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Most cultures have a belief in a fight betweeen good and evil. So many of them are basically the same stories with only a change in the name and visual of these beings. Periodically we have beliefs in the ultimate ownership belonging to us, our humanity and decisions don't have anything to do with the influence of the light, or the dark forces... but our own judgement.

I believe people should always take ownership of their actions, and it shouldn't be blamed on not having God, or the right spiritual truth. Sure it's important to have a good moral ground. But what about our simple responsibility in being respectful towards our fellow human, animals, and life in general?

Do you think at times that ownership is taken off people and the finger is pointed to the 'forces' instead of where it should be?

We can answer this without offending any religion. For it never is religion being the problem, it's the people that do things in the name of religion as justification that give it the bad wrap.

Absolutely, that is why I have never felt that believing in a higher power is such a bad thing whether they are true or not since most religions practice being good to your fellow man.

However it is true that sometimes when things go wrong many use their "God" as a punching bag and others may see it as "there must be a reason".

I think its rather sad that as a whole people can't just practice being good to one another without having to have a belief system. Yes some do but not nearly enough.

we have free will, so therefore we should be responsible for our actions.

Ownership needs to be joined with education and example before it can be seen as a learning tool for responsibilty.

God is the ideal scape goat for fanatics and the power hungry.

I think that sometimes people blame said forces for their actions.

But I believe we have free will to do what we will, although some would debate that topic.

I will have to agree with Sinora on this one.

People need to take the responsibility for their actions, we do have are "free will." No one can make us do anything that we don't want to.

Why blame a higher power when your mind is the one that made the choice?

People try to find the easiest way out.

I agree that sometimes people can use their "God" as a scapegoat for anything negative that's happened to them. It's just so much easier to blame something on someone that may or may not exist instead of on the real one to blame, which is usually themselves. So, in that way, I can see how having no belief in a "God" would be a good thing.

I can't really make a decision, seeming that it is both at times.

Yes most definitely.

At times it is the same as people deliberately killing other people and then claiming "temporary insanity" as their excuse - nothing but a cop out.

My personal belief is that at all times you are responsible and accountable for your own actions. Which is not to say that you can't be subsumed by and act out another's will. However at some point you would have done something to freely relinquish yourself. But that's an argument for another thread ;)

I feel that people blame other powers because they feel shame that something would happen to themselves.

Personally I don't have a belief system and I tend to blame myself for everything. Granted this may be almost condescending to myself, but its better than blaming something that had nothing to do with it.

I don't think it matters if you have faith or not if you are the type of person to blame others you will just find someone to blame on the other hand if you take responsiblity for your self then you do that with or with out a God.

Personally, I think that one of the most important things we as individuals can do is to learn to take responsibility for our own actions. It is far too easy to say, "Satan made me do it," or "I'm a victim of cirumstance," or "My socioeconomic standing provided me with little opportunity." Circumstances do arise which may not be ideal; but at every moment, we have a choice. The further along one particular path we go, the more we may limit our choices -- but even toward the very end, we have the ability to say, "I don't want to go this way anymore," and turn around, or take a side road. The problem is that we are creatures of habit, and sometimes we'd rather stay in the comfortable rut we've made for ourselves than do something to get out of it (which seems like an awful lot of hard work). Blaming a deity for your problems, even passively ("It must be god's will"), is a choice to deny responsibility. That's what I think, anyway. Feel free to disagree. ;)

I believe we all should take responsibility for our own actions.
That said, some people need to act out things knowing they have a 'faith' which can give them the ability to succeed.

I think it is a lazy man's vocation to blame the forces around him. However, I do believe in karma :)

Yes I think at times ownership is taken off people and the finger is pointed to the 'forces' instead of where it should be. As Abstract stated above, I also feel that people blame other powers because they feel ashamed. Naturally being humans we all have some sort of flaws. We make mistakes intentionally & unintentionally. Society puts great pressure on people at times. So for some I think they find it more comforting to hide behind forces, regligion, or such. It's easier to do that than to face their shame.

Everyone is responsible for thier own actions and cant blame them on anyone or anything but themselves

The finger should be pointed at the Forces, beacuse the Whole is their own creation, with their own will of regulation of the Whole.

