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Proselytizing: Why or Why Not?
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HellHathWings
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Read This First:


Proselytizing: Why or Why Not?

Pagans do not search out people to convert. Here's why.

In case you're not familiar with the term, proselytize means to try to convert other people to your religion. Not only is this practice acceptable to those in other religions, it's actively pursued by some. This article explains why this is not done by Pagans, and includes some of my own opinions on the matter.

No matter what most Pagans may feel about some other religions and their behaviors, it's generally accepted that all religions are valid paths of spirituality. To try and change someone's religious views implies that one religion is better than another. There is no limit to the number of ways to connect with the Divine. Which path a person chooses is between them and the Gods.

Now, there is a difference between proselytizing and sharing information. Answering questions for someone who is seeking some spiritual answers is not the same as trying to convert them.

Because Wicca, Witchcraft and other forms of Paganism have gotten so much bad press over the last few hundred years, there is a lot of misinformation out there. Trying to ensure that new pagans have access to accurate information isn't the same as trying to convert people to paganism.

One form of proselytization that I have strong feelings against is Christian missionary work. This is well-meaning Christians who travel all around the world, to teach the natives about God. In their efforts to bring 'civilization' to these people, they destroy the native religions and cultures. It makes me sad to think how many people lost their own religions, because another was forced upon them.

Be happy that you have found a spiritual path that suits you, and share information about it when other are interested, but don't try to tell others that your path is better than theirs. It's not.

© 2006 About, Inc., A part of The New York Times Company.



Does your religion, spirituality or what not do this, Proselytizing?
Why or Why Not?
Do you know what started the Proselytizing within your belief?
What are the benefits of Proselytizing?



****Note:
Any belief bashing will be deleted by a VR Staff Member. You will lose the post count. Please be respectful. Thank You.



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DjMMp
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14:42:51 Aug 08 2008
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there are these people that come to the free concert held every week here in buffalo and they literally force their beliefs upon people... people like me and the ones who they think are sinners.

wouldnt mind them at all if they just didnt do it so often and crazy like.

"your going to hell you satan worshiper!!!!" im like "WTF?"

i dont even know any of these people and they are judging me like they are my family.

so i say... why not.



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CryingMist
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16:02:10 Aug 08 2008
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I consider there is a difference between prolytizing and sharing, I don't mind other's sharing with me I actually enjoy learning other"s beleif and path, I respect them, I don't approve of many still it is their choice therefore their right to want and like it, as I expect the same courtasy if I wish to share what I beleive I do, yet I would not force it upon others or say:: you will burn in hell for this or that blah blah

It is pointless, useless and only makes you look stupid and mostly not a pleasant person to be around or with.

I mean it is nice to go and share, who knows even if my path is what I chose, maybe I did miss something and there is a better one for me, not better for everyone but me

It's like chocolat ice cream, some like some don't, is is a bad thing to like it? Nope.

Or any other thing in life, I love pink and anime, I won't force it on others but I wont deprive myself of it cause it is " not" goth. I love goth too !

Anyhow just to say no matter the path you chose I think keeping an open mind to others is a good thing.



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poisonedlips
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16:45:56 Aug 08 2008
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If you can find it, there was a good article on the pros and cons of proselytizing in New Witch magazine last year.

I am a Wiccan. I don't like it personally - proselytization. I don't share my religious or political views unless it is asked of me and I expect the same of others. I also like to think that while anyone can claim to be a Wiccan and pagan, one needs a high level of maturity and seriousness to join a circle or a coven. For pagans who organzie themselves into covens and circles, I agree with the concept of waiting a year and a day until someone is invited fully into rituals, etc. This waiting period weeds out the immature and those who might want to cause strife in the community.



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HellHathWings
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I do not personally try to convert anyone. I did when I was a Christian. It was what we were told to do.

I do talk about my religion. I answer questions. I bring it up in many conversations, actually. If people want to be a Satanist, they will do the work and research themselves. My thoughts.



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vipersangel2
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20:03:51 Aug 08 2008
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I dont personally try to convert anyone, if they are interested and want to learn more about it I share but i dont push my religion on anyone.



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Cheetahcry
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20:26:32 Aug 08 2008
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I peronally do not try to convert anyone to anyone set faith. My own faith is more spiritual then anything else. I don't feel that it is right to try and covert someone to a belief and that it is fine when questions are being asked out of curiousity. The questions are from those that are seeking knowledge, not wanting to be part of a particular belief or faith.



