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I think one of the things that most makes me sit and scratch my head are the reasons and ways people try to dismiss the existence of vampyres. The most common arguements go along with "well, they are just folklore," or "there is a reasonable explaination for it". Well most folklore has some basis of truth to it. Lets talk about another famous folklorish creature, the GHOUL. GHOULs, are supposedly creatures who feast on the flesh of the dead. Well a few years back, a famous ghoul was captured preying on people in his town. His name was Jeffery Dahmer. Dahmer stated that he would be overcome with the need to do what he did. Thus showing a hunger that overrides common sense. And he consumed and KEPT for LATER consumption, dead human flesh. So if a ghoul can exist in our modern day world, why not a vampyre?

Eternally yours,

Olwen

Well peoples preconceived notions of vampires ARE incorrect. What people think a vampire is, doesn't exist. Vampires are not what they are in the movies, and people don't know that. Just as a lot of people only know witches to have green skin and pointy hats. Hell I would say vampires didn't exist myself it it wasn't properly explained.

"'there is a reasonable explaination for it'. Well most folklore has some basis of truth to it." yeah...isn't that that same as having a reasonable explaination? just thought I'd point that out, that basis in truth IS having a reasonable explaination...maybe I'm just crazy though...

But the formal definition of a Ghoul is a creature that robs graves and eats corpses.. not someone who picks up guys in bars, kills them and stuffs their bodies in the Kenmore freezer for a snack later....

Cannibalism exists... there are plenty of aboriginal tribes that still practice that. They're not ghouls, they just don't have civil laws against it and I guess with the right preparation, people are tasty... it doesn't mean these people are ghouls.

I do fully agree with birra......though not about the tasty people part, haha ;)

Well, I said I'm guessing people could be tasty.. meat is meat for the most part....

yea until you get...kuru? I believe it is called? it is like mad cow disease in people. Excluding those tribes though, who have developed immunity for the most part. Ok I am done with that lol.

Now...who here believes in zombies?!? LOL

Only if breaded and fried...

Ok, I understand what the original poster is saying, I think... things that are said to be fables or myths stem from actually occurences.. so Ghouls may stem from persons in history that actually did eat dead people... perhaps a starving village digging up the fresh corpses of recent battle?

If western religion and ancient texts have taught me anything, people from ancient times had a strange way of interpreting what they experienced... due to a lack of understanding, or fear.. whatever. What they say was might not be what truly was...

Good point, but if that's what the person who started the thread meant, it is slightly vague. I mean everything has a basis, BUT it's like a fish story though....every time the fish gets bigger and bigger. It is probably so far from what it was intended to be that it doesnt even fit anymore and has become something different, it happens.

No, actually that is what I was saying... everything has a basis - but left to the interpretation of those that experienced it, that basis can get skewd.. like, the fish getting bigger and bigger.

But we trust the word of people from thousands of years ago who had a fraction of the understanding of the world around them that we have today...

Two thousand years ago, Jesus claimed to be the son of god and eventually millions followed...

....if I claimed to be the son of god today, I'd be locked in a padded cell.

Very true. It is quite amazing really, the way we developed, the things primitive man believed. It makes sense. I could also see how not too far back, perhaps even a couple hundred years ago (as you mentioned birra) people committed acts of cannibalism and as it got passed down they became monsters in peoples minds. Only recently has cannibalism in times of pure need...life and death become acceptable.

Vampires, zombies, ect. Like it has been said before, there's a basis for all of it. Humans, I believe, weren't as primitive as we think. For example, Stone Henge. It took a lot of time and work into creating something that massive.

I think the theories of the the myths and legends came from true events, not just Vlad Trepes, that people encountered or experienced. Some stories were created due to superstition, but not all.

If it is possible for possessions of demons in humans, thus having exorcisms, which are done in more cultures & religions than just Catholic, isn't possible that vampires are true living/unliving beings that do exist?

Everything in the world hasn't been discovered, labled, or catalogued. There are many things that are still unexplained, even with all our technology and advancements.

Not everything can be proven through science and sometimes the things that seem unreal or untrue are more realistic and believeable than people want or care to admit.

who said all early humans were primitive?