Every part of the Galaxy is regulated by one. When compared to them, this human life, or other, is nothing.

The concpet of good and evil are invented ideas, implanted in to the human mind as a tool of keeping you entangled, disabled from Rising, there where you Will to.

Rules are decided by the Forces, so they laugh as well on how hard the rules are(such is the nature of their position, and the final regulatory goal).

You might blame, and feel like pointing the finger on him, or her, them, or your fault, but the whole fact is that you cannot possibly point it on your self or them, since you are all just limited in your choices/bodily/mental expressions, since those same ones are decided, by the Forces, and their own regulations, their own rules for their own small reasons/perceptions.

To point the finger on them(other ppl), or my self, is the wrong thing indeed(no matter what the circumstances might be), for I/them(ppl) as things with incomplete vision are not more than equal to a cemented block wich is in a free fall.

With a limited vision there is no free will, there is no true responsibility, no matter how emotionaly it might be proper to assign it to me or them.

Why is there no such thing again?

Beacuse the Rules are not decided by you, since you are just a part of that by other created Whole, process. You really have no free will. You are a falling brick of any event wich pushed you at the first place.

Point Finger at the Forces.

You can hold on enough, stubborn.

And bend their rules, there, where they slowly fade away as a concept of "reality" wich is expressing its life, its "freedom".

You can see the Elder Gods behind the veil. The Elder Decision Makers. The Regulators of Your Finger. The Eternals.

There they are vulnerable, there they die, beacuse you have no fingers any more to confuse you with.

But only Eyes, and Will.

There you can finish the game off in any possible aspect of your self/your mind, and decide, what will go out for you and the Whole you have choosen for your self, forever(yes, you can form a completition for your self).

With out any other individual regulatory expressions to opress your own individual expression, on this ultimate point, beacuse now, you can see them all, the whole "Forces", and their pathetic clothings.

and POOF!

Another Unlimited Dome has been created.

One more among many many many already.

And it is right.



Knowledge about everything is readily avalible. Why is it not given?

It is all about position in the whole, and who will regulate it.

It is good to keep you confused with half-philosophies, and to teach you how you need to take responsibility(there is no such thing in the chaotic whole of interactions, regulated by other), to move your finger here and there as a process of control.

So the positions can be kept with out other competitive skilled individuals, wich now threat to be equaly big.

The power/knowledge of these positions are unimaginable to a ordinary human.

They contain the whole Will of the creation, and what is going on trough out them exactly.

I think people should be held acountablt for their actions, but it is reasonable to take other things into consideration based on the severity of the incident.

Education can certainly help people understand the result of their action and how to avoid their action in the future. Which one of us has never benefitted from kind policy.

At the simplest level it may be going to traffic class instead of paying a fine for speeding or perhaps being forgiven by a loved one.

The seriousness of the act changes the response and the response should match the act.

alixaryon, so you believe that if someone chooses to lie and steal, it's not their fault?

I agree people should the wrap for the things they do...

everyone has a choice...

Lagniappe, that perception is totaly off the point I made earlier.

But to consider the question of yours as well, than I guess that, if it would be their fault really depends on the circumstances they are in. Who will blame them if they are successful?

The whole governments of the world are commiting thefts toward the people during their whole lives, for the benefit of the few, but no one is noticing them, and governments with that are producing those same liars and thiefs.

Now Point the Finger at them(liars and thiefs), since they are the "right" ones to be blamed for "their" acts, not the circumstances wich created their environment long time before they were born, and with that born in regulatory corrupted environment wich decided their lives according to the coordinates/neighborhood in wich they were born/lived, from where circumstances influenced them further.

Fault is relative, as the role of the one who will make it in wich way.

I as well think that is of great importance to understand why have they stolen at the first place?

Many steal beacuse they need to survive.

There are many thiefs and liars out of a right motive.

Not to mention again that they realy do not lie or steal out of their own choice, but it is the brick that is falling, pushed by some other event in their lives.

The fact is that there will be always those that would steal, and thats is how the things are.

It is really unavoidable.

To ask is it ok to lie or steal? the correct answer wold be; Purify the sistem.

