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A common fact about astral guidance or the stars or horoscopes is more people follow and believe in them than any religion.
My question is two fold.
Do vampires here in the forum follow their horoscope, and part two does it change from the one you got when born as being born again into vampire might be seen as a birth of sorts?

Your mom is bigger than religion. Hah! I'm funny.

I didn't realize more people believe in horoscopes than religion. Do you have sources on this?

I would figure, in a world where people get turned into vampires, and if that particular vampires believed in astrology, then it would be a personal choice of whether or not they'd want a second astrological sign. If it were me, yeah, I'd probably keep track of it, because I'd probably be turned so mentally ass-backwards by being introduced to a world that I had previously thought fictional that it would seem as though it might be significant.

Since you asked about vampires on this forum, however, I'm assuming you mean the folks who either believe they have an as-yet unrecognized medical condition or feel they need to drain people's life energy in order to function properly. In that case, then these folks aren't "made" into vampires; they're born that way. They may show signs of their vampirism early in life, or much later in life. When they do go through what's called the awakening, the awakening process can be long enough to exceed the month or so within a certain sign.

So, I'd have to say that one astrological sign would be fine. But, maybe some of these folks will have something different to say.

me too, didnt know that? wheres the stats on that? for the second part of the question, for me the answer is - No

I have found that what astrology says about my character ect are spot on but that the horoscopes themselves are fairly useless.

So yes I love astrology, but not horoscopes.

and if you ask me a vamprie being 'turned' makes no difference.

technically if one turns into a creature of the night, they are *dead*. i would think that immortal life would harden one's beliefs in fate and the like, because you then escape the ultimate fate: physical death.

as for me, my horoscope is an amusing start to my day. sometimes it comes true, most of the time it doesn't.

(Chuckles)Arunima, what is it with you and your MOTHER???

Anywho, Lav I think I am understanding this question for a specific answer...

I at times do follow my horrorscope, which sometimes is accurate. But, since I was born into the bloodlines, I had my awakening at a very young age...To young to even remember what sun sign it would have been to be distinct about changing it up according to the awakening sign.

But I am sure, that if one thought about the concept, they would follow the leader like the sheep they are, and comform to yet another implication of what the term "vampire" means.

I had a couple of astrological charts drawn up for me when I was a kid, but my family is quite into that kind of thing. I don't put much stock in them myself, I am a big fan of free will:)

Who ever said anything about members of the Rave being religious folk? Once again I think Mr. Socko needs to speak for ones self.

just my opinion.

"Who says? Who says astrology is bigger than religion? I think that wicca cult must be brainwashing people again!"

Sockpuppet, I may be mistaken, but Wicca is classified as a religion - and when you think about it, you could classify all religions as cults!

As for the subject itself, I believe it's best to go by the date of your birth, the day you left your mother's womb.

However, I am not a vampire and I personally do not follow horoscopes. Horoscopes are generalizations, and are good for a laugh sometimes.

Believe Don’t believe Not sure
God 92% 5 3
Heaven 85% 10 5
Miracles 82% 14 4
Angels 78% 15 7
Hell 74% 20 6
The Devil 71% 24 5
Ghosts 34% 60 6
UFOs 34% 55 11
Astrology 29% 64 7
Reincarnation 25% 62 13
Witches 24% 69 7


Past surveys:

• God

Believe Don’t believe Not sure
23-24 Sep 03 92% 5 3
17-18 July 02 (NA) 92% 6 2
25-26 July 01 91% 6 3
24-25 March 99 92% 4 4
29-30 Oct 97 95% 3 2
5-6 Feb 97 94% 4 2


• Heaven

Believe Don’t believe Not sure
23-24 Sep 03 85% 10 5
17-18 July 02 (NA) 85% 10 5
25-26 July 01 86% 10 4
24-25 March 99 87% 8 5
29-30 Oct 97 88% 9 3


