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mtsoul77
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00:01:47 Jun 05 2007
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I’m looking for everyone’s opinions on Aleister Crowley. I have 2 questions:

1. Was he a mad-man or a genius?
2. If a person only had time in their life to read one book by or about Crowley, which book would you suggest?




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TheCryingDutchess
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00:08:56 Jun 05 2007
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Sadly, many madmen are geniuses...I suppose there is a fine line to walk. As for reading material by or on Crowley, you might want to start with any and all earlier works and then move on to the more modern views. It's just a was to see transformation (and unspoken similarities) of views then and now.



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STABB666
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00:10:37 Jun 05 2007
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I would suggest that by modern standards, he was mad, but it is entirely dependant upon perspective and understanding of what he was trying to achieve.

To attempt to single out one specific piece of work which encapsualtes a definitive image of his message, would be folly.

Each is an individual facet and intrinsic part of the whole. You may as well as ask which face of the diamond shines most brightly.



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mysticwinds
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00:15:09 Jun 05 2007
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I read his book 4. he has many interesting questions like what did Jesus and god talk about after his ressurection before he came back? When moses was on the mountain doing the 10 commandments what did they talk about? to my understanding he was a coke fiend.



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Trivia
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00:20:12 Jun 05 2007
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I had no knowledge of who Crowley was until I read your question. I have been reading ever since. Thank you for opening a new branch of study for me!

I do not believe he was a mad man. I believe he was a man who knew what was in his heart. I do not have to agree with him...but I do respect him.



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mtsoul77
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00:24:22 Jun 05 2007
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you're welcome Trivia! always happy to spread the words of Crowley to the unknowing souls :P



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Renae
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01:26:34 Jun 05 2007
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Crowley was absolutely delicious. madmen are the ones who draw the lines between genius and insane. the very blurry, undefined line. Poem time (im gona put this in my journal) by Aleister Crowley:

Touch me; I shudder and my lips turn back
Over my shoulder if so be that thus
My mouth may find thy mouth, if aught there lack
To thy desire, til love is one with us.


When thy warm sweat should leave me cold,
And my worn soul find out no bliss
In the obscenities I kiss,
And the things shameful that I hold.
My nostrils sniff the luxury
Of flesh decaying, bowels torn
Of festive worms, like Venus, born
Of entrails foaming like the sea.
Yea, thou art dead. Thy buttocks now
Are swan-soft, and thou sweatest not;
And hast a strange desire begot
In me, to lick thy bloody brow;
To gnaw thy hollow cheeks, and pull
Thy lustful tongue from out it's sheath;
To wallow in the bowels of death,
And rip thy belly, and fill full
My hands with all putridities;
To chew thy dainty testicles;
To revel with the worms in Hell's
Delight in such obscenities;
To pour within thine heart the seed
Mingled with poisonous discharge
From a swollen gland, inflamed and large
With gonorrhoea's delicious breed;
To probe thy belly, and to drink
The godless fluids, and the pool
Of rank putrescence from the stool
Thy hanged corpse gave, whose luscious stink
Excites these songs sublime. The rod
Gains new desire; dive, howl, cling, suck,
Rave, shreik, and chew; excite the fuck,
Hold me, I come! I'm dead! My God!



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SomethingNew
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01:31:15 Jun 05 2007
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If I were to judge him by that poem- I would say, disgusting. Find the beauty in it if you can- I can't.


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Renae
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01:36:36 Jun 05 2007
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To each their own :)

Actually, that poem is disgusting.... but, what can you expect from a man whom others called the most evil there ever was?



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SororSF
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01:46:13 Jun 05 2007
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Aleister Crowley is my bitch. And I worship him.
But anyways, he went technically insane much later in life after failing to complete the very complicated AbraMelin Ritual. That's just technical. The rest you can decide for yourself.

The latest edition of Book of Lies has a great intro on him, as does Book Four. But to get to know anything about Crowley, I would suggest The Confessions of Aleister Crowley : An Autobiography by Aleister Crowley, John Symonds, and Kenneth Grant.


Crowley is so complicated, reading one book by him, I will go ahead and tell you, will do no good unless you plan on being a Thelemite, in which case, Book of the Law, or Liber Al vel Legis, is close enough.

