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Most of us believe that we have had numerous past lives, and our soul’s have been caught up in the everlasting cycle of “life and death”. Ok so I got to thinking, if this is true which I very much believe that it is, our souls must have originated from somewhere. There are many different theories on this, most of which pertain to God creating our souls on the 6th day. I am a bit skeptical on the religious aspect of this question, I am looking for some other theories that could have some significant explanations into this topic.

I would like to hear your thoughts pertaining to this question.

Here is a few reads on the religious aspects of the subject:
here
and
here

This is an open question which can only be answered by what one chooses to believe.

Yes a very open question, would like to hear different beliefs on the subject.

Excellent VR thread as ususal. Nice question VladDrakul IV

I want to approach this question by quoting the beginning of this thread:

Most of us believe that we have had numerous past lives, and our soul’s have been caught up in the everlasting cycle of “life and death”. Ok so I got to thinking, if this is true which I very much believe that it is, our souls must have originated from somewhere. There are many different theories on this, most of which pertain to God creating our souls on the 6th day. I am a bit skeptical on the religious aspect of this question

If one is arguing against the religious and by inclusion spiritual aspect of not only the origin of the Soul, but even more to the point its EXISTENCE, then the person seeking an explanation of the Soul must either admit failure or attribute the existence of the Soul to ET or a conspiracy. Sound bixarre? Have I flipped? Maybe, but bear with me as I try to point out the faulty logic inherent in the implied premise of this thread and also show that Empirical thinking fails.

The existence of the Soul CANNOT be explained empirically or rationally. Empricism DEMANDS that any phenomena can be explained by direct observation and/or experience which is natural in origin. So, very simply, by the empirical method, prove that the Soul exists. It cannot be done. Rationalism demands that existence can be logically deduced through reasonable processes. Again, rationality can neither prove nor disprove existence of the Soul. Lack of observation and/or direct experience does not disprove existence. Read David Hume for a lucid discussion of the failure of Empiricism and read Kant for a more in depth discussion of the failure of the Rational. Furthermore, Socratic teaching - especially The Republic - carries as its central theme the perils of placing rational and empirical thought as the pinnacle of knowledge and wisdom.

You see, the very CONCEPT of the Soul is born out of FAITH. Faith by its nature is irrational.

Merriam Webster defines FAITH: (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust

Note the two words, NO PROOF. There is NO empirical proof for the existence of the Soul. There is no Atheist who can POSSIBLY believe in the Soul. To do so would AUTOMATICALLY constitute a belief in something of a supernatural nature.

Faced with this we must therefore face the monolithic spectre of relious belief. I need not read the articles. It does not matter the content. Belief in the Soul MUST be necessarily be based upon Faith for the reasons already stated. HOW the Soul is treated or what beliefs are attached to it of course vary from belief to belief. Mormons for instance (see the Doctrines and Covenants) believe that Souls have always existed. Orthodox Christians, Roman Catholics, and Protestants believe that the Soul is created thus having a beginning. Some Islamic beliefs state quite clearly that women possess but "half" a Soul. (Read various "hadeeth" on the soul). Buddhists, Hindus, Taoists, and other faiths have their own spin on the Soul.

Ultimately the question here should be whether we believe the Soul EXISTS. One CANNOT posit origin without acceptance of EXISTENCE. One cannot posit the existence of the Soul by rational or empirical means.

A great thread and one that SHOULD invite spirited discourse.

Well, here's something to consider...

The general consensus seems to be that humans evolved from apes or a relative thereof. If this is true, then did our souls evolve, too? Is it at all possible that human souls evolved from the first primordial creatures?

And few people still believe that the biblical creation took 6 days, but rather that the time frame was used as a metaphor.

Then it seems to be that what you are asking for is a non-religious, be it a scientific answer, to a query which some of the finest theological minds in history have found only three, all of which have holes big enough to drive a bus through and none of which can be proved by anything other than scripture, which is shaky at best in terms of being evidence...

Thats a pretty tough ask. lol

edit: scripture, not doctrine...lol

Well, I'm not trying to speak for Stabb, but I think what he meant is that the openness of the question "begs" more questions than can be answered with simple posts. For example, souls being created on the 6th day are perhaps the "creation stories" of Judeo-Christian people, but certainly not everyone. So, to answer the question on the origin of a soul requires certain prerequisite foundations; at least for me. *shrugs..sorry, not trying to be difficult.

btw, VladV, excellent post as usual, good questions raised, as well as the questions raised by Stabb. I just don't think the "origin" of the soul can be the first question in a discussion of this nature.

Yeah, Vlad did say it a lot better than I meant to...lol

Though, I suppose that if you don't wish to look at answers based upon faith, quantum physics might be a useful area to study.

If the soul is accepted as being existent, then it must be in the form of energy, which would pertain to frequency, which could, in theory, be measured.

Once a thing is quantified, it's origin can be better understood.

*shrugs*

VladV couldn't put it in better words. soul comes from the human mind.

Very good answer VladV, thank you for your interest in this thread.

