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To many, the concept of God is too much to believe in or even try to understand. I for one don't really find it all that hard. I think God is the universe made manifest. God is the avatar of all. Think of the parts that make up existence as His DNA. With so many amazing things working together in perfect balance, why would the universe itself not achieve consciousness - a consciousness beyond anything we could ever hope to fully comprehend. If you can believe that a computer could achieve intelligence, why not the universe?

Please share your thoughts on what I have just said. How crazy do you think I am? Who agrees with me?

I do. I agree with you fully. Unfortunately, I think this website won't really respond to this post because vampires are somehow against God. I don't see why though. Anyways, the intelligence of the universe is visible by the way everything happens in such an amazing order. You can plainly see the way it works by picturing one person's life. Full of coincidences, chances, etc. And it always leads to something greater. We all know this. Is this what you were looking for? Or did I misunderstand?

I think it's as valid a concept as any other that's ever been proposed... In terms of trying to validate exactly what "God IS".

Ultimately "God" is whatever you need it to be... Be it a place to source your faith... Something to believe in... Or something to vent your hatred against, depending on your own personal view.

God is a theory. An idea of what MIGHT exist. I try to stick to my roots and not let the masses change my viewpoint on the experiences i have in this life. I'm not saying God doesn't exist but I haven't found anything to make me believe otherwise.

Speak for yourself ~Alexa910~, I for one am not against the "god" presence. The interpretation of what you are mentally working with...Would be a regular stereo-typical response to the light vs dark subject of conversation.

I am a Universal Alchemist. I understand the aspect of the Higher-self conciousness more then most. You may call this Higher
self "god", "allah", "jehova", "yhwh", "god in jesus" or any other prefered orthodox or unorthodox name in the book.

Let us journey into a new area of conversation. A fact that the vampire works with energies. This we know. But, where do these energies come from? A good assumption would be the Universe. Humans have this energy. It sustains them. They live for it. What makes the human any differant then the stereo-typical vampire? Both have the need to feed. Both can live prolonged lives IF they know what they are doing. Oh wait, the human cannot sustain themselves off of just blood alone.

What does this have to do with the "god" aspect, well...Since the vampire needs to feed off of the energies of others, this energy would come from that higher source. Humans have that higher source that vampires may not have...Which may give the assumption that the vampire does loath "god" because they cannot sustain this energy that "god" gives to the humans? A jeliously trait mayhaps?

The Universe has an infinite supply of energy that manifests at all times. This energy is freely given. The vampire needs more of this energy then the human does because the vampire is more intune with the Universe then the human is. Call it a spiritual awareness if you will. The higher the conscious goes into the understandings of the universe, new levels are opened. Call it the Kaballah. The vampire is naturally atuned to this atmosphere, which makes them..."closer to god." if you believe this concept.

I believe in an ultimate source... The Mayans called it the Hunab K'u, which is basically all that is, was and will be. I tend to shy away for the term "god" and what it represents, but I think that's because of all the years of social conditioning to believe that "God" is a male.

:)

~Lippy

When someone says "God" they tend to think everyone understands that concept. It is a title and not a name of anything. God could be numerous things or nothing at all. Some call energy, God. Free energy, all that there is; god energy.

I have heard the math of it pertaining to some sort of consciousness behind how everything works that we think of as reality and physical. It was astronomical in every way that there is some organization or consciousness behind it. I feel that it needs no worship quite frankly because if it did we wouldn't be bickering on how to interact with it in the proper way and who or what it is. Do I believe in "something', yes I do but I don't think it is personal.

It does say that humans were created in the image of God. Does that mean that the 'image' is energy? And that humans are 100% connected all the time with the 'multiverse-universe', but some humans are less aware that they are and live happy ever after.

God are/is the reason of most ancient/modern wars and by extension the result of our forged path along time/space, may it be by the human proclaiming divinity as god/king or the omnipotent, omnipresent and omnisapient illustration of it, it has influenced and propelled human path until present times, so even if its not real, the concept of one is one latetively present in the human nature and history throughout every civilization in dated time, in other words it is very REAL in our natural actions. Goverments, leaders, Shamans, managers, cacique, generals and teachers and even the kid that won 1'st place are/is micro influence of what a god is in the social aspect of the concept pertaining to it. The order itself is the leading of a selected individual, anarchism is destruction because there is no leader, everyone does whatever at will, but when there is a voice their is an order, and in human existance the concept of order is GOD in every or any case in the concept of the word.

You say, "If you can believe that a computer could achieve intelligence, why not the universe?"

Computers are programmed by humans. The analogy to god theories is apt: Garbage in, garbage out.

Wow touchy post,

God percieved by me is more of a spirtual finding of knowing the knowledge of what and why are we here for. Religion based I believe that a power so great that helped form what we are today, An existance that puts emotion within some who live by the laws written and cherished by those who believe.

But this would also apply to those who believe in their own god or being in which they structure their life.

Know I know others have their own belief on what God is or the myth behind such a being. Man has used the name of god to fight wars, entrust others with immortality and has been a quest of humans to find the truth if such a being exists.

We all walk the journey in our everyday life here on this planet. The need to know that something greater is a concept of the fear of death. for if life is given proof that such a being in any faith could or does exist, than we may ponder that life will still be in regards after the transition of death.

Spirtuality on all forms have goverened man since the time of thought. Gods of every class from native Americans to greek gods or eygptian. The faith in which life was given and may keep on giving as this body disolves back to earth.

I think the reason many people find it hard to believe in God is because in today's day and age religion is too humanized. For example, no offense to any Jesus believers, but why take a subject like religion, that is suppossed to be supernatural and above all human possibility and then go and say well this guy Jesus died for our sins and is our lord? Its too humanized. People want to believe in a higer power, not someone who actually walked the earth.

