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Do you believe that a person that has been tortured and killed and is now a ghost could possibly be redeemed and not haunt the place in which it haunts?

Yes, I believe that a person that is tortured and killed doesn't necessarily have to haunt a place.

why would that be?

I believe that haunting and getting redemption will be based on in individual spirit

I do believe in an eternal soul, I just don't believe that souls hang out and can affect the material world.

Why would a person who had been tortured and killed need redemption?

i would have to second liz's statement , why would they need to be redeemed?

and i would think that it would be their choice where they wish to go. if they want to haunt the person that killed them, then hells yes, they are going to stay where they where killed or around their murderer. but other than that, i would think that they would go and do what ever t hey pleased.

I think the idea was that their torture and murder were revenged.

maybe i chose the wrong word

If you believe that a soul would and could choose to stay, they might stay to revenge their torture or murder. They would also stay for other purposes, such as love of material wealth or lust.

So, if you first believe in an eternal soul, then believe that a soul would and could choose their current dispostion and location, and then that they were able to affect actions in a material, physical world, you might have a basis for haunting.

But those are quite a few assumptions on things that you couldn't reason out for yourself or prove to yourself.

Perhaps thats what hell really is, your soul attatched to the physical world for purposes like revenge or love of material items. You couldn't enjoy your material wealth or take revenge. It would drive you crazy. That actualy might fit into what we have been taught about desire for material possesions and the afterlife.

so true

" Ghost Town" presents it as those who are left behind ( surviviors) are the " gravity" that keeps "ghost" here.

It is my opinion that ghosts that haunt do so for various reasons. I have no proof or anything but just a belief. Some may stay because of the loved ones left behind or as stated earlier because they want revenge for their untimely death in a case of murder.

Whatever reasons there are for why ghosts haunt certain places I honestly believe that it is their choice to do so.

It is just that is doesn't seem reasonable that if the soul lives on past death, that it occupies the same space as the world it left behind.

How does it even know where it is, can it see, feel or smell things in the physical world? What senses does a sould have that could do these things? How could if choose to go or stay anywhere if it can't really determine what anywhere is?

There are those that do believe that ghosts of the stay where they perished.

I am basing my opinions on what I have heard about souls after death..how many near death experiences claim to be able to see thier bodies as they hover above them? Why would it not be feasible then to think that they do still have senses but not in the same form as when they were alive.

I think it's so much as the victim needing redemption as it is they want to be avenged for their wrongful death. The haunting of the place they were murdered would likely continue until that were accomplished.

Yes, but we see because we have sight organs that collect light and create electrical impulses through chemical reactions. Those electrical impulses are analyzed by or brains. What type of sight mechanisms would a ghost have?

1024 that I cannot answer as I am not a ghost..lol...one could only speculate.

The spirit's essense will be the determining factor in any hauntings until it passes to the ethereal world.

While dying, my personal comparision was simuliar too, but much more intense then Hallucinagins, it was an emerged panorama.

What " gravity" pulls " souls"?

What " propels" one "soul"over another.

I let the trip run it's course, my personal" soft ware" has been tested, and
I can possible work out the static next time around.

that's wat i would like to know too.

The magnetic power of a stronger energy source attracts the soul of the recent deceased, whether it is a place, persons or magical item. Until a stronger soul from the ethereal world comes to claim the soul it is drawn to the strongest source.

I think if their soul can be contacted and made aware then it has the chance to choose. Some hauntings are by choice either their love of the connection of the place or their need to pay some sort of penance and eventually will move on it time or just fade.

Well I gusse it depends on the spirit.

Doru, are you saying that the soul is stuck and doesn't have a choice? Does it have a choice as to which stronger soul it follows?