I believe in faith of one’s chosen spiritual and/or religious beliefs. I respect those who follow the religious aspect of the question, I am just trying to open minds a little to come up with alternate theories. Yes, the existence of a soul is based solely on personal beliefs, you either believe it or not. There are no empirical answers to this question, it’s purely philosophical.

Now quantum physics would be a very interesting way to look into this question. The soul is merely pure energy developed by the cosmos and returned back to the cosmos over and over again. Therefore if you believe in the big bang theory, our energy signatures were created at the dawn of time. (If there is such a thing).

Deathgnitrgrl: You are correct, followers of many religions, like the Muslim religion are taught that what you do in this life will affect your afterlife. The Muslims have a strong belief system that entails the “do onto others” theory, if they don’t follow it to a T, it is believed that they will not reach the afterlife.

i think our souls orginated in many places. which then determines how we act and what things we are good at.

well in my religion our souls are part of our creator..he gave each of us a part of himself and then the ability to manifest it to become unique to each.

I belive that really this question is useless to find a answer. I mean we all have our own belifes and who so ever will think what they choose to think.

To me this has alot to do with this thread. I have told this story on here before, but will post it here again. When my youngest son was about 4 years old he came to me and told me, how he remembered being with the angels and the angels told him that it was time leave and to pick a new mommy. He said that he saw me and said I want her to me my mommy and he was flown down and placed in my belly. He said he remembers hearing my heartbeat and how warm it was and just explained what it would probably feel like.. So was that his soul ready to come down and be reincarnated again. Of course he does not remember this anymore. But it is still amazing to me how the detail he gave of everything.

That's a beautiful story, Frankie. I don't mind reading it again and again.

I just hope whatever soul feels they're ready to maybe have me take care of them, they won't mind me never really wanting to grow up, either.

That is a most inspiring story Frankie, that has everything to do with this thread. Thank you for sharing it. That is amazing that a 4 year old could comprehend something like that. He must be a very special child.

Stabb:
To tell you the truth I don’t know what I believe, of the many theories that are present all have it’s strong and weak points. There is most likely no way to scientifically prove any of these theories, there is just the faith on personal beliefs. But it is amazing to hear the wheels of the psyche turning, brings about some very interesting thoughts.

When I was just a kid, I remember reading the words on my great-grandfather's tombstone. They derive from the Bhagavad Gita, one of the Hindu Holy texts, and supply one possible answer to your question. The word are:

"Never the spirit was born. The spirit shall cease to be never. Never was time it was not. Beginning and ending are dreams. Birthless and deathless and changeless remaineth the spirit forever. Death has not touched it at all, dead though the house of it seems."

Basically, these verses present a fundamental Hindu metaphysical belief, i.e. that the concepts we use while in this particular state of consciousness impose artificial boundaries and divisions on a Reality that transcends them all. Our ideas of a "beginning" and an "ending" have no ultimate reality and are merely illusions fostered by our dichotomous ways of thinking. So where did the soul/spirit come from? Right here! It's always been here and always will be! Ommmmmmm!

The belief of the soul is just a desperate human scream for immortality.

I have to lean toward the “Gia Theory” of one “soul sharing”.

The “Gia Theory” is the concept they attempted to explain in the movie “Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within” and failed miserably in doing.

The basic concept is that all souls, or spirits, are all part of one large force. Everything that is When something is born, a part of that force is given to that item, be it plant of animal. As the thing grows, so does the force. When it dies that force, and all the experiences and knowledge is absorbed back into the main body.

This explains why some people are just ‘gifted’ in cretin areas, or an animal just knows how to do something. Also the remembering of past lives, or more to the point, parts of a past life.

The vampire has a role in this as well. They try to extend their existence in their current form. To keep the body active and working beyond its natural dieing time required energy, AKA that life force. Be it through Sang or physic both types gain the same effect, the taking of another body’s life force.

I know it sounds sort of messed up, but to me it makes perfect sense.

Our soul is what we choose it to be. It may be a spiritual entity that resides inside of us all or an electrochemical reaction that has our life experience imprinted on it. Its origin is something that can not be explained by science and only in some sort of faith do we believe in it.

I follow much of the native culture. I believe that our souls are the energy of the universe. We are each a part of the great spirit, or the center of the "universe". Our life force is given a small piece of this energy, and we hard handed many difficult lessons throughout our life. As the soul or energy takes on more forms, it comes across more lessons, and grows wiser, and gets a form of "intelligence". This continues, until it returns to the great spirit and is "cleaned". Than the cycle starts all over again.

Certainly makes me smile, Billy. :)

And that is why we have free choice. WE can believe whatever we want, no matter how ‘far out’ or ‘messed up’ everyone else may think of ones personal belief or faith, it is still a right to believe what one wants.

I could believe that I am from the giant cabbage orbiting around the 4th sun of bettlejuice. And the power of that cabbage mixed with a good cup of joe is where my soul comes from as well as gets its power from. If that is what I believe, and helps me sleep at night, then it is my personal right to believe that. Ego or not. And no one has the power or right to tell me I am wrong.

