed with this thread.

Have you personally known a murder victim?

I am being sincer, perhaps blunt, but sincer.





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TwistedRain
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15:55:31 Dec 28 2009
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i'm not sure i have come across many people thats died but i suppose it could happen.

now jack the ripper was a great serial killer as well,they never caught him,though there were plenty of suspects.
5 victims if i recall.



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dabbler
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16:02:24 Dec 28 2009
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Have you ever known someone who commited murder?



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TwistedRain
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16:08:01 Dec 28 2009
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actually i just remembered, someone i knew did get murdered,stabbed to death.

i'm not sure about knowing a person who has committed murder.



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NyteShade
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17:05:25 Dec 28 2009
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I find this all interesting dabbler you always bring up the good Subjects... and I find Killing without reason wrong


and as far as the minds of a serial killer hmmm does anyone one really knows what makes them snap or what they are thinking as to some here that is a wanna be this or that the answer lies with in you.


saying and doing are to different things I really don't think they woke up and said today I'm going out on a killing spree just for fun. Isis I always enjoy your answers to things and Dabbler as well

I think one has got to have totally snapped in a area of there life to do Horrible things to another Human

some here give them praise and wish they not be caught

I feel your a Phony and want some to believe your something your not for if it be your mother daughter sister or whomever you would want revenge .

these people didn't deserve to die from another's hand nor be raped nor beaten my thoughts Thanks dabbler for sharing



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TwistedRain
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17:17:56 Dec 28 2009
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i'm no phony and your opinion means nothing.

the motivation behind killings vary from simple revenge to greed,insanity,killing off the undesirables and my favourite,just for the fun of it and for sport.

i think jack the ripper was a kind that killed off the undesirables,though there could be more to it,we will never know now.



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NyteShade
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23:31:23 Dec 28 2009
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they say jack was three not one person they have proof

of this.



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dabbler
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01:17:45 Dec 29 2009
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I examine the intent of a person who seeks noterity through glamorizing Murder, it is consistant.

Often it starts as an Anti Social behaviour, a way to impress ones peers, or to shock others.

Ghouls are often socially inadapt, and avoid seriously examining their personal development, a calousness is developed. I have personally overcome such a mind set.

While Mortalist achieves an adgenda here, relative to the thread, though it would apprear to be a tangent.



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TwistedRain
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10:26:55 Dec 29 2009
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well i am not socially inept and i socialize often when i'm not here or busy,i'm just here(on this site )to be myself and have a good time.


right back to the matter at hand,i did a quick search and found this.


Why the infamous have fans

Neal Hall
Vancouver Sun

Saturday, September 02, 2006

Many people have a morbid curiosity about tragedies, which is why they slow down to look at a traffic accident.

"It's so odd, strange and spectacular that you are drawn to look at it," explains psychologist Stephen Hart, who teaches at Simon Fraser University.

That's normal human curiosity, he said, as is reading about a murder or tragedy in a book or newspaper.

But how do you explain serial killers who get fan mail, including marriage proposals?

There are two theories, Hart said. The first is an identification with a public figure, which, in the case of a serial killer or a high-profile accused killer, involves a celebrity of sorts -- they are infamous, so it's exciting to get a personal letter from such a person.

Hart said some people do it as a sort of defensive identification similar to Stockholm Syndrome, citing the example of people working in concentration camps who associate with the enemy in order to try to feel safe from becoming victims themselves.

"It's fear-motivated," Hart explained. "You are drawn defensively out of fear."

Similarly, it gives the person in the public domain a sense of safety, mastery and control over the accused killer by identifying with someone who is considered dangerous if not behind bars, he said.

Then there is a second type who want to develop an identity of being bad -- they are fans of famous criminals because they want to emulate their behaviour.

Not surprisingly, some women make marriage proposals to criminals such as as Ontario sex killer Paul Bernardo and Los Angeles serial killer Richard Ramirez, who was married while on death row, Hart pointed out.

He added some women often use their sexuality to keep violent offenders calm or happy, which is detailed in a book called Violent Attachments by San Diego forensic psychologist Reid Meloy.

But Hart had difficulty explaining what would motivate a man, using a female pseudonym, to engage an accused serial killer in correspondence.

"It goes beyond normal human curiosity," said the forensic psychologist, who himself has received letters from serial killers such as Clifford Olson but has never replied.

"I don't think there is anything to be gained from it," Hart said of his reason for not corresponding with Olson. "I think it encourages those offenders to be attempting to correspond with people on the outside."

It also gives the killers a sense of grandiosity, which they crave, he added.

Besides, Hart said, convicted killers rarely provide honest insights into their crimes in letters. It's better to do a face-to-face interview so a psychologist can see the person's body language, which may reveal deception being used by a killer.

"Often it's what they don't tell you that's just as important," he said.

A U.S. prison reform activist, Jennifer Furio, corresponded with dozens of serial killers and published a book in 1998 titled The Serial Killer Letters: A Penetrating Look Inside the Minds of Murderers.

Thomas Loudamy, an aspiring journalist living in the San Francisco area, hopes to do the same one day. He said he first began writing to Pickton using a woman's pseudonym, Mya Barnett, because he felt Pickton would be more receptive writing to a single woman.

So far, he said, he has received three letters from Pickton, two of which he provided to The Vancouver Sun.

One of the letters shows that the author felt an affinity to Mya Barnett and chose to respond to her correspondence while ignoring a flood of other letters he claims to have received.

"I have received letters from all over the world and there many I do not write back in reguards [sic] some does not make sence [sic], others testing me over and over again while time goes on to this day," said the letter dated Feb. 26, 2006, which is handwritten in capital letters.

