The Ultimate Vampire Resource and Directory

I am going through IVF. I have four frozen embryos waiting for implantation. This got me thinking. Will their birth signs be incorrect? They were frozen in November but could be born any time after that, whenever I decide. Does conception date have anything to do with this or is your birth sign completely dependant upon the month you are born?

it only matters when their energy is released from the womb, best of luck on future offspring

Wow what an intersting thing to think about.nice thread.
I think for now I might agree with Infernal .But it sure warrants further investigation.

Thanks! My hubs is a Taurus and I'm on the cusp of Aries and Taurus. Since I get to choose when to try again, this got me wondering about birth signs and what would go best with ours. Then I started to worry that maybe their birth signs will be askew.

yea, this gives you perfect timing oppertunities to calculate best by what you would have, as the celestial wheels only really spin when the sperm and egg are matched, leading up to the date of release from the womb

From what I have read, the astrological sign is based upon the moment of actual birth...not conception, etc.
This is a very interesting thing to think about, however.

I think it has to do with the moment of giving birth.

i would assume it would be to do with when the baby itself is born

I would assume so too, but freezing future people was not around when astrology was first thought out.....

that is an interesting question. I guess it would depend on how you look at it.

Does the Birth sign go by the date that you where born or conceived. I thought it was the day you were born.

As they are called birth signs not conceived signs, I would say it matters only what day the child is born on.

I agree with infernal in that it when their energy is released is their birth signs.

I would have to agree, it coincides with the time they are born, that is why when doing a chart the Date, Time Am or Pm of exact birth are needed. I even know a lady who does charts and she asks if known the second of birth. Great topic.

But when you freeze embryos, their natural date of birth is thrown off.

I would think that it would go with the date of birth or as said before when the energy is released.
However, if you look at it from the question that you have just asked above my post, I would say that the timing would be off just a bit. Almost making one want to hold off in order to try and judge the signs. Like you said before birth signs and charts did not calculate being frozen so it is a question to ponder on heavily.

Taking a scientific point of view here.

Scientifically, the embrio has not reached maturity as larva would to a tadpole.

Most would base it off of the birth believe system, but what if it goes beyond that? What if the energies are simply dormant but are still active? It is a living thing after all, unless we are discussing the 21 gram soul's weight idealogy here.

Other then that, in the physical sense the individual should celebrate their birth date when they are physically born. As the soul still has yet to enter its target.

And if one believes in reincarnation? Isnt it believed that the soul re enters the world of the living 49 days after it leaves this plane?So,if one believes in that..hmm,not sure what I would think.

The reincarnation could be discussed in a new thread. It also involved dimensional awareness to undestand the concept of birth, resurrection/reincarnation in the physical sense and quantum theory with application.

But you are correct in the assumption that reincarnation has alot to do with actual birth signs.

i'd have to say it's the time they would be born perhaps there are other signs for time of creation rather than birth but idk

I think until birth we have no soul. I'm sticking with the importance is when one is born not conceived.

I'm glad some of you seem as perplexed as I am.
If a person is cryogenically frozen(I'm talking a born, maybe 60 year old), and we "defrost" them five years later; are they then 65 or are they still 60? The body wouldn't have any signs of further aging but the person's birthday is predetermined in this case.

Well my question is have you done cryogenetics on just the Embryo or have you had it frozen after being already sperm injected ( and yes they do that also.)

I ask cause if you have done the latter than yes, I feel you have altered and controlled their actually birth, yet I feel once they have been Blastocyst (5-7 days after fertilization) then frozen. To me then they have had their true bithdate changed so. You now have the choice to calculate and have them on what would of been their normal *Birthdate* to one of your choosing. Yet, if you calculate the 9mths from when they had actually been fertilized, then you are not altering their true Birth sign.

Example If you froze them in march then in actualality they would had been born in Dec. so say 10+ years later if you use them and do it in the month of March then they will still be born in their natural birthsign.

Otherwise if you have just frozen the embryo by itself, I feel that it does not matter and when ever you decide to use them then you could choose anytime for the birthline and it will be their true birth sign.

