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Is magic an illusion?
I often wondered some times when were performing our magic is it an illusion like the magic magicans use? Or is it real and not an illusion?.Magicians were often a cused of witchcraft
I know through magic rekindle our child hood.
It was discovered in 1584 from Reginald Scot. He revealed how magicians did some common illusions to show that they used natural methods not witchy powers.
Can any one explain this

As I see it there are two forms of magic(magick). Magic is the kind when referring to stage magic, the type that magicians use. (Most of which, yes I do believe is all illusion.) Magick is spelled with a 'k' to differientiate it from stage magic. Magick is witchcraft and spellcraft. This type is not an illusion, but is a learned and time tested practice and artform among many witches and pagans.

Sometimes magic is an illusion ... but one has to believe in the magic or it might not work ... it would take a lot of energy to do magic for a none believer which would be well worth the drain if it makes them a believer ... cause it takes believers to proform the magic and believers to receive the magic.

I concur with Nocturnal. There are two forms; magic, the illusion and magick sometimes referred to as "paranormal magic" which involves influencing events and physical phenomena by supernatural, mystical, or paranormal means (per wiki). A willed action leading to intended change.

It depends on what type of magic you mean.

Obviously 'natural' magic is not. Such as child-birth and the like.

After reading quite a bit on the skeptic's dictionary dot com, and also doing research into cold readings and NLP, I don't think either forms of magic are illusions. I think they are time tested techniques to move belief. That is why both forms require practice. Heck, lump medicine in with magic, and magick too. I'm going to try to propose below that they're all essentially the same thing.

Example: "Psychic surgery" has been shown to aid in remission of cancer. Chemotherapy has been shown to aid in remission of cancer. Eating appleseeds which are semi-poisonus, was shown to aid in remission of cancer. Same thing can be said for angels, power of belief, reiki, etc.

What works the best? Well, it depends on whom you ask. Some would swear by chemotherapy, some would say they tried it and it did nothing, they needed to find alternative "healing."

Could you say what healed them was their own power of belief? Whatever method they believed would work?

Or you could say, "Nah, it's just simple numbers. Statistics show that it will always be the last thing they try!"

In any case. The magician uses slight of hand to make their audience believe. The surgeon uses a form of slight of hand, too. As does a cook, or someone working a spell, or someone playing the violin.

If it requires practice, one could say it is most certainly not an illusion.

I believe that the accepting of that which seems possible, the suspension of disbelief is the greatest magic, and that we perform daily if we allow ourselves to.

I believe natural magic is not an illusion, yet to say some illusinist now perform on the bases of trickery to their audience. this i would consider an illusion, natural magic of life would not fall into this.

yes, most of it is --- and the rest of it I think is mind over matter .....

I believe in what Satansbride said because Magic is an Illusion. It makes people believe that unexplain things can be real.

MAGIC, n.
An art of converting superstition into coin.

Illusion or delusion ?....I can only say I have never enjoyed magic tricks or been drawn to magic spells etc.

So to me personally it means nothing.

I have read post and journals which tell me it means a great deal to some people.

If they find joy in it, I wish them well.

I don't know I guess some of it would be a illusion but who is to say for sure :)

I think tha magic like magician stuff is all a illusion...wo knos maybe there is real magic out there id like 2 think so.

I once had a wiccan priest tell me that at times, if illusion will do the same as natural magic, then it's easier to just do an illusion (whether that be flash paper, or mirrors or whatever). Most practitioners of ritual magic know that regardless of success or failure, a lot of preparation and personal energy go into a rite. So if that can be avoided or kept in reserve, then use an illusion.

Now others will say that even the most powerful of spells is itself an illusion. A self fulfilling prophecy brought to life through self delusion and self illusion. That's going to end up being a personal judgement call on your own beliefs.

Very well said.

So much for rehashing -- I believe as Nocturnal Goddess stated: Magic is the art of illusion/deception of the senses. Magick is the practice of rites, rituals, beliefs that yield results by use of elemental sources; both good and evil.

If Ritual Magik studies where over looked some science would have been delayed.If magic was thought real then there would have and continue to be exploitation of believers.If magik is delving into untaped resources, in ways other then slight of hand.

The mind can be drawn to see things that can be enhanced to affect a goal involving the target object, or person(s) included in the casters range.

