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Ok, I have been here for several months,and in the OVC(online vampire community) for over 10 years.Why is it, around 85% of the profiles start out with either"fuck you or I am gonna kick your ass, or I am a hot whore"? And then go on to say how"totally awsome and sweet" this person..mmmmm. is it just me or is the a major contradiction.
Where does it say that being goth or vampire or both means hate to all living things! If thats what some of these people think..they are TOTALLY clueless.I do not understand why anyone would want to advertise they are a whore or whatever the case may be.And that they possess so scarey power to hurt people..OHHHHHH COME ON!

Secondly if these people hate this place and life..then why bother writing to us here?So much of the writing is about hate, and more hate and the fact that they are alone and nobody will help them..
Call me crazy here, but I am not gonna go running to help someone who threatens the reader and says they hate the entire universe.Somehow that is not at all condusive to a learning atmosphere*grins*
Cancer and the other mods.go to a great deal of trouble to make VR a place for help and learning...tell me why all the hate...

Have a read of the " BACK IN THE DAY " forum thread ,started by Lyssa, in Gen. Disc.

My best guess is perhaps they find some sort of satisfaction in making a cliche of themselves.

*chuckles*

I suppose the scariest thing one could post is something to the effect of taking pride in a venereal disease.

I think it is also a protection of some sort. "Let me show them how tough I am and I won't get hurt."

Unfortunately, its hard to get past a first impression and that is what the profiles on here are....a first impression. Truthfully, I think the ones that start their profiles with fuck you or don't mess with me.....are the ones lacking in social graces and just want to be noticed for being antisocial. oh well. Their loss.

Chordewa, well said.Truly social grace and charm have fallen by the wayside.There is much more strength to being loving and friendly than simply hating.It takes more heart and more guts to give, then simply see how many times one can put"fuck" in a sentence.Kinda sad really, no sense of style nor air of grace.

Ahh but that is simple maturity and intelligence. Being able to express yourself without using fuck every other word shows that. I have seen other profiles on here, that are long and involved but they come away with a sense of grace, yet still sending the message, "Don't mess with me."

It does act as a great identifier to me, though. I immediately know that this will be a person I won't be putting on a friend list or investing time talking with.

It's the red flag indicator of immaturity.

I agree that u should read the back in the day post. i think that has something to do with it as well as people wanting attention. (of any sort)

Exactly Jolie,

It is a great way to tell why someone is really here, which makes them easy to avoid if they are not what you are looking to find.

To everyone else- remember I agree postings will be deleted. Contribute to the discussion or do not post. Thanks.

its an image, show up blathering on "bad" they are but oh dont think im not a nice person, get a life i say to these type of people

Many people are still really insecure with themselves, so I'll go with the hope that its just a defense mechanism!

but why be so childish to put something like that .....that just makes people think "wow your a real ass" and in most cases they are.....

maybe these people do it cause they dont have anything better to do with themselves....and also must not realize not everyone is out to judge you, but being like that the ones who dont judge are going to judge you and not positively...

as i believe it was joli that mentioned it.....i see it as a red flag......
if you dont like what they say just dont bother with them.....that way they shouldnt bother you..

This super tough image, that Goth has to be all about hate is like a cover of a book. Even the hardest have the softest hearts. It is also part of our human nature to hate, and to say that we don't have that is to deceive yourself.

Kids, learn as time goes by and it is all about growing up and learning new experiences..

I have noticed this and it goes greatly unappreciated. I also noticed some profiles that have just a lot of negativity, rules, and/or "dont do this, dont do that." These people I tend to downrate because honestly, negativity is not at all welcoming nor is it attractive. It shows a lot of insecurity, and little strength, even though these profiles try to look tough. The word I'm looking for here isn't ironic, but something to the tune of it.

I think maturity does have a lot to do with it. Perhaps education level as well. I mean there are lots of ways to tell people to piss off without cursing at them. And if you're really clever you can tell them to go to hell in such a way that they'll enjoy the trip :)

Hate and anger=deep.