Of course science cant prove everything. And at a certain point it isn't about that, it comes down to what legends people choose to believe in. All the proof in the universe will never be enough for some people. As well as all the evidence to disprove something. People see what they want to see ultimately.

Vampires appear to be nonexistent because people only notice the fake ones.

The Pyramids in Egypt are an architectural marvel. Intricately designed and built, even today the solid stone blocks they were built on are dead on level....

They also believed in Amon-Ra, the sun god, which controlled the universe... they had over 2000 gods collectively.. some only worshipped by certain regional tribes.. gods that controlled every aspect of their lives as they viewed it.

Being advanced enough to build and create doesn't mean they understood everything that happened around them...

So if someone said that you didn't exist, and just based upon what they do and don't see......you by default are non existent?

hmmmmm

True birra

in fact one can be VERY oblivious to what is going on even if they can do amazing things. This doesn't make them stupid.....they just simply do not have what we have today, the knowledge of the world we live in. We, can see truly see, outside ourselves...well we have the ability to. Vampirism the more I think about it, is in the eye of the beholder.

well debating this could go on forever im sure, as so can vampires to me vampires can be anything something that steals your blood, i used to call the nurses who took my blood in the hospital a vampire,lol

but the real ones would be the undead which the term i think describes it all the rest are not real atleast thats my belief

That is a very interesting concept. I think it has more to do with the movies. People see them and sometimes it seems to be really fake. Thats all that they know. Some people might not want to believe in it all.

Good point.... If you have any more info on that Dahmer case let me know it sounds interesting (Jeffrey Dahmer is the name of the guy on The Ringer. lol.)

Foklore has created some amazing creatures. However, they are all the same in intent. I can't remember what book it was, I want to say it was by Konstantinos (Ick), but he did make a good point. You take the birth of the more noted, vampiric foklore from all around the world, and place them on a timeline. They will all sit on top of eachother, with simular storylines and plots. The oddity to this, they come from different regions that had no awarness of the others and no means to travel to them. This is a big coincidence, is it not?

simple ghouls dont try to kill you very often were as vampires kill 3 -4 times a day and then another to eat

how do vampirs kill in the day? i thought they were nocturnal! lol

real vampires you see in moives dont exist buddy, sure we have created our own sub culture of them, but those ones are just fairy tales

ok vampires are fucking real people and if you don't believe it i don't think this is the site for you i'm not saying who this site is fo but, come on there has been proof of the existenece of vampires, although the movies are bullshit with a capital shit alright don't beleive movies, everything has to come from somewhere and dammit it's not based of that person every one says dracula is based off of, i can't say much because the vampire isn't exactly public that's why most think they don't exist, but i can tell you this THEY EXIST!



a man once said mankind fears what they cannot/do not/ do not want to, understand! i think that's what this is a case of.

i personaly feel that they aren't saying that vampires dont exist but they are saying creatures that only come out at night and bite peoples neck to stay alive aren't real. we created our own sub culture of a vampire, we dont imatate the ones in movies.

If Vampires truly exist can we all stop worshipping Lestats ass! That is not how Vampires are godamnit! You read any piece of folklore and you'll see Vampires are described as raising from the grave, dirty, rotting and decaying.
Since when, someone inform me, has decaying rotting flesh been sexy and sedictive or are we all into necrophellia?

ok yoru stupid, vampires as in moive vampores dont esist, total folk, but we haev created our own sub class of vampires, that we call eachother vampires but we are nowhere near teh legend

I can sit here and say I'm a Vampire, been alive 200 years and I love to drink young girls blood.

What does that make me? Someone who watches to many films. Anyone can say their a Vampire and people believe it because they want to think it's true.

Im a vampire I've been alive for about 19 years and I'll probably be dead in another 80, doesnt mean I dont exist, I just dont follow the bull that the movies portray.

hell im a vampire 20 years strong and ill be lucky to see 70 the imortal lore is based on one fact. and that is that the soul lives on

I believe that some people are immortal because their soul never dies

I would consider Dahmer a deeply disturbed person, not a ghoul. The description of his activities does loosely fit the ghoul definition but in my mind a ghoul must also be dead.