Prayer being like a collective focus( mantras as well) have shown me personally that there is something there that keeps me optimistic that the mind (as well as the collective mind) is capable of
of amazing feats... But there is disapline involved
all the things that effect something so subtle must be taken into account, those that delve into such things do so for intent good or bad, or even indifferent.As my studies cross into claims from would be warlocks and commercial witches I would say they are prone to exploitation by authors that use such deceptions to cast the followers of there teaching into quest for obvious power, making wild claims as to the use and application to Mystic Forces, yet then you hear about plagerism charges
and bilk scams run by authors and i feel sorry for the victims of dark Magik they wanted only to gain the upper hand on a life struggle and they get bilked, they except something at face value, magik goes below that for me.I recognize such forces yet I let nobody charge me for knowledge relating to them. There are already text available. If you study them, using cross reference, then you may discover
the material to find your personal link to such craft.
But do realize it never happens "Wham, Bam, thank you magik."and anybody that tells you it does will likely sell you a bridge as well.

Magic is magic and illusion is illusion. If magic was an illusion, it was never magic.

absolutly... sum magicians even reveal their tricks... chris angel reveals how to levitate

Magicians use illusions... witches use energy manipulation and manifestation to create their magick so they are both completely different in my books.

Magic for entertainment puposes is illusion. I think most people understand the the magician's art is showmanship. As far as supernatural magick, I leave that up to the individual practicioner to determine if their magick is illusion or not.

magic is real! i now i can use magic. and im pretty damn young! i mean, who here dosent belive in magic! were here becoase vampires are basic magic. plus they can have many diffrnet elements by the breed. mail me, and ill tell ya more!

I forgot to add.

Any other type of magic-k. I think it is an illusion. But then again I'm one who doesn't believe anything outside the relm of natural can happen.

Here is a rather long winded thing I wrote in my journal on magic as entertainment. For those who won't bother to read it in its entirety, it basically boils down to what you take away from the illusion. The feelings associated with a solid experience are real and and can be enlightening. That is pretty magical in itself.

"When you do sleight of hand for a person up close you can see their expressions drop away and the moment of astonishment hit them like a freight train. You can make jokes, use THE SPECTATOR as a prop, ask them questions, let them ask questions etc etc. Its a beautiful thing.

After all, the beauty of magic isn't really about what I can do with everyday objects. Its about what YOU can take away from the experience. Its all about context and human interaction.

I didn't learn this funny little thing to get laid or make people laugh (even though its a hell of an ice breaker), Its all about people.

You can learn a lot about an individual by showing them a bit of astonishment. Do they panic.. do they laugh... do they scream... do they just stand there and look at you, or do they do something else? Not only that, but how do you react to their reaction. Think about that perspective for a second...

The actual magic is when the moment hits the people watching and everything falls away. When it makes them wonder about reality and they reach that borderline euphoric/panic state of mind. That is where dreams and nightmares come from. It is a very worthwhile pursuit.

It is an art. In fact, many of the best pieces incorporate music, visual images, rhymes and so forth. When you see a professional he doesn't just show you a trick and move on. Everything has a theme and mood. Its like crossing jazz with classical music. There is a definite underlying structure and texture but when you add the human interaction you have to "freestyle" your responses so it feels organic and doesn't inhibit the flow. It has movements and gaps. It has texture.

People trivialize sleight of hand as something for kids or for laughs or something else, but there is much to learn from a good experience dabbling in astonishment."

well stated

If I guide a person to question what they saw right before their eyes, they will be less likely to fall for a shady play on their impressionable perception.

just as well if a majik ritual is cast, and a their awareness to the situation is raised so that they effect the spell then the purpose is served, whether or not the person is likely too credit the ritual.

magick is all real some made to be illusion others not, you must believe in most cases to understand

Magic is thought of in two different ways something you can see and somethings you can not see. Illusions are a type of magic that doesn't make them anyless real.

Magic is what we see when we are in front of the screen. Craft is what happens behind the screen.

Magik is so subtle, it is subject to dismissal, as coincidence. Both can be correct. If manipulation or present matter is geared or rigged to create a perceivable effect it is magic.

Magic is all around us. It is in creation itself and that is no illusion!

So magick in the craft, is real it works as long as the practitioner believes it works. It has a lot to do with the power of the mind. To me there is no illusion in that. Illusion cleanly means fake or not real... witchcraft is definitely not a toy to play with, so it is very real.

criss angel is an illusion lol, eventhough its not as impressive as magic but creating an illusion which may seem unreal is very amazing to me either way real or not magicians are talented

A magicians seldom believe they are actually sawing a person in half. The ones that go out of their way to make others think they are are deceptive people.

