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TheIrishman
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23:27:44 Dec 25 2006
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Ive often wondered why people associate goths with death and vampires, etc. I dress in jeans and a cap mostly and in my business attire when working. Are people that blind or am I missing something. I have seen plenty of people come into the world and those same people leave, but I have kept my open views....someone tell me if Im overlooking something!




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Elissa
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23:38:04 Dec 25 2006
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Everyone gets put into some sort of catagory with how they dress, it doesn't mean that it is the correct catagory but most are only judged on outward appearance in my experience.

i try not to put people into catagories by what they wear but who they are on the inside yet if you just see a person walking down the street and don't talk to them in your mind you place them into some sort of group or catagory.

It is just how we assoiciate things i believe.



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UrielArnauld
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23:59:12 Dec 25 2006
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Its human nature to judge someone or something you dont fully understand.



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TheIrishman
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00:19:50 Dec 26 2006
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People aregue about how things are like this and like that, however they dont open their eyes and souls up to help the issue any....People to need embrace our kind and Im sure things would be alot more clearer for everyone, ya know?



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Jakyna
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00:22:23 Dec 26 2006
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I dont think that because you like vampires, or gothic stuff or death it is right to assume it that one lieks makes a person a sterotype about the likes and dislickes, one can l;ike vmapires but hate death, one can like gothic stuff but despise vampires, its all in the taste of each individual.



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TheIrishman
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00:25:37 Dec 26 2006
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Thank you.....my words exactly! It just nice to be around people that are like you....



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xxxNoDramaxxx
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00:43:09 Dec 26 2006
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I think people will always judge other people by the way they dress. I don't understand why, personally. What is on the outside doesn't really represent what or who a person is. I dress gothic, and so does my daughter. I am into vampirism and she isn't. So, I guess you never can tell.



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TheIrishman
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01:10:51 Dec 26 2006
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thats cool mechelle...thats a perfect example I guess! its a shame that all people dont have the same views...but there again if that were the case the world wouldnt be so unpredictable



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mysticwinds
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01:34:25 Dec 26 2006
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I agree with everyone. I say do what you feel is right, you will never satisfy everyone, and I am not out to try. If people have to judge me on my appearance I call that narrow minded.



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Marlene
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01:51:22 Dec 26 2006
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I am Gothic in my way. I dont dress in black but I feel I am a Goth. Two of my best friends are Gotyhic. They are the coolest people and nicest you would ever want to meet.



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TheIrishman
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02:08:43 Dec 26 2006
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well I thank everyone for their views on the matter!



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Jakyna
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02:31:34 Dec 26 2006
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Dont think to be "goth" you have to dress a certain way, its like saying to be blind you have to wear lback glasses, its only in the eyes of the ones who look at you, youare waht oyu knwo you are regardless of the apperances, in my job I am allowed a certain freedom I could if I want dress all gothic, with the complet gear and it would matter, I even do wear black lipstick and black nail polish at times even my eyes have black eyes shadows, but still why would one juge, I am a good tech and on my other job I do dress in way I cant in public or even at my job so its just a question of common sens (my other job require less clothing but more toys..whip..ect..lol) so anyway it all depends on the situation or locaiton you are at.
Some will juge and even fired oyu (it happen to ppl I know0 some will seek problems and provocaiton them blam you when did not even open your mouth or make a movement of so what ever.
we have to be realistic, ppl like vampires and goth they are fascinated by them but they dont want them in their backyard or family



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ChokeOnThis
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02:36:55 Dec 26 2006
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people just like to stereotype other people, i wear black all the time but my favorite color is pink, i even get stereotyped by name like over the interent just cuz its spelled different people think im a guy.



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darkxangel30
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02:48:09 Dec 26 2006
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PPL are way to judgmental... You do what makes you happy... I found it wouldn’t matter how you dress, look, they just find some other reason to label you... as long as your true to yourself... their the ones with the issues!



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DerMetzgermeister
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02:56:16 Dec 26 2006
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People fear what they dont understand. They think that vampires and witchcraft and Satanism go hand and hand with all the bad and evil things in this world, so when something comes along that they dont comprehend they automatically shove it into the "Bad and Evil" category.



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birra
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03:06:17 Dec 26 2006
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Many people look at anything that is different than their own values and beliefs to be wrong, or opposite of what they believe.

Like the myth perpetrated through media propoganda throughout the cold war that Soviets were godless, emotionless people who's only goal was world domination... when really, they're no different than anyone else.

Just the way it is.

If you want to enact change - don't be that way, and teach your children to not be that way...



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midniteangel
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03:10:24 Dec 26 2006
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all people like to judge and put others into categories that the feel that they fit in.....i think it is a natural way of thinking for most people.
sterotyping is a big downfall of the human nature.