• Miracles

Believe Don’t believe Not sure
23-24 Sep 03 82% 14 4
17-18 July 02 (NA) 85% 12 3
25-26 July 01 84% 12 4
28-29 July 99 79% 18 3
29-30 Oct 97 84% 13 3


• Angels

Believe Don’t believe Not sure
23-24 Sep 03 78% 15 7
17-18 July 02 (NA) 81% 14 5
25-26 July 01 72% 22 6
28-29 July 99 73% 19 8
29-30 Oct 97 76% 20 4


• Hell

Believe Don’t believe Not sure
23-24 Sep 03 74% 20 6
17-18 July 02 (NA) 71% 24 5
25-26 July 01 72% 22 6
24-25 March 99 70% 23 7
29-30 Oct 97 71% 24 5


• Ghosts

Believe Don’t believe Not sure
23-24 Sep 03 34% 60 6
17-18 July 02 (NA) 41% 51 8
25-26 July 01 39% 51 10
28-29 July 99 37% 54 9
19-20 May 99 28% 68 4
29-30 Oct 97 30% 63 7


• UFOs

Believe Don’t believe Not sure
23-24 Sep 03 34% 55 11
17-18 July 02 (NA) 27% 62 11
25-26 July 01 27% 63 10
29-30 Oct 97 29% 58 13


• Astrology

Believe Don’t believe Not sure
23-24 Sep 03 29% 64 7
17-18 July 02 (NA) 34% 57 9
25-26 July 01 23% 72 5
29-30 Oct 97 31% 61 8


• Reincarnation

Believe Don’t believe Not sure
23-24 Sep 03 25% 62 13
17-18 July 02 (NA) 24% 64 12
25-26 July 01 23% 67 10
28-29 July 99 24% 65 11
29-30 Oct 97 24% 66 10


• Witches

Believe Don’t believe Not sure
23-24 Sep 03 24% 69 7
17-18 July 02 (NA) 29% 66 5
28-29 July 99 28% 66 6

Info came from FOXNEWS.com A bit dated,but I'll see if I can find a newer one.

Finally, moving away from Christianity to more exotic beliefs, 67% of people say they have more faith in astrology than organised religion. It’s difficult to know what to make of that - is it a sign that people take astrology seriously, or a sign they don’t respect organised religion? Going back to MORI’s 2003 poll only 33% of people believed in astrology, suggesting it is more the latter.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/64

http://www.macleans.ca/article.jsp?content=20060701_129959_129959

Oceanne made good points there.

To summarize the main parts of the UK Polling Report that pertain to this article:

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/64

70% of people told Populus they believed in God or some form of higher power

Finally, moving away from Christianity to more exotic beliefs, 67% of people say they have more faith in astrology than organised religion.



Those are direct quotes from the article itself. When I went to school, 70% was more than 67%, thus the claim that astrology is bigger than religion is incorrect.

Darwin's Black Box for your reading pleasure.

For one Mr. Socko, Crowley is neither wiccan, nor did he represent the pathway of the wiccan by any means. He spoke for himself and was never an embassador to any wiccan belief system...This would be conspiracy theory.

Two, this is a good reason why religious discussion and debate is not celebrated on the Rave...To much arguementive speak.

Wicca, was confirmed a religion actually documented federally in 1972. It also won a court case in 1985, concerning an appeal that it was equal to all other religions.

So if you are going to spew out your zionist crap, at least have half proof of your opinions to back them up.

This is my rant for the night. Carry on.

(All apologies to Rave members, Dominars, and Admin.)

It appears so jdenoyon.I have yet to find any statistics that claim otherwise.But then,its late,Im tired and my eyes are crossed.

On the other hand Astrology has been around a long damn time.
Anyway,thought you might like this.

Hey,isnt Astrology considered a religion? Technically?

Thanks for that linki SS.
I had always believed that Astrology had been entertwined in both scence and religion,so this thread ,thus my bringing up the question.

Soulshroude:

Hey now, your mom jokes never get old. Just the person making them. *g*

"But I am sure, that if one thought about the concept, they would follow the leader like the sheep they are, and conform to yet another implication of what the term "vampire" means."

