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This came into my mind last night. what is real? Is the True out there waiting to discover to let the whole world know....
Is Real Vampires? were wolves? Fairies? Santa Claus? Paranormals? Ghosts? And Among other Creatures We haven't heard of,...IF Any of these Exist, The whole alot is Real In this Real World.
What is your saying on this?

superstition as well as its mythical beings...Santa, vampires, fae etc. all stemmed from folklore and tradition. Many of these beings were born from like minded individuals back in the good ole days. Each tradition has its own martre. Every being could be brought to light by someone or something that was in a historic event or in the right place at the right time.

So, in this case I would not ask what is real, I would ask how did it become what it became as supersition. We make things real because our minds desire that which we either halfway, or do not understand fully.

That insurmountable proof of the beyond that we just cannot grasp regardless of how hard we really try.

well, that is a tough question.

most reality is just in what you believe, because if you have true belief, then your reality will shift towards it.
the rest of what is real is just hundreds of years of preconceptions being interpreted by our conciousness

Santa Claus is real...

it was your parents. So was the tooth fairy and the Easter Bunny.

There's an old man that works the midnight shift at the convenience store down the road from me that looks just like Nosferatu. I'm not sure I wanna know.

I think that all stories have some kind of truth behind them. Example is the real story of Santa Claus and where he came from. ETC

it is all what YOU believe. everyone on here can tell you what is real and what isnt but in the end u have to make the decision yourself

i all depends on what you believe i believe they may be real but we wont know unless someone finds them

well I feel alot of things are real whether or not they still exist in this day and age. I Mean we know that there are other things out there ... how else would there be stories LOl just my feelings about it ... I think we all know that we are not the only beings /species in this universe correct?

I think that there is always truth behind myths and legends. They might not be the magical, paranormal type of truth that one would expect but there is always a root to every good story. I think we need those stories to make the real world seem less harsh and more colourful. If not more mysterious. I know that mystery is one of the things that makes my life worth living. So it's really upto the individual to decide what is real and true for them and to research it as much as they can to uncover the hidden truth behind it all.

even if they arent real we can and will believe and hopw they are

That depends if you know if anything is real.

If you can prove anything is real then it could be considered so.

Each of us as humans have our own realities. What is a reality to me, doesn't mean it is reality to you. Choice, I personally do not believe in Santa Clause, however the history of kris kringle I suppose. So What is real I do believe in ghosts and physic abilities. I don't believe in the easter bunny either. Werewolves, legends, folklore. I think most of these things are passed on for centuries and like the stories told, become misconstrued through the retelling!

Wrap your mind around this one. Everything is real. If you can imagine it, it is real in some form or some place.

Just a weird side note - the "what is real?" question made me think of this future studies and philosophy professor I had my second year of college. He talked about this theory - and honestly I don't remember who's it was ... that when you closed your eyes - or closed the door to your home - every bit of reality outside of what you could see or hear or touch - vanished completely. Sorta like "if the tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it - does it make a sound?" But on a larger scale - where does reality go when no one is there to experience it? If you are not there to see or hear something - it does sort of cease to exist...

Babies, during early development learn the 'reality' that objects hidden behind something else - still exist. BUT in theory - what if they don't?? LOL what if you park your car in the garage and close the door, and that car ceases to exist until you open the door again to see or experience the car.

I hated the class - but that one portion stuck in my head for some reason. Sorry to meander!

The moment it is, we will be so very disturbed, we will seek other things more fringe to imagine to be real. Make believe is one thing.. but as long as their are curious people .. there will be people who will feed that curious nature..

A lot of people take things they witness or heard about and turn a story into something more than it was originally. I believe all things come from somewhere or something but how much can be validated, is the question. ^^

So are you willing to accept the possibility that I channel the ghost of the Roswell alien?

I can provide proof..

Sure. how can i deny someone that can back up their claims. :)

But are you willing to accept it without proof?

I accept things i have seen and felt in my life already that I can't just hand to someone and say here's the proof. Some things aren't so easy. If that was the case, we still wouldn't have things on the "mysterious" list. Some information isn't going to be handed to you on a silver platter i assure you. Doesn't make things LESS real. Means that it's HARDER to get what would need to satisfy your "real factor". I would have no reason to disbelieve you. I take most information given to me and feel and think apon it .

