The Ultimate Vampire Resource and Directory

I was just curious as to how many people here have heard of the Black Veil, and how many live by it's code of ethics? I just recently heard about it, and am going to go look it up and learn more about it myself.

Yes, I have heard of it. It was recently updated.... there was another thread a while back on this... check this site:
http://www.apocalypse.org/pub/u/hilda/blackveil.html
That is the older version....
Better site: http://www.sanguinarius.org/articles/black_veil_3.shtml

Yeah I heard of it .. Seen a documentary this weekend.. "Vampire Secrets"

lol.. I was gonna post a thread on this to see if anyone else had watched or heard of it ..

The recent Black Veil has been updated do to recent events, some involving those who went over board with the Mascarade..(sp) , and brought the wrong attention to the Vampire life in general.. So to avoid harrassment from the public eye it was "revamped" ..lol.. hope to hear more on this ..

Yes, I had heard of it through that documentary as well. The show was interesting in and of itself. I did not like how they presented certain things, like "Vampire: The Masquerade", however most of it was very educational, and helpful in showing what vampires are today and how we got to that point. Well, I think so anyways. lol

You can find it here on VR.

I do think it has an interestig ethos tat is more concerned with moralit, instead of forcing me into religion, which is what I prefer.

I think it is a good code of ethics, but it isn't everything to me- btu I do respect it fo what it is.

I agree with you Echo, there is no problem with having a strong code of ethics, but no one should be "forced" into a certain religion or spiritual path.

That is so strange because I, too, saw the Vampire Secrets documentary on the History Channel where the Black Veil was mentioned and discussed. I was going to post a thread on the documentary as a whole since it touched on a lot of different topics in regards to Vampires but, decided to check out this thread.

I learned a lot of different new things and I will probably buy the DVD that is available.

yes thank you dreams! I definitely want to learn more about this! Unfortunately I didn't have a chance to watch that documentary on the history channel. I would have loved to see it. Maybe I'll go and buy the dvd too :)

i know and use the veil on a day to day basis it is the written law for all vampiers thoes who do not upholde it are not keeping to the laws and giving thoes who do a bad name if you like i have a copy of it in my journel for all to see

Here is the scoop on the Black Veil...figured Sangi would have something on it in her terminology page. I already knew about this but she is usually very concise about what is what. If interested go to www.sanguinarius.org and click on terminology.

The Black Veil:
Also known as the "Thirteen Rules of Community". Composed by Michelle Belanger, Father Todd Sebastian and COVICA, this is a set of 13 common-sense guidelines for the Sanguinarium as well as the vampire community. It deals with such things as responsibility, etiquette, feeding practices, the lifestyle, discretion, etc. The Black Veil has undergone several major revisions since its first incarnation in 1997 in attempts to be made more applicable and palatable to the real vampire community and not just the Sanguinarium; in 2003, it was revised once again and cut down to just seven tenets.

********************************

It is not a given for the community...it is merely a suggestion. These people are of the newer age of vampyres and create rules, dogma and all sorts of things...its their choice but it doesn't mean anyone will follow it or may not create one of their own for their House, etc. The two people involved were well known because they write and one is very actively promoting a more social scene in NYC and because he is more in view has been interviewed many times and so has Michelle who may be a very nice person but they are just a small drop in the community and those that believe it has validity follow it and those who would rather follow their own personal ethics do. It doesn't make you part of any in crowd if you do or mention it.

Yes. It is a standard for behavior and a great tool for new people learning about who vampires are and how they should best conduct themselves, especially in public.

Yes, I have heard of the veil. Unlikely, to be followed any more than the Ten Commandements are likely to be followed

have heard of it also and well many do alter it and indeed at times the arguments cause more harm than good but it is still something to keep for your path.

I printed out a copy for myself to read, and was interested in some of the things it said. Most of it made sense to me, which to me breaks it down to more of a common sense guideline for those people who would walk around flaunting what they are. In a day and age where people should be respectful of other peoples lifestyles, it is still so dangerous to be so open that anyone will know what you are. I've had death threats because of what I am, so to me...the black veil is a way of saying "Hey, be careful of who you talk to, and make sure you can trust the people you do." Most of the doctrines or tenants or whatever you want to call them are simply common sense, that's all.