You have to keep in mind that most of these profiles that spew hate are from minors. Remember being a teenager and thinking the world was f-ing you over? And no one understood? That stage of life can be awfully tumultuous and from my viewpoint those profiles eventually get deleted for inactivity or get changed as time passes.

It certainly is an indicator of maturity, but then again, being an "older" person, I don't expect a 13 or 14 year old to be mature all of the time. When I remember back to those ages, I was an angry kid...I had a hard time being happy and so in some respects, I get it.

Early adolescence is a really confusing time, and if you don't feel empowered as a person, sometimes attitude is all you have. I try to be open to all people until someone directly offends me, and most of the time I take note that young people like this are most likely decent kids, just struggling to find an identity.

As for the swearing, I dont really care for it, but its one of the "naughtiest" things young people can do in public. It's not as if they have the resources to make real mischief like talk on VR, then do a bit of insider trading ...yeah.

Anyway, I think our whole society is geared towards making kids grow up faster than they should and perhaps that is the reaction we see. Most of these people are actually pretty nice in my experience.

Thank you, I'm not the only one that thinks that. All they want is attention, they have nothing better to do or say those things so people can think they're cool,but they don't know they're just being anoying.

Wnating and pretending to be cool and distinct from the group makes a good home with immaturity and why not, as seen so often, lack of thinking... I guess that saying something that rude and "powerful" makes those people feel important, feel like they actually might get someone to fear them when actually they are the ones who are scared...
The hate expressed in those statements is an indication of how "well" they understand the true mening of this site and of the Goth philosophy they pretend they are applying to...
It is actually so sad seeing that, because instead of becoming part of something great they will be even more isolated... and alone...

*smiles* excellent point Ahriman. Hopefully some of these negative youngsters will rip through this thread and get their act together a little bit. After all, when people speak up, it is hard not to listen.

They are the ones who have small closed minds, and really big insecurity issues. They believe that it shows how tough and cool they are when all it really does is show how small, insignificant, petty, and immature they are.

On the flip side (not that I agree with the flip side) some of these people may be simply RPing as to what they think this website is all about... after all, it is called Vampire Rave. Some people percieve vampires to be negative, bullying, rude beings who have not a single care for anything.

Disclaimer: I believe the name of this website is absolutely perfect. Don't worry, I wasn't bashing it. :)

I don't know if I would say they are RPing. In order to RP you have to have back and forth communication with other people. They are just making a statement about themselves for everyone to see. But I would agree that they might have misperceived what the site is really about. The coming together of those with desire to learn more of a subculture or genre, depending on how you see it.

sometimes the only thing friendly and nice gets you is kicked in the butt

i have to completely agree with you first off if you join a site that is completely accepting to all others & makes that perfectly clear to all who join then why even bother getting to defensive in the first place! another is if people don't like you they're highly unlikely to even try to conversate unless you present the challenge i myself love it here & wish that people would spread frendliness rather than a hugely rude "FUCK YOU"

It would be nice if we could break through all the layers of each other's defenses and only have to deal with the real people underneath all that. Perhaps those who have constructed these defenses would find people who could help them grow beyond those needs. It's just as likely that they will find themselves targets because their warnings are often interpreted as targets and reasons for aggressive response.

However, I try not to hold things against folks too much if they have come to feel so threatened in their surroundings that they need to put up warning signs. I think the real world has left it's scars on all of us and we all learn to deal in our own way. It's a pity but I try to respect their signs in hopes that they can find their way out from behind their walls.

I think it is merely a shell some try to put up. I had a hard adolecence.. I was very angry then too. I didn't quite go as far as the "screw off I hate you" but it was hard for me to open up to people.

Not that I necessarily want to message those with hate in their profiles either. I suppose it's one of those nice self-fufilling prophecies.

