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Ok this is an ethical question for all of you that are of a vampiric nature or magickal path. There is a guy that I happen to work with that is causing a friend of mine a great deal of emotional harm but due to his position at work she can’t confront him on top of that she is too passive to. Now I normally would deal with this myself in a hands on manner but as I know this guy won’t listen to reasoned word and would wipe the floor with me if it came to blows I am thinking of another method of attack here. I am honestly thinking of not only sending a "visitor" his way with a message to back off and on top of that indulging in my vampiric nature on him until he gets the message. By this I mean as a psychic vampire I plan to feed from him quite heavily until he gets the message. However I am torn between listening to my own code which says vengeance is ok when it is for someone you are oath bound to protect and the fact that many in the vampire community would be rather unhappy with this indulgence of our predatory nature. So I ask your thoughts and opinions in the matter.

I would encourage your friend to stand up for herself.

At the end of the day it falls upon us all to ensure that other people do not treat us badly, whether in a work or home environment.

It has taken me alot of years to do this myself so I know how hard it is, I also know that these situations will repeat themselves until such time as the lesson is learned.

I think your friend needs to deal with this herself

I am not sure if I needed to be clearer on the situation but as I said she CAN NOT confront him on the matter due to his position. Besides that she has spoken to him already on the matter and apparently nothing changed. She can do no more than this and frankly I feel it’s time for a little harsher methods.

well there is always someone highter up than he even is, plus there is also laws that protect people as well when being harassed in any shape way or form she needs to handle this herself really or she will always be the passive victim of her own life.

I speak from experience seriously. She can call many different agencies that handle this kind of stuff and will tell her exactly how to *entrap * him in the sense that she has the upper hand, I learned alot from doing just that.

I mean there is the equal rights Job protection agancy, lawyers that give free advice, etc just to name a few.

I myself am wiccan and even I would not consider using any spells or powers against this it to me is un moral when there are *human* ways to handle it without the Vampiric or wiccan spell ways . I hope that makes sense to you.

One wonders if there is another higher up that she can talk to for assistance with this fool?

This is a hard one to answer. i my self am a very passionate person and have to stop my self many times from hexing people.

weather you do or do not do something remember karma , what you dish out will come back, even if you know you are in the right. Plus fate takes care of things.

on another note if you are caught doing something that could be harm full you could lose your job and that could screw you over, but i understand wanting to help a friend.

As a fellow psy vamp - feed if you like. As a witch - watch it "do as ye will, least ye harm none"

Although you wish to help your friend - you know the rules. You are not the Karma Police - they do their job well. This has become a mantra of mine to remind myself the universe always fixes things with much more vengenace when neccessary.

However - there is one loophole. (Being Irish I had to find it) You can always do a binding to keep this person from harming others, you can teach your friend defensive magick (if necessary) you can always ask for one to "get what they deserve" which not a harmful statement in itself, can bring serious aggrevation to a bad person.

It sounds to me that the best thing you can do is teach your friend to stop being so passive. Their are laws out there for whatever she is dealing with. Also - there is always another job. Maybe it is time for a change - especially if the person who is causing her trouble is the top boss.

Well as for her leaving the job we are in the military so ya kind of can’t just quite. Now I am not totally sure that what this person is doing is against the law here and that is the issue. If these people’s actions are not illegal but causing her discomfort there is little one can do if there is no proof that he is doing is wrong. It would help if she would be a little more forceful in her words to him but that’s not her way and well I can’t stand by and allow this to go on.

Here's an idea...

...pretty complex. Stay with me on this one.

You and your friend should put your collective psy vampire abilities together.. combine effots... join energies and.. and..

...update her Résumé so she can go find a new job.

Unfortunately I don't know of a single job in the world where conflict and the ability to handle it isn't required. If she can't go to her boss' boss and tell him/her what is going on, then she has issues well beyond the conflict with her boss.

Unless her boss is her pimp... then she's really screwed.

No pun intended.

Ah.. military.

Well, then she is screwed. Tell her to finish her time and get out.

Or request a transfer to get away from this person.

