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Okay, i heard my friends theory. He said that maybe the christian "god" was a slave owner. All angels were slaves. none were more than human and they all lived on earth. Lucifer got pissed because god was a dictator and him and a few more "angels" revolted. Then god got mad, exiled him, wrote a book, IE holy bible.



Thoughts?

wow.

Thats actually really interesting. I never heard of the idea of god and angels in that kind of form before.

You really don't know but it could be possible. Why else would have lucifer been kicked out with those few that had followed. Since god does forgive those whom have sinned as long as they repent. Wouldn't it go for lucifer aswell.

Sounds about right.

If you really think about it, our DNA has been genetically altered over time, and we have always been visited by some type of intelligent life throughout history.

My theory on this is they are trying to make us highly intelligent like them, so making us slaves is a test.

Can we become as intelligent as them, doing and knowing all that they do? Will we resist the false control that is now over us?

I think we are all being tested, everyday!

We have no other choice but to wake up, or else stay trapped in this hell on Earth.

Trent Reznor wrote in one of his songs "Your God Hates You", most people don't think about the true meaning of this.

Whatever is out there playing with us like puppets, it wants only those that are worthy. The ones that can see past all the lies.

You misunderstand slavery. You are identifying slavery with the american version, which is like equating the swastica with the Nazis, a niave meme.

Angels were created with a purpose, just like a glassblower makes a beautiful vase, the vase is turned into a lamp. It is still a vase, even though it serves as a lamp; it is simply and always be a ruined vase.

Ownership is of no importance to the creator, slavery is a nonissue, the object was created as much out of love for creating as it's usefulness. The sadness of the destroyed vase, and someone (not the creators) sense of inadaquacy of the vase... is tragic.

Mankind however, (to use the analogy) was created to be both the vase, and the lamp, and can be purposed either way, it is however created with the sense of hope that it will realize that it does not need to be a lamp in the presense of the sun.

By that reasoning, presenting Lucifer, and God as actual entities.

it defaults that all who worship Lucifer, are in no favor of Lucifer, why would he want followers.. ie.. devotees.. slaves, when that was what he revolted against?

You seem to be speculating the stories of Enki and Enlil. I would research into these two entities further for more of the story behind them as well as the supposed Mars slavery factor and the Reptilian race of advanced being known as part of the Angelic/Demonic entity phenomenon.

I personally never had religon really forced upon me. I've only heard the stories of things but never really found the whole god, lucifer, angels, demons thing something to really focus upon. I'll admit I do need some schooling on that but it is definitly an interesting way to look on the other side of why hell came about. Like I said I'm not to good with this topic but from what little I do know(which isn't much).

If anybody knows pls enlighten me.

Okay ill revise it because i didnt put in that god was a man as well....
christians "god" was a man. He owned alot of slaves and had them working under horrible conditions. One of the head workers(angels) named Lucifer was sick of tyranny and had a talk with some others who were brave enough to go with him and they revolted and tried to overthough god, but he had to many gaurds so he was exiled. Then god was afraid future generations would think he was bad, and him being the concieted prick he was, wrote the bible and thought of himself and all his slaves as elite and deserving of recognition for their ownership of so much property and immense wealth they called themselves the creators. And they told all thier offspring this tale andit became not only written, but an oral tradition and that could be where preachers and priests started

Very interesting way to look at things. Also fits with the fact that many satanic and luciferian churches promote living life, doing what you want, giving in to your desires and such. While it has been a cycle throughout history that many who did not obey christian rules were killed for not listening to their "creators" words. I don't know what really happened, but I'd say that this theory fits better than the one history accepts.

And could coorelate with all evidence thats been found about Jesus Moses Isaic and the rest along with 10 commandments etc.

Ok..

This is when I'm going to be a pain in the butt. I'm only trying to understand because I've never looked at as this.