I'm not so sure about some of this. In reality, everyone had a "difficult" adolescence because every single person has a different understanding of what difficult is. Therefore, we really can't make a scarring experience(s) an excuse for this behavior.

perhaps this is just their nature...or they choose to be this way....

i know i did some things when i was 'becoming myself' that i'm not proud of
i think that saying things like that make someone who is unsure with themselves feel a little more protected
at the time i didn't think i was having a bad time of it, i thought all that bs i spouted was true. it wasn't until i grew up a little that i discovered that i wasn't that kind of person, that dealing with people with respect is far better than assuming they suck and i settled into a nice routine of being polite (for the most part)
i believe they will grow out of it and when they look back on themselves they will laugh as i do now about how hard i tried to be 'myself' but didn't even know who that was yet ;]

Gee, thanks Sabre!

Anyway, maturity and intelligence are beyond these people for whatever reason. The people who constantly say negative/hurtful things, half the time they don't even really understand what they're saying. It's just sad. I say some mean things in my profile, not gonna lie. But it's obviously directed at the pervos, to keep them away. Aside from a use like that, I see the hateful words as trivial and annoying.

i think alot of pople get bord in real life so they want to mess up every thing here or maybe here it's easeyer to hate and to cause problems.

i agree that they are trivial and annoying
but they don't see them that way at all
they see them as 'expressing themselves'
i think the problem is so much about that they express themselves just HOW they do. a well placed cuss word can be humorous or get a point across, but it takes a while for some people to realize that being hurtful and cussing all the time at everyone in general really doesn't make your point OR make people respect you

I remember when cuss words were scandalous.. now its just the norm amongst grown ups. Perhaps it always was normal for an occasional swear word to come out from adult but since kids were immediately chastized for such language, they see profanity as merely a way of displaying adulthood.

Oh no, certainly not. But i don't really think they're looking for respect, just attention.

i think that's true of many
but not all
i believe some WANT respect, just are going about it the wrong way
i've noticed that a few, after i've talked a little to them, don't really have the 'f everything' attitude... which makes me wonder why they act that way

It's just a front, they act tough, try and intimidate people, make them respect them...

Well all points are valid …. We do need an angle from some one who has such crass in there profile …. Lots of angles come into play and yes as mentioned it’s part of growing ….
I remember having a transport pass that needed a picture of yourself on it … I gave the bird in all mine LOL funny then but what an ass ….

It's nothing more then an attention getter. Come off agressive and wow people will want to find out more.. Lets see how much attention I can get to my website if I say this or do this or put this here!!!

I also have to agree with Joli, it's a flag to alert others that hey.. there are some serious maturity issues with that person.

All it is, is a way to get noticed. Heck there are some that use VR as a dating service.

A well placed cuss word can have such a better effect in both humor and anger if it's not a constant part of your vocabulary. I prefer to write and speak with as much intelligence and respect as I can muster, that way when I drop the "F-bomb" or some other form of the profane vernacular, it carries more weight and pleasure for me.

i did notice that silverbow...i have had so many message me asking if i could be their girl, even one that asked me to help them find one on here.....its like um im not a matchmaker...if you want that go to match.com...want gothics, thats what gothicmatch.com is for, go find the link and go to it....

There is a need for some of these people to loosen up and peek out of their shells. One good method of doing this is to just try to be kind and patient.

Unfortunatly, that is always easier said than done.

personally, i TRY to make a joke or something with them. not many respond, but the ones that do are great ;]

Maybe they just simply don't know what how to introduce themselves...I have seen many new members come in and say things like that but after a while and after meeting other members they seem to slowly change their profiles. I'm sure there are those who want to make an impression and want to make their identities sound dark and fearless, as we all write out our own profiles expressing things about ourselves. There are many profiles that say things I don't particularly like or find childish young and old alike, but it's who they are until they find something else they like and want to be like that ! lol

I do think that they just might have some slight personality issues, and I couldbet that all of thier friends are that way. it's kind of a "Hey, since my friends use the 'F-Bomb' I can too and it won't affect me because everyone is doing it"

I Know I am Gulty of using it but I try to Put what I Really feel and what Will Interest the reader. having a big 'F you' on your profile dosen't even get the point across most of the time. so I see it as thier trying to act tough, but they are really coming across immature to the older and/or the more mature Memberss of VR

yes, i've noticed how profiles change as they become more a part of things
i like how articles and societies are making it easier for members to be their real selves and drop the front
i've also noticed more than a few aren't sure what to put on their profiles and that there are articles and guides to help there as well

yeah it can be quite annoying when peoples do that

I like her ^ A whole bunch XD

I usually try to be as inoffensive as possible when I'm writing, yet still let some of my personality peek through.