We are all on this world for a short amount of time. Even if you do live for centuries that is a blink of an eye when compared to all eternity. If it takes faith or belief in a being more powerful then you are, I see nothing wrong with that. Awakened to other things or not, NO ONE has the right to stomp on another faith or belief system.

Of course I could be totally wrong, but it is that belief that allows me to sleep with one less problem to worry about…

I believe that souls keep coming back...reliving others lives....thus creating a sense of a collective soul. Giving us insights and expereinces that sometime suface.

SOme folks are new souls and others old souls...

I too believe in the theory we have been here before...I am not christian...but I have heard the story that God split his energy to make us...so he could see how magnificent he is (conceited bastard...lol) Anyway our purpose on this world is to live as many times as needed until we realize we are one with god. It says we have all been here many many times. We have all been rich, poor, Kings, servants, black, white, asian, crippled, heros, whatever we experience everything until we learn....Then finally we return to being one with god....If I were christian I guess this would be my favorite theory.

thats something i never really considered going in depth on... hmmm interesting... i will think about that now. i agree that it is something everyone must decide their ideas about themselves...

i think the orgin of souls is old religions... Good links and good study anyway.

Its origin, is a mystery for me as well.
I know for a fact that animals also have a soul...so i think that the soul is divided between the mind and heart and the want to live and the want to survive.
I think that after we pass on... our soul continues

there is no one place for all human kind that the soul came from its different for every person i dont know where my came from but i have never tried to find out

I think our souls are representations of beings that have trancended in past eras. Every sould is a piece of the "cosmic puzzle" that is pieced together as we all reach trancendence. After we all trancend, we create our representitives, in form of a soul, to create an even larger puzzle that will eventually lead to an ultimate end that is hidden from me.

The soul... it is in the core of my being

I believe that we have many lives to live. And that we will always come back, until we finnish what we were to do. Now this is just what I think and believe no more.

we have souls but we may not turn back this planet again..

good question ... good thread


i plan to make my lifes work about finding the soul in a human body... if the theories i have are correct then the soul is eletricity that is basicly almost excessive. extra energy created when a baby is made....

The Swedenborgian belief is that the soul is transmitted to the egg by means of the father's sperm...so in essence it's like a little bit of the father's soul. The origin of the human soul being from God Himself.

I'd rather think our soul has evolved in evolution, as mentioned earlier in the thread. How life started, and thereby the first little seed that would once become a human soul, I have no answer to come up with to.

are you talking reincarnaiton?
If so i believe its real and people do come back as a different forum or human.
But i have come back as a satants lol
Mwuahaah *evil grin*~
come on guys have fun with this nice thread by the way!

I may be wrong yet I have always belived that ~~~ this may sound crazy yet ~~~ I believe it to be your BRAIN, working in the med. field so long It just seems to be true cause once you are BRAIN DEAD there is not any part of your real self left only the shell, your body and therefore in my opion it is what makes you who you are and how you thik and just the whole make -up of your total being....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~just my opinion ~~~~

you dont need necessary to believe in god to have souls.
we all have soul,we die and when we die our soul go to other body ,some people can remenber their past life others not,is a cycle .
is my point of view

Well as it was said there are many and many theories but i like to belive thhat the soul is jst a part of our mind that control the energy inside of us ....and that after our hysial body dies our energy goes to the earth which will become one .....

What is a soul, who says that we even have a soul? We assume we have souls because we are taught that? What is your definition of a soul.

But what is a soul? You can live without one, you can even have a relatively good life without a soul. Perhaps many people around you don't really have souls. I could not really answer this question, I don't have my own beliefs about it set yet. But new souls are still appearing, so they are still being created. And, hopefully, old souls are eventually allowed to rest, to not be endlessly reborn to this world. An interesting question, it really makes me wonder.

in my point of view yes we have soul all of us.
a soul is the spirit that is inside of you,when you body die you soul goes to other body,is a cycle this is my opinion and my point of view of the soul.
you can remenber you past live,others not ,do you believe inn god?you dont need necesary to believe in god to have a soul,there is good and bad souls,like dark angels and archangels,like the light and the darkness,is my point of view

How do you know that everyone has a soul..Who says..What is the purpose?

hey i said this is my point of view,nobody tell me .
all the people have diferents points of view about souls ,but this is my point of view

I still believe that not all living bodies have souls. It's completely based on personal beliefs, however, and all a debate can do here is create bruised feelings. Cheers to anyone who's beliefs are set enough to totally answer this question, if only to themselves!

well the idea of GOD in my mindis basically that some greater entity wondered where it came from....so it set out experiments....too see if they would become as it was given the right time and circumstance...so i do feel that some entity gave us the spark of understanding of self...but i don't feel in any way that this creature is evil or benevolent....merely curious..like us.

umm... soul whats that

umm... soul whats that

what is a soul but a sprak of life that makes you live, breath, feel, see, know, remember, think even. what if there is no after life? just a passing to another body. and the ghosts are the ones that dont want to go back to another body and that something very bad happened to them and that thay dont want to move on to another body until someone finds out what happened?

well that answers my qustion

FallenDreams writes:

It may sound a bit corny, but from where I come from many of the indians believe that once you have died the soul goes into the earth, and through mother nature is determined where it shall return to life at, or what it shall return as. I don't know if that makes any sense to you, but that's what I was told....