I'm honestly not sure what implication of the term "vampire" my fluffy behind is supposed to be tailing. *g* Do you mean that if weaker-minded folk thought about astrology in conjunction with a more fictional type of vampire, they would believe said vampire would need a second horoscope? Or are you referring to people who believe in real vampires, but have not actually studied them, and will therefore believe pretty much whatever is thrown out there and makes sense to them in conjunction with false ideas they already have?

I think Sockpuppet was joking about the Jews...also, if one doesn't realize Wicca was officially accepted as a religion by the government, it would be easy to call Wicca a cult...at least in a now-generally accepted use of the term "cult", which means a group of potentially dangerous fanatics, either to themselves, others, or just the gene pool. However, the term "cult" is actually supposed to be used to describe a religious movement that focuses on one person or god (according the definition in The World's Religions, William A. Young). The negative connotations of the term "cult" was helped along by the media and Jim Jones.

Also, I think it's fun to say "Sockpuppet rocks my socks".

And you're right, Soulshroude; I believe this topic has gotten a bit out of hand.

Heh.

There's also a ton of other things that could be considered religions. Materialism, and yeah, real vampirism are among them. I wrote a paper for my Comparative Religion class on modern vampirism becoming a religion.

Hmm, I wonder if it would be accepted in the articles section.

*runs to find out*

Horoscopes are syndicated in newspapers and online throughout the world, which is an indication of their popularity. Whether that makes them "bigger than religion" is not clear to me.

Vampires, by whatever means they got to be that way, are stuck with their same old sun sign forevermore. The stars do not realign just because they've joined the ranks of the undead.

good response bloodmother, which i was going to post, horescopes are interpatations of humans or printed out of random thoughs of computers. yet my Aunt believes in a form of tarot cards and swears by them.A form is a playing deck of cards which she was raised as every card holds a secret or a glimpse to the future.

Cadrewolf, I've had my cards "read" many times. The best readers used them as a prop (and I don't mean that in a negative sense) to jar their own intuition re the person sitting across from them. The very best reader also liked to look at my palm, but I now think she did that to touch me.

Ok I see this one went out of bounds.
Statistic and manipulation are amazing on this forum.
I find things with a thousand to one chance of happening happen 9 times out of 10.
Still different faiths have x amount of people in each box. However all boxes have a high amount of people who follow horoscopes and what not lumped under astrology following.

And thank you Oceanne for the zeitgeist link so whish all would watch the whole movie as it will be world viewed march 18th, so don’t be the only one asking what is www.zeitgeistmovie.com lol

My mother seemed to believe in zodiac signs and paid attention to horoscopes. I've never had a horoscope done for me, and I find that the characteristics described by zodiac signs tend to be limiting. I have the most fun with horoscopes when I read them for the previous day and try and find something that happened to me that fits. They are usually worded in a ambiguous enough manner that something may fit. Maybe that is their nature.

I think that a vampire would have to keep the zodiac sign from it's birth.

But you know, the constellations have moved in relation to earth's orbit over the millenium, and the calandar has changed. Has anyone attempted to use a calandar that was present when the consellations in the zodiac were first determined. If the sun rises or set in a certain constellation on a day, and we use that as a determining factor, if the calanadar is different, wouldn't the horoscope be different.?

Do horoscopes based on western philosophy compare to ones from different parts of the world and different cultures where they may use consellations that don't match the greek/roman constaellations? For instance, how does a horoscope based on the zodiac compare to the year based systems used in china?

yes the chinees zodiac is part of astroligy

Karl Marx was correct by saying that organized religion is the opiate of the masses. It doesn't matter what religion or spiritual practice you've decided to partake in.

When realizing this, all religious arguments can be reduced to a simple equation of who has more blue crayons than who, and who's deity's spaceship ... well... that part involves genitalia, so I'm sure you get the drift.

