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One Hebrew Myth Talks About A Woman Not Made Out Of The Rib Of Adam Like Eve, But Made Of Dust Just Like Him, Supposed To Be Adam's First Wife Called LILITH.
It Is Said That None Wanted To Be Sumissive To Each Other And Adam Applied To Her Being "Made To Obey Him".
Her Answer Was Equality,They Both Where Made Out Of Dust,They Both Were The Same. Due To This Lilith Left And Hid In The Depths Of The Sea... Gods Angels Plead Her To Return But It Was Immpossible. Some Versions Of The Legend Say She Rules Hell Next To Satan. Others Say She Was Thrown Out Of Hell And Heaven And Lurks Throughout Eternity. Some Say She Is Queen Of The Vampires. Could It Be?

There was a very interesting book in a series called For Love of Evil. it is the sixth book in the Incarnations of Immortality series by Pierse Anthony. there is a very large section of that book devoted toLilith or Lilah as she is called in the book. but its suposed to be the same person

Yes. Old arabic lore talks of lilitu. She is rumored to have been sent to Vlad tepes as a treaty gift hence that is how Vlad became dracula. Lilitu is the first vampire ever recorded. Lilitu from arabic lore is the same as lilith in others. The mother of all demons (vampires).

i think if the vampires in the immortal type could have been descendants of this lilith as there is some stories that are deffinately missing

There is a pretty interesting book out called "The Book of Lilith"
It might help you on that

I was under the impression that Judeo-Christian beliefs held that she was punished for not being subservient to Adam. You're version implies that she made the choice and that god still wanted her to come back. Interesting contrast. If in fact women used to hold higher positions in early versions of the jedeo-christian religion (as I've read), this would be an excellent sample of how men sought to remove their influence while strengthening their own by changing the very text of their history or prophets.

the jews had the option of putting lilth in the tora but they did not becuse lilith is just lore,interesting lore but just that

There Are Different Versions Of The Story, Depends On Your Belief Wich One You Pick....

This theory has come up a lot in books i have read, you could find some stuff in major librarys in your city or something like that.

The whole Lilith thing only works if you believe in the biblical mythos. I do not, therefore it is just a story. The first vampire was the first human to need something they didn't understand, thereby turning to blood. They found it helped them in some way, and continued to do it.

Both ElderDaniel and myself had several years of interest in Lilith, for different reasons before we met. Together we hold a very impressive library, for both vampire information and information about Lilith.

What is written, read and personal beliefs in truth are completely different things. To each his own.

My personal opinion, she is NOT as horribly evil or demonic as everyone portrays her as. It actually breaks my heart a bit when I read that. She is very real, and influences so many people throughout history.

That's my 2 cents.

Oh, PS

Just want to let everyone know that my avatar is actually a Michael Linsners artwork called "Lilith".

Plus I have a tattoo behind my neck written "Lilith" in a lovely scroll work.

Just thought you should know.

hmmm.. yes I've heard of that before, but I don't know if I can actually believe this to be "real" or not. My theory is that it is just myth.

the story is mostly right. Lilith was kicked out of eden because Adam didn't want her to be his equal. she went out to live among the men of the world. it is said that she loved one of the Fallen. which of the Fallen is not made clear. but she didn't go to hell and Satan dose not rule there, Lucifer dose. and no Satan and Lucifer are not one in the same. Satan is one of the grand dukes of hell along with Belial, Beelzebub to name a few.

the monsters i.e. Vampires, werewolves....ect. the children of the night are the offspring of Lilith and the Fallen's union.

some believe that Lilith still walks the Earth.

Lilith is mentioned in the bible as well, although it is obscured:

Isa 34:14 —
The wild beasts of the desert shall also meet with the wild beasts of the island, and the satyr shall cry to his fellow; the "SCREECH OWL" also shall rest there, and find for herself a place of rest.

-Wikipedia.org says:
Lilith as Adam's first wife
The passage in Genesis 1:27 — "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female he created them" (before describing a mate being made of Adam's rib and being called Eve in Genesis 2:22) is sometimes believed to be an indication that Adam had a wife before Eve.

A medieval reference to Lilith as the first wife of Adam is the anonymous The Alphabet of Ben-Sira, written sometime between the 8th and 11th centuries. Lilith is described as refusing to assume a subservient role to Adam during sexual intercourse and so deserting him ("She said, 'I will not lie below,' and he said, 'I will not lie beneath you, but only on top. For you are fit only to be in the bottom position, while I am to be the superior one.'"). Lilith promptly uttered the name of God, took to the air, and left the Garden, settling on the Red Sea coast.

Two important observations should be made here: Lilith left the Garden of her own accord, before the Fall of Man, and is without Original Sin. She knows the name of God, making her an extremely powerful, and perhaps unique, cosmological being.