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HellHathWings
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21:03:52 Aug 08 2008
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Okay, how bout Proselytizing in general? You have ideas that do not relate to religion. Everyone does. Do you try to press the issue and make people think the same way you do?


personally i think it is wrong



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Cheetahcry
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21:06:59 Aug 08 2008
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HHW. The only time that I would even try to sway someones thinking is if I can prove that I am right or that the subject content is right. Personally I agree with you on this note.



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HellHathWings
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21:16:28 Aug 08 2008
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Yeah, like when someone says you are wrong or so.


Many times do I get into discussion with my sister. She will ask me for advice. I give it to her. Then she says it won't work because she isn't "like me".

"Then don't ask for advice" is my popular response.



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Cheetahcry
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21:19:09 Aug 08 2008
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lol yes in times like that is when I have used more persuasion on different things. But I have to absolutely be able to present some sort of information to back what I think is right on that one.



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HellHathWings
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22:14:25 Aug 08 2008
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excellent philosophy, that is one thing that pisses me off at times is when people do proselytize (try to) but don't know what they are talking about or against...



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dabbler
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22:33:22 Aug 08 2008
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Why religions seek to convert?

1. Strenght in numbers, and resources.

2. To bolster their faith, Example: "I converted one person they related well, so I must have it down, I am not alone in understanding this.

I like that definition of Sharing .. as opposed to converting.. if more people would wait until people asked there would be less confrontation of religious matters. To denounce another persons faith in light of your own, telling a person it is "our" way or Hell brutal.



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dabbler
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I actually question a lot of the witness teams about their tactics, I have seen and have examples of some spooky religious retreats (some of the teens that go to these things are sent by parents.) they are bombarded with things that I doubt are even bible related.



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mysticwinds
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23:12:41 Aug 08 2008
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I am a Pagan...I do not believe in converting anyone.

As I was experiencing different types of structured religions...I became interested in Wicca. A teacher came to me. She answers my questions, but I was much on learning on my own. If I always had a question she was there. But to sit down and teach someone as on a one on one no. If that makes sense. She led me in the right path to learn, but it was I who had to read and study. She was just a guideline for questions and my thoughts on discussions on what I had learnt.



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catseye
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23:56:30 Aug 08 2008
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quite a few wiccan have tried to prostelize me.and moslems and anglicans and buddhists and communists and mormons.the mormon one was the funnyest"isnt it a shame about all the wars today?what do you think is the answear?"
"but i like war!
"eeek"



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dabbler
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Some atheist try to get others to drop their faith.. some are usually in response to being denounced by other representatives from other faiths. Yet the ones that go out of their way to initiate confrontation, I have no use for.

The core belief of a person is sacred. If a person has questions about a faith, that is one thing. Yet if a person comes into a sharing and slams the represtative, that speaks volumes about the intent of the person being disruptive, they are likely to be the same bully with any topic they subscribe to, political, to sports. The character types that use religious or other positions to gain position over others they are usually stand outs in all the areas of their life.



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CryingDutchess
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I hold my own beliefs simply as that -- my own. I have opinions about religion that may differ or possibly coincide within many of you, but that really isn't the point.
I've always felt that a person has to set their own path. Develop their own belief system or lack thereof for whatever reason (though, in theory, to believe not to believe is almost like a religion...) the key factor is what belief symbolizes.

Belief is what holds to our own opinions, the way we see our lives and where we might want to go with them. I find it awkward when having conversations with my friends of random religions simply because the majority of them tend to make me feel like I am being felt out for recruitment. Some will suggest I take the same path as them; which is the same path belonging to someone else -- followed by someone else, etc... On the flip side, the remainder have answered questions I may have asked, or discussed things they were involved in but never made me feel like they were fixing a tractor beam on me. In my case though, those friends were not just Pagans.



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dabbler
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Even after converting to some religions the pressure to accept things does not end.. the conversion to follow is followed up by denomination(declaring your accepted interpitation of the text.) I find that the crusaders for religion are pushy people in most aspects of their lifes, they use dogma as their righteous denouncement of others not like them, like a fittness buff constantly going " Hows your exercise regiment?" "You should come work out with me.." Your going to waste your body away.., you need to be in shape like me.."

To which a person replies," I really just kkep active and walk alot.. I have strained muscles from my last work out." they may agree that being heathy is a good thing, but the person is pushing for a convert to make them the model for fitness awareness.
You can almost hear them,

"Yea, I got this guy to start coming to the gym, he was a weakling.. we are going to make him a body builder next."



