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I am interested in knowing what others think about this.

One of the paranormal groups I work with has 8 people in it and 6 of those claim to be a psychic/medium. It is always a battle of the psychics while ghost hunting. And to be perfectly honest, I think they are completely full of shit.

I have been up in the old Arkansas TB Sanatorium with them and I have seen one of them start to bounce from side to side and then she starts moving lower to the ground and then she starts moving her hand, and then she asks everyone if they feel bugs crawling on them, and they don't know what the hell she is talking about.

Okay...the things I have witnessed by these self-proclaimed psychi mediums is just too fake. I mean if one is feeling bugs, why aren't they all? Why do they forget the monthly meetings or have to be reminded of it. If they are psychic they would know ahead of time when the meeting is right?

I can be such an asshole when it comes to stuff like this, but unfortunately these idiots are the only ones I have had a chance to work with. I am not opposed to the idea of psychic mediums being real, I just have yet to see something I can believe.

Another example of these people...We were in the old tb sanatorium and one of them starts saying, "I feel the presence of a little girl. She's wearing a white dress."

OK, no shit. Back in the day, there were thousands of children that went through the doors of the sanatorium. And there were surely some that came in with white dresses on. Back in the 30's and 40's little white dresses were common for little girls, or maybe they were tlaking about the Hospital gown? Ehhh? Those were white.

Another instance...White noise studies. We have sat up there on certain floors with a couple of devices for putting out white noise. I am a big time skeptic and the frequency was completely rolling and repeating the same exact high pitched noise which sounded like "yes"at intervals of about 25 seconds apart. They didn't pick up on that. Instead they asked a billion questions and heard the sound and thought it was ghosts telling them yes. After a while it was noticeable and apparent that this was not any entity at all, but the psychic mediums in the group said it was, so it just was.

Complete rubbish!

I am sorry but there has got to be some sort of tangible proof that psychic mediums are not fake. I have yet to see it.

"One of the paranormal groups I work with has 8 people in it and 6 of those claim to be a psychic/medium. It is always a battle of the psychics while ghost hunting. And to be perfectly honest, I think they are completely full of shit."


I am sorry I couldn't resist

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYU_CPKNr1Q

Maybe you should look into some government tested psychics. lol

I believe a lot of people just do it for the attention, and some of these so-called "mediums" never say anything in more detail as one would LIKE to get from them and really, I believe that's how you know. People who are very real in their abilities don't exactly come out and broadcast themselves but they probably still use their skills to help others whenever they can, most whenever they are drawn to certain cases, such as the lady from the show Medium for example.

Taken from her website:
•Allison DuBois refers to herself as a medium and profiler. She doesn't use the term 'psychic' because of the negative connotation associated with it.

Even though she is having a show wrapped around her life, she uses those skills to help people, not ghost-hunting.

Whenever it comes to people who call themselves "sensitives", I have my viewpoint about that too.
I'll explain. A cat, dog or an animal with accute senses are able to pick up on strange energies, whereas a normal person would not. However there are people that have this ability to sense things, but does that make them a true sensitive? No. We are born with built in systems that let us know when something doesn't feel right. Whenever energies feel heavier in a place etc. Animal and mankind are no different in that area.
Not to mention our intuitions, etc. It is just part of us. That really doesn't make us "special cases".

Now if a psychic or medium can actually verify what they see, names they pick up, something SHOWN to them by said intelligent source, without any former knowledges of who they are working on case wise, now THAT would be a green flag to me.

this country has been researching psychics for decades, we did it in the cold war and hitler did it in WW2

If after witnessing anyone who claims to by psychic you honestly feel they are not, then your probably right.

It seems to me that the "realness" of a reading/demonstration can be felt by the individual and is personal to them.

I've had experience with fakes and with people I believe are telling the truth.

Sadly there are heaps out there that are fakes. However there are some that are real or what they actual see/say are that close it is unbelievable. But because of all the fakes it is hard for us to believe.

ill attempt to repost what i had posted before (and was apparently deleted).

i have known of some that seemed to have some pretty amazing abilities. i have read of some people that the govt has done experiments with that seem pretty interesting.

but i also have seen penn and teller tear up some fakes, and just watching the mentalist shows what an intelligent person with some skills and a good sense of observation can do.

i wont rule out psychics, and think some do have such powers...but i think that those that can are more rare.

the people you describe waving their hands around and such...thats just embarrassing.

another good "fake psychic" show is psych. if you havent seen it, you should. its quite funny.

~W~

I'm sorry if anyone is offended, but...

Yeah. To put it lightly and blunt.. I have NEVER, in almost 28 years, ever met a psychic person or medium or whatever in person. I think that probably about 80% of the people that say they are psychic are lying and are fakes and that they ruin it for the people that actually are. Take Sylvia Brown for example. She's a scam artist. Every time I see her on Montell I just have to laugh. I can't believe people believe that stuff. The way people like her make money is just a guessing game. One episode, the person in the audience was like, nope, don't know what you're talking about LMAO! It was great, she turned red and everything as if she had been totally busted! They throw out a random fact that could be true for ANYBODY and build off of that. I can do it too. Anyone with half a brain can do it. However, I think it's wrong and thanks for opening up this thread.