So do you accept that I am the channeler of the ghost of the Roswell alien ?

What a person believes in comes from the intrest a person puts into what they believe, or what they were
taught growing up. As we get older our beliefs change
due to evidence we find to confirm our beliefs.

The point you are trying to make is that if i say yes to you, you will automatically deem me being TOO open minded and gullible to things you say. However....I don't have a bunch of people coming up to me and make such claims. The difference is, the people that HAVE contacted me able to do things..HAVE proven certain things to me, not doing it on Vampire Rave to make a point of my own mentality. They respect the fact that I'm NOT closed to them and accept them for what they are able to do, otherwise if they didn't feel i was approachable, they would not have come to me in the first place. I will not answer that question because i'm not here to be judged.

What is real depends on your definition of reality. If you include the astral and limitless mental planes, then literally everything that has ever been thought about is real to some degree. If you define reality as the physical world in which we live - the limited yet malleable world - then real is defined solely by the five physical senses, barring mental illness.

I'll find santa in your mental plane. Someday....

Dabbler...I accept the fact that you may be as nutty as a squirrels house...which is probably why I think you are cool.

I can't accept much of anything without proof...but I'll bite and say I believe ya.

Now...where's the proof?? :p

Well I would set the field to the person that wants proof.. you set the controled experiment. I am the person making the claim.. you are the person investigating that claim.. it would be easy for me to make a test for me to have the advantage in proving my claim.

Your imagination and beliefs should always be seperated. I mean well beyond the fringe when far out people have others that go farther out. Even if all the things you accept as really possible, if one was actual you would have a more advanced expectation. You are so Gaze jaded .. that anything subtle escapes you. I mean going on a roller choaster is great people but living in a theme park, you are likely to ride so much it losses something.. sensationalist are a easy mark.

For the normal "mortal", all those that you mentioned are part of the unknown. For others, is real as water. The place where you live, can make a difference about your believe in these "creatures". For me, there is no line, between the fantacy and the reality. Everything is possible.

so I challenge your imagination sticks to come up with a way to test the Ghost of the alien claim.

If you truly believe it is real then it is.. I mean having facts to back it up would be great. All that really matter is if YOU think it is real.

but what you believe only affects your reality. it takes a multitude of people believing the same thing to affect reality in general

So then what would you require for proof, if I could meet your terms ask questions, think motive, why would someone make such claims.. I like some of the replies to my claim so far. To challenge the reason behind the claim is points for that person.. it shows a base understanding of what is too fringe.. how much farther out does each level get.. if you except that aliens could be out their, you are not "fringe" anymore.. you believe they are here.. on earth.. no still not fringe.. a common minority .. what is too far-out?

I think alot of things are when it comes to mythical creatures. It is just how you look at it.

I believe that what makes these real to individuals is the fact that they truly believe in them. Old and young alike all have things they firmly believe in therefore making that real to them.

How about psychic detectives? Nope they are hacks..

www.klaaskids.org/pg-mc-hazards.htm

Well said DuCroix, that minority seeks to convert for that very reason.. to fill pews to bolster their assurance.. that they are not the only one to accept something that is far-out. Always bet on the curious people. A sound investment.

A lot of things we can' t prove, but we believe they are real.depends on the person.

Then why can't one example be found.. I mean 1 million dollars will nest egg a large research facalty, so why are all these people that write books about being metaphycic guru and psychics just step up and prove it to all us poor unenlightened people. Instead of always using parlor tricks. That is all that skeptics ask. Something so simple.

Yes! Everything are real, We are a lie 8-I

Being serious, mythology always has its base..
Everything started somehow..
And never underestimate "imagination" and "illusions"..

how far back do you have to go, though, to find the reality behind a myth? and how do you know it is real?

Half the time nothing is significant about finding "reality" to something.. you can peek at the beyond.. or claim to.. but really what is it good for..? Does that really assure anything.. beyond your senses.. ? can you imagine something better then others would limit you to believe.. ?

As for me personally I want and I need to believe, perhaps I can feel it, I don't know.
But if you ask for proofs (which is absolutely logical) you shall find them. But you might laugh at them...
As for how far back you need to go, it always depends. The truth could be the myth without its "glory"...
I could speak for example about Dragons, Fairies, Aliens or Vampires in particular but it would be pointless.
We should just keep our eyes open (as well as our minds) and don't forget to look around, I doubt it would knock your door.