Jesus was the son of God. The Trinity is complicated and it requires faith in the supernatural to buy it. This is what I mean by garbage in garbage out. Humans create these stories in order to explain to themselves what is incomprehensible. The Greeks and Romans did it with the Olympians, and so has every other culture created their own pantheon of gods and fools.

People look around and say, Well there has to be a plan. Look at everything and how it all works. It can't be an accident.

Yes, it can. The spark of life, the biodiversity on this planet could all be fluke. This doesn't make it less special. If anything, it makes it more special, more our responsibility to care for it and enjoy it while we're here, cause nobody nowhere is doing it for us. We are our own gods, our own destiny is in our hands.

Mr. Soulshroude, I only said that to see if anyone would bother reading it, and if they did, how they would react. You went a little over the edge. I'm sorry, but I don't think I was asking for your opinion.

~910~ you have a personal message waiting in regards to your reply to my opinions pertaining partially to your post.

Whether or not harshness comes with the territory of debates, opinions, or viewpoints on the concept of god or any other areas of subject; Society calls it as they see it. The subject of deification, religion and or Universal intelligence is always a scrutinized thing. Most shun it...Some have faith in it. But all seem to argue their sides regardless whether or not anyone else listens to their babble.

There will always be an intelligent energy surrounding the Universe whether we debate it, or opinionize it. If only the non-believers would actually try to understand where the faith bringers come from. Then the two would get along a bit better.

The whole conceptualization of a god in every society have brought us to the place we are standing, it has brought many many good things and others not so well to relook, but as I always say we are just too young as a specie, and we have to learn everything by the hard way, many of this influence keeping us from looking through a better path is religions,theories: theologies itself, the selfishness of clossing into one thing fanatically, everything in excess is detriimental we all know this, to much feeding of your beliefs can make you blind and with a blinded society of different sorts of blindness is hard to not step or crash against something sometimes along the way. God is order as i resumed previously, whithout order or a higher guidness/faith or ideal we are animals, killing each other and just surviving out of complete savage, even the subcultural groups of natives and tribes have their beliefs and a higher leader or shaman withing the group that communicates the message from one side to the other. God/entity/theory is our control, leaders/prophets/scientist are the messangers and we are the fullfilment of a plan/vessel within every society/deity and rules we live in. If we had less gods or more open religions and scientific community we would have a more efficient nature/outcomes in the world w elive in,That ISSSSSSS discarding the corruptive interest of man in powers of course... =P

To me there has to be a reason and a higher being that created everything .Personally I am pagan and believe in the gods and goddesses .

Theology is a firm field for individuals who are so consumed by the theories of life beyond death, that they struggle within themselves against that certain fear that something higher then themselves may save them from ultimate distruction.

Those who cannot cope with their daily/nightly duties usually search for those higher consciousness' that they sometimes forget to look within themselves for the strength to endure. Instead, they ask for the strength instead of realizing that it had been inside them the whole time.

Thus the concept of the god of all, the Universal manifestation of something more powerful then life itself comes into play for the co-dependant individual to bring to themselves a mental state of comfort unto that higher consciousness.

All in all, in lamens terms...It is merely an excuse for those who cannot cope with daily/nightly life by themselves alone. Self doubt.

The human race have since beginning needed to have something to belive in. Often something like an god because it make their lifes more easy to handle if they feel there is something they think take care of them. In my book it is a weakness. I dont intend to offend anyone by that statement but it is however my opinion and i have right to express that aswell. The concept of god is there just to make people to think they dont need to take full responsibility for themself because there is a god that lead them. It is a basic groundplate of human behavior and thinking. And therefore it is a weakness.

In times the belief in a god was determined when something happened in life for a reeason or was thought to be acts of gods. Valcanoes, the sun and moon rising. yet than society moved to the limits on evolution and something must have create the life here on this planet.

we think the need of such thoughts for a god is no longer valued, yet we see in the cultures off society today, many still clinge to the thought of help from the gods and many new are joining the folds of this movement.

Idealogy, in my thoughts will always lose in the thoughts of someones faith. Socialogy shows this on many levels of human tendencies.

whether right or wrong ones personal belief in a god will never be shunned by others interpatations of such faith. we all at some times have gained or lost faith in the god of our lifes structure and will continue untill the time of our death.

It may be that or the abuse of an individual within the society to call for power, when you are a youngling you don't know this kinds of things, you just go along with your raising, weather you wnted or not it leaves an impression in you, you either go against it or support it later on, it is a struggle because you think you are doing something wrong, but religion at young age is something very hazardous and is also the best way to have a group controlled, Some individuals in history have abused of this power to control, Im not goign to mention the biggest group but i can say egyptians have done so, Romans also until the christian religion were taking over the whole empire, they were prosecuted but the religious group prevail eventually taking down the whole politheistic vision of Romans, but before that happened they did accepted many many gods of every culture, for the economical aspect of having many people of different culture under a power, there are many Roman temples with: zodiac, roman, griek and egyptians imageries of gods. Where can you see this same behavior of accepting different culture and religion in present times, you tell me, it couldn't be more obvious..But it will fall the same way because not everyone wants to be in the same soup.

I don't think you're crazy. Crazy is saying you couldn't possibly be right, because what you believe, doesn't match my own, and therefore, you must be wrong.

Which, btw, I am undecided on the idea of a sentient universe. It might be, it might not be...but I do believe there is Something around us, and people call it all manner of names, believe and disbelieve in it. I like to think it's what some call God, and beyond that...I don't worry too much until the various "fan clubs" start waving guns at each other. I prefer to avoid any cross fire or direct line of fire myself.

:)

Well it is said that we are God, that we are made of everything and that is God as well. That God is a part of us all.

