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Some people have said that everything on Earth was pre-destined. That everything we think, do, and say was already written out for us eons ago and that we really have no control over it. Does anyone believe in pre-destination? In the Theory that God has already designed our lives for us and just watching it happen from above, like a little wind-up toy?


I'm not sure if this topic has already been brought up, because I'd think this was a very popular topic, but I just wanted to discuss this myself. I have a few strong opinions about this.


So what do you guys think?

Our lives very may have been planned out in advance but I think that the Diety that planned out our lives is watching us to see which path we chose, either good or evil.

I truly hope that things are not laid out to the point where I have no control over anything. I would prefer to think that we are on a path and once in a while we actually get to choose our direction.

I somewhat believe in Pre-destination. If there is a God, then it only makes sense that there has to be some sort of a degree of Pre-destination.

i dont believe in destiny... i think that we choose the path we walk on...
day by day...

I think our goals as it were are maped out before we get here....but how we go about attaining them is pretty well up to us.

If our Goals were made for us, how can we choose how we attain them? Doesn't that leave a big chance that we don't reach those Goals with our own choices? I think there is total Pre-destination or there is none of it at all. Physically or Emotionally.

Good question, I've thought about that myself.
The way I see it is that we do have a destiny and a path laid out for us. BUT, there are multiple paths. Every choice you come to, is like every fork in the road. Take one way, it leads somewhere, take the other way, it leads somewhere else.
So all these roads branch off to multiple destinations, but its basically us making the choice.

In Christianity, God gave man free choice, that's why Adam and Eve were banished from the garden, because they made the choice to eat the forbidden fruit.
However, God knows the future, and he created everything, so in a way, God does pre-destine everything and everyone.

Ive always beleived that Its a combinationof Fate and Choice. There are so many interlinking paths for each person.
Its a complex thought/theory.
Great question.

Wow really good question. I think there are some aspects that are planned out and destine to occur. But I also thing we have free will and the choice to change things...

No, I don't. Otherwise what is the point of having free will? The very thought of having my life path laid down for me makes me cringe...

Pre-destined, as in "fated" to a destiny regardless our actions or inaction? No, absolutely not; I do not believe in any such thing.

However, I do believe that we are "fore-ordained" to accomplish our many potentials and missions in life. Whether we actually achieve those potentials and fulfill those missions is entirely within our power and control.

There... my $0.02 worth

I do not believe in pre-destination.
I do not think that it's a very good Theory at all.
And it is probably mostly used as a persuasive implement much like many other coined phrases are used to gain control and urge the membership of a specific path to adhere to their version of norms and morals.

I think that if people were just left alone to run the World all by themselves, the World wouldn't even last a week.

Do you mean the world, or the nations that exist on it? The world would survive perfectly well. Nations however wouldn't.

Hmmm, okay. Let me rephrase that.

The EARTH may survive...possible. The People in it...no way.

Maybe to an extent. However that doesn't mean it's pre-destination or a lack thereof. It's just a reflection of the chaos and destructive power of the human race as a whole.

I think if there was no God. If there was no binding Spirit that watches over us. We wouldn't have a chance...

Do you think that God would take a direct hand in intervening with the path that we humans take? That's not the way it works according to The Bible. That's why he gave us free will. So we could choose our own paths, make our own lives. There is no direct intervention, there is only the choice of something better or different.

Yes I believe we all have a Pre-destination.....but I think it more on the lines of a check out time.
When we are born we start to die and there is a set date and time for that to happen.......but what we do between the time we are born and die .......is called choices. However, it doesn't matter what road we take at any given time the end result is still going to be the same. No matter what. .....we cannot change that pre-marked date and time......

No were not pre-destined for anything. We Choose our paths and which one to follow they don't choose us.