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darkenedhope
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03:01:50 Aug 09 2008
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Where I live we get the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Mormons on a weekly basis knocking on my door. It irritates the hell out of me, I don't even bother to answer to say no thanks anymore. I was raised a non-denominational Christian and our church did no such thing unless someone interested called or came by the house requesting information. I am now Agnostic.



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dabbler
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If someone came to me with entusiasm about their new found faith I am likely to be considerate to the point that they start pitching it to me, usually as follows.. man I was a wreck.. remember how horrid I was last you saw me.. ? Well since then I have been a (Golly Stickler.. insert faith)

and I no longer do that stuff.. " I reply. "Thats great I hope it gives you a foundation in your life."

If it goes to, "well I know you could benefit from this as well.." It is replied to as.."Actually I have my own plans for the after life, and I avoid setting new paths through lives landscape." If they press I am likely to dismiss them.



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Lightningsking
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04:00:40 Aug 09 2008
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I present facts and let people make thier choices on what they want to do. I will never try to sway them to my side.

As far as religion we all choose what path we take. I personally am wiccan. I have friends that are protestant, catholic, jewish, and muslim. I respect them for the choices they make, and to understand them better I will ask them questions about thier religion but wont try and sway them to being wiccan



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dabbler
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I do note when a person is preaching at another person and winging it, I have been involved in the study of many religions and I am familiar with liberties people take with their gospels, I watch out for friends that get flak from fellow believers, it appears to be more about power tripping at that point then the actual faith. This topic shares in more then just faith though, as political pressures exist as well. Some will even use a religion and political subject intertwined.. a real slinky maneuver.



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iam
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07:19:36 Aug 09 2008
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pagans are not alone in this, Hindus and Buddhism dont as well



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TrashCore
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13:47:38 Aug 09 2008
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peronally do not try to convert anyone to anyone set faith. My own faith is more spiritual then anything else. I don't feel that it is right to try and covert someone to a belief and that it is fine when questions are being asked out of curiousity. The questions are from those that are seeking knowledge, not wanting to be part of a particular belief or faith.



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HellHathWings
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14:23:11 Aug 09 2008
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when I was in prison it was the worst... everyone in there wants to convert, they all have to make everyone see things their way



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Sinora
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As far as I'm aware there is no proselytizing in my faith.

As someone has mentioned, there is a difference between that and sharing.

I have no objection to listening to people who knock on my door and tell me about their religion, it's one way of learning about someone elses beliefs.

History tells us of the pros and cons of proselytizing.

On the one hand destruction of others cultures, on the other aid in the form of food, clothing and education.



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HellHathWings
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To proselytize and advertise such things as food, water, clothes... (not name brand) is a need. But to advertise religion is wrong. Personally, I don't even like seeing on public tv. If I want to see it, I will buy the DVD/ CD. Or better yet go my local church. If all else fails there is a thing of history and past called the Library. It is full of books on everything. For the most part, you aren't bothered there either with the old fashioned "Have you found....(fill in the blank)...?"



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Jamie
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Yea, it IS annoying isn't it, for Christians to do that. I am into the belief systems that don't do that. It's live and let live basically.....Buddhism, spiritualism, Hindu, Zen...



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Undervampsgaze
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I say why push people into believing in what you believe.. Let them find thier own way.. You can tell them your beliefs and if they are not interested then do not push it.. I say only convert them if they seem to have a interest.



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daemona
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Personally, I am Wiccan and have studied a number of other religions. I do not force my beliefs on others and get frustrated when people do this to me.

As you already stated, true Wiccans as well as other paganistic religions, do not try to sway people to our belief, although we will certainly educate and even get into heated debates with Bible-thumpers if provoked. (no disrespect meant by that statement - it is just what I call any person who tries to sway me to their religion.) I am all for sharing knowledge but all religion is a way for one to come to terms with our mortality, to give order to disorder, to explain the unexplainable if you will...I do not believe their is a wrong religion - it is a very personal choice. However, there can be things in a religion that are not true - and those points I do correct (when spoken to about them).





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dabbler
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22:53:39 Aug 11 2008
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People that think if you don't accept their religion, then you don't accept them. Some even take it further, if you don't accept their faith then you are against them, fanaticism.



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Neinmortlan
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To me, Faith and Religion are at their purest when they are personal. The moment something becomes organized, it can't help but become diluted.