Lilith then went on to mate with Samael and various other demons she found beside the Red Sea, creating countless lilin. Adam urged God to bring Lilith back, so three angels were dispatched after her. When the angels, Senoy, Sansenoy, and Semangelof, made threats to kill one hundred of Lilith's demonic children for each day she stayed away, she countered that she would prey eternally upon the descendants of Adam and Eve, who could be saved only by invoking the names of the three angels. She did not return to Adam.

The story of Lilth pre-dates the bible by 10,000s years....You must look into a much earlier culture to find the whole story and the basis of the biblical story....

Yes,
Wikipedia.org also mentions the story of gilgimesh and other references, but I wasn't going to copy paste teh entire artical. I figured the smart people that were interested would go read for themselves.

I have many different versions to this story. I am not sure which I believe yet it is a very interesting concept that she could of been a vampire.. I will have to do more research for myself to deside.

very interesting - thanks everyone.

i wasnt aware of the story of Lilith until now. Personally i dont really take bible stories as gospel but i guess they provide an intriguing incite into humanity.

That Adam reminds me of my mysogynist ex, and though i wouldnt consider myself a feminist....GO LILITH!!!

I have also been told that Lilith was the mother of Cain who later killed his brother Abel. Apparently, the children of Cain were the vampires and the children of Adam were the mortals. I considered what I heard to be a myth.

I think the story of Lilith was used to remind women to obey their husbands and to stay in their place.

enigma....claiming the story predates the bible by 10,000 years is simply preposeterous garbage and far beneath your normal bright and intelligent commenting....
written language doesn;'t even precede christ by more than 1-2000 years.....so you have an 8000 year gap to cover there with mouth to mouth stories?....not likely, it's like the people who claim paganism is millions of years old....
it's utter unprovable crap......tho you are right in that stories of lilith do predate much of christianity..
and ladylilith, I would love someday to see this library of yours and dans that I keep haering of....
sorry if I seem a bit snappy there enigma...but the overexageration of historical dating really irks me in logical discussions

Let's follow hominids forward and look at candidates for the "earliest man."

7 to 6 million years ago.Sahelanthropus tchadensis. This creature is a good candidate. But we know too little yet about the species to be certain.

We found seven pieces from two skulls in the Sahel region, south of the Sahara, in Chad — a cranium, two jaw pieces, and some teeth. The braincase is like a chimpanzee's but the teeth are more like ours (small canine). The face has brow ridges, a human feature not found on living great apes. The way the neck muscles attach to the skull indicates an upright walk. Maybe. One scientist thinks it may be an early gorilla. It's hard to say with so few pieces.

6 million years ago.Orrorin tugenensis. Not such a promising candidate. Perhaps an early ape. We found pieces of arm and thighbones, lower jaws, and teeth in western Kenya. It was about the size of a female chimpanzee; perhaps bipedal and a tree climber. If it turns out that the creature was bipedal, then his rating goes up to 'likely early man.'

5.5 to 4.5 million years ago.Ardipithecus ramidus. Fair candidate as an early man. Relatively large canine teeth, narrow molars, thin enamel. Just a few skull fragments found so far. Possibly bipedal. May have been a forest dweller. Probably ate leaves and fruit.

4.2 to 3.0 million years ago. Australopithecines. This group of hominids were definitely bipedal, had small canine teeth and, therefore, were early men. The Smithsonian Institute refers to them as the first humans.

We've found fossils from various species within this group — the most famous, of course, is Lucy, a 3.5- to 4-foot (1.1 to 1.2 m) tall woman who lived about 3.2 million years ago.

Early men of Lucy's species (afarensis) had low foreheads, bony ridges over the eyes, flat noses, and no chins. Protruding jaws, large back teeth — their skulls were much like those of chimps except for the teeth. The canine teeth were smaller than apes and not so pointed. The legs and pelvis, however, were definitely like modern men, but better suited to walking than running.

2.4 to 1.5 million years ago.Homo habilis. Bipedal and similar to the australopithecines but with smaller back teeth. Definitely an early man. Possibly able to talk, judging from a bulge (Broca's area) in the cranium (visible in only one skull) that is essential for speech. Habilis was about 4 feet (1.2 m) tall.

So, to answer your question. Man is, maybe, as old as 7 million years and, surely, as old as 2.4 million years.


If this is true... paganism can surely be millions of years old... it is likely that the concept of religeon was arround even for the earliest man... the first religeon would have been a pagan one... not wiccan surely... but pagan.

also, myth can surely predate written history... the story of Noah and the flood does. Oh, and look... lilith shows up in the story of gilgimesh.

