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I been finding something wierd....How can some nightkind believe they are nightkind but dont believe in magic or witchcraft?

I think this is a very interesting question. I agree that I would like to see some elaboration please. :)

I am not nightkind. Saying that I want it to be known that this is my opinion. I am not an expert on either subject.

In being nightkind, does the individual have to believe in magic? Magic can be called the manipulation of physics. To be nightkind seems to be the manipulation of nature...so to speak.

Nightkind is more the carbon based nature portion of science and while the laws of physics does govern this, other natural forces can act within to disrupt or change the natural process.

So, I would not imagine that belief in magic and being nightkind are mutually exclusive.

I hope that this was what you were looking for in your question.

Well i was talking to someone on here cant remember who but he said that he was pureblood vamp. but as we talked i told him about me being a dark neo pagan i he said that magic was not real..
I could not understand this so i went to a were site i belong to and alot of them dont not believe in magic....how can we be things of myth and legend and dont believe i magic. if any thing we prove it is real

I guess a vampire is an abomination against nature … that in it’s self is not magic

Ok i see what you are saying my problem is that it is like they are closed minded.

Thanks for your response, I think its a valid question due to my personal beliefs about the idea of shape-shifting: I am much more inclined to believe in magic.

I do understand Trivia's point as well and think its a good one. That if 'otherkin' 'nightkind', and so on are genetic conditions it may not necessarily involve magic at all.

some think that vamps where born of magic

yes and i know that genes has alot to do with it but so family have magic pass down the bloodline as well.

Lajah,

Excellent statement and a point I had not thought out. If magic is passed through genetics, then it is valid. But, that would mean the conditions of nightkind are passed through blood.

From the information I have gained from this site and my studies, I know that many know they are nightkind due to being born as they are. Being able to do magic from birth would put that ability in the same category.

But I still don't see how you would have to believe in magic if you were nightkind. Unless you believe your nightkind ability is based in magic, you would not need magic to explain what you are.

LOL. This is an interesting thread. Thank you for challenging us to think!

Lavisbre, I confess I am offended by your statement that vampires are an 'abomination against nature'.

That aside, this really is an interesting subject. I'm reminded of something that happened to me in school. I mentioned to my religious education teacher that I believed in the supernatural, but not in God or the Devil. His opinion was that I couldn't possibly believe in the afterlife and not in god. To which I replied: yes I can, because I do.

My point? I believe that people will believe in what they want to, regardless of whether others think it links to other things or not. And this is no more wrong than somebody believing in everything, or nothing. Its all personal perspective.

For the record, I do believe in magic, vampires, lycans, and ghosts, not least because I have seen proof that they all exist.

lol....CarnalxViolence....I guess that's it in a nutshell.

Belief of/in anything, in a wondrous thing.

Personally I am not drawn to magic, nor have I ever met what is known as a shape shifter.

I find creatures of myth and legend interesting and have explored web for information on what can be called otherkin, as well as being helped by people on this site to understand such things as archetypes.

I guess it would boil down to individual beliefs and how much "proof" one person needs to decide that something is "real". I suppose if you blindly believe in everything, where would you draw the line? If you believe in the nightkind because you ARE one of them..but you've never experienced magick.. I guess that could make you a non-believer. I would think though, that nightkind and others would be more open-minded to unproven possibilites given that they are outside of society's "norm" themselves.

If the use of magic is the use of energy, and vampires drain energy through blood; why wouldn't they be considered of the same ilk?

hey caenalx violence sorry I offend just my opinion based on the question
a vampire is undead soulless being that kills drinking blood and becomes dead during the day and alive during the night… that my flower is an abomination of nature which is normally very balanced

That's just like when I was told once I couldn't be Wiccan and Psi. Vamps supossedly go against the Wiccan Rede in the fact that we harm others when we "attack". Even if it is with a donor and actually do no real substantial harm to them.

It goes into why people belief what they believe in. People believe in what is comfortable for them to accept. For some the idea of casting magic that actually affects reality is not something they are comfortable accepting no matter what they maybe...

Very true Isilmea

what if it was given, would it still go against it? There are many people willing to be a victim, does that they are willing to give of themselves mean that it is not truly harm?

That doesn't make sense to me, all things are connected.