So, from the point of view of a true believer...
How is actively recruiting anyone a good thing?



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temporary2
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My belief is that a person will be drawn to a religion by the Universal Source, no matter how much coercion is used any change will be temporary. Proselytizing is a waste of time long term.

I have good friends who are from several religions and we agree to discuss religion and not recruit.



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dabbler
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? well said.. thank you? When such words as discussion are used I think interaction not intrusion, or conquest..

I have often asked the street crusaders, "What is in it for you personally for me to convert?" They usually reply, " I care for your soul." I ask why, "they reply, because you are going to go to Hell." I have heard people ask pre-teens, during retreats, "Are You Ready to die tonight, without God?"

The veiled intent of some evangelist has even been admonished by other members of the same religion. Putting bodies in pews reeks of profit, for prophets.



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dabbler
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23:28:07 Aug 12 2008
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The extremes, keeping in mind people send there kids to these events for social as well as religious reasons.



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HellHathWings
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I guess forcing you kids to go to religious events is a form of proselytizing. It is wrong too. Introduce it. Great. If they don't want it, let them choose what they do want or lack thereof.



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dabbler
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Telling them that they are going to a fun place, they are usually told to invite there gentile friends as well, they hold car washes, to pay for their friends, image if you where told by the neighbors kid that there was a chance to send your kid to camp to socialize with the neighbors kid, and they come back , from such a intense event?



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TrinityDemarco
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Well, I suppose the best way to describe my faith is as a Universal Unitarianist, as I am still searching and think every religion has some of it right and some of it wrong. How that particular establishment feels about "recruiting" I'm not sure, but I tend not to share my beliefs with others unless they open the door. I have never seen anyone convince someone else to give a new religion a shot by telling them they are wrong and there is only one true religion, follow me or you'll perish, etc. Regardless of the religion, people seek out like-minded believers for a feeling of acceptance and family-that's hard to feel when someone's screaming at you that you're a lost soul.



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MinervaOfTheCrows
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02:19:34 Aug 15 2008
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I think the crusades are what started it. I am not a huge fan of people that try to convert people into thinking what they believe. It's more or less brain washing. My religion doesn't do that, there is no point. If a person has a will let them do what they want.



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JedixMasterxCheryl
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Actually, aren't all religions based on symbolism and utilize pagan signs and special dates in some way or another?

I think all religion is bunk for the most part and I wouldn't ever try to proselytize to anyone about anything concerning their spiritual side.

We all have different truths so who am I to push my thoughts off on someone else?

JMC



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InADarkPlace
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I was raised in the Church of Christ and i honestly do not know if our church did this or not.
I do know that our preacher himself would come to people's houses to call if there had been a serious illness or accident to offer comfort and just talk with us.
I have had people from Jehovah's Witness, Seventh Day Adventist and Mormon here trying to talk to me but the one that did not seem to understand no the worse was this guy from a Baptist church in our town.



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dabbler
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some that get caught up in the witnessing, are the new converts, they actually have a more altruistic purpose then long time members to faiths, they are led to fear that all their friends are not going were they are, after this.. the friends of a new convert are likely to have varied reactions to this. I listen, and I share in return what it is I believe happens after here, just to rest their concern, if they press, then I will respond by highlighting the reasons I do not accept their faith.. assuring them that I am not against them.. just not accepting of their faith as attractive to me.



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Ryver
Ryver

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23:25:16 Sep 15 2008
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A big part of my beliefs is accepting other people as they are. So no, I don't proselytize. As for other people doing it, I consider it rude and presumtuous.

If I ask a question, you're welcome to tell me all I ever wanted to know and more. Until then, I don't need to hear it.



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cryingmoon
cryingmoon

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23:46:49 Sep 15 2008
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i dont belive on pushing my belifes on any one, but if i am asked or challaged about mine i will or could be pashionet about it



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dabbler
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01:41:27 Sep 16 2008
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Well said Crying Moon.. Those people who ask you what you believe, or don't believe just so they can tell you why believing, or not believing it is wrong.. that is annoying. Especially when they use loaded questions.



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Jypcie
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02:44:37 Sep 16 2008
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Currently I dont claim a religion ( I do believe in a Creator/Creatrix) I personally don't try and convert anyone to my spiritual beliefs but if they ask I share. The religion I grew up in however did this, and actively. The reason why is because they are told they should. I believe it was the story of Jonah and the Whale that they used as an example. Jonah didn't want to go out and "Spread the Word of God" so he ran away on a fishing boat consequently it sank and God had him swallowed by a big fish until he relented and said he'd go teach the "heathen masses".