Interesting thought TLH. So we can't change when we die? That's very interesting. Kinda scary...but an interesting thought. Someday though...someday I believe Science will make Immortality.

that is a good question master v um i believe there is something out there to control or we wouldnt last long

but i also believe the powers to be had given us a choice to see how we would do for our selfs ..thats my opinion..

ty vampirika :)

Respectfully I have to say that I really don't see how science could make humans immortal.....the body will wear out and wouldnt be of any use.....
That might be a topic for a different thread :)

Vampirika

Have'nt you heard the old say....more than one way to skin a cat ?

There is allways more than one way I think.

I refuse to believe that we are not in control of our own lives. Everything we do as individuals is by choice and no one can control that.

You can refuse to believe all you want, but you can't change what is. I too hope that I am actually making my own choices instead of me just being a Pawn. That's just an ugly thought.

I have learnd that before we are born we choose the best situation/circumstances to incarnate to, in order to work out old karma and or learn a lesson, or to help someone else learn a lesson. The most important lesson is love, and forgiveness. I try not to pick up any more karma because it has to be worked out and i don't want to have to keep comming back.

Pre-destination does not always mean "it's planned, it's going to happen"
What I think is God and perhaps some gods marks out a plan for our lives according to his will however we can decide to either follow along or take another path. Solid predestination limits free will, which goes against not only human nature but also the nature of the gods.

By whom are all the "Laws" we known were made by? By whom was the Bible made by? By whom were our Morals, Knowledge, and everything else we see and hear made by?


By Men.


So regardless of the Topic, people can't name Laws and say "God can't do this because of this Law". You have never spoken to God, have you?


Pre-destination, if it exists, is made by God. No Law of free will or anything else will or can stop God from doing what he must.

hrm.. I think God doesn't have a "must"

Why put restrictions on him ?
go Further and why put restrictions on us?

Ultimately, I'm the only one who can put restrictions or rules on myself.
Others can state it.. read it , etc...;
but, only I can enforce their rules on me By adhereing to them or breaking them .
That is a fact. They can in their home their internet site, etc.. but that still doesn't actually put their rule on me.
I can walk off, leave etc.
I think pre-destined outcomes are actually hindsight.
It's largely perception.

JMTs & Os

~ Wolf.

Whos to say I or you or all of us arent gods? Or that we havent talked with him? Come to think of it many pagan religions and Christianity call us (humans) gods. As for restrictions in part it is how we define the world around us. Without restriction there is no concept of reality.

Lets please try to come back to a semi-reality here. Lets just pretend for a second that people are people and Gods are Gods, okay? I know that's really tough for all you smart people but please do try.


Thank you...

A curious approach to this.

If you believe in time threading, then you could imagine a time line that spans accross time, and as time passes, there are node that are interconnected and branch off at each node as time passes. Like a large tree.

The lines and nodes represent the "pre-destined" life that lies before us. As we pass from one nod to the next, we are presented with decisions that must be made, where the choice defines the next path or connection to the next node.

This is really useful if you also believe in time travel theroies, where if a critical action is taken during the time travel, it affects which node is travelled to next.

Whether this is defined by a higher being or whether this is how the fabric of time is created and evolved, who knows?

Yes Vampirika, let's get back to reality here.

Nobody makes decisions for me except me, that's it and that's all. You can live in your fantasy world of pre-destination all you want. Truthfully, nobody will know the honest truth to it all. Everybody has their own beliefs, but ffs, use a little common sense and logic here.

For those of us that acknowledge a spiritual guardian, I will state it as thus:

I believe that we are in charge of our "destiny," (and I use that term only as a definition because to use it in this argument completely nulifies my next statment) however our guardian is capable of guiding us towards a proper path for us to follow.

Tough subject. Everyone has their own beliefs. Some believe in God, some do not. Some beleive in Reincarnation, so do not. Different people believe in different things.

Ok, now on pre-destination. I think that some of the major things that happen, such as; kids, marriage, death, and afterlife, are pre-destined. No one is ever goiging to live forever. Either you're going to/be able to have kids, or not. Either you're going to get married or not. There's always a 'do' or 'don't/cant' choice. If that makes sense.

