The Ultimate Vampire Resource and Directory

What is your definition of gray witchcraft? We all know that "white" is good magick and "black" is bad, but where do those of us who sit on the fence fall?

My definition of gray witchcraft is someone who will use magick for personal gain but not with the intent of causing harm to others.

What do you guys think?

Gray magic is one and all. Good and evil are only judgements. If I killed, that would considered an evil act by most but to some as an act of mercy or revenge or w/e.

That is technically the definition of it. They grey arts are the neutral arts. Where one walks the line between both. Not really seeking to do so much harm but attempting to follow the path of least resistance in their art. The way, the Tao, magick itself is this. Sliding it one way or the other is to become off balanced and inadvertently corrupt in essence.

I do not really believe in gray magick, i think it is either good or bad, but that is just me...

I believe "Gray Magick" is elemental or druidic, arbitrary. I think it is the way of nature as we know it...manifestation from the quantum 0 field.

It can mean many things.

I don’t believe in black magck or white magick to me there is only one type of magick its how you use it, there is no good or bad spells, you can use black magick spell for the right reason to save some ones life. Is that then gray magick or it then classes as white magic because its for the grater good, or maybe its still black magick as it is a forbiddon spell, there are different cases of magick and I don’t think it can be defind by what is black magick and what is white magick only how we use it and if the person that is doing the spell or ritual is pure hearted when they do it

so then technically all magick must be gray, and the shades of white or black are merely tinges on the light or darkness of the intent, as one must always give in order to get. There is no gain without a form of sacrifice.

Yes there are people who see it that way too.

I feel that it is as was said the middle ground but that is also interesting as was said about the spells causing something good but with negative as well.

In color theory white is the combination of all colors, whereas black is the absence of color - based on the idea of light where white is the presence of light therefor color, and black is the absence of light and therefor no color. Labeling magic as grey as it pertains to light would suggest a clouded intent, where it is not clear what you are doing but you have a general idea. This I think is demonstrated by the example given above where one performs a money spell but the intent is shifted from personal gain to harming another person/thing in order to get it.

As a second note: Light and Darkness are most commonly associated with wisdom and ignorance respectively. Unless you have reached perfection and total knowledge, chances are we are all performing in a grey-ish light.

Now this is really ircking me...I mean no insults to anyone...And I mean NO insults. As some of you are in the learning stages.

I will answer this question with a hopefully less then hostile response.

There is no such thing as BLACK, or WHITE magic...These two terms were made up by foolish peasants during the Salem witch trails to express the intent of GOOD vs. EVIL...The stereotypes of BLack and WHITE do not exist.

Try to bare with me during my patronizing. As I have been into the ARTS as you would call it, no matter if it is PAGAN, WICCAN, SATANIC, LUCIFERIAN, EGYPTIAN, FAE, whathaveyou...I am tired of the speculations of whether or not black or white are black or white...There is no such thing as GRAY magics. Nor Neutral magiks. Magick is magick.

Depending on how you use your castings, invocations, rituals, summonings, calling the corners, your gods and goddesses, drawing down the moon, or whathaveyou. It is all about intention, and faith. Intent on what you wish for or want, your desires...Faith that these spells, castings, rituals, invocations etc. will work. NOTHING IS GRAY, black or white. YOU as the spell caster are the factor. YOU decide whether or not those magicks you use responsibly are effective.

It never has been a reasoning between good vs. evil...That is a simple Christian dogma that has plaqued mankind for centuries. I think it is time to drop the charade and start casting for what we truly desire, not good, not evil...But what we think is best for the moment.

I think I am done ragging...I should wait for more responses. Once again, I opoligize for any insults, as I know some are still either learning or just beginning. If you question my judgement, just remember, I have been at this since I was 11 years old...I turned 30 on Aug 29th just to give you a hint.

i believe grey magick to be neutral,it is both because everything in life is both(black and white) you must balance both,therfore the grey would be right in the middle which black and white spawn from

Black and white "magic" are not simply Christian design. You will notice, from the first Confucianist period centuries before the birth of Jesus, the Yin and Yang design, where in black and white are polar opposites and within each one contains a portion of the other. Evil and good are likewise not Christian in design, evidenced in the books of Moses, or the first five books of the Bible, where good and evil are in a constant battle.

Perhaps in actual spell casting, there is no black or white, but you as the catalyst have the ability to change the intent to primarily negative or positive - the former often coded with the color black (an oxymoron considering I defined black as colorless - go figure.)

Wow, didn't know there was such a thing as 'gray witchcraft'. Ha--I think that they might use it for personal gain but not to harm other people? Well, if it was for personal gain--couldn't that hurt people too?