The black veil was written by a person i know nothing about, and they have no right to tell a person what they should be doing, so i do not follow it...

What I think is great about the veil is that it's a voluntary code of ethics (it says so right at the top), so they aren't technically telling anyone what to do. They are making a suggestion, and you can, as an individual, decide whether or not to follow it.

LovesEternalDeath,

I have been told, or read quite clear statements by several groups who subscribe to the veil, that failure to adhere could result in expulsion from said group, or even excommunication from the vampire community (or at least, that part of it which follows these 'rules').

Hmm...perhaps. There's no rule, or anything else saying that you have to be a part of those groups either though. *shrugs*

I'm not sure about the Black Veil, unless it is the documentary shown on the History Channel, for which I think may be the same everyone is talking about. I do enjoy watching documentaries like the ones for the Vampires. I just don't like how they make it seem so evil and like its something awful in our society nowadays.

STABB666 has made very good points and his opinions are close to mine as well..
I dont follow every "rule" to the T... I do have my own way of life but i do adhere to the majority of The Black Vail.
I do not preach to tohers and they ways of life or thinking, it is not for me to do.
In other words, I mind my own...

I agree with what Orthis said, they should be followed night to night, but those that don't follow should be punished.

jamesreven,

What sort of punishment would you propose?

And how would you suggest implementing it?

Also, who gets to judge who has broken the veil 'laws'?

I've never felt the Black Veil was necessary; especially for those of us who live in the United States.

Vampirism is a condition I live with; it's something that I take measures to control (feeding) but it isn't a seperate entity from myself. I am a citizen of the United States - of a small town in Illinois, to be somewhat more exact. I figure, as long as I'm following THOSE laws, what do I need other laws?

My parents did their job well and I grew up ethically strong. I understand that killing is wrong because I don't have the right to end someone's life. I understand that I don't have the right to steal because that is depriving someone else of their belongings. I understand that I don't have the right to cause harm to others because...well, frankly, it just isn't nice and it infringes upon their right to safety.

Shouldn't the laws of common sense and our sovereign city/state/country be enough?

Now, I understand that there will always be those who abuse others, who harm others, who blab to others. Again, there are applicable laws - or people just think they're a nutter and treat them as such. Isn't that punishment enough?

I read the section in othis' journal about the black veil, it was very interesting. I found that the ethics and morals that the vampires go by are very respectable. I wish that I had seen the documentary, as well.

There was an awesome thread about this a few months ago, made awesome because someone, imagesinwords I think, actually emailed one of the creators of the Black Veil and posted her response in the thread.

I just tried to find it and I think the forum search is broken, because when I put in The Black Veil, it pulled up nothing, not even this thread. Anyone know why the search is broken, or if I'm just not using it correctly or something?

I very much believe and live by it. The co-author Michelle Belenger, is owner of House Kheperu.Her site is fantastic and worth a visit there. She is gifted writer and long standing elder in the OVC.
http://www.kheperu.org.

I think when Imagesinwords got Michelle Belanger to respond, it was both in regards to the Veil and the Codex itself. However, I don't really feel that Belanger's statements did much to add heft to an argument that either the Codex or the Veil was much more than creative writing by someone closely tied to the community of both vampires and those who played VtM.

Their are enough rules in life to follow, i will continue to live how i like the black veil is not my thing and if other people want to follow the rules go for it...

The Black Veil is indeed a very interesting code... I wish I had seen the documentary, so that I could put something more substantial here. But thanks everyone for all of the information! I have learned a lot so far :)

Its an interesting set of rules.. and this being the first i've heard of it, i will definately read up on it.. though I've got to agree that there are already enough rules in life

In March the Black Veil was again changed, and the "Metaphore of Blood" was introduced. Essentially, blood is no longer allowed to be shared by doners and Vampyres. The Sanguinarium web site will not print any post about the use of blood, and will excommunicate any of its members who continue the sanguine practices. These statements were authored by Father Sebastian as posted in the forum section of the website. The website is now closed to anyone who has not purchased "Going Forth By Day" published by the Sanguinarium, and sent another $13.00 to be admitted as a student into the StrigoiVii Order.