From my understanding and this is why I'm not much of a religous fantic. The bibles, churches, etc were written by man but inspired by god. Thats what I understand. I always thought that lucifer had exiled lucifer and the fallen angels because lucifer felt that god favored man and loved man more than them and lucifer having enough said screw this I'm out, whos coming. lolAnd than god said well you know what feel my wrath. So lucifer falling from the heavens with the rest of angels crash landed so down into the crust of the earth that hell was than formed. This is the little story that's coming up in my head. *chuckles* So it's kinda like god made an example of lucifer and the fallen angels,

So would that mean that hell is the absence of gods light and what not?

But that would make sense that if you don't follow the 10 commandments, and the bible and all that stuff. than you would suffer the same fate as lucifer and the fallen. Am I getting somewhere on this, because I never saw in this view.

Then the following of any religion, cult, order, or system of belief would make one a slave to "the master."
Once again we seem to be blaming the "Christian" God for all the evils of the universe when in reality most were caused by man (or woman). I'm not here to justify or to "force" any religion on anybody but to constantly blame one religion without looking into the evils or cruelties of others is a bit absurd and totally unfair. It does get back to that whole double standard referred to in another thread.

There's no blaming going on that i see in this thread. It's just discussion on his friends theory. I myself don't have a religion but love to hear the theories behind each one and will gladly discuss them.

Okay no. I never said "the christian god is the root of all evil." First of all my good is anothers evil so good/evil are words i dont use. 2nd, how is listening to what another person says or belonging to a religion make you a slave? As long as you have free will and do as you please your FREE not SLAVE

No JudasBrood, I did not say that "you" had made that accusation. My point was that too often on the Rave people tend to use Christianity as the source of most evil and then promote the concept that there is no evil; that it is simply a matter of interpretation.
Also it has been proposed that those who are Christians are like slaves or cattle to their religion. I would suggest that such an argument would apply to any other religion as well.
My entry is meant respectfully to all involved because I do not and will not "force" my beliefs on others. And because I happen to be defending one religion at the moment does not mean that anyone here knows what my particular beliefs are. Just making sure there is equal time for all.

But even christians themselves refer to theirselves as "sheep". Which shows te level or brainwash they've had when they will admit they are puppets on strings so for a slave who admits he is a slave is nothing more now, nor will he be more than a slave

So priest, and clergy would be userpers to the plantation of God, though the whip, and yoke is fear of a tormented after life, and even your reward (for your service) is in the after life, though fear alone is not used, Awe is used, example the Animated statue, and stage magic. When I want to read of a spiritial profile, I read on Koko Pali. a traders dieity. What is the best way to assure you can keep up with brand supply, is to have a free raw material. There are so many other faiths, that orbiting one, is to miss expanding in the underlying metaphor. In a sense a majority, of Christians shame even fellow christians.

How we moderates our devotions, is a measure of how certain we are of our faith, a little sensation not bad, but like Night shade, it is best utilized in small dose. sell a person a physilogical occurance in their body.. that is corrupted. How odd that the a majority of "slaves" are "slave enforcers".

I think he seeks out people that already agree with him or at least has no intention of arguing with him.

I just have one question... What is your obsession with religion, or certain religious denominations ~Judasblood~? Of course your name conotates and says it all, but still.

Everyone's version of God is metaphoric, and reminds me of all mythology. The Gods and Goddesses on Mount Olympus were flawed: jealous, vengeful, petty, lascivious. They could also love. They were metaphors for humanity, and so is the slave gambit. Not sure about the Martian reptiles. That's a new one for me.

Their not really martian reptiles, more like multi-dimensional advanced beings, but in reptilian form.

That whole god and angels theory has got to be the biggest crock of bull I've ever wasted the time to read and post to.
I'm sorry..... Just.... wow....

Hmmm, dabbler were you referring to me? Interested in only those who agree with me or who I think won't argue?
Strange, I usually find yours posts intelligent and thought provoking. On some I agree and some I am open to debate.
It really doesn't matter to me who agrees with me but tolerance is a two way street. As far as hoping nobody will argue with me, I hardly think that applies.
Two people don't have to always agree to respect one another.

No offense was meant their, I was only addressing an angle.

sort of running with the idea. It is rather hypathetical.

and a bit far rreaching to begin with.

