The Ultimate Vampire Resource and Directory

One of the biggest mysteries in this world is how life came to be. How were we all created? How did so many various forms of life come to inhabit this planet?

The most widely accepted answer is the Charles Darwin Theory. Charles Darwin, in brief terms, hypothesized that we all started out as small, single-celled organisms and evolved to what we are today.

The second most widely accepted answer is the Christian Theory that God created everthing on this earth.

My question is this: Which do you believe is the right answer? Why do you think that way? Have you heard of any other theories considering how life came to be?

I would love to hear your opinions.

I once heard a native american tale that the Great Manitou created all beings from clay then breathed his own life into the clay forms making them life. I thought this was a nice idea

not meaning to seem anti-religious but in my opinion there can be no god, i do however beluieve that there was a higher race of beings who were over the years filtered into the word god.

I'm with the science since I have trouble believing someone created the whole earther.

I don't care for either theroy. I do think we grew to be what we are now. But at the same time I think there is a higher power. As for the begening of life as we know, I have no clue really.

Big Bang Theory

Lets not forget that many christians believe in the theory of evolution so with that number being rather depleted, it is probably not the second most popular theory. I'd guess that muslim religious origins might rank higher than christian religious origins (though both would rely on a god created world).

I'd be interested to know how many of the worlds 2 billion christians believe in a strict interpretation of a god created planet and instant creation of man (Adam) as opposed to a more hands off god created universe with evolution and natural planet formation.

if anyone has ever read Anne Rices Memnoch the Devil~ i believe this is a very good way to think of creation. it proves that nobody (not even god) is perfect and that curiousity tends to get the best of us. that the devil isnt so much evil as misunderstood, like so many people nowadays. if youre interested, please read the book. its great. and i wish there was a church that preached like this.

If you think about it, God couldn't have created things. He created himself, so wouldn't that mean he would be creating himself over and over again? So he wouldn't have time to create everything. Science wins.

I think Charles Darwin was an idiot, but that is just my faith speaking. His Theory is just about as bad as the theory of a turtle being God.

I am not sure if you could refute the theorys of Darwin. To call a noted scientist an idiot - that's moxie...

wow Amanda: If you think Charles Darwin was an idiot, you obviously know NOTHING about the man or his work. If you are tempted to respond with "I know he came up with the theory of evolution...yap yap yap" don't bother. He didn't. You might do yourself a favor and read a book or two before you make sweeping pronouncements about who the idiots are.

I believe that we each have our own belief(s) and most can not be proven by science..... If they could we would not be having this debate ......

personally I pull my belief from many different scientific studies, and biblical teachings

Well if you study the Darwinian theory you find out it was only a hypothesis. He never meant it to become a concrete belief but for some reason it took a life of its own. As for religion if you really study it without bias you find that one is based on another much older with different names but the story basically remains the same. Some that are being quoted from are rather new in the scheme of things and some things were voted to be correct in some. So we can't really rely on one over the other. Just believe what you believe. If you are science oriented you won't want a more spiritual answer and vice versa.

It's amazing how many creation stories there are. One is on the front of my profile. The Islamic one for creation of Adam, etc etc. I personally think all are interesting but will we ever know beyond belief? I doubt it.

There is also the concept of Divine Design which i think a lot of people do believe in... The theory of a higher power creating us can coexist with evolution.

I believe in the great experiment:
God wonders...how did I come to be....then sets a few experiments in motion, with creatures that self advance, in numerous ways...then sits back to watch if they can eventually advance to something like him....
we are the great petri dish

First of all, I'd like to know where you get your basis for most accepted vs second most accepted regarding the Darwin theory vs Creationism.

Secondly, while I'm not a Christian, I certainly don't think that my ancestors pulled themselves from the muck or climbed down from the trees. Our closest genetic monkey "relative" is the Orangutang and it has too many DNA discrepancies to be considered related. It's like saying that BillyBob down the road is my cousin because he's human. He's not.

As someone else pointed out, Adam and Eve didn't happen on the 8th day. I believe the terminology would be Christian Evolution? From what I've heard, THIS is actually the most widely accepted beginning of life theory, but since I have nothing to back it up - no statistics, polls, etc...I won't put it out there like that!

I kind a beleive ina mixt of both, as somethings did kind a evovle but not in a way it mutates into an other lifeform but I am a ferm belever in a higher force and that it did create things and the universe

Science, science, science. Darwin wins!

I believe that the universe was created by a deity using the Big Bang and evolution interjecting guidance to ensure their planned outcome is met.

