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The new system of gaining the prince’s favour will surely affect house standings greatly. Houses often have standards that they expect it’s patrons to abide by: a certain popularity level; a given status level; a level of participation in house forums; and usually some effort at acquiring favour; as well as various other subtleties of fitting in with the house/coven, depending on it’s maturity.

Obviously, the new system of awards will radically change the house standings and the general dynamics of how a house/coven jockeys for standings and other political games.

How do you think the change will affect the Rave; and will it be as big an evolution as, say, the introduction of Houses/Covens? What other evolutions have occurred that have radically affected the rave?

I think it will have good and bad effect, good as it will allow to show you actually are active on VR itself, and it will also affect the favor rating you get when youare active in the coven/house itself so its good
Bad is that some games like hangman were great, sadly the cheaters have ruin that. But I will admit looking at the rate some were gaining favors it did not seem normal.
I think it will affect the house/coven itself also making ppl in it more closer to one another, and more confident if they cant for exemple win at games they can still win at helping their coven/house.

Personally, I really like the change, it encourages people to be active for the benifit of their house and for covens/houses to be more mature in how they induct. As much as I liked playing the games I always thought it was an odd way of gaining favour for your house.

Although reminiscent of joisting for favours, it really seamed quite immature.

This new system I think will really bring a balance to the rave as it will supercede the immature practices of status, ratings, et al.

Personally, I'm excited about the change. I'm really eager to see how it will play out. I think that it puts everyone on a more even playing field. I think big changes will come. Some good and some bad.

Bottom line, though, if it sucks and it doesn't work, Cancer will change. I have complete faith in him. Some will be moaning and groaning and complaining about it, but they just need to take a moment and think about what Cancer goes through. Do you think it makes him happy when some people cheat while others don't? I'd say not. I'd say it got on his nerves a lot.

This new method of earning favor will virtually eliminate the possibility of cheating. It will reward the more dedicated members. I think it will be fantastic!!!

I really like how the new system is. It helps the covens see who is actually on and working to improve their status instead of relying on earning favor. It is a great way to integrate all aspects of calculating the scores for the different societies. I feel that some of the lower ranked covens and houses will raise in the standings because earning favor is now based on your commitment to the site and not how well you play the games. This will be interesting to watch. ^_^

Cheating at games had become exceedingly rampant at VR. The situation was not fixable. I had to pull a game after only 1 hour of release due to cheating. I spent 16 hours coding a game that lasted less than an hour. It was an extreme waste of my time.

I never meant to implement games at VR. If you go back and read the VR manual and Society FAQ, you'll see that I often say, "Favor is earned through competing in Contests." The link to the games was called Contests, not games.

There is a subtle difference.

Games encourage cheating and grinding. Contests are one-time or limited-time events. I got away from Contests and started developing games which led to a lot of problems.

Most people didn't even PLAY the games. They hated earning Favor, and I don't blame them. Personally I stay away from MUD's and MMORPG's because I hate to grind.

The new system eliminates the problems associated with running games. As time permits, I will occasionally release contests where members can earn additional Favor. They will be limited-release with little opportunity to cheat.

Furthermore, the new system balances out the way Society standings are computed. In the past, a Coven could spring up with 5-10 Sires, all of who were very active in games, and they could have quickly gained number one position. This didn't actually happen, but a few Covens who had only highly-ranked members were quickly climbing to the top.

With the new system, Societies are encouraged to induct low-ranked members who are highly active. A member who is level 5, yet on VR quite a bit each day will earn tons of Favor... Plus their Status will gradually increase which further benefits the Society.

Slimmed down Societies with only high-level members will no longer have the advantage. A Society that is composed of lower-leveled members, but which is still quite active as a group, will earn more Favor. The change also encourages Societies to seek out more members, not less.

And as I have already stated, there will be occasions where members can earn additional Favor.

For those who worked hard at games under the old system, the Favor they earned still belongs to their Society. They have an advantage going into the new system. However, that advantage will fade if they are not active at VR.

All around, this system is the most fair.

Thank you, that is precisely what I was getting at.