I have had positive experiences from mediums in the UK but if I put a percentage on the amount I have spoken too and the ones who have given outstanding evidence of their gifts it must be around 2%

When you are dealing with this type of subject then the burden of proof is an individual thing. If someone gave you categoric evidence then you would believe in it and yet if you are given a pile of horse then you will not. The tough part come with the fact that you will nearly always be given a pile of horse, which is why Sexy has had 28yrs without a shred of evidence.

Its the same for genuine mediums too they have to put up with the bad press that comes from frauds because to battle that particular press would take a lifetime of work and energy.

The insinuation that if one was a medium or psychic then one would be able to see all, know all is pure fantasy and if you thought about it for a moment you would see why

The shows Paranormal State and Most Haunted do in fact use Psychic Mediums that are very real. They say things that they in fact (and proven) do not know.


There was a spin off of Paranormal State called Psychic Kids. These kids are between 14-17 that are Psychic Medium. They go to different places and say things that they would never know because it was way before their time.

I do believe in psychics but I don't know if i believe the people in tv shows are actually psychic

Personally I think you're quibbling over human tendancies. Everyone wants to bignote themselves, it's just what people do. You get a bunch of people together, whether it be for a knitting circle, a psychic convention, or a drinking competition and there always has to be some oneupmanship happening.

Personally, I both know and know of psychics and mediums, so yes, they're real. They're not necessarily the ones who advertise themselves as such, however.

I also think that there's a difference between being psychic and having psychic abilities, and I would venture a guess that most people who claim to "be" psychic in actuality only have some psychic abilities. Psychic abilities, whether mediumship or others, don't manifest all the time, they can be turned off or just plain not work occasionally. Sometimes they only rarely work.

As to the forgetting things - well psychics/mediums/whatever are still human, with human fallibilities. Just because you may occasionally pick up a telemetric reading off something, doesn't mean you suddenly have an eidetic memory. So yes, even psychics forget things.

Drakontion has a point

there will always be fakes mixed with the real...its human nature to try to cash in whenever one gets a chance.

~W~

what people invest into such notions is what amazes me, after being a volunteer at a Spiritualist Center, I have seen how shallow, and with almost contempt the so called mediums treat their marks.

Any mediums that doesn't milk marks is like Rudolph the Red Nosed Rain Deer.

Any entertainment psychic lets the audience imagine what they would, I have seen card readers who profess no Mystic abilities, read better (and more applicably) then a professed mystical medium.

So it comes down to practicality, who really cares if someone spouts obscure facts about a persons life, what significance comes from that.

Watching John Edward telling people what they want to hear.. blah.

People are replacing grieving with coddling flattery.

Why bother talking to a family member when they are alive? We can skip off to the Medium, and have them flatter us from beyond.

When psychics, or spiritualist cross the line, and declare themselves a substitute for professional, or social connection then you will see desperate people shell out a fortune to be flattered.

I have spent money and still do going to watch the mediums, I love them squirming when their conjurers act goes horribly wrong.

Although ugly it’s very good cheap entertainment. The old ladies love them and you do get some nice tea and biscuits!

It’s very easy to do, I can do it, you could do it, and I know that I am certainly not a medium, far from it...perhaps a trickster ^^

Cold reading has been around for many years.

The Barnum effect comes to mind with mediums and Psychics.

I always thought that it would be good to go test a psychic by going to one and going in with like a false name and just seeing if they can tell i am lying to them

Ok I haven't read through the replies, but I will in a minute... I believe that there are those out there that CLAIM to see things just to get attention, and then those that really do see things...
Now as far as the psychics go there are people that have very strong feelings that tend to be very accurate... There are also those that have dreams that come true...
So yes, I do believe that some are telling the truth and they really see something...

people claim many things, like the psychics on tv who claim the see the dead just to get money. I real psychic wouldn't use a gift like that for personal gain.

Well stated Ban

My concern (after leaving the Center) was how much people invest in the could-be, and might-be.

As Houdini said,

"Why would a person pay 20 dollars ( a lot of money back then), to watch an act that they can see down the block for 1 dollars admission?"

How would one expect a complete stranger to relate regarding a beloved?

Why not take the same money (notice how Spiritualist who claim to be professional services always collect upfront) and round up all the family, or friends that actually knew the person, perhaps even bring a special trinket, because such things initiate social grievance, and fond recollections. People who advertise as Mediums know this , the ethics very.

However when I hear people say, "Well avoid fake mediums, and scam artist.."

Well hypothetically if there is any merit to Spiritualism, then "A truly gifted" medium is fully capable of being unethical.

How vulgar is that?

Arbitrarily denouncing those who exploit people as scam artist, and fakes is feeding the market for unethical practices.