Other letters Loudamy provided to The Sun purportedly written by convicted killers also indicate that they get a lot of mail.

Pickton is being held in the North Fraser Pretrial Centre, which holds prisoners waiting for trial.

Bruce Bannerman, spokesperson for the B.C. Corrections Branch, said every prisoner in provincial facilities is provided postage for up to seven letters per week.

"The intent is so that they can maintain contact with the community and their family," he said.

All mail coming into provincial facilities is opened and searched for contraband, such as drugs, said Bannerman. "We do know that persons on the outside can be very inventive in getting illicit substances, such as drugs, trying to send it in through the mail," he said.

But incoming and outgoing mail is not read by corrections staff, he said, unless staff have received legal permission to do so because of criminal concerns about a certain prisoner.

Bannerman said there is no specific pen-pal program for B.C. prisoners, and that the amount of mail received by prisoners varies.

nhall@png.canwest.com

Mail bonding

Excerpts from letters written by Canadian killers, provided to The Sun by California collector Thomas Loudamy:

Clifford Olson

Excerpt from a handwritten letter dated July 11, 2006:

n "OK. Some of what I do here. Im an artist. I draw them and type in my personal poems and send them to close friends of mine . . . Im into the playstation games here. I just watched all the World cup Soccer games ever one of them live on T.V. I just watched the Wimbledon Tennis . . . I never miss the American IDOL shows . . . I watch a lot of movies also."

History: Clifford Olson, Canada's most notorious serial killer, terrorized the Lower Mainland in 1980 and 1981 when he killed 11 young people. He was sentenced to life in 1982 after pleading guilty to 11 counts of first-degree murder.

Robert (Bob) Arthurson

Excerpt from a handwritten letter postmarked July 26, 2006:

n "So my photo is with this letter. I hope I don't chase you away after you see what I look like. I am not that good-looking, but make up for it in other way's kindness sense of humor that sort of thing."

History: Arthurson, 49, is serving a life sentence for second-degree murder in the 1994 abduction and strangling of 13-year-old Sarah Kelly in The Pas, Man. However, at a parole hearing in 2004, during a discussion about pedophilia and his previous criminal history, Arthurson claimed to have up to 16 additional victims that the police didn't know about.

Allan Legere

Excerpt from a typed letter dated April 19, 2006:

"Theres no reason for me to be inside. THe way some people portray me on websites, etc and who DON'T know me at all, most never saw or met me,not even in my home town, you would think I had 3 heads, when in reality, I am more intelligent than the lot of them, its just that I didnt always use my IQ."

History: Dubbed the "Monster of Miramichi," Legere is in prison for life for five murders, including a 1989 killing spree in the Miramichi region of New Brunswick in which he raped, tortured and killed three women and beat to death a Catholic priest.



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Majique
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I am interested in crime stories, but more so in the victims getting justice.

I hate the fact that the murder is remembered more than the victim.

Killing for the fun of it or for the desire to take someone's life is sick and wrong in my books.

I think serial killer fans are just as demented and twisted as the killers themselves.



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dabbler
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Taking it up a notch Mortalist. thats the ticket, thanks for the article.



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Lethargy
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jack the Ripper, now there is a Murder who intrigues a lot of ppl. They could never really say who he was. That is one story I love keeping tabs on. It always have a new twist in it for a murder spree that happened so long ago.



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TwistedRain
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well here is the wiki for him.


Jack the Ripper is a pseudonym given to an unidentified serial killer active in the largely impoverished districts in and around Whitechapel, London, in late 1888. The name originated in a letter by someone claiming to be the murderer that was disseminated in the media. The letter is widely considered to be a hoax, and may have been written by a journalist in a deliberate attempt to heighten interest in the story.
Attacks ascribed to the Ripper typically involve women prostitutes whose throats were cut prior to abdominal mutilations. The removal of internal organs from at least three of the victims led to proposals that their killer possessed anatomical or surgical knowledge. Rumours that the murders were connected intensified in September and October 1888, and media outlets and Scotland Yard received a series of extremely disturbing letters from a writer or writers purporting to be the murderer. One letter, received by George Lusk, of the Whitechapel Vigilance Committee, included half of a preserved human kidney, supposedly from one of the victims. Mainly because of the extraordinarily brutal character of the murders, and because of media treatment of the events, the public came increasingly to believe in a single serial killer, Jack the Ripper. Extensive newspaper coverage bestowed widespread and enduring international notoriety on the Ripper. The murders most often attributed to the Ripper occurred in the latter half of 1888, although a longer series of brutal killings in Whitechapel persisted at least until 1891. The investigation was unable to connect the later killings conclusively to the murders of 1888, but the legend of Jack the Ripper solidified.
The term "ripperology" was coined to describe the study and analysis of the Ripper cases. As the murders were never solved, the legends surrounding them became a combination of genuine historical research, folklore, and pseudohistory. There are over one hundred theories about the Ripper's identity, and the murders have inspired multiple works of fiction.

