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There is something you should always watch out for when trying to discover the true origins of unnatural powers or abilities.

Manipulaters and "Evangelists" of cults and religions.

There are people out there who, even if you do not posess a certain power, they will convince you that you HAVE this power just so you will follow them. They will also promise to teach you more if you follow under them and do as they say.

I've often spoken out about the forums known as Delphiforums.com, and the dangers going there pose. A "Predator" is nothing to be proud of, nor is it the kind of person you can trust, so when you find people who profess utmost knowledge in a certain field, yet they tend to be domineering and insist on your "obedience" and "loyalty", red flags should pop up immediately. If they do not? Well... they should.

The best way to find out what you are is to compare notes. If someone promises to "train" or "teach" you, cut ties immediately. Most of these people just want a captive audience/donor they can take what they want from, all the while leading you under the delusion that you will actually be taught something while in their presence.

Study, Experience, Learn. NEVER let yourself be "humbled" by someone who claims knowledge and will teach you if you place yourself in a subservient position beneath them. If they truly know, they will either be willing to teach you, or they will not. The ones who try to lead you on with little bits and pieces of information cannot do a THING to help you, and can only stand to gain from your misfortune.

Yes, people fall like a ton of bricks for people who practice the simplest of tricks, or use the simplest of words. We as humans WANT to believe in something, no...most of us HAVE to. It is what we are. And with these scum bags who prey on peoples ignorance or grief(up yours john Edwards). They need some serious help, there isn't any lower you can get. Though sometimes with evangelists...well I do not feel as sorry for the ignorant as I do for the grief stricken or the ill.

If only Anakin Skywalker had taken your advice.....
Ok, really though, you are absolutely right in what you are saying. People can be the most gullible when given compliments. People want so much to be accepted and loved that when some one feeds them what they need to hear, they will follow the most rotten any where. People need to look inside themselves for who they are, not be told by some one who wants to take advantage of them.

It amazes me the way people will tell you to watch out for seedy salesmen and car dealers because they'll try and win you over with charisma and the pretty pictures they paint and yet these are the people who will wander like sheep into a church basement to listen to someone yell at them about hell and damnation. They are the people who will walk up to your house with bible in hand and ask you to join them. The people who promote sending homosexuals to de-gay camps, who bomb abortion clinics. I have always found that whatever feels most true to me is probably right. It is true that people are easily persuaded into believing something they want to believe. Having powers or believing in something should not include having it forced upon you. If it is then the person forcing it on you is after something else. At the risk of sounding overly paranoid I leave with this reminder: Rarely, if ever, will you find a person who does not have ulterior motives.

heh almost sounds like Hitler. Hmm besides, it should be straight up blasphemy to make money off of your god and not give ALL of it to the church or charity, i am sure he would want them to drive a porsche though.

That is so true. It bothers me so much that there are people out there who just prey on people's vulnerability and weakness. It's so disgusting. Everytime I see it happen, I just want to smack the person behind it.

Unfortunately this has gone on a long time, just look at Jim Jones and David Koresh, they both used religion to rope people in and dupe them. In these cases their lives were even stolen. People need to wake up and make their own decisions and when we see a friend or family member being lead away, don't ignore it fight back to save your loved ones.

But Bliss, if Anakin had taken this advice there would have been no sequels before the prequels...

Can't have that now, can we?

That's y u've gotta b careful... Don't trust random ppl just cuz they seem friendly or can do sumthin kool.

Perhaps someone needs a bath? :)

Personally I think people fall into these categories by looking and living within the constructs of how our society was developed.

We were/are/will be a people that divide and conquer. You are with us or against us… that which does not break you only makes you stronger… no blood no foul… some of these sayings are from school- we are continually moulded into this idea that we must be better, smarter, prettier than others.

Why would we change this based off of how we interact with people? It starts before we even begin school, why? Because our parents “said so”.

Face it, with live within hierarchy’s everywhere. Aside from the predator, there are those that assist in this everyday just to maintain their position. Not too different from the society system here on VR.