Well, taking everthing in to consideration it does seem fair.
I can understand how frustrating it must be to spend 16 hours codeing a game and it goes to waste.
Maybe one day we can have the games back i did rather enjoy 5x as a lot of people know. However, The new system does seem a fairer way to do things
and pratically eliminates and possibility of cheating.

Yeppers, BIG TIME fair :) I appreciate it as I will be able to earn bunches of favor with the full-time hours I spend here :P

I agree with Cancer. I have heard about the cheating. Shame.

just wanted to say thanks to cancer for making things a little more fair to those of us that spend a HORDE of time, but can't seem to get anywhere... especially if you suck (like me, ugh), and have dialup.. love the rave, and this will be MUCH more productive for all of us..
D

Dark Greeting's,
I also can see Cancers and everyone elses point.I'm Dyslixs(sp sorry) so hangman was the only contest I could win at.I understand,but I truely enjoyed hangman,and it actually relaxed me.I am looking forward to see how this all works out.
Dark Blessing's,
KA

Amen to that last statement Cancer.:)

lol, very strong physiological problems. ;]

i look forward to the games coming back.. personally I will still play them

and im still laughing at cancers last comment.. how true that is

I have to say I would like to have the games back, but this way of earning favor is a bit easier for me.

I'm still giggling at that last comment. ^_^

Aww, bringing the games back will be great. (I still want checkers, lol)

This new system, is so much better :]

So long as the games are coimg back eventually, I'm happy. I really enjoyed them.

And I think the new dynamics in Houses and Covens will be a lot more fun. When I show people this site, I've had a lot of them mention to me that the higher ranked a House or Coven was, the fewer members it seemed to have. Of course they were all high ranked. This new system will encourage a lot more participation in Houses and Covens, and a lot more new members.

I played the games under duress and prefer spending my time on VR posting in the forums and chatting to friends so this new system will be good for me.

As a suggestion, what about awarding favour based on visits to coven pages by non coven-members? To my mind this will encourage houses and covens in the production of attractive and interesting content...

Amen to the psych comment lol

Craig brings put a good point, maybe covens/houses should visit each other once and a while.


rofl@banana dance.

Well I think the Prince just sumed up everything .. Its should be more fair this way eventhough I myself enjoyed the 5x5x5.. back to rating ..lol

i really think i like this new system as well. i liked the 5x5x5 game as well but back to posting and rating too lol

Yah that would be pretty cool to have some actual games that are just here to play and not to win favor. Personally I love the new system. Thanks Cancer!!
Very fair

yeah I agree what cancer said if a few people want to cheat then there is no point to have games on there for favor what so ever. Everyone can earn favor in their own time and not have to deal with anything anymore when it comes to games. If the games were to come back for fun then im open to that as well it will open that up for more people to play and have more fun on the rave. that is my two's cents worth there.

I loved playing boggled. I could play for an hour and it would just seem like minutes. The fact that I was racking up favor was a big bonus though. If it comes back, I will still be earning favor because of the time I spend playing it.

I think the new changes is better, but i did like playing games just for fun, because I dont really care if I win or lose, its just a game. I am a online chess player and most of the chess games I play on the internet where just for fun, so there were no cheating involved, all the people that played chess got record of how many games they won or lose. I think it would be better if VR played their games just for fun with no favours awarded. Spending more time on VR and chatting to people is much better.

I am glad the games will make a come back without the favor component. I loved hanging that little blue dude.

I do think this is system is quite a bit fairer than the old one because it encourages activity.

I myself will play the games even without the Favor component to them. I enjoyed them, and they were a way to pass the time.

I still think it's a shame so many people decided to cheat at the games, and deprive us of the joy of playing.

But this new system I like better, because some of the games refused to load on my connection. (I'm on dialup.)

This way, I'm earning Favor for being here, and I'm here fairly often.

Yep this way is much easier,gaining favor by just spending time on VR!

I agree with this system because you can actually earn something for your hard and long hours that get spent here.

I mean to read and view things in order to also educate the members is a much better thing, besides when you cheat you are only cheating your self.

I was always told to play fair and then you know where your skills are lacking and need improvement.

This is much better, thanks Cancer.