Well, that bit about www.sanguinarium.net being closed to those who aren't willing to buy products makes sense. Father Todd or Sebastian or whatever he calls himself these days always was just about the money.

I don't know Michelle, but I believe she is trying to do well for and by the community. I suppose sometimes we just get mixed up with the wrong crowd...

Oh well, FelixFelix. Can't say we didn't try.

Michelle Belanger is not even vampiric? I don't know where anyone would come to that conclusion- the woman has devoted her life to it and creating a resource for those who could not prior find it without paying money or joining a secret group.

Close ties to rpg? Absolutley. She openly states all of that in 'The Psychic Vampire Codex'. Before there was ever a a place for people of the vampire presuasion to be 'open' they all flocked to places where they could be as close to it as possible and act out in ways they could not take ownership of in public without problems. From the book:

While the game itself was based upon the fiction and heavily influenced by the novels of Anne Rice, it still attracted many isolated psychic vampires. The live-action version provided them with a social outlet where they could not openly adopt the identity of a vampire, even if this was only within the context of a game.

For the record, if you watched the documentary you will already be aware of this:

Michelle is in fact vampiric. She is a psi-vamp, who feeds off the psychic energies of others. She actually did this in front of the cameras for the documentary. She does live the lifestyle, therefore, she does know what she's talking about.

Indigo, does it not seem a tad bizarre that one would flock to games based on the fictional vampire when so many modern living vampires do everything in their power to maintain a strict wall between the fiction and the reality? What does that say about the community IF their vampiric nature led them not to studies of Reiki energy manipulation or psychic seminars but instead to roll playing games where they could pretend to be the undead?

I merely point out that using fictional vampire imagery and close association (and even resourcing) from RPGs only furthers to blur the line between fiction and reality with regards to modern living vampires. It does nothing to help modern living vampires attain anything even close to respect or acceptance and in fact increases the amount of people who think that all living vampires are in fact just role playing. It is not surprising that one finds Bellanger's original efforts at authorship centered around creative writing, vampire fiction, and the goth scene. The Codex and the Veil both (in my opinion) represent a real smart move from a writer whose success was marginal before finding this niche as a priestess and leader. Social vampirism.

And that is a very valid point of view from the information we have.

Indigo - I appreciate the consensus. I know I should temper my opinions but on this I tend to side with my gut and my powers of observation. Since gaining fame as a Priestess and as the writer of the Codex, Bellanger has created a cult of personality that has been used to gain access to relative fame in the goth music world, to restart her goth magazine, to begin writing more and publish more as well as interviews, photography and documentaries which really only serve to increase her personal fame and possibly fortune though I have less measure of her success in the monetary area.

I recognize those things as well. I think maybe in the beginning there was a desire to create a breakthrough reference point for people out there with no means of finding it 'free'. She tried with Temple of the Vampire only to be put off by being told she couldn't know anything about vampirism really, and the only way she could learn the 'true' ways was to join their temple and purchase their book. Being sworn to secrecy and the fees, she was put off by them, and they are put off by her. She obtained a bootleg copy of their bible to find their techniques were essentially the same- although their ethics were radically different.

With celebrity comes all those other nasty 'sins' like greed and the desire to keep it going. There is hardly ever a person who gets their name in lights then silently slips away.

Kheperu has their way of doing things- but they do not claim it is the ONLY way. they encourage people to find their own path, group, or even solitary life in their truth.

P.S. I am not a member of House Kheperu. :)

Yes of course my observations about Bellanger, the Codex and the Veil have little to do with Kheperu as a whole. Since I have no association with them I have nothing to base my opinions on with them. My opinions are essentially on the individuals and works I can read...and I'll leave the organizations to someone else unless their literature or websites peak my interest enough and their information is readily available.