No offense taken. I believe the variety is what make the Rave go round.

Some consider all "sweat shops" to be slavery, yet in many cases the operations are all that keep the workers heads above the hard poverty line.

Sounds roght to me why else would they "rebel"?

Crazy yet Plausible
I like it :P

I have not ever heard of the angels and lucifer or even god described in that fashion. Yet, if you believe that than want are we the Humans... Puppets, slaves I mean how are we veiwed by our creator?

I just do not see how it is slavery they can always fall away .. lucifer was just as guilty I mean his followers are exactly as he was and what he fought to leave, yet... hummm he is doing it as well.

Too much Power always goes to the head and nothing good comes of it.

I have to say this is an interesting post.

Of course, anyone familiar with me knows how I feel about organized religion and the idea of Slavery.

If yo follow the old testament accounts, slavery is something that was a fact of life. And..if you read it carefully, the idea of the angles being second class creations..or slaves... makes sense.

Yes, an interesting theory for sure.

Or, one could also see the correlation between human experience and what was created as religion, to give god a more human and thus more believable feel.

Regardless of which theory you go with, the majority of organized religion seeks to control the masses while helping to keep the powerful in power. A lot of psychology and playing on peoples' fears went into the writing of books like the Bible.

Very true, but slavery is not an invention of religion. It has been used by tribes and later governments to control their captured enemies or to get jobs done that would not be willingly done by free men. It is a question of power, not religion. Religion is as guilty as governments of using their power to get what they want, but then one could argue that Charles Manson's followers were slaves as well. Or the entirety of Russia during the Stalin years.

wow, Let the Hollywood moron knows about this, and you will be seen a Movie made about your topic. Interesting, may be you hit the nail in the head!!!

We all bow to the will of others by the need to fulfill our own vices. Thus, we are slaves to ourselves.

An old teacher told me once... As long as good men are complacent and indifferent, there will be slavery.

I'm sorry, but I disagree with this theory. God was NOT a man, Jesus, his son was however human and holy. That's another topic tho...Lucifer was actually jealous of the power God had and wanted to be him. He actually tried to go against God, while still in Heaven, and have his followers. I actually think God gave him a few chances, but Lucifer did choose to leave and took angles with him. I think it was his plan anyway to create an angel like Lucifer to "fall" so we'd have a choice of right and wrong. Deff. not trying to change anyones mind, just simply stating what I think. And the angles weren't slaves that is made up. The angles bow down to God simply b/c he is their maker, like a father, and they show respect that he made them and loves them (this goes for people also, just wanted to explain about the slavery)

I think shadow took my post in the wrong direction. I didn't say slavery was an invention of religion, but just the opposite. As man invented different religions they were based on experiences and knowledge man already had. This made them more plausable and more easy to adopt.

The more people that adopted it, the more that were ultimitely under the control of the religion.

And all religions are about those in power maintaining the status quo and remaining in power, so the slavery analogy works.

Judas Brood I like your style mate....

Its a bit like in 8000 years more time passes someone in the future digs up a copy of the Lord of the Rings and holy shit all of a sudden c2000 the future people will believe that we were bound by rings, that hobbits really did roam the earth and they'll prove it because dead midgets bones will be found, and they think the devil is Dark Lord Sauron who was overthrown by one of these hobbits and a King called Aragorn who really must be god

I'm ok with that,
as long as the book they dig up isn't twilight.
*laughs*

well if god created all existance he could always just rewrite it.and erase all his former creations.

LOL that was good Vladamir LOL well there is always some kind of slavery whether it be we are a slave to our own devices or to anothers devices does not matter.
Yet, I think having the choice to choose makes us free compared to others who still do not have that choice.

If you read into the etymology of the Latin pieces of the Bible, God is "Dominus"- Master- and his followers are described as "servus"- NOT servants, but slaves.

Sadly to say, a lot of Christians act like unthinking slaves... not all, but enough to make Christianity look like a pretty messed-up religion.

In place of the whip, a threat of a pit for ones undevoteed "soul".

