The Ultimate Vampire Resource and Directory

The thread on Magic got me thinking.

Most people seam to believe they have a requirement for focuses or fetishes when perfoming Magik.

Why?

Belief and will is all that is neccessary.

I can understand how an item, ritual, or practice focuses that belief and will, but when you reach a certain point, such childish things can be cast aside.

Rituals or spells are written down when you find a way which works for you, however no two people work in exactly the same way, so repeating the exact same mantra may not work as well for you, but changing things slightly may work better!

If so, how can you find it difficult to get resources to perform magik!

If the ritual calls for a knife, a kitchen knife will do, it does not need to be a golden sickle

Items are not magical (Well, there are excepts for those embued with energy, some crystals, and so forth) your Will and Belief and the driving force.....

Or am I a mile wide of the mark????

Discuss!

I can't argue with that. Some items have a certain significance, but if one is focused enough on the goal, it really shouldn't matter what kind of knife they use(or any other item). Could be wrong though, I do not concern myself with Magick. Though....people MAY have been talking about books etc...those things may be necessary.

I contest that statement... why are books neccessary?

They are a short cut, granted, they can give you a direction and a new way of thinking even, granted.... but why do you need 30 books on magik when the first one tells you all you need to know?

Your power is NOT linked to the size of your library... size is not everything! :-)

Very true, BUT people cant be expected to just know the basics even, sometimes just a little reference can help.

Indead, we all need a light upon the path, something to give us guidance, but when you have that guidance, what then? Does further guidence guide you more, or just cloud the subject?

Or are you just being "lazy" and looking for other people to still tell you how to think?

I quote Lisa Simpson "Its called Wika and its empowering"

Empowering, not limiting.....

lol. I don't think it is lazy. I think it has become very much apart of what magick is. Even far back in time people used tools/items to help, so I guess it has always been somewhat dependant. Granted some can use less.

Hmm, valid.

But at what point is too much too much?

5 books? 10? 30? 50?

Oh and at this point I should point out I have an extensive library myself on various subjects, I LIKE books, I just do not feel that books or tools are THE ANSWER

I have to agree. You don't need all the flashy things to get something done. For those on a low budget, and butter knife (or any other type) works just as well as an athame from a store.

My argument is for learning a formalized form first then deviating later.

Picasso did not just go into impressionistic art first, he learned the basic rules and aesthetics and then shaped them into something we had not seen before.

I feel that too often people wish to deviate from something they do not know enough about. Discipline is necessary to form your will and intent, it does not just happen. I acknowledge that there are the rare few who have this ability but they are in the minority. Even then, most of them will seek out some activity that will help them focus their intent.

Your words are true, but only to those who have already studied and learned. You can comprehend an idea before you understand it. For me, my interpretation of this is: comprehend- you can have an idea about the topic but do not know enough to manipulate it. Understanding: you have a working knowledge- meaning you know enough to manipulate what you’ve learned. If you do not understand what you are attempting to do, you do not have the right tools and need to study and learn discipline.

Yes, I do believe that everyone has the potential… but not everyone was meant to be a great magician. The reality is some of us will do better than others, and not all in the same facet of magic.

So it seems silly to be to belittle how someone chooses to learn and adapt their abilities, as everyone needs to start out somewhere.

I agree with you Liebe. I myself have bought a couple books to give me somewhere to start, and as said before a reference so I have some idea of what the heck I'm doing.

I may be just starting out, but I know that I shouldn't go into something like Magik blindly as that would be fairly stupid. I know that I would be using whatever was around the house as I have no idea where a magik store is around where I am and I don't have the money to buy all the espensive stuff.

I do beleive that will is a very powerful thing.

On focuses, all I have to say is this. I find that different books or people have different opinions, so the more you see, the better chance you have of getting more information. But no... Size isnt everything.. It is how you use it that matters... KNOWLEDGE that is.
On fetishes... Well I have been know for my 'Mistressing' and find that when someone has a fetish, it can create power, over them or for them. It all depends on how it is used.

Liebe, My intenet is not to belittle...

But, I am reminded of something nicknamed a few year ago as "Fluffy Pagan Syndrome"

It bacame fashionable to be pagan, but its relatively easy to spot the real from the fluff, the real maybe have the odd pendant, or personal symbol, a few books and bits and a belief you can bend rocks arround, the fluffy pagan has so many symbols they would sink if thrown into a river, and a library of books the miskatonic would be proud of and as much belief as a wet paper bag.....

Will and belief provide the drive, book study provides miles stones and pointers, but practice, experimentation and self learning are the path to knowledge.

Maybe I'm being a bit hard, but strength and power comes from inside, not from outside and until people learn this simple truth they will be forever hamstrung by their self imposed limitations.

Hmm... I'm preaching... Yep, been a bad day, I can tell..... damn Friday the 13th....

Druidic LOL at your pagan analogy :)

No it is a lucky day, if nothing else challenges help us learn.