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ArtemisSaeoteeHunter
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03:30:22 Sep 16 2008
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I do not have a specific religion, so no, there is no "missionary" work it is involved in. The only benefit I can see from my point of view on "spreading the word" is that in this way, people know what their options are. But if there's no force, then it's not the true thing is it?



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KCRC
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04:11:32 Sep 16 2008
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First I must point out that I am a Christian, and an Elder in a main line chrisitian denomination. (Just so you are aware of where I "come from").

Second My definition of Proselytizing: (from Wikipedia)

Proselytism is the practice of attempting to convert people to another opinion and, particularly, another religion. The word proselytism is derived ultimately from the Greek language prefix 'πρός' (towards) and the verb 'έρχομαι' (I come). Incidentally, proselytism is prohibited in Greece, according to the constitution of Greece. Historically in the New Testament, the word proselyte denoted a person who had converted to Judaism. Though the word proselytism was originally tied to Christianity, it is also used to refer to other religions' attempts to convert people to their beliefs or even any attempt to convert people to another point of view, religious or not.

Now that that is over with, I must say that yes I engage in Proselytizing.

Why? Because I truly believe that my faith system is a valid path to eternal life.

I think the greater question, however, is the HOW, not the why.

I believe that conversion should be facilitated rather than sought out. The way to gain believers is to "walk the Walk", to live your life as an example. This way people will seek you out to convert if it is waht THEY want. The missionaries that our congregation and denomination support do not place conditions of belief on the assistance they provide. They offer medical services, agricultural assistance, technological help without regard to the religious beliefs of the people they help.

So, to those who say they do not proselytize. Do you never try to convince another that your belief system is valid? Do you not attempt to 'convert' other's opinions to your own? Does your 'faith system" accept "converts"? If so, you are indeed "proselytizing", you just don't call it that as the WORD is distasteful to you, not the act.



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xXxSKULLYxXx
xXxSKULLYxXx
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04:54:38 Sep 16 2008
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I believe in that someone , not a specific person or animal or god is up there , i believe someone is above us , that created all this!
maybe its all of those different persons or animals , but i really dont know , so i dont believe in a need of spreading it to others!



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Ryver
Ryver

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20:38:40 Sep 16 2008
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So, to those who say they do not proselytize. Do you never try to convince another that your belief system is valid?
No. I do not need to have my beliefs validated by anyone else to know they are true for me.

Do you not attempt to 'convert' other's opinions to your own??
Actually I don't. I'm willing to explain what I believe if asked, but I don't try to convince anyone of anything. If my path happens to be right for someone else, they'll come to it on their own.

Does your 'faith system" accept "converts"?
My beliefs focus mainly on the journey, not the destination, so the answer would have to be yes and no - depending on how you look at it.

For a lot of people the spiritual journey begins on one path and ends up in another (sometimes several times), allowing for a type of "conversion". I believe that such conversions are all part of the journey, with something to be learned from each one.

Sometimes different things converge into a single road. Some people walk wherever the road leads. Some will leave the road to explore something new - sometimes returning to it later on, sometimes not. It doesn't matter. The point is the journey.


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Jamie
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09:11:32 Sep 18 2008
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Oh I agree! Christians have always done this though. They have always pushed their beliefs on others, regardless of how the other person has told them they have their own beliefs. They have this arrogence...ego, and need to control everyone else.

By the way, religion is not spirituality. And,

remember...Just going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in your garage makes you a car.



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Jamie
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09:12:06 Sep 18 2008
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PS--if that post pisses you off, it's because I have touched a nerve of truth. ;)



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Beastt17
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17:07:18 Sep 18 2008
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Preaching to someone about beliefs they have no interest in is annoying and rude whether it's religion, your favorite brand of car or which football team you prefer.

However, the idea that "sacred" beliefs should be somehow protected from discussion is an absurd and out-dated concept. We can talk about whether Ford or Dodge makes the best pickup, whether Canon or Nikon make the best cameras, who is most likely to win the Superbowl or the Tour de France but because you label a belief "sacred", no one is supposed to talk about whether or not the concepts have merit? Says who?