If we are a average slice of the population, most of us believe in Metempsychosis. (Greek: from the Greek. That means the transmigration of souls.) That we live after death. That a man's soul after he dies.

Metempsychosis is certainly not only a Christian belief—the ancient Greeks used to believe you could be changed into an animal or a tree, for instance. What they called nymphs. They believed you could be changed into a tree from grief. Weeping willow.

Maybe your local Indians are not too wrong.

I have to say I really enjoyed reading this thread. There are so many interesting views on this subject. I always liked the theory presented in the movie The Seventh Sign. That souls come from The Guff, the Hall of Souls, in heaven. And when The Hall of Souls is empty and there are no more souls to be born into the world The Apocalypse will come.

It is like it was stated before no proof no faith. I have a strong religious background. My beliefs compared to those I was raised to are very different. As it was said in a movie. What is your soul, what has it done for you? Have you seen it? What do you need it for? I believe it is something said to those who have a faith that the soul exsist in everyone. It's like a fairytale, passed on from generation to genaration. The only thought I leave to you all is. The soul of a person is what makes a person. Whatever that means !! LOL

My soul as it is resides between my brain and my heart the two must be balanced for it to work properly..If not either you are led by the heart or the mind..As for where it will go after I die and leave this body that is up to whoever is incharge of souls...This is my opinion and based on nothing but what I feel to be right

how can i believe that i have had a past life when i have never died !!!!!!!!!!!!!

so ya

Ahhh so many views so little time...
Energy...but it is an energy if we all focus on it, we can control.
What is everything but that. Just in different forms. And the higher life forms have learned to control it in different ways. So...is there some "THING" out there that has learned that you throw this molecule with this and this happens...I believe that is something. And, this thought only touches base on it. Molecular biology/science plays a huge part. It is something...and that something that everyone has speculated on since the beginning that has brought about the Gods, because we had to explain it some how. But, in all reality it is us...there are those of us here who reach beyond the boundries of our mortal coil everyday...it is literally mind over matter...we just have to realize it and learn how to control it. But, know that we can.

its esoteric and intangable how can it be measured by science????

Alot of people say that we are born with souls...some peoples souls have been used/around before (hence other lifetime experiences)

Some other people say that souls are our hearts and emotions combine into one, which could very possibly be!

Other people say we dont have souls at all and that its just a load of crap...I dont believe that at all!!!

There is something inside of us, deeper than our heart/emotion's/judgement of right and wrong etc....it could be our soul...then again it could be something completely different...no1 can see their soul nor feel it...but we do realise that there is something there...it screams at us...it helps us...it could be a question of faith...but what of those who do not have faith, are there" Souls " in jepody of eternal damnation...No one really knows where our " souls " come from or how they got there...science or God or wether we have souls at all...it depends on our personal belief!

I believe if a person does not have a soul then they are dead or just cold hearted. And I also believe it all depends on how your parents raised you or whatever the case maybe.

If one believes that there was an everpresent and all powerful being to create a soul...why couldn't there be an everpresent bunch of souls waiting to inhabit things. Saying that a god or goddess created souls doesn't really answer the question it simply supplies another. Hence the first few responses of this being somewhat open ended towards what you believe. We might just be the bacteria forming on a galactic spilled beer.

Well, Websters diction was from the 1800's. so lets go with a modern def of Soul first before we discuss it's origin. Oh, there is no updated definition? Ok, well hree is my definition.

First off, humans are humans because we have soul, it doesn't matter if it is esoteric, esoteric means it is not meant to be understood, that doesn't mean that we can't understand soul, it just means that we were meant not to.

Animals don't have soul. Animals don't have a conscience. They have a consciousness, but it varies over a spectrum. Goldfish have no memory, that is why they make excellent targets for certain predators, they use the same tricks over and over again, and the goldfish never learn and die.

Humans have more of this consciouness, we have a sense of history, from that we can rise above the animals and govern our actions with conscience.

Con means "with" in Italian

we govern our body "with" science

science is the understanding of what is and what is not by empirical evidence.

Hey, you can't put your finger on soul but you know it is there. Either you got it or you don't and if you don't believe you have soul then perhaps SatinMist you don't have a Soul. The guy that keeps saying that the soul is the connection between the Heart and the Mind,

you are soooooo wrong


just joking, that is actually the definition of Soul that I came up with when I wrote Vampariah. It appears to be a modern definition.

Soul is the the expression of the heart as the mind translates experience.

The blues singers sing with soul because they are adept and adroit at examining who they are by what they feel and how they react to bad peeps. Others with no soul listen to these people sing things we didn't even know we felt or guide us to what we will feel, hopefully.

Ok, so now that we have a definition of soul, where did it begin?