I hear ya, Felix. I don't have any 'inside' knowledge myself. I only know what I have seen online and read in the book. I am not really arguing for or against Michelle Belanger. I recognize the validitity of her work, and the negative issues that have surfaced because of it. That's pretty much how it goes with anything though.

I follow a very similar set of rules. The Order of Infinite Light has its own code of ethics, Refered to as the Prism. But, by and large, it is something we all could learn and grow from.

IndigoBizarre,

If it is really the case that it is now a fee-paying option to access the Sanginarium information, then I believe that validates much of my opinion which we have discussed elsewhere.

Exploitation of a popular concept for personal gain. And as Felix said, fame, noteriety, are also 'benefits' of their presented image.

And so, where is the responsibility in all this, the leadership, the voice of reason?

Individuals and groups are running around with the Codex and Veil as some kind of bible, touting it as the only way that 'real' vampires should live.

Well, excuse me for disagreeing with their methods.

Any code of conduct is good as long as it doesn't "force" us to follow it to the last letter

I do follow the black veil.

Aha!

And here is a quite vociferous attack upon it, soon after it was published.

The statements made against it on the above forum, do have credence and I think there are those who may agree with many of the points made there.

Like many on here, I had heard vague references to the black veil as a child. Recently, I have been taught by my teacher the rules and meanings of the black veil and how they apply to my life. Since then, I have been striving to uphold the principles of the black veil so as to better my life and to avoid bringing shame to the vampire community.

I don't particularly care for the 10 commandments either...honor thy mother and father? Only if they deserve it. Covetiousness? I couldn't stop that just by wanting to. False idols...these days we could probably use that but only because we've got our heads so far up our celebrity's you know what's that we've turned them into godheads.

Anyway, I figure we're better off with:
"be responsible for your actions and try not to hurt each other in the process."

i also agree with you Echo, there is no problem with having a strong code of ethics, but no one should be "forced" into a certain religion or spiritual path.

Okay, so I try to follow the Black Veil, to the best of my abilities. Now I know that if I really wanted to get advice and guidance I probably wouldn't get it for 2 reasons:

1) I'll never pay for advice, especially when I've got VR, where there is a whole boat load of advice just waiting to be given.

2) I'm not perfect, I falter...often.

So, with that being said, I prefer to think of the Black Veil as a guidline, some good ideas that you either do or don't follow. I mean, I've gotten great advice from some of my friends here, so why would I go looking for it somewhere I have to pay? I feel more accepted on this site with all of you then I did in highschool or anywhere else I was supposed to fit in! lol I don't need the group support of those "houses" or whatever because I have VR and I'm happy here. :)

Well I feel that it should be taken as what it should be a guideline of how to live with honor and respect for those your around .. You can also have your own representation on what the Black Veil means as it may seem different to others as it does yourself .. I agree with STABB.. on many of the arguements above ..

Those of you that are unfamilar with what the Black Veil is I am positive you can locate it in the database..As far as it goes as a religious vampire foundation .. I myself dont get that inturpretation.. If you feel thats what you get out of its meaning or why it was created. what I get out of it is be mindful of who you let in cirlcle and to respect others .. And to lead not foryourself but to lead and think of others

I know that the black veil are rules that people can follow, but their are enough rules in life every time you turn around their are rules thrown at you, i can not see myself folloing more rules because i like a lifestyle, so that is the reason that i do not follow the black veil, if other people do it that is their buisness...

I have read the black Veil a long long time ago I didn't know they made a revised copy. About the show heres something everyone will like.

http://store.aetv.com/html/product/index.jhtml?id=76769

I live off of the basis for the Black Veil, along with keeping to as funny as this sounds the 6 traditions of the Masquerade

Keeping yourself to yourself
Being responsible for your actions.

Obeying the territorial codes in anothers domain
Being held accountable for all actions

Teaching those who you find worthy
Taking care of any problems that arise while in anothers territory, until you establish your own territory.