Somthing i"ve thought about for quite saometime what if this real that we see is simply nothing but smoke and mirrors maybe if we were exposed to the real we wouldn't be able to handel it are we really born of the womb is there just birth life then death? isn't there something more isn't there magic isn't there something else what now? I'v thought about it more and more and have asked many ppl what the answer could be it has been something that has puzzled me for quite some time.

I think that there is another reality where all this imaginary things that we think about does exisit just in another world what if all we imagine and come up with in our minds ends up in the other world... just a thought...

What of those who once believed and just realized that it served no purpose but to fill the vacuum left by turning away from a religion..?

Or those that really believed and realized that it was clouding their judgement.. that what people call having an open mind is exploited by those that would cram it full of things that link to their purposes and adgendas, what do you tell the people that believed and got duped.. that it is real.. and that they should seek a better "practicioner" .. is that what you are prepared to endorse as real to your friends and family?

Like most superstitions, we choose what to believe in..

And some overwhelm themselves with imagined things.

It is the foundation that matters. What comes from such beliefs?

I think anything is possible to be real. I dont believe we are alone in this world whether in the universe or on earth. We are finding new and strange things everyday here on earth and in space.

I dont believe in werewolves and vampires as they are shown in movies but there are ppl out there who are covered in hair from head to toe, some humans have been known to grow up with wolves and as such act like a wolf. It is also common fact that a lot of humans drink blood, not by inserting fangs into someones neck.

I think it really depends on how you see things it pays to have an open mind on all things.

But spare space in your open mind for the creative process to function as well.

I think what ~Dabbler~ means, is the act of manipulation...If an individual lets another have influence over their mind, for lack of a better term, they think this individual has a better understanding for that certain situation so the manipulation takes faster effect...Therefore, the influenced can be manipulated much easier into thinking what ever the influencer states is fact and the "be all end all." Further more, has power over the influenced mind.

I believe that those things in wich you believe are real.

the media would have us believe that Pepsi is the real thing, but i am not so sure.

i tend to believe that chairs are real - at least whilst i am sitting on them - because if i stop believing in their "reality" they may vanish in a puff of logic, and i will fall unceremoniously to the floor.

i like my new keyboard - i really do hope that is real.

i think we shall never know the whole truth

Most anything is rea if you believe enough..

Well if it's true that thought determines reality then I guess anything could be real.

I'd like to think "mythical" creatures are more than a myth and I do think some are, but you also gotta consider stuff like misfigured animals.

I saw a news story the other day about a deer that was born in a European zoo with only 1 antler, which happened to be in the direct center of the head...unicorns?

when you touch something and it remains in tact its likelyhood of being real is far greater than the things that vaporize when touched.

those pesky holograms get me everytime. thats why i created this testing method.

I think what is real is only an opinion of what people believe. Some say god is real others say they need proof to know if something is real. As far as santa claus I think that there really is no santa like in the storys but have heard that there was a man who used to go around giving gifts to kids who didn't have any and it is was just his way of making things better for those he figured deserved it.

you make a good point none of these things havent been proven, but whats not to say that those and many other things that we may not always believe are real are out there. i guess you just have to see things in whatever way makes u feel most comfortable. then whatever reality is to you, is real.

You can't see the wind but you can feel it. I think that's a good example of something *shrugs*

My mind is wide open to all these creatures or beliefs.whos's to say they don't or do exist..really..there is no hard core proof. Even though I am a vampire and I know in my heart I am.How can I prove it.

Well from what i have learned most of this but santa clause can neither be comfermd nor dinied i myself dont know what true.What i do know is if there was alot of proof i can find my self i'd lean more twords the its ppossible side^_^.

I want to change the easy clump term of belief.. to convinced because so many people are so wrap up in believe this believe that.. well take a minute and find out what you are convinced.. and then how being convinced of that is to benefit your life here and now.. what are you seeking? to be assured of an after life? Or convinced through physical astonishing sensational performances of your "faith"?

I rest assured as do others.. that life can possibly exist out side the solar system.. I could say I am close to convinced of this.. others would belive.. that is convinced without proof. Now then some would have others share their extended belief.. that is their conviction, that aliens are here .. on earth, without proof .. that by all means should be here..