Sorry I got alittle clinical there as I said I am a Phelebotomist by trade ( I work in the lab and deal with blood and everything else that goes through a lab ) LOL

Great thread and question .

Legaly an embryo is not considered "alive". In some places an embryo several months along in development is concidered alive in relation to abortion.

i.e. in certain countries you can not have an abortion after the second trimester.

As far as human cyrogenics go. If a person was frozen at age 60 and was reanimated 5 years later then legaly they would be 65 years old even though there body would have only aged a few minuets.

MasqueradeDoll, maybe I am overly tired and reading incorrectly.... An embryo is sperm injected, so I'm a bit confused on what you mean. Do you mean the egg? What I have had frozen are week old embryos; fertilized eggs.

Claymore, yes legally it may not be alive but it is very much how we all began and the way we were all concieved. Legal or not, it is the start of life.

MD,I didnt know phlebotomist dealt with that kindof thing.Just blood work and such.Normally arent fert clinics labs in house?
Anyway,Im a little confused about he post also.

I always considered the birth was when the egg meet the spermatozoid. when 2 become one.

But this is my personal opinion, as logic dictactes me that this is when life begins and this is when life can be.
As it become a complet new dna by itslef a new being.

I've thought about conception vs. birth before, being into astrology my whole life. But it's when you are born, time/place/date, that appears to be the key. When you enter this world. My Mom chose exactly when to have the drs. birth my brother via c-section, after reading on different personalities he could have, or astro influences.

Is your Star sign the same as your Birth Sign I might be getting them mixed up. As I was born 14 May which makes me a Taurus. If you take nine mths back it would be different.

I apologise for the misunderstanding I meant to say was it the Eggs or an Embryo. I apologise for that.

yes, I deal with blood and that is my primary which also deals with all feilds of the Biological areas.

I mean if you have your Embryo froze at the NEDC, they transfer them to local clinics and hospitals in your areas for the Intro, the thing is that majority of them thaw and do not make the trip. There fore the person usually makes the trip to where their embryo is to be intro. it is all very complicated and many have been Intro with the wrong embryo and then terminate the preg. which in turn devestates the person who's Embryos they were, especially if they are the only ones they have.

It is not a perfected practice even to this day yet there are more success cases than failures. But, believe me there are and have been and wil be many mix-ups still happening, that is sad I feel.

Sorry, again I get carried away ..

i believe, its when its born

If you look at the astrological signs and whatnot almost as a type of "guardian force" then it would probably go by the date that the baby finally came into the world.

Seeing as how it would be born under a certain sign that sign would be "watching" over the birth at that time, making it when it's born not conceived.

Meaning that no matter how you alter the conception and or freeze the embryo the birth sign would still be for the date of the actual physical birth. It's not just symbolic in this case I'd say it's actual. It would be the forces at work that day helping to deliver that life fully into the world.

Just my two cents. If you don't look at it in that direction then it would be possible to go with any answer. I'd say find what you believe and go with that. Make a decision and just stick with it. Good for you on wanting to be informed though!

Interesting question!

A mature answer: The 'Birth Sign' will be applied when the egg and sperm unite, thus placing two energy's into one (possibly more if you're blessed with multipul creations ie: twins etc) and a life of procreation begins.

The common thought: The "Birth Sign" is when the infant is born or released (ie: C-section) and that day / time becomes the date of birth giving it the sign of the calendar or spiritual charting.

Opinionized answer: The Birth Sign will be exactly what it is meant to be simply because it becomes what it is meant to be: A creation of life.

Guidacarta
Neutral Lives

I like how you itemized them, answers. I feel once the eg is fertilized then itis alive and when frozen then your altering the bithsign unless it is planned to be born in the same tiem frame as if you just got preg. just em

I appreciate all the thoughts that have been expressed. Since Astrology came before IVF and freezing future babies, I just had to wonder. I mean today's youth is already mixed up enough....lol.

Also the moon in what planet has to do with the charts.

A friend of mine did mine I had to have the correct time of birth along with day etc.