Point is, everyone does it.

we have the potential for many "rebirths" during our livetime but as far as astrology is concerned, i believe it only counts the actual birth date/time/and configuration of the heavens at the time of birth. any subsequent rebirths, be it into a vampire or a born again christian do not "reset" your astrological clock. It's fixed to the date of birth from the mothers womb.

I enjoy watching the horoscopes but I don't ever make a decision based on what it says. Often I don't give it a second thought once I read it.

So I think the original question was, in my own words: If a person was to become a "vampire" in the classical sense, you know bit on the neck, turned in to an undead blood sucker like Lestat for example, would they now have an "undead" zodiac sign from their time of death/rebirth?
(here it comes...)
Sure, why not? You are discussing an imaginary thing and anything can be spun into an imaginary situation.
I

Maybe some do and others don't. Whos to say. As for the second question I don't believe it changes when you are turned because you already exist and living.

Well in the 1996 gallup poll which is when I last looked 25 percent surveyed believed that the position of the stars and planets affected their lives. similar studies reveal that 9 put of ten Americans know their astrological sign and that’s a staggering 70 percent of them would occasionally consult their horoscopes for advice and direction…. So what does this all mean…. More people believe n the tenets of astrology than any single religious belief world wide…. When it comes to the average news paper the inclusion of horoscopes is as important as the sport and local news….

No this is not the beetles quote this is factual but you comment can go in “ strawberry fields forever”

As john said and wise words they are too …
Imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try,
No hell below us, above us only sky,
Imagine all the people, living for today.
Imagine there's no countries, it isn't hard to do,
Nothing to kill or die for, and no religion too,
Imagine all the people, living life in peace.
You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one,
I hope someday you'll join us, and the world will be as one.
Imagine no possessions, I wonder if you can,
No need for greed or hunger, a brotherhood of man,
Imagine all the people, sharing all the world.
You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one,
I hope someday you'll join us, and the world will live as one.
And read our horoscopes lol

oh yes that was a cool read wasnt it, oh ok well my feeling on this, my mother us to read me my horescopes every day but as it seems i never followed them . maybe something that i remembered during the day i did think ya that was in my horescope but ya i cant live by them cause there not all true to me

Thank you for your imput theshining1 nothing to do may I add with the original question lol
Drive by post are so messy sometimes lol

So your mum made you read them as a guide or a bit of fun as lots of people do which is one point im making.
The second does your sign change from birth to a new one with your vampire symbolic death?

lavisbre yes to the first question my mom read them to me as i really didnt like to read them so she want to see if any of the horescope matches me of the day goes by but as the second question i have no clue what your talking about....

i dont go by them but i live by the fact im a gemini born on june.. thats all i no.. rhanks for asking lavisbre

I have also heard that more people follow horoscopes and astrology then religions and it seems to make sense to me because people of all religions will check out their horoscopes

I'd say I have more belief in Chinese Astrology than Western astrology, my Chinese horoscope always seems so accurate!

Too much of it is generalization. I don't believe it's just "mine".

The belief in horoscopes always depends on the vampire. Whether they chose to or not. I personally follow both my Western and Eastern zodiac. And I follow my the year of my "mortal" birth. Because honestly there is no "immortal" birth.

Considering I am only a psy vamp (honestly didn't know this until I heard the label) I wasn't "reborn".

As for my horoscope - I look at both my sign and my rising sign. Sometimes my rising sign is more accurate. Some horoscopes can be so loosely interperated that anyone would see something of themself in it.

Now, as far as my horoscope based on the time, place and exact time of my actual birth - yep it's right on time.

Now -pass the popcorn so I can watch these posts go WAY off track again.

I do follow my horoscopes but I believe in my religion much more.

asks Daemona to move over and pass the popcorn as the derailment persist lol

I understand religion is personal.. im just saying more people read the stars than believe in any one faction of any one religion… logic really… and the reason it is in the news paper a media giant that feeds the mass a negative diet of scandal and agendas even bothers with something as pointed out by deamona ( who is eating all the popcorn as I speak) for the stars to be accurate they need to be personal with dates n times of birth extra … yet still we read them as we know just like the weather it’s wrong to may times to be a science and right just enough to keep our hopes up lol

i'm a Taurus through and through and i was born being what i am, no offense ya'll, so when i consult Astrology (mostly for grins n' giggles), i look under "Taurus".