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darkdruidmaster01
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03:18:42 Dec 26 2006
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It is human nature to judge that which they do not know, even more so to destroy or malign and categorize that which they do not understand



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andaluz
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03:29:07 Dec 26 2006
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I'm glad that we recognize that all people judge others. The problem most people have with those who are different and don't is that they are afraid of what they don't understand. That has been echoed a lot here and I'm glad of it. People should judge others on their character. I do not just hang with anyone with piercings and tats dressed in black. That does NOT make the person.



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LadyDarla
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03:42:15 Dec 26 2006
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i say because people are full of bullshit and drama... have nothing better to do than to judge others... when their own life is fucked up... they need to fine something to do and something to talk about... wicked kisses and blessed be, darla...



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imthenewcancer2006
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03:42:58 Dec 26 2006
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society has been categorizing people ever since society was created. it's just something that's been categorizes as this. .. goth= wearing black all the time, satan worshippers, and hating everyone. but that's not true and no one will truly understand that until they ignore society and learn with an open mind



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Blacksheep1
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03:45:05 Dec 26 2006
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Here is a quote out of one of the books I have.

When you're eighteen, you worry about what everybody is thinking of you.

When you're fourty, you don't give a damn about what anybody thinks about you.

When you're sixty, you realize nobody's been thinking about you at all.

It is for the simple fact people that are shallow thinkers will label someone with out knowing anything.

Everyone who works or knows me. Knows I am in the darker things of life. Do I worry about what they think? no... Do they know I enjoy my life and the path I walk? Yes ...

I sometimes wonder do I blend in as the normal or do I stand out. Every now and then I get a reminder that I am not one of the normal, boring, average go by day after day person.

So IMHO for people who label people before they get to know somone is just shallow and need to come to terms with something within their own self.



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FrgttnFllnAngl
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04:40:05 Dec 26 2006
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People are ignorant and judgmental, however, in their defense it's the brain natural defense to be wary of those whom it deems dangerous.
But, yeah, people always judge too quickly and the movies don't help when they protray us.



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AntiEveryone
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04:45:56 Dec 26 2006
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I will go ahead and state the obvious here.

It is human nature to make assumptions based on looks, sadly. It can actually come in handy, or at least once did in our past. How were we to tell if something was dangerous?? it's crude and primitive but none the less, that is the way a lot of people's brains are hardwired to be.



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SatinMist
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05:11:17 Dec 26 2006
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Unfortunately in todays' society their is a picture of how a person should be, act or look. And sadly they are judged accordingly. We are who we are and that should be good enough.
I may not look "goth"..but I am if you desire to place a label. I don't like labels and I don't use them. I respect all people as individuals. We should celebrate in the diversity. Not judge or label or presume one is evil because they believe differently, or is different.



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FortunateFool
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05:36:40 Dec 26 2006
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As I'm sure many people have tried to make this point, there are two sides to everything. First off, you are judged by others (who have no right to do so) by your appearance. Every appearance has a name to it, Prep, Goth, Emo, Scene, etc... Secondly, each individual has some sort of category they sum themselves up under. Take me for example. Yes, I dress like what many would call a "prep" but I would consider myself more of a "punk."



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Cyan
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06:04:28 Dec 26 2006
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Stereotypes are inherently incorrect, typically applying false logic. i.e. (for the uninitiated), “All the cats I have seen are black, therefore all cat are black.” Though classification of animals, people, things & situations is an appropriate survival technique, not being able to identify things that can harm you will lead to unhappy outcomes. *grin*
Living things use visual clues to identify their nature. Brightly colored insects tend to be poison and are bright as a warning. A dog’s hair stands up on his back to show aggression. Being able to read these signs mean you don’t have to figure out each thing you come across.
If you are not getting the responses you are looking for perhaps you should examine the signals you are sending.



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MisfitChick423
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07:09:42 Dec 26 2006
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I think that people often associate stereotypes because it's what society has ingrained into the minds for so long. I don't think that you have overlooked anything, only that you care not to go by stereotypes


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VmprBlood1
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07:46:07 Dec 26 2006
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Because people judge before learning about them...and thats human nature



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XAliceHasAHeartbreak
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08:01:29 Dec 26 2006
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They do so because, as has been said, people judge before anything else. They just sort of... Do. It's second nature to humans. And I really don't want to hear any of that 'Well, -I- don't judge', because EVERYONE does.
I even associate goth with that sometimes because that is the stereotype. Such as emo is cutting wrists and certain hair, or preps pink and frilly things.
It's just... us.



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DerMetzgermeister
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08:40:15 Dec 26 2006
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If the rest of the world was as open minded and accepting as the people on this site, there would be no war, no bigotry, no murder, no bullshit, and most importantly no reason to ever ask questions like this.

Thats my perfect world.



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andaluz
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13:41:32 Dec 26 2006
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Cyan, I admit we do have to watch what we put out in oder not to be stereotyped as a threat. I admit I do not look like most educators I know. I don't have a head of hair because I shave it. (I would otherwise) Most of my fellow teacher and professors don't have holes in their ears as I do. It's funny though, besides turning a few eyebrows at first, people who we really want to know me or even work with me look past the outside.