IRL, I'm not terribly friendly unfortunately.

I find it much easier to be friendly on the internet. Theres always the option on here of simply not talking to those you don't like.

When I see offensive profiles I usually just want to give them a one. I know that sounds awful, but why put yourself out there looking like the Grand Asshole of Buttland?

It's much simpler to be semi-friendly and weed through the morons to find the true gems.
If someone is a jerk to you, there's no big problem cutting them off, after all, it's only the internet. :)

Most functional relationships (between anyone) operate on the concept of reciprocity. You are treated a certain way by someone, you treat them the same in return. This is fine if the relationship is healthy, but if the interaction is toxic, someone needs to deviate from the reciprocity model and take the first step in a different direction.

Therefore, if you percieve someone to be a mean or rude person, and you respond in kind, the relationship only stagnates or deteriorates. The only thing that can break the cycle is for one person to change.

Given the calls for "maturity" on this thread, it would seem that the "mature" thing to do would be for those who consider themselves "other than" the people they are complaining about to extend a hand in friendship and kindness. If it's not accepted, so be it but it seems to me to be the only way to solve the problem.

I completely agree with you Nocturnis. People need to stop judging by what another believes, or does...or any of that. Everything in life is what you make of it and anything can happen if you believe in it. That's just the way life works. It also kicks you in the ass at times...but that's the higher powers making sure you just stay in line. It does sadden me that some people do join sites like this and others just to complain about a type of person...how they act, dress, like and don't like. It's all just stupid and I think mroe for attention than anything. Because they know that if one person gets mad, they'll more than likely message them, and pass the word...and so on down the line. And thesse people feel PROUD of it yet!

Grrr..we big bad vamppies...grr we gonna snuggle ya'll to death...hahaha...
dont take what alot of what you read of peoples profiles to the point of a tooth...
Im sure that if they hated people so much they wouldnt be online in the first place...

but thats just my opinon and at times they stink just like a butt (for lack of better words)

This falls under the old adage if you don`t have something nice to say, then don`t say nothing at all.

Very true...

Some people would rather be lumped in the bunch and try to stand TALLer in it, then just be themselves.....

I agree with Sacred that its a front & me personally i think its like a security blanket to hold onto..."If they think that im big & bad, maybe theyll leave me alone" type of thoughts, who knows for sure...

I just don't see the point in joining an online COMMUNITY if you're going to be anti-social. XD

I tend to agree with those who think that those kids with the "tough and hateful"deas expressed on their profiles do not really understand the Goth / Dark / Vampyic community. The misconception in greater society is the we are all mean, spiteful, hateful and depressed 24/7. When DAG first was exploring the "dark side" I was truley worried about it, until I went with her to a Goth club, and met some of the happiest, most intelligent and articulate people I have run into.

I believe these misinformed folk feel that putting out the "F-OFF, I'll Kill you" will help them to fit in here. Not realizing that vampires like to be treated politly also!

Okay well, it's just me to swear all the bleepin' time. I always have and I probably always will too. However, I do not let it out nearly as much online! It's too much unneeded work!

So my point here is, the ones who type the constant vvulgarity pre-plan this stuff. Or at least that's my theory. And I'm sorry to say, but it does seem more prevalent among the younger people. I'm not saying the young people are bad (as you already know), I'm just saying that some of them have serious attitudes. And of course you find that kind of thing with "older" people too, just not as much. DON'T HATE ME YOUNG PEOPLE! I'm only 17 guys, I'm almost one of you! LOL

As a very young person myself I would just like to say that I am surrounded by these types of kids every day. Those who really hate their life and the world, but do nothing to better their life nor the world. It really kills me to see so many young spirits caught up in their own pity, and doing nothing to make something of their life.

