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What makes a goth a goth and a punk a punk? I've always wondered and I've had so many people tell me different things. Can you help me?

It has nothing to do with how you look.
It's in your blood, your soul, your thoughts, your mind, your heart, your life.

It is when you cut the string that connects you with the mainstream society.

In all honesty, there is a fine line between the two. It is easy to cross from one to the other. The only differences I have seen may be in musical tastes. But then, that crosses over too. It' s like anything else-its all in perception. I consider myself goth, but punk is cool too. Here's an example-There is a band called Bella Morte. They are loved by punks and goths alike because they cross both barriers. Alot of their older songs seem more "gothic" while their new stuff seems more "punk". I dont find much difference between goth and punk, honestly. Except goths dont wear as many mohawks and torn up clothes, but again, thats all in perception

Lables are bad... They should never be used...

like stormie said, its in your blood, how you think, and that kind of stuff. goths are more morbid thinkers, while punks are just out to be different and have fun. there is a diff between the two and i hate it when they get mixed up. punks are like your skaters, people who go against authority because they can and cause they dont like them. goths are like your wiccans, people who go against everything they dont like or believe in. ok, now im confusing myself so i'll stop there. sry if i messed anything up...

I do need to add that alot of the youth is corrupting the beauty of the gothic way, with lack of maturity and understanding that BEING GOTH IS NOT A FASHION STATEMENT.

It's a choice, and not a way to be "COOL".

Dammit people! Leave that for mainstream.

I quite agree with all of you-goth has been made into something that is either about fashion or people "assume" that goth is evil. I would be very happy if people would stop labeling, but that wont happen until they wake up and accept things they cannot change. But yes, goth is a way of life, and so is punk. Neither are "fashion statements"

Well concidering goth used to be a subclassification of Punk, it's easy to see where the two can find some similarities. In the 80s goth became it's own "subculture."

To quote another website, " Goth unashamedly celebrates the dark recesses of the human psyche. Put the back of your hand on your forehead, and you're there: dark sensuality, sweeping sadness, morbid fascination, forbidden love, the beauty of enduring pain, you get the picture."

I think that a better description than I can give.

Many people lead unhappy, unachieved lives. And that's sad. Goth makes depression and angst a lifestyle choice, and that's art.

Being Goth doesn't mean you're a wiccan, pagan, vampire or anything else. It means you're a Goth. All the others are mutually exclusive.
Ok, that was wordy, but I have strong feelings about this topic.

did you guys ever think that some of the mainstream stuff is what some goths like..............i mean i like some mainstream music ........its my kind of music im not trying to be the same im just trying to be myself

Of course. My description didn't have anything to do with musical taste. You can listen to what you want. Goth,EBM,Industrial, etc. just tend to be the prevalant music, not the rule.

I have to rant before I put in my .02$
to those who are anti label.....wake up!
think about it next time you see a guy in nikes and think of him as a jock.....
EVERYONE LABELS!!!!!!!!
k back to the question...
I thikn it has to do with a different way of looking at the world....seeing the darker side of life for what it truly is...stomping your damned rose coloured glasses into powder...and seeing that even in death and darkness there is a serene beauty
and no...I do not consider everyone who wears black and listens to bahaus a goth...
actually most of the ppl who hang out at the goth industrial club I go to I would say are simply klingons...and a core few really love the dark

What makes anyone what they are? Attitude.

I don't think there's an answer for this.Everyone has a different perspective.

Every goth and punk diffirent from each other.

However these days to be a 'goth' or a 'punk' it's just fashion, not sub-culture and a way of life like it used to be.

And yes labels suck but everyone labels and we have to live with them.

It's in your blood, your soul, your thoughts, your mind, your heart, your life& depends on how u live n lived.

I have to agree with Xander on this one. People should not be labeled for something they believe in or how they dress. How they are should reflect their personality and attitude, not a dumb label

Thanks everyone. You are really helping me out.

Their ability to be themselves, and not a goth.

Or, if you're talking about what most teenagers consider being goth... then you find a group of friends that all wear black, smoke cloves, act depressed, hate everything, are obsessed with Marilyn Manson, and try to be different by being being just like each other.... then just be like them.

As for what passes for punk these days.... I'm not even going there.

*laughs*

I love streotypes, they ar eone of the prime examples of how a race that thinks we know it all can be so petty and narrow minded.

A couple of weeks ago, a man came into the shop I work in, and said

"look at your piercings... you must be one of those goths. what does a goth believe in. why are you goth?"

I asked him why he was so ignorant to believe that he had the power to put my soul in a pigeon hole.

I agree with Stormie's first post...Being gothor punk or whatever is what you feel on the inside, not what is seen on the outside.