^^

very cryptic; are you suggesting that vampires should refer to the month and day of when they "awaken" as their correct Astrological sign?

Me cryptic? Who told you I like crypts lol
No I meant shadownights answer lol

Ah the inability to explain and express myself … after all tone, pitch, body language, speed etcetera all help communicate… I only have myself to blame.

I did wonder if astral sign changed with you understanding what you are and that becomes a new date or twin sign… not like the other twin we have one born same day time ect.. a zodiac twin… I wonder if they would make good friends?

wow, to wrap my mind around that one, would be nigh near impossible. nope, i stick to my human birthdate as i was born "knowing". JMHO.

Vampires and horoscopes don't seem like they would mix too well.

astrology is more of a science than a religion. it uses astromony to find how planets influence people. religion (organized or not) or cult or just your neighborhood smoke out is a fellowship of people getting together to celebrate a ideaology.

Well as usual, lavisbre's words took me a little bit to understand. From what I understood, you said something is bigger than religion!? Wow..

Secondly, yes I follow my horoscope.

Lastly.. I'm not sure what that meant..

I think that if a vampire is created (turned) astrology no longer plays a part in their life. Or at least they are thrown off the original path they were first born on.

He says vampires on VR, which I will guess, are not real vampires. In light of that, nothing changes in my opinion.

harsh lol
no vampires on VR?

for we are many
i guess it depends on what you think is a vampire you dont find much on VR

hmm - trouble is we only have statistics on people that have taken part in surveys. do we know what percentage of people never take part in surveys?

Well I don't think it would change and it all boils down to the believer. I don't believe the horoscope in the newspapers and therefore they don't affect my life as I am not looking for the connections in my real life. So therefore if I was reborn as a vampire my beliefs would follow me... if any of that made sense.

For sure loreleix for you this question does not apply for you are not the majority this post was aimed at… thanks thou lol

I love to read my horoscope. After my day is through. Usually it is very correct.

I'll spare the continued pummeling about "...more people follow and believe in them than any religion..."

I'll just get to answering the questions.

Do vampires here in the forum follow their horoscope?

That would depend on whether they choose to believe in their horoscopes. Some have faith in horoscopes and astrology, others don'.t.

Does it change from the one you got when born as being born again into vampire might be seen as a birth of sorts?

Once again, it will be whatever the vamp wants to believe or not believe in a transition due to their birth/death.

astrology is a funny thing. litterally billions of people read their hororscopes every day, but just because they read them doesnt mean they actually believe them. its like lots of people watch the soaps, but only a small percentage actually think its real. people read a horoscope in the same way they might read a fortune cookie, or toss a coin. it might help them make a decision, or it might just make them feel a little more optimistic.

i've studied astrology, and i believe there is something in it - it is certainly a very accurate system of measurement, but in truth the daily horoscope you see in a newspaper or magazine has absolutely nothing to do with astrology. most of the time the advice in a horoscope column is made up randomly by someone who knows absolutely nothing of astrology.

so no - i dont read my horoscope, but i do use other forms of divination.

the original point that more people believe in astrology or horoscopes than follow a religion is a little fatuous, as one does not exclude the other. most people that have a religious belief in some way, will also believe in divination, but there are many people with no particular religion who also believe in divination. Anyway, how can you tell? statistically qa person is often said to belong to a particular faith whether they follow that faith or not. every place of worship has a fair number of atheists and agnostics in it who are there because they have no choice - that does not make them believers. how many soldiers have their designated religion on their paperwork? all of them - yet how many are really believers?

btw puppet - most civilised nations consider anti-semitism to be rather passe, not to mention wrong in every asspect. all the same there is a law against brothers and sisters producing retarded offspring, so i blame your parents.

sorry Karnstein astroligy and a soap TV show have nothing in common to compare... you have only moved a goal post to win your view...