Background

In the mid 19th century, England experienced an influx of Irish immigrants, who swelled the populations of England's major cities, including the East End of London. From 1882, Jewish refugees from eastern Europe and Tsarist Russia moved into the same area.[1] London's East End, and the civil parish of Whitechapel became increasingly overcrowded, work and housing conditions worsened, and a massive economic underclass developed.[2] Robbery, violence and alcohol dependency were commonplace, and the endemic poverty drove many women to prostitution. In October 1888, the London Metropolitan Police estimated that there were 1200 prostitutes and about 62 brothels in Whitechapel.[3] The economic problems were accompanied by a steady rise in social tensions. Between 1886 and 1889, frequent demonstrations, such as that of 13 November 1887, led to police intervention and further public unrest.[4] Racism, crime, social disturbance, and real deprivation fed public perceptions that Whitechapel was a notorious den of immorality.[5] In 1888, such perceptions were strengthened when a series of vicious and grotesque murders attributed to "Jack the Ripper" received unprecedented coverage in the media.[6]
[edit]Murders



The sites of the first seven Whitechapel murders – Osborn Street (centre right), George Yard (centre left), Hanbury Street (top), Buck's Row (far right), Berner Street (bottom right), Mitre Square (bottom left), and Dorset Street (middle left).
Main article: Whitechapel murders
The large number of horrific attacks against women in the East End during this era adds uncertainty to how many victims were killed by the same person.[7] Eleven separate murders, stretching from 3 April 1888 to 13 February 1891, were included in a London Metropolitan Police Service investigation, and were known collectively in the police docket as the "Whitechapel murders".[8][9] Opinions vary as to whether these murders should be linked to the same culprit or not, but five of the eleven Whitechapel murders, known as the "canonical five", are widely believed to be the work of the Ripper.[10] Most experts point to deep throat slashes, abdominal and genital-area mutilation, removal of internal organs, and progressive facial mutilations as the distinctive features of Jack the Ripper's modus operandi.[11]
The first two cases in the Whitechapel murders file, those of Emma Elizabeth Smith and Martha Tabram, are non-canonical. Smith was robbed and sexually assaulted on Osborn Street, Whitechapel, on 3 April 1888. A blunt object was inserted into her vagina, which ruptured her peritoneum. She developed peritonitis, and died the following day at London Hospital.[12] She said that she had been attacked by two or three men, one of whom was a teenager.[13] Although this attack was linked to the later murders by the press,[14] it was almost certainly gang violence unrelated to the Ripper.[8][15][16]
Tabram was killed on 7 August 1888; she had suffered 39 stab wounds. The savagery of the murder, the lack of obvious motive, and the closeness of the location (George Yard, Whitechapel) and date to those of the later Ripper murders led police to link them.[17] However, the attack differs from the canonical ones in that Tabram was stabbed rather than slashed at the throat and abdomen. Many experts today do not connect it with the later murders because of the difference in the wound pattern.[18]
[edit]Canonical five
The canonical five Ripper victims are Mary Ann Nichols, Annie Chapman, Elizabeth Stride, Catherine Eddowes and Mary Jane Kelly. Nichols' body was discovered at about 3:40 a.m. on Friday 31 August 1888 in Buck's Row (now Durward Street), Whitechapel. The throat was severed deeply by two cuts, and the lower part of the abdomen was partly ripped open by a deep, jagged wound. Several other incisions on the abdomen were caused by the same knife.[19]
Chapman's body was discovered at about 6 a.m. on Saturday 8 September 1888 near a doorway in the back yard of 29 Hanbury Street, Spitalfields. As in the case of Mary Ann Nichols, the throat was severed by two cuts.[20] The abdomen was slashed entirely open, and it was later discovered that the uterus had been removed.[21] At the inquest, one witness described seeing Chapman with a dark-haired man of "shabby-genteel" appearance at about 5:30 a.m.[22]
Stride and Eddowes were killed on Sunday 30 September 1888. Stride's body was discovered at about 1 a.m., in Dutfield's Yard, off Berner Street (now Henriques Street) in Whitechapel. The cause of death was one clear-cut incision which severed the main artery on the left side of the neck. Uncertainty about whether Stride's murder should be attributed to the Ripper, or whether he was interrupted during the attack, stems from the absence of mutilations to the abdomen.[23] Witnesses who thought they saw Stride with a man earlier that night gave differing descriptions: some said her companion was fair, others dark; some said he was shabbily-dressed, others well-dressed.[24] Eddowes' body was found in Mitre Square, in the City of London, three-quarters of an hour after Stride's. The throat was severed, and the abdomen was ripped open by a long, deep, jagged wound. The left kidney and the major part of the uterus had been removed. A local man, Joseph Lawende, had passed through the square shortly before the murder with two friends, and he described seeing a fair-haired man of shabby appearance with a woman who may have been Eddowes.[25] His companions, however, were unable to confirm his description.[25] Eddowes' and Stride's murders were later called the "double event".[26] Part of Eddowes' bloodied apron was found at the entrance to a tenement in Goulston Street, Whitechapel. Some writing on the wall above the apron piece, which became known as the Goulston Street graffito, seemed to implicate a Jew or Jews, but it was unclear whether the graffito was written by the murderer as he dropped the apron piece, or merely incidental.[27] Police Commissioner Charles Warren feared the graffito might spark antisemitic riots, and ordered it washed away before dawn.[28]