Just decided to add my 2 cents.

Wonderful topic.

I didn't get through all the posts here... but for children born prematurely- I've never heard of their birth signs being adjusted because they weren't conception to 9 months right on the dot, neither for those that take longer to be born and fall over the cusp. All it matters is when your actually born. The birth is all signs are determined on.

I have several books on Astrology and will look at them shortly. But I am pretty sure what I have answered is how it works.

Actually.. I don't think I'll do any research. It only makes sense that birth is what counts- because why would Astrologers ask not only for the date, but the time of the day so they can give the most complete chart? It's birth, not conception that determines a sign.

That make sense *Images* because your right as to we need the exact bith TIME in order to provide an accurate chart for the person.So I agree that it is the actual Bith time nothing else. Makes total sense. thanks, I had not even thiught about the time chart. dahhh.. :)

Your exact astrological star sign if we are talking about western astrology as opposed to chinese astrology is determined at the exact time and place in the world that one is born. Time of birth. Not conception, not reincarnated just TIME and PLACE of birth.

Time and place of birth is used to calculate that exact alignments of the planets in our solar system in relation to each other, the sun and the earth as well as the the exact phsysical location of the constellations which make up the zodiac are at that time too.

In Western and Asian astrology, the emphasis is on space, and the movement of the sun, moon and planets in the sky through each of the zodiac signs.

I could go into this a lot deeper but it is very complicated and takes years of study to understand.

I would suggest that anyone who is interested in this subject further to buy a book about astrology that will guide you through the basics of what makes up your astrological sign.

as embryo they wouldn't have a birth sign yet. Birth signs are detemined at birth not conception.

What got me wondering really was the fact that my now frozen embryos would be born years and not days off. Thank you all for the wonderful information.

have you asked your doctor? it would be an interesting conversation and it would be nice to learn some things, then you can tell us what the doctor said :)

I believe that when ever the actual baby is born is when their birth signs are apointed to them.

*if anyone has another idea, please enlighten me*

I was a frozen embryo and born a month early yet i do not possess any of the characteristics of the other asrological signs close to me. So, in my opinion it doesn't matter when you were concieved so much as what planetary influences you were born under.

i don't know but i hope that they're healthy when they enter this world

We should know in April/May. That is, as long as my biopsy goes well this next month.

Very intersting post. I think its the day that the child is acctualy born on. If you follow the signs and look into it you could even find that the child would have the personality of the sign it was due to be born on... Just a thought.

Best of luck to you my freind. Hope all goes well dear.

The astrological sign is based upon time of birth, however their sign depends upon which Zodiac Calendar you prefer, the Christian one used today or the old world of Pagan Zodiac.

I go by the old world, it fits better per description of personality traits.

True, before we are born, we have no soul

call me crazy, but while i do try to keep an open mind about many subjects, astrology always just seems like a game to me. no one has ever told me satisfactorily how it could even work. face it..my car in the drive way has more gravitational effect on me just now than a star in the constellation of gemini (of which i am one...or two lol).

as to how someone knows when the soul is placed into the body...
i dont know how one figures that out either. some of the ancient heathens (im asatru btw) thought the soul entered the body 3 days to a week after their birth.

others think the soul jumps in at the moment of conception. i dont personally know...i cant recall exactly when i hopped in here...perhaps when i was 17 or 18 LOL.

sorry...i really was raised wrong.
~W~

I don't really understand this talk about souls and frozen birth signs. However, I will agree that the body has no soul before the birth stage is achieved.

Thank you all for your replies. i truly appreciate the thoughts you have all shared.

I would think that their birth sign would be from when they are born. Thats how everyone else does it! Best wishes!!!

It would have to do with the day, time and location of actual birth. I use to do natal charts and composites. Astrology is very mathematical and very intricate in nature. The cusp does not relate to the dates that people put up as dividing the signs...it has to do with degrees between the signs and where they divide. The dates are rule of thumb. You have to have the chart figured. I have had people who were say on the 19th or 20th of a month and be something like two days into the next sign because of that particular year. You really can't go by the dates unless you fall smack dab in the middle.