The games will seem more fun and not a chore also. I miss my man Blue Dude lol
I like this new plan, if I don't do anything else, I hang out on VR a lot lol

Sounds like a pretty good idea to me. It just makes me wonder if more will start force inducting. That's the only part I don't like about it. Now if a member is force inducted they will have no choice about not gaining favor. If they are on there account then they will be contributing favor to the coven/house that inducted them. Otherwise it seems like a good idea & maybe the most fair.

I know that I sat for hours night and day at times playing hangman to earn favour points for my coven. That was my primary reason for playing that contest as the others i could not really follow too good and hangman was a simple format i could follow. I know I never cheated once I don't see how anyone can on hangman just sat here for hours not even bothering to message people on my friends list when they would come on so i could work harder on favour.
I think it is going to take some time to get used to the new system that is going on and will miss playing hangman because after I started playing it only to get favours for my coven I did get hooked on it as a game that you don't seem to be able to find in other places and was able to help my coven at same time.
At least though am stil able to earn favour by spending time here at vr just wish our messages had not been lost. lol.
Time will tell how the new system works for all of us at VR.

Personally, I suck at games. However I can talk for hours! Anybody who has ever messaged me can attest to that! I like the new system.

i think it will be a good change and it has been stated that the cheaters will be caught and proiles will vanish. although a lot of people, myself included enjoyed playing the games, it's better this way. i am still going through hangman withdrawls though lmao.

it has a good effect...the prince shouldnt have had to deal with cheating i mean cmon cheatin is for ****** that had no chance at winnin in the first place....everything you do on vr counts now

yeah i never could win at 5s at all i sat there one day trying to play and got wiped out about 24 times in a row by someone who had way more experience which you know was not their fault . they learned the game and got the experience at it ; but still when a friend offered to come to 5s with me to teach me how to make moves and all i was afraid of doing that cause thought if it could be seen it would look like i was cheating so i just stuck with hangman after that.
Only time i ever won at 5s was when someone i was playing forfetied because they had to leave.

I do feel for the house and coven masters. I know Sabastion was working tonight to restructure his house a bit. But, I think it is a very good change. I'm one of those who liked to play the games because they were fun, so I will be happy to see them back.

Dear Prince

I can only imagine the irritation you have been caused by fools chaeting.

But please, bring back 5's I am addicted, I dont care if its not favor based....pretty please ? lol

Well I like the change as it puts everyone on a level playing field no matter what their status. I use to play hanged man and did enjoy playing it but I would feel my favors were utterly useless compared to someone playing 5s which I could not master.

This way we all have a chance and I agree with cancer it gives members with a lower status a chance to shine and not get overlooked.

Thanks Cancer I was one who liked to play hangman as well. I like the idea of the time spent and pages viewed on the games rather than the other way as I see it as a way of cutting out the cheating too. Thanks for taking the time to explain it the way that you did.

Cobalt

I think the change is good in the sense that now everyone will be earning favor just by being an active member in the coven and V.R, and every one has the same chance at earning favor, like before maybe they were having some trouble becuase of the games or something.

I believe that the new way does give an advantage, the old system worked well for those who could get the difficult words in hangman or those who were a wiz at playing 5's. With the new system, the favors are won not by playing games, but by participating and being active. I one, feel that this is important. And am glad to see the change.

Granted this may not be permanent, but I like the new way of getting favor.

I do not mind the new system, changes is good. I was never that good at hangman but still enjoyed playing it.

This new system will for me bring more pleasure in earning favors because it is not something I have to be good at, I enjoy spending time on VR regardless of games or not.

Just did a snap collection of the favour under the new system...and I like it. We can now see who is actually participating in VR.
It also allows those that couldn't play the games to contribute to the coven more

What do House ratings matter at this point in time. Obviously there was so much cheating in order to gain favor that ALL standings are somewhat suspect.

As with everything else I'll give this new system a try, I'm not one to whine about lost things even though the games were a big part of VR for me and the main reason why I would log in every day... It really made VR... fun... a break from all the rating... Now that it's all going to be about rating, viewing pages, whatever, I'm not sure how I'll feel about it... but some things you just have to accept and move on. I do agree that this system might be more fair though, that's the positive thing I can see about it. I hope the games will come back though, favor or no favor :)

I don't believe any of my coven members did cheat so I am happy for us to continue to work hard at what we do. If it gets us above other covens then great - if not then we work a little harder until we do *smile*

What a way to sucker those who say they won't participate if inducted...LMAO...