Now I am curious as to whether lilith shows up in native history. I mean especilly concidering that natives are theorized to be cain's descendants and that the mark of cain is the inability to grrow facial hair.

ive also heard it clamed that since she was made of ether, after being banished for not being subserviant that she may have changed shape into the very snake that tempted eve. if so id say she got em pretty good

Kglitterous - using Homo habilis and Ardipithecus ramidus as possible practitioners of 'paganism' leaves out the fact that Homo habilis had a brain capacity roughly equal to half of Homo sapiens and it's unknown if it even had linguistic capabilities. It didn't appear to have social organization and it's tools were simple barely above chimps.

Ardipithecus ramidus is still being argued as a possible different genus. In fact there has been some proposals to move the Homo habilis to a different genus as well since both have strikingly more apelike features than other's in the homo genus (arms longer than legs, apelike jaw and birth canal)

To get to real social organization, we'd at least have to start around Homo erectus but more likely with actual Homo sapiens. The oldest theories on Homo Sapiens places them about 200,000 years ago...which even by modern history (which would make that a drop in the well of the planet's history) is a pretty long time (almost 40-50 times our written history).

et all - I'm still of the belief that there was culture and civilization over 15,000 years ago but that during the massive cataclysms that took effect around 10,000 BC (Floods, Earthquakes, Temperature shifts), they were likely wiped clean. Given that, I'd like to say that Lilith myths may very well be early verbal histories of 'pre-historic' cultures like our current flood myths. Perhaps there was a more equal share of power between men and women in these civilizations that were destroyed and a change to a more male dominated society was 'recorded' as a single person in myth (Lilith).

I've heard of it but i duno if its not just another ploy to conform people in to there popetts. I mean seriousley it drives me nuts people telling others that if they dont believe in the same as them its considered devil warship
>:( groar!!! (sry i had someone macking acusations about me being wiccan) its so freakn' angering!!!

This is why i am toatlly against organized religion. because most of them say " we are right all others are wrong. anything that we dont believe is evil and bad. conform as many as you can to assure your place!" well you know what i say kiss my ass stupid closed minded religions!

I do agree that as men in power have clung desperately to a patriarchal society, 'macking' accusations of devil 'warship' was an excellent way to make 'popetts' out of the masses and that woman having been the initiator of sin and lilith being cast out for independent thought was also likely used to make sure that women didn't receive a fair share of the decision 'macking'.

Still, I'm highly interested in the possibility that early myths of gods and the first man or woman (Adam, Eve, or Lilith) may not have actually been about a single person but may have been symbolic of larger cultural or societal movements. Verbally passing down history can be difficult and inaccurate but if it's packaged into a myth about one person or god, then the meaning of the history may be preserved. So Lilith may not have been a single person but a metaphor for a whole society where women were on equal footing with men...a group that chose to leave rather then become subservient.

In my belief system, there is no hell, but there are seven layers of the underworld. Each one containing different things. The first layer under our dimension has things that we believe to be imaginary such as fairies and Leprechauns. Lilith is the queen of the underworld and controls this layer and all that are beneath it. She has been reportedly seen in Ireland (in Fairy form) and this is because the air around that area is so thick that they are able to cross dimensions easier in that area and be seen. (ever wonder why the irish believe in Leprechauns and fairies while others around the world are skeptical?)

Also I don't believe that Lilith is anything dark or monster like. I believe that is a very common misconception. But, as with almost anything on these forums, If you don't believe then just take what you will and leave what you won't.

Well the Irish don't believe in the Chinese Hopping Vampire but that's not necessarily because only the Chinese can see them hehe.

Ireland has a long history of believing in the invisible. It's a beautiful culture and although I'm quite enamoured with it, I've never heard the Lilith story. Interesting take. Still, I'm not used to taking myth or religion at face value. I tend to think that there's more to it than us recording the history of specific gods and their wishes. I think religion and myth makes for a great way to teach lessons and even history in a way that will change little throughout time.

One thing I will say about history is that the old quote that it is written by the victors. Your viewpoint on history is shaped by your experiences, where and when you were born and your cultural hertiage. I am sure the British have a different view of the American Revolution than those living in the United States.

The myth or truth about Lilith is different depending on who you talk to.

The Legend of Lilith
Lilith was once the wife of Sammael, who is incorrectly known as Lucifer. This marriage did
not last long for She is a wild, passionate and heroic soul, quite incompatible with the cold
demeanor of Sammael. After leaving Sammael, She joined with Adam.

Her time with Adam did not go well. Adam would insist and rail upon Her. "I am your lord
and master," claimed Adam. However, Lilith would say, "We are both equal, for we are both
issued from the dust, and I will not be your slave." This went on, Adam claiming he was
superior and Lilith stating that they were equal. Eventually, Lilith became tired of Adam's
self-perceived superiority and flew away.