But am I really hurting them? Am I causing any harm to them, and if I am, what harm are they going through? I'm not going to maim them, and I'm definately not going to kill them.

What about identifing with the victim role? There are people who go through life seeking to be victims because it validates their ideal of self.

Then you would assisting them; even if others view it as harm.

Yes. I have been the donor on more than one occasion and I find no harm done to me. It all falls into the hands of the person and the control they can sustain.

it can also be used to learn. Sometimes students must have something done to them to understand what they are attempting to do.

Look a massage schools; they work on each other first then the public second.

*giggles* yup, practice makes perfect.

well like i said the thing is that you have to be open minded about everything this will make you strounger in all your gifts

well I don't think that I am any thing but human, lol, but just because someone says that he/she is a vampire doesn't necessarily mean that he/she has to believe in magic does it?

I think that everyone here should at least keep an open mind and just try to acknowledge the fact that it could exist. :) I mean, if we didn't, where would we all be?

I have struggled with this same question laj, how can you say you believe in a well face it supernatural creature, claim to be a supernatural creature, then yet be close minded in regards to magick, religion, ghosts and many other things. It makes no sense to me.

Well when vampire control people with their mind, is that not a form of magic? Forcing your will onto another to change the outcome of a situation?

It doesn't make sense to me at all how someone who believes in Vampirism could deny the existence of other supernatural things, such as magic. That is just plain ignorant.

You'd think that people who are well knowledgeable in this dark and occult things would naturally keep an open mind to similar things...

Exactly.

Bravo Adora!

I'm confused. Is the person in question claiming to be a Blood Sucking Vampire, or a Psychic Vampire? I suppose it could be said they are one in the same and since I'm new to this I think I need clarification.
If the person believed himself to be a blood sucking vampire and the condition was indeed genetic such as other "diseases" or ailments (and in some medical circles - addictions fall into this category) then it would not be neccessary for the person to believe in popular culture's interpretation of magic. But, as many have posted here, if he fed off the energy of others, then, yes it would be a contradiction in terms.

As a side note - would someone be able to direct me to a thread that does actually clear up the difference between the two?

It does not seem to matter from what I can see, if they drink blood; they are taking the person's vital fluids and thus their energy. if they take their energy; as you pointed out it is the same.

To me it is more about is the vampire aware of what they do, and if they are is it to the point that they understand the energies involved.

I suppose your right. It seems to be similar to the difference between someone glutonously consuming fast food, and a vegan following a Macrobiotic diet. Both are consumption of "life" sustaining nutrients but which is more beneficial to all involved and around?

being open minded is the way to unlock the secrets of the mind.And it make the world alot more fun if you keep you made open...think you all for post on my tread this is cool

i believe i understand what this person was saying in regards to 'magic is not real'.

the neo-pagans many times worship the energies of the gods and the energies that these deities represent.

rather than humanizing these energies into the forms of gods and goddesses, these energies are treated as useable energies. rather than worshipping or treating these energies as a patron, they are instead called by name to associate with the human mind, the meta mind, and the spirit mind. in this fashion, they are a mere naming convention for the energy one wishes to interact, work with, and unite with a particular working.

with this particular mind-frame, the gods are dehumanized and instead are the energy strands that they represent. and a worker of energy, a manipulator of energy, works beyond the realm of strict ritual and correspondences. rather, this worker is dealing with the force of 'magic' at a sub-level of reality and it is in this fashion that 'magic is not real'.

it is all a matter of perception.

this site attracts a lot of people, and quite naturally they do not all share the same beliefs, and not all are attracted for the same reason.

some are practicing witches, some are practicing vampires, and some some are other nightkin.

but some are just roleplayers. they have played vampire RPG games, and throw themselves into the role quite deeply. so naturally, when they find this site, they assume it is a meeting site for other roleplayers, and do not realise that it isn't.

also, there are a few people - and not wishing to offend anyone, but is a fact anyway - there are a few people who have lost touch with sanity. personally, i was never even on letter writing terms with sanity in the first place.

generally, if you find someone here who has an ego as big as a planet - they are probably unbalanced. i'm okay - my ego is not much bigger than a small continent.

most people I noticed believe in what they want to believe and don't want to see it any other way....yes everything seems that it is connected to some..but to others it could be the complete opossite(sp?)

but that is just how I see it...I don't know

karnstein, i think my ego is small; it is the size of jupiter's smallest moon.