I'm going with the Darwinian theories, for now. I think Creationism is crap because we've seen evolution, at least in other animals.

The Greeks believed in a plethora of gods, tracing back to a Mother Earth figure, Gaia, and her husband, Uranus, and they together "bore" the world and the Titans, who are related to the well-known Greek gods.

Hmm.... MY theory.....

Is very similar to KCRC......I think that Creation was directed by a Higher Power (God) but that the time frame would be via evolution.

Somewhere in the Bible it says that time is measured differently...."a day is as ten thousand years"....so why can't it be both???

well, i was raised to be a muslim but im not religious at all i think it was from a cell and through evolution we came to be...

OK...yea you know what there might have been a big bang, there might have been micro organisms..but ya know what else? The "higher power" (whatever that may be) created it!!....there is too much evidence, too many stories, and way too much coincidence to not be a higher power....My opinion at least.

God is unique and to be unique is to be lonely so I believe that God created us and every other life form in existence so we can evolve and one day stand next to him as his equals. I use words like ‘his’ only because many believe God to be male. I believe him to be neither. God or whatever you call him is beyond gender.

i belive in both

i like to see something for real before i fully have a opinion or judgment like evidence and stuff..

but i belive in the god aspect as its something taht keeps you woundering

like makes you think about why your here and stuff

but theres no real proof ie. noahs arc, jesus etc.

as im someone that likes proof this makes me only half belive

and i do belive in the scientific bit as hello we did not just turn up kapuff in seven days

theyes gotta be growth and mutations and thats left our world to way it is today


and yeah i think what i just saiid made no sense what so ever

but yeah

In this modern day an age science is used to try and explain things that people fear or do not understand .. Like there is always a scientific explanation for everything .. Well I myself think that there are some things science can not prove and will never prove .. there just some scientist theory so what makes it true

Alot of people say it was the big bang, Alot of people say it was god...i believe it was science & evolution of different species that started life...but everyone has their own opinion to how life started!

The Big Bang Theory to me is a joke...can one of the two of you who brought it up on this forum thread give me some sort of information on this theory? I'm 32 years old and have heard about the "big bang theory"..but I have yet to look deeper on to it. Seems to me like a big joke.

my personal belief is the darwin therory one good reason i have is if it was god created we wouldnt have people being born with a handy cap cause everything god creates is perfect and in his image right

welll like my favorite saying goes if god created this who created god till someone can answer me science wins

I believe a higher power created things but just not in the context of the christian theories.

I just edited KCRC's post up there. It's a really open-minded stance to have in this world. Confusing to many that it is possible to have faith and high regard for science.

I respect other views, I just have my personal one as well.

OK, I'm confused. Didn't some-one sneeze and created all things? Don't know for sure but I'm carrying my towel with me, just in case. ;)

I always thought there was something out there ..just not sure what it is yet.I don't believe with the whole Christian -world- created- in- 7 -days stuff.And I know some folks believe in the theory that we are evolved from some alien race, don't buy that one either.
Guess I have to wait and see*smiles*

i am not a believer in god. so science would have to be the winner for me

Not too please with people stating that the Bible is mostly metaphor. For it is not. It is a historical record. Some ideas are translated into metaphor for our learning and understanding. As for being a record, it is merely simplified. I know of one story of creation that is several hundred pages long and that's before Adam and Eve were even introduced! It explains that the six days of creation were in fact the days that Adam and Eve surveyed Eden and held a meeting with the counsel members on the seventh day.

If you do not know all the facts, and nobody does, keep guessing.

...and God didn't create all Life - He is all Life. The beings that do the creating is us and a whole kingdom that is behind the veil. This was one of the lessons that JC taught, and is not being taught to the masses nor understood. MO but not really. lol.

i dont know who he is he not in my address book........ people think of many things and not a damn one of us knows who made us or the earth we just think what we want to think

For some reason I've always thought there is a highter being, but not the God that is portreyed in the bible. Im not sure. I believe in this universe, were not the only ones...

Good point Ladydancer, I think we can all agree to disagree on this subject*grins*

Well there is proof to support the scientific side of things here, as many of you may not know, scientists found left over radiation from millons of years ago. im not sure where they found it, but it can be traced back before life was around, so something must of caused this radiation my views are for the big bang theory.

I heard we were created by the god to help the dragons and other animals keep the knowledge and balance of the elemental energies of this world.

I believe in evolution. Period. I do believe in an higher being but I think they threw us down and sat back and watch us grow. Makes the most sense to me. As a student of science, I have to bend towards evolution. But creation, which is the other theory may have some grounds...