I admit I'm at the only progressive high school in town. (Arts and Academic Magnet School) and at the University no one cares.
The point of this is I could classify most if not all of my students but I don't. We should practice what we preach about stereotyping.

I think you should be yourself. If you look like and treat people like a hard ass, well duh, how will others react? Maybe that is what you want. That's okay too. If not there will always be ignorant people that judge on face value(or even color, I do live in the south), but I can chose not to let that get me all worked up.



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ZorayaAurora
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14:18:36 Dec 26 2006
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I learned along time ago that no matter how you dressed, looked, or appeared doesn't matter to most. They will judge you anyway they see fit to them. I live in a small town. I like vampires, dress sometimes gothic, sometimes fancy, mostly I dress like I'm going to the gym(I happen to be a fitness trainer) and I still get judged for my appearance. If a person would take the time to get to know someone instead of quickly labeling them, they'd find a genuine down to earth person, a good heart, and an even better soul but in today's day and age, people are quick to drop labels over those they don't understand or even fear, it's sad.



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NocturnisOrchid
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14:36:01 Dec 26 2006
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I think mostly cause it's easier to lable someone other than really, really look to see what that person's is all about.And still people think of vampires as one big lump of society, that we are all alike.And that we are wear capes and wear makeup as if going to a Cure concert*grins* My job in the hospital does not allow me dress the way i choose, but isn't that the way with most jobs.We must assimilate to some extent to get and keep jobs.



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Kytrin
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15:45:37 Dec 26 2006
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or be yourself and find a job that fits you..
quit worrying about what others think..geeze



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NocturnisOrchid
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15:56:06 Dec 26 2006
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my friend, i frankly dont give a bloody damn what others think. but i do like to eat and pay bills..and since i am in my 5th year of uni..i think it wise to be responsible and not always get what i want as far as dress etc.



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rudefuckindoll
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16:02:04 Dec 26 2006
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The curse of the subcultures:
Goths: Have always been looked upon as those that are depressed, lonely and like it, moody, rude, impolite, dangerous.
At the time this subculture grew, it was different to anything popular society had seen and due to it's 'dark' nature, people idiotically associated it with all things negative, so..to continue to provoke such reactions, the goths adopted this fake generalisation just so they could carry on being different...It's the same with 'EMO' these days, people associate them with razorblade-esque suicidal thoughts and mopey music.
As for Vampires, as the only times I've ever ready, news-wise about vampires, it's always connected to murder, which is such a pity to be fair. It's just those that manage to paint a certain picture, albeit wrong, to the public, are the ones that cast the shadow on the rest of us.
Lame as it is, such is life and such is society.



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kat1327
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16:10:23 Dec 26 2006
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Peoplehave views on things they believe are normal and anything outside of that they see as bad. Also most people associate black with something bad like funerals



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birra
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16:14:26 Dec 26 2006
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Ok, branching off into stereotypes and stereotyping....

...the "all cats are black" example.. kind of silly, but I understand the poster's point. However, a stereotype is simply a standardized mental picture of something... it's over-simplified and obviously not an all-inclusive concept by any means, but stereotypes exist due to the fact there is truth to them.

If the only cats a person ever saw were black, or the vast majority they ever saw were black when someone says "cat" that person is going to conjure, in their mind, the image of a black cat.... because, it's what they know best about cats.

Society stereotypes based on common perceptions... I won't go into the insulting stereotypes that have accumulated over the centuries... but right or wrong to each individual, they exist due to experience.



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TegoSanguisitim
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16:30:07 Dec 26 2006
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The goth subculture is a contemporary subculture prevalent in many countries. It began in the United Kingdom during the late 1970s to early 1980s in the gothic rock scene, an offshoot of the post-punk genre. The goth subculture has survived much longer than others of the same era. Its imagery and cultural proclivities indicate influences from nineteenth century Gothic literature, mainly through horror movies.

The goth subculture has associated gothic tastes in music and fashion. Gothic music encompasses a number of different styles. Common to all is a tendency towards a “dark” sound and outlook. Styles of dress within the subculture range from death rock, punk, androgynous, some Renaissance and Victorian style clothes, or combinations of the above, most often with black attire, makeup and hair
The Goths (Gothic: Gutans) were an East Germanic tribe who according to their own traditions left Scandinavia, settled close to the Vistula mouth (in present day Poland), and from the 2nd century settled Scythia, Dacia and Pannonia. In the 3rd and 4th centuries, they harried the Byzantine Empire and later adopted Arianism. In the 5th and 6th centuries, dividing into the Visigoths and the Ostrogoths, they established powerful follower-states of the Roman Empire in Iberia and Italy.