It will make things easier...now everyone can earn favor by doing simple things.

And people who hated the games and didn't want to play don't have anything to fuss about.

I think it's a wonderful idea. Now I can earn favors for my Coven while doing other things on VR that should be done instead of sitting and playing games all day.

As far as how I think it will effect House/Coven standings, if a House/Coven is full of members who can't or don't spend alot of time logged in to VR, their standing will drop. If they are full of members who devote a considerable amount of time to the site, their standing will rise. I think it will force alot of House/Coven Masters to reconstruct their memberships. All in all, I think it's an excellent motivator.

Does the weighted balance of favour earnings change? I don't recall the Big C saying that the overall calculation will change.

However, looking at our coven, we have earned as much in two days as we did all of last week so overall it is looking good and will encourage the retention of active members. We do have some who for various good reasons cannot be active but are at least Shaitan. So far the quality of their profile and status level has been sufficient to make them "active" in the coven even though they can't be with us as much as we'd all like. It will be interesting to see if this is maintained.

craig1459 It does change. Here is the favor break down taken from the thread Sevenn had:

The original message from Cancer:



"All VR games have been pulled. I'm tired of the cheating. Moderating games should not be a full-time job.

The Favor system has been reworked. From this point onward, one of the ways Favor is earned is through being logged into VR.

25 page views equals 1 Favor. 1 page view equals 1/25 Favor.

15 minutes of time spent equals 1 Favor. 1 second of time spent equals 1/900 Favor.

You'll now start seeing fractional Favor values.

There will be other ways to earn Favor in the future, such as contests, but this new system will be the primary method of earning Favor.

For those of you using auto-clickers or other methods to falsely inflate your status stats, be forewarned. I'm tired of this crap too. I'm going to start setting traps. When you fall into one, your account will vanish.

Please pass this information on to your members.

Cancer"

Sah:

I think craig was reffering to the math used to calculate society standings. ie 33% Member's rating, 33% Members Status, 34% Favor earned.

I believe he was asking if the formula would change based on the cahnage in favor generation method.

(Craig...just kick me if I am wrong!)

Thanks for your response saharia - but not quite what I was getting at

what I meant was the weighting of favour in terms of the calculation of house/coven scores
i.e. favour, status, profile ratings

If favour accumulation is going to increase under this new regime - which from initial observations appears to be the case - it will have a greater bearing on overall scores, which in turn will affect membership and approach to scoring.

e.g. if favour is going to substantially outweigh profile scores then I'll say don't work to get the profiles above a certain level and surf the site more

If however, favour inflation was accounted for by changing the total score calculation then it's business as usual.

It's something I was thinking about when people started getting crazy scores in Boggled lol

Thanks KCRC - saying the same thing at the same time *smile*

From what I've read there is no change in how society status is determined, only with how the favor is earned.

Hmm may be a case of wait and see - I've earned more favour in the last two days than I have in the last four weeks lol but it's a problem for my usual coven favour whores. I'll just have to come up with some new schemes and ideas to motivate them *smile*

Nothing about Society standing calculation has changed. Favor is still 34%, roughly 1/3 of the score. This won't change.

The way in which Favor is accumulated was changed for two reason: to end cheating and to encourage the induction of lower level active members. It DIRECTLY offsets inducting high level inactive members.

If your question is how will this change affect a Society, well, it depends. A lot of work went into the mathematics. As you've already seen, your Coven is getting more favor under the new system than the old. This change will tend to benefit Covens more than Houses (at least initially). Covens tend to be filled with lower level members who are more active (because they are trying to increase the status of their account).

Houses tend to have an advantage in the Status portion of scoring, since Houses are usually filled with higher level members.

So should a Coven just induct 500 level 5 members? Well, it would maximize their Favor earning... But their Status and possibly rating sections would be lower, offsetting the huge advantage they'd have in Favor.

If this same Coven was able to hold together over time, seeing its members develop into high level members, earing Favor all along the way, then this Coven would rise to the top of the standings.