This pre-destination thing does not come from God but by us. Never herad the saying or comment, "It's your destiny." Its yours because you picked it - not God. God has no need to watch or make you do a damn thing. He doesn't have to. He's God! Life is about experiences. We pick them to better ourselves. Its that "life is a gift" thing. As for free-will that is also by I choice. We can always say "no, I changed my choice." God does not gain or loose on this. Its not about Him.

Life is what you make it, there is no pre-destination.

I don't believe in predestination. If that's what's going on here, there's no purpose in anything.

Perhaps it is a little of both, we have our destiny, but we choose how, when, and if we follow our destined path.

If the theory that 'God has predesigned our lives' where does the theory of free will come from? And in such thoughts, is it predestined that some simply live to go to a fiery hell and others simply live to wander through the 'pearly gates'? Seems a bit hopeless to me. If we're predestined to do things why get up in the morning. That in itself is freedom of choice.

I also believe in the theory of free will. That nothing is predestined how else do we have reincarnation, etc. If everything was predestined we would be like robots follow our path and then die. We wouldn't learn anything or understand anything.

I think its like school we are given an assignment to complete and how we do it is up to us. That assignment is something we choose to do, not made to in anyway. Then we are put here to do what we can to achieve the goal we choose to set out to do.

No I don't believe in pre-destination, I believe at birth we have a goal we want to set out to achieve in this lifetime and do what we can to a obtain it. How we reach it and the journey we make is through our choices and free will.

Well said RagingDarkness...life is a journey.. Free will and choice directs that journey.

no.

cause i can choose to end my life or not...


or mabye thats part of the destany....

mabye thats why people have preminitions and stuff, so they can change there dystany.

I personally do not think that peoples lives are pre-destined because people can do as they please i mean everyone makes choices in life and if things were pre-destined then you would no longer need to make choices...

Unless the choices that they make have already been pre-destined!

Somehow I knew I was going to say that...

I believe our journies , " may", have been pre-ordained , but it is up to us to fullfill these journies , for ourselves.

I completely dissagree

I think things formed on their own, and life as we know it is being played out every second at a time, that while it is possible to know the future the future is not set in stone and can change at any given time

maybe it is all destiny.. where one universe goes one way and a parallel one goes another way. that would be addictive to watch as an entity.

on the otherhand it seems hopeless if that is so. id love to think that destiny is only decided by the subject rather than an unseen force. who knows?

pre destination is a realm that many see as an undefine world or multiple issues, all inter depending on the choices you make all giving you a different outcome never given you any warning to of what will be the outcome, as you go along the path it changes constantly. Sort of a path in movement.

If there is a god I think he or she would find it more enertaining to watch us make our own decisions rather than just watching us do what he already knows we are going to do.

A good read about this subject would be the fatalism philosophy of Vasile Conta!
He showed that a certain number of accidents are a natural NECESITY. The stastistics are looking that clearly.
Also the christian free will doctrine is a good point of view too.

My opinion about that:
It is a virtual net of "points" in the Existence of things and events.Human beings can decide and have their superior conscience(helped by intelect).So they can choose between this inevitable dots.
The death moment is fixed for everyone but the way you live until then is important.
I think the path you choose between two "points"(we usually don`t know what or when are this "points") is not without consequences and only you are responsible for that consequences.If you choose the wrong way you spend more "spiritual energy" (or life gift) and God will have to work by his unknown ways to set the things back towards the next "point".
So you should use your "energy" to help God in his ways. The rules for the ways are simple and clear for every human soul (not mind).

I dont believe in pre-destination I control my fate and nothing or no one else does.I am a firm believer in this.