I lack conviction of this.. I am not convinced by their lax rhetoric and artful dodging. There claims that those who do not share their conviction, are close minded, unenlightened, and even fear being convinced, or believing.

I have no problem with having a secure mind.. so the attempt to convince me that I have anything to gain from opening my mind and cramming it full of imagined possibilities, based on fiction have no significance to my development and interaction with this world here and now physical.. metaphysics ..? yes, I am convinced that they exist.. in the meta-verse.. if I have any conviction about it they are personal to me.. I gain an assurance from my confidence/conviction in something here after.

So to me core convictions can be over come by attachment of sensational exravagent claims, people claiming domain access to the after life, channeling aliens.. I am convinced that if half the things existed.. in as an astonishing way as some would have you be convinced.. we would bump into a ghost every 2 minutes.. the air would be thick with ghost..

even if a fraction of the claims people would have you be convinced and accept as real they would be so scattered and subtle that all the raised expectations of fanatic preconditioning.. would create a circus in front of a whispering spirit.. so belive what one wants.. that is the after life you imagine and are convinced (through your own research and quest, I hope) to convince others and think your self better then others.. even demeaning their convictions or lack of conviction. There are still other things you are likely to share interest in.

I really applaud the first part of your post.. well worded and thoughtful..

The last question I can only aswer that one can imagine they are not if one where to become convinced then that is ones belief and conviction.. I choose not to imagine, or let myself be convinced that such things are possible.. I am a ghost.. I know what ghost are capable of.. so I can understand how some would likely run into ghost.. they met me.. they met a ghost.. do you believe me?? You really made me thing Cinnimion Thank you.

I can produce ghost activity.. I can produce people that are likely to endorse my claim.. would you like to set a test for my claim/ I will meet any requirments you set.. what would be proof of my claim to you? I am convinced that I am a ghost. What questions would you ask to classify my claim? I would walk around all day with a non contact thermomiter
to aim at the majority of "people" or Ghost that I come into contact with.. the tempurature of the person would be convincing eveidince that they are not ghost. watching people interact is sufficent to elimenate the likely hood that they are ghost.. but my ghost activity is convincing as well. So some may not see me as a person.. so I am a ghost Cin..

i believe that "real" is what u believe to be real... again its just my opinion.

Most of it I cannot say either way. I don't believe in vampires or werewolves, but I believe in ghosts and aliens. Who knows about fairies and the like. Hell, I can't even give you an answer on God.

i beleve all exists in the mind of the believer...

I have a open mind when it comes to believing something is real or not. I cannot say something isnt real just because I am told it isnt. I need the proof myself to decide what is and what isnt.

If we can have an open mind and not be told something isnt real because someone cannot prove it. Once no one believed we could fly and get into space or that the world was flat. These have all become real so who is to say that fairies etc cannot be real, just because we dont see them doesnt mean they are not there.

Some things I choose not to believe in their existence. It's not about whether you have an open mind or not. It's personal choice.

I personally believe that all things of myth started out as a story that grew to legendary status.

I don't believe these myths will ever be proven to be real as simply they don't exist at our level. We operate on a different plane of existence. And if there was proof of their existence we would know about it by now.

I believe that now they just don't exist because mankind has evolved too much. We aren't as superstitious or quick to believe in something we are told. We question and want proof now.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20080617/sc_livescience/top10newspeciesnamed

Here's a good example of probably a reason for why things could have existed, probably became exinct at some point as some of our OWN species on Earth are dying out that some people are trying to SAVE. I liked this quote the most in that article....

"Most people do not realize just how incomplete our knowledge of Earth's species is or the steady rate at which taxonomists are exploring that diversity," said Quentin Wheeler, an entomologist and director of IISE.

I would like to tell you all thanks for you posting your comment regarding on my topic. :)
most of your comment which is it helpful, & some are not so helpful, and insulting on which i do not mind at all, I take it you are outspoken people.. :)
I will post another later in the future on the different topic.

We believe in many things based on "Faith", therefore, we believe they exist without proof. Your perception of life determines what you believe. For example: Many believe in GOD, but none have seen him or have talked to him. They believe in GOD based solely on faith because the truth is they do not know whether he/she exists or not.

What makes things real? Making things real is believing in them, having faith in something.