With the idea of reincarnation and mapping our lives out before we get here, we are definitely our own God, deciding what we are to experience and learn this time around.

catseye, the universe might well have created itself. Bloodmother, In my views Jesus was not the son of God, that is just a story, however Jesus was Mary Magdalene s husband. Also was a father to any unborn child, Sangreal.

However as this is not about that,

God did not creat anything, he is a fictional character in the story of human kind but it was'nt always this way. I believe in the science, there is far more evidence to suggest this matter. I find it completly absurd in my own opinion.

Science in some aspects are great, yet science keeps getting a twist in therios much like speculations of gods and faith.

Formed created, this is life and the matter is society will always reach for something to believe in and will continue the search for truth and religion.

Forgive me dominars, but,

Where ever there is faith there will be war and death, also corrupt people wanting power in that area.

We were not made, we evolved from little tiny organisms. It has been proven.

True, yet aspects of science or on faith based idealogy are tow different realms in which one can not see the other.

Organism that were created from metors or other logically ideas here on the earth. but this opens doors for other realms talked about in this forum of life on other planets.

But faith is the belief in which one hopes or believes that there is somthing else we have yet to see. The fear of death is made up alot on this subject. faith has been and will contunie to be a part of his world no matter what logic says or proves.

Also faith you said will always have war and death, yet lets just step back and see the science of the weapons that man has created to protect themselves and to dominate. Just forgot to add this in.

OK so lets look at the bigger image here. Like you are saying, the universe is an infinite space there is no end, and with the no end bit there must have been no beginning. As this planet has only been about for a few million years, the universe has been here forever. Or so i can see. No one made the universe or the other realms.

As for the

Also faith you said will always have war and death, yet lets just step back and see the science of the weapons that man has created to protect themselves and to dominate. Just forgot to add this in.

There will always be war as no one religion can agree on their God. It is just a vicious circle. The day that science made weapons was always going to be the down fall of 'man'. It was always bound to get into the wrong hands. Weapons were made to protect our families and to hunt. Until someone thought it be fun to kill people.

If you also look back through time, take the Templar Knights, they were put in place to 'save' the baby of Christ, the Catholics in Rome devised a plan to slaughter them all and retrieve what was not theirs. The war over the Holy land, and so on, all these have occurred because people cannot accept that if there is a God, he/she/it would be one and the same.

I believe in God (call him/her what you wish) ,a higher being. How he was created I do not know. Maybe just the energy from space itself.
But god did not create war man did. For he wants it all his way, play by may rules or I will take my ball home with me. The real question is can mankind ever learn to share and allow others to have their beliefs. Will we ever get to the higher planes of life.?

trepidation

I understand what you are saying, all true, yet Do you think the battles that rage in our time is all faith based or a dominance in the world fact. Years back many recorded battles were in fact over faith and the lands that occupied.

so calculations of faith and death and war is futial in my opinion. belief in what you or I think will never come to terms for religion and politics are subjects so touchy with the world. In fact they are seldom discussed.

Her I have tried to put the concept of faith not on my beliefs but on a whole realm of religions.

I think a lot of the wars that race today is on structures of others countryies and politics and has lost the faith value.

I think the Universe is all energy, because mass and energy have the same aspects.

Well all culture and civilizations have worked very good believing in a god, I think gives them drive, all the marvelous ancient/modern architecture, the wide cultural variety and even history of each one are taken/preserved from artifacts and even buildings itself, without that we wouldn't be standing here like/where we are. That doesn't justify the killing for sacrifices and innocent people within te concept, but yeah we are humans and we still kill for the same reasons today, atleast the sheep or narrowheaded individuals. We will transcend when we are not closed in accept every condition of our human nature, when a gay can do whatever they want and society doesn't fall on religion to decide what to do about it, or when we separate beliefs/faith from reasoning. When science and religion don't fight for the turf...

True

Faith or God could have no logical thought behind it. it is the person who holds the faith is where the power of its boundries hold the meaning and strength. We have become a society of greed and strength which dictate the boundries of our culture. Tho faith is not so promaninat as early years it is still held to high regards on any person and their beliefs.

Can we sit and explain God or faith,- No for each holds their own ideas and logic behind the structure in which they practice. Is this wrong - NO, for faith has unlimited boundries on the black and white scope of life.

well I feel there is a God, Goddess.. whatever one believes. I mean we did not just rise up out of the dust/dirt and become many many different tribes and civilizations on this planet.

I feel regardless what your faith or belief is we all agree that something bigge than us is out there.

I do. I agree with you fully. Unfortunately, I think this website won't really respond to this post because vampires are somehow against God.

Ok I read this response and I am like WTF?? just because people are living a Vampire Lifestyle why would think they are against GOD.. LOL I mean To me GOd is whomever one may believe in or worship.

Vampires follow a code and they have Beliefs as well as the next person. So please do not pass judgement on people or person on this site.

This site in my opinion recognises all things of unexplained nature and of the Dark side of nature as well as the Mystical side of things.

Even Vampires came from somewhere the stories the ledgends etc... and they have certain beliefs as well as the rest of civilization.

I mean even Animal have an Alfa male counterpart they respect andworship in many different species.

Anyway I do believe that soem do not understand the full concept of a GOD etc....

I dont know abut you ~Meagly~ but I follow no code of conduct, or morale guidelines. This is an elitist concept that I do not agree with. I am my own individual and follow what I feel within my heart and head. Common sense to me will always dictate the good from the bad respectively...Therefore, no code nor morale values do I hold in very high regard. Since they do not pertain to me as an individual.