Some spiritualists believe the soul enters the body just before physical birth or up to two days afterward. They believe that for whatever reasons that the soul can choose to not incarnate and this accounts many times for still births or SIDS. This is just a belief and not scientific. I am not that impressed by science because of all the politics involved within it and the anamolies.

"Astrology and astronomy were archaically one and the same discipline (Latin: astrologia), and were only gradually recognized as separate in western 17th century philosophy (the "Age of Reason"). The primary goal of astronomy is to understand the physics of the universe. Astrologers use astronomical calculations for the positions of celestial bodies along the ecliptic and attempt to correlate celestial events (astrological aspects, sign positions) with earthly events and human affairs. Astronomers consistently use the scientific method, naturalistic presuppositions and abstract mathematical reasoning to investigate or explain phenomena in the universe. Astrologers use mystical/religious reasoning as well as traditional folklore, symbolism and superstition blended with mathematical predictions to explain phenomena in the universe. The scientific method is not consistently used by astrologers."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrology_and_astronomy

So the answer to this would be your particular school of thought because geocentric astrology is not the only kind.

That's would be interesting to have some on who's a Taurus but is more like a Capricorn. I wish you the best of luck though. =)

thats mind boggling.... maybe our world is just moving more into a technical era and our souls and spirituality are going to need to be guided to us or coaxed in....

I agree as well with everyone on here.. i would like to think that their sign would fall when you have him/ or her.. And I wouldnt worry so much about what will match up with you and your husband.. I think that will just happen naturally..

I think it's when the child is born, that determines its sign. My reason for that is because some people say your "birth sign." To me it makes sense that your sign is for when you are born.

why would birth cause the birthsign? wouldnt the power of the stars be felt in the womb?

if a child was conceived in a large glass beaker...and grew to term in it, when would its birth sign be attached? when it was removed from the beaker?

or when life started and the heart began to beat?

just curious as to the perception here.
~W~

Because astrology is based on the actual birthdate of the individual; birth, time and place. It is a when and where type of thing. It has nothing to do with conception. Most people don't know when that actually happens. It is best guess by when ovulation may have taken place and the egg was fertilized. This is usually calculated by the last menstral cycle. It isn't an exact science. Most people are talking about geocentric astrology which is based on the perception of the earth being the center of things rather than the sun. There are various types of astrology and depending on which one you use will hold bearing on which sign you fall under.

This is the most interesting forum i have read lately....Some excellent points are being made. I was a premature baby and i often wondered wheither i should be the birthsign that i would have been born under if i had of been born natrually or the birth sign of when i was removed and incubated.

so...one could be various signs depending on which system was used?
~W~

I would think it depends on actual date of birth,or my kids&I are all different signs then originally thought...we're all preemies,so would our signs actually be up to 3 months later,when we were supposed to have been born?...oh,great.I just confused myself again! o.O

so my question again is this....
so an egg is fertilized but never implanted in a womb and instead is allowed to grow in some sort of lab jar. what would the babies sign be? in that case would it be when the heart started to beat? or when it was taken from the jar.

if the later, what is it about the jar that keeps the stars from working on the developing child?

just curious if someone could answer.
~W~

my question is where they fertilized then immeditley frozen? then i can anwser you question better.

The only thing that I can say is take me for instance. I was originally due the first or second week of March. I ended up being born 6 weeks early on January 25. So, based on my birth day my sign is aquarius. But , If you read about the traits/characteristics of an aquarian most of it doesn't fit me. But, neither does the other one. I'm a combination of both.

When they are born. =) Where the planets are when we are born. I have wondered about that before too, about conception time and all that. I looked up what mine would have been, which would be September, which is Virgo in that time frame. It would fit me because I have a ton of Virgo in me in other areas, but when I tried it on Danny, it went to January and at the 17th, would make him Capricorn and eh, dunno about that. Will have to look into some others.

I think that with these children who will be special no doubt, It could be either and is up to you and perhaps them when they get older.