Doru..if I am processing your answer correctly a soul could be passed from force to force based on which is stronger? Kind of like a magnetic pull?

that's what it sounded like to me deadly , i can't say it makes sense to me but Doru does seem be passionate about his beliefs =) i tend to think that yes if a soul was tortured or killed in a violent manner that it would stick around and become a poltergiest ( spelling) i also believe that the killer . torturer would be trying to gain forgiveness by hanging around the victim's family.... but i also think that our souls learn the feel or presences of the ones we love , you know how you can feel them watching before you ever hear them enter a room. i think it would work the same way in the after life as well...

(Bows in utmost reverence)

I grew upon the post by doru in reply to this thread.

Well my case, I did not know earlier and even my clean house clean just like a temple yet the spirits played around me (Para-psychic experiences). I wondered at this that its not necesary that place is haunted any time period or passage for few seconds or may be for centuries.

quite the loaded question. it implies the existance of spirits/ghosts as factual.

Somethings aren't easily explained or written off as false. Somethings are unexplainable and others are taking as truth

Some things are just so annoyingly vague.

Yeah somethings are annoyingly vague

Yes I believe that is possible.

Some things are annoyingly vague, yet who is in place to say this is one of them? and the explanation behind that posture. Sometimes prejudice is one step away of "alleged acknowledgment of reasoning". When it "suppose" to be the one who aid the "delusional" instead of slamming for reverence of holding something higher than the rest...

'Do you believe that a person that has been tortured and killed and is now a ghost could possibly be redeemed and not haunt the place in which it haunts?"

Yes, if redemption is possible. My option is that what holds one's essence to a place is residual emotions attached there. If someone is tortured and they expect to move on, then perhaps they will. If they're not ready to go, likely not. My 2 cents.

I think it would depend on the spirit. If a spirit is seeking revenge then I dont think so but if they wanna move on then yes I believe it would work

If I get killed and tortured, why do I want to be in that place? I will continue to my new destination. Yes, there are many stories about the subject, where some humans were killed and their spirits or ghost stay around: like attached to the place of execution.

Yes, for it only wishes to get back at who or what killed him or her to be able to pass on with peace.

I don't think that people who are tortured and killed automatically haunt a place, if they want to leave there is some way for them to leave.

Basis for my opinion
On a trip to Europe I visited both Dachau and Auschwitz, Nazi concentration camps in Germany and Poland.

The most disturbing thing about the experience was surprisingly not the displays depicting the degradation and cruelties endured by countless men, women and children, but rather the void of emotion/energy emanating from the place.

It was like a black hole. Total and utter energy silence. I have never experienced anything like it. If there were souls trapped there I am VERY certain they would have been present and hard to ignore.

lost souls are said to stay in the places they are familiar with, such ghosts are said to be tortured souls. Yet proof is seldom shown only speculated on this.

Any town with a" White Lady Story" demonstrates how " ghost" remain state
because surviviors don't " Let Go" the more impact the subjects death the more memories attached to it.

So it raises the question, " Who is your town, or you personally "holding back"?

Nobody really knows the reasons behind a ghost haunting a certain place.
In a house that I used to live in there was a ghost of a miner. Our house had been one of the original houses in the town, it was in Northern Ontario where there were mine's everywhere underneath the town there was no more rock or soil it had all been mined out.
We just assumed it was a miner that had died in an accident that used to live in the house. We didn't do any research or anything but we saw him quite often, usually standing over us while we slept in the basement.

Oh yes i truely belive that

Yes I believe they can be redeemed. It can happen when justice is served or when they realise they are dead and that they can move on.

I also think that when justice has been served or they have been awaken to the fact they are dead that the torture of their end is truly over, they can pass on and stop haunting the last place they remember living.

In answer the original question, does the soul live beyond the persons demize?

Depends on what belief system you hold within yourself. The nature of the soul, or spirit, can be defined in a myriad of ways throughout various cultures, religions and practices. There are some traditional teachings that introduces the pupil to the preparation of continuing a lifes work past death itself. In others there are those that force death in order to become enlightened once more, as in the Tibetan culture where they believe that death incomplete is an individual advancement to the next level of ascension.

