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Is there a supernatural force at work in practicing martial arts?
Is there truly a force that can be tapped into through training and meditation? Is it an ability internal to all of us that can only be awakened through intense concentration, mind over matter? Or is it all just discipline of mind and body?

First off, let me state that I've been studying both Eastern and Western martial arts for about 15 years now and have studied 5 different arts.

There is certainly a state of deep peace, power, and strength that can come from meditation and practicing kata as a moving meditation. The Eastern martial arts call it qi or chi or ki, which literally translates as "breath" or "energy", and emphasize developing the ability to relax the mind and body even under the stress of dangerous situations.

I don't believe it's a supernatural force; it's more of a getting in touch with one's own energy, coming to a peaceful point within oneself, being aware of everything in your surroundings at all times, and being able to use your energy to counter any attacking energy coming at you, whether it's with a fencing sword or using your hands.

Interesting thought.
I think there's strength inside our mind, that martial arts(among other things) can help you discover. But I do think a lot of it is just physical ability.

I'd have to agree with Serebro on this, while I haven't his experience I have some with eastern martial arts. I find my mind is clearer when I practice both the meditative side and the active side. The things that might make it seem supernatural would be heightened awareness (zanshin) and becoming instinctively aware that certain body movements indicate that a certain attack is coming.

Just discipline of body and the mind, to me.

I believe so yes. I hear that only one percent of those people are really very good, and I think that percentage would be the ones who take themselves there spiritually.

Ninjas were always mystical, legendary, even in their actual time. I've read about a scream that can kill~ I know that was Japanese, but I can't remember if it belongs to Samurai or Ninjas. Look at what some people can do with Chi. Look at Bruce Lee.

Anyway, I believe Masters are definitely magical.

If you read Bruce Lee's Way of the Fist he explains at least partially...what his Martial Art form means. Jeet Kune Do...literually means way of the fist or as he said way of the interscepting fist.he could use his chi to produce and one inch punch...Meaning he could hold his hand one inch from a person and knock them off their feet.

As a 17 year student of the arts, with both Eastern and Western under my belt...I agree with Serebro's post. In a bit of a nutshell.

To better have it explained is to train with it, and learn the methods rather than gaining rank with each belt...It is not the belt which makes you more experienced, nay the belt only holds up your pants and keeps your insides in check.

I have a friend who is very deeply into the martial arts. To him, it is a spiritual thing as well as physical. From what he's explained, I doubt there is anything supernatural involved.

What we must understand is the fact that supernatural means...A sort of possession as all that is supernatural is to be taken over by another power.

It would be spiritual, as we maintain an awareness for a deeper power, but are in control of it, and not controled by it.

i wouldnt say its supernatural forces its more being at one with yourself and mastering the arts through focus discipline and meditation

its not supernatural, its strict discipline and years of training.

Shaolin Monks can center their Chi so much that they can take a kick in the nuts and not feel it...they can be hit in the throat my a pro boxer and not feel the pain or get injured.Yes it is all in their heads and in the CHI.If you practice and train hard enough...you CAN get your body to do amazing things.Tai Chi can even make you feel better and stronger...as long as you believe you can and will be better.

Most martial arts use some form of meditation, and meditation is used either to expand the consciousness or to harmonize the mind and body. Also, many far eastern martial arts practice the movement and maximization of chi energy. So in a word, yes there is a spiritual and/or supernatural element to most martial arts.

Just looking at the Push and Pull demonstrations of Chi Gung makes you wonder.

As for the kick in the nuts, they don't simply endure the pain of the kick. A kick can destroy the testicles, there's no ignoring that. In fact, the retract their testicles into their abdomen. "omgwtfbbq" you may say, but there is no hocus pocus about that. The tecnique has been demonstrated by Monks and Indian Yogis alike. However a curiosity.

As was said before, the testicles being retracted is what allows them to be kicked without much immediate damage. It's taught be several martial arts, some schools of ju jutsu teach it.