Sometimes people need to be told what to do, but to have someone intentionally mislead, you have to look out for that. I found that there have been good warning signs, such as they want to borrow money. And at worst, trust your sister. She knows you best, and would look out to make sure no one hurts you.

mrd

Not everyone here is a "vampire" and though it is an inherent trait of most "vampires" to be predatory, what people do to a grieving mother who has lost their child is wrong(speaking about the "psychics"). And the self deceit involved is disgusting...I will elaborate. Many of these people try to justify actions by telling themselves they are "helping" the bereaved. This is self deceit, something I am very much against, they are liars to everyone including themselves. Ignorant people, yes they were meant to be preyed upon in a sense, but not the grief stricken.

Hello everyone....I seem to agree with all of your views on this I agree with a little bit of everything....Preditors do not discriminate! They have one goal and that is self satisfying, and no it does not make sense. Like so many other wierd people and the crimes they commit. Then again why are we so vulnerable? Why do are we so weak that we can be mislead so easily? Can we teach ourselves to be more alert and ask questions and not be in such a hurry to feel like we need to belong and need to be loved and need to be a part of? A part of what? Do you really think that this is all going to change? All we can do so far is have an opinion about it. All we can be is disgusted by it. How can we change it if we don't look into ourselves for our own answers.

Enabling a victim into a mode of thought, which allows for the predator to acheive an emotional bond and subsequently, a psychological support structure, is as common a trait anywhere online, as it is on VR.

Even offline, in social circles and workplaces, schools and so forth, the game is played almost unconciously. The most successful in this venture, are those who recognise that they are doing it and so, can logically define the future reactions to certain of their deceptions.

In the vampyre community, it seems more of a way in which to reinforce their own sense of belonging- by assuring that they have a trusted confident(s) who will not doubt their word against another, who may point out the fallacy of their opinion.

Because if they did recognise the lie, the 'deceived' persons own belief system would be critically undermined.

The predator assists in prventing the deceived from realising their own truths, through the continual reinforcement of the deception and also, by falling into their own web of lies and often, developing into a schizophrenic state of denial, itself then reinforced by the deceived's own belief in it.

I must agree with Stabb on this one, why not?

Vampires are a very good example of the predator/prey relationship both in its good and bad forms. It serves as a very relevant metaphor here. And since this is the main forum, it is even more appropriate that this topic be looked at in this sense.

What about the good things of predators? There is also a symbiotic relationship that they can also provide. Stabb brings up an aspect of this with the emotional aspects, but I would also argue that they are not all bad. Awareness being the key to how the entire relationship between the prey and predator play out. What we are able to learn about ourselves, granted that we are willing to see the situation in its entirety.. and not just the fragments of it.

It is not the teacher that must be willing to teach you or not but the student that is willing to be taught. To be taught, you the student must loose the attitude of superiority and be humble to be able to learn. To fill the cup - the cup must be emptied first!
This does not need to be implied to vampires or learning powers. This is how you learn.

As for manipulaters, they are always out there. You know them then you see then. If you do fall for them, concern it a learning lesson and just move on. No need to beat yourself over it. It happens to us all.

Hitler said, "The great mass of people will more easily fall victim to a big lie, than to a small one." These people are all in kahutes (sp?) They must have meetings monthly. If one man says he can talk to the dead not many will listen, but if there is a handful, the masses think..."hmm, there must be something to this."

Its one thing to scam a person out of their life saving selling them stocks. "Buyer Beware" Its an entirely different thing to take grieving souls and screw them out of money in the hope that grandpa will say hi, and tell them where he left his favorite hat.

What if it is the manipulator that beats you? What life lesson to you learn from being dead--the sort of predator/prey death that could be possible due to circumstances of the internet?

mrd

Once again, I will say that I am not talking about vampires, read my first post, it has absolutely nothing to do with them. And I am entitled to believe an upset mother should not be profited from. It is really very simple. And of course it would also be very simple to say, well fuck everyone why not screw around with any ones head. It would be rather pathetic for someone to just go after the first person they see in pain, there is a such thing as an opportunist, and then someone who acts on instinct alone. And picking at every opinion isn't doing much. Lets not make this about something it isnt, we are talking about greedy people...normal everyday people.

antieveryone,

I am quite certain that the topic of the thread was initiated by Max and his assertion- that there are certain people, psychological 'Predators', who will be willing to convince another that they have an extra-ordinary 'power' of some kind, that they are different and a cut above the rest, in order to aid with their own manufactured ideas of who and what they are.