Imagining something is not going to make something, it never has, imagined things are not likely to exist, unless someone uses talent to create what they imagine. Our beliefs do not make things, I can believe I will be rich as much as I want, I can even follow a wealth guru, and be a convinced believer, but until I can cash the check, that is not realistic. I looked for the sensational,"tangible" evidence, even as a one time believer, but I ask the question, " What of it?"
Beyond the known(physical universe) is an unknown, a mystery. Why would I want to be, privy to some connection.. if I accept that it is imaginable that aliens exist out in the farthest cosmos (something that has support from a physical source) then that is cake to me.. why are others so determined to drown my cake in icing and whip-cream.. I think it is perhaps because they are selling me icing.. so in the after here (or what ever you accept/imagine/or are convinced it is, can be your outcome.. nobody has a right to denounce you for that.. yet if someone claims to be connected to that.. I will seek physical proof.. If someone tells me they are a writer, I want to see a book, I could care less if someone read your writings, I want to read it as well. It is tragic when people accept a less sentional, or are still learning to use current mental abilities to interact with this present world, and others are bragging of being gifted.. by their faith. A discouraging thing, especially to those who have been seekers and only found misleading and vague elisive chambers at every turn..

lol well again i will have to disagree with you on that Dabbler from my own personal experience. We have imaginations for a reason. It's to CREATE something whether it be something we can prove to things we cannot prove probably because we don't have the technology to do so. OR..maybe we do and just don't have access to it? I have used my "imagination" to help with focusing on something I was doing at the time and it in fact WORKED. Rather than think that the imagination is ONLY for make believe and such, perhaps one should consider what it COULD do to benefit another.

?

anything we think

seems to be the grounds for a paranoid person.. if every book ever imagined is capable of being real...! I am the ghost of the Roswell Alien..
Sent to correct and stimulate the humans stagnant reality, seeings how the do a lot of thinking and no doing, their evolution has been forsook for advancement. They cannot wait until they die, they are easily convinced that they are connected to the greater beyond, now remember this is what I think, so it is. This is my accepted reality, all the hoaxes, even though we know they are hoaxes, are indeed hoaxes, but hoaxes performed by alien ghost. To ease humans into the idea that we are here.. but we are not, we crashed, or appeared to, that was only to get a human near the "craft" to complete the transfer, what you humans call possession (if only you knew the reality of it, and how you missed the chance to have such ability) so think what you want, I know.

Imagination is one of the keys to some of the most important discoveries. Look at da Vinci. Look at the Wright Brothers. Look at Franklin. Look at Galileo. They all imagined. There is proof to that in da Vinci's notebooks. And I am sure that if someone looked deeply into it, one could find more proof that imagination was important in many of these people's discoveries and inventions.

You see, da Vinci, among others, were able to manifest their imaginative ideas into a physical actuality.

Even when you think about the "person who invented the wheel" - I am sure it was their imagination that kick-started that invention in the first place. Or the pilgrims, for that matter. I am sure that they had imagined a place where they could be free to practice their religion, rights, etc.. And it was that imagination which eventually led to everything that we now know as the United States.

Inventors are indeed very imaginative people, and without imagination, I am more than sure we would have stagnated soon after evolving into the human race.

So who is to say where imagination will continue to lead us.

Let me share some quotes by some people who were important inventors, and thinkers:

"An idea is salvation by imagination."
-Frank Lloyd Wright

"Imagination is more important than knowledge. For while knowledge defines all we currently know and understand, imagination points to all we might yet discover and create."
-Albert Einstein

"Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. "
-Albert Einstein

"To raise new questions, new possibilities, to regard old problems from a new angle, requires creative imagination and marks real advance in science."
-Albert Einstein

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. -Thomas Edison. "
-Thomas Edison

"Without leaps of imagination, or dreaming, we lose the excitement of possibilities. Dreaming, after all, is a form of planning."
-Gloria Steinem

"Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire, you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will. "
-George Bernard Shaw

"Skill without imagination is craftsmanship and gives us many useful objects such as wickerwork picnic baskets. Imagination without skill gives us modern art. "
-Tom Stoppard

Real is nonexistant because it differs from person to person.

Real to me is the things those dare to look on upon that no one else believes

Real is taking chances and hoping it turns out well

Real is imagination
creativity
dreams

The common denominator, the physical properties being present to create what is imagined, if one imagines, a metaphysical actuality, that does not make it likely to occur, or be created somehow. That such things are a after reality is imaginable and likely to be so created by the imagination. But for physical creative reality materials need to be fruit baring.