I think Soulshroude pretty much summed it up even better that the other person I referenced. Although some of the things being ascribed to Chi (or Ki dependant on nationality) are a little over the top, but other things are in a respect true. There are techniques called vital strikes which only take the lightest tap to enduce pain, striking two can cause a line of pain from point to point, adding more adds more pain.

Now this may sound hard to believe and indeed I didn't until I was told by a sensei who I greatly admire and respect. He himself hadn't believed it until a practioner of the art demonstrated it on him. So maybe there's something to Chi as there weren't any real biological reasons for the effect.

I'm pretty sure martial arts is a form of meditation until you find your center, essence, whatever you want to call it, then project it out into fluid, controlled movements. So, I would have to say, in my opinion, no, not supernatural forces at work. Only human disapline and mental drive.

I agree it is a connection of body and mind. Focus is very important. I would say when your body and mind are one and you are drawing from your inner energy, you may also be tapping other energy around you. Some deep breathing techniques used in martial arts apply the concept of accepting enerty.

Well I believe that anyone can tap into it you just have to be trained and have discipline and consentration in order to succeed.

As a practitioner of the Martial Arts myself I know that there is some other force helping me through my meditation.

Tapping into the mind, opening doors that are usually closed, focus, meditation, martail arts help one to better understand their mind, body, and surroundings, tapping into an unknown force of sorts, the mind is a powerful tool.

no not at all i have been in karate for the longest now i had to stop cause of injurys and stuff but i dont think theres a supernatural force when useing karate its just self confidence and will power that you control your self

The Mind is a powerful object.
The Theroy Behind Meditation and most other things is that if you belive in its realiaty then it is reality

As such in Religon, Myths, Stories, and even meditation.

Ok. We're talking about mind over matter, right? Now, about Bruce Lee punching someone without actually touching them...would that not be some form of telekinesis? And is that not considered supernatural? Isn't telekinesis simply mind over matter? So does that make mind over matter...supernatural?

Being a martial arts practioner this thread pipped my interest. I don't believe there is anything supernatural in the practise at all, it is all hard work and discipline, oh yes and humility. I am sure once our resident Dan is aware of this thread he will likely make a comment.

What I find interesting about this thread is that some practioners do think there is a spiritual link and some maintain there is not........yet clearly people who hold different ideas enjoy success in their field.

Does anybody have any idea as to why this is so ?

I believe that martial arts have their purpouse in awakening ones Chi energy potential. As much one practices martial art, his Chi is getting more sensed, and with that stronger, wich is at the end opening a whole new page when it comes to practicing martial arts.

What I find interesting about this thread is that some practioners do think there is a spiritual link and some maintain there is not........yet clearly people who hold different ideas enjoy success in their field.

Does anybody have any idea as to why this is so ?

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I guess that ppl who say there is a spiritual link, really direct their excercising efforts in to exploring the deeper meaning of their inner being, and that is a spiritual link for them, they are conducting them selfs to their practices in that way.

Someone else on the other hand, is not directing the efforts toward that kind of gain, but are concentrating their efforts toward acuisition of personal strength, and abillity. Thats why they probably claim that there is no spiritual link, in reality they are not interested to reflect them selfes, and their work in that kind of idea.

I believe it is all in ones personal orientation regarding the martial art practices, wich is highly benefitial for a person, no matter how you view on it.

Very interesting thought. I'd have to say yes. I do capoeira weekly and when I come out of practice, I feel something so great and so deep within me. It is hard to explain, but there is definatly something supernatural about practicing martial arts.

Thank you for your reply alixaryon.

So, two men of equal ability go head to head in combat.

Man A....believes he practices his art with a spiritual link.

Man B....does not.