A real intimadation/protection racket, if not outright slavery.

I have been to a multitude of services for different denominations of Christianity and have never heard of this theory. I wonder what kind of religious studies someone has done to come up with such a far fetched idea.

~Danzig~ if you read the beginning post, it explains that the thread creators friend had a theory. As such, it is the theory of only one individual and should not be confused with any religious beliefs and or governing perspectives.

Though it is a good theory, nonetheless.

I read the first post and everyone after. I only stated I have never heard of it before, and I would like like to know what it is based on. It is a religious theory so one would could only assume it must be based on religious study. One does not usually come up with theories on subject matter we have never studied. Those that do usually make no sense. Just as this one doesn't make sense.
Religion is a belief, one believes or not. That I understand. But to say God was really a slave owning man is quite silly. Why would billions worship him to this day if that was true? We would have long ago stopped believing in such an ordinary person.

I suspect that the theory was either based on a racist train of thought, advanced being relations since there is known to be a reptilian race that enslaves the population of human-kind for its energy contents alone, as well as the religious conotation that egypt kept slaves so the hebrew god gave one individual the right of exodus, as said in the book of exodus.

I do see where you are coming from, as the posters friends theory could be deduced as a contradiction based on religious idealisms as related from the book of exodus.

I grew up a Christian myself, however steered away from it as i got older and got to thinking for myself for a change....I guess in one's viewpoint it is an interesting question or theory, and considering that God has supposed killed more people than Lucifer/Satan, according to the bible, it would make one question if God is really worth cheering on so to speak. We as humans are given rules to abide by but yet, we supposedly have free will. Angelics were the messengers or the ones doing the "dirty work" for God. "Thou shalt not kill.." but yet if certain humans didn't abide by his judgement would be killed or punished in some form. So in a way, not only are the angelics slaves, but so is humanity by following these "Laws of God".

Now therefore ye are cursed, and there shall none of you be freed from being bondmen, and hewers of wood and drawers of water for the house of my God.

Joshua 9:23

Depending on your interpretation of the Judeo Christian bible this could be seen as condoning slavery?

well as anything we do we could consider it to be slavery, I mean slavery to work as a means to survive, whether we like our job or not. Slavery to a religionis the same I mean many say, lead the lamb to slaughter. so what would we *NOT* call Slavery? would be my question.

total control of ones life. Complete anarchy is the only way we wouldnt be "slaves" of some sort unless we didnt cause trouble but still didnt listen to other peoples ideas

I'm sorry maybe its me, but I'm sure the first post said that he heard it from a friend who's friend had a theory

which mean that someones mate generated a theory

which probably means that very few and i mean very few would have heard this theory unless they were friends of this friend or connected to a forum of a freind of this friend who happened to post it to debate about how good a theory it is?

So when I read " I've never heard this theory before"

I want to laugh out loud and then cut of my right testical and boil it to remover the sheer frustration and pain that the comment is causing my limited brain, yes I know its limited thats why it hurts

Can we get back to the real debate not the one about whether we've heard it before when we couldn'y have possible have!

Thats better LMFAO

lol very true vlad... i highly doubt any of you heard it before my post

its a interesting idea, there are always two views

This subject reminds me and could be linked with this interesting story of the 'chitauri' or as others have mentioned before the presence of a higher being("reptillians") among us.

Link of part 1.1.1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctIpUmJjkAs&feature=related

You seldom to hear a X-tian that will deny the fear their Lord.

The most common refrain from prostilitizing X-tians is, "Fear the fires of Hell."

birra, from that perspective you could be right. religion didn't create the slavery though certainly there have been religions or cults that made slaves of their people. Look at Jim Jones and the magic kool aid as an example.
However, that wasn't God, that was man.
To suggest that God has killed more people than anyone else is a little ridiculous. (No, I know it wasn't you that said that birra) since it has been man (and woman, don't want to be sexist) who have done all the killing.
And as BitchFromHell said, many things make us slaves. Our work, our families, our beliefs, even our desires.