The only source for early Gothic history is Jordanes' Getica (published 551), a condensation of the lost twelve-volume history of the Goths written in Italy by Cassiodorus around 530. Jordanes may not even have had the work at hand to consult from, and this early information should be treated with caution. Cassiodorus was well placed to write of Goths, for he was an essential minister of Theodoric the Great, who apparently had heard some of the Gothic songs that told of their traditional origins. Another source is Procopius' de bello gothico, describing the Gothic War of AD 535-552.

According to Jordanes, the Goths originated in Scandinavia (Scandza). Their more specific place of origin was possibly Gotland or Götaland in present day Sweden. They would have become separated from related tribes, the Gutar (Gotlanders) and the Götar (Geats, referred to as Gautigoths and Ostrogoths by Jordanes), who are sometimes included in the term Goths[1] in about the 1st century (but the Gutasaga leaves open the possibility of prolonged contact). They migrated south-east along the Vistula during the 2nd century (Jordanes' Gothiscandza; see Wielbark culture), settling in Scythia, which they called Oium "waterlands", from the 2nd century (see Chernyakhov culture). According to legendary accounts, the capital of this kingdom was Árheimar, at the Dniepr.

One of the floor mosaics excavated at the Great Palace of Constantinople and dated to the reign of Justinian I. It is presumed to represent a conquered Gothic king.Though many of the fighting nomads who followed them were to prove more bloody, the Goths were feared because the captives they took in battle were sacrificed to their god of war, Tyz,[2] and the captured arms hung in trees as a token-offering. Their kings and priests came from a separate aristocracy[3] and their mythic kings of ancient times were honored as gods.

In the 3rd century, the Goths split into two groups, the Tervingi or Visigoths ("West Goths"), and the Greuthungi or Ostrogoths ("East Goths"). The Visigoths launched one of the first major "barbarian" invasions of the Roman Empire from 263, sacking Byzantium in 267.[4] A year later, they suffered a devastating defeat at the Battle of Naissus and were driven back across the Danube River by 271. This group then settled north of the Danube and established an independent kingdom centered on the abandoned Roman province of Dacia.

Both the Ostrogoths and Visigoths became heavily Romanized during the 4th century by the influence of trade with the Byzantines, and by their membership in a military covenant centered in Byzantium to assist each other militarily. They converted to Arianism during this time. Hun domination of the Ostrogoth kingdom began in the 370s, and under pressure of the Huns, Visigothic king Fritigern in 376 asked Valens (then Emperor of Eastern Rome) to be allowed to settle with his people on the south bank of the Danube. Valens permitted this, and even helped the Goths cross the river, probably at the fortress of Durostorum, but following a famine the Gothic War (377–382) erupted, and Valens was killed at the Battle of Adrianople.

The Visigoths under Alaric I sacked Rome in 410. Honorius granted the Visigoths Aquitania, where they defeated the Vandals and by 475 ruled most of the Iberian peninsula.

The Ostrogoths in the meantime freed themselves of government of the Huns following the Battle of Nedao in 454. At the behest of emperor Zeno, Theoderic the Great from 488 conquered all of Italy. The Goths were briefly reunited under one crown in the early sixth century under Theodoric the Great, who became regent of the Visigothic kingdom following the death of Alaric II at the Battle of Vouillé in 507. Procopius, writing at this time, interpreted the name Visigoth to mean "western Goths", and the name Ostrogoth as "eastern Goth" which corresponded to the current distribution of the Gothic realms.

The Ostrogothic kingdom persisted until 553 under Teia, when Italy briefly fell back under Byzantine control, until the conquest of the Langobards in 568. The Visigothic kingdom lasted longer, until 711 under Roderic, when it had to yield to the Umayyad invasion of Andalusia.

Wikipedia.org



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LovesEternalDeath
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17:00:02 Dec 26 2006
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I have that same problem. Occasionally I wear black, and dress gothy, but for the most part I wear jeans and tee shirts or dress slacks and a blouse. My dad still says that because I'm goth, I am too into the "dark side of life". I am happy, and I like my views. I like the fact that I am a vampire. I am not obsessed w/ death.



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Trajanus
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17:04:58 Dec 26 2006
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Lovely post about the history. I think it illustrates the lack of connection between today's 'goths' and the Goths of yore.



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KittyDarkness
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17:19:14 Dec 26 2006
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Because today's society is jaded.



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NocturnisOrchid
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17:35:47 Dec 26 2006
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Birra, nice post indeed,thank u



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BunneyMVP
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19:14:14 Dec 26 2006
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I think some people jugde others because they cant coup with their own problems so they try to jugde others so that people wont notice there own flaws



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hot4blood
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19:15:14 Dec 26 2006
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I've stop questioning people on what they think, they are going to think what they want to. Just be who u are and just let those u trust close, so that you don't feel judged.



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Trajanus
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20:27:49 Dec 26 2006
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How others judge me is more often an indication of them and their idiosyncrasies than it is of me. People judge out of their own weaknesses, baggage and blindness.



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RaiMarie
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21:04:20 Dec 26 2006
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lol...thats a question i should ask my father... one of my favorite colors is black..so i look good in dark colors...wats the big deal? my grandmother even calls me her dark beauty for cryin out loud. ppl are just afraid of change and things that are different. i learned not to pay them any mind.....