Now which one would you think would win the combat ?....and why ?

karate is simply mind over matter if you have your mind in the right setting you can do anything through meditation and staying focused on what you need to do karate is 99% thinking and the rest is skill and knowlage

I think the only spiritual link is the one of the mind being one with the body, one with the elements surouding this individual, making this person stronger, but not related to the supernatural

Well I haven’t tried kung foo with my magic …. Sounds exciting lol
Mind you as for supernatural marital arts … I have told many I fight you don’t stand a ghosts chance against me with bad lip sync lol

well i would have to say yes to this because there is alot of supernatural energy going through the body when you are doing chi and reiki as well ..

OMG Lavisbre, that was hilarious, "bad lip sinc" indeed!

Hmm, I am wondering do you think that maybe the supposed association with the supernatural, and martial arts could be behaviour supposedly caused by the intervention of supernatural beings? I mean, really??

Thank you for your reply alixaryon.

So, two men of equal ability go head to head in combat.

Man A....believes he practices his art with a spiritual link.

Man B....does not.

Now which one would you think would win the combat ?....and why ?

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I think the stronger person would win the fight, the one wich is technicly disposed in a superior way, and that might be person A, as well person B.

I do not believe that person A has advantage in anything just beacuse it is spiritualy oriented, as someone who is highly identified with that ideal might say.

The idea of spirituality bears with it self some certain idea of purity as well, wich I believe means no special advantage as well in any combat.

The winner is the one who developed it's body to become
stronger/faster/endurable, thanks to the martial arts training.

Spiritual link wich person A is cultivating, or any other link or identification/motivation person B might have, are certanly going to decide to practice strong and with results, leveled with their personal beliefs, but I do not believe that one idea has an advantage over another in any way.

It is all technical, and you are better if you can pull it out better, faster, stronger, if you are a stronger practitioner, regardless of your personal point of view.

And if you manage to discover something supernatural, like a supernatural abillity, during your practicing course, than even better for you.

alixaryon

Yes, I agree with you.

There is perhaps a case for unconscious as well as conscious spirituality.

You how they say, everything is spiritual, but most is ignorant to the fact.

The only thing wich I find to be of supernatural in practicing martial arts, is the discovery of ones Chi energie potential, wich with patient and dedicated conduct, can be eventually evolved in to a superior energie manipulation technique.

Theta, nobody said Bruce Lee could punch anyone without touching them. That's rediculous. What he could do was send someone flying from a punch, thrust from only an inch away from the target.

Bruce Lee was not at all into the energy, Chi or other. He was a straight 'train the muscles 'till it's tight like a string' kind of guy, something his physique was a testament to. Chi is mostly just a part of the more traditional martial arts, not the modern, practical sorts.

No CT,but the Cat could...at least it is said.

Im looking for a vid of him now.But in the meantime..

Enjoy.

alixaryon

Could you tell me please why you link Chi with supernatural ?

Chinese believe that when you tap into your chi that you can use your use your spirit to help fight your enemies as an extra edge in battle.

I believe it's possible to tap into unknown natural abilities by getting a deeper relationship with your mind and spirit

it is possible

just like when a person is scared
adrenaline plays a part in "increased strength"

for example
if a person is being chased by a serial killer, they will be able to run faster than usual because of the adrenaline

if we could trick our minds into thinking we're scared, guess what would happen...

alixaryon

Could you tell me please why you link Chi with supernatural ?

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Once the persons Chi potential is evoked to a significant level of realisation, the newly learned control over ones Chi can allowe one to exibit certain feats wich can certanly be described as supernatural, and those might be, controlling ones Chi to that extent where ones muscles are becoming hard as a rock or steel, with that crushing those things with no problem, or controlling it to that level, where ones body mass is becoming light like a feather, and one is able to walk over a thin paper streched in the air, with out breaking it, wich is of course for normal understandings of reality and perception immpossible, not to mentione how one can thanks to his own controll of Chi energie spinn on sharp objects fixated under ones abdomen, a spear for example, with out geting pierced, or even leaving a slightest trail on the skin. These feats are certanly to be called supernatural, and are quite familiar to Shaolin monks, of wich they are masters. Chi controll is a higher form of kung-fu. It is a vast subject as well, resulting in all kind of supernatural feats, in wich I am not exactly familiar at the moment.