I fully understand this to be a prevalent problem within the vampyre community, with certain individuals, who will say such things as- "Message me to know more." or "I can tell you if you are a vampyre."

The gist of the original post is quite clear to me, as it appears to others as well- which is that enabling as discussed here, applies to those who wish to convince others of 'special' abilities, in order to open a personal connection from which to satisfy a nefarious desire.

It seems to me that you are the one missing the point here, in attempting to apply it to a more general sense.

Maximillion seemed to know exactly what I was saying, oh well.

DID ANYONE ACTUALLY READ what AntiEveryone said in the beginning of all this? Might want to go back and read her words. Some of you have misconstrued them to suit your own needs for this topic.

I am certain that Max did see what your point was, but since I and a few others, are replying to Max's initial post, but from another angle, I don't see why you are getting your heckles up.

Well who was AntiEveryone replying to then? She was also replying to his initial post. It got turned to vampires for some odd reason at the top there, which I can see that point...but it wasn't the one that was started.

I just personally stayed very close to the topic presented. All I was saying was I was not the one who started on vampires. I was protesting greedy people, i myself like a challenge, if we are to justify predatory behavior, then I suppose we should condone sexual predatory as well. You cant be too choosy.

"There is something you should always watch out for when trying to discover the true origins of unnatural powers or abilities."

Is the actual point which was started.

Mine and others take on that, led to the posts which we made.

Since when was it dictated that only your interperatation was allowed?

This is a vampire forum, so I will talk about this aspect of social psychology in that sense.

If you don't like that, tough luck, but you don't have to respond, or even read it, if you don't want to.

As far as I concern myself with it, it does appear to be a significant issue.

So much so that even the more famous authors actively advise people to 'seek your own truth'.

"Since when was it dictated that only your interperatation was allowed?"

The funny part is, I never needed it to be only my "interpretation", I simply defended myself when it was said that I was speaking about vampires. I couldn't care much less about if it is about vampirism or greedy people or anything else, it is all the same. But I digress. Things are bound to get heated now and again, that should be expected and anticipated.

o.0

Your assumption was that I directed my post specifically at you...

Which I did not.

O.o

be more specific next time. I had no indication to tell me otherwise that I am aware of. But, sorry about that.

I think there have been many assumptions made here.

The first is that MrD's posting was ONLY about vampires. Read it again, it starts out saying he finds irony that this question is being posed in a Vampire Forum. The rest of what he says does not only apply to vampires, it applies to predators in general.

Second assumption, that everything being said is meant as a personal attack. It is not, but the nature of discussion is to talk about similarities and differences. If you don't like that we were discussing the topic as it pertains to vampires, perhaps a person with that opinion should seriously question why they are on a VAMPIRE web site. Not only that in the MAIN forums where it is plainly stated, “VAMPIRES, VAMPIRE RAVE, and PARALLEL TOPICS”.

And no, I do not mean for people who call themselves "vampires" but those that like the lore and all aspects of this creature. You cannot look at vampire lore, stories and not see the predator/prey relationship play out. Why not bring up this glaring direct look in this parallel topic? Yes Max started out in one direction. However to say the metaphor we are using is not appropriate or related is a fallacy at best.

Finally, in general it has been assumed that all predatory actions are negative. MrD brought up that there are good relationships possible, and I had asked what were some of the positive ones as those exist to, a symbiotic relationship. I am still hoping someone will bring this out. Such as Shamans… there I started this yet another parallel.

If you do not wish to take part in a discussion or feel that you answer is the only right answer, perhaps it is best not to post.

Personally I think a grieving mother is one of the prime targets for real world predators. Easy pickings. Yum Yum!

Do I feel this is right?

No, *sigh*

But the world is not full of well wishes and candy canes kiddies. My point being, if we look into the darkness around us, we are less likely to be picked off first. Eventually at some point we may get fleas and be lucky to fend off predators. But by the time we are old, again we become prime targets. Even lions, will hunt the old and feeble, and those that have fallen behind of a herd first, it is a guaranteed meal. Keep yourself aware, fit and strong. After all it is Darwin's way.