Don't know what else to offer up on that topic.

no offense

but she needs to stand on her own 2 feet. How will she learn to do so if people do it for it,

as a note she does not seem so meek or passive if she joined the military , the military does not take the meek they take the strong , maybe she does not know how strong she is.

I say this no matter what anyone says you will do as you see fit anyway because she is a friend.

But if she does not confront or transfer as birra mentioned then she will have to do it until her term is up.

But consider this maybe he uses some of the crafts you know so as psy draining of somebody's energy......maybe this is why se is scared or something or another because he is using her own fear against her to do what he wants.

I would say this if he is a higher ranking officer then use the ignoring method.

This is basically where she will take the power in which he has her by if she just does as he wants when it comes to orders and she shows no fear then he will move on to suck on the fear from someone else and will leave her alone.

P.S. Sorry for this hapening to her.

The military isnt really a place for a passive person and it could be that he is doing it purposely to harden her or break her depending on what the actual circumstances are. There are policies and procedures for grievences that are in your manuals that you can go to his commanding officer and report him for his actions. That is the proper ethical way to handle this situation as a subordinate. You can also have her instead of acting scared and indimidated - start killing him with kindness and direct eye contact will always get someones attention.

That just it she has told me that what he is doing isn’t against our code of conduct or any laws so she has no real grievance. Now if she where new I would say that she is just unaware where she could look for help. However she isn’t new and has been in longer than I have which is three years. Now as for them trying to harden her or break her that is not something that is any good because you can’t force a person to quite the military. You are kind of under a contract. Now I know that she really should handle this on her own but you can’t drag a person to their feet and make them be forceful. So and this is just my opinion until they seek to gain that strength on their own it is up to those of us that have the ability to and are willing to act in defense of the meek.

what exactly is he doing can I ask?

It would help to know what is going on.

As for the question of how to help - I gave you at least 2 viable solutions that will not return to you threefold.

That’s the part that really maddens me! She won’t give details. All she will tell me is that he is backstabbing as a friend and is really doing something that is making her uncomfortable. Now I know the guy and does ooze the sneaky slime ball persona. It also doesn’t help that she is my friend and I would probably be biased to side with her any way. Now I am usually pretty good at ferreting out an answer but in this case I just am not sure and don’t want to press her as she does have a right to keep something’s to herself. I know I know I am hot headed when it comes to my friends and well I am that likes to act rather than react.

Well, you keep getting different ideas to help you and your friend and you keep being negative that no no no won't work... so unless you do take under consideration one or more of the suggestions here, then she has to deal with it until her time is up. At this point, put in for a transfer... if she has no gumption to help herself, then she has to deal with it.

than at this point I would back away and stay out of it because it doesnt sound right. You dont want to put yourself in a position where you are going to be in jeopardy and when a gal says "backstabbing" from a guy thats a superior .... hmmm and wont devulge to you anything and says there isn't a code of conduct broken for a grievence? hmm sounds like a personal problem from her stand point and she's having a hissy fit over something shes afraid to tell you because she might embarress herself.

I am not trying to be negative here I am just putting out what will and won’t work here. She can’t quit and she can’t get a transfer. You are stuck at a place until your orders are up or you get the off chance that you can swap with someone but they have to be equal to you in qualifications so that’s a no fly for her. Now normally I would just report the situation myself if I could but I have nothing to go on so I am powerless there. I will take your advice into consideration (the first post you made) and look at what the others say after this. I am simply looking for a nonbiased view point on this and I am responding as questions come up so that people know what options I have already looked at and ruled out.

As a sanguinarian and active member of the vampire community, I must state that this would be a bad idea. Is it not enough that we must already live with the stereotypes of Hollywood and fiction? If we succumb to the pressures of society and feed in a wanton way for nothing more than a sense of vengeance, does that not make us exactly how Hollywood perceives us? Nothing more than violent parasites. As a psychic attack, it is not something that could be seen by normal people, yet you yourself would know that this attack had taken place. Luckily for you, your method of feeding is not a way that would really draw attention to the community unless your victim was in some way an energy worker himself and would be able to see your attack for what it was. There are too many variables in this to call an attack a plausible thing to do.