Magic is in the eye of the beholder, whether the stage magic of Houdini or Criss Angel. The magician creates an illusion which the observer interprets as real, it happens before your very eyes.
Then there is Magick which is the absolute manipulation of time and space, mass and energy according to the will of the Magickan. There is no manifest illusion as one does not experience Magick with the senses but with the spirit.

yes I think it is

In todays political correct age illusionists call themselves illusionist as that is what they are… magic is far from some street elution.
So magic is not an illusion

I am not understanding how one could possibly be mistaken for the other.

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From Webster.com:

illusion
1 a (obsolete) : the action of deceiving
b (1): the state or fact of being intellectually deceived or misled : misapprehension
(2): an instance of such deception

2 a (1): a misleading image presented to the vision (2): something that deceives or misleads intellectually
b (1): perception of something objectively existing in such a way as to cause misinterpretation of its actual nature (2): hallucination (3): a pattern capable of reversible perspective

3: a fine plain transparent bobbinet or tulle usually made of silk and used for veils, trimmings, and dresses

magic
1 a: the use of means (as charms or spells) believed to have supernatural power over natural forces
b: magic rites or incantations

2 a: an extraordinary power or influence seemingly from a supernatural source b: something that seems to cast a spell : enchantment

3: the art of producing illusions by sleight of hand
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It is easy to see from the definitions that an illusion is certainly not magic; and also that while magic can include illusions, magic is generally beyond 'illusions' because it goes beyond mental manipulation. Perhaps I'm failing to see some general principle here, but I don't see how the question has any relevance as per definition.

is life an illusion?

Now that we have the definitions magic vs illusion stated, and identified, let us travel into the past a bit.

Pagans, ritual magik, altars, the practices long before the religious revelutions. This culture is very well documented as giving their gods festivals, which include magikal rites, incantations, as well as song and dance to honour which ever deity or all that they deemed fit and worthy.

Would you call these traditions "illusion"? As this form of paganism was inclined to be very "magik" As in, the rites of ritual magik to summon new harvest, good tithings...As we do in this day and age.

We use magik, whether it be candle, incense, altar, beverage, and any other means for the benefit of prayer in our own ways. That which we wish to acknowledge the diety if any of our choice.

My point being, some magiks are used for deity worship, this would not be the entertaining "illusion" magiks that are well defined as "gimmicky".

To answer this question. Magicians use illusions, slight of hand and mirrors to preform what they call magic. Witches do natural magic we dont make these big dramitical shows of magic just get done what needs to be done

Magick is used to affect change in life be it yours or others and good or bad. Magic is for entertainment purposes.

I think that magik is both a belief and a illusion. If you want to beleive then you will

If we talk about the acts wich the stage magicians are pulling out of their hats, than we certanly know that it is all a skillful deception/illusion for wich the person posing as a "Magician" has been trained for several years, so that person can become perfect at interpreting the reality in that way in wich it realy is not, with the help of ones hands as tools, only.

In the middle of what is, and what already isnt, we perfectly understand that kind of expression as Entertainment.

Like any other sort of Entertainment, and wich industry has invented, are practicly/technicly useless as a message wich should further help in the discovery of one self, and ones deeper meaning in the world/Universe, and besides that are extremly dumbening as well, for ones perception-further evolution and understandings of the world around us(you know the TV, dont you?)

If we talk about real magic, than we perfectly understand and associate with the term, that Real Magic is involving a complete(or at the point of a furthering expansure) understanding of how the things really are and how they do function in our material Universe, wich involves the deeper understanding of the elements them selves, since the Universe is build out of those only, and in unlimited combinations those same ones are producing many different outcomes in ones mind(like invention and understanding of the concepts like Real Magic, or bodily teleportation, ect...), wich might be percieved as; ow what boring thing is that?, or; wow!spectacular, amazing, unbelievable!

Of course the level of the expression of the power of your magic depends on how much you understand and how much you are connected with the energies of the Universe(the elements), and thanks to that manipulation/knowing of those, would result in something more real, than just mere stage trix.

Real Magic is derrived out of the understanding of the universe and its functions, and further combined with the intellect/intention of a individual wich is now combining the higher understanding(actually only its own personal potential as a complex being with complex understanding/reasoning) of the surroundings in to something more functional, more spectacular, with its own pure intention/intellect of course as the motivator for the magic/knowledge wich has been understood.

To sum it all up easier to comprehend; The Real Magic, and to become a succesfull wielder of it, lies in understandings of how to bring the Chemical Reactions wich are being produced by the unlimited/numberless interactions/expressions of the elements, under ones control of ones soule mind, not with a machine like a scientist to some certain extend or a little bit more and just little bit more, but to the full completition of the whole function, with ones soule mind.