Official police photograph of Mary Kelly's murder scene in 13 Miller's Court.
Kelly's gruesomely mutilated body was discovered lying on the bed in the single room where she lived at 13 Miller's Court, off Dorset Street, Spitalfields, shortly after 10:45 a.m. on Friday 9 November 1888. The throat had been severed down to the spine, and the abdomen virtually emptied of its organs. The heart was missing.
The canonical five murders were perpetrated at night, on or close to a weekend, and either at the end of a month or a week or so after.[29] The mutilations became increasingly severe as the series of murders proceeded, except for that of Stride, whose attacker may have been interrupted.[30] Nichols was not missing any organs; Chapman's uterus was taken; Eddowes had her uterus and a kidney removed and her face mutilated; Kelly's body was eviscerated and her face hacked away, though only her heart was missing from the crime scene.
Historically, the belief that these five crimes were committed by the same man derives from contemporary documents that link them together to the exclusion of others.[31] In 1894, Sir Melville Macnaghten, Assistant Chief Constable of the Metropolitan Police Service and Head of the Criminal Investigation Department (CID), wrote a report that stated: "the Whitechapel murderer had 5 victims—& 5 victims only".[32] Similarly, the canonical five victims were linked together in a letter written by the police surgeon Thomas Bond to Robert Anderson, head of the London CID, on 10 November 1888.[33] While the police evidently treated the five murders as a single case, authors Stewart P. Evans and Donald Rumbelow argue that the canonical five is a "Ripper myth" and that while three cases (Nichols, Chapman, and Eddowes) can be definitely linked, there is less certainty over Stride and Kelly, and less again over Tabram.[34] Dr Percy Clark, assistant to the examining pathologist George Bagster Phillips, linked only three of the murders and thought the others were perpetrated by "weak-minded individual[s] ... induced to emulate the crime".[35] Macnaghten did not join the police force until the year after the murders, and his memorandum contains serious factual errors about possible suspects.[36] Some researchers have posited that the series may not have been the work of a single murderer at all, but of an unknown larger number of killers acting independently.[37] Conversely, others suppose that the six murders between Tabram and Kelly were the work of a single killer.[11]



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SinginGhost88
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17:01:32 Dec 29 2009
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If killing is so natural and acceptable in your world Mortalis, then I suppose it would be fair to say that when someone you care about and love, if there even is someone, were to be killed it would be perfectly alright in your eyes??? That person's murder was just satisfying a natural compulsion.

I believe that we all may have a violent/angry streak in us, but we as humans do not NEED to kill. We are human beings for a reason, we have a thought process and a sense of right and wrong because we are a developed intelligent species.
Murder is a violent, unnecessary act. Individuals that kill for personal pleasure, or to feel an emotion that they cannot feel otherwise are not 'normal' or natural.



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TwistedRain
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17:08:19 Dec 29 2009
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no there is no one i care about,and several people in my family and friends have died or been murdered and i don't care,shit happens.



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Mobius
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18:28:38 Dec 29 2009
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Often it seems to me that those who are big fans of murderers are clueless idiots who have never really lost much.

There isn't glamour in being murdered. If you've ever been slashed open with a knife, you'd know it isn't fun.

I can understand being fascinated by the twisted mind of the individual but not finding them cool or interesting.

I try to figure out why a woman would strangle an expecting mother to death and cut an 8 month fetus out of her womb to keep as her own... But I don't think she's cool. I'm definitely not a fan.

In light of this discussion, the movie "Natural Born Killers" comes to mind. The film perfectly depicts the media storm that whips up around murderers and how there are fans who view it as cool, intense, and even sexy.



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deathnitegrl
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18:36:57 Dec 29 2009
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In fact it really happens.

In images' group there is a discussion about, if the murderer is looking for attention.

I say yes because just loook how the media portrays them?

It portrays them like heroes and they receive fan letters of admiration.

We live in a society full of morals, yet many are plain sociopaths.

I also think that some people would like to kill but they don't so they see the killer as their idol.

Such things disgust me.



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dabbler
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01:24:50 Dec 30 2009
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Anti social people project ghoulish behaviour to repel society, or to intimadate, often to compansate a lack of
Social etiqutte. This thread has really developed, thank you all.



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xTigressx
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04:15:08 Dec 30 2009
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Some ppl really get effected by murders. You read it how murders get fan mail and marriage invites. ppl just get hooked and some are taken for a ride.



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Kglitterous
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I find a lot of these posts amusing. Especially the ones which distinguish between killing and murder.

All people should realize that if Justice was never tempered with mercy; the world would not be able to progress. We'd all be dead for our transgressions.

Forgiveness is more important than Justice. Judge not, lest Ye be judged, and all that.

I am reminded of when I was in a car accident. I was stopped at a red light and a guy rear ended me ,,, he threw me through the intersection and totalled both cars. I could have been mad, I could have gotten insurance money for injuries... but why. It was not easy to forgive, I still am not sure that I have... but at least I didn't go to the iunsurance company to claim something which I could survive without... out of a sense of injustice.

Just because society condones insurance doesn't mean I have to agree with this form of retributive justice.

I feel insurance companies are as wrong as death sentences and war, and murder... humans, and their societies, should be above these things by now.

Murder is just an extension of not forgiving... it is a person who did not forgive some percieved crime against them and esculated nonforgiveness to vengence.

IMO



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dabbler
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13:58:13 Dec 31 2009
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A question Mortalist,

I will tie this into the thread.

What is your opinion, perspective relating to serial pedophiles, and rapist?

to the thread, why would people marvel at Serial Killers, and bank robbers but not Serial rapist?



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TwistedRain
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14:10:36 Dec 31 2009
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i prefer the works and art of killing than raping,though any human suffering can be enough for me and as for peadophiles,i find them weak and pathetic.its easy to kill and scare children and also i find it weird how they can find children desirable and lust for them.
all these things are apart of this world,people try so hard to fight it but as long there is people there will always be crime.
raping is usually about power and so is killing sometimes.



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dabbler
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14:39:53 Dec 31 2009
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Thank you.

You do have bounderies then.

Even in prisons Child rapist get the lowest rung.

There is a shame factor involved, and anyone void of
inhibition would not be outspoken about admiration for
a pedophile.

Though a person could state that sex is an urge, and people have cited that in Pioneer days a girl could be married at 15.. however what is assumed (incorrectly) is that the husband would consumate the marrage immidiatly.. not so.. they would settle house for a few years, then get ready for births.