Despite this I do believe in real vampires -- the psy and sang variety.

athos...try being a little less rude about your responses and you might start getting a little more respect for your ideas on the site,
as to doubting, well as has been said, every legend has it's grain of truth at the core, vampires...sure, they are people with a natural afinity for parasitic tendencies, be they physical(sanguin), emotional(psychic), or mental(simple ego vamps)
Ghouls, simply put eaters of the bodies of the dead, yes Dahmer most certainly would rate, as would many other killers.
Zombies, there have been a few threads on the research of Dr. Wade Davis on this topic, concerning drugging to the point of serious brain damage and a deathlike appearance mixed with torture used to train these unfortunates

lol, he is angsty and takes everything far too seriously. We are talking about people outside the site who do not believe. They cant leave if they aren't here ok? since when did everyone start to get their panties in a wad over what others think.

The existance of vampyres or vampires (either type) is held at a distance simply because of what time (and the creative imaginations of many a writer) has done to the "real occurance". When people believed in vampires, they were NOT what is seen in the movies and books as they are today. If a vampire was stalking a village, they dug up the corpse, cut off it's head, and put the head by the dead body's feet to keep it from rising again. Then, along comes Bram Stoker, Anne Rice, and whoever else you want to bring into it and suddenly...well, vampires are undead, but they are the tragic victims, you suddenly find yourself cheering for the vampire (as in the case of Lestat de Lioncourt). So, people have gotten used to that idea, they aren't scary anymore, but they don't exist either, because how can an undead creature who drinks the blood of mortal man really exist? People don't know the truth, and most don't want to. They are happy with their misconceptions.

"Ghouls" are people with serious insanity problems...they are like non human in a way, because of so much lost touch of reality, and living in their own insane mind. Sorry, just had to say that. I've read plenty of stories on insane people, and I have read about people eating dead corpses and doing gruesome things. But, then again, you have a point, folklore has to start somewhere!

I cannot agree with Dalimer being a ghoul. He may have been inspired to eat of his victims by a zombie tale or simply his own madness. He was a serial killer, he stalked, hunted and murdered with careful planning. A zombie might kill and eat but I doubt he'll plan out the best way to escape capture while doing it.

The conversation in the general forums needs to remain civil; flaming other members is disallowed. I won't close the post, I will simply delete future rude posting.

No one, outside of Cancer, needs to be telling anyone to leave the site. The site is maintained as a vampire database; all aspects, folklore and myth included. A member certainly does not need to identify, live, or even believe in "real" vampires to contribute to discussions.

i think having a mind state other than what is considered normal, could constitute for haveing a psychiatric problem wouldnt you say?

as their is no real deffinition for sanity only insanity

they do exist, in one way or another.

Insanity is relative. It extends far beyond the simple definition given.

well many people dont want to belive because there afraid of what they might find in the future if they became more open

People are afraid of what they don't understand and find it far easier to believe the tales of vampire are just that tales. They do exsist, but not in the atypical Hollywood description.

Nice point...never thought about that...and the ghoul..well I think your right there to.

I know exactly what you mean and it pisses me off, too. I was watching a show, "Is It Real?" and they supposedly had a medical explenation for every little thing about vampires, except one, that was living proof. He was very much alive and drank blood otherwise felt weak. He was anemic, and it completely supports the fact that he was a vampire. They could not find any reason he couldn't be. While he was young and had no idea what a vampre was, he had the thirst for blood. All they really said was you decide. And all I had to say was that I KNOW. People just dismiss it because it sounds "abnormal". And anything that is "abnormal" is wrong ti society. So I just tell those people to shove it.

nightgame, by technicality, a zombie and a ghoul mythologically are not the same creature, ghouls are not classically undead but are cursed living who eat the dead

and an aside, I realise that i am not always the nicest guy around here, i often am known to use truth like a sledgehammer and wit as a scalpel.....but at the same time I try not to be openly insulting and rude, if you disagree with someone and think them a fool....use wit to prove the point... and truth to hammer the point home...this can be done without direct name calling