Well, since animals have no soul, then it happened when humans separated themselves from the anilmals. As I said in another thread, sin is what is making us gods. The whole idea of a soul recycler someone said was a philosophy, might be close to the truth. Souls have to be cleansed after they have been tortured into spirit. If a spirit cannot be cleansed back into soul of a child, then the god of that soul in that soul is gone. He may have reached enlightenment but as the Buddhists say after enlightenment there are no more reincarnations, there was not a woman left who could recycle his spirit back into soul and save him.

Ok, so sin is how the soul gets turned to spirit... how did sinning give us a soul if the evolution of soul is from soul to spirit and back to soul, where did it begin, look at the orangutan, they are solitary, they also have no hair on their pates, do you think somewheres along the line they sinned lost their hair and became and began to act like social outcastes, that their children learned to act like them, monkey see monkey do? We definately branched off from the apes, and if you are a bible thumper you already stopped reading long ago, but if you are reading because you want to understand... understand this, there are damn sea shells on top of the Himalayas, if the Earth was created in 7 days 8,000 years ago as the Jews purport and promulgate, then how did the damn fossilized sea shells get like 20,000 feet above sea level.

Ok, so there is alonger amount of time life has been in existence on this earth, enough time for a soul to evolve.

I know I have soul, even you can feel it, right? I am proving it to you with every word combo nation, I don't believe in Websters definition of soul, but I have my own bluesy understanding, a modern one.

Only people with minds lose them, and that is because their hearts have gone against their minds and strayed from their souls to the extent they lost their soul in another's, LOVE of their soul. Love is the catalyst that causes us to sin, to gain more and more sole soul understanding.

What is the last sign of the apocalypse?

babies born without soul... keep that in mind as you fill your brain with feeling and emotion from love, and make you grow up to the point where you get self destructive because love is the most powerful thing on this earth, it is so powerful it can steal your soul, getting lost in the love of being in love. But your soul turned into spirit is strong, when soul is turned into spirit through enlightenment, perhaps that soul can rest, it has taken baby power and converted into godly understanding for an eternity some may confuse with heaven, there the soul or spirit can rest on it's laurels, whatever you want to call it.

Vampireinthesun99- How did you establish that animals don't have a soul? Is it because you don't believe that an animal can learn from it's mistakes? Animals are so in harmony with their surroundings that the only mistakes they can make usually involved upsetting humans or simple life and death survival mistakes. They don't make moral mistakes. Humans are so out of balance with nature and the world that one could make the claim that we're the only one CAPABLE of making moral mistakes. Is this the 'sin' that you spoke of as creating the soul? If so, then it would seem that the soul is a mistake, an aberition that should be corrected.

I would argue that animals are more likely to have souls than humans and that perhaps, when we fell out of harmony with nature through some sad genetic mutation, we gained this historical insight that you point out but lost our soul...our unity with nature and the universe. Maybe the animal kingdom truly pities us for the genetic bargain we made wherein we sold our sole to science and history.

yeah man so apropos we are an aberration, and are unfortunate to have the depth of feeling that make us happy sad, up and down, animal don't have this depth of feeling, they have sex, they eat, they know not love, they love you because you feed them. Even religion doesn't believe animals have souls, only Disney says all dogs go to heaven...

well, that is just what i hear that an8mals ahve no soul, but if you put a dolphin up to this screen do you think it could detect my soul? If it has a soul then maybe then.

but again we are unfortunate beings to have a soul, and well, all is not lost, I may have sold my sole soul and but yet well I have this tongue to save your soul with. Life is a time travel thing. Look at Joe Kennedy, he was in a wheelchair when his son took the presidency, you know his soul was gone, but he took his spirit and found a woman that reclaimed his unclaimed baby from out of limbo and brought the Kennedy;s Camelot into existence.

You can fight me, but I know you are one of the most reasonable men on this site, so I know you have tofight what I have concluded by what I have learned from selling my soul, I have my reasons for safeguarding your soul with the loss of my own. When I built an incredible life and waited 27 years to lose my virginity to the woman that I loved, and when the love was real SOUL love SOULMATE Love, and she passed me by because of her demons, I was put on this path to forsake my life for understanding as to why she couldn';t embrace my love and have all of me. Then I became a gigolo and lost all my morals when I was a pillar of the community. I was a broken man, and so broken I gave into my dark side, to embrace latent demons, to understand how to build Kennedy camelots at Hyannis Port, but I think you do agree with me, you just don't like my methods. The proof is in the pudding though, al that untangled DNA forms new words, deoxyribonucleic acid is a mighty long word to reconstruct life again from and it can be done. I found a woman I can't shake, that is all a man needs... a woman to believe in him no matter what, even if he has no soul and he is all spirirt, I don't have to have a child to proove I am a man, I simply can exist and be happy.

But I agree with you, and the power of the shock of the realization we both came to, that because I behaved like an animal I have no soul, that is how I know for sure animals have no soul, or as the bible says.... but they might be metaphorically speaking

as the Vlad dude up above said the souls were created on the 6th day, and that it was merely a metaphorical representation for peeps to glean significance from.

I can see that you've had some experiences which led to your beliefs and I respect that a lot more than I would a belief based on "cause this book says so" principles...however, because of that respect for belief based on experience, I think you must respect my LACK of faith based on my lack of any experience to reinforce it. I'm sure that your experiences have you at a point where you believe that love is the greatest power and that it will save you from your demons, your past and your future. I wish you luck with that and respectfully disagree.