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NocturnisOrchid
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00:18:08 Dec 27 2006
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EXACTLY Bunny, well said



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Brokenaxe13fallen
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00:20:12 Dec 27 2006
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well, everyone has said what i want to say. But it is all true because i have been judged by the way that i think.



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Vashti
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01:13:07 Dec 27 2006
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Why judge people by their appearances? Because it makes sense. I judge books by their covers, literally. I see the artwork, I read the back, I make my decision. That's what the cover is there for. I don't have the time to sit down and read every single book I see on the off chance that the cover might be misleading. In real life terms, when I see people dressed a certain way, I evaluate them on that. Nine out of ten times I am right. That means I'm wrong about a few hundred people a day, but the compared to the people I'm right about, that's nothing. Just looking at some of the profiles on this site will tell you that a lot of these stereotypes are right. A lot of the people here are goths, emos, and vampire lovers, and also happen to be obsessed with death, threaten to kill people regularly, and cut themselves. Of course that's not everyone. Obviously. But there are a lot of them. The fact is, you dress the way you do to convey a certain message. You know how people are going to see it. You do it anyway. And you judge people right back. Subconsciously sometimes. But I don't think any of you is going to look at the smarmy guy in the trench coat, standing in an alley at 3 o'clock in the morning and say, "Sure, I'd love to follow you in there! We can get to know each other better." Sometimes appearances aren't deceiving at all. Sometimes they're exactly right. It just sucks when you're the exception.



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sacredDefiance
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01:20:15 Dec 27 2006
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People group Goths in with Vampires and such because vampires have been made to look like goths and vice versa.


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lifeinmotion
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02:15:58 Dec 27 2006
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Most people are afraid of what they do not understand and to earmark it with a malty-use tag makes them feel they are in control of it all. It is just human nature to need to be in control. Fear of the new or strange frightens people and most people need normalcy to feel safe.



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darkxangel30
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03:21:25 Dec 27 2006
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ya but what are they controling really?
I ware what I want what fits my mood... I always have... I quite long ago trying to please anyone... I ware black red what ever... I have piercing... I like them... you dont like them umm then dont look at me lol ppl will find a reason not to like you to judge you... But the time will come they will be judged and then they will get a taste of what they have dont to others... karms a B**** And that how I see it and live with it. let them judge... who are they? NO ONE.



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DeathKnightShimitar
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04:14:13 Dec 27 2006
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Mostly because I think it is the way movies plays them....poeple then take it to heart...sux...but that is the way it is.



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SatinMist
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04:27:45 Dec 27 2006
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movies, media..a tragedy. Some are just trying to find their way and get stuck in the stereotyping.



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drowndeathwithapill
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08:20:01 Dec 27 2006
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the entire world unfortinatly try to force stero types on us ita wrong but it happens



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Kglitterous
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12:55:05 Dec 27 2006
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The first part of being succesful in any endevour is to act successful. Point being that this puts people into groups. If you want to look like a successful businessman you wear a good business suit. If you want to look avant guard... you dress avant guard... bohemian, gothic, hooker, whatever. If you dress like a sloppy Chachi... your gonna give the impression you are a sloppy Chachi...

vampyrs/mummies/werewolves and weird science are more victorian in style

Gargoyles are more gothic... anything associated with emulating 13-14th century
is often generalized as gothic;
but people are stupid, and easily confused.


I posit that if people are confused about who you are... then you are probably being pretty wishy washy about what you are trying to be. Style equals effort... if you have put no effort into your image... you have no style. You are not what you are on the inside that counts... it's what you do.

Other people have no affect on what you do... they can only affect their perception of you... which obviously has no real affect on you... unless of course you rely on others to tell you how much you are worth instead of your own actions.


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VivaVendetta
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14:59:13 Dec 27 2006
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well every one gets put in some sort of a box in lif i guess its just easyer to put anything like goths and vamps and such in the same box save time



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GothicFairey
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15:39:42 Dec 27 2006
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Thats almost like why people judge people by anything. It's just human nature



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artemka
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15:53:42 Dec 27 2006
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I think people judge others by their appearance and the experience that they have had of people with that appearance.

If a person sees a uniformed policeman, they will either assume that officer is a helpful guardian or a hateful swine, depending on what they have experienced (or been told) of police officers in the past.

Apperance has to be the starting point of what people think. It is only when someone makes the effort, or is forced, to actually get to know the person that they realise that what they had assumed may not apply to everyone just because they share an appearance.

Of course, it works the other way round - some people adopt the 'uniform' because it suits what they think is the behaviour that goes with it.

I hope that makes sense



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Natalia
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16:47:23 Dec 27 2006
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You know that ppl are so judgemental. Think about some of us on here, we are definitely judged by others. I dress gothic and live the life, but some ppl doubt me because I may dress differently on another occasion. I have kids, I have to do that sometimes!lol

Don't woory about other ppl's bullsh*t, it's not worth it. Just think, some ppl are probably not as knowledgeable about certain things and let other ppl change their views.