On reviewing Soulshroude's post, I have to say I agree with him. The labels regarding magic are simply that - labels. No, there is no standard for "White Magic" nor is there one for "Black Magic" - it is all intent. If, though, we agree that Black equals ignorance, then the only "Black magic" is magic that isn't performed or known of at all. If it must be labeled, then yes Grey Magic exists but for those who don't know how to perform magic perfectly.

Someones been reading the LotR again, me thinks. There's no such thing folks.

there is no such of a thing as white, black or grey witchcarft...your magik is based purley in your intent...

Grey magik as it were would be the use of = parts both possitve and negitive intent, which maintains a Zero karmik ballance. NO FALL BACK ON THE CASTER...

If you would like to know more, please feel free to message me...333

Very well stated Wolfbohne and Morlock...My use of the word "Christian" btw is of my own dislike for the prevailant use by those ignorant enough to believe in such hookey. Again, no insults intended. Such discussion is for yet another thread that I will start in time.

Soulshade, that seems the best way to put it...I guess it's like clay - Its simply clay until a sculpture shapes it into something.

it's when white turns black....like a love lost spell that turns in obsession...

I believe when a person sais they are doing black magick they mean they are doing bad magick, and when someone sais they are doing white magick they are just saying they are doing good magick, magick is magick, the person using it decides on how it will be used...

hahahaha ....gray witchcraft ummmm no such thing...LOL

I had to go look there is actually link's on this and there is believer's so slap me....here's a link
www.graywitchcraft.com

there is no such thing..its like being sort of pregnant...

I am a grey witch. i do both black and dark.

I agree with some of the others as stated above. Magic is a form of energy like fire or electricity and cannot be labeled good or evil. It is how one uses the energy and the intent that makes it good, evil, neutral, etc.

Firstly, I thank you all for your responses. I would like to just put out there (cause for some reason I feel it is necessary lol) that I too have been practicing varying forms of magick for a long time. I started when I was twelve, and I just turned 22 last month...so long enough to know that although there is no such concept as actual "white" and "black" magick, the terminology is out there and is used frequently.

On that note, I myself have been known to cast spells for various reasons including personal gain. The reason I brought this up is because a friend of mine told me I was "classified as a gray witch because you'll do most any kind of spell with only minor concern for the real outcome." This of course is not entirely ture as I always keep myself well aware of possible consequences and alternate outcomes which in turn makes me almost obsessive about my spells. lol

An interesting thread the divisions I see forming in this thought process of this thread.

Grey witchcraft as an art unto istelf

magickal force applied to neutral forms

The division of such things comes, to the person who does the dividing. To say there is no one thing or another is to lose what that thing is. It is both, because that is the way of nature.

It is not that magick cannot be percieved as gray, labeled such to provide a point of reference for conversations.

you understand magick as "That which causes desired change changes in the environment as manifest by the willed desire"

You understand witchcraft as "The manipulation of natural currents and energies through use of elemental intermediaries."

So gray witchcraft would be a very probable form of working in a caste system that allows for the division of some types of workings, used for neutral intent, with neutral output.

Neutral being something that exists for its own existence and cares not for something to be assimilated or made into an antinomian
being.

Light here defined as something that obliterates all that is not itself when it cannot assimilate an object into itself becoming one large body.

Dark here defined as being something that overtakes the body in question, separating it from a wheel of rotation forcing it to stand on its own under a specific set of circumstances.

So gray being a color used to form a caste system, bringing the neutral into cognitive terms of understanding. Grey witchcraft would in fact exist under the aforementioned conditions.


Neither all absorbing, or forcing a singular current about the overall intent to cause the desired outcome. Leaving it open to the path of least resistance.

Yep well said soulshroude

I blame the endless books were being flooded with under the banner of the new religion wicca.

As for the colour of magic should it be pink as it’s just a pigment of your imagination lol

Sorry I thought that pun was funny

For me.... gray is when a white spell takes on black qualities..... like if you do a "harmless" money spell and your grandma dies leaving you with millions.....

Grey magick is simply using pure force with no need for the conception of good and evil at all. Power is power, intent is intent, why use philosophy at all. For morals?

Dosen't magic need intent, though? I would see 'gray' magic as being rather rare; neutrality rather has complex motives that would require moving mountains to satisfy. An example, I think, of gray magic would be a meditation to find food. Helps you survive, but dosen't help anyone else....purely neutral.

I'd agree with the personal gain and no harm done.

Personally I do not believe in the existence of black/white/grey magicks.