I think many people who go to psychics just want to hear the same kind of things. "you will be prosperous in X" or "your departed X is at peace and loves you very much"

no one wants to hear "your grandma is in hell and suffers horribly every minute of every hour of every day"

Here is an article that I find notable, regarding regulation, and consumer guidelines, and distinctions.
http://divining.suite101.com/article.cfm/why-regulate-psychics

In a way I see it like carnival midway games games, everyone pretty much knows those games can be rigged. It leans in favor of the operator. What crosses the line is
pure hustle joints, when game fees are arbitrarily adjusted, and applied in whats known as "a come on".

example, bushel baskets can be an ice game, you won't win. So the operator puts a proposition out to the mark, (the game is 3 bucks three balls, two in wins) but the hustler says, 5 bucks one ball, and I'll put one in the basket.

Or with Dart Ballons. 2 bucks 3 darts, ill give you one dart for 3 bucks, and up-size the prize. which would appear a reasonable offer, until one notes the ballons are low, and slick with Spray Pam.

When I was a dispatcher for a Troupe up in Eugene Oregons Campus, I watched practical use of card reading, to bring social groups together with new faces.

When I hear Mediums advertise as Clinical Equivalent service, I caution the would be client.

If being astounded by often trivial gleaning, and what appear to be obscure facts about you or a deceased person is so important to you, then fine book an appointment, but make certain the Operator is upfront, and outright with fees, and services.

well until psychic analysis is recognized as a science/pseudoscience then saying you are offering clinical help is false advertising

I think there is a misconception about all of this. These people are human and not all knowing. I was with spiritualists for years. I actually trained to build up my abilities. They only get feelings most of the time or images they have to decipher. You can call a medium a psychic but there is a fine line. If they are a trance medium they may never pick up anything outside of the trance state or they may. I don't agree that Van Praagh is a fake. What I think is that many expect too much from them. They only pick up feelings usually and they cannot be expected to just turn on because someone wants them to. No they wouldn't know necessarily some mundane incident going on. That is fictional psychism. Where I went they believed no psychic was any more than 80 percent accurate at best. They are not machines and sometimes they are wrong. It is deciphering what you see, hear or feel that is the rub. Some have been very accurate. I have been told so many times I am highly psychic but because of what I know of the pitfalls pertaining to inaccuracies I won't read or do anything of that nature other than for myself or my family if they ask me to.

People expect too much. It is just like vampires, the mix up between fiction and reality. It is a natural thing that everyone has to a degree and others much more but you cannot turn it off and on like a spiget. Some things come and go at random. There are different types of psychics...that word isn't one use for all and mediums are a separate thing and there are all types of psychics. There are fakes but just because some people like attention which is usually the case doesn't mean everyone is a fake. This is a pretty uncharted territory even though Duke University and others have done many tests of individuals.

For instance anyone can read tarot. It is a matter of memorizing the meaning of the cards and what they all represent interacting with each other. Someone who is an intuitive can pick up more but it isn't necessary to a good reading. It doesn't require psychic ability just as with Palmistry which I took long ago. It is very hard and very detailed but it is a matter of learning everything and then applying it to what you see. If you are a good psychic then other things are picked up from the voice and from touch most often. It still doesn't make the readings full proof. Nothing ever is that way and if that is what you expect, then you are barking up the wrong tree.

Yeah, you know, someone brought up a good point. You never do hear about a psychic telling a person their loved one is in purgatory or hell. They say, "Oh, they're in heaven! Your grandparents have been re-united, etc." Never anything negative. I want to go to a psychic, WITHOUT a fake name and see if they can pick up on how absolutely poor I am and if I'll ever come into some money so we can move outta our crappy trailer into a nice apartment like we used to have. Of course, without telling them anything about myself with the exception of my name, or asking any questions. I think I'll do that when I get a couple extra bucks. I will journal about my experience lol

I went to a spiritualist church back last year, and the medium there was such a fake his name is craig hamiliton parker, and most of the 'conversation' was with his wife who was sat at the back of the church, agreeing with everything he was 'telling' her, he also does open circles, bt i wasn't allowed to go, because i wouldn't give him any information about my family history etc. That hasn't put me off knowing that there are a 'few' real mediums about, but this craig is defently a fake

I think most Real psychics dont know they are. Visions come to them in dreams,when your mind is open to any and evrything,they get what you call Deja vu frequently. My grandmother would see things in the future all the time and said that we all possess this ability we just dont have the time or patience to tap into it. She taught me to record my dreams and I found that what I was going through at preasent I dreamnt about 2 months ago. If you find time try it ,record the most vived dreams the ones that stick with you even when you wake. And by the way it dosent happen everytime its random its nothing that can not be controlled.

I have attended a Spiritualist Church/Sanctuary since the age of 19, so about 17yrs and I have seen very good mediums and very bad one too.

With regard to paying to be part of the church/santuary all of the places I have been a member of take Voluntary Contributions called Free Will Offerings, in other words you give what you can afford. Most give a £1, some far less and a rare few more than that.

Sometimes, for special events you may have to pay £1 on the door as you go in. This hardly constitutes an upfront fee for services before you get them......we are talking about £1

If your foolish enough to pay £30 for a private telephone reading with Mystic Mouse then you deserve all you get.


The mediums I know in the UK do not, and never would, charge for there services. Period!