Book of Lies, for example, is a series of jokes and serious thoughts. But you'd never know which was which without an in depth study of the qabbalah, ancient representation of numbers, and the goetia. Book Four is very similar. Moonchild is a great read, but like Diary of a Drug Fiend, completely impractical, unless you plan to be a Crowleyite - in which case - go crazy.

777 is a great book by Crowley, as it The lesser Key of Solomon. 777 will be easier if you have in depth knowledge of numbers and the qabbalah.

Crowley's definitely not simple, and any short answer about him is probably nil to worthwhile.



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SororSF
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01:51:32 Jun 05 2007
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On the poem - most people can't handle Crowley, period. Anyone who's terribly dogmatic find him disgusting, but what higher could you expect from dogmas?

Aleister Crowley changed his full name so that the sum of the letters woul add up to 666, and took to the name, "The Great Beast," Since it was what his mother called him in his younger years. His father abandoned him at a young age, and his mother died, and their is little doubt that he was most likely sexually abused as a Child.

But to all ye wiccans, know that your father Gardner got most of his stuff from inspiration and direct quotations of Crowley. Even your rede was not inspired by Gardner nor is it present in his books, but in Liber Al vel Legis by Crowley: "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. Love is the law, Love under will." The first female wiccan writer switched it to harm ye none. and the do what ye must, and so forth.

Anyways, you who practice any form of Wicca or even respect it owe a lot more respect to Crowley. Sure, he's disgusting. I'll be the first to say that, But like I said, read a few of his books, and you'll find a brilliant and very enlightened man underneath those sherades.



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SuicideDoll
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01:53:50 Jun 05 2007
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Aleister Crowley was a brilliant man, there's no doubt about that. His impact on the world of occult and magick cannot be denied.

I am far from an expert on Crowley, but I do hope to read his book "Moonchild" soon, which is said to contain his side of the story regarding his relationship with MacGregor Mathers (together the two re-wrote the Keys of Solomon, magick dealing with conjuring and summoning of spirits). But that's just a personal preference - as for which books are most recommended, I agree with TheCryingDutchess' suggestion of starting with his early works and going from there.



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SomethingNew
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02:00:47 Jun 05 2007
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It's hard for me to care much for drug addicted, racist, sexist people. It's hard for me to look beyond these kinds of things. I can't find it in myself to see any beautiful things he left behind, or any lessons. I don't think I am missing out by having no influence on my life from this man.

When I read or hear his name- I think, 'peculiar'. Then I just think of nothing good. I do not have to agree or respect him.

To me he is a product of conservative radical parents... it's easy to see why he flew in a 'different' direction, perhaps the same... depending on your point of view.

I don't find any 'enlightenment' even bestowed upon him. How enlightened could he be if in fact his final words were in fact - "I am perplexed." ???

I don't see this 'love' he spoke of in what he's left behind.


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LordFangor
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02:02:18 Jun 05 2007
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The Confession of Aleister Crowley, An autohagiography edited by John Symonds and Kenneth Grant, 1969 would be a great one to read- I have had it for many years!



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mtsoul77
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02:10:39 Jun 05 2007
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thank you for the wonderful information SororSF.....

I'm sure anyone who didn't have a clue who Crowley is is much more interested in finding out now (I hate having a double is in a sentence!)

just to clear the air - by starting this thread, I'm not implying that I have never read Crowley's works, because I have. I just thought I would try to introduce a new and exciting topic to the forum, and what could possibly be more exciting then this??? I figured it would be good for at least one heated debate :D



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mtsoul77
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02:12:08 Jun 05 2007
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hmmm.....opposing views??? maybe now we'll get that debate!



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SororSF
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02:20:13 Jun 05 2007
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To keep the air clear, I'd like for people who have heated and violent opinions on either side to message each other (or me!) about it, as I'm always up for talking about crowley - like or dislike.

I do however understand the negative connotations surrounding Crowley, though I despise the closemindedness that surrounds him. It remind me of the old, "Satanist eat babies" diatribe. Very annoying, and though, I said I can understand, because whereas satanists do not have human sacrifices, Crowley did have the Abbey of Thelema, and if you're confused, let's just suffice it to say there was agoat involved. Watch what you say about it though, as I love Crowley discussions, and don't want this thread closed for obscenity.