You brought up exactly the point I was hoping would be hit upon.

It is something inside that alters our outer world. No, many will never be able more than to do some rituals and chants. I would argue because they do not hone their magic to their talents.

Cooking, ever see Chocolate? :)

Sewing, how about the power some people have by putting on a particular item of clothing...

The world is magic, and we must learn where we fit within that wondrous world :)

I also believe that if a spell requires something as in a candle it doesn't have to be a golden candle made out of silken wax (Yes I know that probably isn't possible) My point being is that if you have the will and determinations and believe in what you're doing you don't need a inanimate object to be magical because the magic is already in you and whatever you use when you touch it transfers the magic to that object

My problem is that I think that most people don't relize that the material thing is only a masterpiece and not the true source of the power. I mean I see people with alters and I go, I store alot of that stuff in my head (yes, i live in mormon town usa and I have to hide what I am); yet when they do spells, it like nothing and when i do them; bing bang if you know what I mean. I just don't understand that.

well what i have used over the years has been trial and error, so i have found it beneficial to use magickal aspects from all societies of ancient times and combine them together

It is true that to do Magick all you really need is the right focus and will. I personally don't think you need all that fancy stuff, like a silver goblet and such. But if, for example, that silver goblet has been infused with the energy of many generations before you, it can be quite beneficial to the outcome of the spell you are casting. In other words, I only feel the need to use "extras" if what I am using has been infused with my pure energy.

in a way when both used at the same time, you may get a feeling of more power, dominant...

I do not believe the use of focus items is strictly necessary as some are able to focus their will with no outside help. However, there are some with less mental discipline that find the use of focus items useful. I have worked with them and without with satisfactory results both ways.
As to the use of books, I read nearly anything I can get my hands on unless it’s total crap from the start. I end up tossing a lot more books than I actually keep in my personal library though.
I agree that a ritual item or book can be more powerful if only in the belief by the user that will empower it. I believe that in the end each person stumbles down their own path bringing with them what they have found useful.

I personally think it's mostly about focus & will! You don't need a book to tell you that! At least I never did! There aren't places near where I live to get any of that! You have to ride a good ways to get it! I tried books, candles, ect., but I just found that they distract me, even a written spell does! I do better if I just focus & try to will what I want to, to happen!

I have used foci, but I found little use for them as i did not have faith that they were helping me in any way...I feel quite able to focus on my goals without them and actually find them somewhat distracting....
not to say that they are useless for all....just for me....
tho i do feel that a nice library can wake you to paths you may not have considered in the past.....as long as you are not following the books blindly...

I see there are many with the same thoughts and practices I have!

this is not to say however that if you need focus's to work with that in anyway your weeker and similar, just that one day you will realise their insignificance... and than you will feel like a right silly billy :-)

Druidic, lol! You totally said 'silly billy'. Wow. Awesome. :)

So, if I understand this right, various symbols and even chanting are something of a Dumbo's feather, right? They are only significant because you believe they are. Could you then, once you pass that stage, say, be walking down the street and produce magick in your head for whatever reason?

Arunima, I think that could be what Druidic is saying. If you are walking down the street, and you can focus on the goal, then I think that it is possible to produce magick. I think it all depends on the person, and experience level.

I think in order for magik to work to it's full potential the caster has to have true faith and believe in what they are doing. It doesn't matter what you use in the ritual or chant as long as your faith is with it. That gives it the energy needed to work.

You hit the nail right on the head sister.

BELIEF!

I like the Dumbo Feather analogy, I exactly it! :-)

I think all you need is the believe it'll work and I think you have to know how you want it to work.

very true..the faith in both yourself and in the magic is the absolute key, for what are you doing in ritual but reinforcing your faith through focus and meditations?
but also focus is needed for the faith to be molded by will, so although it is possible to do it walking down the street...few outside of serious obsessive compulsives have that kind of focus, I would still suggest a place you can concentrate

It is true that magic is based on will and belief. Through my teachings my mother has told me that the items required for such spells or what have you could be cast aside. But the usage of these items are simply a symbolic thing which helps broaden the mind and give you more strength. Some spellcasters don't need such things because their will and belief are so great that they need not of petty things.

I believe that I am a supermodel.

Looks around, sheesh that didn't happen. Why was that? Did I not focus enough or intend enough?

I agree with Daermon that a place to create focus is needed, and that it can be developed, and that all people can learn. This does not change that a key thing needed is discipline.

So while I believe and intend that I am a supermodel, I will go diet, exercise, and perform rituals to help me gain the confidence needed. Perhaps I still will be one through my efforts.