I believe that your friend should confront this person for herself. The worst that could happen is she gets fired. In which case I say, find a different job where you won't be near the person giving her such a hard time. The best case scenario: He sees her standing up for herself as a sign that she's actually sticking up for herself and no longer taking any flak from him and winds up respecting her more for it.

In nature, those who do not defend themselves either get killed or become everyone's bitch. Human society is nothing but nature claiming civility.

than the best advise you can give her is to keep out of his way, keep the contact to a minimum do your jobs/time and maybe as time passes this situation will too.

This must be a sketch, right? If not, I suggest writing to an alternative magazine Agony Aunt column. That, or do what Birra says. Good luck.

My mistake, I missed the part about the military. Your best bet in that situation is for her to go on up the chain of command until you get to a superior who takes actions. But if she is being shady about the whole thing, friend or no, I'd tell her that she is on her own to situate things out if she can't trust you enough with all the details of what is going on.

I would encourage your friend to go to a higher authority to stop this person. After all 'legal' avenues have been exhausted, then something next level can be tried. Perhaps something as simple as a transparency spell, so that it dosent hurt the person but shows the world what kind of person they are.

If your friend can not stand up for herself or speak to his superior..Then she could always wait for Karma to catchup with him... Because it will... If she continues to do the right thing then her reward will be forthcoming.. Feeding an Angry person with more anger will just fuel the situation.... and might backlash and hurt your friend even more.

Like someone else mentioned, their is always someone higher up on the totem pole and she should carry her grievances there. If all else fails then do what you must thats what friends are for.

There is some sound advice here. Some very good ideas. They mostly seem to depend on your friend taking action.

Your friend needs to needs to be the one who deals with this guy or she will never have self respect. You need to let her know that you are behind her and will support her all the way and be with her during all conversations. I know of many people like this man you speak of and he will never change his ways! With that being said, I wouldn't hurt to have a backup plan just in case he goes psycho on her.

From a differant perspective and one that takes the most efficient way to solve the problem, I say drain the fool dry. Since she wishes for someone to stand up to him on her behalf, thus she came to you for a solution. Ask for no quarter, none shall be given. Problem solved.

Hahaha SoulShroude you = Win!

My first response, when someone comes to me with an issue, is to rattle my sword on my shield and jump into the fray. However, I've learned painful lessons that action before planning usually equals not so much a good outcome. You should definitely encourage your friend to explore every and any available avenue to her to put distance between herself and the offender. Unfortunately, the military has rules all its own, which is probably why she came to your in the first place.

That said, if you are prepared to shoulder the consequences of not only having your friend rely on you in this way, and going after Mister X, then go for it. I would however consider carefully who you are up against before acting.

Actions vs consequences, very well put. I would speak with a senior officer regarding this matter as well.

There are other avenues of resolution that can be taken. You don't need to attack this person. Your friend should go to the person's boss, and if nothing comes of that, your friend should go to his boss's boss. Follow the chain of command. Eventually, someone will listen and help.

This has really gotten off topic- it has gone more into self "help" seeking. Please keep it to the topic of the Ethical question that was asked.

Looking at this situation, and the vague place you are viewing (you state she hasn't told you details), my question to you would be:

How much do you trust this friend?

Is there a chance she is doing this just because she doesn't like the guy? Or is it a way to emotionally get you involved so that she is in turn "vamping" on your emotions?

Depending on those questions- you have a choice; react right away, or plan. Personally I prefer to let time determine my involvement rather than jumping in "gung ho" unless I completely trust the person. Given that my personal ethics are I let time and karma do their thing. However that does not mean I do not give my assistance where it is appropriate.

As someone else has stated, there will consequences: both positive and negative ones. Be ready for them with either choice.

Personally I see nothing wrong with it, I have done it before to quite good results, the problem is that where does it end... There are other ways to deal with it other then the chaotic nature of the psychic vampire, there are spells to make a person feel the feelings that they are causing, or my favorite, give said gentleman night terrors, after a few days you will find this gentleman very docile.