Adam decided that this was too much and beseeched three angels - whose names were
Senoi, Sansenoi and Sammengelof, to fetch Lilith back to him. They caught Lilith above
what is now known as the Red Sea, and a great battle took place.

During the battle they realized that Lilith's powers were too great for them to force Her into
obedience, and they attempted to drown Her. She fought them off but, during the battle,
drops of Her blood fell into the sea, thus giving the Red Sea its name.

When the angels returned to report their failure, Adam went to Yahweh and said, "Oh,
Almighty Lord, the creature that was my wife has left me, claiming that since we both came
from the dust, we were equal and she refused to be my servant."

So the Almighty in his wisdom, caused a sleep to fall upon Adam, and in his slumber
removed a rib. This He fashioned into a woman. As She had come from man, She was a
part of man and, thus, belonged to man.

i would say check the book called - the book of lilth

thats the first ive heard of Lilith being related to the christian 'world' but there are so many stories, it doesnt surprise me, much like Judas being the first vampire, i thought that idea was kick ass

Daemon, maybe you should re-check your information about the written language. You mention that they only started writing 1-2000 yeas ago, the time our calender years used today starts, by the birth of Christ. But that is just the new testament. The old testament containing legends about persons such as Adam and Eve, lillith and Noa etc, pre dates your age spand. Even the Incas which culture can be traced 4000 years back, had a form of writing, not actual words and sentence structures as we use today but marks, symbols and drawings that each tell a story.

About Lillith. The myth has been told many times and comes in various versions. I do not think she is the mother of vampires, but more a role model for modern day feminism, and not being submissive to men.

Someone brought up the "Epic of Gilgamesh," writen by the Babylonian/Sumerians/Ubadians--all the same since one came from the others. The Sumerians did have the first written language. If there was a character resembling Lilith, this only proves that it IS a story, and that is it. The "Lilith" story from the bible would be considered stolen and invalid, IMHO.

you should also know that adam had 3 wives.

Lilith was first, followed by an un-named 2nd and then Eve.

when God made adam's 2nd wife adam watched God make her and was repulsed. adam refused to touch her so she too left eden never to return. no one knows what happened to her.

So God made Eve while adam was asleep.

"Even the Incas which culture can be traced 4000 years back, had a form of writing, not actual words and sentence structures as we use today but marks, symbols and drawings that each tell a story."

Nianna...my claim was that written language only PRE dates christianity by 1000-2000 years....add to that the 2000 years you just mentioned...and you get that 4000 years...
hmm...math lesson done now
give or take 3-500 years...when dealing with these time frames after all...a couple hundred years is forgivable considering our carbon dating methods
the point was that no mattter what science you go by...20 000 years is still a wildly unprovable claim on the very best of days

Either way,true or untrue,the story of Lilith only goes to show that men viewed women as they did their own children-be subserviant or pay the price.original stories of Lilith that I heard told that Lilith was Adam's first wife but because she had a will of her own and wanted to be Adam's equal,his wife,his partner,not a slave,Adam grew angry and this in turn angered God and thus she was cast out of the Garden of Eden.

The story of Lilith is interesting no matter what version you are reading. To me , Lilith represents a woman or any woman that does not want to let a man keep her downtrodden.

Mircalla.... I agree with you and scrolls about her are supposed to be within the Dead Sea Scrolls.

I beleive that she rules side by side with Satan, and she is the mother of all succubi.

it's a shame that more men cannot accept women as our equals
myself..i take people on the merit of what they prove....regardless of gender....for example..in numerous years of construction work
the hardest worker/boss I ever had was a woman about 5'2"maybe 100 pounds....she frequently outworked the rest of usand told us what slackers we are....now part of the problem is most girls also figure they can't do such work....so in fact with that mindset...they cant...
but I don't agree with subservience based on gender....only on personality

Its definitely hard to say because all the ancient texts that have been made to where we can read is usually somehow misconstrued. Its been proven that (if you believe) the bible that we have today (KJV) is nowhere near close to the ancient texts & is missing lots of valuable information since man translated to the best of his knowledge throughout the years. Theres so much out there in the world that we are still unaware of anyways so it is very possible that Lilith could be the queen indeed....

Daermon - you've only pointed to physical labor as a means of proving equality. I'm sure that wasn't intentional but wanted to reiterate your claim with less physical examples. Women have proven to be valuable leaders in global politics, law, exploration, invention and family. It's long been proven in my mind that women are on a completely equal footing with men. I agree that people should be judged for their intentions and their actions.

Et all - That's why the Lilith myths or stories where she's kicked out is particularly interesting and more importantly ironic.

Adam didn't like the idea of living in Eden with Lilith as his equal...she's booted out. Adam has a subservient wife created...she is duped in to eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge (perhaps because she was of a subservient mentallity)...she gets Adam to eat...they both get the boot from Eden...So by Adam refusing to share equal power in Eden...he gets his own ass kicked out. Stupid shit that he was.