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BloodxXxOverDose
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02:24:55 Jun 05 2007
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(1) mad man i think not the great beast is more fitting he was a man that was way ahead of his own time and created a area for others to add to i think he is very important in historical nature concerning magick and the power of evoking spirits and demons etc...
(2) the book 777 is the best besides the book of the law which is a awsome read.



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SomethingNew
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02:26:04 Jun 05 2007
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I read those things in research- because I look things up even when I don't like them :) Some of those things I found on (dare I type it) Wikipedia.

I've also read The Book of Law. I know the study of the book is forbidden, and it is wise to destroy the copy after the first reading :D

I can agree But ye, o my people, rise up & awake!... it's what I think I should be doing while I am awake that might be different ;)


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BloodxXxOverDose
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02:33:35 Jun 05 2007
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forbidden by some...a way of life for others.many men have come and gone with only their works left behind only to fall to myths and legends but i see aliester crowley as a gift to the world who delivered many magnificent things that only one with the true knowlede of understanging can know what he meant.



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lavisbre
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02:33:54 Jun 05 2007
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Aleister Crowley was a genus, his work was all good, till a point in his life when England didn’t support him and he wrote for a germen magazine. He was labeled the most evil man alive because of it (news papers and there drama) … well it was the world war 2. he died poor and lost. the marker of his demise was seen to be the great work he did on Solomon’s key, he was interrupted and called back and never closed the portals it is believed.

im working on the same thing



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BloodxXxOverDose
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02:45:17 Jun 05 2007
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i don't know about contradicting i think pretty much all of his works are all on the same guidelines and also feel everyone has their own opinions but that goes with out a doubt for almost anything now days.



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Trivia
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03:11:21 Jun 05 2007
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Wow this post is moving fast. I want to comment on the poem...

I saw the beauty of the poem immediately. It is about Le Petite Mort...the little death that orgasm is described as.

Thank you all for your information and the debates going on here. I am learning constantly!



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SomethingNew
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03:33:30 Jun 05 2007
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The best way to learn is to pick up the books themselves.


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SomethingNew
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03:35:54 Jun 05 2007
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That's actually a pretty vague description. He was much more interestingly odd than that. I'd be offended if I was him :)


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Trivia
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03:40:38 Jun 05 2007
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That was interesting. I totally believe in free will and will often greet nature.



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BloodxXxOverDose
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03:51:05 Jun 05 2007
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i have to say that google has to be probably the best place on the internet if anyone would like to learn more about this subject.
www.google.com



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SomethingNew
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03:55:06 Jun 05 2007
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Well yeah... google is how you find things online. I am wondering if people would venture to find things in libraries? Or even better- if you prefer to use the internet... you just might find entire Crowley texts- HIS work, not what someone wrote about him- biased in one direction or the other.


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FraterRath
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1. I'd have to say a little bit of both would apply. (and once again. there's the whole pre Abra-Melin Crowley, and post Abra-Melin Crowley)
One thing I find is he was a "genius" of publicity.
2. As for a good books.
"Magick without Tears" is a fantastic read.
as well as "The Book of the Law".
(not to mention all the various "Equinox" texts...as long as you have a good chunk of change to spend)
And if you're really curious, I'd have to say, why dont you just try invoking him and ask him yourself.
"Hey Crowley, were you crazy, or a genius?"



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SomethingNew
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05:38:50 Jun 05 2007
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...all mystics have written nonsense, and what sense they have written is so far untrue.


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CryingMist
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05:58:00 Jun 05 2007
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from what I am reading so fare I am not sure ether way, if I a gonna read the guy's work or if I will just burn it...seems like the views and taughs of a genius or a demonic man are so close at times who can really tell them apart? No one I think but the man himself. Sorry but on this I think I'll just wait a little more before prononcing my side.



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dragonspawn
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06:28:50 Jun 05 2007
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confessions of a drug fiend ..... that is the one I would read if I could only read one of his books .



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dragonspawn
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06:29:33 Jun 05 2007
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sorry this goes with the above post I also think he was a mad man



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Jens
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08:01:11 Jun 05 2007
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Being that the line between madness and genius is very fine... I would say I am not at liberty to judge Mr. Crowley.