I beleive because I am so young I have to prove myself, but if these kids were not sending out such a negative image about youth, I wouldn't have to prove myself. But I would rather prove myself worthy than to create this negative image about ANY stereo type, so I just try my hardest anyways. :P

Good for you VelvetRose!

I have a 13 year old son. He is WAY too immature for us to let him on VR. He also trys to be a "potty mouth" but we call him on it every time. When I go out to hunt him down for dinner, I hear kids WAY younger than him, with much worse language coming out of their mouths. I know when I was that age I would have gotten slapped so hard I would still have my dad's hand print on my face if I talked that way.

A lot comes down to "True" maturity, which recognizes that profanity is not needed to get your point across and youth's "percieved" maturity, wherin they think profanity makes them seem older and wiser.

Meh, I'm a potty-mouth outside of the internet where it's much easier to just let it fly out. Not because I think it's cool, not because I want to be "bad-ass", nothing like that. It's because swearing is a habit, a very bad one. But spend four years constantly cursing and tell me you wouldn't be any different. I'm starting to control it though. But again, these kids prolly don't even swear that much! They just use it as part of their act!

Well... now that I think about it, maybe if we stopped shunning kids and making profanity seem like the devil, they might just calm down a bit. Just a thought.

Swearing is a habit, and doing it doesn't make you a bad person. I will admit I do it from time to time, but as you said, its not for an image :P.

Having a 13 year old son must be a handful! It is hard to be that young, but I'm sure he'll see what you mean someday. I know my mom would slap me into next week if I were to curse every other word, she wouldn't think twice. I just with that every parent could do that, because it may seem bad now... but if you look at history the well kept (I"m not talking abused, but just kept in line) kids turned out to be the best men and women.

I suppose my mother and I have a strange relationship then. We flip each other off and all sorts of "bad" stuff all the time (although I am 20, and both of us do have a warped sense of humor). As for my younger sister (who is 10), she has a worse mouth on her than me and my mom combined BECAUSE my dad makes a big deal out of it. And she probably picks it up from mom, my brother, and I... :)

There are some wild profiles but even like that it is always such a pleasant surprise when one of those people behind those wild profiles messages me for help or advice. And low and behold they conduct themselves very well. I have also seen some outstanding profiles and have gotten messages from those who just seem to be really awesome people and they turn out to be the most vulgar.

Heh, well having a sense of humor is not a bad thing either! It's just some kids take it to the extream and have no humor intended.

Ok I didn't read all of the responses, but I do have something to say about hate. It is so much easier to hate than love, love is the hardest emotion to conquer. To hate is human, to love, divine.......

Wow, a lot of great posts here. I will have to say I think it has to do with *young* people just wanting attention. They just want to feel like they belong some where. However it is very annoying. If they don't like this pplace then they shouldn't even bother to build a profile.

But that profile supposedly gets them some attention...

i dont know why that is. but as with me i do feel love and then there are days when i feel down and depressed but then every one of us vampire's and any other race have there down days. but then with me again i have more up days then down. so with these people that say all that crap.

the reason is that they arnt what they seem to be. and they are what you call a full of shit person ok luv ya

my guess would be they want to look bad and tough lso i think it is kind of an attention getter for them

i agree with all of you esp emerald. its like a taboo. I knw goth ppl who are jolly all the time and rarely down.

Yup, it's all for show. Think about it logically, you're going to kill me, and my TV? First off, the kid doesn't know where I live AND my TV could totally kick their ass! LOL, JK. Okay, that was immature, but I thought it was funny!

Yeah, I see what you're saying there... Makes sense.

It's amazing how naturally contradictory the "dark" community can be... no?