From my point of view, we are the most undeserving being of an eternal soul that exists and that needs love because it eases the pain of our self destruction but that love has little 'power' beyond that. If we are all undergoing some cosmic test to prove our worth, then I'd just assume sit out that game. I genuinely believe that animals are innocent and pure and are the real ones deserving of eternal life...anything that would deny them that...doesn't deserve my faith.

look, tempers are going to start to flare, I don't want these threads to close down because they are highly informative.

I wonder how old you are, I will be 39 next week, you are probably in your twenties. Wisdom is knowledge applied. You are right about sitting out that game. I am telling you life is a game, and if you know that, then that is all you need to know, because you feeli it in your heart, that if life is a game then we all lose. So please write me personally, because this tet en tet with two bulls and no matedor is only going to escalate, and I don't want the decorum of the forum to be breeched, for it to be erased. So lets take it outside like gentlement.

PS I have always enjoyed your ingenuitive remarks. I don't always look who writes what, I am merely a conveyor of information, but you make me stop sometimes and look who is this guy. If you are as young as you seem to be, you are way ahead of your time. Not many members do read these threads, because they don't have the curiosity. But, I think your philosophy based upon the respect you give to animals, and that they deserve a soul and we do not is a very beyond high brow aspect to philosophy, when one is guided by their intuitive instinct of self preservation and is not wisened up like I am, believe me, I'd rather be you with ideals, than to be a jaded know it all like me. But you are wrong about love man... that I can assure you.

If you say that animals have no soul and only love you because you feed them and whatever~~~ Then what makes us different from the animals?~~ I mean really ~ do you like someone ~ONLY because they feed you have sex or befriend You?~~ I feel we are not much different then animals ~~ In fact I believe some are Ahelluva lot smarter then us~~ Then you say they have no~~what Conscience~~ Hummm- I just do not believe some of that but that is my opinon~~ Cause One thing My father said to me when My Brother Died ~~ was to stop BAWLING so loud ~~WHY? ~~ because In actcuality I was cring for myself and being selfish, cause he left this world BUT~~ he left me also ~~alone~ so you can interpet it however you want~~ I am not disrepecting your opinons Just giving mine ~~~ after all it is a forum for discussion~ :)

The process of higher love is the exchange of soul, you take her soul into your brain, and vice versa.

A conscience as defined by Sigmund Freud who came up with the concept is having, well actually he came up with the super ego term which is the conscience. The super ego is our awareness of our standing in the community. Animals may have an idea they are either an alpha male or whatever is lower, beta I guess, but they cannot take in the soul of another animal even if they are mates. Yes they remember scents and stuff, but they also can't take in the others soul because they don't have one.

So anyways, higher love is a concept that feeds on energy undetectable by others, because it is not something you can ever really harness to prove it exists, but love based on this ephemeral transient momentary entity may be the strongest physical bondage, for it is something you keep going back towards, because there is something about them, something about their soul that keeps you coming back for more.

I think we we're made from nebulas

You make a good point (99) yet since we CANNOT prove if any one thing or person has a soul or even the true origin ~~ I cannot dismiss the ideal that anything is possible~~ even animals having a soul~ they love and they choose their mates and then protect and kill or die to save them or their offsprings~~ do humans not do the same?~~ so how can any one make a definte anylsis~~ on this we can only spectulate and give our own thoughts/ opinons on any one subject~~ Iam just opimistic on things~ BUT~ point taken :)

Wow what a great, deep, and interesting topic! :D Thanks Vlad

I tend to lean towards the Hindu metaphysical belief on this one. It seems to make the most sense. Our body is just a temporary dwelling for the soul. The soul is endless and goes on forever. It has always been here. When our body dies, our soul lives on and finds a new dwelling.

Another part of me leans toward the whole Kharma theory where if you did good things in this life than your next life you will be rewarded etc.

I think that overall if you are a good person that your soul will be more at peace with the world and everything spiritual, metaphysical, physical, around it.

I definetely do not want to disrespect any one else's beliefs, I simply wanted to state my personal beliefs.

Vampiress25 - I agree with the principle if not necessarily in the specific belief structure. Souls don't necessarily have to have a creation point. They may be as old as the universe itself (or older). There's a creationist belief that if you go back far enough you have to have a creator but that same belief seems to disregard the need for a creator's creator (it's endless if you follow that requirement)...so if a god or goddess could have been eternal, then it seems a very small step to believe that souls themselves may have been eternally here.

Soul is a term rarely used with precise definition in philosophy, religion, or common life. It is generally regarded as descriptive of an entity related to but distinguishable from the body--the spiritual part of human beings that animates their physical existence and survives death.