I love a good ironic ending. Had he managed to tone down his ego and live with Lilith as equals, likely he'd still be in Eden hehe.

hehe there was a reason i used the physical....
it is the defining difference in most cases....
right down to basic genetics....men are designed as a powerhouse while women are simply designed with more finesse, generally smaller, with more natural grace, but this does not stop a determined woman from doing the same work...
mental is also defining..but not always in such a readily apparent way....

So you're saying that even our physical differences (which I hope no-one will argue we don't have) between men and women don't keep us from accomplishing equal footing or success even in physical labor?

precisely....women might have to lift a little differently..but they are by no means unable.
for the mental, actually a few studies even infer that woman might have the edge on us guys..heh

I'd agree...we're finding that athletic records are getting closer to each other as well now that we've applied similar but more specialized training for each.

As for intelligence...I won't argue that certain characteristics of both genders can severly hamper logical thought...who's worse off I don't know.

I still think it's hilarious that in the myth or story of Adam and Eve and Lilith, Adam's preferential wife (the submissive) is the reason that he gets booted out of Eden.

They Say Lilith Was The Tempting Snake...

If Lilith was indeed the tempting snake then all i can say (by no means am i a feminist in any way) is congratulations & way to go lilith! damn fine job you did!

While it is said that Lilith was the first vampire, one should not be too quick to forget Vlad the Impaler

I just recently heard about lilith it is not a story that would hav benn taught me in my home growing up.

I know she is said to be the mother of all vampires.
and to be the original wife of adam.

I have looked for this book I think I am speeling it wrong or something.
does anyone know who the author is of "the book of lilith"?

The author of the book: The Book of Lilith just so happens to be Barbara Black Koltuv.

I wrote an article about the book's subject several months ago, and the amount of information that came up while I was researching it was astounding.

Apparently, Lilith was made from the same vile, "dirty" clay that Adam was said to have been made from in God's image. She was suppossedly a "free-spirited" creature who saw herself as equal to anything and everything.

When Adam asked her to lie beneath him, she took what Adam asked as a command and that it would make her subservient to him; since she believed herself to be his equal, she blatantly refused, and said he should lie beneath her.

Becoming slightly enraged, Adam finally did command Lilith to do as she was told because it was her purpose.

After this, Lilith called out God's true name, and fled the Garden of her own accord. She retreated to a cave across the red sea, where she resolved to live, since she could not bear the thought of facing Adam, or God.

God spoke to Adam after this, and after telling God what had happened, God sent three angels to bring Lilith back to the Garden to give her reasons for leaving.

When the angels arrived, they pleaded with Lilith to return to Eden and listen to Adam and God, but Lilith refused, and told the angels that she would return on the condition that Adam would see her as an equal.

One thing led to another(Adam obviously refused to do as Lilith wanted, and basically cursed her name) and the angels returned to Lilith's cave the next day, ready to bring her back by force if necessary.

Upon their arrival, they told Lilith either return, or have one thousand of your children killed for everyday you are gone. Lilith still refused, and chased the angels from her den.

Then, as in the scriptures, God put Adam into a deep sleep, and made a woman from one of his ribs, one that was submissisve and did whatever Adam wished.

Later on, Lilith would return to the Garden of Eden to have sex with Adam each night while he slept to collect his seed so that she may give birth to her demon-like children each morning and thus became the first succubus.

When searching for the information on this subject, you must be very thorough and VERY specific. One vage search could lead you down a one way street in an entirely different direction.

Hopefully, I have given a little light to this subject. Pleasant info hunting.

Nykl D.

I find this discussion fascinating. As to the truth of Lilith, I have no ideal. Being raised southern Baptist, with age I quickly came to realize the bible and the teachings of the church were geared to press their own thoughts on how we are to behave. I suspect the story of Lilith may be the same but in reverse. Since she appears in many different forms and times, someone powerful was trying to undo some of the damage to seperate the equality of men and women. Either way she is an amazing ideal, but not I think the first vampire or mother of demons, that's just another smear on her name.

NyklDormir, thank you for the information I am going to check out the is book.

So Lilith i sthe mother of all demons? because of the fact that she wouldn't return to the garden of Eden as commanded.

i too beleive she is the mother of all eternal creatures and still searches for her eqauilty next to men.....though i am a bit bias as my name was lilith in a few past lives. though maybe there are some truths as almost all mythologies started somewhere right?

I do not believe in the story of Adam and Eve. So no, I don't think it could be.

Lilith has been reveiling herself to me as I walk my pagan/goth path. I have beliefs that are wiccan, druidic and norse. I agree with those that say Lilith is a free woman who chose to speak her mind, and chose not to be subserviant. She has shown me women and men are equal, each have their shared role.
If this belief makes me a vampire then I welcome this.