Do names like Reverend Marshall Applewhite, Jim Jones or David Koresh have to be raised before people remember that there is potential for damage? If people believe things which are potentially harmful -- no matter what the basis of that belief -- I think discussing the relative merit (or lack of merit), to such ideas is not only proper, but beneficial. That doesn't mean they should be cornered and forced into a discussion in which they have no interest. But that's not something I can recall ever seeing occur. What usually happens is that people go on and on about their specific beliefs, and as soon as someone attempts to offer any failing of any of those beliefs, the one who started the discussion starts screaming about how they shouldn't be forced to listen and how their beliefs are sacred and should be protected against anything they personally assess to be disrespectful.

If someone thinks the Earth is flat, no one is prohibited from offering them the evidence to show that it's a spheroid. But if they hold "sacred" beliefs that the Earth is flat, no one is supposed to correct them even after they keep tossing their flat-Earth concepts in everyone's face? That's just prejudicial, evasive and ridiculous.

I see it like this; if you don't want to talk about it, then don't talk about it. But if you start it and keep throwing it in people's faces, then you have opened the door and that door is now open for both sides.

Throwing your "sacred" beliefs at people and then proclaiming they have no right to demonstrate counter-points only suggest to me that both realize the counter-points exist, but one side is attempting desperately to avoid seeing what they know to be true because without that level of denial, their "sacred" beliefs cannot be held as true.

If someone held the "sacred" belief that cannibalism lead to a more homogeneous collective consciousness for mankind, I would have no problem in attempting to demonstrate the failures of such a belief. And if they put that belief on the table by tossing it in anyone's face, then they have no business hiding behind the out-dated idea that the label "sacred" makes any concept beyond discussion.

So I think simple courtesy is the key. If you don't want others to put their beliefs in your face, don't put you beliefs in their face. But unfortunately, the current system relies only on majority. Those with majority beliefs believe they have every right to continually project their ideas into every conversation, but rely on their outrage and emotionalism the moment anyone attempts to take up the counter-point side.

That's just wrong.



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RootedinEvil
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18:18:59 Sep 18 2008
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Maybe it's not the 'standard' for Pagans to try and convert... doesn't mean it isn't happening.

I have a mother whose tried to push new age stuff down my throat my whole life. It happens everywhere, no matter your belief system. Christianity gets a bad wrap (because of all the people who earn the wrap). I know, not all Christians are out to shame other people's beliefs. I want to be respected, that is all- and I do that by respecting other people's beliefs. After all, I have incorporated many valid pagan philosophies into my own personal Christian spirituality.

I also worked with a fellow retail manager that always wanted to have talks about why I needed to wear a crystal and how to cleanse and charge it. I've been pitched on pagan courses. It happens (that's why you see the flyers in towns where paganism is prevalent). None of us should be self-righteous about our religions, spiritualities, whatever politically correct term you wish.



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dabbler
dabbler
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18:34:23 Sep 18 2008
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Too many people are out to make others question their lack of belief/acceptance of what they call belief. Yet are shocked when the response raises questions in their own. Then their are those that just want to stump (debate fashion) the accepted observation of non-believers.

The pressure on followers of beliefs to convert, has always made me question motive. Some Christians, and even metaphysic practices/religions somehow think that telling people to open their minds, is just as insulting as "You are going to hell, for not believing."

Then there are those idiots who think that just because someone doesn't follow their faith, that they never took part in that faith, as an Apostate myself I really don't care for Christian Tactics.

After being involved in the Spiritual Churches, I got out, but I found that on the way out, what attracted me was the social aspect, and this accounts for a large fraction of "converts" to faiths. Devote conversions are actually rare, yet once you fill out a welcome to our church card you are used as ballast for the church.

Social seekers in churches tend to "go through the motions" with the practice.

I have also noted that once a person converts, and accepts the process to get into the fold, they are soon brought other decisions to accept, some with this or that, like denomination, translation, how to do the sacrament, and "Don't you believe this is the way the text meant this." That pious assumption is rank in faiths.



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Beastt17
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20:21:34 Sep 18 2008
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If you want to proselytize, then find someone who enjoys the discussion and have at it. I have NO problem with that at all. It's no secret that many different religions do prompt their followers to proselytize to others and this sometimes leads to those knocks that come to our doors much too early on the weekends. I used to just turn those people away with a polite, "I have my own beliefs, thank you". The last time I had the intent to do that, he was well into a verse in his book before I could open my mouth. So I shifted strategy and started naming off verses for him to read. Then I showed him how if one of those verses was true, the other couldn't possibly be true. I lead him through one of the stories and then demonstrated the impossibility of the assertions presented.