This is the importance and power of the new system. Top Societies will be recognized over time.

Craig, some people will obviously earn less Favor under the new system. But you must look at the Society as a whole. Their individual reduction in Favor earning should be more than offset by the fact that EVERY member is now earning Favor.

The collective benefit is greater. Favor earning has always been for the Society, not the individual.

Cancer:

I see you have been following this thread closely. I have a question regarding the entire Society standing system.

Does the standing of a society amongst the others result in anything more than "Bragging rights"? Other than the obvious benefit that more favor = a greater ability to trade for more 'desireable' members, and the fact that the #1 society "sets the bar" for the calculation of the favor score, is there any other plus to being #1 in the standings?

If not, have you ever considered some sort of reward for being the top society? I have no idea what would be appropriate. It just seems to me that if the idea is to generate a desire to reach the top spot, some sort of perquisite for reaching it might spark the competative drive.

KCRC,

For a very long time, the top Society at VR has not been the Society with the most Favor. Favor is only 1/3 of the calculation.

The standings system was always meant to reflect which Societies are the "strongest". The Societies with the best VR members. Games got away from that idea. This change should put things back on course.

Being #1 is its own reward ;)

"Top Societies will be recognized over time."

To represent the society as one is so much commutative than the single standings of one member.

Soon we will see who are truly addicted to our Rave. Aww, I can't wait to see the many changes that will occur from there current events.

lol, who would get 500 level 5 members anyways.

;]

I know, I know but its was still funny in a way. ;]

Okay i asked a question here and it was removed and my question was going to be related to the new system and a way it could still have cheating done with it that i did not want to put here publicly in case it might give others ideas.

Thanks for answering Cancer - yes I am sure in the long run it will balance out, I'm just running through ideas in my head as to the activities and incentives I give now under the new regime *smile*

It seems only fair that favor is determined through honest activity rather than skullduggery behavior with the games. We will see how this shake up effects houses/covens strategy to climb the ladder.

i liked playing hang man and still will even if there is no favors involved

I'm enjoying this way of earning favor more than playing hangman. I'm just trying to figure out how the societies that have a required favor per week quota is going to deal with it. Since it is easier for people to earn favor are these quotas going to be abolished or are they going to be revised to complement the new system. This would possibly hurt some members that can't get on as much as they would like due to working or school, but could get on to earn the favor that they need for the week. I think that this will affect a lot of houses and covens because, yes they are earning more favor, but they may lose higher ranked people because of them having work schedules.

I would like to see how this plays out.

I am one of those people that really enjoyed playing the games. It is really ashame that a few people had to go and ruin it for the rest of us. However, I can see how taking away the games has given some more "fairness" to everything! Just want to say thanks to Cancer for giving us such an awesome site! :) I hope at some point the games are returned.

Oh and one more thing, just to comment on what NatylaInconnu said, yes I know, I am one of those people that will have a busier schedule here pretty soon with school starting back up. In ways, it really helped me to be able to get on for a little while and play some of the games to earn favor... but now I'm not sure how I'm going to do that.

thank you cancer soooo much now people that did not like those contests or could not load them have an equal chance

Further to what I said earlier - we do have profiles who can't make a regular contribution by being on e.g. we have one lad his pro is high level and with good pro rating so he is worth having and he will be back active eventually. However as a non-favour earner under the new scheme it might be better to kick him but again we'll have to see how it pans out.
I have put Mina's cheating quote at the top of my pro and I am considering suggesting my coven do the same *smile*

I think the new change is great, best thing that could of happened in my opinion.

I think its a good change. For some. People that arent here that much, that might be a problem.

I think making the "games" for everyone would be awesome! My friends who are on a lower level, they hear me talking about 5x's and they are interested, so that would be coolio. =D

'Change is a good thing'. I don't know that I'd agree with that saying in regards to everything, but in the matter of the changes taking place here at VR, I would definately agree with it.

It's a shame that so much work went into the games only to have them removed, but the games are not the only source of enjoyment here. I try to take the time to read through the main forum threads and the house threads. I actually find a lot of interesting things and people there.

Maybe with this time away from the games, more people will begin to enjoy the topics that are discussed. They aren't always the best, but with such a diverse group of people here, that's to be expected.