Oceanne, that video looks like chi-gung to me, the very thing mentioned earlier.
Excellent find. I haven't seen this vid yet. Thanks!

I went to a taekwon-do display this morning & saw a guy punch through a regular house brick with his bare fist, before he did this he became very focussed & then channelled the chi energy to help break the brick. It was amazing stuff!

It seems to me that supernatural and spiritual are two different things, That being said I would say no, it is not due to a supernatural force.

Yes i'd agree Pandora, (sorry forgot to add this in my pervious post) The martial arts i've seen performed do not seem to have a supernatural element to them at all, defo more spiritual than anything else. There are areas of the world where people claim to take the gods or spirits into their bodies to help them achieve 'miracles' eg - walking over hot coals or up ladders of blades without getting hurt.

Hey..glad you enjoyed it!

Spiritual energy at work,yes,I agree.
Chi is an amazing thing.I have trained for years,and I know that I can accomplish things now,that I never could before I started..also,it is great for healing.Quick story..I was injured very badly(one of many) when an 1800 lb racehorse came down on my arm..RSD they said.Long story short,I secured the help of a Taoist master who,by his work with me,helped me get off the meds and after a short time,my rsd stopped progressing and took a turn for the better..Alot of power in that if you ask me.

There are no supernatural forces in martial arts. It's all in the mind and the power of suggestion. The phrase 'Mind Over Matter' comes to mind here.

That is exactly what it comes down to BYV.

martial arts is all physical and mental conditioning, nothing supernatural about that.
in fact i dont even use the word supernatural for describing the feats accomplished by martial arts masters, the paranormal, or the magical arts. it is all caused by natural forces and energies

is has to do with the push and pull of the body own fsupernatural force

I think it just comes down to energy manipulation

I agree with some of the previous statements that there is nothing supernatural in martial arts, that it is all in the mind. I guess strong terms like supernatural are usualy used to define something of great interest to a wondering curious mind so it can develope interest for it, and learn it. Nothing is supernatural indeed, but only to that measure in wich it is not familiar to us as a form of well understood knowledge. Once it is understood in full, and appliable, a person is getting an impression of monotony regarding the subject. The thankfullness of the unlimited Universe and its unlimited posibilities an ways of expression is indeed learned to be extremly apricieted in this case, by the ever wandering mind.

I have trained in Ninjutsu for 29 yrs. what I think it is, is discipline of mind and body.

isnt our supernatural force part of our brain..were all the power comes from to do all these things

Mind and body. I believe that it is solely of mind and body but through intense training it can seem as though it's 'outerworldly'

Boneyard said it well. It is all training and proper use of your chi. Although some times it seems like magic, it is not.

It is just a matter of your energy i think no hocus pocus there

The question being is there a supernatural force in the martial arts? No, there is nothing supernatural. However it is natural and super all in the same breath. Everyone can tap into this energy. All it takes is to be trained the right way.

I don't believe it is supernatural in any way. It is part of the martial art training to tap into your own inner force or spirit.. which then connects you to the universal force... nothing supernatural at all. All part of the natural process that we all can do if we take the time out to discipline ourselves and turn within to connect to our true selves.

yeah i would definately think so. There is limitless power to be tapped into inside of our minds.

TheShining1 -

Supernatural force doesn't need to come from the brain. It's possible that it could come from the heart. Or the blood, or any other part of the human body.

Hmmm, no, I don't think so. I have been practicing three different types of martial arts for 4 years now. This is all you and how well you can control yourself, nothing supernatural here.