In other traditional teachings they speak of spirit or the soul as a higher self, such as in Wicca for instance, and the body as the lower self.

In Satanism, as another example, death is of no consequence to some paths, again depending upon the ideology or philosophy of that path itself, it is more about self-deificiation and the ability or rather the discipline of enlightening and equating oneself to be that of either a demi god or even a god themselves.

Scientology believers say that if a soul is rapidly removed from the body, for example in sudden death ie: car accident, then that soul is tormented by its unfinished business.

Psychics around the globe also believe that these malevolent spirits are trying to reach the living in order to contact us for specific purposes.

What do you believe?

of course yes

i believe it depends on the situation and maybe how the person dies..

The Victim can be redeemed, but the killer may be a different story.

we assume from lore that tortured victims are the ghosts of today, yet could it be another realm running parellel with ours that these spirits dwell and sometimes merge inot our time.

You realise your question actually makes no sense? Though I think I know what you mean. I think that ghosts are more likely to haunt the place in which they live, ghosts are commonly known to exist in death as once they lived. Some more tormented ghosts however possible dwell on their moment of death for a very long time. I imagine it must be very traumatising.

I think it may depend on what has happened to the person. There can be many reasons why a ghost haunts a place or places.

If the person was murdered he/she may try to reach out to anyone to get their attention help to find the killer. If someone commits suicide it leaves an impression of why the person committed suicide and the actual suicide itself.

Likewise if it was their favorite place their spirit may come back to visit so to speak and see what is going on. A ghost may also haunt because he/she wants to stick around to keep an eye on things. He/she may feel that there is still work to be done.

There are also trapped ghosts. Some might be trapped due to something that happened near the end of their life they feel they need to get across before completely crossing over.

There are many different reasons why ghosts can haunt a place or several different places.

Yes, i feel that the ghost can find its way out

Redemption, if you beliebe the talk, is only God's choice.
But, in the main idea of the thread, I don't see why someone who has been tortured and killed wanting to go back and haunt the place where it happened; the more obvious choice would be to haunt the people who did it, that if the torture and killing weren't a result of a crime that person committed (because, let's face it, there are some people who deserve it).

Two questions...

One, is the poster of the thread sure about definition of redemption? Since the victim is usually not in the need of redemption. Victims are victims and would not need forgiveness.

Two, why wouldn't any individual not be up for the "redemption" process? According to the "bible" all creatures on earth, including the homosapien is entitled to "forgiveness."

If souls are energy and energy is controled by magnetic forces, then the stronger magnetic force would prevail.

"Magnetic fields surround magnetic materials and electric currents and are detected by the force they exert on other magnetic materials and moving electric charges. The magnetic field, at a given point, is specified by both a direction and a magnitude (or strength); as such it is a vector field.[1]

For the physics of magnetic materials, see magnetism and magnet, and more specifically ferromagnetism, paramagnetism, and diamagnetism. For constant magnetic fields, such as are generated by magnetic materials and steady currents, see magnetostatics. A changing electric field results in a magnetic field, and a changing magnetic field also generates an electric field (see electromagnetism).

In special relativity, the electric field and magnetic field are two interrelated aspects of a single object, called the electromagnetic field. A pure electric field in one reference frame is observed as a combination of both an electric field and a magnetic field in a moving reference frame.

In modern physics, the magnetic (and electric) fields are understood to be due to a photon field; in the language of the Standard Model the electromagnetic force is mediated by photons. Most often this microscopic description is not needed, though, because the simpler classical theory covered in this article is sufficient; the difference between the two theories is negligible under most circumstances."

From the following link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_field

I believe Lokiminion is correct. If spirits had to remain where they were tortured and murdered then the death camps should be pulsating with the spirits of the dead.
On the other hand, if what they needed was revenge rather than redemption, the would have followed their tormentors to the U.S., Bolivia, or Brazil when they fled Germany.

I think a ghost will only go away if they want to.

If they want to, and only when they are ready.