LBn,

I see nothing wrong with tithing, bills need to be payed, the article I posted distinguished between Centers, and Shoppes.

The Center (not congregation) I volunteered at was indeed a front for promoting retreats (overpriced packages at that) and seminars (with over priced "work books").

I have read notable articles that indicate that ethical mediums, and psychics are policing themselves.

There will always be those that seek unrealistic services from mediums and psychic, and they will shop around, and be active in their own exploitation to hear what they predetermined themselves, I have seen people politely turned away by mediums that won't cater to, or flatter their client.

I think there are a fair share of shams and real psychics and mediums.

The other problem is that they are interpreting what they are seeing. I think if they just tell the client what they are seeing instead of trying to interpret the images the client may be able to work out the message being sent to them more. Well that is what I think any way.

I believe many people fake it, but it is real, as well.

while I dont claim to be a psychic or medium, I have been able to see and read people with accuracy. I don't do it for money and never have. I used to try and do readings, however I quit. The reason I quit doing it is because I tried to tell the people what I saw or felt. To know me is to know I don't sugar coat anything, I tell people like it is and am very down to earth. If there was a bad message that got passed to the person, and so on.

I do believe that there are real ones out there. I also believe there are way too many scams and hacks out there as well.

TP,

May I ask, what do you feel to be an unreasonable expectation a potential client may have?

there are alot of psychics and mediums in this world that really are full of shit. and most times whem people ask if u experience something like bugs crawling or what not its a power of suggestion and when one person feels it others sometimes do. its how the human brain works. so the ones you work with im sure are full of crap. tho i believe some are real. and the ones that are are very scary. but most are not real. they just claim to be whatever cuz the paranormal sells almost as good as sex

I think most psychics are charlatans but some do actually believe that they have the power to read minds or predict the future. These people I would say are simply very astute. They are people who notice the small things. People who are able to read from your movements and words what you are thinking better than you know yourself. These people in my opinion should break away from using the name of psychic and call themselves psychologists instead.

TP,

May I ask, what do you feel to be an unreasonable expectation a potential client may have?

Dabbler I am assuming you mean me with this question.

well honestly not all but the majority of people seeking those with talents are seeking reassurance, and positive feedback. They honestly aren't ready or don't want to hear whats really going on. Its hard to give someone a reading that is negative when all they want to hear is the good. Expectations should be set on the specific talent being offered.

For example if you are seeking someone who claims to corespond with those who have passed on, an unrealistic expectation is that they will connect with the one person you have picked out in your mind to connect with. The gift is not that accurate all the time. When people come to me for assistance the first thing I tell them is to be prepared for everything including the negative and or absolutely nothing. I dont take money for my abilities.

Another thing is if your seeking guidance, don't go in there telling them your life story. It is all in the wording of the questions for most. Psychology plays a big role. If someone comes to me and is grieving a great deal, I try and help them understand nothing is garunteed and what comes across may not help at all. I don't believe in sugar coating anything even feelings.

To me it is important that the person meeting with the potential client goes over everything including expectations. If a ritual is involved then all aspects of the ritual should be made known. Those seeking don't often understand the danger they may be putting themselves into. Its always best to let everyone be on the same page so to speak.

Thanks TP.

Lavastrom post,

"I think most psychics are charlatans but some do actually believe that they have the power to read minds or predict the future. These people I would say are simply very astute. They are people who notice the small things. People who are able to read from your movements and words what you are thinking better than you know yourself. These people in my opinion should break away from using the name of psychic and call themselves psychologists instead. "

well stated, when I see professed psychic imply that their services are alternatives to clinical services, i cringe.. here we have a potentially unethical person with the potential to create a dependency from a client, and the client has no consumer protection , if a shrink malpractices they have malpractice assurance, and a board review.. the application, and practically of readings, ansd sitting are grossly over played by those who seek to charge as much as they can, and to string along a mark.

Regardless of weather or not the talent is mystical or not, their are unethical practices.

very much a very much unethical people out there. probably more than we know. all the same there are ethical people there too.

Those ethical readers, do not feed the hype.

I am also from the UK and the mediums in the UK DO charge I must state that in my area it’s more like £3 which is still not alot, but as one can imagine after about twenty five to thirty people turning up it’s not a bad sum of money!

On the special events it’s more like 40 to 50 people, sometimes lots more and they tell the congregation that they will have to pay more because the medium or mediums that are coming are special! These are set weekly prices and one is not able to plead poverty...you aint got the cash you aint coming in!! One does not make a voluntary contribution!

As for paranormal programmes using real mediums I would like to see the proof that they are as stated! My country’s very own Derek Acorah was proved to be a fake and he was in Most Haunted for quite a few years.
I met him at the Ram Inn when they were filming there and it was the biggest load of tripe I have ever seen!!

Let’s not forget Randi and his 1,000,000 dollar challenge which ran for 10 years (March 2010) and no one was able to claim it....he’s not the only one offering money for proof there are many others. There is even one in the UK offering £12,000

Lavastorm and Dabs

It’s my belief that they did break away and called it Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP) which is centred on hypnotherapy and psychotherapy. Although I disagree with Bandler and Grinder being called the fathers of NLP because they got there info from Milton Erickson and just gave it a jazzy name!