Flavor-aid.. just for clarity, I am currently Enjoying a Glass of Kool-Aid, and I feel Kool-Aid has been osricized enough over a that slight.. ;)

Couldn't this rather assumptive comparison be applied to virtualy every type of society, or belief where one being sat in higher autority over any other? Making this topic a rather mute point, don't you think? Peasants revolted because their "slave master" king was cruel and unfair..... Americans revolt because their "slave master" President is unfair.... blah blah blah. The list of comparisons would go on and on and not in one instance would it be compared truly to slavery.

Slavery is a form of forced labor in which people are considered to be the property of others.

By definition my children are slaves...lol

This topic wasn't worth a reply though I left one anyway, just a slave to the system. lmao.

And as a slave myself I feel forced to respond. You are right, a very good point.
dabbler, you are right as well. For too long now Kool Aid has been the source of ridicule because of it's inclusion in Jim Jones' party. It is time that we redeemed it's reputation. I toast you with grape. (And non of that sugar free stuff, it has to be the real thing)

dye, and suger water.. Bottoms up.

Cheers.

LOL I will also clink my glass with you guys. ;)

I know that there are different meanings to slavery and well as I had said before we all are a slave to soemthing whether we choose to or not. We have to work to survive in this world in order to provide for ourselves and families.

So I say when everything becomes free to the world than maybe we are not slave to anything at all. just live and eat and enjoy without ever working. LOL yet back to being slaves of religion well I think that is an individual choice.
I mean many are terrified of burning in hell for eternity so they do what they must to stay on the good side of their god.

This is a good thread with many different points of views on the whole slavery idea, so lett he lambs follow whom they please and not be led into temptation ...

But the bottom line is we are all slaves to something or another, just depends on how one wants to see it.

As for the people who believed Jim well their dead what does that say about their own judgement of soemone.. Please NO MAN is that important in my opinion to just follow and blindly believe.

It was a very sad thing.

What is kool aid? I want a glass! geez does that make me a slave?

My kids are definately slaves!

Usery is a defining element to slavery, when a person has an option to opt out of a group, or collective.

When what is produced by the person goes to benift others, and not the person laboring for the goods, then it is more an example of slavery.

To be fair, most established churchers are providing for their cogragations in times of financial hardships.

a few key differences between cult sects, and churches.


When great liberties are taken with text interptetation, then one starts to see userption of power, to gain prestige, that is then subtly escalated to cohesive slavery, then to physical slavery.

MasqueradeDoll, that was impressive. You are invited to drink with us. dabbler, we may need a couple of pitchers.

Parents are very erroneous by thinking their kids are their property, developmental programing is something that really mold substantial amount of an individual characteristic and behavioral patterns in the long run, sometimes teaching what you think is right is not exactly right and turn out to bring more monster fighting for the same things that keep us from establishing system of mutual and rational freedom. I mean cloning could in fact end one of the modern issues and yet is held back by ethics that are exclusively brought by the evolution of doctrines in the collective consciousness, now things like smoking pot, being homosexual or fu%%ing with more than one person makes you immoral or a sinner, whatever that language is.

Its very critical to judge all parents as thinking of their kids as there property.

I for one was making a passing joke is all. I treat my kids with love and devotion but in a disciplined invironment with rules and standards, honesty and integrity, pleasures for good behaviour and punishments for disobedience.

To truely treat your own flesh and blood, family, kin as your property, as a slave to your whims and desires, so you can sit on your fat arse and smoke weed, drink till you piss yourself and watch never ending episodes of ER while your little slave in my book is monsterous.

I wonder how many families in the world treat their children this way due to religion?

I am a slave to no one or anything. I desire to pay my bills and buy items I wish to have. To accomplish this I make a decision to go to work everyday. Slavery implies ownership and forced servitude. No one forces me to work or attend church. I decide if it is in my best interset to do so.
To clarify an earlier post, I very much understand this is supposedly a theory of a friend of a friend. 1) Theories are usually based on some kind of study, not dreamed up out of the blue. 2) Original ideas are few and far apart. If you can think up an idea, chances are someone somewhere has already thought it up. How often do do see a movie or read a book that isn't a reworking of something you haven't seen a hundred times before?