I do belive in pre-destination but not in the in the same pretense as you do. I think are lives are already planed for us but the weavers have strung diffrent threads for us so that we may have diffrent options and paths to chose. so in a way are lives are predestined because the treads are strung we have the choice on wich thread we follow.

i am fond of a good argument but thats not what i want to do here..

pre-destination is usually sapose to be made by our parents or the person that may had raised you..

my parents tryed to get me to walk the right path, i rebelled and went another way thou . but for gods or whom say higher power there is a choice and it could be a bad one or a good one..

im glad i have free will to chose my path..

I think the concept of predestination is an excuse that people use when they make bad decisions and things don't turn out the way one would prefer. I believe in free will and the idea that we, as well as the people around us shape our destiny.

My thoughts are similar to Billy's.

We choose both our path, and our life. What we do each day builds to create the pattern that one day we may be able to see.

Destiny is no more than are you following the path you wish to. Is it right for YOU? You are the only one that can answer that, as you will have to live with what you choose.

Reminder to those who post: Putting down another's belief system goes against the forum rules and will be deleted. Please keep it respectful.

With that said I wanted to add that the idea of the god in man is from bibical verses that state we are born/created in god's image.

Others will argue it is our ability to choose. Dogs and cats to not have the ability to choose. They react to the environment they are kept in. Who they become is through nurture and instinct. While we have more of a choice- if we live consciously.

If we do not, then we choose to live in a state of reaction.

Destiny? Going through the cycles of life through Karma, and re-birth? Could be, then again maybe not.

dragonzblood has my own philosophy - I believe we are born into a life that we choose in order to learn what we set out to learn. In other words, we are placed in situations that bring us face to face to learning. It might mean learning friendship, honesty, humility, etc. Once we have accomplished what we have set out to learn, then we move on to a higher plane of existence...

I don't belive in pre deestination because we can and have a free will and our mind is ours.

free will is one major thing we do have, and I believe we have a destiny yet, we also have choices that can change and alter our destiny. Yet, I feel that no matter what we all have a pre-destination of death is how I feel.

I believe that our Destiny is mapped out for us to a point. What happens after we make the final decision is based solely on us. It would be sad to think that we are not in any control over what happens to us.

well I do feel that there are many things that are already mapped out for us in this thing we call life. Yet also that the choices we make could have a huge inpact on the final outcome, like we could die sooner due to the choice we had made that day or live longer due to it. We are dying from the time we are born yet is there really a timer on our life span, this is a really good question and thread.

i have hear the same thing in fact it was out of a pastors mouth and i dont agree i mean how is it even possible ........if it even were possible it would hardly be fain in any sence

I just can't believe in pre-destination. Personally, I rather believe this life is a test and the choices and actions we take determine our afterlife.

*Taninriff* perhaps we live many lives...and what comes next is determined by how well we accomplished our missions as we go...

Sahahria - I'm an animal lover, including humans, and I just can't shake the idea that we, humans, are not all that different than my dog. Not that I feel I have an exceptionally smart dog, just that conciously living basically breaks down to the same way my dog lives.

He lives based on what he is given. He can choose to eat or not eat his own food. Typically he chooses not to eat his own food but instead eats my wife's dog's food. Pavlov was right to a point, but then he worked with a controlled situation. He didn't take into consideration a competing dog, a dog's ego, and family.

Living conciously is what has driven the human race to build bigger, faster, more destructive things just so we could have something more than the other dog. Granted, it has also driven us to perform "random acts of kindness", but my dog is also a good dog and shares his bed with the other pooch out of love and, ultimately, choice.

Back on topic - Pre destination as it applies to religion. I don't believe there is a seperate entity sitting on high opening and closing gates like rats in a science experiment trying to find the cheese through a maze. We are more like the plight of a photon making its way from the core of the Sun to the Earth, and in this way our path has been chosen and can be predicted. The randomness of that path as we interact with our environment makes it that much more difficult, but predictable nonetheless.

i believe in pre-destination to a point i think whatever higher power that my be has it set out with many twists and turns and choices and that we keep reliving our lives until we have achieved perfection

UpirLikhyj,Im with you 110% on this one.Otherwise why would we even have free will to begin with?

nope...