Don't forget, there are others out there who make us look bad. I may have had thoughts about hurting someone, or death, but i don't think I would actually go out there and do it because it seems cool and it is how we are supposed to be. Be as you want to be luv.



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VampyreHeart
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16:47:46 Dec 27 2006
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Most all/if not all of us r judged by what we look like, what we say, what we believe in...as if the world wants to catagorize each of us. People, as in the past, often fear what they do not understand and as of now the vampyre society is one of the most misunderstood.



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Kglitterous
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01:14:56 Dec 28 2006
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You don't have to dress how you act... but it is the easiest way to put thought into action. You have to put a whole lot more effort into puttnig your thoughts into actions if you want to BE who you think you are without the clothes. Look at all those serrial killers out there that look perfectly normal.

It is insufficient to think a certain way and not follow through with it in action. The Exec chef doesn't have to look like a chef if everyone knows that that is who he is within 5 minutes of seeing him.

If you think you're a romantic... and don't act like it... you are a poseur. You have to put thought into action. If you do not put sufficient effort into your thought... it is no wonder that you get lumped in with everyone else.

I doubt that my thoughts are sufficiently illustrated here; due both to my inefficiency to express my thoughts, and also that the nature of origional sin is to judge everything... to not see things for what they are.

*laughs*



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Joli
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01:32:03 Dec 28 2006
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Well, because we have eyes as our primary sense of others. First we see...then that image finds a cozy file in the brain. That's how it works. Brains categorize, sort, and file. If you want to know why so many people file goths there, go take a look at goth clubs.

We all do it. The danger is in never re-accessing the files and adding new information and cross-referencing.
When I think "goth" a certain image comes to mind, just like when I think "mammal." In fact, I stick the goths in that file, too. Except for the reptiles ;)



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PoisonIvy17
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05:16:19 Dec 28 2006
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i don't see why people associate these things together either. the person that sat next to you on the bus or the person in the suit and tie you saw going to wall street could be a vampire. being a vampire does not necessarily mean you are (un)dead either. all of the undead vampires are gone or there are very few left today. the rest of us are just living vampires or vampire life stylers. i wish people wouldn't be so ignorant as to lump all of these things together.



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satanicvampyre
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05:24:34 Dec 28 2006
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humans r that blind



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lycan1200
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05:27:52 Dec 28 2006
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i know exactly. how you feel.. i myself am often put int ocertain categories. and realize that most humans are jus tstupid and scared of wha tthey dont understand or jealous of..



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Rayden
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06:00:37 Dec 28 2006
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Asit has been said before me it is simply human nature. People dont like to make things complecated that way they can have atleast somemeasurement that rthey now something.



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06:23:07 Dec 28 2006
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Don't discount the benefits of stereotypes. There is merit to the idea that like-minded individuals will act and dress in similar manners. When they socialize typically they will associate with people who either like similar things or understand, potentially sympathise with their actions.

So stereotypes do have some merit in that it groups together people of similar tastes and ideals. Are they all the same? No. This does not change that these clicks if you would, are noticed by others outside of the scene and can be used for people of similar taste, without the outward signs to find those they prefer to associate with.

Dress and actions are just two ways that people in subcultures find other of like minds.



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Kglitterous
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06:31:36 Dec 28 2006
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Being a vampire has nothing to do with being stereotyped. It's like saying that you are stereotyped because you snore.



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06:35:29 Dec 28 2006
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Trust me I DO stereotype those that snore... and I actively discriminate against letting them in my sleeping chambers.

Seriously though I think that the confusion with vampires is from folk lore and people wishing to make themselves more. Creating their own personal ideals of magic to brighten otherwise mundane lives.



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07:29:55 Dec 28 2006
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Even in simplified terms it is still the same...black is seen as evil and white is seen as good...therefore those of us who choose to wear black are automatically labelled regardless.



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BloodyVampirekiss
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07:34:24 Dec 28 2006
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some people dont understand thats all.. we got to face that people have right to there opinon on what they were borught up with. I was brought up racists family but i am not racists.. so sometimes it works out follow your heart.



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Kglitterous
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09:15:58 Dec 28 2006
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It seams to me that archetypes (Jung)would be a better way of profiling.

I choose the mushroom man archetype... I am gonna wear a floppy hat and a skirt held up with a jute cord... just so that everyone knows what archetype I am.
*chuckles*

I hope that nobody thinks I am doing cosplay.
*laughs*



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Nightprowler666
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10:08:01 Dec 28 2006
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Today's society is too quick to judge and criticise something they either can't or refuse to understand if it doesn't fit into what they consider 'normal'. Because we are different, either in our views, morals, beliefs and even in the way we dress society automatically assumes we are "Evil". I dress how I feel comfortable and not how I think society thinks I should dress. If people have a problem with this then let them deal with it as inside I am content and let their small and narrowmindedness worry about it.