Fascinating topic. Anyone with an agenda of any sorts, even one that appears harmless, has the potential to harm others. Everyone may be familiar with the Rev. Jims Jones of People's Temple/Mass Suicide infamy. I read once that as a child a neighbor would observe him lining up several other kids and walking along
spanking them with a stick. What is most frightening is that the neighbor would observe the same children return the next day for the same abuse to be repeated. I am always wary of anyone who is slightly preachy or has any type of axe to grind. It seems that false profits and self styled gurus are running amock through out the land. The main motives
appear to be personal power and prestige as well as monetary gain. I always am careful when I meet a new person to determine if they talk to me or at me. I try and listen much better than I write or speak. I also keep my head slightly bowed and try to have the utmost respect for everyone regardless of their station or life circumstances. Power Freaks are a particular threat to people like ourselves who enjoy open minded and unpredjudicial interaction. A certain amount of individual vigelance is always need to prevent the usurpers from stealing one's thunder.

Any mainstream religion does the same thing. Any type of committee as well, wether it's political, a school board, etc. It all gets out of hand as soon as they get the upperhand. Most of the time the people delude themselves in some (so called) righteous cause. You really have to ask yourself " How can what they are saying be benefitting them?" to get the clear of it.

ah, the politics of the mind.. how deep do we have to go? and can we survive the real test? sometimes I don't think we can.. because to delve that deep might cause us to cease to be.. at least in that moment, if it makes any sense at all.. it's possible to teach.. but to teach by leading.. not enforcing.. my .02$

I have noticed that people tend to let someone mentor them because it is easier being told what you are and what to believe than figuring it out for yourself.

I find the interpretations thus far fascinating. As a Psychology major, you are all describing the same type of individual, a psychopath or sociopath. These types of people tend to have the same characteristics...such as being very charismatic, a polar opposite personality kept hidden, a penchant for violence, and no remorse for their actions. We know that such people exist, we know they prey on others. But to say that those they prey on "deserve what they get" is a gross exaggeration. These types of people are often very good at hiding exactly what they are until it is too late. It is why so many of them are able to evade detection. I highly recommend being skeptical and using common sense when dealing with the unknown. Sometimes though, that is not enough, and the blame cannot be laid at the feet of the victim. To me that would be an unforgivable injustice.

There are some people who are able to seek out those who are in need and they are just as able to pick up on that need at the time. They cater to the individuals need, make them feel loved, etc. This just lays the ground work for the "perpatrater" to get what they want from the person- many times it happens so smoothly that the person just doesn't see it coming. It's not just with the run of the mill televangelist or occult person- it happens all the time. To the elderly when their house is damaged in a storm and as if by a miracle a person shows up on the doorstep who is supposedly able to fix the damamge. It is human nature to trust- especially if your defenses are down- you are just more suseptable at different times.

I agree with you one hundred percent. Many people call my clan a cult and we only ask that you help bring an understanding of dragons back to the world.

There are some really good points in this discussion...

I think that sometimes folks that are led into these situations for different reasons. It may be that they were vulnerable due to self-esteem issues or perhaps they have always be followers and were never rewarded in any sense for making their own decisions. Along comes someone who "shows interest" in their well being and carries their prey into some terrible situation. It is a shame that their are people that have these evil intentions and prey on those who generally believe in the good of all people. I personally have learned from some hard lessons in life and I Trust No One...maybe that is harsh..but that is me.

People are weak. So easily are their feeble mind's tricked that new people are falling "prey" to the "predators" every day. If this is insensative, my SINCEREST apoligies, I am an asshole but that does not mean I cannot state my opionon. So remeber children, when cult master so and so starts to preach about how great it can all be and how he can take it all away...Dont litsen. It means trouble.
Hail the Strong,
-Adrian D. Voorhies.

People can promise you the world and not give anything just to get someone to follow then. People need to be careful with what they start to do or who they get involved with...anyone can pretend to be anyone else.

Some of this remendes me of the other thread about people who look for supernatural reasons rather than logical ones. On some level I think everyone wants to feel special and unique. There are master manipulators and con men who have an uncanny sense of when peoples gaurds are down and can play on this. I don't think anyone is 100% immune. No matter how strong your gaurd, at some point it'll slip and there may just be a predator there. One just hopes that you have friends around to look out for you.

I've seen this countless times. It's like the pop out of the ground like daisys. I hate how they use your abilities, whatever it is your capable of, and twist and bend it so that you'll follow them to learn more.