If you are saying as you belive it to be the truth Soulshroude, then what about the 'laws of the goverment'. Do you personal think that you can kill another person in the police station and not get arrested? Why not...since you personal belive that you do claim that Quote: Therefore, no code nor morale values do I hold in very high regard. Since they do not pertain to me as an individual.:

Meagly, never heard of the alpha male analogy to god. The alpha males in the animal world are designated based on their ability to protect through leading their pack or herd to food and fighting off interlopers. Their reward is usually sexual. Ancient humans no doubt followed a similar system and applied the same theory to the godhead. Hence, the old testament god in all his silver-backed wrath giving us the double-edged gift of the garden of eden and free will. Theory also ignores the alpha-female role in the pack. Won't go into that but to say it's not to remain virtuous.

Well I can understand the Animal part meagly posted.. it was me my alter ego.. LOL

Well as you said the Alpha male animal is who protects guides, etc their herd, pack or whatever it may be as the same as an Alpha female..

to me anything that we regard as soemone or soemthing higher than us and we use to lead us or teach us etc. can be considered a god, goddess etc, to many people as well as the animal world.

There is soemthing or someone people believe in even if it be yourself. Faith and Belief is what most get by on with out it they lose all hope. and fall into despair.

As to SoulShroude statement, if you want to live that way so be it yet, as was said how do you live with out some kind or code, morals, or belief?

I mean if we did not have any of this then we would all be in a alot of Chaos, with so many peopel there has to be soemthing that gives them hope, and belief even if in themselves.

Everything on this planet is very complex in its own right and well as I had said undermy meagly profiel we did not just pop up out of the dirt/sand and just begin to live and had instant knowledge etc..

there is soemthing stronger than us out there. yet thay is my way of thinking and everyone has their own thoughts or way of living life.

Myself I do feel that if we had no laws, no code, no morales... it would be Apyocolastic Chaos within this planet... not a thing I want to be part of..

Yes i do believe in the concept of a higher power or a supreme being and i too am also Pagan so i do believe in "Gods" & "Goddesses"

I believe not in the "concept" of God, but in God him/her/it self. It's easy to take a scientific look at the universe "oh, this happened because of the big bang, humans evolved from primates" and the such. Now I'm not saying that those things are false, we have fossil records that trace human roots back to something resembling a primate/ape, but I believe that nothing over the course of creation happened by accident or coincidence. They say that the big bang was a result of a spoonful of matter floating in a void becoming so densely packed that it caused itself to explode. Ok, I can see it happening, but what you have to ask yourself is: How did this convenient lump of dirt wind up floating around in the middle of a VOID? is there a scientific explanation for the progression of existence? Sure, but I believe that it's being guided by something that is beyond us. And by the way, I in no way mean to offend anyone with different beliefs.

Very truthful assumptions... Maybe the universe is god's brain and we are the subconcious.. See I can make my concept of god too..Men in black put it as alien and his marbles were the universe, monotheistic deities make him as a human personification, polytheistic made them natural disaster as gods, the Mayans and some tribes as animal spirits, the wiccan and magik as elemental spirits, scientist as weird coincidence, random mutation and natural selection out of nowhere just happened....What if God is non of the above and just all of the above, what if its a program of the human existant for another thing unknown, I once read a weird Myth of creation, where you climb like ladders certain levels, or dimensions and that you ascended when you were a ready spirit to leave this plane.. maybe all of them were a found answer in each period of time of the same concept and place not just the only real thing, many of the elievers claim their religion are the only truth and that the other are misguided, then why he have many misguided and only one truth, wha tis the same truth and everyone is misguided to stir the world up, for what? you may ask idk, you can share your ideas of what would this be, maybe to actually give a meaning in each individual, group or community to find the understanding of other things that transcend what the difference promote, maybe to make the unity as one specie a more concious way to get found yourself, everything would be easy in life if it was given to you and you don't make an effort/sacrifices/decisions or if we are iven everything their is no point or meaning of existance, e would all be fat babies monkeys all our lives, we can easyly be the result of an experiment, each one a variable of the outcomes and as a whole the experiment of conciousness and rationality above all living things in here and known universe...If you look back o every single one tiny one of the groups, community, civilization and individual recur to a higher form, may it be leader of a clanor "natural force" I believe is to much coincidence to be a single God of one religion, because frankly many of todays religion werent around 5000 years ago and they had their own god.. I don't think all of them are in hell because the modern gods weren't around those times. So the point is, is something in every individual and programed to search for higher purpose, and its a mystery only death can answer. Yet I don't discard any posibility of devine or spiritual powers because the studies has being long ago in many practices and if it didn't work i think they wouldn't waste their time doing BS, maybe the believing in something influence an unknown confidence inner power to cure, lead, inspire a group to do what they think it was right/genius in their disposition or circunstances depending on the time they were standing..It seams it has worked since then and it has led to where we are standing, Lets see where it leads now..

Revenous, thanks, two for the price of one. This is the reason that I love VR. The conceptog God, only exist in the heart of the individual. Is something that you must feel, believe and have faith. God can not be forced into anybody mind. You must believe by yourself. Yes, most of the catastrophic events that happen in our history were created because the follower of a religion. But, humans tend to divert the true meaning of any religion and at the end, there is war. And will happen again and again...is human nature.

MY perception of God, is that he is a crutch for humanity. The being people call to in times of trouble and need, and often forget in times of joy.

I don't believe in a God in the christian sense, and have no objection to others believing.

I personaly follow more the Church of Satan philosophies, meaning I create my own good and evil.

I guess for many their concept of god is what ever they were taught as a child.