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coolleyhou
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I have an interest in famous unsolved murders, reading about them, trying to make personal, if not ridiculous guesses at who they might be based on the available information-the most famous being, of course, Jack the Ripper. I'm sure its not the murders themselves that interest me, but like any subject of unsolved controversy, I'm intrigued (and I hope I'm not exhibiting latent signs of homocidal tendancies here). Other famous cases are the Trunk murders of the 30's-supposedly stumped Eliot Ness and haunted him to the grave-the Zodiac, the killer who's exploits were made into the movie The Town That Dreaded Sundown, and countless others; I'm sure you could come up with many yourself. At any rate, I think everyone here has touched on Dabbler's questions in one way or another. Its as difficult if not impossible to understand the psyche of the individual who swoons after the killer-as in the case of Ramirez and his many female fans-and the killer himself (it would be interesting to see how one of these groupies felt at Ramirezs' mercy in some dark alley). I myself would have absolutely no interest in having a souvenir from someone as current as say, Ted Bundy...but I don't know, it might be cool to have something of Jack the Rippers'.



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danzig1330
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00:49:47 Jan 01 2010
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I don't see where serial killers are better then pedophiles. They both take something which can never be given back. Just because many serial killers kill the so called undesirable element of society that doesn't make it right. Even the "undesirable" have family and friends that care for them.



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Isis101
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03:19:15 Jan 01 2010
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murder: The unlawful, usually premeditated killing of one human being by another

kill: to put to death; deprive of life.

Similar, but different things...I could go squirrel huntin' and kill a squirrel for my dinner; I can murder the asshat who took a shot at me yesterday in revenge.



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dabbler
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Thanks Isis, and danzig.

When a serial killer, such as Rameriz raped his elderly vistims before , and presumable after killing them, people that .. "admire".. him seem to gloss over that. I think it may have something to do with the same reasoning people own poisonous pets.

How close to the Caged animal can they get?

Watching to see if the "Animal" jumps at their confining bars.



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TwistedRain
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08:46:47 Jan 01 2010
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Danzig's post.

"I don't see where serial killers are better then pedophiles. They both take something which can never be given back. Just because many serial killers kill the so called undesirable element of society that doesn't make it right. Even the "undesirable" have family and friends that care for them."

only some serial killers kill the waste of society,others do it because they hear voices,for the thrill of it,for the fun and evil of it and sport.

and also there is the organised serial killer,this serial is highly intelligent and cleans up after himself and usually has a cooling off period between murders.

the disorganised usually have poor intelligence and just leave the bodies where they are.



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danzig1330
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21:31:17 Jan 03 2010
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So serial killers that kill because they hear voices or enjoy it is a rational reason for being allowed to kill or admired for doing so? I don't think so.
There are rational reasons to kill.....self defense, in defense of others, in war, etc. There are no rational reason to commit murder.



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dabbler
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21:33:31 Jan 03 2010
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Moralist, could you clarify your post, I am curious as well, to what you are aiming for.



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Kglitterous
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04:05:20 Jan 04 2010
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So.... Isis,

what you are saying is that I can kill the mailman, cook him and eat him like he was my shopping delivery, and that is just fine?

I happen to like the Idea; and the only reason I would not kill for my meal is that there are too many toxins in human flesh to make humans edible.

I quite agree that killing for food is about the only reason (for killing) I agree with. All other forms of killing ar emurder. Including mosquitoes and killing goldfish (as pets.)



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LuciferChylde
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09:24:17 Jan 04 2010
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Having just read all of the posts that I found here on the subject, there is something missing. It was touched upon briefly by one individual that I can recall. And it is in regards to the government not being responsible for social morals. This statement is totally innaccurate.
If you go back far enough, there was a time when there was no law or social order to speak of. This fact alone would indicate that they are, both moral and legal constraints to the populous, a purely hierarcical developement by which the few can control the many. Over time and for various reasons, some fall away, and new come in to replace them. The same can be said for most if not all religious orders, most notably the catholic church during the early days of its' formation.
As to the thread, killing and murder are in fact a natural part of the order of things. If they did not occur, this planet would have been over run and destroyed long before now. People who murder quite often do so, because they feel slighted in some way. Whether it be from childhood or adulthood. Others kill for sport, fun, or out of some chemical imbalance in the brain. As it pertains to pedophiles, go back to ancient greek or roman culture, the so called people that began the societal movement, and this behavior was not only accepted, but often glorified, as was incest.
As for the people who have a desire to communicate with and / or develop relationships with serial killers and the like. Through interviews that I have seen, and articles I have read, these are often people that generally have very low self esteem, or are generally made to feel outcast in some manner by society, long before their involvement with the killer.
Whether or not I condone any of this behavior is simply irrellevent. However, I will say, it is every beings right on this planet to live his, her, or its' life however they deem fit. If this falls short of the current legal or social moral order of the time, then it's their choice to weigh the risk. Right, wrong, or indifferent, it is their right as a sentient being on this planet to make those choices for themselves should they deem them neccessary.

Love the thread by the way.



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deathnitegrl
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19:07:25 Jan 04 2010
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But what if someone feels something is wrong not because of the law, not because of religion, not because they were taught so, but because they really feel so?



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dabbler
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19:14:24 Jan 04 2010
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As in fanaticism?

Or Delussional Idealist?

What motivates a Murder varies, what sets them off, can be partial determined by the meditation of the Murder, Spree Killer vs Serial Killer.

Spree Killers are often triggered by an event or series of events.

Serial Killers are often sport killers. or idealistically motivated. Bundy, and Kemper had a set victim type.