I'm a believer in Science. I don't beleive anything unless it can be proven. I was raised Catholic, but even in my younger years I couldn't quite understand this concept of a higher being. So to answer your question, I stand by Darwin's theory.

i believe in charles darwin's theory.i don' t have much respect or belief in the christian religion. it's not very old, doens't have much credibility. basically christanity is a collection of stolen things from other religions, the only reason its so popular, i sbecause christian killed people that didn't believe their way, and added things like santa to their stolen holidays. tht and people are brainwashed easily, alot do what they are told, and don't ask questions.

I think it's a combo of both. evolution definately has something to do with it, fossils are evidence of that, but also I think god has more than a little to do with how we evolve. If we evolved from monkeys, there'd be no monkeys left. : )

For me, it is easier not to think about how we came to life. Maybe there is a god, maybe it was evolution or something else, but when you have your own problems the least of your worries are why you are here. I just try not to worry about how or why, i focus on my life and making it good while I am here. Now what happens in teh afterlife is something I am very interested in knowing.

Quantum Physics demands there be a God, our perception of God however may not be the correct one. Issic Asimov wrote a little story in his book "The Last Question" about a computer and human minds joining as one in hyperspace and billions of years later after the universe had ended, the computer called down from hyperspace to the 3rd diminsion "Let there be light" anyways you should look up the whole story its rather ineresting.

Dawins Theory of Evolution has been called into great question recently. Using mathimatics, astonomy and biology we find that our dating is way off and that classical evolution just doesnt work.

My peronal beliefs are that we were createe by God, and over time microevolution(which has been proven) has givin us the subtle changes we see today.

Microevolution has been proven for it happens on a daily basis. Macro-evolution has not been. Macro is what gives us one species to another. The evidence for what most consider evolution has been called into question time and time again. There was a thread similar to this several months ago where MrD and I had a very long debate on this topic, it ended with a gentelmans disaggrement for there is no way to disprove creationism nor a ay to completly rule out evolution. My point is simple science doesnt know everything and tries to make sense out what can be observed however we must not rule out any other ideas for they are just as valid and some can be backed up with plauseble science.

Well as I respect MrD a great deal, and will most likely make similar arguments that fall along the lines of documented science, I would say we should just agree to disagree right here then. Its better that way anyway, as it would steer the thread off track a bit. Thanks for your response.

Agreed. If you wish however I would be more than willing to take the debate.

I believe the ultimat aim of science is to prove the existence of God. Give me a single theory of everything and I'll show you predermination, fate and lack of free will

Billy...the bible is mostly historical you say....
such as what?
early man living 500-800 years?
people turning into pillars of salt?
now wouldn't that be an archeological find.....
I will admit there is SOME history in there....and yes I have read it quite fully...but not as much as you seem to postulate
there is more metaphor than fact, but I fail to see why that is a problem either...the book is to teach..and metaphor is a good teaching tool

anyways...
they have found further linkages between the upright dinosaurs and birds...this would suggest macroevolution to me, not micro
of course this theory is also widely disputed....

My vote is for intelligent design. For me there is too much perfect order for evolution to be responsible alone. I think something had to get the ball rolling. After all, where did the first spark of life to inhabit the first cell come from?

The thread subjects suggests that God and Science are at war, when the fact is, it is religion and science that are at odds.
God may be defined as an all knowing,ever present being which exists beyond this world. If then you take science and stipulate that God exists at the 10th Diminsion or even when considering the Lie groups in the hundredth + diminsion then God would be able to exist above us, beyond time and have all knowledge and power. For our existance in the 3rd Dim. is based upon the actions of the 4th, the 4th based upon the 5th etc. if God then being above us he can have all power here and be beyond our perceptions as we are bound to this relm.

I hope that made sense.

i think its a little of both God and science

no way totaly aliens lol

im not saying either way is wrong.

but i want to find someone who can tell me how all the elements lined up perfectly to make the first human.

When you remove semantics all those who believe in God believe in the some God, that is to say a "highest" power not just the "Christian God" or whatever. There is no need to censor the word lol.

Science when pared with philosophy can be used to favor one idea over the other however science as a seperate entity can only be used to prove what is observed and or mathimatically theorized/proved.

Science gives a need for a higher power "God" and can be used to show that a "God" exists. There is little evidence or support that says there is no God.

I understand fully and sorry for the geeky ways lol. You are correct in that science can not prove the perception of self, which you can take further to say that the perception of self creates the universe (Adaptaion of certian Eastern and even Christian ideas) Your going to like my book when it comes out.
Anyway, when it comes down to it the truth is only as the individual sees it unless we give way for the "group consciousness" where right and wrong are created.