I have had fellow employees try to suck me into their fits of persacution before the pattern is just as you write it out here
vagueries and shallow responses to concerned inquiries,this could put you in front of a snowballs path if you are not careful. Soul Shroud mentions something along the line of where I would go but for different outcomes the next time she mentions it ask her how many people she has talked to.

Then tell her you have had enough that you are going to "clean his clock",and then tell him in front of others to leave her alone,be convincing that you are ready to do it.Her passive nature will cause her to break and reevaluate the situation.If she is hiding info from you then you can only speculate as to any role you can play in this clandestine case.Note as well she could be involved in an investigation of some sort for activity that they had the Higher up brief her on or she may have assumed that this ranking official had something to do with. I never offer to help another person with laundry unless I know how it got dirty.

what branch of service are we speaking about?
Each is different and has different ways of confronting and ending hostilities...

Either way - she can go to his supervisor - but follow the chain of command. You have no stake in the situation and must not be seen as a threat.

Work from the background and be there for her. Also, you can hang dead anomals in his wall locker and put a CS gernade in his AC unit.

It gets their attention everytime.

I will add my two cents (be sure to get back change!) :)

Staying on topic, if the person in question is a vampire who believes that they are at the top of the food chain and other humans are food. Feeding for vengence is just another feeding.

If the person has adopted a "code of ethics" or of a wiccan or similar tradition, it would be highly unethical to do such a feeding by 1) Causing harm and 2) Having it return threefold.

The choice of these is up to the person and no one else.

Rev. Ravyn

vengeance....i blive that one should take more than an eye for an eye,but there are so many more fun things to do then useing your magick,of vamperic or lycanthropic powers,use your imagention think of it as a game of chess hes made the first move now take him like the pawn he is

If thats a military, that there is always someone on higher position. All you have to do is to install some camera and a mic and to record all what that prick do to your friend. Than just go to some superior and press play.

No force and revenge is sweet.

If you must get into magick this is what I do and since I am not a Wiccan I don't believe in their tenets which is modern and for them alone.

I do something in such a way that it is an eyeopener. Perhaps causing the person inflicting the mental pain or treating the person lesser because they are a woman to reverse. I try to create a situation in which they can experience similar treatment as a way to get them to back off and make a change for the better. I consider this a good deed, lol.

Karma is a funny thing and especially if one is a spiritualist. It isn't all that cut and dried as to what will build on that in action. Sometimes one is placed in a situation to elevate someone's consciousness by taking an action. It doesn't have to be harmful in the normal sense. Bindings of various types are good too but I don't just think of magick pertaining to religious systems because it in and of itself is a system outside of religion and is used by the practitioner in their own way. It is a natural process anyone can learn to use...its just the format it takes that is individual or if it gets tied to a religion then it gets monitored with rules but that is for the individual to decide. Outside that it is just a system to be accessed that anyone can use depending on your choice of type.

Send a servitor into his dreams to speak with him in such a way that it could alter his perception and make him see what he is doing and an outcome for his actions. There are so many thinigs one can do. Whether they work, well thats another tale.

Can she not go above his head and have the matter resolved?

If she is complaining to you of issues with this guy and not able to provide you with specific details AND what this dude is doing is not against code/laws/orders, then it sounds like she is generating drama (no offense, but just calling it the way I see it).

Is this guy and officer or and NCO in command of her? If so, there is always someone to go to IF he is out of line. If he is just being a butthead, there is no harm other than irritation.

Other than that, you can still psy-out on the M-F-er and drain his ass...

You can also suggest an advocate program they have drop-in reviews she doesn't even have to give her name and if the ranking person has former notices for behaviour she will stack a case against him.If she avoids the suggestion then she may have underlying motives and she sees you as a pawn in her agenda.Paper trails are key to military related situation.I went to an NCO once about a drill sargents subtle favoritism I didn't even have to say the sargents name and two cases later the drill sargent was relocated.Yet I have also seen the hack reverse harassment scenario unfold and a good officer get smeared by the imagination of a crafty roller skater.

camera, voice record. and a good lawyer will fix it.

conjure your demons, and call for his death. It seems there is no redemption. Maybe in the next life he will learn the lesson.

if you need any advice on which would be best to call, I am easy enough to get intouch with. But i would be very remiss if i didn't agree with Soulshroude, flay his soul if you have the will to. Worms like that need to be disolved under the light of their own misdeeds.