PS....The thought of having the Matrix back is killing me! I'm already looking forward to even the slightest possibility! (sad, I know) heh

I have to agree with Vampiress...
In the near future I will have a VERY busy schedule with a baby to take care of, and I can't see how I'm supposed to be able to stay logged on VR long enough to gain some favor.

And as much as many might have felt forced to play games (although I'm sure most saw it as enjoyable...), it'll become a pressure to view as much pages and spend as much time as possible... How do you make that fun?

But again, there's not other choice than to adapt to these changes...

"it'll become a pressure to view as much pages and spend as much time as possible... How do you make that fun?"

Chatting with friends, posting in the forums, ratings, reading articles etc

Everything you do now - apart from play the games *smile*

Ah craig, you do have a point there... :)

Though I can't deny that I hope the games will return, favor or no favor...

i dont honestly know whether the changes are good or ill for the site...im recently affilited so i really dont have a clue about favor yet..

...and if/when Cancer brings back the games as "not for favour" then you will earn favour just by playing them *smile*

*takes a moment to concider multiple accounts*

If one has a premium membership and wishes to start up a secondary account, they will be forced to apply their favour to a new coven as they try to advance in levels... or:

It may be interesting to automatically be inducted into your origional coven and to then have a "coming out" party or Childe Release/ Debutante Ball that indicates that the profile is up for auction to other societies.

Might add some nice southern flare to the Rave, and be an interesting incentive for house members to create multiple profiles.

I have two accounts - my other is in La Rose Noire. I am limited in my use of it because I am so busy with this one. However my level of participation in that is acceptable to the master. Now I will be able to contribute favour as well *smile*

Personally, and just personally, it is a lot better.

When boggled was released I saw people earning the same favor in a day that it had taken me months to earn playing hangman.

I spend quite a long time on the database and felt that I somehow had to try and keep up with favor and juggling it with the database.

I can now spend most of my time adding to the database (the very core of VR's purpose) while still earning favor for my house

for me, at least, its a lot better

I think it will be much better as well. I was on here quite a bit just chatting and reading and looking at things....favor..shrugs...I did what I was supposed to do but it was not as much fun when I HAD to do it. I like to do things for fun.....not HAVE to.

This way, I get to do what I want for fun AND earn favor. What a great idea.

Sends Cancer a virtual bottle of KY Bourbon for that!!!:)

As much as I enjoyed earning favor for my coven by playing games and having my members earn a mark or another "treat" I think this will cause members who didn't want to work, still earn wherever they may be in a society.

Although I'm not huge on forced inductions, I can see how it would benefit the society.

I was a little bummed when I first found out the games had been taken away because I truly enjoyed playing them.
However, after reading through the comments made in this thread and thinking about the change in how favour is earned I really don't feel so bad now.
I think that if/when the games come back and we can play "just for fun" and not favour that I will enjoy them even more.
I am really hoping to see the matrices back above all as they were my favourite and terribly addicting. :)

Halla lueya Cancer I really find the rave just as fun as before , but I do like the blue dude he will be missed but ill play regardlesss of favor earning this means whelps can earn favor while still trying to get into a coven or a house lol great!! Idea this is Cancer.

I am glad to see them gone for now..... Its good to be able to focus on my status... But then again....... I am a return user... So when i was here before... it was all about favor...
Not anymore... at least for now... Later I wouldn't mind seeing some of them come back...
Hopefully, ones that anyone has a chance at winning would be nice.
LOL

I for one am LOST without spellcheck and the backspace button.....
Spelling............. not one of my talents... But then again... neither was strategy.

I like the new system it is good for those who were not good at the games to still be able to earn favor for their covens by being on VR. It is also nice to know that we are earning by posting in our own forums and makes people feel better and a bit more relaxed about being online and getting more involved in their prospective covens or houses

I agree with Sacred completely - in fact we're earning more. The favour now is representative of wider activity and we can see how active people actually are. I've been pleasantly surprised already lol.

Suggestions for pimping the process further down the line
1. Core VR activities such as reading the database gain more favour than posting in the VampBox or the SandBox
2. Houses/Covens gain favour from views on their pages by non members

This thread has been automatically closed for length.