Mechanics are limited to the tools and materials they have, yet to imagine better tools is to create an avenue for greater imagination, and as long as the tools, and materials are in sync with the imaginable project then yes a creative process succeeds in producing something material, to sy that just because you imagine a interface with this world from beyond, is likely to create such a thing.. I would ask.. what tools and material do you plan to use? What will you show to convince science, that something you are convinced people should accept is actually create by your imagining it to be?

I can imagine that a portal will open in front of me.. Wow .. it did.. No it didn't, it would make a good book though.. oh wait it already is.

And I reiterate Dabbler - -George Bernard Shaw said:

"Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire, you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will."

You say you imagine a portal. Into where, I have no clue as you didn't say. However, you imagine this could be possible. Then, you would educate yourself in every field that you could imagine that you would require knowledge in, learn everything that you can OR find someone who does have the knowledge required in such an endeavor and simply try. Test. Write down the ideas, and data so perhaps if this is something possible, a future generation could make attempts with the knowledge that they have, which more than likely would be more knowledge that what you would have.

You don't know what isn't possible unless it has been tried, tried, and tried again. An easy-chair-skeptic isn't enough knowledge, by far, to denounce untried possibilities.

And all the practical things that could be made in thew time devoted to a fringe imagined thing.. what could that time, and resources have been used to create to make this world better now. would it be enough for me to imagine a meta-verse after here being created by my imagination, existing after here? I mean Are you trying to make me believe, I believe their is a creative effect on our after life.. imagining it to be here that has really been elusive, I mean the claims.. I am seriously overcome, by the overwhelmed people. Your drive to convince others that what you imagine as likely to exist just because you imagine it.. that is pretty self important, I mean being a gateway to the after life.. a little on the "god side of things".

Yes, I am sure that air-flight is very fringe (not to mention space travel, moon landings, etc..), and the Wright brothers wasted a lot of time trying to do what they did. Had no importance, whatsoever. Even all of the naysayers, those who said that man flying in the air was impossible, they were right, weren't they?

Franklin with his life spent on his imaginative ideas.. again, another hoax, that electricity thing. I am sure there were many like you who scoffed at such possibilities.

I could care less if you believe that "imagined possibilities" are fringe, impossible, etc.. because I know that no matter what you believe, the probability of you becoming the next Einstein, Franklin, etc.. is next to none. Convincing you is also neither here nor there. What is real to you, is what is real to you. Believe what you will. However, you have no say nor right to try to convince others that they are wrong in their perceived reality. That is a personal truth that cannot be judged nor labeled as right or wrong by anyone other than ones self.

What we imagine, can become reality, and that has been proved time and time again. Who are you to say otherwise, not to mention, who are you to say when one's imagination is a waste of time? Or that WHAT they imagine is a waste of time.

If every inventor, great thinker, artist, or discoverer thought the way that you seemingly do, we would have never advanced enough to be even having this debate/conversation here, online, on the Vampire Rave, in the first place.

I belief Soulshroude had the best answer on here (as usual, lol).

All superstitions had a bit of truth behind them. (Easter Bunny - or actually Ostara bunny, Santa etc..) As for others, some people only believe what we can prove right now. Still others are so closed-minded that were a ghost to get right up in their face they would still belief it was a trick.

How are you high jacking science to validate metaphysic interest, well then when you produce any evidence that your imagination created a real thing, please go to the press. funny because when the plane was invented, their was crackpots who insisted that it supported their imagined existence of mystical forces.. turns out it wasn't, Was it? Science invents things, they create results, metaphysicist produce wishful thinking. What have they contributed to the physical world?

Are you referring to Franks Box?

How convienant that the science that occult refuses to account to is so easily used to bolster their position, that because a person imagined a machine and created it, and proved.. that it did what the person imagined(there for convincing others). As opposed to what ? What has been produced by occult, or Alien believes, all there imagination, seems to have created a market for hoaxes and books..

I like how some self imagined psychics, will blame unbelief as the reason they cannot perform, I think that is a very real example of their faking ways.

