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The Black Death ravaged Europe between 1349 to 1351 as it spread from the East to west following the trading routes and killing off one third of the population which was approx 20 million people and no matter what your social status no one was spared. It struck the young, old, rich, poor, godly and lay members of society without any regard. Some people believe that this disease was the main trigger for the decline in believers and the loss of faith in religion, There were notable increases in violence and debauchery and as the more learned priests had died and the less educated lay members took their place which led to a drop in the standard of sermons etc

Do you think this one great apocalyptic event led to the society that exists in the world today with the numerous religions, a re-birth in the ancient belief system or would our current society have evolved into what it is today anyway?

Religion did nothing to save the masses, and would reason that there was implications that the Plague was "Gods Wrath".

If the church had not quelsed early medical studies as unessecary ( Because they had prayer for the sick).

A fine example how empty faith was to the masses.

I am going to read up on the developments after the black death.

It could go either way.
During the Black Death, many people actually clung to religion - a lot towards 'fringe' beliefs. The violent flagellant group that came out of Germany, claiming to beat themselves for God's forgiveness attracted thousands of followers. Many people believed that the blood from these guys was holy, and could produce miracles.
So - in times of strife, some will seek religion, and some will turn away from it.

This is the first I've heard of a drop off in religion during this period. Can you cite a source?

Also, I've always thought of the dark ages - middle ages as violent and debauched with or w/o the plague. Their views on sex in particular were much more brazen than what has been crystallized in the modern Christian faith. Perhaps I'm wrong.

Thirdly, my dates may be off but isn't the time period you're referring to also the beginning of the inquisition?

Although the plague, caused by the bacillus Yersinia pestis, most likely was present in Europe as early as the 6th century A.D. (Wiechmann and Grupe 2005), it was not primarily pneumonic until the early 14th century.

It was the fear of the pneumonic plague that allowed people to believe the church when they claimed the disease was caused by a dissention of faith, rather than by other natural sources (Cantor 2001). This implies that the Church's influence was still present during the plague years


Because little was known about the origins of diseases in the Middle Ages, people were told that illnesses were a divine punishment from God for their sins. Religious groups, such as the Muslims and Jews were seen for centuries as scapegoats for these diseases because their beliefs and actions allowed them to be viewed as sinners against God. It then comes as no great surprise, that when philosophers of the early 1300’s predicted a "great plague" as an eschatological sign of the end of the world, and people started falling ill from the Black Death, the public believed that this disease was attributed to the sin and corruptions of the non Catholics within their community (Williman 1982).

http://entomology.montana.edu/historybug/YersiniaEssays/Doherty.htm

A factor that made the plague so devistating was clustered housing. Cities, with horrid sanitation (dump your chamber pots out the window, into the ally out back, and hope it rains soon)

Strong handed Government was also levying heavy
on wage earners, and mercants, plenty of starving or near staring people, while the wealthy gorged.

I am still searching for a reference to the times medical discovery as well.

Blood Mother, very solid post.

Lets not overlook the more recent AIDS epadidemic, and the way that fundimentalist crusaded against Homo sexuals, and Drug Users.

i dont think the current rise in alternative belief systems and the rebirth of old ones was really influenced by the black death, nor do i think the reformation with its splintering of xtianity was from that.
if anything i suspect that more people gravitated strongly towards the church so that god wouldnt kill them too!
~W~

I do not think that the Black Death/Plague, had much to do with how we evolved in our religious beliefs. I mean alot of people died during the plague and well it was just that a Black Death that swept across the world.

maybe it did the oppisite and had people becoem stronger in a faith or belief. Alot of it has to do with what country your in as to how people have or have not faith. I mean it is universal yet, there are so many different factors as to how one believes or does not believe that I do not think that it would be any different as to an outcome of having faith or not. just my 2 cents worth is all.

Bloodmother loved your post. ;)

I don't think that the advent of the bubonic plague really had as much of an affect on the prevalence of religion so much as the advent of the printing press about a century later.

Personally I don't feel that this event had anything to do with the demise in the belief system in society. It is also inevitable that there would have been a break down in society due to the loss of so many people from all walks of life.

Natures way of culling the population..

Yes, I agree with that to a certain extent, though it may be crudely put. Nature has a way of keeping the balance. FOr every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. That's how I see it.. Pardon my ignorance. Faith is in you. No one tells you what or who to believe in. Once someone dictates, what you have inside you is lost.. till by chance and luck you find it. Society would have evolved.. differently, I do not know. But it would have evolved. Wars would still have been waged. And stuff like poverty, AIDS and such would still have been present. So yeap..

Lol it may be crudely put, as nature crudely culls.. : )

And we should remember that when science and technology moves forward, religion make take a back seat to many aspects of life.

Former Mysteries that people defaulted to "mystic", or devine have been discovered to be nothing more then illusions created by physics.

The history of the church involves using animated statue to awe the devoted.

By interpeting naturally occuring events as signs from mystic, or divine sources.