And where subscription to the consensus restricts individuality.

Perhaps here, society reflects the Taoist aspects of one and all, self and selflessness.

I wasn't aware that you were producing a book on this. One of a number of recent works I've tried to get my head through, was Peter Russell's "From Science to God", which pretty insightfully looks at the same questions raised in this thread. Worth a read.

I believe in God or higher divine power, believe in someone you is taking care of us and loves us as his children ... but yes science is vast too and powerful. We are all made up of million moleclues with a nucleus as a station. If one moleclue is fucked well we all fucked up dude! Evolution happened to be how we are nowadays straight walking humans. But yet again how on earth we begun?!

only by time we know until we stop breathing and maybe we ask the same question in the afterlife

"In the beginning God said let there be light, in the end we shall say let there be light"

Yes I am co-authoring a book with a Buhhdist friend of mine it deals with God, philosophy, physics and the Nature of the Universe.
Should be published within a year.

The great thing is that in Quantum Physics you can see how our perceptions, our self consciousness can change the very nature of the universe itself.

Indeed, every action, even a thought, is an interaction of energy which has a resonant effect upon 'reality'.

I will look forward to your book.

One of the biggest problems in debate over what is and isn't seems to be perspective. Mankind has a very limited perspective with regard to what is. We can imagine and we can theorize, but what we know to be rules of nature or laws of physics can only be proven in our very limited portion of the known universe. The possibility of other dimensions, quantum mechanics and the microverse seem to imply that some rules can change based on how small or how fast or how dense things are.

I believe in scientific creation as far back as my mind will allow simply because at some point in the debate going back in time or creation far enough, it seems you simply have to make a choice or take a side and because I've yet to hear a description of the omnipotent, omniscient being that sounds in any way like a 'personality' that I'd want to meet. So my reasons are entirely selfish as the portrayal of most gods and deities have been.

One can argue that at some point in the creation of the universe there had to be a hand to put everything in motion. Then the atheists will ask what put the hand there. The result is a debate that is never ending and a debate that I feel mankind is ill equipped to actually handle. I don't think we can accurately understand even the most basic beginnings of such a debate. Concepts like 'infinity' or 'nothing' don't really stick in a way that we understand or can fully utilize. We're left with abstract ideas or mathematical calculations as a way of trying to interpret them and that lacks a concrete way of picturing them and understanding them.

Faith is a method of trying to explain something we'll never know and for those of us who lack something as simple as faith, there is a perhaps less fulfilling and maybe more lonely but altogether more understandable way of living to us in what we know and not what we believe.

i'm with science because it's the more logical theory. there's plenty of proof of how things were created by atoms and cells. but there is nothing that can prove there is a god

Quantum physics is a belief that the universe arose from thought. I buy into this

And it is true, when thought ceases to be so then does the universe. 'God" exists beyond this diminsion thus time and distance have NO bearing on him. When we understand this we then see how he could be all knowing and dare I say created all in 6 days. God is omipresent for he made the Universe out of himself therfore God is the Universe and the Universe is God. There must be a God to have the first thought, what happend before God is irelevant for time has no meanng and there is no before or after only the now..in the higher diminsions that is. (Remember the Lie groups operate beyond the 200th Dimension)

Why can't we have it both ways? Early man invented a "god" to explain what was happening in their world. As time went on we evolved and organized god into churches. Then as science became more exact, we replaced god with theory. So, who knows what is right? no one! Belief is a choice that we all make and it does not have to be right or wrong. We just need to believe in what we believe in and be prepared to fight to the end for our beliefs.

What is right is what is verifiable. We can not prove nor disprove God so in that is where we find belief. However we must insure that what we believe is true with what is known and or plausable. As for fighting to the end, of I think one ting and you think another and they are in contradiction with eachother then fighting will only lead to chaos. We must respect differing opinions and engage in logical debate.True fighting over belief is the most irational and dangerous path one can take. Millions of Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Gays, men, women and children have been killed because of "belief to the end" mentality.

I think it is the scientific method.. I believe there is a higher power. Not sure I agree that it is the Christian way that most people talk about. But I do believe that evolution has changed many things over the years.