yes, compared to some egos here, that is positively tiny

Everyone has their own belief system and they make it suit their needs/desires. It's always been like this and it always will be. Even in the most strict religions, people will have varying beliefs. We're individuals. We can't help it. I'm Wiccan, but I don't necessarily believe in magic. I believe in the power to make things happen through your will. I don't believe in shooting fire from the tips of my fingers. That's because that belief works for me. It keeps me grounded and gives me something real to believe in....because...um...I can't shoot fire from my fingertips. :)

This raises an interesting question: how in a world of supermarket belief systems can a holistic belief framework survive? The pick and choose approach to belief fosters irrational intolerance of related belief systems which I think is the issue raised, very intelligently in my view, by the poster of this thread....

all things are one , in one way or another so this make zero sence to my way of though...333

too believe in one you must believe in the other in my opinion..

Lajah look into the Native americans ideas on shapeshifting.

belief or not to belief, none of it is real, yet it all exists...

I dont get it either , if you believe in one you should believe in the other

DasWolf - which Native Americans are you referring to?

I feel closer to the night but am not a vampire or anything of the sort

Well everyone has there own belief and does it rally matter as long as we all get alone together.

very good ? Lajah now you got me woundering about this.

I mean he does have a point but if some one doesnt believe in some thing let leave it be but if they approach you tell them how you feel that is how i handle it.

like i said you have to be open minded or be able to listen to what other have to say....I learned that control so i wont be a ass all the time

but what can it be then

Many people don't believe the vampires are actually supernatural.......except in the movies.

I think its a way of life to choose, it doesn't have to be magical in any aspect, if they choose to be the night type then they have that choice.

Everyones system on their beliefs is different.....it's like they say "to each his own"

more than each thier own it is about cycles and how interactions occur to just simplifie it takes from the meaning it has for other people

I would have to say to each his/her own because some believe in majik and others dont. I know it may sound weird but that is the naturre of the beast.

I am not quite following you...do you have any specific examples?

ok it is like a person says i am a vampire i have super strenth and can shadow but.. then they say i dont beleive in magic

I think a lot of people who say they are a werewolf or a vampire does not really believe it themselves and when someone ask them a question like that they probably get mixed up and say what they really think, im not a real vampire or werewolf but i do believe in magick, and i do think it is possible for their to be such things as werewolves and vampires out their even tho i have never seen one in person...

Most people who say they are a creature of myth or legend just want to seem cool, but they really have no idea.

silly humens, let them belive what they want. we know who, and what we are.

as for the magic thingy....they are counterdicting them selves aint they? by saying they can shapeshift, but dont belive in magic.

if it's not magic, then what is it? smoke and mirros?

If we are referring to the belief in oneself as a modern living vampire, if we don't go into the immortality of the soul or reincarnation, what we are looking at is energy manipulation or consumption. If one wanted to, they could believe in this from a more 'scientific' mindset (like kirlean photography, or esp) where there is supposed to be a rational explanation that we just haven't discovered yet.

Once you get into souls, that doesn't necessarily require magic or miracle but could just imply alternate forms of existence. In that area, it's easy to allow for immortal souls, vampire souls, therians and more and it doesn't require that magic come into play yet.

Now the few who claim extra abilities like shapeshifting, shadow walking, flight, or other metaphysical traits would usually need some kind of magical belief there but one could just as easily argue these points under the same principles I brought up earlier (ESP, Telekinesis, Pyrokinesis, etc) which would make it a paranormal but not magical belief.

Surely, if you look at it from a perspective of mixtures of belief sytems overlapping, then surely we are all on different "paths" in our interpretation of the world, so of course see things very differently... I think it is a very interesting question, but one that to a certain extent can be explained by the very nature of people- we can all see the same thing in a completely different way, and thats the fascinating thing about it all.

I personally believe that "magick" is a will to believe something, and make it happen through your own personal sense of will; surely thats what people want to achieve in every action that they do? Put themselves into the world, and evolve by its stimuli, and that (to me anyway) is why these sorts of arts keep evolving and changing after so many centuries, but will never remain transfixed as one particular definition in the minds of those who it effects.

How do they believe they are "nightkind" in the first place?

yes how?