Beacuse it is a social problem only, not something to question as ok or not ok.

It needs help, it needs reformation of "regulatory authority", the servants of the few.

But my question was not about the 'system', or the governments... but godly forces. If it was about government, it wouldn't have been allowed in this forum :)P

My posts are exactly examples and answers of those questions wich you have asked, Lagniappe, on few levels of the exampled forces trough my perception, higher or lower forces.

Answered on many leves.

If these examples do not fit/reach in to the explanation of the question wich was asked by you, if they do not touch you the way you have imagined that the answers on your questions should, than feel free to erase them.

To sum it all up, since my expression is indeed very difficult to be understood, and the examples stated, than my answer to the question asked, simple as it is; The Forces.

Beacuse the Forces are indeed responsible for what is happening in the reallity of the people, wether it is good or theft.

Beacuse people are influenced by the higher things and their politics directly.

I am just letting you know, this is definitely not about about worldly forces, but other worldly. It has to be about that, or this whole thread would not be in the right category, or allowed in any category on VR. We are not to get into politics here.

Still... I don't think people's circumstances can always be blamed for committing crimes. If that were the case, I'd be a lost cause. Growing up in a house of escaped convicts, and more than I would ever care to share online... I know from my own life, that you always have the ability to choose rightly. You don't have to steal. There are always programs, shelters, and other routes.

While I do believe in a higher power, whatever that may be, I hold myself responsible for my own actions.

We are ALL responsible for our own actions and the choices we make in life. That's the one freedom that can never be taken away from us as individuals, choice.

Sometimes I see people place blame elsewhere because they don't want to deal with a situation or admit to their own f'ups.

Whey you say other wordly forces, are you thinking in tems of people blaming their actions due to hearing voices, devil made me do it, god told me do it, demonic possesion or are you talking more about suicide bombers claiming they are doing holy work.

There is no such thing as free will, at least in an absolute sense.

All absolutist arguments fail because shite is more complex than white or black. and that doesn't mean I'm proposing the gray area where there is no responsibility taken by the individual.

Here's one link: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/freewill/

but wiki is easier to understand:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will

We are not alone, we are the other.

forces make the guidelines and people tend to change or inturpet them as they see fit to their own needs. so my judgement is PEOPLE

I wanted to make a comment on the gray areas, and free will. When we are children, we tend to see things as being black or white -- as we get older and gain more life experience, we grow to see things more as shades of gray. Some people don't, but many of us do. Having said that, believing that our lives are our own responsibility, not the playings of "the forces" is not to say that everything is black and white. Is is ALWAYS wrong to steal? What if your circumstances are such that your children are starving, and no one will give you any food because of the way you look (or some such scenario)? Would you steal? Would it not be a greater wrong to let your children starve? Now...such an extreme situation is most likely the result of a long line of bad choices made along the way...the individual could have chosen, at any time, to make a different choice; but there are other, less extreme examples. In my opinion, it is our responsibility to choose among the shades of gray, but to realize that for each action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Excellent? I too feel people need to take ownership of their choices. However Hx shows religion has been used for war and murder, such as the Holy wars and the crusades, burning of midwives who were considered witches by the church. Humans have used religious reasons for man's inhumanity to man for ages.

You gotta ask yourself sometimes if the people that do horrible things, such as suicide bombers, really believe that they are doing god's will or do they do it for other reasons.

Let's contrast a suicide bomber to a member of a cult that marries adults 14 year old girls. The suicide bomber may well do it for the rewards in heaven, but you gotta think that he really believes he is doing god's work. Otherwise he is just a murderer of innocents. The cult member that marries a 14 year old girl because the cult leader told him it was the will of god is probably different. There is no real pain or risk to himself, only pleasure. I think he is using god's will as an excuse for the act.

ahh that old chestnut...suicide bombers...

they have been brained washed into thinking it is the act of Ali to do these things...

I have studied many religions and now where does it say anything that you could say was kill yourself to prove a point...

Darned good quetion Temptress!

Some religions will exile one to bad places for suicide. Some will exhault them for their sacrifice. Most frown upon killing inocents.