Sevenn Wrote: "Charles Darwin introduced a THEORY. NOT the 'Theory of Evolution'...remember we have just covered that evolution is a fact"

I may not be understanding you, but the theory of evolution is just that, a theory. To make a theory it can not be proved. So, it can not be fact. Theory is an idea based on a series of events leading up to the question. If those events can be linked together, but not completly, it is called a theory. I hope this helps.
Blessed Be

i have heard no other theories but I feel god created the world. I was raised that way

I personally do not belived in "god" But I Do Believe in Higher Powers/Beings That have come to Make us What we are today.
But I also do have trouble accepting that part of Darwin's Theory

Also Stabb one must take into account the times that the Bible was written. Prior to being a written text, most of the stories were verbally passed down. So the ideas that all of the history was done at once is wrong. One must take that and that the text has so many authors that it is really less of true history, but a moral history of how to. Perhaps it was the first, “Idiots guide to living”?

And KCRC I fully agree with you as well, although I like using Einstein’s use of Light. With E=MC2 what people forget is that time slows as it approaches the speed of light. If you take the translations where God is described as light, then perhaps scientifically the seven days of creation equal far more days for those of us that do not travel the speed of light being that we are carbon.

Meeper, thanks for putting the term many seem to be over looking in here “Divine Design” is what it is called when you view it as the scientific and the religious view of creation can both be correct.

Thank you Xzavier as I fully agree, religion and science are the ones at odd. Because both stand to loose millions of dollars if one is more correct than the other.

To imply both, again they both loose money.

So while I will not attempt to make believers of those who do not have faith (for that is the only thing missing from those that believe in evolution and those that believe in Divine Design) I will say that for me this question has never had to be one or the other like many would suggest.

Rather the real complete answer has yet to be discovered and understood fully.

well i kind of believe that a higher being created our souls & the earth, like everything. i do not believe in heaven or hell or the devil. i also believe in rebirth as another person.

God created us & we return to earth as a journy to learn each lesson.

Liebe: I would not discount the OT history in the Bible so quickly, most of it has been proven to have happend, the question being was it God, nature or man that caused it.
You do bring up a point with e=mc2 yes time slows as an object reaches the speed of light, but the faster it move the more energy it needs. The current estements is that there is not enough energy in the whole universe to move a person at the speed of light. Anyway thats a side note, if you move above the 3rd Diminsion you lose the need to measure time in any real certianty. What seemed like 6 days to God very well could have translated into billions of year here.

Which was exactly the point I wanted people to realize Xzavier. Though I might add that is assuming that the item moving at that speed has mass. Ah, now there is a scientific can of worms for debate. Does God have mass?

Oh dear... Bad pun.

Just what Sevenn ordered ;)

Ha, funny
The honest answer is umm "theoretically" no he does not.

Yes, so with that as the factor, then the issue of mass becoming greater as it approaches light then becomes moot and we end up back with how long then would 6 light days truly be.

Also on a side note, I was not trying to discredit the Biblical events. I was just trying to have those that are not as familiar with the beginnings of the book to understand that much of the earliest books have their history in the oral format so the exact times of events can not be known except through what little we have learned through science ;)

Preciesly, time is irrelevant when either at the speed of light or above the 4th Diminsion. However speed is determind by distance over time, again higher diminsion =0time also =0speed for all distances are at once the same yet also spread accross countless light years

hows this for a combination....

they can both be right. god created the world and everything in it ..charles darwin believes we evolved.. the thing with christianity is that they believe god created the world and everthing in it within 7 days ...if god is a higher power , then god can not be held by the standards of time and existance that we hold...therefor a day to us could be several thousands of years for god, which could prove darwin's theory right in the end .. for god would have to start out small and work his way up to the larger creatures..as his desires to create increased.....

...just a thought not saying im right or i have evidence of all this but it does make one think

plaguedritual9631: Thats a noble idea however it doesnt work, for one while
God may not be help to conform to time we must. Evolution is based upon time and biology both of which has substantial holes in it.

I've always thought the it was the method of divine creation that I found so unbelievable...woman out of a rib and all that.

It would seem to me that if there were a god, and if he was truly omniscient and omnipotent, and if he/she in infinite and perfect wisdom created the laws of nature, why would he step outside those laws to perform miracles.

Rather, it would seem much more appropriate that a god who knew (through his omniscience) how things would go billions of years down the line, could in fact build INTO the laws of nature everything necessary to not only bring about life naturally and evolution thereafter, but to have planets form naturally around a sun...and build that planet so that a naturally occurring volcanic eruption timed to go off in the right year would bring about the necessary plagues of Egypt at a time when it was both necessary and dramatic for Moses.

See we look at the divine from a human perspective and it would be very difficult to even imagine what knowing 'EVERYTHING' would even be like...so I try not to.

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