There are many things one can tell from verbal language a person uses and from how a person holds him or herself..ect Another reason why I hate the internet...a feeling of being blind!

Oh not to take any magic away...oh I am sorry I mean the spirits! lol

As I have opined often here, so I again reiterate:

The only real difference between magicians and psychics is simple: the former freely admit that their entertaining illusions and tricks are just that while the latter try to take claim they have real "powers."

Now whether such psychics are deliberate con artists or simply self-deluded doesn't really matter; in either case they deserve little respect and even less credibility.

For those who disagree (and I know that especially here, that would be the vast majority), I have six words: The Amazing Randi's Million Dollar Challenge.


- Upir'

Well put Upir,

It is often asked, why if Psychics, and mediums are so gifted, then why can they not produce results greater then the Performing Mentalist? Surely a medium could incorporate the practices of Mentalist into their "ethereal communicant".

The undoing of mediums, and psychics is the very thing they desire, popularity, and exposure.

Any magician will tell you that you don't "heap' your act. Variation is the key.

I think they are real but the fakes give them a bad name.

Tahirah,

why would it be 'fakes" that give mediums bad names (bad pr) wouldn't unethical mediums also be a concern?

it seems arbitrary to write off anyone who exploits clients as fake mediums.. fake or "genuine" the exploitation is epidemic.

Both. I used to be a professional psychic on a website and read cards for people around here. There are those that are real and those just out for a buck. Course, those that are real also need to eat, so just because they charge, doesn't mean they are fake. I don't believe they should charge a lot though, so do your homework. But not all are out to cheat you.

Well... all I would say to that is that iit seems to me that were anyone a real psychic, they would have no trouble winning the million-dollar challenge I provided the URL to in my previous entry. For that matter, were I a real psychic I'm sure I would have no trouble finding innumerable ways of making money ... and none of which would require my having to peddle myself out as a psychic to others.

I wonder why not a single self-described psychic ever does this? Were they truly psychic, it would be a no-brainer, now wouldn't it?

self professed mediums are old hat, and even jaded themselves, this becomes obvious as to clients, and they no longer hold the dependency they used to.

Genuine or not, it is reasonable to sincerely ask those professed psychics
/meduims to address the unethical practices, and expect a sincere reply, rather then just the arbitrary denouncement of the individual as a "fraud".

I see more people desperate to make people subscribe to the belief that they are the "real deal', rather than that spirit mediumship is real.

They all lack, as Upir hints at, any significant application.

Excepting the rarest grief medium, yet such mediums are community related.

I warn people that the more claims that a reading is clinical the more red flags should go up.

If a 10 dollar reading turns into a 45 plus dollar reading, one had best consider arranging to pay after the reading..

If it is anyones intent to compare professionl serves to that of mediums, and psychics.. I would directly challenge that one distinctive matter.

Why can't psychics, and mediums bill after readings?

Why are psychics and mediums mubblers when they are reading, and very articulate after a hit is acknowledged?

self professed mediums are old hat, and even jaded themselves, this becomes obvious as to clients, and they no longer hold the dependency they used to.

Genuine or not, it is reasonable to sincerely ask those professed psychics
/meduims to address the unethical practices, and expect a sincere reply, rather then just the arbitrary denouncement of the individual as a "fraud".

I see more people desperate to make people subscribe to the belief that they are the "real deal', rather than that spirit mediumship is real.

They all lack, as Upir hints at, any significant application.

Excepting the rarest grief medium, yet such mediums are community related.

I warn people that the more claims that a reading is clinical the more red flags should go up.

If a 10 dollar reading turns into a 45 plus dollar reading, one had best consider arranging to pay after the reading..

If it is anyones intent to compare professionl serves to that of mediums, and psychics.. I would directly challenge that one distinctive matter.

Why can't psychics, and mediums bill after readings?

Why are psychics and mediums mubblers when they are reading, and very articulate after a hit is acknowledged?

I have never charged for a reading, however I have found that if you tell the negative in the reading and the client doesnt want to hear it then they feel they have the right to not pay because they didnt want to hear what was said. As far as proving themselves that is up to each individual, I have my own opinions and beliefs.

Tiger P,

Thats the distinction, from practical, to applicable.

I have seen a Medium aid people in proper grief (she didn't last long at the center though).

I have seen talented (not gifted)readers perform more convincing then mediums, or psychics.. and bring campus groups together as a catalyst.

Guidance in trivial issues is one thing. Nudging people into problem solving through a third party introduction is reasonable.

But grandstanders are getting desperate, and become very aggressive in their practices. Their are more unethical operators then ethical. Then add to that the Script reading con-artist, that is punting to desperate people, people who where baited by sensationalist. The Ethical readers need to step up, and distingish themselves from the Unethical, and Script reading scam artist.

I have seen some effort in this matter. But the sensationalist blanket anything as "Possible". and worth an "Open mind". As if until you are exploited, you should except it as genuine.