While silly, this analogy is still relevant. There needs to be some sort of learning and testing to hone the skills of magic. Also again, it needs to be in an area of magic that a person has talent. Not everyone is the same.

very good point....we all learn differently...my inherent distrust of religions is how i found that ritual was mostly a crutch...I wanted to believe...I tried...but only found any result when I stopped trying...and simply started living, although I must also say..the things most people would try to use a spell for can also be aquired through hard work and dedication all on it's own without the interference of magic....something to think on I hope

Like everything you have to put a 100 percent into it. If you truly believe in something then you have more power. Sometimes we get scared with our own strength. I can share a story were a Native Medicine women was helping me counter act something that had happened to me. I women was doing a healing remody on me usuing energy and for what ever reason the pain I was feeling got trapped in my chest and of course I began to panic. I called upon my spiritual leader to help and she was able to lie me on the floor and use her energy to cleanse my body. It was so powerful that I was actually being lifted off the floor. She then gave me a lesson about Bad Medicine which is what Natives call it when someone sends you negative energy. I was also tought to be very careful who I let put there hands on me.

u don't have a book for spells all u need is the and the power the know how

well a book of spells for me would be more like a journal of thoughts and ideas, concepts of magic..that sorta thing...unnecessary..tho i do keep one..

For someone with a limited knowledge of Magick this all is very eye opening. A novice or insecure person may seem to focus more on objects or trinkets as opposed to the experienced practitioner
who has a personal vault of experience to draw from. The power of objects and symbols should not be completely discounted. But ultimately a broad knowledge of something plus the ability and practical experience to bring your powers to be will rule the day.

I have found that when performing spells that others have helped me find or given me, that the items required do not necessarily have to be there. It IS more about your energy and your belief in yourself. I do have one thing that I like to keep with me while performing magickal work, but it is not a required piece for any of my works. I keep it bc it is dear to me and I have a lot of my own energy stored in it. I do not think that it is the items that are so much magickal as it is the person's ability or inability to belive in theirselves without them...but, as has been stated, every person does perform spells and incantations differently, and that is just my opinion. Others are free to choose their ways as they work for them...

Actually your wrong Druidic. A ritual, irregardless, has those tools down for a reason. Magic can not be simple changed without its effects turning different.

Magic isn't something you can do half assed, its something that is presice and needs time and the right enviroment to use.

Anyone who understands magic to the best of their intent and will understand and KNOW exactly what I'm talking about.

Specially when Tradition is also a key factor in how its performed. Saying tools are childish is like changing the pray to a deity from "We ask for your guidence" to

"Yo, I was thinking, we need your freakin help and we are calling you down for some, so listen to me."

Nothing, no powers, no deities or the actual workins of magic isn;t going to respond in a good means to this.

- Sin

Drudic im with you all the way 100% even buckland will state that in time u can use ur fingers rather than even using a knife at all. but nonetheless most people are weak (so to speak), they need guidence and practice. nothing wrong with it, but most people that decide to convert to wicca, paganism, etc. they have not been told about feel energies all there life. that deal when u shoot lasers outta ur eyes or fire from ur hands dies with ur imagination as u grow older and the world decides to tell you thats childish, or u become bombarded by the real world. wow i went into a rant lol. but thats my idea behind it, yah...

I can agree with what the majority has stated. Certain items are needed, but others are just used for focus.

I still think anything can be used

ok heres my outlook on things.. with the use of objects You give the objects in question are balmk.. rather You give them the power that they will hold. because no 2 ppl are alike is because there evergy sig. is different. so the objects will be different as well. gregaurding majik i think that until You find Your won nitch in things wheather it be a seer a spell or a curse Your full protetial will remain dormat till Your can awake it and not use different things as a cruch.

I personally use my books as refrence and to guide... I always try to keep my tools simple... I believe it all comes from deep within us and our own energy and beliefs... Wicked Kisses and Blessed Be, Darla...

MrsDegs, What you said is very true. I beleive that you can put your own energy sig on anything that you own, and what not. As far as Magick goes, anything can be used, you don't have to use exactly what books and others say you have to use.

Hell. I own a small library. The only reason I have it is for curiousity's sake.

Every spell I've ever done has been with modified tools, the wrong tools, or no tools at all. Most of them worked out very well actually.
And I honestly mean that I'd not have any...let's say...blue candles. So I'd take a white candle and use it, or I'd take a blue marker and make the candle blue.

I've always had my own approach to all my spells. I don't think I've even really done a single one straight out of a book. I've used books as general guides. That's about all.

I don't think it made me any less effective. My intent is always right there, and taking the forefront. I'm almost worried more about what will happen if I'm more absorbed in thought of how it's supposed to be done. Then my focus slips. Slips aren't good.

all u need is belief and will and the power to do it

I feel this is the time to set a few records straight a little.

I have an extensive personal library of books, everything from magical theory, to theology and a couple of different bibles.

I consider them all "Research material"

I do not personaly cast ANY spells anymore..... my reasons, my life.

I would agree that some higher magic gains from certain "foci" to work with, but in general, the areement seams to be (On here, and in discussion with others) that foci are usefull, but not technically neccessary.

As for contacting deity and spirit, thats another thread altogether that may touch on the "Disrespecting religions" rule so I will approach that one with some serious thought and care......

Blessed be, and Interesting discussion by the way

Druidic