Heh!.. "pleasures for good behavior, punishment for disobedience"?

Sounds like petting a dog, I believe is reasonable engaging mutual negotiations between a parent and a offspring with straight-forward discussions and that tip of affection that may trigger interest, where you can inspire and obtain some related outcomes without involving a system of "do me a trick and I'll throw you a bone", to me it seems you are inspiring what you think is 'good or bad' in your scale- by extension you are programing the outcomes you wish to obtain from them, if they do good then you give them pleasures/conformity if they don't agree with your standards they are punished; sounds to me like having no choice than to abide to the rules, furthermore a synonym of indirect developmental "slavery". Little kids are not property of the parent, they are brought by the parent, doesn't make them an extension of them in any casing.

To me is monstrous the idea of being a manipulative agent that will serve large amount of influence in another individual critical reasoning by my personal reasoning implants of what is right & wrong, furthermore bringing my diseased program in to the very system that is corrupted by the amount of tainted vessels interested in competition, self-conformity and ignorance of corruptive identification, in other words I'll be bringing another primitive human to the dumb soup of modern slavery wanting to get the program in the college to serve a system that feeds on the liberty of others less fortunate half around the planet to conform you with toys and better way of life.

My point couldn't get more clearer than this member previous post.

very interesting theory, have never thought of it that way

The most obvious form of slavery that I can see around me, is in those that become slaves to their own thoughts, beliefs, emotions and mental conditions.

Those that refuse to "look outside the box" or those that can't out of fear.

"I am a slave to no one or anything. I desire to pay my bills and buy items I wish to have. To accomplish this I make a decision to go to work everyday. Slavery implies ownership and forced servitude. No one forces me to work or attend church. I decide if it is in my best interset to do so."

Eh..my friend currency is the "modern slavery", with debt you have chains-literally, with a bankruptcy on your resident identification you can do anything, no credit-no conformity, you have to be a good slave and work your ass in the system to stay in float with your aspirations of "freedom", even to live in a place you were born you have to pay, this means the ground you are standing worth taxes of your pockets, If you don't abide to the system requirements you are not part of it, either end up doing something disruptive of the system and have your "freedom" taken away, to live as a modern zombie in the streets or excommunicated from the system; now we all know you enjoy conformity as you claim getting the items you wish to obtain, and the price of that conformity comes with debt, then we are following the cycle of slavery many are so unaware of or prefer to let the privilege of ignorance to take over the reality of the game.

So instead of building a new system and paradigms with the modern science and technologies available we let our multi-science scholastics to decrease by the year and our other less useful fields to be broaden into propelling a more than evident failing social-economic system. All this religions, politics, ignorant and irrational aspirations of programed society has halt the apparent diminutive reasoning left to get us stuck on irrational behaviors, such as war over resources & power, why else would there be war in the present times other than that, seriously; if someone even dares to say terrorism I will honestly 'fishslap' you. Everything in consensus brings inequality for opposing viewers furthermore slaves to the cause by default, so if more than half of you vote that I should be crucified it could make the idea a validating one in a collective system, and the other opposing less than half to be dragged into the decision.

OK I will admit I'm a slave to the mighty dollar. I have to have it to survive. I won't admit I'm a slave to my job though. I chose to work instead of being a thief to acquire the money I desire.

you can inspire and obtain some related outcomes without involving a system of "do me a trick and I'll throw you a bone",

PMSL

I certainly dont make my kids to tricks, and I certainly dont feed them bones for treats, the statement was a light spectrum analagy rather than a statement of absolute fact

by cutting to the chase it stopped me from writing a fucking incredible dossier of how me and my wife are parents, friends and of course teachers to our children which would of been 10,000 pages long

It looks like some hang onto every typed word, slaves to their own intelligence

If my kids draws on my newly painted wall at 13 when she knows not to direspect propert because i've taught her its not good for society to behave that way then i'll punish her even if she felt it was artistic freedom and if she is polite and courteous to others she meets, keeps herself washed and clean no matter what she wears really i'll chuck her a loving hug and say well done abi your a great girl, grown up with good morals and maybe i'll take them to the cinema, i certainly dont chuck her a bone LOL(yes i know you didn't mean it in a literal sense)

but NORE DID I!