The only reference to a Mr. Crowley I have is from the Ozzy song about the man. Pardon me.



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luna1sierra
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08:11:09 Jun 05 2007
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perhaps best described as a "mixed bag "....alot of the scandal around him was because of his lifestyle. these days its very common for couples to live together and not be married. back then , it wasnt. these days its common for a woman to work and support/help support her partner. back then , nope. in his personal life he was only ahead of his time. 777 is good , as is the book of the law..my personal favorite is the hunchback/soldier lecture(s).



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Mayari
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09:54:44 Jun 05 2007
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Aleister Crowley. He is one of the pioneers of the western occultism. Even if not all the concepts and principles were not his, a lot of his methodology is in use today. I haven't read a ton of his works, but I do work with his Thoth Tarot Deck and have found his symbolism to be highly compatible with my own. My most insightful readings for the Self as a God come from that deck.

I admire the man, though he be mad. It has been stated already in this thread that madness and genius many times go hand in hand and the dividing line between them is a thin strand in a dark room to say the least.


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dragonspawn
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09:58:18 Jun 05 2007
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aleister crowley- the book of lies.
the battle of the ants.


that is not which is.
the only word is silence.
the only meaning of that word is not.
thoughts are false.
fatherhood is unity disguised as duality.
peace implies war.
power implies war.
harmony implies war.
victory implies war.
glory implies war.
foundation implies war.
Alas! for the kingdom wherein all these are at war.


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BloodxXxOverDose
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14:58:39 Jun 05 2007
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aliester crowley-a corner stone to todays metaphysical practices.i have not seen evidence where he proclaims to be a satanist but see and hear many individuals claiming that he was one,i do believe that he was one of the greater occult figures and has earned his own spot in history and has helped open the mind of individual to develop his methods even more so than he did. aliester crowley was a man with a dream and proclaimed to be the great beast 666. member of AA and OTO untill they lost focus in what was important. a visionary yes.i believe he lived from 1875-1947..and knew thee enochian language quite well.



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SomethingNew
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16:28:46 Jun 05 2007
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No one commented on my last post. I will assume some may think I am being a smart ass- not so. I was actually quoting Crowley himself: ...all mystics have written nonsense, and what sense they have written is so far untrue.


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TheCloverOfSerenity
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16:35:43 Jun 05 2007
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no hun nobodies ignoring you or thinks you a smart ass most just scroll down to the bottom to see the last post and the first so its not that its that they dont see you i get that to



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SomethingNew
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16:52:18 Jun 05 2007
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I didn't mean that comment to sound vain... I was just wondering if anyone knew what I was talking about really.

I've been trying to push the idea of reading his works vice listening to Ozzy or an online bio.


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mearhinas
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Crowley was not a mad man he was pure genius. Any great mind that does not conform to society is classed as Mad. Crowley is one of these beings.

Mearhinas



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Renae
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18:35:36 Jun 05 2007
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Here's a fun fact: the poem I posted earlier was in fact taken from a collection titled "White Stains" (who'da thunk it?)

"White Stains," which alone would be enough to distinguish Crowley's name for posterity, was privately published under a pseudonym in 1898 and almost immediately banned. Legend has it that the covers on the original printing of 100 copies were adorned with white stains issued from the loins of the Beast himself.



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SomethingNew
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19:02:05 Jun 05 2007
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If that is true... it only further soldifies my view of the guy.


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Renae
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19:04:43 Jun 05 2007
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I got this from a site that puts Crowley in a barbarian view. You can tell this article was written by a biased individual, but what isn't these days? Anyway, he may be messed up, but I still think he's an inspiration for many.



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Tzaddi
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19:46:48 Jun 05 2007
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Ah, Crowley...The man was a genius, although probably a bit mad, as we all are. His writing is pretty deep, but I must say, "The Book of Thoth" is really good, in depth, but good. His Thoth tarot deck is also a must have,absolutely beautiful.



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Trivia
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19:47:44 Jun 05 2007
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Indigo...you and this entire thread has made me aware of an individual whose works I want to read...not listen to in an Ozzy song. :)



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SomethingNew
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19:51:27 Jun 05 2007
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Good :) I don't care for him as a person- but there is a LOT to read that is interesting. He personally didn't challenge my spiritual views- but I think I have insight into why he went his direction.