Thats the real thing, the Real Magic,

not the stage illusion.

shroude i have a couple things to say about that. nothing in those traditions was magical at all. at all. but giving you the benefit of the doubt lets pretend it was. even then the reason that they did such practices is for an illusion. i cant blame them, its just looking back with the wonderful advances we have now things in the past look sillier than ever.

I think show magic is all an illusion. But there is also real magic as well.

i think that show magic it an illusion and some magic that isnt for show is but it depends on the person doing it and their skill

The general public will always see things differently. Don't say that witches don't do ritual for show either. I have been to more than a few open circles, 200+ people, that were nothing but show, imo. You must also understand the differences between some of these terms. Magic, with or without the "k", that was done in the past was closer to the occult sciences than witchcraft. Other than for show or deceit, of course. Witches work with nature on a personal level, so the only illusion, if there is any, would be in there own minds. And I wouldn't use the term illusion for that.

hmmm iunno .-.

magic is as real as you believe it is

i've often wondered if someone like criss angel used a combination of both. it seems so believable what he does sometimes.

Is magic an illusion? Yes

It depends totally on what you are refering to as magic, stunts on a stage yes would be illusion, but the certain gifts some people seem to possess, perhaps more real and possible than people wish to beleive.

well i belive magic to be just an illusion and for entertainment only but as for magick it is something that is very real.

Nicely put UTAH

Magic yes,but magick no

Magic is CACA.
Beer is real:)

i know there is real magic caus emy cousin can do it but there is the fake stuff too

i agree with Lagniappe magic is magic and illusion is illusion

Cerby -

What kinds of magick?

i have loved magic shows from young childhood up loved david blane and of course chris angel i wanted to believe so badly what they did was more then illustion some yes but not all and chris started giving away some of his secrets and shattered my conception of things...now Magick practiced by witches is all together differant then a performance artist what witches do is real down to earth what works thru trial and error

true magick is a gift given to us by the god and goddess,it is all around us and in us.magic or the art of illusions is a man made thing,made for entertaining.true magick is given to us to help our fellow man,magic while entertaining is not

Illusion isn't always meant to be strictly entertainment. The problem is that the average person has run into a "magician" who just makes the atmosphere entirely light hearted and not serious whatsoever. This is all fine and dandy in the right place and setting. Thats how I do it most of the time.

However, if the mood is right, and the person is open, you can take things in an entirely different direction. If the illusion is strong enough and the context is right someone just might learn some new way of thinking. Yup, I said it. You can learn something very useful from this little trickery.

Just because I didn't actually float or read your mind or whatever does NOT mean that you can't get something worthwhile from the experience. Its just another art form, albeit less popular, but my point is that art isn't always meant to be something pretty for ooohs and aaahhhs.

psychhvamp ...very true .. i kick my self for letting my self be suckerd into mans entertainment magic and let my self fall short of my own spiritual belief in magick
your words ring very true

i think it is the slight of hand

'Magic' where people have to use smoke and mirrors and such to trick the mind, that is obviously an illusion.

i think magic is real just its all the way u show the ppl

Slight of the hand, Gord?

can slight of hand relieve pain?relieve stress?can it make the inner demons go away?sure it can make the coin appear,the dove seem to come from nowhere.but caN SLIGHT OF HAND MAKE YOU FEEL WHOLE?can an illlusion make you whole?magick can.it is all within,damn it we all have it,lets show it

Some magic is illusory but some ilusions could be magic!

Many people who pretend to have "paranormal" powers (I hate the "para" word) finally prooved to use tricks too, though there is something real in the magic practice... there are some invisible powers we do have just a glimpse on... the future will reveal more...
and i enjoy magick tricks when I go to the Circus even if I know they are fake...
*sigh*

While many use magic with a different spelling to make it seem different. I see them as the same, but different flavers. One is just real magic, one is what we think is true, one it the magic of art, the magic of music, the magic of what we see is true, and the magic of when truth is weirder then what we think should be fiction. The list could go on and on.Magic can be an illusion or can be as real as you feel it to be. Just it is up to you to say what is real to you and what is not. While science is real and it has been proven the world is round, there is still a small group that thinks the world is flat, no matter what other people think and the fact that is have been proven for way over 100 years.

Magic by its nature defines definition, and in that it is only what it appears as to those in the sphere of influence. Everybody involved witnesses there own perception of events declared as magic or magik, a survey will produce may variables and degrees of explainations.

When your talking about magic for entertainment purposes, you are talking about Zigfried and Roy, or the guy you hire for your daughters birthday party. This is slight of hand, or slight of tiger in the case of Zigfried, and illusion. It is fun to watch and fascinating to study.