Confuscius said: "Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves."

No one likes to see someone pushed around, however, they must stand on their own feet and maybe that is the lesson that needs to be learned... Stop, Look, and Listen... before acting on emotion...

The military has more avenues of redress than the civilian world.

He may be doing something wrong and she may not know what the violation is or how to express it. She could go to the Inspector General anonymously, the Equal Opportunity officer, the Chaplain, or to Legal Assistance.

As a former IG, I often had to deal with these kinds of issues.

For using magic or draining his energy, personally I wouldn't do it. From a Wiccan perspective, you could place a protection spell on your friend or there are way to bind someone from hurting themselves or others.

I hope all goes well for her.

Maybe you need to let her try and deal with this herself..Because if you fix this problem for her..who's to say you won't be asked to fix another one? She needs to learn how to stand up for herself and deal with bullies.

I agree with HellsLilSweetheart a little bit. She may need to do this herself. However, I truly believe in helping friends out when they are in dire need. So go for it. He might wipe the floor with you anyways becasue of the threat. See, if you send someone to threaten him and explain how you will take care of him, he may think you are just purly a mad man and in the end take you out before he has made up his mind whether or not you are serious. Be careful, but i say help a friend if she is a really good friend of yours. some people can't do things all by themselves.

if she doesnt stand up to him herself and in turn just asks for your help you can encourage her to take it upstairs (over his head) since its work related.

If I'm understanding things correctly...it seems to me that you should help her find the courage to stand up for herself.

You really should consider the three fold law.

Drain him. Drain him often. Because you really want to, and I see little downside.

Because your friend is not fully disclosing, I wouldn't go further. I sense a rescuer here (you), and your first priority should be to protect yourself.

That said, there is a lot of discrimination against women in the military, more cases all the time. They're not highly publicized, and difficult to proscecute.

As stated couple times before, and I agree, that your frined should learn the way how to stand for one self, and solve the difficulties wich are surrounding its being. That is the most beneficial, most natural way of learning how the things should be dealth with in the world in wich we live in. If that is not possible, and I do not see why not since it requiers thinking only, than I suggest that the problem should be observed deeply, until another positive possible soulution has been worked out. Slowly and cunning until success has been reached.

I do not think violence is a solution to this problem here. It is a social problem, not a blood revenge. It needs a non-degenerate aproach, in order not to generate more degenerate and harmful responses wich are only going to complicate, and not solve.

As do I.
Im not going to lie and say that my nature isnt going to agree with "intervening" a little bit as I am a VERY protective person. But you have to look at the whole spectrum. Will it do more harm than good.

Without full knowledge of the problem anything you did would be foolish.

Discloser is important in this case,if she doesn't tell you what is going in she is leading you into a dark room,cluttered with perhaps notional problems.

She should indeed stand up for herself. But unless she realizes that's what she must do on her own, it will keep happening.

Anubis, I applaud your wish to stand up for your friend. It's all very well saying she should stand up for herself, but if those of you saying that saw a friend being harassed by someone, wouldn't you want to help if you could? that's what friends do...

Addressing the ethical issue is difficult, but as I think has already been suggested, I believe teaching your friend ways of defences and perhaps a binding spell could be a good answer. You won't actually be harming anyone, and you won't be directly attacking anyone, merely protecting your friend and helping her to protect herself.

I think she's lucky to have a friend like you on her side.

I can see you're concerned for your friend but I think I would let her deal with things herself and you just be there for her.