I've found several links where entire Crowley texts are available online.


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STABB666
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19:57:31 Jun 05 2007
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I especially like the first seven chapters of 'Magick', where he explains meditation in such detail and clarity, that I find it to be the most definitive work on the subject which I've read so far.



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Renae
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20:02:38 Jun 05 2007
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Can you put a couple of those links on here for the rest of us? I don't have the means of visiting a bookstore/library for a while (hence why I'm on here).



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SomethingNew
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20:08:18 Jun 05 2007
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It's surely not the same. But- I actually found a link that has scanned pages of texts in his own handwriting. I will work on compiling all the links from my bookmarks this evening.


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STABB666
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20:14:30 Jun 05 2007
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Oooh, you tease!

:P

I tried to upload some to the library, but I ran out of space....



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Renae
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20:18:28 Jun 05 2007
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Thanks for getting the links together.



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menerfecious
menerfecious
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20:19:59 Jun 05 2007
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Alister craowley was a genius in my opinion. I find that some of his work would indeed be viewed by many as distasteful, but in general i would very much agree with STABB.

I definately agree that to try and decide on just one book that he wrote would indeed be irresponsible and foolish, there are so many books and so much work that he wrote in such a way that they would enrapture anyone who would read that had the same or similar beliefs to him. It is almost a story of his entire life with absolutely no holes barred.

A great Great man that entirely too many feared. I do not think of him as evil, twisted or insane......I believe he was severely misunderstood in so many ways. He knew exactly what he was doing and he knew just what he was trying to gain from what he did....that is not the actions of an insane man.....immoral...yes maybe.....evil???? Not in my book.



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STABB666
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20:22:53 Jun 05 2007
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In the roleplaying game 'Vampire: The Masquerade', one might associate him with the Malkavian clan.

He has answers, but few will understand the questions.



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luna1sierra
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21:28:05 Jun 05 2007
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the problem with public libraries...they are public. books do not always come back. students steal them , born-agains burn them..ect. it does require money and/or effort to find some of his writings. i believe he wrote moonchild (?) and i havent seen a copy of that in about 10yrs. ( my copy was borrowed .....)



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RavenKnight
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22:57:24 Jun 05 2007
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1, Genius...
2, Read everything...



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angelblood07
angelblood07

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22:59:28 Jun 05 2007
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sadly a madman i think every book



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LordFangor
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00:46:54 Jun 06 2007
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The book I mentioned above is best read on a dark, cool, rainy night while drinking hot tea with lemon. :)



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mtsoul77
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01:04:22 Jun 06 2007
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mmmm....hot tea with lemon, sounds tasty :D

I wanted to say that I am thrilled at the wonderful response to this thread. I felt that it would be a good topic, but didn't realize that so many people felt so passionately about Mr. Crowley. Whether the passions be positive or negative, it matters not. Knowing that people have such strong beliefs on anything is spectacular. With some of the threads I've seen lately, I was beginning to wonder :P



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Trivia
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01:29:09 Jun 06 2007
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I have followed the entire thread. This is only the fourth time I have done this.

Excellent information.



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SororSF
SororSF

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02:26:07 Jun 06 2007
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Moonchild is available readily at most Barnes&Noble and Borders bookstores. If not, they can order it for you for around 19.95$US.



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luna1sierra
luna1sierra

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02:41:36 Jun 06 2007
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?!really! very cool, thank-you



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Fanman70
Fanman70

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03:46:59 Jun 06 2007
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he was strange a life time serching for long sexual gratafction ... i wonder if he found it..



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ursulahw
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17:42:27 Jun 08 2007
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I dont think he could be one without the other, mad/genius.



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chedipe
chedipe
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17:52:30 Jun 08 2007
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In my opinion Mr Crowley was a man before his time, I wouldn’t say mad I would say eccentric. But I would say genius. Amodo Crowley also has written some interesting books, these are much easier to digest than the ones of his farther.
love him or loath him, he has brought much knowledge to us!!