I think that there is a very small group that have psychic abilities, ie more or less empaths. All of the other stuff is FAKE!

Agreed Isis, very few in my experience can really turn up the volume. Apparently the "Spooky friends" really object to cash for questions and the gifted can be blinded...which is very painful for those who have always been able to see.
After all, losing an eye is never a pleasant experience.
However, my own personal belief and experience is one can negotiate financial assistance in times of true need.
However one must plead ones case, using logic justifying and demonstrating same using reverence and ritual.
Be warned, Sometimes/often the answer is an emphatic "No!"

GK - I would think the real warning ought to be to those who feel that "psychic" readings are such a "true need" that "financial assistance" must be sought to pay for it.


- Upir'

Which Upir,

Goes back to perceived necessity.

Desperate people, those who are often anti clinical services are prime flock for such operators.

The issue (for me) lies in how arbitrary Believers in the "gift" are when it comes to owning up to the exploitations epidemic, the arbitrary denouncing anyone who get caught fleecing as a Fake.. Fraud.. Con, as if the don't possess the "genuine gift' at all.

So without a concise Consumer guide Mediums will continue in a downward spiral inevitable placing in perspective the readers that are modest, and free from the aggressive tactics used by unethical individuals (:"gifted", or not )

Source Holy Smoke.org


Does James Van Praagh talk to the Dead?
Nope! Fraud! - Part 3
"Yesterday I had an interesting experience that prompted me to pen the reply below of what I would say to someone who is grieving, quite different from what James Van Praagh would say.

"20/20 came to my home and office, then followed me to Occidental College to film me teaching. They did not care what I was lecturing on (this was just "B roll" footage), but I thought since the show was on James Van Praagh I would ask the students to respond to the question I always get about him: "what's the harm in what he does?" Well, they had plenty to say and had some good ideas, but one woman in the class told her story about how her Dad had died when she was 10 and that she has never gotten over it and that one doesn't really get over such a loss, one just learns to live with it, etc., and that the sort of thing that Van Praagh does is really deceptive and bad, and that it certainly wouldn't make her feel any better about her situation having some stranger tell her that he can talk to her Dad. And she got emotional and had to wipe back her tears; it was a very touching moment.

"So, when I got home I was going to send her an e-mail telling her that I felt bad for her and how tragic it must be to lose her Dad at such a young age and all, when I opened an e-mail from my sister, who reminded me that this was the 12th anniversary of our father dying (April 2, 1986). It was such a peculiar conjuncture of events, that it prompted me to write this student a note about the difference between what Van Praagh would say to her and what I would say to her. She had talked about how she felt bad she didn't get to grow up with a Dad, and that her Dad didn't get to see her play basketball and volleyball or graduate from High School:

It's okay Melissa, your dad is here now. He's telling me he loves you. He says he watches over you. He loves watching you play basketball and volleyball. He saw you graduate. He is with you always. Don't be sad. Don't cry. You will get to see him again. Everything is fine.

"Well, no one knows if this is true, but even if it is, why would your dad talk with this guy you don't even know? Why would he choose to make his appearance at some hotel conference room with hundreds of other people around, or in some television studio? Why doesn't he talk to you instead? You're the one he loves, not this guy getting $40 a seat in a hall with 400 people, who just made two million bucks selling a book filled with this sort of blabber, or gets $200 for private readings. Why do you have to pay someone $200 to talk to your dad? Why? Because it makes you feel better, right? Wrong. This is why I do what I do.

"Here is what I might say to someone who is grieving. In fact, to this student, to my sisters, and to my own daughter should I die before my time, I would say this:

"I'm really sorry this happened to you. It really isn't fair. It isn't fair at all. If I were you I would feel cheated and hurt; I might even be angry that I didn't get more time with my Dad. You have every right to feel bad. If you want to cry, you should. It's okay. It's more than okay. It's human. Very human.

"All loving, caring people grieve when those they love are gone. And all of us, every last one of us, will experience this feeling at some point in our lives. Sometimes we grieve very deeply and for a very long time. Sometimes we get over it and sometimes we do not. Mostly we get on with our lives because there is nothing else we can do. But loving, caring people continue to think about their loved ones no matter how far they have gotten on with their lives, because our lost loved ones continue to live.

"No one knows if they REALLY continue to live in some other place -- I suspect not -- but we do know for sure, with as much certainty as any scientific theory or philosophical argument can muster, that our loved ones continue to live in our memories and in our lives.

"It isn't wrong to feel sad. It is right. Self-evidently right. It means we love and can be loved. It means our loved ones continue to live because we continue to miss them. Tears of sadness are really tears of love. Why shouldn't you cry for your Dad? He's your Dad and you love him. Don't let anyone try to take that away from you. The freedom to grieve and love is one of the fundamentals of being human. To try to take that freedom away on a chimera of feigned hope and promises that cannot be filled, is inhuman.

"Celebrate your love for your Dad in every way you can. That is your right, your freedom, your humanness."