But does anyone really believe that the guy doing card tricks is really calling on the supernatural in some way. Did anyone really believe that the David Copperfield made the Statue of Liberty disappear? It was fun and exciting, but not supernatural.

yes it is.

Cemetaryman, are suggesting that David Copperield actually made the Statue of Liberty dissappear for real using paranormal forces?

We all know that Copperfield didn't really make the Statue of Liberty disappear, but that isn't really the point.

Its about that funny feeling that the experience gives you. Its about feeling like a kid again and seeing something new for the first time. As you age you inevitably become jaded to experiences. Seeing something totally new and fresh is somewhat rare as you grow older. It can change the way you look at things, sometimes drastically.

As a side note... its Siegfried, not Zigfried ;)

no

So then those that do declare super natural forces are at work, do they believe they are making money levitate, or disappear from the hands of a "client'?

If the performer of a trick saws a person in half does he believe he is sawing a woman in half.

you can believe in spells and enchantments, it is a good idea to in if they do not exist Physically, or have material value, there is something attached to them to create a strong effect of belief. Be cautious in your exceptence, of concepts attached to your core beliefs.

zigfried lol

JackofSpades, thanks for spelling correction. But I agree with you. It is the excitement of it all, its not supernatural.

I believe for it to be natural. But that is just me... I don't think it is supernatural.

YES/NO there is some magic that is classified as Illlussion but there is magic that goes beyond that of Illussion that defies all logic but is not an Illussion

I agree with the last statement in the forum

Magic is generally a term given to an event that happens in which we can't explain HOW it happened.

I'm a witch, been one for over 10 years. I've called the corners, done the rituals, given marriage rites, and seen magick work. But it only worked because I believed it would. It is an illusion, but a powerful one. We believe it works and therefore it does. It's all about perception and perception IS reality.

Well state fairy moon. The craft of ritual magic is a tool to focus perception, what is witnessed with such focused perception is Magik.

some magic I think is real most I believe to be fake...

So we have entertainment magic and ritual magick.

We seem to all agree that entertainment magic is slight of had, or slight of tiger (or slight of statue), exciting, fun, well worth the effort on the part of the practioner and the viewer, but is illusion.

We seem to have ritual magick. Which seem to require our belief to work and may not be supernatural.

Is this a valid summary of the discussion so far?

the whole statue of liberty thing was definately an illustion it was from wht angle a person was standing ...ie i was there but not for the show and our lovely lady was still in place

I think whether magic is real or an illusion will always be up to the individual. As seen here there are many who side for real in regards to witchcraft, and many who side with illusion.

Personally magic is real, but not necessarily in witchcraft... I believe in the magic of the world around me, the energy vibrating around us and through us that created the place and bodies we reside in... nothing can beat the magic of creation in my books.

i think magic is an illusion

there is two forms of magic preformansce majic and real magic preformance magic is just a show and real magic is all around but few people beleave in it because of the preformance magic that has been spreading like wild fire.

there are three kinds of magic. conjuring tricks, the magic of harnessing natural forces, and mind magic.

granny weatherwax says the strongest magic of all is head magic. it is illusions and psychology - but it can perfom great wonders. never underestimate the power of the mind

i must say if one has never stood by a roaring waterfall they have not exp the power that water has or climbed a tree and felt the earth looked up at the clouds and felt the wind or sat next to a blazing fire .....LOL all these hold powers of magick

Ha Ha Ha Karnstien wonderful grannyweather wax I just love the disk world.

I wouldn't know, I really don't believe in magic. Maybe someday I'll witness something that will change my mind.

A lot of magic is an illusion, and there is real magic to. Its just hard to find.

I disagree that it is hard to find,it is everywhere around us,Magick is in everyday life,the air we breathe,the way we move,an illusion of the mind is all in your head but true magick stays in your head and with everything else in this life you have to believe or it isnt really there at all.

certain forms of magaic is definately an illusion...like Las Vagas magic. Then there are other sides to it are not illusion...like Wicca.

Some magic is nothing more then Illusion yet some Illusion is Magic....Yet there can be magic with out Illusion and Illusion with out Magic.

Confusing I know but its true.

ChaosxXxVampire -


Would you care to explain your reasoning?

Illusion. I don't believe in magic. It makes me angry to not know how something is done, because you know it's not real.

Jamie, as far as Illusion goes, it's not meant to be a puzzle to figure out. Its about feeling that childlike state of wonderment. Its supposed to just be a happy, warm feeling. No challenge is involved. ;)

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