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darkdeadandbloody
darkdeadandbloody

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17:57:57 Jun 08 2007
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i knew nothing about the man before reading this thread, but i would like to say that from the information i have recieved, it would appear as though he was quite intelligent. thanks for bringing him to my attention- i plan on purchasing one of his books this weekend, any suggestions? send me a message and tell me which one to get plz



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STABB666
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18:41:38 Jun 08 2007
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darkdeadandbloody,

If you read through the thread, you will find suggestions on what to read and why.



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mtsoul77
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21:00:59 Jun 08 2007
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I'm thrilled to know that I was able to help bring Aleister Crowley into view for so many people who have never heard of him.

I realized though, that while I've been perfectly content to sit back and watch what others have to say, I never answered my own questions. My opinions and suggestions aren't much different than those of everyone else, but I will give them to you anyway.

Mad man or genius? Definitely a genius, just a very eccentric person. I do have to comment on his drug addiction. I can't condone the use of drugs, in this day and age, but it was something completely different during Crowley's time. He didn't use drugs for the high, he used them to seek deeper visions. Don't jump to conclusions, I'm not saying this is right, just that it worked for him.

I also have a tough time suggesting just one book. And as such, have this to say:

For those who want to learn of Crowley without reading his works, I would suggest "Do What Thou Wilt: A life of Aleister Crowley" By Lawrence Sutin.

For those who want to read something written by Crowley, I have three suggestions:

- Book of the Law
- Book of Lies
- Konx Om Pax: Essays in Light



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QueenLilith
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21:31:27 Jun 08 2007
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I think Mr Crowley was both mad and a genius. he wrote some really great books and I have enjoyed reading them immensely through the years.

if i could have just one Crowley book to read i think it would have to be the book of thoth.



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Serenatous
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21:49:10 Jun 08 2007
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1. I think he was a mad man.
2. Wouldn't buy a book by him cuz i said in answer number 1 he is a mad man.



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basilcollins
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22:38:26 Jun 08 2007
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i think he was a little of both



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thedarkx
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23:10:47 Jun 08 2007
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Crowley was a mad man with a strong magnetic personality



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RavenKnight
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23:11:15 Jun 08 2007
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Aleister Crowley was one of the greatest magick practitioners of his time, and he was misunderstood...



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Panthra
Panthra

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00:54:06 Jun 09 2007
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Well For A Man To Walk Into SomeOnes Home And Just Take A Shit On There Floor
((( THE MAN IS A GENIUS )))



And As Far As A Book To Read
I`D SAY THE FIRST ONE HE WROTE FIRST
THEN ALL THE REST



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SomethingNew
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00:57:08 Jun 09 2007
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All it takes to be a genius is to shit on someone's floor?

Well- I have been saying all along that dogs were a hell of a lot smarter than they're given credit for.


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XxBlueBloodxX
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01:06:52 Jun 09 2007
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I don't know very much about him at all but I think that The Ozzy Song Mr. Crowley is referring to him. Isn't it?



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SomethingNew
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01:08:32 Jun 09 2007
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Yes, that song is about him.

If you are interested in him I suggest you go to his own work, though.


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Vampiress25
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00:33:42 Jun 11 2007
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Well from what I have read in this forum (forgive my ignorance on the subject) he seemed to be on the edge of insanity and geniusness. I hope to read his books in the future to gain more knowledge on the subject.



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DemianA
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03:04:08 Jun 11 2007
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Crowley had some involvement with Gerald Gardner, there is little evidence they met. Some of the Gardinarian rituals have verses from the Gnostic Mass and other verses, like "An harm ye none, do as you will" which of course resembles "Do what thou wilte shall be the whole of the law". Doreen Valiente re wrote Gardners Book of Shadows, and may have deleted other material from Crowley.
The "Book of the Law", Libre AL, has a lot of confusing passages. "The Comment" is considered one of these. Crowley was noted for putting things in his writing to baffle and confuse, jokes if you will.
All of his works were in limited availability until the mid 70s because his philosophy was considered too anti Christian. The Ordo Templi Orientis was resurrected in the US, and so much of his work was again published.



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xKittenLovecraftx
xKittenLovecraftx

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03:05:31 Jun 11 2007
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All genius men were misunderstood....
Quite saddening, really..