That was about 2-years ago and he still comes by once or twice a month. We talk for a bit, he presents his topics and I'm happy to engage anything he wants to present. The conversation usually ends with him saying "well, I don't understand that much about science", and with both of us agreeing that we enjoyed visiting with each other. I have respect for him because he's respectful toward me. But I have demonstrated the reasons that I simply cannot hold any respect for his beliefs. And he's fine with that.

Beliefs are much like people in this aspect -- they get respect when they earn respect. Anything else they're offered that might look like respect can be offered with nothing but insincerity. No one's beliefs, no matter what they are, should be offered respect as a default. Beliefs which demonstrate merit earn a degree of respect. Otherwise, they should be offered no respect, feigned or otherwise.

So I say proselytize if you choose and I'll rarely fail to engage you in discussion. But be forewarned, having spent four years in a forum specifically intended for the purpose of proselytizing and promoting a specific religious belief; I've seen what happens when those beliefs are presented on a platform allowing both sides a degree of latitude for discussion. The deconversions out-weighed the conversions by 13 to 1.

Maybe the better question is; do you really want to proselytize?



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Anansi
Anansi
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18:01:20 Sep 19 2008
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I prefer not to. I simply live my life the best I can and if people want to know more about me, then I will tell them. I try to lead a good example. It seems like most people are turned off because off a lot of organizations taking it to far, harassing, etc.



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Nicnic
Nicnic

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15:14:01 Oct 04 2008
Read 828 times

I don't believe in any one religion but gather my ideas from many different ideals that make sense.

I don't agree with proselytizing. I feel that a person should be free to make their own choices and judgments without persuasion. I think that if they have questions they should be able to ask and have those questions answered...but trying to sway a person to believe one way or another is not, in my opinion, a way to make a true believer out of anyone. It just proves that your speech was convincing.



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dabbler
dabbler
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00:02:26 Oct 06 2008
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I cannot help questioning the motive for some people that press their beliefs on others. There are few people that have tact in their approach.

People that come right out of the gate with their religion, even before breaking the ice.. they scare me actually, especially when it becomes clear that their fellow believers stir clear of them as well.


I have listened to people that have tact, and those encounters are usually if not a spiritual awaking for me, they are at least a social interaction to be remembered fondly.

The people that are too ready to "tangle" with unconverted people.. they sadly stand out more then the non-pious people.



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Nicnic
Nicnic

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00:58:13 Oct 06 2008
Read 817 times

It feels pushy. I've never understood the idea.


You call someone a sinner. Say they're going to hell. You tell them that you are clean now because of __________ religion.


And you expect that the results are going to be that they are going to say,"Oh you who have just called me a heathen...I want to be just like you!"


Not likely.



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Stormwind
Stormwind
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03:19:11 Oct 06 2008
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Proselytizing faiths generally are those that believe they hold "the truth" as opposed to "a truth". Even within one Faith there may be denominations that seek to convert others more actively than others.

My own faith is Christianity - which depending on denomination can range from the "sharing" side to the actively "proselytizing" side. I can cite specific references within the Bible that are the basis for the proselytizing groups... it is interesting that Islam has similar commandments, though even more forceful ones, but Judiaism really doesn't...



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Beastt17
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07:05:20 Oct 06 2008
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I've seen several claims of "the truth" from a few different religions. One of the problems seems to be that even those who choose to proselytize, seem incapable of demonstrating them to be truths and are just as incapable of refuting the many false-hoods.

It seems few followers are really familiar with the history of religion and the origins of the often common components which seem to be shared among many of the more popular beliefs. If they don't have the foundation, successfully presenting the truth they claim, usually becomes an exercise in back-pedaling or pure denial.



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dabbler
dabbler
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20:31:07 Oct 06 2008
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Those that once they are told that a person is not interested in their faith, turn to trying to stump the persons disbelief.. that really gets me, because as soon as you test their faith in return, they act all hurt, and offended.



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zeraphim
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22:05:59 Oct 06 2008
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only the weaked will can be converted.

I like to listen to other ppls religion, but as soon as they say you instead of i...im normally first one to switch off



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Ravena
Ravena
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22:26:30 Oct 06 2008
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I don't think that trying to share about your religion is a bad thing but when you try to convert someone it's useless...When people try it with me I straight up say Leave Me Alone!
I love to learn about new religions but don't try to get me to convert and don't beg their only making theirs self's look like idiots!