I guess God is a nice protective figure who will look after you when the world goes tits up

I think all the concepts of gods and deity are beautiful , theres room for all of them .Theres so many flavors of religion and belief, so many versions of heaven and the after life .That man at some point in evolution had looked to things he could not explain, sort to reason his own morality ,and came up with things higher than himself to pay homage to is great . My thoughts are that it doen,t matter which god you pray to because that is not important , they all essentually grow a person in the same direction .To acknowledge belief in something outside your self . Why ? maybe human kind is some kind of process by which god feeds or grows . I think we are the physical process which links spirit to matter . We take physical enigies and turn them into spiritual enigies to feed "God " and to grow him/her/it whatever you belive it to be . I just think god is a mass conciousness that runs through everything , a bit like the force in star wars ,a human can tap into it on higher and higher levels by trying to achieve oneness with it . Ok thats my view of god .

I believe there is something out there but i am at a loss as to what i believe in calling it. If you look at most religions there is something of greater power that they worship like God or Budah. I believe they are all the same. there is somthing that created us and we all have our own beliefs on what that something is and we have to find it. I am personally on a quest to find exactlly my beliefs on religion but i do know that something like "God" is out there.

Buddha was a teacher of Zen, Zen, and Taoism both have no Deity Figure.

Yet Know dabbler is not buddha prayed to like a god in todays society. Even tho he was the founder of Zen.?

For almost, ALMOST every religion has some form of diety that is prayed too. whether a figure or a place.

Most societies have a supreme being they believe is the creative force. Some have divided them up into aspects. Most are meaning one being that is solely originated from one cultural group that most take for granted now in modern times that when they use the word "God" everyone takes that perspective. Not everyone views things this way. I always thought what was meant was created in his imagination. Even if one were to speak of Yahweh, if you go back into the history outside of certain groups, he had a wife, lol. They worshipped multiple gods and he was one of the pack that declared he was the only one to be worshipped and sent out armies to kill the Canaanites because they continued to worship El, so it is respective to the culture on who or what God might be. To me it is the very essence of everything and is sentient. I think race gods were really people and the creation itself more of a sentient energy force. Just my opinion of course. I don't believe it can interact with humans because its vibration etc. etc is on a non physical level. It's a pure energy form in my belief.

to me the idea of god is a way for the human mind to wrap our at times narrow mind around the ideas and the horrors of every day life. we as humans always need a way to explain the meaning and purpose of life and of death. we try to find a meaning to this never ending cycle of suffering. i mean besides the point of renewing the planet and what not.

to me i find it hard to believe that some sort of higher power created the universe. but as far as a higher power controlling the fates of all mankind that is something i can fathom.

so many times before we have sought the idea of life or nature as something supernatural. during the time of the great empires of Rome and of Greece they thought the thunder and lighting was the work of Zuse (not sure of the spelling). but when all it was the rapid evacuation of air leaving an area after being super heated and then the air around it moving in to fill that space.

i just do not think that we are meant to know some things in this universe as it would to me in my eyes undo the very thing that holds parts of this world together as a race (mankind)

but too few see the world in this manner. as it was said people want to believe that there is another reason or purpose for our suffering or our joyous times. as a man women or child pretty much all of mankind seeks to find a reason for such a thing.

Some people want more then exceptance, they want emphatic approval from others, some even want confrontation with cynical people, unlike cynics, skeptics have reasoning behind not subscribing to beliefs, I get along fine with people who keep their beliefs in context. I cannot, and will not attempt to reason the likelihood of every religion, and I will not suspend reasoning, and critical inquiry when a believer testified to something " super nature " manifesting. How many people need to be lead into wholesale exploitation over the concept of god, before religions police their ranks.

I used to think that God was some jerk up in the sky holding a magnifier glass up to us and laughing while we make mistakes. Now...I can't really say I'm sure. I believe that there is some higher power, but who, or what exactly it is, be it male or female, or both, or neither, I cannot say.

What you believe in must be found by yourself. So when you are not sure you reserach and find what is best for you and what feels right to you. No one has to have the same beleifs everyone can have a difference. You see the world different than others do.

Clementia92~What you believe must be found by yourself.

Well stated, it is our own right and structure to believe in the God we wish. It makes up not just the faith in our soul, but also makes up the structure of our life in society.

As stated before this is why in so many ways that religion is never discussed amongest friends. There are too many vairables to this topic and so many opinions on the faith of each of us.

And no matter what is told we still resume the faith in which we wish and do not change due to others opinions or ideals. Thats why we are human.....

Not subscribing to a belief as well, if I may add Cadre.

Among friends I like to know what they accept theologically, or/ and philosophically. The main purpose is that such knowledge is an aid in mourning. When it goes beyond context ( putting their faith before their social interaction, then it becomes uncomfortable to associate with them, ( all they want to do is talk about what they believe, and how others ate do lost not sharing their beliefs.) The triangle to avoid is rather well known ..
Religion, Politics, and .. however " Where three are gathered in agreement.." then that is more likely time to share deeper involved things relating to beliefs, some even find debate in those that share beliefs, it is not only skeptics that question the "Concept of God", the whole mentality that once you believe, you are without questions is rather naive.

Alexa910 states:
SNIP..."because vampires are somehow against God."

I reply:

While I am a Theistic Satanist, I do believe God exists. The OVC is comprised of people of MANY different backgrounds. We have Satanists, Pagans, Wiccans, Christians, and even Catholics. Or do you, perhaps, mean that the vampires we find in fiction are somehow against God?

By the way, if you don't want the opinion of others, please don't waste our time with yours. This is a place for communication. Communication is a two-way street, not one person posting their views then denying that right to others.

Meagly stated:
Vampires follow a code and they have Beliefs as well as the next person.

I reply:
Do you mean the Black Veil? I ask because the majority of vampires I know within the community do not actually follow the Black Veil. Personally, I follow the laws of my city, state, and country. The majority of others I know do as well. And yes, we have beliefs just like the next person because we are the next person.