Michael Shermer

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Well....I think for the most part,there not real and just tell you want you want to hear,or go off of actions you display....they try to make it like they know it all,but they just don't 4 the most part.I only had one accurate reading,and I been to a few,the ones who are unreal,try to make it like your dumb or nieve,then ask for the money at the end.They tryto fill there rooms with things,like there doctors of the mind and the know,there more or less a cheap psychiatrist,who battles you and tells you lies.I'm into that,but I feel i'm more physic abilities.It's more entertaining then anything on the most part,but I'm not sure if i'm going to waste my time again,there was only one that i've been to that was accurate.To sum it up,there are ones and could be ones for real,but on the most part there fake,and trust me I believe in all kinds of things.

Upir, that is not what I meant, so let me clarify the point.
Psychics and those with odd abilities are forbidden from cash for questions for obvious reasons. However, under extreme hardship, perhaps a life or death situation the medium may plead their case. Most gifted living folk fear this step as it may incur wrath and as such many truly gifted folk lead very mundane, relatively ordinary poor lives.
This is borne out in gypsy folk law and even in films such as "Drag me to Hell"
For this reason alone the film is in a sense a "Classic". Full marks to Cancers associate for promoting this and other controversial issues within this film.

GK - I'm trying hard to understand given that this latest statement from you seems in contradiction both to your earlier statement, to which I directly replied, as well as to the common knowledge known to us all regarding how psychics make their living.

In your earlier statement you specifically mentioned occasions where the amount of money a psychic charges might require that the client find "financial assistance" so as to pay the psychic.

And whether the amount charged is so high as to require such financial assistance, yet we all know full well that psychics the world over routinely charge money for their services and always have; this is, after all, how professional psychics make a living, is it not?

Yet in the reply above you state: "Psychics and those with odd abilities are forbidden from cash for questions for obvious reasons."

Please explain.


- Upir'

i would have to say that 99%of them are full of it, for something like that to be real it would be extremely rare ie 1 in several billion

Yes, this statement, whilst crude is correct, those with with this ability are not allowed to use it as a get rich quick.
Those that do have other similar skills often very Human skills, ability to read others, empathy etc.
This is not to be confused with others who really have contact with other planes of existence. The complication is whether or not they too are just playing games with lower life forms.
I strongly suspect it is so but am uncertain. A strong theme amongst any intelligent life is the need to keep massive intellect occupied.

Most who title themselves as a Psychic or Medium is a fake.
Real Psychics and Mediums don't like being labelled as such, let alone stating that they are one.

If you are in doubt, put them to the test. If they decline, you'll know immediately. If they shove some lame accuse at you, then they are fake as can be and only seeking attention.

Kill Bill 4U,

Would you agree that among the "genuine mediums/psychics" that there are bound to be unethical "practitioners"?

As in 'gifted' individuals who exploit others?

It seems to me that any medium or psychic who is caught exploiting a person is written off as just a scam artist.

Very few modest readers are taken the reigns on alerting the consumers of such individuals.


It has gotten to the point that one operator toted himself (with two other underlings) as an alternative to the the (Desperately Corrupt Therapy Field) veiled his practice, and used "Intuitive Trance" to "Dx" his patients. Of course many treatments were required, and many readings had to be done.


Where is the line crossed? Has any one here seen a desperate woman drift from shoppe to classified ad hoping to hear something besides.. "You need to have this done.."

LMAO you are funny.... Once I was dragged and by my hair at that, to a psychic medium show in sydney by some American dude who's name escapes me now (wonder why). He was throwing out names like Cosuela and Ramone to a bunch of Aussie's. Now, these names are not common down under. Eventually, he hit a wall of nothing, as no one was responding to him, so now he looks back and forth at all of us and then asks "Does anyone know anyone that has died?". Immediatley everyone's hand flew up into the air. As ridicules as that sounded I was shocked to see so many gulible people fall for it.
Psychic's, I believe in. But no I am yet to meet a medium that's not trying to profit from grief...

A good psychic won't charge a fee~ I believe some are psychic, but I wouldn't pay one. Those are the fakes.

I can pick up on almost any of you here by your pictures. It is a gift I was born with.


LMAO.............I sound like such a psycho!



*Waves at Storm*

Your right because if the truth of real ones ( we will say for argument) would be snatched up and put under a microscope. This is one realm in which i believe is far fetched (My opinion). Sham artists that manipulate people for money, just like any other business out there.

Well you all came here I did not invite you!

If you feel you were told nothing you will be refunded.

This is for VR members.

Apply with your LOGIN only if you feel cheated, no loss.

http://scarlettetarot.com/

Beware this is not a joke for the foolhardy.

Dabs... I think it's called spamming, or is it trolling, or phishing? I get so confused by all the new cyber terms for online advertising.

Of course now I far-better understand GK's continual defense of "supernatural powers" and beliefs. And while he might think that we should all "Beware this is not a joke for the foolhardy," yet I'm thinkin' that, in fact, it is. No, not a joke... but most certainly "for the foolhardy."