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poesraven
poesraven

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03:27:58 Jun 11 2007
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agenuis that went mad. book of lies best.



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daemona
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05:45:31 Jun 11 2007
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There is a difference between genious and madmen? I think not.

He was a brilliant and compelling writer. As for which book - pick one! They are wonderful.



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Vampiress25
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06:11:39 Jun 11 2007
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I think there is a reason why there is such a similarity between geniuses and madmen... It is because the smarter you are, the more you realize how crazy things actually are. People that are (how do I say this without hurting anyone's feelings..) umm ignorant look at only the basic things in life and that is all. Very simple individuals... The more complexities that one involves themselves with, the crazier the mind becomes.



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DemianA
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07:02:45 Jun 11 2007
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Genius is but constructive insanity



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DarkCeltic
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03:20:51 Jun 15 2007
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Either way , he was up to something uniqe ...



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mtsoul77
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19:34:47 Jun 16 2007
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yes, he definitely was. I wonder if there will ever be another person like him. I certainly hope so.



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pandemonium
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10:03:56 Jun 19 2007
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"They called me mad, and I called them mad, and damn them, they outvoted me. " - Nathaniel Lee (17th century playwright)

madness or genius depends upon each persons individual views. nobody will ever be considered a genius by everyone, and the same holds true for madness. i personally believe that aleister crowley was a genius, but thats just my opinion.

the best book to read? i would have to say all of them, but if you really only could pick one, go with 'the book of the law"



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RavenKnight
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11:13:06 Jun 19 2007
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Like i said before Crowley was a genius, some may think he was a mad man but look at all he did for magick + he was a poet and mountain climber, and with everything i have read about him and things that he has wrote about himself he seems like a great guy that people misunderstood...



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thegothprincess
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11:43:13 Jun 19 2007
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a genius but he work led whole lot of poepl into the realm of magic



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cadrewolf
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17:52:03 Jun 22 2007
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the book of lies, definetly a genuis gone astray



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Apocapus
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18:16:04 Jun 22 2007
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I wonder if that cottage where he Murdered his Wife and Domestic Staff....Still stands because that's where he supposedly summoned all those demons.

I think If you want any answers....someone will have to explore that place.



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SororSF
SororSF

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18:20:05 Jun 22 2007
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Well, I guess it's either listen to what people say on here or research it yourself, but IMR:

Crowley and Gardner not only met, but worked closely together to popularize magick in the everyday world - it was a mission Crowley set Gardner upon, and most of what Gardner wrote was inspired by Crowley. The first person to ever put into print the overly quoted phrase "An it harm none, do what ye will" was the first female writer after Gardner (whose name unfortunately escapes me at this time).
So you could theoretically, give Crowley something like 80% credit for starting Wicca, considering, without his texts or encouragement to Gardner, there would have still only been shamans up to this day and age.

Other than that, he astoundingly magnified and expanded the use of the qabbalah for practical magick and numerology.
the reason most people don't understand book 4, book of lies, 777, and the lesser key of solomon is because they haven't the slightest inkling of how numerology of mythology in the qabbalah works.

to understand why crowley was a genius, you would have to jump over that hurdle first. otherwise, all you see is a bunch of jibberish (as do uneducated rednecks see when looking at the carvings on egyptian tombs).

I'm personally insulted for Crowley by the overwhelming apathetic responses including "Don't know/care who he is," and "He contributed nothing practical to society." Granted, Austin Osman Spare did a lot more for practical magick, you have to give credit to Crowley for popularizing it by his own shock value and using Gardner to sent Wicca spiraling uncontrollably into the Western Front.

Once again, genius (until post-Abra-Melin phase) and Book of Lies. Of course, this will mean nothing if you don't know anything about the numerology used in Jewish Mysticism.

Sorry for spelling/capitalization... feeling lazy. P.s. Crowley would be thrilled to be called a sick malevolent pervert who degraded society.

And Crowley being my bitch and me worshiping him is this little contrasting dualistic dichotomy that I enjoyed making - I'm not actually a Crowleyite.



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VR System
VR System

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18:20:05 Jun 22 2007
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This thread has been automatically closed for length.



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• • • • THIS THREAD IS CLOSED • • • •
•  Closed by VR System on Jun 22 2007  •

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