Carnal i think Your so right...
Many people only believe in what it is they observe or see or have have pure facts in front of them ... If they have not seen it to have occured or Information displayed in front of them they simply choose not to believe.. So many here are right .. A vampire born with specific abilities does not mean they are also gifted with Magic.. I personally think Magic is a field by itself and Some vampires have dipped into this realm to Expand their horizons.. Some have been also bron with these traits and some have not been born with or decided to train in magic which then You would have people who could possibly not Believe in it or just have no knowledge of the ability and so CHOOSE to not believe

To each his or her own, we can only judge the world according to our understanding of it. That being the case they are having a hard time understanding you and you them.

I believe vampires might exsist, but werewolves do not.

I haven't found any proof at all about werewolves.

Basically same thing, so the answer is easily.

It's all centered around the word "believe". Can you believe in something without being able to prove it exists? Of course...but its you're own choice to either believe or not.

Many "nightkind" choose not to dabble in the Arcane/Mystic Arts, just like not all black folks beat on drums and have bones sticking through their noses.

I guess you have to look past the stereotypes and realize that each individual has an individual path to follow, and it is up to said individual whether they will perpetuate the stereotype, or ascend it and make a name for themselves.

It is difficult not to believe in one but not another for me. I have witnessed too many weird things in my life to start doubting now.

Magick, not real? since when? and Greetings to the thread maker I have a friend who I thought was the same way only he later told me he was being sarcastic and was mocking the ways in which many who belong to a pack/or group/ or those who believe and follow it was truly a dizzy type of intelect but i figured what ever no reason why i should listen u know?

i think people who do believe in it, choose to hide it because of what they think other people will think.

Well I believe in it. But I know alot of people that dont believe in it and just argue that magic isn't real.

I believe Magic is real, its in everyone's opinion whether to believe in it or not.

But not everyone will accept what they see.

The dammed are simply put as the dammed for a reason and they don’t have to have any affiliation with witches or any of the other crafts.

Some vampires and otherkin don't believe in witchcraft for the same reason that some Christians don't believe in the old testament...Just a matter of opinion.

I avoid spending my time worrying about what every one else believes in.
they can do as they like I suppose - as long as it does not affect me

I am who I am, what other people believe doesn't bother me

Their are some people out their that does not believe in half of the things they say they only say them to have an opinion...

one thing for sure if what ever we believe or think we are its our choice to decide.. even if its imagination .. i was born into babtist believes but have relized a choice..no discrimantion this way .. its all possible

its alll personal,dude to each their own

thats for sure..

In the matter of religious beliefs all is subjective.

Excellent statement

i dont think the two , magic and night creatures have anything in common other than they are legends

You could turn that around and say that some who practice magick do not believe in nightkind. It makes no sense to those of us who believe in both.. but it's just the way it is.. it's an individual thing.

to be something does not mean you have to believe in something else. Some people have many beliefs and some stick to one. What makes sense to others is not always going to make sense to you.

I have wondered the answer to this question also. I have concluded that certain people will only believe in one thing and not anything else.

It is their belief and we truly can not fault them for it, even though it may make no sense to us. It is up to the open minded people to understand that others do not have to believe, no matter how we personally feel about it. We have to accept them as they are. If not we have become closed minded.

Just my rant on the subject.

I do not see where it matters you either believe in something or you do not belive , everyone is different sooo it is whatever you believe.

Being one who delves highly into the metaphysical.. magick is what you find it when you seek. smiles.

the use of magick whether in the craft or the magic of what is around us daily.. life itself is magic. sorry that is my view.
I luv it. grins.
anyways... all creatures are a part of this magic.
And those who practice various levels and forms of magick and can embrace the terminology transfer for discussion purposes .. are.. in my opinion far wiser than others who are hardlined in whatever category.

smiles.

A'do.

~ Wolf.

as mystressvampyra stated to each there own i do say a open mind is truely a good idea....and with what ravenknight has stated makes much sence id also have to agree and shadowseekers has mentioned as well i agree with that too i have my doubts on werewolfs and feel much beliefs on vampires but again thats a to each there own its all what you believe..... this was a good topic

yeah not my department sry!!!

To believe in one supernatural entity does not require that you believe in all of them. Since faith in the unknown is extremely personal it is hard to categorically say that if you believe in X you must believe in Y.

This thread has been automatically closed for length.