I have heard Lilith was demonized by the male influence to grow a religion while putting down another belief.

Lilith,in the Talmud (an ancient Hebrew text) was the first wife of Adam,defied him & the God of the Jews cursed her & she became the mother of demons.
According to the myth,she swore vengeance on Adam,Eve & all of their children (Man-Kind).
She was said to be a woman with the talons of a vulture & stole the breath or strangled infants in their cribs.
This was an early "explanation" for crib death.

Really great discussion guys.

The legend I learned of Lilith was she was the first wife of Adam. Created of the same clay as Adam. She refused to submit to him and left the garden of her own free will.

She stands as a symbol of feminism in that she wanted to be seen as an equal because she was created equally. The bible, as it is written today, conveinantly ommits her exsistance. Although you will find her story in the Dead Sea Scrolls, along with alot of other things the church doesn't want you to know.

She is one of the many powerful women that the church wanted the people to forget. Heavan forbid women should have any power...

well it is a known fact that the churchs of man were and still are notorioous for trying to make women slaves to men.

I am looking in to the story of Lilith.

I ve Heard That She Has Temped Adam And That Then She Was Punished By God To Walk The Night And Drinking The Blood Of The Living For Ever.

Demon is often interpreted in a very heavy handed sense.

Lilith and her brood are not exactly demons, if you pay close attention to the text.

See, a DEMON is one of Satans brood, a fallen Angel. Lilith was simply 'one without God.'

However, since she knew Gods Name, she weilded a significant amount of power, and since that book paints anyone who is not 'of God' as evil, she became a mysticlly powerful, evil figure (oft interpreted as a demon, or witch)...when in fact she had merely taken Dad's checkbook, BMW, and ran away from home.

Anyone descended from her would not be powerful in and of themselves. Lilith was a Mortal, a human, the First Woman. Her power came from being able to use the Word of Creation to alter herself at whim, and do whatever she needed to.

Those who come from her would not be powerful in and of themselves...but WOULD be very strong willed, independent, and creative creatures with a tendency to revile male authoritarian figures, and steer clear of the Christian church.

S'my take.

The Alphabet of Ben Sira is the earliest form we know of the Lilith legend familiar to most people.

Soon afterward the young son of the king took ill, Said Nebuchadnezzar, "Heal my son. If you don't, I will kill you." Ben Sira immediately sat down and wrote an amulet with the Holy Name, and he inscribed on it the angels in charge of medicine by their names, forms and images, and by their wings, hands, and feet. Nebuchadnezzar looked at the amulet. "Who are these?"

The angles who are in charge of medicine: Snvi, Snsvi, and Smnglof. After God created Adam, who was alone, He said, 'It is not good for man to be alone' (Gen. 2:18). He then created a woman for Adam, from the earth, as He had created Adam himself, and called her Lilith. Adam and Lilith began to fight. She said, 'I will not lie below,' and he said, 'I will not lie beneath you, but only on top. For you are fit only to be in the bottom position, while am to be in the superior one.' Lilith responded, 'We are equal to each other inasmuch as we were both created from the earth.' But they would not listen to one another. When Lilith saw this, she pronounced the Ineffable Name and flew away into the air. Adam stood in prayer before his Creator: 'Sovereign of the universe!' he said, 'the woman you gave me has run away.' At once, the Holy One, blessed be He, sent these three angles to bring her back.

"Said the Holy One to Adam, 'If she agrees to come back, fine. If not she must permit one hundred of her children to die every day.' The angels left God and pursued Lilith, whom they overtook in the midst of the sea, in the mighty waters wherein the Egyptians were destined to drown. They told her God's word, but she did not wish to return. The angels said, 'We shall drown you in the sea.'

"'Leave me!' she said. 'I was created only to cause sickness to infants. If the infant is male, I have dominion over him for eight days after his birth, and if female, for twenty days.'

"When the angels heard Lilith's words, they insisted she go back. But she swore to them by the name of the living and eternal God: 'Whenever I see you or your names or your forms in an amulet, I will have no power over that infant.' She also agreed to have one hundred of her children die every day. Accordingly, every day one hundred demons perish, and for the same reason, we write the angels' names on the amulets of young children. When Lilith sees their names, she remembers her oath, and the child recovers."

No one really knows, there are stories dating back as far as anyone can tell. History books have been written and re-written from the mouths of men. So unless one lived then, and knows for sure..Myths, and Legends they will always be. There is nothing wrong in accepting what you want, not everyone is correct in their beliefs. Because we come from such a diverse culture, everyone has their own ways. What is right for them. It is not for anyone to say which is right or wrong.
Religion and beliefs are a personal thing, no one should be dictated to, or forced into anything.