I would have to agree with Gregory on this one. It's more like getting attuned with you more than anything else.

physical strength,meditation,and mind over matter

I agree with greg on this one. I think that although some of the things capable might be extraordinary, they aren't supernatural in any sense. It takes years to be able to do some of the things that seem impossible, but it was accomplished through knowledge, dedication, and training.

I dont think the material art itself bring it. It is more the meditation and how relaxed the mind is.

Some say that that chi everyone is speaking about is not the tool but one of the purposes of the martial arts.Let`s not forgat that all the oriental life is linked by the spirit although their gravity center is more close to the earth.

If you consider this a supernatural or just natural ability undeveloped by the common people this is just a label matter.
Chi is a reality.And martial arts it`s not the only one who develop this.

The ones who don`t recognize it as a special ability maybe they don`t because their master(trainer) didn`t teach them consciously to use it...yet.

i dislike the term "supernatural" as that implies outside of nature. many of the martial arts involve putting ones self in touch with natural forces. surely by definition this is the opposite of supernatural. they are without a doubt spiritual disciplines, and are certainly beyond the mundane world. someone who has not studied the martialarts can never do some of the things that dedicated practictioners can do. this may seem supernatural to those who do not understand what is happening, but if you were to show a television to a 17th century man, he too would see that as supernatural.

I don't like the term 'supernatural' either... It makes it seem like it's impossible or inhuman to practice martial arts.

I've been traingin in Jeet Kune Do for about 11 years now. ((That's 'Way Of The Intercepting Fist' - Bruce Lee's technique)~ it' a challenge! XD

It's about the focus of the mind, coupled with focus of the body. Nothing 'supernatural' about it.

And once you have mastered your own essence, you can be anything! Go anywhere! Move in any form you want. But you must train your mind, and even your soul a little. I mean that, as I learned, you must conquer your fears... no matter what they are. You must conquer your sadness. Any negative feelings can throw off your energy and flow~

There's so much more to it, and it's difficult to explain it in words.

but even if you have a sharped and relaxed mind in example thai chi ,what is really supernatural with that?

I don't believe there is anything supernatural about martial arts. All it is is another way to fight and or defend yourself and it takes years of training to learn.

yes there is its called your chi your enter soul

idk that chi should be classified as supernatuaral and thats all that would be in martial arts..

energy of the body in my opinion isnt supernatural in nature. that definition implys outside the realm of the tangible flesh.

My best frind is in martial arts and I believe it is nothing but disipline of the mind and body.

from the little experience i have, it's about using very natural forces - gravity, momentum, the laws of physics. legends and stories that seem to attribute any supernatural powers to it come from the observations of people who do not practice the martial arts themselves.

meditating is common for alot of material art users to be able to focus better.

A someone who teaches professionally, I don't think its anything supernatural.

It's just whatever your overall potential is, but the BIGGEST factor is how hard you work, and how much time you put into it.

Of course some people just have the gift for things they do. Not me :P

Most commonly its a channeling of CHI... its not supernatural, in fact its very natural... Chi flows thru every living thing and its just a matter of focusing it and or channeling it to increase its effects.

I don't believe there is anything supernatural about tapping into your own mind, and finding a fluid control and confidence.

not in my opinion. i think its all physical and mental. but not supernatural

I believe there is a deep power with in and a force, But is is peacefull, I agree with Serebro

The human body is perfectly capable of surpassing the limits we place on ourselves. It has nothing to do with the supernatural, just pure beautiful connection between mind and body.

I agree with RainbowPrincess. Martial arts are honed by the mind and practice of the body

it has been said by many before me with in my family that my anseters will bring strength to your battle as long as you are fighting for something that holds meaning. don't fight for because you can, fight because you need to. your ansestors are always with you. being asian myself I have been trained in martial arts to always honor my ansesters and pray to them for strength and courage to continue through each day. so yes I believe that a force is tapped into when meditaion is practiced as well as Martial arts. your ancesters choose you to do these things in my beliefe what ever you know u where destined to know they are with you when you walk the steps they once walked before you.

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