The concept of GOD to me is very real, I am not here to judge anyone on their beliefs. I believe he does exist for the simple fact of all that is around us. May it be good or bad, the Grand Architect Of The Universe had an idea and made it come true. We can not be the only beings, there has to be other species of some kind of other planets and universes. So hence GOD created it.

God doesn't exists..
That's all just a creation of religious centers to try keep us frightened.. and it's a good way to benefit from that..
give them money for this.. give them money for that..
just nonsense... in fact people are gods.. they are making theirs life look how they want..
god haven't gave us fire of wheel.. people invented that...
the evolution isn't something that god gave to us.. that is something that we deserved..

Deserved?

The concopt of god or any deity that one holds to themselves is their structure or faith, what we deserved from evolution I think not, it is the evolution that has come to be any will always change every year. So i do not see this as we deserve it.

Fire was an accident that man seen and tried to create in my belief, they just didn't sit around and think hey lets build a fire.

heck aliens may have showed man the wheel. the concept of any diety who ever you believe in or donot. leaves many speculations for and against about the evolution of all species and the end that may come.

What about the Concept of the Tao? Concept of Zen?

Cadre, faith is never to be imposed on others. Your expecting people to be "open minded, and Tolerent" to your faith, yet you are pshawing those who
are indifferent to your faith. By such statements implying, " Guess you'll just have to accept faith as the absolute it is. It is not! Your narrow spectrum allows you to perceive it that way. But really look at the fragmentation of your faith! It is imploding, the concept of god has become a convience, and
pretense for elitist, with a few exceptions .

@cadrewolf

faith..
I have faith in god because he gave us trees and mountains and seas and sky.. !? who can prove this?? none of us..
scientist have all the answers and explanations for all those so called phenomena..
Man seen it and tried to remake it.. learned something (EVOLVED)..

No dabbler I expect what faith a person has is their own choice and not me to meddle. That is their structure and beliefs they hold to make them---them. I change no ones opinion and do not expect mine to change. i shall listen and take others words with a grain of salt and go on what i believe and not the perception of others.

So with this said, I just took that life is what we deserve a little off the cuff. sorry if i did present it wrong. life is not an item we deserve to have but a life we are giving to enjoy and live and learn. not to have with no bearing and remorse.

The implication a larger percent of believers make, that those who don't share their faith, or could care less personally about subscribing to beliefs are somehow flawed, or ignorent ( closed minded) is an insult. It has been long enough that believers have had society cater to their " fragile sacred opinions".

Thank you for understanding.

Not all who don't believe, are against the beliefs of others. When I, or most people ( even believers) feel pressured by the implied absolutes of smothers faith/ belief the response is rather predictable, how the engaging party responds to the reply of the engaged person is what seperates Cynics, from Skeptics, cynics are openly hostile to the beliefs of others. Skeptics except the beliefs of others as irrenavent to them, and choose not to apply the dogma, or teachings to their life, because if every believer was as open minded as they would like others to believe.. They would be open to the concept of the unconvinced, and indifferent.

If anything is possible, as some believers would insist.. Then it is possible that religion is an outdated gimmick, set to tap mans fasination with mystism.

Isn't God simply the personification of the deity/higher power people have faith in, so that they can live their lives to a specific code and moral compass?

There is no 'God' as the church sees, nor was there ever a Jesus. I believe in the Universe. If you want proof then watch Zeitgeist thw Movie... www.zeitgeistmovie.com

We all have our own perceptions of god, and that is all that needs to be said.

A concept of belief and how we use it in our life, whether we believe in god or nothing it is the beliefs we hold true to help in our lives decsions.

Voltaire once said: "If God doesn't exist, it should be invented. It is, after all, what people did".
To me God is not an entity; is something we all are, something that the Universe itself can be perceived as... because I go by the idea: " If humans didn't exist, will God still be alive?".

I heard this already somewhere and was so impressed..
good quote..

if you mean God (S) as a concept then yes I believe that there is higher beings who are meant to help us if needed. as for a 1true God as in Jesus No I do not believe that ,I also have trouble with the Original sin, where a baby is born with sin, that is bull crap . only you are responsible for what you do or don't do.

While I do not at all believe in "God" as defined by any religion, yet it seems both logical and unavoidable that some overriding principle of Intelligent Design is and has been at work both macrocosmically (literally) as well as microcosmically in affecting and influencing our individual lives.

I feel the term "God" is too filled with religious misconceptions, assumptions, and attribrutes that detract from what truth might otherwise be found therein. I find myself more inclined toward the term used in Freemasonry: the Great Architect of the Universe.

Regardless which term or lack thereof we might prefer, for me at least the fact seems to remain that a foundational "programming" exists in Nature that cannot be explained by attributing all such to Natural Selection, Chaos Theory, or any other theory devoid of the concept of ... Intelligent Design.

To me, most convincing in this debate is the indisputable fact that we... as Human Beings... would seem to violate the concept of a Universe devoid of Creation given that we... create.

We, the supposed product of eons of "random chance," have not only developed the capacity for creation, for intelligent design... but, in fact, are most driven by that very capacity. We, as Human Beings, MUST create; it is hard-wired into our very beings. Whether it be music, art, writing, dance, or any of a myriad of other creative outlets, yet we all find perhaps our greatest fulfillment as intelligent beings when we ... create. And yet, Darwinism teaches that the principle of creation, of intelligent design, is supposedly not found anywhere else in the known Universe and never has, that somehow we, alone, are the only ones who have somehow developed this entirely unprecedented capacity. In Darwinist theory regarding not only the formation of life on this particular planet but the formation of ALL that is or ever has been, the concept of intelligent design is viewed as anathema, as the ultimate heresy.