I was taught that a soul haunts a place by choice alone. They always have the option to leave and return to Summerland......

That is ...until they weaken to the point of returning because they can no longer resist.

Of course.

I think that the individual wouldn't be punished for not doing something that is horrible or even bad.

You are right. Only the living punish another for not doing something terrible.

well it could be possible that the tortured soul could stop haunting his area the only think i think it a residual thing

In my opinion I believe that if someone is tortured or killed they will probably haunt the place that they were killed or tortured in the place that they were tortured or killed in until they're case is solved somehow. They may even help in the case somehow.

Most spirits don't know that they are dead, and think that we are attacked or tortured and released, and they're p*ssed. They waqnt vengeance (still not knowing that they are dead) or they're confused and angry (still not knowing they are dead).

Or they know that they are, and they're UBER angry.

How do we know that the spirits either know or don't know whether or not they are dead? This is all pure speculation since we have yet to experience death, or even more so... The consciousness of the spirit.

As well, it is speculation regarding this entire thread. Most of the posters seem to have a be all end all conclusion that seems to be validated by every other poster. No one knows for certain on any level regarding the events after death. So why be so conclusive about something society really does not have a grasp of.

Unless the individual has been a ghost, spirit or what have you and has that first account experience to bring to the table after they came back form such death to portray that manifestation, then keep the "truth be told" conclusions out of it.

Until the individual witness's it for themselves, we as society will never know. That is, unless a spirit manifests itself for our naked eye to see and can carry on a decent conversation. Only then could possible proof be obtained.

Angry spirits or individuals who died so quickly (violent death, accident, torture) that they don't even know that they are dead can haunt the place where they died.

Some seek justice and others seek help, but nobody seems to notice them unless they start making themselves seen or heard.

Looks like a lot of speculation going on in here. Great violence causes unrest in the human soul or energy force (Thanks Doru) and that in turns causes the soul or energy force to not accept death resulting sometimes in a haunting. An individual of this caliber would not indeed be likely to not be at grips with the fact that they have passed.... Doru's belief that a spirit could be attracted to a stronger being's energy and magnetism is very possible as that is what the gifted psychics are, giant magnets for the energy of the universe and lost souls.

That's my contribution.

-Chela

Yes, I believe this is indeed possible. If the spirit manifests itself, particularly if it had an agonizing death in life, they might walk the earth to seek revenge on those who caused them such harm in life; or they might decide to act as avenger for others so no more people die by the horrible ways that they did.

Of course!
I definatly believe that they don't have to haunt the place where they got tortured and killed. I think that it's the spirit's choice whether they want to haunt it or not!

They are only haunting because they wants something.. Whether it be good or evil..
If the soul has been redeemed, then it has a chance to move on. Someone or something has set them free. There is no need to continue the place it once haunted..

I believe anything is possibe, especially in the supernatural world.

i wanna be that person to hunt ppl

and yes i do believe

I also believe in an eternal soul, but I believe it is the souls choice to move on or not. It may have a deep regret even though it doesn't want to be there which maybe holding it to a particular location.

I believe that spirit has the choice to haunt or not to haunt.

There are many who may believe one thing or another, there are theories and conjectures, but the fact remains that the only way we will ever know is when we actually face it after death.

I do believe a spirit can resist moving on and linger. I guess until you experience it or see it yourself, one will always be skeptical.
Amazes me how many people I meet don't believe in Ghost but do believe in a human spirit that continues. Is their a difference between a Ghost and Spirit?

I think many are looking at the word redeem and think of it from a religious standpoint. One of the definitions for redeem is this:

2 : to free from what distresses or harms

If the person who has passed has not been able to move past the traumatic experience then yes it would seem they would need to find some way to redeem themselves and move on. This is all speculative though, because we don't know if spirits are tied here due to traumatic experience. Some believe this happens but considering how many have died in this manner we would be over-run in my opinion with disgruntled spirits.