I am really surprised at the feedback, I can't honestly comprehend some humans at time, maybe I need to reform my approach into a less cryptic argumentation,- very good; carry on.

"I believe is reasonable engaging mutual negotiations between a parent and a offspring with straight-forward discussions and that tip of affection that may trigger interest"

I felt like replying to this but you know what i'm not even going to bother

I have to agree with you. I give my children chores to teach them a work ethic. They do them well without complaint I reward them with an allowance. If they neglect their chores I punish them by not allowing them video games. I feel as parents we must teach our children morals, religion, work ethic, etc.. When they are grown they can then adapt these teachings to their life expirences and chose how to live their life as they see fit.

I understand your standpoints, and are not to be taken disregarded- given that I see where you stand in the rational sense of surviving the system been rooted in your developed program, where choices are made following the current not fighting against the stream, even if this discussion returns back to the: "what you are planting on them is what see fit right for them"- argument, but it has no relevance or will serve to any conclusive end, given that you hold a singular idealization and I grasp on another. But you could understand the mechanics of my point and you serve as a fine example of the influence that parents take place on future adults in terms of ethics possibly implanted in their youth as well.

I just like to make clear that,- you don't need to punish or overpower someone to influence what you wish to obtain from them, given that as much as you like you could only control a human being up until you have the legal authority to govern over their actions, you could never have them as you expect to see them when they are in a mature state, you could only hope that all you did wit their youth work so well that they are programed in their heads that: "this is good and that is not". Is really selfish to implant fear or discourage on a scale you feel and believe is ethical, spiritual and politically needed for a human being to survive or mature in the case of the interest of "raising a child right". Given that everything is acquired by experience and positive influence not by fear or oppression, that will only feed the curiosity.

I can agree with that to an extent. I punish my kids to teach them that our actions have consequences, not to scare them to conform to my rules. I tell my children on a somewhat regular basis what a boss once told me "you can do anything you want in life, just be willingly to accept the consequences".
Just to clarify one point, I don't force religion, politics, or similar beliefs on my kids. I have exposed them to religion but they are under no obligation to go to church. They can make decisions of this sort when they are old enough to decide for themselves.

Firmament;

I understamd if I read back how it may have looked to someone who doesn't know me

It was black and white but I know there is a lot of grey in the middle and that was the point your making I think

I do adapt the grey in the middle too and I was probably looking at your post in a defensive way

I AM NOT A BAD PARENT! sort of reaction lol

I can be like that, very black and white sounding, straight talking

and for the honour of the VR system I will conceed to say that arguing over parenting issues is not the point of the thread, thanks for pointing that out.

well I liked how you (Vladamir) Described parenting . I am a very loving parent with teachings of rules and using their minds.
I do know that alot of parents do refer to their family as property, I feel for those. we are not property at all to anyone except ourselves. in my opinion yet, we know what they say about opinions and arses ... we all have one.

I just say read my kismet now.. cause I feel we have slowly slid off topic , yet, again my opinion.

To get back on topic. I would like to know if Judas could tell us where his friend came up with this theory?

Yes that would be good, i'd like to know how this theory developed, what did he read to think it up, or was it just a light bulb moment while taking a crap?

for what reason would god need slaves?

What were Angels created for? :)

If we concider that slavery may be actuallly that God was the owner of the land that the angels worked and lived on...

as a historical account, perhaps it was the best land in the region, probably precisely because of the hard work of the serfs and an exceptional work ethic. Perhaps satan, as a taskmaster, thought the serfs were not being rewarded enough, created a level of unhappyness that formerly did not exist, and the rebellion was simply the first labour union crisis... a walkout.

Argued spiritually, you would have to wonder what the Kingdom of God is, and what the labour being performed might be, and if mankind are the scabs.