And yet... the keyboard I am presently using, the computer upon which I write, the website I am posting to now, the Internet whereon that website is located, the car in which I am currently located, the clothes I wear, the glasses I am using, the cell phone at my waist, the watch on my wrist... basically almost everything I use and that is around me... are ALL the products of creation, of intelligent design. How is this possible if, as Darwinism claims, the principle of creation, of intelligent design, has never before existed in the Universe?

If the concept of creation, of intelligent design, is entirely alien to this Universe... how could we possibly have acquired that which supposedly doesn't exist anywhere else and, so we're told, never has?

The far more logical position is that we create because the Universe is most governed by that very principle, and the more intelligent the lifeform, the more important to such is the expression of that intelligent through... creation, through intelligent design. This is a principle found throughout Nature, in fact. The more advanced the lifeform, the more demonstrable the desire and drive to ... create.

Thus, if this theory is true... then it naturally follows that the higher we go, both in lntelligence and existence, the greater and more far-reaching are our "creations." And if so, then ultimately there must be a Designer or Designers over all and toward which same level we are ultimately progressing, as He/She/They did before us.

This is only one of several lines of logical reasoning that leads me inevitably to my own conclusion that there must be an Intelligent Designer or Designers of all that is.

- Upir'

Religion teaches us that there is a god. But over time we come to our own opinions. What changed me was one day talking to a pastor and even him admitting that none of us know if god really exists

religion gives us a god sterotype, yet it is found in almost all cultures of some deity that is considered godly.

Our own inner thoughts and belief is based on the structure of our life and how we percieve the ability to believe or not in some unknown force driving us to points in our life.

Anyone that attempts to physically represent God in part by their actions of intervention confirm indirectly the god that the person witnessing the man made results.

So those who are, and have been operating as the Wizard had (behind the curtain) are gods.

Man made results may infact to others percieved as guidance from an unknown source. Whether it is ones belief or interpetation that a god does exist is the choice in which they make.

Perception of bueaties in this land is the work of life and the prospect of god and not done by the hand of humans. or interpetation of a diety adds comfort and resource in some ways and helps with the fear of death yet to come. a transition that maybe our souls or what shall move on from this planet.

One of my favorite sayings is:

I also do not believe in the God that you do not believe in.

It is as impossible to comprehend God as it is for a chair to comprehend a carpenter. All major religeons agree that there is a covenant that God will send teachers to elevate our knowledge and the condition of man. These teachers will: inspire religeous text; will proclaim they speak for God; and will have inate knowledge.
As a part of the religeous text they will give laws: immutable spiritual laws, and laws that protect the believers until the coming of the next teacher (and, often, as a test of our love.)

If we are the sum of all are parts, then we are greater than any god than we can concieve; and God is infinetly greater than all He has potential to create.

Thus the need for a devine teacher, because man is incapable of concieving anything greater than himself. The power that is unleashed with each devine teacher is documentable by the radical bursts of human advancement after each teacher has appeared.

I believe that "God" is whatever one wants to believe. There is no right or wrong answer as each person has their own beliefs and morals. It does not need to be scientifically proven..it is how a person believes or feels and what drives them. We are all individuals who have different beliefs..no one is right or wrong in their personal beliefs or ideas when it comes to this topic.

While I would like to believe that there is a higher entity, there is no way to scientifically prove its existence. If there were a way to prove it, we would have done so by now. This also lends itself to the idea that humans have been barking up the wrong tree for quite a while, and that our perception of God is disastrously incorrect.

Not entirely, some of that concept have brought positive as negative feedbacks, some have somehow evolved our ways of doing things, and some use it to control others, sad but true.

Well, no matter how you look at it, most organized modern religions are little more than self aggrandized cults pitting the masses against each other for spiritual control. I'm not sure how most would view things, but in my book, that's not how a real god would function. Thus, most religion is false, even though the original teachings were meant with the best of intentions. Spirituality, on the other hand is an entirely different matter.

Like always, humans have to come along and screw things up.

Revenous. the control of others is not only felt in religion based orginazations but has a far range of idenities. And yes you are right for the control over others is not the comprehension of a God but a control freak using the name of any religion to control or brainwash those who need guidance in their lives.

Belief or not is a no win solution to those who have choices in their life. for individualism is what we all should have and thats what makes us different people in a society filled with so many choices.

I find the minority of believers that have moderate concepts of a deity are nonconfrontational, I can observe the application of their belief.

Yet the other minority are the ones that disturb most people, the sensationalist, it is not enough to be acceptant that it is their belief.. One needs also to " marvel" at their every pious claim of divine experience, as if they are the one touched by their deity.. The imply that all others are without comfort, and even in some cases dangerous to those that believe as they do. I can smoke crack, and get the same " conversion" that some religious people profess. I still find the Tao, and Zen to be far more inviting then all the other religions/ spiritual practices I have delved into.

God to me is the theological core of my beliefs. He/she is not necessarily an individual but that strong unshakeable core.

God. There are Many forms that people believe in.

Many religions believe in one god, but many different things to do before you die.

Just like Buddha teaches self control, Nyx teaches self strength.

personally, i believe that a " god " is just a theory. a Basis of how you want to live. A set guideline of rules that must be followed.

Dreamless night. Very well put. The presence of variations within ritual lend support to your summery of your accepted concept if deities " gods".

Yes.
Thank you.

You see, it is my belief that God is a theory, a safeguard if you will. Someone who we can relax in telling what we feel. to make us feel better, or to give us courage.

Myself, Im Wiccan, and believe in Nyx. Speaking to a " god " such as her, makes me solve my own problems, without having to ask anyone for help. It helps me build self coincidence as well as spill out what i need to admit, without anyone actually hearing me. it helps me solve my personal problems, thinking there is a " god " listing and helping me through this journey in life.