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ryet666
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14:25:39 Dec 28 2006
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People's ignorance leads them to pre-judge others, and when we don't normally fit into their version of the "norm" they tend to ostracize us as well as others. I too can not dress goth at work, well I usually wear somethings that may hint at it, but it's amazing how people's opinions can change when your friends stop by work to see you!



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VivaVendetta
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14:43:23 Dec 28 2006
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well people will be people and i guess putting things that are strange to them in a box makes them feel just that little bit safer and abel to clas themselfs as normal



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SteelTalons
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15:25:06 Dec 28 2006
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Irishman, my fiance is pretty much like you in that he dresses in jeans and nice shirts or dressier when he's working, yet he is a Witch as well as a Vampire. The only clue he gives as to who he is would be his jewelry. He doesnt dress this way to hide who he is, but because those clothes are comfortable! :) The advantage is, when we meet new people..they have a chance to get to know us before they judge who we are, because they don't automatically fear us negatively based on first impressions. It's just a sad but true reality of human nature I suppose.



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meeper
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19:02:04 Dec 28 2006
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People have a tendency to compartmentalize the world around them. The process lends to a short cut around obtaining knowledge. However short cuts do not always prove the best way to get to know some one because very few people actually fit the stereotype to a "t"



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La6Muerte66
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19:14:08 Dec 28 2006
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Assigning a label to people based on their clothing is what I consider to be high school bullshit, but loads of people in the real world do it too. If it doesn't fit their perfect world, it has to be labeled, categorized, and shunned. Tragic, really...



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FelixFelix
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19:16:30 Dec 28 2006
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As much as I agree that stereotyping is an act of laziness, there are some truths to the stereotypes within a subculture or 'scene'.

Of course we are all individuals and should be treated as such, but it is fallacy to think that similar interests and motives aren't at least partially responsible for people grouping together in the same subculture.

The gothic music, and fashion is a product of both the punk movement in the late 70s as well as an 'homage' to horror fiction and gothic literature and times. Those that dress in the fashion of Lord Byron whilst listening to "The Sky's Gone Out" by Bauhaus will likely get a kick out of the collective works of Edgar Allen Poe and enjoy seeing movies about vampires. A scene is so named because there are visible or at least notable similarities of those within it.

While I believe individuality is key is assessing our self worth, it is no great crime to have similar interests and tastes as those around us who have found our company and creativity desireable.



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CLIX
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19:19:15 Dec 28 2006
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Isn't it strange that how we humans are? That what we wear or the color we dye our hair can actually make someone scared or comfortable......We would step aside and probably avoid anyone that dressed so differently. Yet we would comfortably go to someone that looks "normal".....well "Ted Bundy" dressed very fashionable and was the nice guy next door (serial killer) This is just to say you never know when you place judgment on people because of the way they dress, you may really never know who you are trusting just because of that.



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La6Muerte66
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19:28:42 Dec 28 2006
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Dahmer comes to mind as well. The most dangerous people are often the ones who dress like everyone else, yet people still like to judge by appearance. Funny...



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Joli
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19:40:48 Dec 28 2006
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Clix, that was a very good point. "Normally dressed doesn't equate with "good."

I rode with a motorcycle club for a while in my nifty little life. We wore "colors" displayed on denim vests that held the symbol of the club and your name or nickname. Also in the regalia were the typical chaps, jackets, tats, boots, etc...

I remember doing a charity ride for MS...just a bunch of bikers riding for a good cause. The end of the ride was a state park and when we pulled in, lovely little moms in their lovely mom uniforms were pulling their kids away from us and looking at us like we were serial killers.

In truth, we were the good guys.



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FelixFelix
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19:54:31 Dec 28 2006
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I think that goes a bit deeper into individuality than I was implying. I agree that when it comes down to it, we are all diverse and one can hardly make complete assessments of a persons character by their clothes or musical tastes.

However, bikers do dress like bikers and one would hardly take seriously a biker gang that dressed like clowns or furries. So while your example proves that bikers aren't necessarily evil, they are typically 'tough' or saying they are.

My point is that there is something in the superficial stylings and trappings that we adopt. We ARE in fact trying to make a statement when we don the garb of a subculture. It may not and most likely doesn't not speak to our inner most nature but it DOES say something (whether intentional or not.)



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FelixFelix
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19:59:21 Dec 28 2006
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The Irishman said: Ive often wondered why people associate goths with death and vampires, etc. I dress in jeans and a cap mostly and in my business attire when working.

And yet there is ample evidence on this site alone that many many goths have an interest in vampires and death. It's not that someone has to be a goth to be interested in those things (as your example proves) but simple observation can tell us that many goths (more so than other subcultures) have that interest and are therefore associated with it.