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LuciferChylde
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20:08:22 Jan 04 2010
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deathnitegrl

If you take an individual out of society completely, permit them no reaering beyond the point of simple survival from the time they are born, then there is no percieved idea of right and wrong. Noone simply is born believing thar something is right or wrong, the environment in which they grow up dictates, for the most part, what their ideals will ultimately be. Some may eventually research on their own and change their mind about a particular belief, but it seldom results in a comlpete change in fundamental ideals.
There have been several cases throughout history where children, from a very young age, have been left to fend entirely for themselves. Whether it be in a wooded countryside area, or the impoverished back alleys of a metropolis, the end result has always been the same. They grow to adulthood without the social conditioning placed upon the rest of us. The concepts of right, wrong, love, and hate, are of their own formation through perception of how things are in their world.
These ideals, or concepts of humanity as percieved by the masses, make no sense to them. It is not until put through years, or even decades of social reconditioning that their viewpoints may change.
So again I say, both ones legal and moral ideals of right and wrong in this world, are the product of whatever concepts are put forth by the governing masses of the time, and not something inherent in their nature.



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dabbler
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20:22:20 Jan 04 2010
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Excelant follow thru LC

What a Serial Killer Lacks in Development, could well be reasoned to allow them to act on impulses that "normal" people are inhibited (by conditioning) from acting on.



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MidnightRedemptiom
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21:05:57 Jan 04 2010
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I'll admit freely that I've never been into murder or any violent acts as I view them as morally aprehensible. Only only time I ever watch a documentry regarding a murder or serial murders is to try to understand their thinking, the motivation as I am always trying to understand why do people do it? Of all the species of animal on this planet and supposedly the most intelligent, why is it that humans are the only animal to kill each other for no good reason?



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dabbler
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01:22:23 Jan 05 2010
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One of the reasons I studied serial Killers, and Murders was to avoid being one of those people the media interviews after a Serial Killer was caught that lived next door to them, or they associated with, the one that says, "I never noticed anything about "Hank"..."

I noticed early the distinct differnence in Journal approaches to serial killers.. the Fasinaction Tabloid approach (to get Horrorified responses) and Investigative Journalism, that looked into the background of the individual, and florensics, they tended present more of the victims story as well.

this thread has really developed well. Thanks to all who posted. I have picked up this topic after abondoning it after I lost touch with a social science student I know.



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Kglitterous
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06:35:01 Jan 05 2010
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Nicely Said LC... but aren't Tarzan/Mowgli children generally untrainable at all, not just in human mores, but in anything more complex than very basic skills. Killing is a very basic skill... it is easily understood. Government is not, neither is religion... it is a serious disability, if you can't understand abstract thought.
Murderers tend to understand the ramifications of their thoughts... and ... because of this, act.

Their comprehension of the ramification may not be similar to how we view them to be (under similar circumatances) but to them the murder is justified, and logical.

Murder, ultimately, is whether a death generally does not benifit you. Killing is when it (in a limited snd shortsighted sense) does.



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LuciferChylde
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10:59:37 Jan 05 2010
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Thank you Kglitterous

My initial point was to inform Deathnitegrl that there is no inherent right and wrong, and that all concepts of social, moral, and legal ideals, and constraints are solely put forward by the governing bodies in power at that time. That none of those things are inherent in human nature.
To your question. While in the earliest of cases, the reintegration of those children into the social means of the time was seriously limited, and led only to them being able to handle the most limited of tasks, the more recent cases have made leaps and bounds in being able to facilitate the the developement of reasoning skills, and learning developement. Obviously, the longer ones lives in the tarzan / mowgli situations, the longer said process is going to take. Hence why I said years or even decades.
As to the part of your response about murderers being able to understand the ramifications of their actions, while the children in my example cannot, that in no way refutes my point that social morals, ethics, ideals, and legal constraints, are completely a human contrivance. And not an ingrained human trait. The portion of your post that speaks to murder not benefitting the individual, while killing (at least in a shortsighted) sense does. Let's assume for a moment that most of the killing these tarzan / mowgli people do is for food and survival. It is not, however out of the realm of proability that they could feel slighted by another, and kill them just the same. They could see something shiny, and fall in love with it so to speak, and kill the owner in order to possess the object. There is no benefit to them possessing the object, only that they find it to be attractive. They can't eat it, or wear it, it is merely something they desired to have.
And I shall reitterate my original statement to the forum topic. Do I believe that it is ok for people to murder, kill, benefit financially from said action, or for other people to purchase their work? I believe it is every humans right to judge what is right and proper for themselves, and not to have it force fed to them by the powers that be. Truthfully, it is irrellevant, it is likely that there will always be someone else determining what others dutifully accept to be correct, no matter the penalty to their previous freedoms. And I shall pity them, not for their current circumstance, but for the fact that they have lost the capacity to think, feel, and live for themselves.



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deathnitegrl
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18:25:17 Jan 13 2010
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Good points LC but I still think that a person can feel that something is wrong, just as a gut feeling, instinct.