If GK has problems with that opinion, he is more than welcome to hex me with as much bad mojo as he believes he has powers to throw at me. ;)


- Upir'

I feel that there are those who have the ability to know things and to be able to talk to the dead as well.. I also know that with everything you have those who do not know these things and use others to get rich quick and scam good people..

I believe that there are people who use more of their brain than the average person, and are therefor more open to supernatural experiences. But I also think that for the most part, they don't glamorize it or make such a hairy deal about it. They want to help, not scam.

I do Believe that Psychics and Mediums are real I have met some in my life and to not believe in something or someone is to say that nothing is real...

I feel that they are very real, it is just sad how many people really are not that scam others for money.

Atrocity,

Is it not reasonable to include actually "gifted" individuals in the scammer category?

I think theres very few psychics, and those are real or known are booked as hell with appointments are cost a shit load. If your getting it for free chances are your being bullshitted. One renowned psychic you can try is Sylvia Brown, I've never been to her but she's SUPPOSEDLY real. She's been put through many tests and if she doesn't have an answer for you she's not afraid to say it. She's SUPPOSEDLY able to communicate with spirits ect. But her appointments are BOOKED, i checked. EXPENSIVE as hell too.

RedQueen -

I don't know as I would call those "more open to supernatural experiences" as using more of their brains.

Seems to me history proves just the exact opposite of this: the more "open" to belief in the supernatural, the more superstitious, backwards and ignorant the society. That is, unless you honestly consider those burning others at the stake during the "Burning Times" or those torturing demon-possessed heretics in the "Holy Inquisitions" to have been more intellectually enlightened than we are today.


- Upir'

There is no validated test results that indicate Sylvia brown is "authentic" she is a hack, who uses guile, and other scandalous practices to mine information, many private eyes have come forth with documentations of here seeking background information on would be clients. she has disgusted audiences beyond belief, her, James van Pragg, and Mark Edward are all losers that bilk people through grief, if not with readings, then with their rehashed glorified devotional pamphlets exaggerated into "books".

I hate sylvia brown she is a very annoying woman, same with John Edward.

I never said she was authentic and do they have valid proof of some real work with her. Theres some government and police records. That was awhile ago though, and like any psychic if they think that have a chance at money there going to jump on it, fake or not, even if they don't have the answers. A psychic on live camera is gonna come with an answer even if its bullshit because of pressure. And maybe it's possible for psychic to lose there touch, it's said she don't have answers more and more each year. But I don't sit up looking up psychics in my spare time, so they don't annoy me. There people, I bet if you had a psychic ability you'd be just like the rest of them, real or not

Psychics are like minsters. Think about, comunicating with the dead, thinking they know where we'll end up. They just have different names to me. Some psychic like Sylvia used to have credit, now there just all competing against each other and if they had the gift there not using it anymore. What happened to the psychics that didnt always have an answer and weren't afraid to say so when the pressure was on.

Every human that I know, was conceived by a woman and a man. So, we, all reside, sometime in the uterus of a woman. How can some people believe that some human got more power then other, when come to a metaphysical phenomenon?. So, my opinion, no, Mediums and Psychics are just pure entertainment, just like wrestling.

I'm sorry but Mediums and Psychics are just entertainers like Markus says, I watched that Most Haunted with Yvette Fielding and Derek Acorah, what a load of crap he is, how come one minute he can see and talk to a ghost and the next he says there's someone else here aswell, why can't he see this other ghost yet he's having a conversation to another, load of crap and these ones you see on the tv have researched the backgrounds on some of the people in the audience as they know they have lost loved ones in that last few weeks, they play with peoples emotions, its wrong and it's false because their deceiving people, they tell them what they want to hear then they take their money.

Its sad really, all i can say with out starting an uproar is this.. Please don't let fakes and wanna-bes stray you away that there are actually real Psychics and Mediums out there in the world, and i honestly hope and wish that they are here and use thirs gifts to help those in need for vital information.. If you wish to know more, you can view my life in my Journals.. Have an awesome day!

"Honestly hop(ing)" that psychics and mediums are real does not cannot substitute for actual evidence that they are. Strength of belief is not strength of evidence.

And, again, were any psychics actually real, the "Amazing Randi's" Million-Dollar Challenge would have been won years and years ago... that is, unless someone is going to try to argue that psychics don't need money just like the rest of us.

I Belive there are truely lots of real ones but there is also alot of fake ones who take people for granted

I would have to agree with Alek...God of Chaos...it seems in reading the responses here pertain to those who've had negative dealings with "gifted" people who take advangtage of those searching for tangibility and offending those with purely logical viewpoints. I care not for winning millions, I am already greatly blessed. My only concern is helping others and I am honored when I am able to intercede in some way that no one else could.

Quite frankly, all this railing against the concept of any psychic and/or spiritual ability of any kind is rather appalling in some sense. Debating who is real and who is not...information is purely information...it's black and white on any page. What you do with it and how that information affects you personally can only do one positive thing...change your perspective in how you see the life you live. Take it or leave it..pay for it or don't...it's still each individuals' personal choice. Whether that choice has positive or negative consequences relies entirely upon the perception of those who choose to believe what they do.

Be blessed always,
Silver