Re Soulshrouds post

and i quote.......

"Posted: 09:49:06 - Jan 30 2008

Wicca, was confirmed a religion actually documented federally in 1972. It also won a court case in 1985, concerning an appeal that it was equal to all other religions."

I wholeheartedly agree with what soulshroud has posted here. Not only that but there is also the fact that in some countries a pagan/wiccan marriage is legally binding. In the UK it is not yet acknowledged as a legal and binding marriage, but in 2012 it will become legally binding according to new legislation submitted by our government.

I am not specifically a religious person, but I do respect all religions and peoples belief in whatever they wish to believe in. A person cannot possibly shun another because they do not have the same beliefs.

That said, I think Mr Socko needs to understand that there will always be a place for the various religions in this world, whether we like it or not, it is a way for people to understand the things that science cannot explain.

Mener

No I was born a tauras and I will die a tauras.

I don't really follow horoscopes because they're always inaccurate. Also I believe you're still the same sign that you were born under no matter if you become a vampire or not.

i wasn'r comparing the science of astrology with soap operas. daily horoscopes in a periodical are nothing to do with astrology, but most people think it is. in truth relatively few people have had any contact with true astrology. to make a true horoscope, you need to know the exact time of birth, and the geographical location.

any journalist will tell you that newspaper "horoscopes" are just made up, and there is no astrology involved. most people know this, and dont care. what i am saying is just because someone reads their horoscope does not mean they actually believe it. i'm going to make another comparison - an undeniably more accurate one. it's like doing the crossword puzzle, reading the cartoon page, or reading the letters "written" to the agony aunt.

i'd also like to draw attention to the fact the original post for this thread did not claim that more people believe in astrology than believe in religion or believe in a god, but believe in an organised religion. whether you consider Wicca to be an organised religion or not is a matter of semantics. generally speaking as people have been exposed to more of the outside world than their own family background or their own small village, they have become more cynical of "organised religions", whilst still believing in theological concepts generally.

Guttenberg started it all.

oops - sorry Lavsibre - it wasn't you who specifically said "organised religion", but i assumed thats what you meant.

I think many people follow the horoscopes even when it is not recognized by their religion..

I agree with you wensala. many are interested in what the horoscope says even when they dont really know their stand.

I wonder out of those of you whom do follow your horoscope, do you also believe in taro cards?

tarot cards are just a tool. nothing more special than a regular deck of cards. which is what tarot cards actually are. astrology is a science that has been practiced since the middle ages. horoscopes are just a piece of astrology that has been generalized in order to fit everyone. every astrological sign has traits that will fit everyone born under it.

I don't follow my horoscope, but I don't htink it would change because of my being turned. I may not remember the years before but they still happened.

I read my horoscope, but its not always accurate. I think Its more like a guideline in either case.

I wouldn't think that a vampire's awakening would come into play with the horoscope They already exist...they are just in another form of existance.

i don't know about this - i mean, if it were true, then anyone could change their destiny by undergoing a "rebirth" ceremony on a date of their own choosing. that rings a bell - wasnt that a plot device in a dennis wheatley novel?

I beg to differ, but CHRISTIANITY is the most followed religion in this world. I do follow my horiscope daily, but I personally don't think it would change

Ok let's start. Horoscopes in the papers are only for fun. Ment for the masses. So maybe will apply to you or not. A vampire is born under one sign & personality is already set so your stuck with that sign.

islam is actually the largest religion in the world at the moment. christianity is large but i do not belive has ever been the largest.

do people actually read the post of the people above. it just seems many people are not adding only repeating.

Horoscopes? No. Now signs? Sure. Like I'm Cancer, and lots of the qualitys of a canerian reflect into me.

Depending on the definitions you choose to use a cult is religious practice, thus all religions are cults. The delusions of one person is insanity, delusions of a few a cult, and by many a religion.