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MeanDreams
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15:35:36 Jan 17 2010
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Hello Everyone

Whew boy, where to begin. I think I will start with a statement. "Do what thout will shall be the whole of the law...but harm no one." Even in a world as twisted as this one has become the leader of the "Church of Satan, Lavey, would not condone harming another. There is a problem in saying that there should be no thoughts, guidelines, laws, or anything else that would stand in a person's way to do what they feel is right for them. Indiscriminate killing is usually not the norm though some people have elevated the concept to normal status. Murder is never acceptable. Twist the words in any way you want but I know of no society where it is normal behaviour. Even during times of war indiscriminate killing and wholesale murder is dealt with harshly. Look at how they deal with the nazi regime (not Germanns, I said Nazi). To this day, sixty-four years later, they are still hunting for those who actively participated in wholesale human slaughter.
Serial Killers are looked at today with fascination or downright morbid curiosity. They have gone against societies rules to live life as they see fit and that is to release others of their lives. People with this mindset are predators plain and simple. Their reasons for following nihilistic behaviour are strictly their own. Some are mentally imbalanced though we can use our same argument that what constitutes mental imbalance and who is to be the judge of that. Well don't you worry about that, take this little pill and enjoy your new life in the assylum Some are animalistic and have wanted to act on these urges for years. Well congratulations, you finally made it. What would you like for your last meal. Then others have been maligned by society so they lash back and make a noise everyone can hear. Well hear this...electricity will now course through your body until you are dead in accordance to the laws of society. May whatever deity of your choice (ah, we must stay politically correct) have mercy on your soul. Still others were nerdy little wimps that were continually picked on until...SNAP! I'll show them who's the wimpy nerd. Five murders later...Just take a deep breath, it'll be quicker that way.
I think I've covered quite a few of the reasons that people murder. I left one out because it's a difficult one to define, the revenge killing. I'll leave you to come up with a judgement on that one. In case you didn't notice there is one common thread that ties it all together...Society. How that ever got to be a dirty word is beyond me (it's not even four letters). I think society is to be blamed for all the world's problems but I fel it unjust. If we didn't have basic guidelines to live by this world would be in a world of "dooky" (I'm being nice) with Chaos, tyranny, and anarchism ruling the day. There are maybe five percent of us that would love for that to be (remember the predators) the case but thankfully it is not. Eventually even they would not like it because once all the sheep are gone, the wolves turn on each other. Nobody said the rules had to be so strict that we squeek when we walk but guidelines are needed to balance the insanity of everyday life (see, I'm not picking on, nor am I judging what is imbalance imbalance, we all suffer it from time-to-time).
Now, before we go any further I'd like to address the notion of killing. I do think there is a distinction between killers and murderers. I think the idea of misplaced anger leading to someone's untimely demise is different than murder though the line between the two can be a very fine one depending on how the evidence is viewed. Killing for food I have no problem with whatsoever.
Another thing that was brought up is how animals don't murder and that's not exactly accurate. A male Lion will kill cubs that are not part of his pride so that only his offspring will grow up. There is video evidence to support this. Chimpanzees are well known for their murderous rages upon one another. One more example would be the Cuckoo Bird. It lays it's eggs in other birds nests (which already have eggs in them. As the babies grow the Cuckoos toss the other birds babies from the nest until they are all that is left. There are lots of other examples but those are some very clear ones.
Oh, and one other thing...The idea of keeping some of the most venomous animals in the world as pets. OOO, teacher, teacher, call on me. Oh, I know this one.
When I'm not thinking, breathing, and eating horror, sci-fi, or fantasy I work with our reptilian friends. I have kept a few venomous animals over the years but my fascination for them wore off many years ago. I do, however, know several people that collectively keep some of the most dangerous animals on the face of the earth. The reasons vary but strangely mirror the reasons of the "murderer." For some of them it is a feeling of domination over something dangerous (then why not collect serial killers), The idea of doing something that very few people do, some to make a noise (I keep venomous snakes), others just for the fascination of such deadly creatures (you know what I'm referring to), and some because they are conducting something positive in the way of venom research and it's implications in modern medicine.
So that's all I've got. I cetainly have enjoyed the thread and the different philosophies brought forward. I think it is sad that no longer is there any hot and heavy threads involving those boring "Heroes." There was a time (and not long ago) when heroes were the order of the day. Now they are looked at almost with disdain. I'll bet anyone that is saved or helped by a hero would sing a different tune. Heroes still dominate the movies, but sadly, that's where they stay. I write about heroes, and they kick major Butt.
I understand a person's right to the pursuit of happiness, but I think murder is where I draw the line Still...if one eats what they kill, maybe reconsideration is in order (we lose more mailmen that way).
Moral of the story: I think more would-be Murderers and future serial killers take up venomous (read as poisonous) animal keeping instead.
Have a Great Day!!!










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slaughterme
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21:22:16 Jan 17 2010
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I'm very drawn to and curious about criminals, criminal acts and acts that are not considered to be socially acceptable...but thats where it ends. I do not actually condone what I consider to be moral wrongs.
And ghoulish behaviuor...can be acceptable. One may tell jokes and be curious, but it is not acceptable to actually act...



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Isis101
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23:17:03 Jan 17 2010
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Great post, Creature1. I think that the majority of us here agree with your assessments.
I would feel bad for the dangerous animals placed in serial killer homes though.



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RomaMarieNightwing
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15:33:16 Jan 19 2010
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I agree highly with Creature1.
It is a disturbing and sickening feeling to know some humans do idolize murderers.
Buying memorabilia to remember them by is even worse.

The stranger aspect is once they fault to just a deed, and judgement is passed unto them the same, death penalty that is, how stricking that they then beg and plead to be pardoned.
They did not pardon their victims.



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Lethargy
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15:52:10 Jan 19 2010
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I put this to you all.

We are not alone in this. The whole animal world is the same. I watch a documentary the other day where elephants went on a murder rampage. They were attacking rhinos and humans for no reason that could be seen. It was happening all around the world.

In the end it was found that the elephants suffered a terrible event in their pass which they took out on others when they grew up. A revenge sort of thing.

All animals it is kill or be killed, it is mainly for food yet there are times when it is just down right murder. There have been attacks on humans by lions, panthers, elephants, gorillas and the list goes on and on.