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Joli
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20:37:35 Dec 28 2006
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...and isn't it just slightly amusing that I said "club" and you said "gang?" :)



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FelixFelix
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20:39:32 Dec 28 2006
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But when I say "gang" I mean it in the nicest way possible lol



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Joli
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20:59:44 Dec 28 2006
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Oh, but of course :)



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FelixFelix
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21:08:13 Dec 28 2006
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I tend to hold gangs in higher regard than clubs hehe.

Besides, couldn't one say that the original bike clubs used the term club so the cops would go easier on them? I mean it's not like the Hells Angels or the Boozefighters were playing canasta or bridge together.



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CLIX
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21:25:32 Dec 28 2006
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Without getting into too much detail about my personal life I have had quite a variety of friends, I have been in the back of bikes and I have hung out with ...I won't say "gangs" but other clicks. I have tats and peircings and I change the color of my hair whenever I feel like it. I would say I'm not afraid of much and somewhat of a rebel. Would you think that I do private homehealth care for terminally ill children? Well that's what I do best. And I love taking care of people. *smiles*



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Joli
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21:30:23 Dec 28 2006
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And I'm the Executive Director of a non-profit emergency center :)

Pretty cool how far off base perceptions can take people :)



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CLIX
CLIX

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21:41:14 Dec 28 2006
Read 776 times

Joli ...yes it's pretty wild.....but there are still some people who don't put judgement on the way someone looks or dresses. Are we all not a bit judgemental? Is it not true sometimes we won't even give someone a second look because of what we as individuals perceive as ugly or too this or too that?



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FelixFelix
FelixFelix
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21:43:54 Dec 28 2006
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and I'm...

...not either or those heheh.

But it does reinforce the principle that even though clothes and music can tell you a little about each other and sometimes a lot about each other, it likely doesn't tell you the depth of a person's character.



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DarkVampyricPrincess
DarkVampyricPrincess
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22:44:30 Dec 28 2006
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everyone no matter how open minded you are judges on something unfortunately you probably are missing what most...what i like to call humans have, they judge on everything clothes makeup accessories, EVERYTHING!
dont know what to tell ya other than ignor the stupid people and find more people like u...mostlilkely on this site that are as open minded for more discussion...



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DarkVampyricPrincess
DarkVampyricPrincess
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22:49:17 Dec 28 2006
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ok so i forgot to put:
i think the media probably gets stuff like goth-death-vampires all put in the same catagory, maybe even religiion...
in my family i mentioned wicca....the words that came out of all of their mouths was evil and satan
maybe if people used their own minds instead of trying to use everyone elses views to judge people they'd have to just get to know everyone before they said
hey look a goth
or they think they're a vampire
or anything after one or not even one word is mentioned from the person the others dont quite understand
i assume the most misconceptions come from black...because people wear it to funerals everyone tends to think that black is for death and such things
they forget people like to wear different things and study different things because we are individuals



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FelixFelix
FelixFelix
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22:49:52 Dec 28 2006
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I'm not harping on you but it's interesting that we say a great way to promote individuality is to hang out with people who are more like you ;)



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DarkVampyricPrincess
DarkVampyricPrincess
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Posts: 25
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22:50:14 Dec 28 2006
Read 763 times

ok so i forgot to put:
i think the media probably gets stuff like goth-death-vampires all put in the same catagory, maybe even religiion...
in my family i mentioned wicca....the words that came out of all of their mouths was evil and satan
maybe if people used their own minds instead of trying to use everyone elses views to judge people they'd have to just get to know everyone before they said
hey look a goth
or they think they're a vampire
or anything after one or not even one word is mentioned from the person the others dont quite understand
i assume the most misconceptions come from black...because people wear it to funerals everyone tends to think that black is for death and such things
they forget people like to wear different things and study different things because we are individuals



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FelixFelix
FelixFelix
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Vampire Rave member for 20 years.
23:21:26 Dec 28 2006
Read 753 times

I love the goth scene. I know it's based superficially on dark romanticism and I have no problem with that. I have tattoos that show occult, death, skulls and Bela Lugosi...Likely, someone will think I have a thing for this kind of imagery...and guess what? I do.

My own artwork and song lyrics were often about death or somehow escaping it and included vampire imagery...again...the circle becomes smaller. The white face and fangs that many choose to adopt... I understand. We will be pigeon holed and I'm sorry...who cares. In a sub-culture or underground scene, you will be understood by those in it with you ...and constantly misunderstood or 'over' read by those outside said subculture.

I don't know that I want everyone to have me pegged exactly for who I am. I'm not out to be 'understood' by the masses. I don't expect to ever be treated fairly by a cop...again I don't care.

Those with the desire or motivation to learn more about me will come to know that I am much more than the sum of my imagery. Those who don't can go screw.



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VR System
VR System

No Longer Registered
23:21:26 Dec 28 2006
Read 753 times

This thread has been automatically closed for length.



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• • • • THIS THREAD IS CLOSED • • • •
•  Closed by VR System on Dec 28 2006  •

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