People usually say 'if you dress in black all the time, you're a goth'.

I disagree completely.

I believe it has to do with what you feel, and how you want to be. Music can have something to do with it to.

That's what I think. ^_^

I think Goth is just a way of life and a point of view. I think goth is just a persons ability to look at the darker side of life and see its true beauty.

It's not about being depressed all the time or wearing black all the time. But most goths do listen to alot of Industrial and EBM. And most goths do wear alot of black. That doesn't mean they all do.

One stereo type I'd really like to get rid of is the stereo type that all goths are depressed, ALL THE TIME. I don't think this is true. Goths can laugh and have fun just like anybody else. And not all goths are evil or Satanist.

People need to understand that being Goth is beautiful and not negative at all.

I AM ...

I am a goth because you say I am a Goth,
I am a punk because you say I am a Punk,
I am a Burnout because you say I am a Burnout,
I am a Prep because you say I am a Prep,
I am a Jock because you say I am a Jock,
I am a Gang-banger because you say I am a Gang-banger,
I am Bitch because you say I am a bitch.
I am a whatever you choose to label me,
Because you choose to label me as such.
My dress is what stands out,
There for my dress is what you label.
Yes it's a fact of life no one likes labels, And yet still we all label one another.
Why ask what makes this or that what it is,
Instead why not ask what makes me, me!

By HellChildDami 7/6/05 &copy

just be who u are, if people label u who cares ur just being u, u dont need to explain to anyone so fuck em

those are my thoughts exactly. who the fucks cares what others think about them? im just wondering what other people think.

as for myself. i think that being goth is a state of mind. how you dress and how you act has nothing to do with it.

the fact of the matter is that most people who call themselves 'goth' are simply posers! im not saying that about every self-proclaimed goth because that wouldnt be true or fair.

being goth has its advantages and disadvantages. for one if you dont want to talk to people you can always scare them however, you also have a lot of nasty rumors that follow you simply because of what and who you are.

the interesting thing about stereotypes....
we form them for a reason....when a majority of people act a certain way...then you can reasonably assume that others in the same grouping also will act the same
and thus becomes a stereotype

the decisions they make or the negative attitudes people give them.

OH MY GOD
This question depresses me so much i want to kill myself.
HA HA HA!
Seriously, i remember a few years ago, ok quite a few years ago the first time i heard someone say "you are so gothic"
i was thinking "what the fuck is gothic"
So im not suprised the question still remains...
Hey, let's take pride in it when we are equated with the label, whether positive in nature or negative,
As to what "GOTHIC" is, i guess it is all in the eye of the beholder.
That is whether self or others...
UM, i think black is a pre req. though.

No wait, I think it means you have to put on a trench coat and shoot up a high school.
Atleast that is what focus on the family in Colorado, Bob Larson, And the main stream media is saying...
Now i really am depressed....

catigorisation has all ways annoyed me, i have been classed, grundger, goth, loner, death obsesive, vampire obsesive, vilotent. the people who make these statements feel the need to catograsie me, i dont knwo why, many times i have been asked what are you? poeple should be able to live with out lables to hold them back, we should be free to change.

Ok, I'm gonna break this down by music, screw your look, this is about your soul. No BS, if you don't listen to GOTH or PUNK, then your not either of them.

If you listen to more of,

1.The Cure

sorry bout that, wrong key, anyway....

If you listen to more of,

1. The Cure (late to recent)
2. Clan of Xymox
3. Other crap that sounds like these two bands

you're Goth

If you listen to more of:

1. Black Flag
2. Dead Kennedys
3. Circle Jerks
4. or any other bands that sound like this crap

You're punk

There are overlaps...If you're listening to The Damned, Marilyn Manson, NIN, Bella Morte, AFI, and other things that sound like this crap...
Then you're human and not as easily pigeon-holed...you probably dont know quite what you come off as. You swing both ways...and maybe a few other ways.

What we listen to does not make us who we are. I listen to everything from old school punk, goth, industrial, metal, underground rap, old school gangsta rap, classical, progressive rock, alternative, pretty much a little bit of everything.

to each heir own and how they percieve it..

what you listen to ... may not make you what you are. But what you are...goes a long way to determine what you listen to. what you like is part of what you are.

What makes a goth who they are?...
well here's my $ 0.02 worth...i think it is definately their view of the world around them and willingness to acknowledge the beauty in Death and not shun it like Society tries to do.I think the dark clothing often attributed to Goths is just an expression of familiarity within itself(an association if you will) and not who they necessarily are.Anyway enough ranting on my part....