A lot of these attacks have been put done to the fact that humans have been aggressive and done horrible things to the animals, and they have attacked out of revenge.

We just have to live with the fact that we live in a dangerous world, whether it be by humans or animals there will always be murder and it boils down to the fact that right from the beginning of time the strongest will live on the weak will perish.



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TwistedRain
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10:21:55 Jan 21 2010
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humans are animals,i hate it when people think they are above and try to seperate themselves from them.

this world is a kill or be killed world whether we like(i do) or not,well something has to lower the population and killing is the best answer to that, well war and genocide is.

face it people,no matter how much you hate killers,they will always be here with you.no law on earth will stop killing,its nature and i don't see any point or reason in fighting it.
but i suppose its that fighting that lowers the population so go ahead and try to stop it.
and as for admiring murderers,what makes you better,you worship vampires,the evil kind.
i have read the post of you people,you dislike any vampire thats good and absolutely love the dark ones to the point of obsession.
sure they are fiction but still,you lot like them better because they kill and are predators and i agree,they are better because thats what a vampire would be,vicious and a predator like a serial killer.



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MarmaladeChainsaw
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11:12:36 Jan 21 2010
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Killing, 'murder', is a natural human act. Animals do it - and no matter how much we want to cover ourselves in our blanket of 'holier than thou' garbage, the raw, fleshy and honest truth always break through.

And I hold serial killers in high regard. I respect them because they took the step everyone else was joking about.

Favourites? Bundy, Wournos, Ripper and Dahmer ;)



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MarmaladeChainsaw
MarmaladeChainsaw

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11:15:13 Jan 21 2010
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oh, an afterthought - if i could have a piece of serial killer memoribilia - the bundy mobile, straight up... though i think that's a little obsolete now ;)

failing that, his crowbar ;)



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TwistedRain
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11:16:40 Jan 21 2010
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i would like jack's knives or the zodiac watch.



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MarmaladeChainsaw
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19:41:26 Jan 23 2010
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or one of the empty, carved-out chest cavities that dahmer masterbated in to....




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MeanDreams
MeanDreams

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05:57:01 Jan 24 2010
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It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye.
Have a Great Weekend!!!
John (aka, the "Creature")


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DeMonic
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03:47:07 Jan 25 2010
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I am intreged with serial killers, why? I am not really sure, its not like I want to be (maybe I do but I dont know it) i think its more wanting to understand what makes them tick....oh on , thats the first sign of becoming serial killer, wanting to know what makes things tick. Maybe its because I fear them, Im not sure if I do, I think I would though if I was to run into one whom was out of my blood. I think its quite a normal morbid fascination, very common.



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danzig1330
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04:17:30 Feb 06 2010
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I don't idolize vampires of any sort. I appreciate vampire books and movies. I realize it is entertainment, the actors are playing a part. There are such a thing as real killers. Their victims end up dead, they aren't playing a part. That is a big difference.
With that said I finished a newer Ann Rule book last night. It was very interesting. One killer was only fifteen. He came from a very weathly home with not a care in the world. Yet he still raped and killed one woman tried to attack another and possibly killed a second. That is why I read true crime books, to try and understand what could make someone do such horrible things to another person.



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RomaMarieNightwing
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19:50:51 Mar 25 2010
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I've actually known three murders. first two were just desperate kids that grew up lost of morals, care and family love. Sad.

The second set is rather infamous, Erica & Ben Sifrit, the couple from Hollidaysburg Pa. That killed/mutilated that couple down in Ocean City Maryland.
I agree with the detective, mix psychotic with drugs & alcohol and you end up with a Lethal disillusioned pair of serial Killers.

Sad part is it could have been prevented and wasn't!
Police here believe they were tied to numerous crimes and murders but not enough evidence to prosecute them, until Ocean City.



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dabbler
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20:25:50 Mar 25 2010
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danzig,

Thats one thing common about true crime, the glaring indicators are always
Brought to light afterwards.

I just read, Mom Said Kill, and the obvious was ingnored by several people, the mother coached her children, and a few friends to blungion and stab a man to death.



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cadrewolf
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20:53:57 Mar 25 2010
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Humanity has left this world, violence has become supreme power in the streets.



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dabbler
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21:13:43 Mar 25 2010
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Cadre,

That is a radical sweeping generalization, perhaps it could use some supporting statistics.



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cadrewolf
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21:18:11 Mar 25 2010
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Statics look in the paper or in the news the wide spread shooting and death tolls that linger over every county. Is violence not the answer to modern mainstream problems.

Violence of drugs, money and power in offices, have we forgot we are all the same, love thy neighbor and respect of elders, do we see this anymore.

Murder fans have come out of the wood work since before Manson, trying to get their names in the record books or whatever. Collectible cards have even come out with worlds greatest murders. come on sociability has become lost in the fascination of the murder and the reasoning behind it.



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TwistedRain
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12:09:59 Mar 26 2010
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heh it became lost with facination of vampires as well,there is many groups/types that have affected society,from the cool punk to the pathetic goths who stole black and now people calls those who wear black (simply because those like the shade and are not goths or emos) goths or emos and treat them as such.

right back on topic,i see no problem with respecting and liking the work of a serial killer,humanity is a stupid race who thinks nice people are normal and killers are broken unwanted trash that needs to be locked up,i say Fucking wrong,all faces of humanity are normal and NATURAL which means they are supposed to exist i don't think anyone has the right to say otherwise,if you fear them, run and if you hate them,fight back.
most people are killed because they are weak and rarely fight back or at least try and fail.its survival of the fittest.



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