I encourage your friend to stand up for herself because although you are bound to protect her! I believe in the three fold law and I think it can come back on you if you are not careful!

ah - i notice you are in Japan. the labour laws are somewhat different in Japan to those in tyhe UK. Ideas of Honour and ethics differ also - that's probably why we have tighter laws - we need them. the question then is a question of honour. is it honourable for him to make your friend's life a misery just because he is in a position to do so? is it ethical for him to abuse his position in such a way? he is what in this country is calleda bully, and we do not consider bullies to be honourable at all. you are not in a position to pull rank on him, nor are you physically superior, by your own admission. however, you feel that you could take him down a peg or two by fighting him on the spiritual plane, using your knowledge of the mystical arts.

if you consider it honourable to be the protector of the weak (surely within the samurai code) then not only is it ethically correct to attack him psychicaly, it is your duty to do so.

as they say over here - "Fill your boots"

I thank all of you for your advice. As it turns out after investagating the matter myself and getting a few answers out of my friend this guy was just ignorant of what he was doing and to dense and hard headed to understand when she told him what was bothering her. So as most of us that are militery and single room togeather and she used to live with him I got her out of that situation by letting her move in to my place which I recently got. I knew that something was up and thus used this thread to give me time to think it out and get the answers I needed.

okay first of all, to address all sides here....

*your friend needs to learn to stand up for herself. talk to a chaplain, a superior, whatever. ask for a transfer if it still isn't working.

*second: the wiccan rede states that you are not to harm others. what you do with that choice is up to you. you want to use bad magick on her, you might see consequences.

*third: as a psi vamp myself, sure, you can feed, but really?

..sounds to me like a copout. you wanna just hex the guy or drain him dry until he gets really ill from an energy imbalance. i say, learn how to stand up for yourself..meaning, your friend. there ain't a Job or Career out there where you don't have to stand up for yourself. running will only find her in another situation where someone senses that she's an easy "mark" and will hence try to roll over her there, also.

I'm glad to hear you uncovered what was going on, AnnibusLight~

I know the military in any country can be a difficult place to stand up for oneself... Especially as a female, it can be intimidating.

I do agree that she should find a way to stand up for herself, but at the same time, it makes me glad to know you are a really good friend. Best of luck to you both.

It's nice to see that you want to help her, but as everyone else is saying you should let her stand up on her own.
Don't do everything for her, just nudge her into the right direction.

Have your friend go to that guy's boss and report him.

I would need to understand what he is doing before I can say how to deal with it. Your friend should either deal with it, going around the person and getting help from superiors or find another job if she can't or won't do that. Life is too short to be manhandled.

This is sticky no matter which way you look at this, by all means you friends boss is wrong, but he will get his, they always do.

Do you really want to put this kind of negitive energy on yourself.

I know its tempting, trust me I do. But you must resist the temptation or it will come back on you.

Mundane means would be the best means in a case like this.

If he is casing her as much grief as you say then it should bot be hard to show the powers that be what is going on. Think out side of the box and find another way. Set him up so to speak and make sure he does what ever it is that hes been doing in front of his peers and or bosses. The next best thing for her is to just find a new job. Its a really big world and I am sure there is another job out there for her..

do believe your friend needs to deal with this herself. you could help best by helping her find the means to deal herself. remeber always what is put out will come back be it done with a god intent or a darknatured one.

the rule of the three comes to mind

mind it and support your friend as much as possible, but vdont sell out your karma on one so petty

Remember it will come back to you

Its been almost a month since this post was started. Has there been any change in the actions of your friend and the supervisor?

Well if she is passive you need to encourage her to confront him and be there by her side to give her strength. Or maybe she should find another job. There might be better ones out there for her. She doesnt HAVE to stay and take his b.s .

ah didnt catch about the military. well if there is no other option then do it your way.

In a situation such as this, "If it were me" I would just put a binding spell on him without harming him that he could not do you anymore harm....also put a protection sheild around you! The protection sheild may send everything back on him though, which would be his own fault asd you would not be hexing him, he would basically be causeing his actions to just go back upon himself.

In the above message I wrote I failed to say that your friend should do these protection methods. You could put protection around your frind by picturing a white mirror around them that is deflecting all bad negativity....

You know what? Feed off the guy, if that's your deal. Seriously. Who is going to know? Accept whatever consequences, spiritual or otherwise, that come your way and simply buckle up. Either that, or let your friend handle her own battles. I am assuming since she is military she should probably be able to hold her own mentally, emotionally, and physically, plus, if she has a magical friend like yourself on her side, then she could probably have easy access to protection spells, methods, etc..

However, I'd just walk away from it, myself. Too much dramatics. ;)