Dabbler

Finding humility in any communty is rare.

There are probably much fewer humble people in the scientific community thatn there are in the religeous.

As for proceletizing... how many scientists do you know that are willing to give ground on their beliefs, or not spread Evolution over ID.

How many parodies (a la Pastafarianism) have the religeous community purpatrated against the scientific community.

I could be wrong, of course, as I have not made a comparitive study (or read such) on the cold war between the two communities, and the general level of character exhibited in the attempt to persuade their counterparts.

I do know that religeons (as well as scientists) can often be

Science is not about belief.

Reasoning, and logic may not apply directly to beliefs, but claims of experiences, and paranatural are subject to logic.

Example is it not illogic that Peter Popov could "hear the Lord" and then speak off the top of his head the names, address, and illness of audience members he just met? How many people need to be led into jungle compounds to spend their life savings on the chance that a faith healer will heal them? Only to be told.. They didn't believe enough!

I'm an engineer more than anything else. I look at something as simple as the human hand and understand the degree of design necessary to perfect it.

In that, and many other designs, I have to say that recognizing the design means I have to recognize the designer. That one ..Universe-white haired being- or Holy door know..would probably be god.

Science and belief are two different things.

like fact and fiction.

belief keeps people going. Science can either hurt or help what we believe.
No scientific facts have proven god's to be real or just a theory, but right now, they prove to be just a theory.

Do you guys not understand that this debate is pretty much pointless?

If one chooses to believe in "God" or another deity or 10 (lol) they are most likely firm in their beliefs. The same goes for those that would rather believe that science is responsible for all things.

Trying to change the mind of a devout believer is futile.

Everyone has their own beliefs and it's up to the individual to grow or not in their beliefs.

Personally, I believe that each person, instead of seeking others opinions of their faith or lack of, should search inside themselves for what they believe to be true or not.

We each have our own path that is no one elses.

No scarletvamp, it's not pointless.

And people can change there beliefs. My soon to be wife changed her's a while back.

Believe me, I know very well how one can change their beliefs...I'm not denying that point. But, it should be because that person has been searching for what they truly believe...not because they're swallowing what someone else has fed to them.

Yes, but the way you made it seem...


See, i use to be Atheist, but then i started to learn about Nyx and stuff, and started to realize that i hold similar beliefs as to what the guidelines are for being wiccan.

The term or name God is generic and means or represents something different to each and every living thing which is what makes or relationship with God so intimate or personal. We are all made up of the same matter and energy that exists in the stars and the unverse and if God is believed to be everything and we are his children then we are infact children of a higher power. When we die our energy doesnt cease to exist it simply is recycled by the universe and is transformed into another form of existance or state of being, the concept behind God and our existance is so intricate and complicated that it could only be the product of a higher intelligence, hence God. The Mayans believed in God and constructed the Mayan Calendar which ends in 2012 because of a revelation that within that year the world ends and science has supported the fact that a rare eclipse that takes place once every 700+ thousand years will happen when the sun aligns itself with the milky way galaxy which could cause a gravitational reverse of the earths gravity field causing wide spread disaster. Now knowing the Mayans are not as civilized or as advanced as we are and if this can or does in fact take place then the information the Mayans obtained must have come from a higher inteligence possibly the being or entity we call God.

Yet people cannot wrap their brains around the concept that science is not a belief.

They are "open minded" to everything but the fact that some are content without subscribing to beliefs, or philosophies.

Could this have to do with those who believe feeling threatened by people not bring " guided" by some über entity, or metaforce?

Every time a cult becomes critical someone says " We thought they where just a group of devoted people."

Is it beliefs I " square off with? No I square off with irrational, and illogical
Attachments to the faith people follow.

Are you implying that ALL cults are religeous?

Are you implying that truth (spiritual or physical) is not relative to the understanding of the perciever?

I find attatchment to a "no God" universe takes more faith than "hedging your bet," or belief in some philosophy that allows for an existance beyond the limitations of science.

I examine the evidence that I am presented with for my spiritual belief, I believe in their proofs, and that they are relevant to me today. Science can say no better, I'm pretty sure it says the same. Most spiritual people test thier belief (or have it tested for them,) just as scientists do (maybe not as methodically as current scientists, but surely as methodically as non-scientists that put faith in science.)

Also in reference to another post... I think that ther esi some error in understanding of a god and God. Capital G-o-d is in reference to the god of Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Buddism* and Hinduism* (*as monotheism.) Pagan gods occasionally reference a supream god or that the minor gods are aspects of God. Technically if you do not believe in a single creator, you are a pagan and should not capitalize your G, as God is being used as a name and not a pronoun. (I wonder if this applies to athiests... perhaps they should refer to "od" as tehy do not believe in G or g.) *laughs*

Naah, I dont think you are crazy at all DJJarak, we all have different thoughts, and those make us who we are individually, but I ask my self, what is this consciousness we are talking about so much? The ability to store memories? or to fulfill wishes? Sounds overrated and rather unimpressive if you ask me, not to mention boring, quite dull. Why ponder so much about something called consciousness at all? We dont even know what that is, or should it be something at all but a product of our rich imagination. We know that consciousness is a totally different thing for us each individually so how can consciousness be something at all, and with that it is difficult and probably impossible to reach a realistic definition of what consciousness really is? It might be just a product of someones, or of collective schizophrenia as well. We can go deep in to neuro science where it is trying to be determined is consciousness just a certain balance of bio chemicals in the organic construct, or is it something more, but not even the most learned can answer the question, be cause it seems the consciousness is a speculative balance, or simply a product of our imagination.

So what is God than if nothing than a product of our imagination? A speculative idea? A pass time thought? Nothing?

I dont think god is a being... Personally I think its just a basis of beliefs that one worships.

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