These are all very good ways to live a life, free from the negitivity and hatred, along with fear of the outside world.

(yes I know this is from a fantasy game. But funny enough, its all well researched and has very useful aplications, anyone who wishes to refute or flame me on this, can message me, but if you are that petty then rot and you will be blocked)

I guess I don't have much use for the black veil... codes, ethics, and religionisms don't apply well to my kind, I suppose.. or perhaps my detachment from what could be real is much more absolute than it should be...
D

i myself has no needs to follow the black veil.. to each there own. plus the rules that are now to many....

It's been a hot minute since I've read the Black Veil. I've known about it and have fallowed it for years o.o but I definitly agree that it's common sence stuff >.>

In the Coven of Eternal Chaos there is a Hall of Records..... with in it GrieviousDemon as posted the Black Veil.... if you haven't looked at any of the sites posted then you should go and check it out from my coven.... And yes we live by it!

It is merely a suggestion and it was basically written more for a couple of Houses and their side groups. These are both very young people to me and the idea has merit but it is their idea and it is nothing anyone has to follow nor is it any sort of gospel for the Vampyre community. Right now there is a petition up against Father Sebastian for many things and stealing the original idea from VTM. He has been labeled a plagairist by certain members of the community. I have no opinon on this and I feel people fuss too much about it and tend to sheep up about things like cults. It's an idea toward ethical standards but it by no means has to be followed. Michelle expanded on it. Individuals can make their own rules if they feel they need them. If you feel they work for you and you want to use them as an ethical example fine but I never could understand why all the hoopla about it. There are various versions now. One specifically for certain groups and one general one which I believe only has about seven segments to it. No one needs something like this unless they feel they cannot think for themselves. This is my opinion.

But the question is, are we sheep? You have given up many things, freedoms, sanctuary, peace beyond the night fallen shadows in the forests of our minds. But we have something, we have rules to govern the weak minded souls, and the minds of the stupid kine when the more zelous of us would rather we walked in the open, Well what are we who need such words of protection. We seek to abide in civilized worlds, where our visciousness and inner natures develop along the lines of the business savy. We do not need such antiquated laws and codes. But our children do. They need to learn their place before they walk in the open in ways the regular man cannot.

I have read it, and I live by it, You can find it on my profile.

I see alot of people disregarding the Black Veil because they may or may not like or agree with the people they perceive as responsible for coming up with this one set of rules...or guidelines. But perhaps one should take a moment to look simply at what is on the page and read it for what it is. There seems to be nothing terribly wrong, or even very constraining, about the codes set forth in the Black Veil. If you think about the world and how outsiders react to this sort of lifestyle, it makes perfect sense, and it helps the rest of us to get along with each other. By choosing to go along with certain social concepts and behaviors, it is not equal to having to swear an oath of fealty to the document's creator(s), it is simply using a little common sense and courtesy and trying to get along.

i find it interesting..even more interesting that it's been changed with time but i think most people in this culture tend to make up their own code of ethics.

GrieviousDemon,

I see the religious base as something which may not be an intention of the authors, but as a self-evolving function of the precepts contained within.

The whole idea is marketed in a similar fashion as the Judaic Ten Commandments, as 'pillars of the community' (assuming itself to speak on behalf of all involved in vampirism) and, is often used within a cultish assembly as a scriptural document.

The Black Veil is a nice guide line if your lost in the world but it's all really common sense to most. The family is a great idea in my opinion since there are people out there that just would not understand and sticking together just makes us stronger. The funny part to me is in the discretion. The feeding in private is a given but talking about it in the open is funny because here we all are on a web site that any one in the world can see at anytime. Most people I don't think would believe you anyway.

LadyNightdancer,

I disagree with your statement that it is both 'merely a suggestion' and that it is intended for only a few groups.

The Veil is followed and espoused by a number of groups, as well as influential individuals showing public support for its intended status, as a foundation for defining (see controlling) the moral/social behaviour of vampires.