If that persons soul is ready and prepared to transition over. If they aren't ready or realize that their even died then they wouldn't be able to transition

I fully believe in spirits, but no~ they dont have to haunt the place

yes i think its possible. every spirit has the ability to move on. some just need more help than others.

I do think that they can get redemption. However, if they were innocent and wrongfully murdered they would probably stick around for revenge.

ok..I have been reading the posts and I am confused by the original question and the fact that the soul of the victim not getting redemption...well here is the definition for redemption:

(theology) the act of delivering from sin or saving from evil
repayment of the principal amount of a debt or security at or before maturity (as when a corporation repurchases its own stock)
the act of purchasing back something previously sold
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

From just the way the original post was made..why would the soul of the vicitim need redemption? They have not done anything in the general question to constitute that they have done something which required redemption other than dying at the hands of someone else. Could you please elaborate on the original post or was it meant to mean something else?

Yes I do believe that if someone is tortured and died that they can move on. Not all who have died in this way will remain behind I believe it is more the fact that the person who died can believe that they have passed on and are willing to move on.

I dont think it is that fact that someone has died in a shocking manner it is more the fact that they believe that they are dead and are ready to move on

I think if a spirit was the victim of a crime then yes they can be helped to move on when they realise that there is more for them waiting on the other side so to speak.

If they committed the crime... well maybe then this is what purgatory really is.. being trapped between worlds until they earn their right of redemption.

I do believe everyone has a spirit, so yes a ghost is your spirit of energy and if someone killed them I belive they can linger, whether it is resistive to moving on or out of revenge they seek on that killer.
I do believe they can move forward at will, but as for the killer, who knows?

Yes i believe that the ghost could finally rest in peace, but you have to find a way to give it to them. Find the reason why they died the way they did and place yourself in the wrong doers place and make it right. There is a catch tho'.........make sure they feel that your trying to help............when it's all said and done....... all will be well in the valley.........

Tortured & killed, or just killed?
well then I guess I've created alot of spookies over seas running around! Hope they scare the life out of the rest!
what? just doing my job!

I don't think that spirits are interested in revenge...personally. I do belive, however, that a spirit can be caused unrest and become violent, but not vengeful.

I guess I'm pretty much alone on this thought, but I don't believe in ghosts. I personally haven't ever seen any proof they exist. If they did though, I don't understand why one would want to remain where it had been tortured and killed.

Yes well, I think that when a person dies, they leave behind immense energy.. Aren't we all living right now? Giving and taking the energies all around us.. So, I think that when a person dies, they leave whatever they were feeling at that time, their hopes, desires, unfulfilled desires and all that.. People who die a tragic death, well, their energies could be volatile... Thus, perhaps, it said that they "haunt" that place.. unable to leave.. Maybe it's their ghosts.. But, the goodness in them is not left behind I wld say.. It cannot be the essence of who the ghost was as a person.. That would be horrid, wouldn't it?

Well, if their existence troubles you so much, there is always cleansing or exorcism.. *smilez*

You make it sound like a death scene from the Highlander movies and series IE the energy given to the winning Highlander after he/she offs the others head.

*stares blankly*


I was trying my best to put my thoughts into intelligible words.. and yes, I'm dramatic by nature.. *shrugz*

i think the ghost will kontinue to haunt whatever place they died until they are ready to move on.( i hope that made some what of sometype of sence) oh well....

While I think that a lot of people would like to believe that dearly departed loved ones' spirits/souls may still be "hanging around"--I do not believe this is the case at all. Whether the soul is tourtured, redeemed, or otherwise...I believe the soul departs from "this" world/realm/sphere of existence all together.
But the idea makes for interesting "haunted/horror stories."

It depends on the ghost, it could decide to rest in peace and leave the place it haunts or it could continue to haunt.

"Ghost" are projections of the living. Ghost Town the movie presents this well. a vicious murder is eventually likely to be tormented by "haunting" memory, the psyke breaking through. Families of victims, and communities shocked perpetuate "magnatism" as well.

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