The fear factor was inagral in maintaining followers, and gaining converts. Not just fear gods, or be cast out from glory, but fear not being a convert, because you are subject to being scapegoated for communal mishaps.

Who was it that said, New Orleans was struck by Katrina to punish Rosy O' Donnal?

i read that bush caused katrina but never read rosie o donnel did. was she causing global warming as well?
LOL
~W~

I do not think that a lack of the "sermon on the mount" back in the day was the cause of faith loss. it is human nature to go to a certain "higher source" if they feel that they cannot cope with life around them. Therefore, preaching to the masses is just irritating and the people would have reached out to their own gods rather then being nagged at by some raving madman on a soap box.

What the church had going for it was a convient explaination/intpretation for disturbing issues.. and an Oh so convient counter for those issues.

As discovereries where made, and people became aware of such discoveries, those that felt cohersed by fear reconsicdered religions as a lower priority. of course this threatened the churches pocket book, so they sermonized the existing followers the ideal that it was non-believers that caused a disharmony in humankind. Basically turning devotees into bigots.

''Ring around the rosy, pockets full of posy, ashes, ashes, we all fall down.'' Every child learns this song with no relation to where it came from. -smiles- It's truth is not a cutesy song for children to sing, for children to laugh about. No dainty rhymes or sentimental love verses for the Black Death, sensational yet ace epoch.

Ring around the Rosy. That refers to the bruising that appeared around the open sores. A pocket full of Posy. Supposedly Posy was a mixture of herbs and spices that kept the sickness away. Ashes, Ashes. Victims turned a sickly grey color before. We all fall Down! Six feet under the stars.

The Black Death is not the Plague. The truth is that they are two very different things. No one really knows what the cause of the Black Death is so Lord help us if it should happen, it makes me ponder.

Imagine if it were to happen again? We certaintly won't know how to prepare for it and its effects in the past were already devastating. Don't forget now that we have a much bigger population, and more ways to travel and communicate with others. How would we even know we have been in contact with someone suffering from Black Death? The fact that there might be several forms of Black Death is only not comforting.

We would have to isolate all the infected and had to lock the sick, dying and dead in a separate place till everyone pretty much terminated. This of course, would be against morals as we're locking up living people to die. -ponders- Ah, yes if I could bring up the scene from the show Monty Python & the Holy Grail where the sick man was brought to the body collector while protesting ''I'm not dead yet!''

I personally found this lecture & discussion topic, bleak as well as very fascinating. Looking through all the options that have been said on this topic. The Black Death and the plague being separate things was the most provoking bit of discovery I learnt. -smiles- I love the song of death....Why would they sing about such a poison?

The Origin of the song actually is queried, some say it predates the Great Plague. I wrote about it many years ago when I was at school. The first outbreak came to England in the 1300's

It is a rhyme which we used to sing at Primary School which now my children sing.
The pouches of herbs were to keep bad smells away because it was thought the disease was transmitted by horrid smells.

The term "Ashes Ashes" refers to the cremation of the dead bodies! Yes the falling down is death!
As with other rhymes there are many versions of this song!

Here is a link you may find of interest

http://www.william-shakespeare.info/bubonic-black-plague-elizabethan-era.htm

There was or is a History Channel documentary on the Black Death, infact if you type that into youtube search you can watch the whole documentary in a few parts.

I came across something very interesting. You may read it if you want.

http://www.williamkwolfrum.com/2007/08/12/to-save-america-we-need-the-black-death/

Thanks people, I will look at this as I enjoy reading about this sort of thing.

Er, well actually there have been many mass breakouts of the 'Black Death', infact it is still around today in some countries, only we now have better medical technology. I don't think that one breakout of the disease really changed much by way of religion, people were alot more religious then, and simply blamed the pestilence on people of other faiths. Probably alot of people thought that god was punishing them for something, but people did think completely differently then to how we do now, thankfully.

The thoughts of an upcoming plague is really the only end-time prediction that scares me, All the other predictions of polar-shift, return of Jesus, a black hole in our solar-system, or the return of an alien race dont sound as menacing as a plague.

The the plague prediction that scares me the most is an illness that turns humans into flesh-eating zombies has to be the worst, Like the whole human race is changed into rabid-like animals has to be the worst, If you watch movies like Resident Evil, or I am Legend really freak me out.

I did a lot of study on this in recent years, and I have to tell you that The Black Death was used by The Church as a weapon of faith. They used this to show "God's Wrath" falling upon the faithless and as from of his punishment of sinners. It worked very well as a tool for conversion.

Our social system has evolved into what it is over the last 100 years. With the advent of real science and medicine people began to question many of the things the Church preached as fact. People have minds, and demand the right to question.

They did.

What you see around you today is a society raised to question and demand answers.

The Black Death had nothing to do with religion. However, I believe that the Black Death have something to do with divine retribution.

You can read a fairly in depth history of The Black Death at the following link:
http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/plague.htm