It has been stated, quite clearly by a number of groups, that if one chooses not to follow the Veil's rules, they will be denied the opportunity for support, advice and information, not forgetting friendships to be broken.

It is the hypocrisy that bothers me with regards to the creators of the veil or it's most noted followers. Let's take one example:

part of the first rule or guideline is - "By no means should you talk to others about yourself and our community when your motives are for selfish reasons such as self-promotion, sensationalism, and attention-getting."

How has that been followed or mentored by the very people who promote it or helped create it?

Has Bellanger really been descreet in her work of radio interviews or documentaries?

What about Don Henrie? Does going on a national reality show dressed to the gothic nines and drinking blood from a crystal chalice while people compete before you acting like fools on Mad Mad House promote discretion?

It would seem that the Black Veil is rules for vampires who are not yet part of the clique that gets to break them all. A 'rules for underlings' kind of thing. Once you have kissed enough ass or made enough friends, then by all means, break the rules, get famous, be sensational, make money.

I had not heard of the Veil until today, when I read it in Nxs profile.

I was going to write common sense, until I learned it had been changed to exclude drinders of blood.

What has hapened to the Sangs who were following until that happened ?

Have they tried and been successful in changing to psi ?

Have they felt betrayed and joined other groups ?

STABB666

Is it actually against the law for consenting adults to taste each others blood ?

If so, that thought did not even enter my head.

Carvall,

Below is an article which was dug up by LadyCG, which clears up a few issues, for the UK at least, though I suspect that similar decisions would be made in US courts.

I know that in the States, it is perfectly legal or least as yet unchallenged that folks can go to body modification shops in order to have scarification & branding in addition to the usual tattoos and piercings. All of these things including the basic tattoos and piercing require what is normally referred to as 'aftercare' but could be called 'medical attention' in some circles.

Having received branding, tattoos and piercings that go beyond standard needle in ear modifications, I can say that cutting, while perhaps psychologically self destructive when done for depression issues is neither harmful or dangerous so long as those involved understand the most basic of issues (knowing where to cut and how deep). Obviously, just grabbing a razor and going to town could lead to serious wounds or even death if you hit an artery or cause nerve damage. This would be rare.

One last note. Body modification requires consent forms. Perhaps donors should look into that.

STABB666

Thanks for taking the time to show me that.

Well I now have something else to think about lol

If people who follow the veil do so and take/give blood, bearing in mind the recent change, then I think the question becomes one of honesty more than anything else.

I still wonder if some Sangs have actually changed to psi ?.....how many have tried ?

Sorry but i can not understand why a person would follow rules on how to act, i mean if a person has common sence then they do not need to follow the black veil, and yes i know that for the majority of vampires out their the black veil is just guidelines to follow not rules...

I think the rules were invented just to give the society a sense of cohesive community. After all, what's a group without rules. We've all seen how fast societies, covens, houses etc, develop rules and requirements first. It gives the leaders a sense of power. It gives the followers a sense that the leaders are in fact there for a reason. The truth however is that the rules in the Black Veil are really mostly common sense on how to be in a fringe subculture that many wouldn't understand and not make a fool out of yourself.

I do live by it, and I believe it was posted a few weeks ago here.it has been around for awhile hun.

I don't really live by the veill. It was a great thought and all but to me it just goes along with my sense of right and wrong and alittle bit of common sense.
I'm sure that they're are those groups that say that if you don't follow it , they won't give you advice and kick you out, etc.

but thats not everyone. And even in a group, its not like they came up with it, that father sebastian guy did? and I'm guessing he got it from some masquerade game, which is why ppl don't like him?? I don't rly know the story behind that (learn it later) don't care to much either.

i've only heard a little bit about it, but it sound like more restrictions for thing. just follow what you believe inside and what YOU think is morally right. :) that's how i live.

I do not know why any one would want to join a group that follows the black veil, i mean if a group was good they would just use common sense as their rules and not rely on rules someone else created...

This thread has been automatically closed for length.