Magick is completely neutral. It can be both cruel and kind all at the same time.

However, for those that do believe in the black/white/grey theories.............

Grey magick would be a form of magick that is practised by people like me. People who practise both good and evil acts in order to maintain a balance between order and chaos.

Personally i mostly achieve balance by using chaos to promote order.

Mener

since gray itself is alot of white and a tiny bit of black, I would think it is most white magick with a dash of black here and there.

I look at all magick as being "grey" and it is only the intent behind the spell, charm, or ritual that gives it a "good or evil" nature.

the truly neutral magic is beige magic - no white, no black, but it goes with everything.

LOL well I have been practicing magic for a long time and there is no such thing as Grey in my opinion . I asked some family members and they said it does not exist so I am gonna have to go with them on it ..

I mean you either us it for good or for bad, just my belief is all..

i dont think there is such a thing as gray witch craft to me you can either be doing good witch craft "white" or trying to hurt people and maybe killing people with "black" witch craft. there is only good and witch craft and nothing in between in my opinion.

Something I noticed is a few people saying gray doesn't exsist.... I don't want to step on any toes but Please think about this..... There is balance to everything.... with white there is black, good and evil, what have you.... but there is also that rare occurance(sp?) when the scale is level.... when everything is in perfect harmony.... that is where I think the gray portion comes from..... it is at that point when a spell done can have the outcome of the other..... like the example I gave earlier....

I thought Gray Magic to be a middle ground like
neutral bounds

I really dont believe in white and black magic.. it depends on the person...if you attack with white good magic it is still a attack...wouldnt this be black magic

As it has been stated MANY times over..... there is no such thing. Magick is magick no matter how you label it, no matter how you practice it, and no matter what you use it for.... As far as the yin and yang that Wolfsbohne mentioned.... the representation of that is balance..... not white or black magic... I am a practicing druid...... we believe in a balance of things...... hence why I know the yin ane yang thing..... Magick has come far from the old ways, with so many labels being put on it and it being made into more then it is sometimes as well..... A lot of times, people want to say, hocus pocus bubble bubble toil and trouble and think they have cast a spell or performed magick, now dont get me wrong there are such things as spells, but I do not think many people (not all) realize the simplicity of it all....... If you have ever cooked chicken soup for a sick friend or family member, you were performing magick, your ingrediants, and your energy went into that soup....... with the intent on making someone well....... that is one of the most simplest forms of magick there is..... so yeh, no black, white, gray, red, blue, yellow, green..... no matter what color you choose to call it..... its just magick... no need to label it unless you just want to look like a bad a** because you think you work with black magick...... to a true (I will use the word pagan here as there are so many different faiths) it will only make you look foolish, and as though you havent a clue as to what you speak of......

Now I would like to go on record, by saying that I am not trying to offend anyone.... and if my words have I do apologize, but I am one to speak my mind.

I know it's been said, but obviously it cannot be said too many times as there are many young and impressionable minds here - magic(k) is magic(k) and there are no color distinctions.

I know I've said this before, but I will say it again. The purpose of this discussion is to realize that there are people out there who will use the "color stereotypes" due to being misinformed or just plain ignorant.

LovesEternalDeath~
I agree with you that their are people who are ignorant to magick, and yes magick is just that magick, but if someone uses magick to help someone out then it would be good magick or white magick, and if someone uses magick to harm someone for personal gain then that would be bad or black magick, and i do not see a problem with labeling magick, i think a lot of people who does good magick were the ones who labeled magick black and white so that they could say "im not a bad person i only do white magick" wich is probably untrue, but i do agree with you, magick is magick the label black and white are just used as a way to tell people what you do with the magick that is given to you...

ah, the colour of Magic. surely the true colour of all magic is octarine?

magic can be all the colours of the rainbow - and usually is; but as black, white, and grey are not in the rainbow, then magic does not come in those colours. if you are making grey magic, you are doing something wrong - go back to the occult primer.

i have to agree with ravenknights first statement .. i personally believe its either good or bad.. there is no grey area

it could be possible...but to be honest to get personal gain you will end up hurting someone whether you want to or not

that is a tough one as i have see so called black magic used for good and white magic used for evil . it al depends on your preception of what is good and what is not

Okay, the definition in the original post seems as good as any, and better than most. But what I wonder is why do people feel the need to label whether the do "white" or "black" magic? And even more to the point, since when was it wrong to use magic for personal gain if you're not harming anyone else in the process?! That always gets me. What the heck do we have magic for if not personal gain? Cause even if yo say it's only for helping others and healing and fluffy stuff like that, you still help others because of the warm fuzzy feelings of gratification you get from feeling like you did a good deed. *exasperated sigh*

labels is how people deal with complex issues...