I was wondering on that as well. i went into a pro and the first thing i saw was rate and i will fu**in kill you. Hi my names..... so i left. lol. you want to have an attitude then no rate for you. stay a whelp forever i dont care.

when i was growing up i was what was called back in the day a head banger and there was punk which now is goth. we never were there to hate and kill and destroy all. we were there to have a good time and rock.

maybe now with a different age and time things change. cant be that much. lol. i think that most like to be on a site like this and feel all empowered with ooo I'm big and bad they will like me. well for me i say just be yourself. we all have problems and at times i know i can hate someone or something but come on now get over yourself or leave.

so i am to curious on why all the hate. i know life is bad but cant be that bad to say say hi I'm blonde and cute and i want to kill you. not a good combo seek help and dont call me in the morning. lmao

i think it has to do with age. its cool to swear and be rude (this is my own observation not saying it is true or not but it is what i see in the current world. it is all u see in the news on the streets and in some papers.

it is the society we live in today.

Yeah, but that's dangerous hun. then you start judging an entire age group. And hey, my profile does not say a damn thing about killing people or TV's...

lol, easy there kiddo.

Judging by age always makes the risk of making a mistake bigger.

When passing out judgement in any way, observe someone's actions. Not age, sex, religion or any other label.

But in a way your are right, the tendancy lately seems to be to swear and curse more to look "Cool", whatever that may be.

I'm just saying I have no need to kill anyone or their TV... :D

It's a fine line we're walking here...

Yes it is a fine line. But you have to use your common sense. if you do that and always act out of respect for others, there is really nothing much you can do wrong. If you do step over the line, apologize and make sure it doesn't happen again.

Sevenn, in responce to your post.. I have found that it is good practice to offer a helping hand to people.. I have.. I try to encourage people to put something OTHER then all the hate on their profile.. Heck have even helped more then a few fix the coding they are trying to do.

How the heck do you think I found out its an attention getter!! I asked. : smiles: seriously.. I did.. I sent several people messages and asked.. "Why did you put this in your profile? I would like to understand so that I do not misjudge you." Got told " its just a way to get attention and noticed" and a few " I could not think of anything else to put, what should I do? "

Sadly I honestally thing alot of this goes back to a few diferent things. One that they were never taught how to properly behave in social settings. For altho this is not a face to face meeting.. it is still a social gathering.

I aslo agree in a great many cases it is showing their lack of maturity. This has little to do with age. It is simply some people see nothing wrong and see no reason not to behave this way.

I aslo think part of it is that alot of people confuse Goth ( which why you think you have to be goth to be a vampire escapes me actually) with being anti social and mean and vicious. Again this escapes my inderstanding. But i have noticed when younger friends of mine have draged me to Goth clubs.. the attitude can be a bit more hostile than at other clubes I go to on occasion. Perhaps this is what the Goth community is moveing toward.. well the younger part any way... and to me that is a truely sad thought.

possibly due to the fact that they are insecure and afraid of people might think of them if they act themselves...

Silverbow: Exactly =) I have done the same. And so for me, its not so much the "problem" of why people do it (attention, boredom, etc.) I am a solutions oriented person, so I think what can I do to change this if it is annoying or bothersome? I have done things very similar to what you describe, with similar results. It's a nice feeling to know you can help someone.

Of course, I have seen a number of people stay rude, but I think all a person can do is tend to their own moral garden.

I postede on this yesterday.but my response seems to have vanished so.much respect to my coven sister lady orchid for posting this.and i agree.what is the point of coming out with the trash some people put in their profiles.aren,t we supposede to be coming here in search of knowledge and union with our fellow kindred.sometimes it is offensive when you read what some say.show some dignity for yourselves and everyone here.you gwet more respect that way.and Prince cancer has spent his whole life trying to get vr where it is.some of what is done is disrespectful to him and the acoloytes and sentorans and other staff.take care.respect yourselves and each other.

Okay, I like to think of myself as a young goth... For the most part anyway. It's a lifestyle, not just the typed of clothes ones wears... ut maybe some of the young "goths" on here aren't true goths at all, they're just looking for a place to belong. A lot of the wrold believes goth people to be hostile and anti-social, so they act off of that until they find out it isn't at all true. However, if we really are moving in a negative direction like that, call me an old person then, I am not going to be a bitch just to fit in.

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