I think that all things can be understood. Everything from the material to the immaterial. I think that science can be a tool for this understanding. I also think spirituality is another tool to help in this understanding. I think that when eventually science and spirituality can go hand in hand, many more things will be understood. I think that it is a possibility. We are just beginning, quite honestly, in our advancements. This all may not happen in my lifetime, but eventually, it will be. Simply because you disbelieve, does not make it unreal for me, or others who believe that the imagination is a key and foundation for discoveries that begin as possibilities.

My point is, and again, I reiterate for you dabbler, that imagination is important, and that what one imagines can eventually become a reality. Science has proved this more than once and perhaps eventually, it will also prove other theories of a more spiritual nature.

I am more than confident that your opinions are not the end-all regarding this.

Again, what is reality to one, is not necessarily reality to another. It's all perception, dabbler. And as I have said multiple times to you in many different ways to help you to understand, in my reality, anything is a possibility until it has been proven otherwise.

So you said Immaterial, so what prey tell is the significants of material presence of immaterial concepts, are you insisting that you have some mystic tap on the meta-verse? if so then what purpose s it serving to make this world a better place, so you image a better place to come, what about people that imagine it is something to come, what about those that are feed up , with all the bottomless claims of those who perform hoaxes, are they just not accepting that it is somehow not a hoax? Because you are really eluding answers to questions i ask, I want no part in a belief system that is negligent in answering basic inquiries asked by skeptics.

If a person claiming occult abilities performs for you and you accept that as real, then you have a overbearing imagination, one that blocks out the real use of props. Your imagination will not create levitation, or a ghost to float you to the ground, your imagination will not produce the same effect as the "guru" performed, a talking frog will not talk no matter how real it appeared to speak when with the person that sold it to you, the ventiliquist. see being able to explain old craft is what people imagined to be a likely explaination to occult claims.. and as imagined, it became so.. when people have empty sensational expectations they will cheat, and perform.. those claims.

I don't think some of these things will ever be proven, and why should they?

You, dabbler, have yet to ask a question personally of me, that requires, much less, deserves an answer. Once you do ask what I feel is an intelligent question, I will do my best to answer it, if I indeed do have an answer.

As for personal opinions and/or convinctions, beliefs, and/or the personal significance that they may have for me, I do not need anyone's validation, including yours, to continue believing what I choose to believe.

Again, (and wow, it's amazing how many times I have to say this to you, dabbler) it is my opinion that anything is a possibility until it has been proven otherwise.

What would be the benefit, if such things have been present like it is claimed, why have they produced nothing. Science imagined, and created things that excel the world, this present world, metaphysics is for the here after, I respect that, that is far greater potential then we can imagine. Yet that is after here, if it is possible to interface with the after life, or even aliens.. here and now? What is the significance? It is still something to come. Are you anxious to get there? What do you want in reply to your soup box insistence that others accept your imagined reality, over physical reality. Are you aware that some have believed as you do now, and walked away from such things, for lack of foundation. If one does not believe/accept as real/material what you imagine/accept as real, What becomes of them? if I don't choose to believe heaven as real, then I am told I go to Hell.

If I don't accept aliens as ghost as real/ material here in present reality, then what becomes of me? I will focus my imagination and creativity on what is physically creatable, to astonish peoples quest for sensational grand mystical connections is a grant eater that has been shut off finally. A real waste of advancement research has gone into psuedo science attempts to produce effects that could be used for fringe beliefs and claims. How do you account for all the things that where imbraced as real proof, only to find them, elaberate hoaxes, how do you explain to those duped, that they need to go to a real one next time?

This my last post to you on this subject, dabbler, unless of course, you begin bullying people again for their personal (key word there, dabbler. personal) beliefs. I will reiterate, again, despite that it is very frustrating to have to say over and over the same statement in order for you to perhaps somehow understand it:

As for personal opinions and/or convinctions, beliefs, and/or the personal significance that they may have for me, I do not need anyone's validation, including yours, to continue believing what I choose to believe.

Again, (and wow, it's amazing how many times I have to say this to you, dabbler) it is my opinion that anything is a possibility until it has been proven otherwise.

Great the moment you think that makes you exceptional I will require proof, until then believe what you want, and I will choose to not belief what i want. you are no more enlightened then anyone because you can" Imagine anything to be possibly. Then by all means change the world and prove all the skeptics wrong.

This thread has been automatically closed for length.