Primitive religions tend to associate the soul with the vital force in humans and often identify it with particular parts or functions of the body (the heart or kidneys, the breath or pulse). Other religions show traces of such animistic ideas. In Hinduism, the Atman (originally meaning "breath") is the individual factor that is indestructible and that after death is reborn in another existence. But Atman is identified with Brahman, the Source of all things to which the soul ultimately returns when it ceases to have a separate existence. (Buddhism, on the other hand, repudiates the notion of Atman, positing the theory of Anatta, nonself.) Early Jewish thought did not conceive the soul as existing apart from the body except in the shadowy realm of departed spirits (Sheol). Greek and especially Platonic thought divided humans into two parts: body and soul. The soul, often referred to as the psyche, was considered both preexistent and immortal.

i had an experienc ethat was sortof like frankie069's with her son my daughter was three and asked me one day why her name was not kayla i told her we named her carrie after her godmother and she looked at me and said well i used to be named kayla that might just seem like the wishes of a different name for her but her cousin name was kayla and she died 1 hour before my daughter was born i don't know if a soul exsist but i believe there is something and that they are all connected to one another

I wont try to force my beliefs on anyone about the soul or any theory i have. I can only say what i feel to be true to me. The experiences I have had and the feelings that come from my own existence is that all things are made up of energy. It is my belief that the things i experience is due to us all being connected through this energy. If having a soul means having conciousness and self awareness is it possible that the energy evolved and through that the creation of the soul.

One question is, if this is how man evolved from the soul what is our next step? Is this why some of us retain memories from a past life? Maybe so and maybe one day we will evolve into a higher life form than ourselves and thus be reunited with the ones we love in heaven.

i believe that once we are brought into this world whether through reincarnation or whatever that we have a soul and natural instincts... and so forth... when i was very young before anyone talked to me about transferring energy or vampires i was already facsinated by these things. I believed when i was a very young child that i was very unique... but anyway the origin of the soul...

very nice and very tough question...

i think that it is something in human nature that is used again to define things that they don't quite understand

maybe everyone is just different and unique and the soul is just something used to determine by the christians as a means of determining who is going to hell or not...

that is what lucifer and god are fighting over is human souls and where they will end up

so i think that it is just a way for them to define something that they don't understand and that the soul was probably concieved when the universe was...
doesn't the universe and nature have their very own souls about them...?

Yes, very broad question, but good none the less. I personally don't have my own theory on this, but then again I never really thought about it before. Its cool to see other people's stand on it though.

Well Well Well. Another question that can be answered by me. Redeemer. Your one true almighty god. So as I tell you this story. I shall expect you to bow down while I am in your pressence telling you such Important story of where our souls originated.......... Well It was long long long long time ago but after the creation of the rubix cube. I was out the back playing in my little kiddy pool in the middle of my new created season. Summer! When out of nowhere I felt this unknown feeling building up in my hoobersillywilly ( which was later called the gut ). After awhile suddenly from out of nowhere a sound came out of my tillywhatsit ( later called my bum ). Frightened by that sound I turned around to investigate when by my suprise this form of light came out. This light seemed cold and unhappy being exposed to the elements so I decided to create a vessel for this form of light. So I picked up my G.I Joe and said there you go little thingy. And thats how the soul originated. If you would like to hear more on where we came from. Please buy my new up and coming book. The wierd things that come out of my Tillywhatsit.

Genesis chapter 1:7
"And the lord God formed man of the dust of the groundand breathed into his nostrils the breath of liife; and man became a living soul."

Answer your question?

well, I am amazed by the response of the India dude, what faith is that Hindu?

The Atman, the cumilative soul, once you lose your own and it turns into sprirt, and your soul doesn't get reincarnated, and it stays at rest with the hgher understanding of god in the sky. That was amazing, even back when Hindu was made, whenever, I agree with that. My soul must be dead to agree with a philosophy that states if you agreee with a cumulative higher understanding then your soul no longer exists.

I did know that soul turns into spirit, that is what I personally feel, that the soul can be lost, or reclaimed - reincarnated by having new flesh in babies, that is my metaphorical understanding on the subject of soul.

as for biten I believe the poster who has the Avatar of the sword on her back, I just thought it was a guy, I mean how many Valkeryres do yuo see walking around these days? But, do animals have soul? Maybe she is right. I mean just about everything I think before I make my first post changes after I make my post and then try to defend my"perfect" ideas (I think) from the onslaught, and then reading what others have to say, all my definitions change when I am forced to think about ideas, all of them change. So I concede, animals do show high motherly love towards rearing their young, and perhaps even the chimpanzees taking the bugs off of each others back is a form of love, I think the definition of soul, at least a modern one is, if you have the ability to love then you have soul, so there fore animals, at least animals that love have soul.

Humans are only glorified animals, we have a soul because we are platonic and love knowledge, which is the root of the word philosophy. philo means love, a love of knowlegde. Love is a driving force of life, it is whatfor all the other needs on the pyramid of Maslow's basic needs are met, we go about our robotic days to make the mortgage payments to put the final block ontop of the pyramid because the soul yearns for love.

Bats are monogomous, they stay lovers all their lives. That shows at least bats can love, and vampires are most closely related to bats, and since bats can love they have a soul, and if they have a soul, then vampires have a soul too. But that is a topic for another thread.