Our own congress will present the medal of honor postumoulsy to one that exhibited sacrifice beyond the call of duty at great personal cost. Jumping on a grenade to save other at the cost of your own life.

Giving of oneself for others would be considered a great sacrifice, a noble act.

Is it the great Mohammed Ali (float like a butterfly sting like a bee), OR Allah? :P

I don't think it has to do with the forces of good or evil at all. I think it is all personal choice.

How many of us have had evil thoughts on killing or harming someone, but our sensibilities take over and instead we just have hateful throughts.. rather than following through with our fantasies.

There are those that are brainwashed into things, but even so, they have a choice to do it or not.

I am an avid church goer, devout Christian, Theology student and all that jazz. I too often hear people talk about their bad choices and linking it to the 'devil'. I have never felt that way about myself. I feel good about church because I just do. I am not there for fear of 'going to Hell' or to keep the devil from take my reigns again. I feel the bad choices I have made belong to me... and it is up to me to reconcile with those decisions and move forward.

I think we all need to step up and take resposibility for are own actions. Whenever something bad happens to us the first thing we do is look for someone or something to blame so we dont have to deal with the guilt. Unfortunately the higher powers end up taking the brunt of it.

i think our hubris as humans often makes many of us feel that we are "above" certain things and why we are so prone, as a species, to point the finger outward and blame others.

bumpage... hoping for more input :)

I think we have to be able to take responsibility for our actions, but like someone else wrote is it so black and white?
One persons right is another's very wrong.

People who do things to hurt one another can only blame themselves for their actions especially if other forces such as a police officer is called to intervene to solve the issue and sometimes it doesn't workout the your advantage but to the laws advantage. I hope I made sense if not please let me know

I do believe that people try to state they are not responsible for their action due to higher powers but I think we are all responsible what we do

Well I would have to say that I agree with Muli. People should take into account thier own actions.

One person's right may very well be another person's wrong... but only one of them has real sense then.

I agree with the one about in tis matter

No religion condones (??) suicide. Even in islam, but dying for a cause is not suicide therefore ok. weird logic, but whatever.

I think people chose to stop seeing in black and white. It's easier to see in shades of grey, but in the end harmful acts are still just that just as helpful acts are still just helpful. You have the free will to pick to stay in the black and white, but pressure (pier, laziness, etc) changes us as we get older. In the end you still have to account for your actions to someone whether it be yourself or a god.

Depends on the circumstance. I could give several examples of "the lord works in mysteries ways" speals, but I won't. Far too often, we hear these anecdotes of the basic term "gotta blame somebody". But if there really is no one to blame for minor or sometimes major events. Then that almight finger will always hits its mark on the supreme almighty finger.

Note from God "Don't make me come down there!!"

On a side note, I do have a very special journal piece partaining to this very thread.

Letter From God

I believe people are not forced to do bad things its what they chose to do. I believe religion is only there to give us morals, and using God as a scapegoat is just ridicoulus. I higly doubt God would make you do horrible acts.

I believe your life is what you make it but all too often people blame someone or some thing for their misfortunes in life. It's probably easier for some to blame another than to accept the responsibility for themselves.
It's also funny that a lot of people that blame some otherworldly power for their misfortunes, don't even believe in those otherworldly powers until they need someone or something to blame.

When something causes one person harm and others catch wind of these stories they begin to fear that particular object or act. They believe that everyone will get hurt if they use this.

The other explanation i have is when someone simply doesn't agree with something they influence others to think it is wrong as well.

The simple fact is that people run from fear and don't know how to judge things for themselves.

All forces are natural and come from the same place, no matter what religion you are.
So how can you seperate it like it is a mixed pallet of good and moldy cheese?

The answer is the People.

well said twistedfates

People should be held responsible for their actions... To hide behind a curtain of anything is cowardly.... The battle between good and evil is a battle we fight everyday... It IS our choices that defines what the outcome is...

Personally I think too many people have excuses for things that happen. Instead of owning up to when they have made a wrong choice or done something inappropriately they are busy looking for the next to blame for their actions. Think its about time people learn how to step up and accept who they are and the mistakes that they make.

well basically i believe that we naturally have the free will to do as we please but i hate when humans find the easy way out and blaim others for there actions that clearly they did on there own. immaturity to say the least.