Well I would love to have someone elaborate on how this person came up with his Theory also, please enlighten us.....

My take is that there are many stories in various myths and this is just another one as well. It could be just as valid to say that we were transplanted by aliens and looked up to the prime leader as 'god' and the others as his 'angels' maybe some got tired of his crap and left, changing their colors, so he told the seeded mankind about the story in case the rebel 'angels' came back and tried to mess up the experiment.

OR

maybe this is all a program and the glitches in the system are all the world religions. The system had to make order of it so ran a diagnostic program and 'fixed' it by giving the little processes (us) the story of a supreme being and the story of it all. It changed our programming and the new process cannot seem to do without the worship of something...

dunno about all that, but what I do know is that any faith is a personal thing and it is only from their viewpoint that things either make sense or do not make sense because it belongs to them.

My take is that we make our own reality, for better or worse, owning THAT will make a heap of difference in any path you walk, IMO.

that is true we all live within th ereality that we make for ourselves, some even go alot farther with their realities and that is when society starts having propblems with each other.

You do have to take into consideration that most bibles have been rewritten a bit , such as the Kings James Version according to what he saw fit to include and what to rewrite or take out completely. So really our information is like a puzzle and most things do not even have evidence of yet. Jesus can't be found, Moses can't be found....most things are under a huge pile of sand and taking YEARS to discover so there's no telling what still lays under the dirt or what has become destroyed.

i never thought of it like that

it does poss questions,

persoanlly i think there iis more to the story then was recoreded

As for the subject at hand, that is not any friends theory, it's an interpretation for what is written around, the story of the Annunaki described by the Sumerian tell of exactly that; there were the igigi which most scholars believe them to be the ones under the Annunakis in command and were the one who carry the labour in the sciences of espionage and genetic engeniering, the Annunaki are set to believe to be the highest authority in the groups, given that the angels were just cuneiform tablets depicting things with wings or humans with wings; that could posibly mean they have a technology of flight and that's how they expressed it at the period, and some other ignorant wrote angels with wings and BS if you ask me I would say Abraham and his lineage breaking into all popular doctrines of a singular God, I think we have been screwed even the moment the annunaki set them to believe they were Gods.

It's an interestin theory and it did make me think a bit differently but my belief is that slavery is a man made invention.

So why did Lucifer revolt??

Who know's but maybe he thought god was a hypocrite??

To preach love and tolerance and all that and then leave the tree of knowledge in the garden of Eden, in essence God created temptation.

Currently, modern slavery involves shopping for unneeded items such as HD telly's, sitting on the arse all the time believing what is seen on the telly, and going to work everyday because the government wants society to believe that a money economy exists for their well being. When in fact it is all useless, because the government does not want society to realize that there is something greater out there and if society realizes this, the government would have no power over society.

Maybe he was trusting them not to do anything and just trusting him who created them... the (we) failed to trust our own creator.. that in my eyes is *OUR* fault and even slavery in any sense is our fault as well.

we are all a slave to someone, something, or even our own self. If you really think about it we are. I mean we have been working to pay debts off for our living expensesince the bible

*Although slaves were often obtained through warfare in the ancient near east, this means is not seen to have been a significant source for Israel.

The primary method of obtaining slaves was through purchase, usually from foreigners. In addition, although Israel was commanded to relieve the poor, it was common for Israelites to *Voluntarily sell themselves* into slavery for a fixed period of time to pay off debts.

wow.. so we are slaves no matter how you want to look at it, working , eating breathing etc. comes with a cost in some form.

Just my opinion is all not trying to disrespect anyones beliefs.

Hell, how do we know if the "angels and or "demons" have no free will of their own in that dimension? They may...

because if they had free will dont you think that some evidence would show up by now?

If they have no free will, I'm sure it is do to the fact that humans took "God's" greatest gift and turned into their biggest downfall. Free will in humanity, what a joke. If I had granted something as such to one race and watched them f*@k it up over and over, I'd reconsider giving it to another myself.

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