I'd say doing both. But your theory with the personal gain is true, though I'd say that white witchcraft can be for personal gain, as long as it doesn't harm others.

I guess I could be called a gray Witch. I used my powers for good. But if some crosses me will harm them with or with out magic. But no more than they deserve. lol

i have always heard wiccans say do what you will but harm none ....so to that degree....all magic that doesn't harm anyone in anyway would be good ....but is it really evil to curse a murderer or rapist . i belive it can be either depending on how sociaty looks at it (if you care what others have to say)

all i ever heared of is white black magick

magic is magic good or bad

Grey magic is just what it sounds like a neutral form of the art.

i think its nithing but good and bad mixed together

Grey magic would have to deal with tarot cards, casting stones such things like that. When it comes to Grey magic I think it is either one or the other.

this may help you hun


http://www.mandrake1.com

I thamk that Gray Magic is all magic untill you actually choose to use it one way or the other . It is like sitting on the fence and have not decided what you want to do or where to go. I mean isn't that the same as Gray matter it is neihter and cannot not be decided as to how it is used or what it is.

i think there could be such a thing as gray kind of caught in middle or it could be just what you said for self gain but not hurt others .

personal gain does harm others but u can sit on the fence and do both white and black magic and still not pick a side
u can be hurt by both sides so eventually u will have to pick a side somewhere along the line

Well I believe "Grey Magic" is a fine line between light and dark .. If you do a spell and lets say it was to gain wealth.. A week or so later you recieve a large inheritance,but in order for that to work someone had to die to leave that to you. Well it was a spell designed for good , but since someone had to die to do so, it became a dark magic spell.. In other words "grey magic" Is white magic gone wrong. Which occurs to those who shouldnt be doing the spells in the first place.

Magick is not good or bad until we do it...then for whatever we use it for or send it out as makes it goo or bad. I believe that white and black magick can be used for bad or good. Depending on the results that you send it out for. To me gray is when you send a spell out for a good perpouse but something else happens to make things go bad because of a reaction. Like when one event makes or causes another unexpected event that wasn't good. Like when so and so gets a job but another so and so got fired. I also feel with anyone doing a spell or any kind of magick that one should do a tarot reading to ask even if the spell should be cast or do some kind of meditating about it first, because everything we do causes some kind of cause and effect. (just my opinion here) Even though I am a witch I do not cast spells very often.

Spells, potions, ect... are for a reason...for good or bad... is it possible to make it neutrual?

There is no such thing as black magic or white magic. It is all magic. It's we use it for that counts.

Grey magic...I think you are kidding yourself.

So you would say , that a spell specificly for taking a life ..... is just magic?? Not black magic?

The point here is that a gun is a gun with no moral application until a person uses it. If you are a sniper, prepared to take out a criminal in a hostage situation, the bullet that kills the man is not evil nor is the intent of the sniper. It is the will that that is determined either good or evil, not the tool.

I guess I would be considered gray actually. I'm not all evil and shit and out to hurt people but I'm not a saint either. I don't like to help those that don't want to help themselves and lets face it, there are waaaaaaaay few people who want to help themselves. I just get by doing what's right by me and try not to hurt others in the process.

But that would be the reason the bullet was created. Guns and bullets weren't created to use as a paper weight. And neither would a spell to take a life. It has a pourpose.

Gray magic is the nuetral of all. but this is totally on the person and the method it is used for it could slipp one way or another. magic to me used for self gain always comes with a price as mentioned above. I aalso believe magic is magic and is based on the person who uses it wether it becomes black or white or gray, not the spells itself.

I suppose, then, that it would depend on whether or not you think all killing is evil. Is it evil to kill one dangerous man who may in turn kill hundreds? The purpose behind the use is what is good or evil - not the thing itself.

I understand what you are all saying, I promise I'm not being ignorant. But its a viable argument.

I don't really know much about witchcraft but I always thought it was a mix as you said....doing something for yourself without the intent of harming others.

I dont believe in white, black,grey.... labels (yuck!). Magic is pure and CANNOT be canned like pork and beans... hmmmm.

Hmmm, LED, never heard of that, hun. Interesting concept, though -- I am a total neophyte on the subject but I never thought someone could "walk the line" when it came to magick. Shows what I don't know.

grey magic is a touchy subject. to some it is greedy but to other it is fine. scince you don't really use blakc magic during it your not being "evil".....it's as you said for personal gain with out the intention of pain. although i must say the backlashes hurts like hell.