People Should take action for there decisions

Regardless of what forces my exist...people are still responsible for their own actions. Nobody has ever been excused for listening to the voices in their head.

But if there was no belief system would we have any idea how to act ? Even we have no way of knowing what it the correct way.

"Some of those that want forces - are the same that burn crosses"

I think you hit the nail on the head! People do tend to cower behind their religion, and their hgiher being(s). People are still the ones who create the actions - who pick up the guns, who write the words.

To not accept responsibility for one self caould be considered a crime against their religion - the true power is to say I turned away from my spirits or my faith, and accept that I am not perfect - and my actions represent what I, and I alone did.

I've always belived, the choices I make are my own. But there are time that I feel my decisions have been 'guided'. Not by some guardian angel or some other higher power. Rather a deeper inner power or intuition.

"But if there was no belief system would we have any idea how to act ?"

I think having a 'system' is important, but you can have it and not take the focus off ownership. It is always up to you. Your belief system gives you your convictions... it's up to you to walk that walk, and when you don't- it's back on you.

Personally I just follow the morals I was raised on and they follow no specific belief system. I think everyone has the base idea of what is right or wrong.

We absolutely know. We can ask ourselves a couple questions:

1. Would I want this to happen to me?
2. Is this going to hurt an innocent person? If so, is it for the 'common good'.
3. What are my intentions?

People attempt to release themselves from the responsibility of their actions all the time.

Whether it be a role playing game, a anit-depressant drug, or a rumored backwards message on a song, those who act out always are looking for a way to deflect the blame.

It takes far more courage to have ownership.

yes indeed it does take courage and fortitude to stand up and say i did it,i am to blame.I believe we all should hold ourselves responsible for our individual actions.It seems far too easy for humans to tend to look for that poor lil' scapegoat to hang all their guilty blame on nowadays.Gone are the days when one would hold themselves accountable...

Too many out there do unbelievably evil acts for their own brand of higher truth and it really is becoming a big problem even in todays day and age.

Sorry for the rant but the devil made me do it ;)

I say don't get caught!

there are many motals that live life as a routine.., work, home, home, work. And at the same time, there is this wor between the good and the evil, as today, evil is ahead, (sad to say) because the system is controlled by the evil forces.

theres alot of good and evil

The manifistation of good or evil in each individual always seems best described as both aspects within a person, constantly fighting for dominance.

The tools used to battle on behalf of one side or the other come from our family, friends, enemies, and environment.

Sooner or later, one aspect overcomes the other, but depending on the situation, dominance may swing back.

An example, a mob assassin performs the evil acts of murder, but at home is a loving and caring father and husband. Is he good or is he evil?

Yes.

beliving in a higher power is never a bad thing

belief in the higher power isn't bad but the belief that that is an excuse to be an ass is a bad thing

People are completely responsible for all of their actions. Though our "main goal" or what will come after life might not be completely up to us, we have free will and a brain.

People should be responsible Ax just not in their head but in their souls. Whatever happen to having ethics and morals. Maybe it is the way people are ways to be or belive but like many side we should know blame it on others or our religon. That is plain stupid and silly to think someone should be blamed for your wrongs.

LadyElectra,

You bring up an interesting side of the discussion that we can address.

You asked, "What ever happened to ethics and morals?"

Ethics is how one differentiates between what they believe to be right and wrong.

Morals stems from society based rules that govern correct behavior.

These all change based on the individual, their culture, their upbringing, their core society, etc.

The Maori of New Zealand practice cannibalism. To them it is both moral and ethical to take part in the eating of human parts.

To the typical Westerner, this is against our established morals and our ethical code.

It comes down to who gets to define what "evil" is and who sets up the rules to be or not be "evil."

Thanks for stimulating my response. (I loved Values and Ethics when I was in college).

I think we should all be resposible for our own actions for sure. God has nothing to do with the amount of horrible things people do to each other. People do that. The only things I can see that are caused by some higher force is maybe the weather to some degree but even that we have adjusted because of the amount of crap we put in our atmosphere that is messing with an ecosystem that once was perfect.