PrettyViolence,try this one.

http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/humm/Topics/Lilith/lilith.html

thank You Strigoi! I am looking at it now....
It is much appreciated.

just like everything else in the bible, her story was rewritten like all the others tosuit someones else fancy

I have bee reading the material you gave me, It didn't say anything about the bible, I thought the story was out of the Kabbalah?

I've always been of the belief that Lilith's story came first from the Sumerian myths, and was later adapted to fit the mythology of the Israelites during their captivity in Babylon... You know, handmaiden of Inanna and all that.

From what I understand, the earliest representations of her were as a great winged Bird Goddess, a wind spirit, or associated with the Sumerian Goddess of the Grain, Ninlil.

As Inanna's handmaiden, Lilith's position was to bring men from the street and from battlefields to Inanna for sexual rites.

Tara

Executia,
What you have just said is, in fact, plausible. But, as inadvertently proven, is that Lilith actually walked the earth freely and openly, if the story of Eden is true. This would mean that she existed outside of Paradise and even infused her existence into human-kind and its history, don't yop think?

This would only give another perspective on the discussion we are having, as well as giving the story a little bit more pausibility. But do not take what I say as a debate or cross-examination of your statement. Everyone here welcomes any and all thoughts and ideas.

I have heard of this before but yet to have read on it. They made a movie about it as well. >.>

Nykldormir,

I have no doubt that Lilith walked the earth freely and openly. And, as divine beings do, she would have infused herself into mankind's history. So, in that regard, you are right.

That being said, I do not believe the Eden story of Judaic and Christian myth to be true. So in no way do I believe (nor can it be proven) that she was indeed the first wife of Adam, etc., and cursed to be a demoness (or whatever) for refusal to submit to male authority.

And of course, I am a staunch Hellenist and therefore devoutly pagan, so I'm sure that colors my perception as well.

Some pagan friends of mine , said she was demonized by the church in order to crush the matriachial hold on a persons beliefs , to get people to belief in a patriarchal deity.

isnt someone going to point out that its just a book of stories? - you're not supposed to take the bible seriously you know.

I agree that the bible is a book of stories.... now as for Lilith she as legends go was a wife of adam... a first wife not sure.... she would seduce men into bed and drain there life energy.... she is not the queen of the Vampires but maybe the reason why we have the legend of the Succubi

Here's something on on "Grandma".
::grin::

http://www.whitedragon.org.uk/articles/lillith.htm

I have been reading the information that Strigoi had so kindly provided.

there seems to be some debate if Lilith was adam's first wife.

Did adam have another wife other than Lilith and Eve? and if so what happen and why is it that she is not mention, and is it possible that she is the one not Lilith that should have been reputed as the mother of all demons?

you first have to believe in the creation adam or the story of creation, it seems that we have disproved this myth, no way 2 people could populate the world, and saddly Lilith is nothing more than a good story.

I believe that Lilth,( i say this meaning no disrespect), is similar to Lucifer.
In the sense that, Like Lucifer, Lilth wanted total equality and also had the balls to stand up for what she believed in.
But like all that follow her path, we are destined to cast out of God's sight.
and out of the devil's grasp.
she exist on her own now.
forever an equal.

She made her choice with Adam and God as did Eve. She was punished as was Eve. God is not a happy camper when yolu tell him Fuck Off. Try it with your Dad and then multiply it for God's wrath

Standing up for what you feel is right is truly the only freedom we have left.
You got to do it, no matter what the outcome.
at least that is what i believe.

An interesting analogy, LordHellfire. I like it. But then, if one would tell their father "fuck off", as you so raffishly put it, God's wrath would probably have a run for its money when compared to some people's father's tempers. God can only be so vengeful and hot-tempered; fathers can be oh-so-much more.

Nykl. Considering God is commonly considered the 'father' by many, I don't think wrath is dwarfed by any means. lol

Very true my friend, but what of those who do not consider God to be the "father", as you put it, of man? What of those who do not acknowledge his position? Would they...no, could they be consider his children regardless of their beliefs? What I meant by my previous statement was that God's wrath cannot match a mortal father's, in the context that God only seems to show his wrath when disobeyed or a great grievence is done against him, not when you blatantly tell him to go stick his thumb up his ass. I had once said to the heavens, "Hey, God! I heard there are seven words you take offense to. I think they were: 'FUCK! ASSHOLE! CUNT! BASTARD! DICK! MEECROB! SHHIIIIITT!" ......Ten seconds later, a sixteen wheeler comes straight towards me doing forty with the Jesus fish on the front bumper. Do you kind of see my point now? He only lashes out at those who disobey or insult him.

Nykl Dormir.