Gimme a G... ggggggg
Gimme a O.. ooooooo
Gimme a T.. ttttttttttt
Gimme a H.. hhhhhhh

ok i dunno what that had to do with anything.. i just felt like donning my black cheerleader skirt... and giving us a cheer :)

But what makes me a goth is society's labels.. Before i was a goth i was a new waver.. before the term new waver i was briefly called punk.. lol Anyhow.. i don't mind the term so much.. Everyone needs a group to identify with and i'm proud to be a goth chick, and raise my kids listening to good music (aka: cure, dm, vnv, etc) :P and live a in a way where they don't turn into some of the assholes i grew up with by mocking ppl just because they aren't like mainstream society... :) anyhoo.. stepping down off my soapbox now..lol

why do people belive in stereotypes?

It is a pointless lable...a person can not be neatly catogorized

Another one of these!
Change subject

i am a goth... what made me like this? well i think the sadness, the vampires and the gothic and black metal

I think these's label's such a goth/gothic or punk.. I mean honestly they are a just a label.. Nothing more nothing less, we are all humans.. People make these names to formlize a stereotype about everyone.. How is a goth any different from any other person? They're depressed, they dress different? So what! I think it is pointless to be put into caterogies, there pointless n pathetic.. Everyone is human, they make mistakes.. n such.. But I mean... c'mon now people.. Is there really goth n punk?

OK I'm gonna puke if i dont get this off my chest. People, we don't need to worry about labels. They mean nothing. Sure other people need to label us, but screw them. BE YOU. That's all you need to be. In fact, you is all you really need.
~morgana

hugs HatredOfAll
Gives her a Smartie

Well everyone labels, or you accept it or you don't.

I was bullied and called a lot of names cause of my opinions,music and way to dress,and was also called a poser,cause ignorant people tought that am a wannabe depressive to be goth, well everyone has probs in his life,if goth was for sadness than everyone would be a goth,cause everyone has its ups and downs in his life.

However I say I am myself and attracted to the gothic scene, not a goth.Cause it is like you have a tattoo on your forehead which says goth -_-.

Then if you hate labels then or you either ignore comments and be yourself, or be like others want you, and no one will label you.Some choose who they are, some are born like this.Like I said before, or you accept it,or you don't.

*I was beside you all the time & still am

lol tnx but I didn't post that to be pitied, I did it for the hope for others to understand more, and just accept that labels are just part of life, everyone lives with them,I still hate them but at least I accepted them, no big deal just another part of life,there are more severe things :)

*puts on the puppy eyes....so you don't appreciate!!!?
*Cries...

lofl, you know I do, but we'r getting off topic lol!

*the topic sucks anyway
*sticks a vodka tainted banana in her mouth

wow how many times people make them selves who they are you are what you are stop labeling people

*stick a label on karlas forehead that reads
*smartass*
:P

i think its about the way you act and what you do in life tht is the deference between the two

Act huh!!!!!
Of do you mean ''being yourself''

there are no goths

there's no such thing as goth

1# a true goth is an anti goth

2# they piss eyeliner

I always wondered why mine's not yellow!

well now you know :)

goth is just a state of mind,point of views & perspectives...these threads are pointless,seen like 100 since i been here...
all these idiotic people wear may-cup and go round holding a huge sign...'"i'm goth,yay''

lol
aww im such a fan of the walmart goths

lol NME don't be so cruel, not everyone is like that,however posers are everywhere but don't judge everyone

there is no goth it is really a person who is just pushing their self away. nothing esle to say.

Thank you to the people who put "there are no goths". When I joined here I tried saying that but people insisted they were goth and got mad at me. You aren't a name. You're a human being. Thank you.
*hugs those people*
~Morgana~

i think it's how you act when your around people, the way you talk and the things you say. your idea's on life, your attitude and mostly the things you do

a goth is a goth...i am a gothic boy....much in the soul...a look like a modern goth,but in my soul,there is an enetnal love...things that make a goth a goth:
-Love...Dark Love,indeed...what this person feels with his/her heart.
-Dreams...I dream at an another world...i dream at my girlfriend,i like to escape from this world full of misery...i like to create my own world...like this site makes,it creates a world just for us...`cause we are more special...
-Art: drawings,poetry,books,why not lyrics...
-What a goth like,and what a goth dislikes...`cause i don`t think you are a true goth if you`re dressing like one,and you listen just punk,or things that are in the other part of the world...

goth is a way of life. dressing in black and pretending not to care makes you a poser.you have to wholly believe in what you are doing.

agrees with littleblackheart!
I'msick of saying that

and also with Ettrikin

Screw labels. They're dumb.

*how can you screw a label...
*winks and pokes tongue out

I have to agree with the sexy Karla. We are who we are.

stromie said it best in her first two responses its not how you look its how you are borne...you are who you are regardless of how you dress........if its your destiny live it to the fullest...

there dark personality and there dark views on life.