We are all responsible, even when others step in our lives. We have free will. Everything we have done in our lives has brought us to this moment.

Thank you to all for sharing their appinings on this manner

I agree with Meanmelissa..
we all have free will so we are responsible for our own actions.

Still say that people need to quit finding blame all around them on the things that they do.. and learn how to grow up and accept the responsilities of their actions. In an ideal world everyone would stop and think to the themselves asking the morally correct questions before they do something but that simply is not fact. The fact of the matter is that some people feel the need to create drama.. it is what moves them most. Therefore they create it.. and instead of stating the facts as to why this has been done they move to blame something else. It is just another way to keep the drama flowing so to speak. No offense to none is intended.. just my opinion.

I agree with you Ladygoddessaries, if you do something bad and horrific you only have your self to blame and there for should take responsibility for your actions.

Well, I think for some people it is easier for them to blame other entities rather than to take the consequences themselves.

people should take responsibility for their actions and stop trying to blame others

but that wont ever happen

Do you think at times that ownership is taken off people and the finger is pointed to the 'forces' instead of where it should be?

We can answer this without offending any religion. For it never is religion being the problem, it's the people that do things in the name of religion as justification that give it the bad wrap.

My opinion exactly.

Even if there are forces and that we can't control everything, certain things are caused with our own actions and we tend to do the mistake of wanting to blame something to not feel responsable for our actions.

It is way easier to blame some unseen force then it is to say I did it. I think we do need to take blame for our own mistakes so we don't keep making them

I blame my pc all the time ... but yes it really is down to human error.

But aren't mood swings controlled somewhat by the moon etc?
I blame atmospherics.

imagine how much would be acomplished if no1 was ever blamed or credited

A person who has been brought up around religion tends to have a better chance at developing good morals due to it being tought to them, a person who isn't tought morals knows no better, is it the religion or is the reponcibilty of those who raised the persons. For example middle east children are taught from birth to hate their enemies and kill them for it is as their god wishes, if they know no better how can they be judged for their actions later in life, its a complex thing.

i agree entirely - you have summed up my philosophy perfectly.

I think that things that occur good or bad the ultimate choice is made by the person. Hot by the religion the represent. I think people are to easily corrupted by power and make bad choices.

people have free will. They chose do what they want and they should take responsibility for it

It is true that people have free will, but before they attain an age at which they are capable of exercising their free will, they are influenced, instructed, and taught everything they know, and it is usually someone with their own established set of beliefs. Thus, this person's ability to exercise his "free will" is already tainted with someone elses opinions on what is right and wrong.

This "rearing" is what has the greatest influence on their choices and even affects their ability to exercise free will.

If a baby is raised in an Eskimo village, and they turn 21, their view of life, their beliefs, their decisions (free will) is going to be based around the morals and ethics that were established by the tribe, NOT by pure human free will. There is no such thing.

ok I'm a bit confused but i think I can honestly say yes the finger is always pointed at GOd God why did u make me like this when it's ur own fault u eat so much, God why did this happen when u know perfectly well it was ur BIG mouth or ur own curiosity that drove him or her away. I mean we always take things for granted and we always want what we can't have, and we always ask for god when we're in a bad situation asking for his mercy for his grace for him to keep u safe but.. when things are going good in ur life u never take the time to be thankful atleast thats what I've always heard and that is true for many ppl. not being hypicritical or anything just stating what I've experinced and what I've been through..

Its true! I do respect the Law of Karma which rule both the Darkth as well as the lightst. We must be self judge to our own each acts done so that in future we do refrain from the wrong acts. and even our thoughts are the acts which try to access wrong things and unknowingly doing this we break the rules of the dark and change our resolve making elements our pain wall in far future.

I dont how to respond to this but to say that I agree with everyone that had some thing to say

I believe the blame lies within each and every person's actions, not with some force that has no proof of existance.

but everyone has a belief in something be it a god or a tree or buddah

Everyone should take responsibility for their own actions. We should own the wrongs and the rights that we do in life. Blaming anyone, or thing other than our selfs is just silly.

"you" make it what it is, and "you" make what you want.. Yes, karma... If you cant deal with what you might do, dont do it. to each your own.

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