Hello all,
I came across a very interesting article that shines light on the Arabic verison of the Lilith Legend. Amazingly this is from a magazine in India.

From DNA – Daily News and Analysis
Adam and his dust-mate
Tuesday, October 10, 2006 21:05 IST

...At the first Adam was male and female in one body, man on one side, woman on the other. In due time the female part separated from the male, and became a perfect woman; Adam remained a perfect man, and the couple mated.

But they were not happy, as the female refused to submit to the male, saying they were made of the same dust, and he had no right to order her about. So she was turned out of Paradise, and, consorting with Iblìs, became the mother of devils. She is called ‘El-Karìneh’ by the Arabs, and ‘Lilith’ by the Jews generally; ‘El-Brûsha’ by the Sephardim, or Spanish Jews...

Folk-lore of the Holy Land — Moslem, Christian and Jewish, by JE Hanauer (1909).

These's are my thoughts ; All "Bible" storys are stolen from other faiths. Read 101 myth's of the bible (I think that's right) , and the story of lilith is very old. Read the bible don't worship it ( The golden calf is Ba'al.

Lilith is described as refusing to assume a subservient role to Adam during sexual intercourse and so deserting him ("She said, 'I will not lie below,' and he said, 'I will not lie beneath you, but only on top. For you are fit only to be in the bottom position, while I am to be the superior one.'"). Lilith promptly uttered the name of God, took to the air, and left the Garden, settling on the Red Sea coast.
Two important observations should be made here: Lilith left the Garden of her own accord, before the Fall of Man, and is without Original Sin. She knows the name of God, making her an extremely powerful, and perhaps unique, cosmological being.
Lilith then went on to mate with Samual and various other demons she found beside the Red Sea, creating countless lilin. Adam urged God to bring Lilith back, so three angels were dispatched after her. When the angels, Senoy, Sansenoy, and Semangelof, made threats to kill one hundred of Lilith's demonic children for each day she stayed away, she countered that she would prey eternally upon the descendants of Adam and Eve, who could be saved only by invoking the names of the three angels. She did not return to Adam.

In one version, amulets were hung around newborns necks inscribed with the names of the three Angels, for only they could stop Lillith from preying on the innocent lives.

Lilith also appears in other versions as a night demon. She is often identified as the mother of all incubi and succubi, a legend that arose in the Middle Ages. Lilith is also sometimes considered to be the paramour of Satan.

Here comes counterargument;p

How can you not taking a look at
mithraism the most ancient in this
universe before anything?

Those hebrew came way after,
We are descendant of cain,not this lilith.
remember,cain had sex with beast,
that is why we have body hairs from,
for lucifer it is angel named azazel,
azazel involved with azu which is one of
arch angel.never heard of lilith before
until i heard of this white wolf RPG game.
My point is where nothing says about
lilith on mithraism so far,all we can talk
inside of fantasys.once again all religions
came after the mithraism.do not forget
who is pioneer.

Well I guess anything is possible. I have not heard much of this but am very curious to learn more. I enjoy the read of the others who have responded to this one.

well i feel when it comes to lilith u can really think what u want i myself think she is down in hell most of the time and comes to play her lil games with the offspring of adam when she feels fit

I agree with phoenixdarkraven why wouldnt she try to come back and toment adams children? Hell seems to be the only chance of payback for her dont you think

Lillith was a Diety in ancient Sumeria. She had nothing to do with Vampirism, no realtion at all.
As for the realtion to Adam, as far as I'm aware she was their first child.

Thought so.
Thanks for information,MistressSiobhan.
For adam,he is in heaven above when
his tasks completed in this planet.
Once again,we are children of cain,not adam.

The Sumerian Entity is a female demon called Lillith. Her first “appearence” was in the myth of Inanna and the hullupu tree. In that legend, Lillith is called a “dark maid” who lives in the trunk of the hullupu tree, (a tree that the goddess Inanna wanted to make her throne), and is little more that a nuisance to the goddess.
Since the myths introduction, Lillith was viewed as a creature of evil, cast out by the gods. The first appearence of Lillith was definately not Vampiric. she would later be considered a succubus, but by other cultures, and especially the peope of Mesopotamia were concerned, Lillith was not a Vampire.

ive herd a few stories of lilith ive herd she was adams first wife but sinnec & was destroyed, ive herd that adam secretly had an affair w/ her but she ate most of her children & those she did not were demons, ive heard she rules a certain level of hell beleived to be a drem world, in other words ive herd alot but still willing to here what everyone has to say about it or anything new that may come up...

Oh hell, this topic has been done so many times. I've posted stuff on lilith as well in the past.

Yet, the rumor of her being the "Queen of Vampires" is just some make believe bs.

She is a demoness and it even says t hat in the five books of moses.

This thread has been automatically closed for length.