So to connect the front to the back, I think the origin of the soul is love.

well to be serious for a moment ( which is highly not like me ) but apparently when we die our body weighs .5 of a kilogram lighter. doctors and scientists just cant explaine it.

to further expand on Biten's idea that animals have soul, which has led me to my own conclusion that soul is created by love, love to self first, to create the worthiness of love from another

the whole things about animals having a soul or not is crucial it turns out parallel wise, because, I know I saw a thread before if vampires have a soul, if there wsn't someone shuld stat a thread about vampires having a soul or not... but

I know I am a vampire, and I know I am a vampire because I acted like an animal, but that didn't take away my soul, it gave me a spirit soul that can relate to the Atman collective in the sky, and since I am a vampire, because I am an animal, and animals have a soul, then vampires have a soul, and vampires can love like animals. Someone used the term "anime", as the driving force for someones soul.

Anime is one of the prime movers in philosophical understanding. Believe it or not I don't read much philosophy at all. I failed philosophy in college in 1986. I got an "E" I just have strong feelings, my soul anime animates me, gives me life, beliefs, a sense of self, someone else said, individuality, a separation from the rest in an identity. I am gla dhowever that the departure from the collective unconcious, what all the others think ultimately leads to a union with the spirit soul, or Atman. I don't like being me, I prefer to understand life and be a part of it, that is what the quet for knowledge takes you, it takes you back to the origin of the soul, the one understanding we try to answer the question of all our lives, and when we come to the end of this quest, we arrive at the origin of the soul, by leaving our own stupid ideas behind, and the struggle is over. Resistence is futile. The revolution from the collective soul only leads to conformity. The revolt against conformity leads us to a revolution of conformity. We might think we are being individualistic in everything that we do, but everyhting that we do leads us on this parallel course of development that eventually intersects.

Brahman is the collective soul, I made a typo. But the movie 20 grams was about how we lose 20 grams when we die, some think that 20 grams is our soul escaping. I have other ideas on that too, but I can't state that here, you might want to look up the origin of the band 10cc, which means 10 cubic centermeters, and a cubic centermeter of water weighs 1 gram I think. Water is the base for the metric system. so if we lose 20 grams of something, then we are losing 20 milliliters of something, our soul or "spunk" or 20 cubic centermeters...

which going back to the name of the band 10cc.

But anyways, what I heard, just as nails and hair continue to grow on the deceased, there are some metabolic processes that occur after death, like a chicken will dance around after it's head has been cut off, and in most metabolic processes, there are chemical reactions that occur which cause a chnage from matter into energy and energy escapes, the energy may be soul? Who knows, dead men tell no tales.

I am glad you see and understand where I was coming from(99) and yes it is apicture of a Valkyrie~~ which is a maiden of Odin ~ one who chooses whom will be or not be Slain in battle ~~ETC... That was ok just wanted to let you know I was a woman~:)

from hate we die and into death born more hate and from hate concived new life in hate and again we die

eh, thanks for reviving a topic of soul with a soulless response. As I said up above I thought at the moment that I wrote it that soul might have something to do with love. The power to love, hold love and reflect from it's power.

Hate is highly connected to love though. Only people worthy of love can be hated, as love and hate are equally strong. The people who we feel absolutely nothing for we do not hate or love.

So your hate for soul is based on the love of the concept of soul, it is just that you don't admit that the thing about the person you love is their soul, The fact that they deny you access to their soul makes you hate. If they let you love them, you would see, all the times you wrote the word hate, you could mad lib it and insert the word love and the meanings would almost be simillar or true in their own ways.

Yes love and hate are on very close parallels yet I myself choose not to hate in any sense of the word I feel compassion for those who cannot or choose not to love in any form, Your soul has got to be the strongest part of yourself in my opinon, rather it be heart, brain even energy it is what connects us and if you have no soul I just do not see how you could even exist whether you have a dark soul or good soul I just feel we are connected in some sense and as for hatred , well MYself I do not believe in hate just my feelings, yet I am aware that there are many who do and choose to HATE, but have you really thought of the concept of hatred? My self I do not like or care for things or people yet to hate NO and believe me I have had plenty of reasons to do so yet the concept is wrong and to pity or to have compassion or try to have understanding of that perso or thing etc to me makes more sense and shows myself that I do have a soul and the copassion and intelligence to separate the two ~~ just how I feel

No one really knows what's the origin... the only one that might know the origin of our souls is the one who created them....

yes, hatred has been im my heart for some time... i do not understand why someone would pity another or have compassion for them if we die and they die and no one cares, therefore your time spent feeling for someone in any way would be piontless.... please enlighten my of your opnion... i wish to know so that maybe i can change, every day it hurts, every day i wish for death, every day death strays from me.... who ever reads this if you could tell me your position on the matter then maybe your words will help...

yes, hatred has been im my heart for some time... i do not understand why someone would pity another or have compassion for them if we die and they die and no one cares, therefore your time spent feeling for someone in any way would be piontless.... please enlighten my of your opnion... i wish to know so that maybe i can change, every day it hurts, every day i wish for death, every day death strays from me.... who ever reads this if you could tell me your position on the matter then maybe your words will help...

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