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Behomoth
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00:42:52 Oct 07 2008
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I know what you are inferring and certain religious views are that they are saving you from a fate worse than death. Can you imagine that...a fate worse than death? They feel that the views of others are influenced by something they consider evil and you are unable to judge for yourself correctly in the matter. You essentially have been swayed so they don't look at it the same way. They feel your life depends on them spreading the news. If that is what you are brought up to believe how can it be faulted. To them it is of the utmost emergency and their life's goal to save people.

Others see this as negative and some can be very bothersome and have to be put in their place. Again they think it is dire and something they were taught was what their deity conveyed to them was a very important thing to do for humanity.

All one can do is say you are not interested and hope your wishes are respected. You cannot blame someone for something they believe with all their heart and soul. They don't think of it as a bad thing but others do and it will be always a stalemate in this area.



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dabbler
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00:47:48 Oct 07 2008
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The encouragement they get when they attract a convert (usually because the organization presents a social function to the individual.) that is when the intent is revealed, the convert, and envelop, as opposed to the convert and abandoned. Or hit and git ministers (usually very confrontational in their prostlatizing)



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Beastt17
Beastt17
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09:49:41 Oct 07 2008
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I find it interesting that if someone wants you to accept a belief without evidence, they suggest that you maintain an "open mind". And yet when the roles are reversed, it is said that only those of weak will can be convinced to change their beliefs.

In my opinion, both assertions are missing the mark. The key is not to be so proud and obstinate that one refuses to accept when a more logical, more likely or more evidenced belief is presented. Nor is the key to accept that which is illogical, unevidenced or less likely, simply in the name of maintaining an "open mind". An open mind soon fills with irrational clutter and becomes useless as a beneficial guide.

The key is to be open to rational assertions, to be cautious of any assertion which is lacking in objective evidence and to be humble enough to admit when your beliefs are less logical, less likely or less well evidenced than the beliefs of others.

As long as one is open to discussion, there's nothing wrong with proselytizing. It's simply a means by which to offer what the believer may hold as a more correct belief. Of course, as with any other conversation, no one should be forced into a discussion they don't wish to have. But when both sides agree to the discussion (and it should be a discussion rather than a preacher and audience), both sides should remain humble enough to recognize the merits of assertions contrary to their beliefs, assuming greater merit exists. Holding any belief out of pride or a desire to prove how stubborn one can be only robs them of the opportunity to better themselves through acceptance of more accurate and reasonable ideas.

Holding false beliefs is harmful. It degrades the reasoning capabilities of the believer, (harms their ability to make reasonable decisions), obstructs the development of their culture and retards the advancement of mankind.



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dabbler
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20:38:27 Oct 07 2008
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The sound of Barking Dogma fills the air around the pious.



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dabbler
dabbler
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20:56:24 Oct 07 2008
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dabbler
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21:46:04 Oct 07 2008
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Dismissing the creative process for that of strict beliefs, has set us back in arts more then once as a civilization. religions are noted for banishing the creative people from their societies.

John Lennon even knew this, Notice he said "Imagine All the People" Not "Believe all the People".



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Wolvie
Wolvie
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08:51:43 Oct 08 2008
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If no one shared their beliefs then those beliefs would die with them. ALL religions would die without people spreading the word of that religion. At the same time that doesn't mean that those people should force their religion on anyone else. A very large percentage of religions teach the spreading of the word. Something that gets lost with a lot of them though is that you can't force that belief on anyone. Most of those religions also teach freewill and that belief in the religion has to be by choice not force. There are a few extremist religions that actually teach that if you don't join them you are against them. The interesting thing is those are NOT christian religions. While some people within christian religions may try to teach that it is not actually part of the religion. Too many people in christian religions forget things like "judge not lest ye be judged". Freewill is supposed to be a big part of the christian religion. A large percentage of religions probably pretty close to all teach that their path is the right and one way. If they didn't do this they would not be very likely to get many followers. I don't have any problem with anyone that offers to share their religion. I do have a problem with people that do this and won't take no for an answer and or ridicule, persecute or harm you for not accepting their belief. As for TV evangelism and church shows they have just as much right as anyone else to be on TV. If you don't like these shows change the channel. By the same token those people should not go after shows with opposing or different views for the same reason. If you offer to share your religious beliefs with someone and they accept, then you should also be prepared to listen to theirs if they have any. If someone rejects your religious beliefs that alone doesn't mean you should reject them.



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