IMO and infinite amount of possibilities exist and each has the capability to be the one you are currently experienceing.

No. I don't believe our lives are pre-destined. I believe each of us are in control of our own actions & decisions.

What would be the point in our path already being destined? As "God" or whoever, would already know what was going to happen.

things happen for a reason but nothing is pre-destine

I don't believe in any form of pre-destination. I also find the concept of pre-destination incompatible with Christianity either as it leads to a major logical fallacy:

Christian theology is based on the concept of sin - going back to the original sin. If sin up to and including original sin was not a free choice (i.e. if it was pre-destined), then humanity can't be held cosmically responsible for it.

gh

I believe its not so much pre-destined but you make an obligation to achieve a particular goal in this life time... sometimes you reach the goal sometimes you have to come back and take another stab at it.

Well my personal thought is that the main path that our lives follow is pre-destined. We are set on that path but we still have control for the fact that along the way there are other pathes that lead to others and so on and its all based on what decisions we make. Its all different from other peopls paths and at times they may intersect but each persons path was laid out and created for them to see what they would do, just like a rat in a maze trying to find the cheese it will go around the maze over and over again take different turns and facing obstacles until it gives up or finds the prize we're nothing but a rat in a maze of life

*looks around.....*

*blah blah blah*

Well, I refuse to believe I'm a puppet & my strings get pulled :)

What if your being pushed, not pulled?

lol, I don't feel I'm pushed or pulled by anything, I just find the idea ridiculous, what would be the point in it?

What would be the point in "whoever" already knowing whats going to happen?

I agree with you that there is no separate entity pushing or pulling, but I do believe there are elemental factors that can predetermine each of our paths.

Do you believe that Astrology is legitimate?

I'm a bit skeptical about astrology

Fair enough.

What about cosmochemistry?

Nope. I don't know what I think :P

I think that part of our life such as birth and death is planned but the rest is on us

i am a disbeliever in this for if that was so then why would we exist if there was a god and he already knew how it would become of us in begining to end.

i believe in life we are given choices and in those choices that we choose we make our own destiny,i find that our fate is in our own hands and in the expieriences we have all had in our past lives.

no i think the only the that
pre-determinds the futur is the choices made in the past

(Plz forgive spell)

Many religions believe that God is all knowing, if that is the case wouldn't s/he already know what will become of us? We have free will but if someone or anyone already sees the future, isn't it considered destiny?

But here is the funny thing about that....Most cultures believe that all humans were given free will by God/Gods/Godesses etc.

If this is so then how can our fate be Pre-Destination?

I have always thought I was a pupet... mistress more water for your obedient slave. Bwahahahahhaha. If this story is already writen why play along. hmmmm

I don't believe in pre - destiny I figure we make what we are of ourselves

we all have a 50/50 chance that our life might be plained out for us but we have a major part in what we do and what path that we walk on.

not our INTIRE life...but certin tidbits.

and our deitys, watch over us, and guide us. if some1 has a dark deity, they turnm dark themself.

but i dont think our life is 100% planned out....mabye 5%...but not 100%

yes i believe our lives are pre destined but that doesnt mean we end up the way we are supposed to be. we chose what paths we take and if we chose the wrong way then we change our destinys. i dont think the pre destinations are set in stone.

I think every thing happens for its own reason's but pre-destination i do not believe in that means we are mindless drones to some superpower i am a full believer in chaos theory which i believe eplains alot about human life in general. and for all you hear sayers i know chaus theory is generally refered to atoms and such but whats more chaotic then life its self

But, with predestination, the results of our decisions and choices will have already decided in advance.

Because we "made" our choice does not mean that the result of our choice was not already pre-determined.

Some how I knew that I would say that...

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