I would agree with you. However I am not sure it is any less bad karma wise to use. It sounds selfish.

I don't like to give magick colours,but I understand why other people do.I don't try to be a good or bad witch other wise you end up being completely the opposite I would just try to be the best witch I can.

Well it's an interesting dicussion, I'm not exactly qualified to speak on witch craft per se, as I study High Magic (another label, but I mean no disrespect to witch craft, in my opinion it's just two different roads to the same destination). To me there are only a few absolutes in terms of magic morality, and those do give for want of a better term black and white magic. As I said these are only terms to make classing them easier, i.e. by purpose.

But these purposes aren't always immutable for the majority of magic, a curse can be to harm one who doesn't deserve it through spite of the caster, or it can be aimed at one who deserves it. That's what I understand by the term grey in terms of grey magic. But a grey caster is someone who has a foot on both roads, someone who used black and white together, regardless of their intentions.

Sounds like a logical deduction. She would have both attributes and use them for personal gain without effecting others. Call Websters Harriet we got a good one ;)

you pretty much got it right. magic used for personal, self-ish gain without harming anyone or any thing. all magic is the same there really is no white or black..its the person that uses it and how they use it

i think personally that soulshroude said it as clear as it could possibility get about what white /black or even gray magic reall;y is or isn't because we are both and nature is both as well we can be really good one minute and the next if someone does something bad to you and you use a spell to get even with them are we not good and evil in our own right ...

For me a great deal of any talk of black or white or gray in witchcraft must start with intent. After all the most helpful spell can be made harmful with a twist of intent.

And in my mind there are many ways of falling in the gray area. A few were mentioned.. the doing spells for personal gain.. but not to harm. Asking for cash and getting it thru the harm or death of another etc.

For me another way is even doing something as simple and seemingly as innocent as casting a health spell for a friend or loved one without their full ok beforhand.

I think so far it has been described pretty well... definitely means to me the borderline, the intention is self gain with no harm to others. Sometimes perhaps doing something on the behalf of another without asking their permission.

I don't think its about fence sitting I think it is more what the intention is behind the magick or ritual performed.

Pigeouns are grey, and they poop on ppl, they are not evil, but they need to do it, ppl dont like that, thats not good.

They are such grey wizards.

Witchcraft is Witchcraft, i think a lot of people use the term gray Witchcraft so they can make it seem less evil or bad, but their is no such thing as gray, it is either bad or good their is no in between...

I agree with RavenKnight. You either use magick for good purposes or bad. If you use magick say to punish someone because they did something to hurt another. You're still using magick for bad no matter how good your intentions are.

Hi. I personally dont do any kind of witchcraft but i do find it very interesting to study and read so i found this on the internet about what it is at Mandrakes website

Gray Witchcraft

I belive that the color is in the heart of the witch and real magick has no color but for grey magick you have no malicous intent but for personal gain you'll do anything pretty much

i do not belive in this so called gray magick as i belive there is either a choosing of one side or the other and no middle grounds i believe that both white and black magick can have positive as well as negative effects it's all up to the practitionier.

I find that when you reach into the concepts of both sides, things tend to cancel themselfs out. There is no true progress unless one side is concentrated apon, followed by the other.

magick is magick its neither black or white, the persons thoughts and actions behind the magick are either black or white. gray is neutral magick.

In my tradition, The Gardenian, Grey witchcraft, doesn't exist. Is white..for good..or black..for others reasons. My practice is always for the best of friends and the coven. We are always Practicing Magick and always is in the positive side of the craft.

every thing i have read and learned leads me to believe to there is no real grey area remeber if does no harm do as you will

I've never actually thought about the existence of gray witchcraft until now.... I'm going to have to think about this and come back with a better answer to your question.

To me, "black" magick is doing magick with the intent of hurting another, which is against what a lot of witches believe in.....

"white" magick would be the opposite I suppose.....

Therefore, I can't see any "gray" magick, because there's no inbetween doing magick with the intent of hurting another or not.....you can't kind of hurt someone; even if you hurt them a little, that's still hurt, and therefore, still "black" magick in my opinion...

Alright, I have an interesting concept for you all, identifying magik as colour magik, which would exist to bare weight on the style of said spell will be used.

Have we thought about using the colours of our auras and or chakra's for the climax of such spells? This can and has been done, not black - Bad/evil, or white - good, but of the colors of the aura, which ever moods we are in at the time of the casting?

Take this in mind, as this thread may be RIP'ed at any time, I would not mind another like it opened back up.

This thread has been automatically closed for length.