On the other side of the coin those that fall into the trap of following these false prophets and leaders need to stop giving up their power and acting like sheep. Fundamentalists that give over their personal power and their entire life become dangerous to society... I always wonder why someone would give themselves up so completely to follow some crazy person... like that asian cult that drank the bath water of their guru... its twisted and sick!

i agree with bloodyvampirerose. things are better when someone tells you what to do. then some people just do better telling people what to do. basicly followers and leaders

I think we have all in some ways of our lives been told what we can & can't do! Some people need rules. So they follow people who are ready to give them! For some it is easier with boundaires & the other person(s) provide this for them! It's just as someone stated earlier..there are leaders & followers. It just depends on what you are. Not all leaders are bad, or will lead there followers in a bad way or mistreat them. Some will, yes, but you can't jusdge all based on the ones that do!

it seems Manipulation is everywhere.. even in supermarkets to buy certain things.

But I do find myself wondering how Cukts can get SO BIG. Like, People believe they get these powers, From the cult! I believe some people ARE gifted in psychic powers.
But I do not believe that they can GET these powers by joining a cult.
I understand we all need a sense of belonging and meaning to life.
I have known of many people turning to God, as their last hope.. ie.. when they have lost direction, henceforth, become depressed and vulnerable.

I think that many people are simply happier to have someone else do the thinking for them. The majority of the world prefers only a few choices and nothing more. To try and follow a path of self discovery and to try to find your own beliefs and faith is a difficult and long path. I have found that the average person is just as happy to go with whatever faith they were raised with or to follow whatever faith is the most common. Float like a leaf on the current and have someone else figure it all out. It's true in politics, religion, culture and even as was mentioned earlier...in supermarkets.

A study was done where people were offered 14 different types of peanut butter or 3 types. The people with less choices were happier because they felt they had a choice but not so many that it made things difficult. The same is true with religion or politics...most people want to feel like they've made some decision but nothing that required too much effort or research.

I agree with AntiEveryone, in that, most people need something to believe in, something to organize their life........And therefore are eager to find something that can do it and get others to follow....for, another human necessity is affirmation of whatever they are doing. People want to know that they are doign the right thing, and by pressing their beliefs on others it makes their beliefs right, to them.

Well i have always been a leader not a follower so I don't have this problem ...But for the one's that do it is truly sad they are taken in by lies....

I don't think there is anything strange about the roles we all play in life- some are followers, some are leaders. Alpha types that thrive on power, and more submissive types that would rather be led. There's nothing odd about that. We're just talking about different personalities here, and with this type of thing~ only experience can teach a person.

I still believe that many victims of abuse of power are merely lazy and perhaps earned their just desserts. I would of course also say that issues like grief could allow for an easier target but so many victims of 'cult worship' are just lazy about faith.

Putting yourself in a 'student/teacher' relationship doesn't open you up to danger or abuse in and of itself. To be taken, requires that you put much more 'faith' in a leader or teacher that would normally be required to learn. One has to abdicate their own sense of observation, to stop seeing what in truth is rarely a very good con to begin with. Cults often have followers who after opening their eyes, realized how 'obvious' the initial danger was.

To want to believe is one thing. To be so lazy about self discovery as to leave it completely up to someone else to tell you all about what is and isn't true seems...pretty sad in and of itself. Faith and religion is supposed to be about the eternity you will experience after death (be that reincarnation, 'heaven/hell', spirits or hauntings, or ascension to the stars as some new god). That's a pretty big issue to leave up to some high school educated tent revivalist whose never left his county or to leave to some guru who seems more intent on driving gold plated Cadillacs while you give up all your worldly possessions. It could be considered the most important belief you will ever hold. So it smacks of outright laziness not to try and learn for yourself what that might be or what you might believe.

Not all Teacher/Student relationships are bad...
I have a number of people here who teach me daily as I love learning.
I also Teach as I can I would never place someone into the bind of believing I know more of a subject then they do when teaching the role of the teacher is to learn also....
For the people out there that have ego's that need to belittle and harm other people well in the long run they get what is coming to them they always fall..
It is very sad that sometimes ther followers fall as well...
Their will always be people out there ready to con and people out there willing to be conned into this kind of stituation...
We can advise them till we're blue in the face do they listen most times??? I havent found this to be true they do exactly what they want because they believe what they are told..
This happens in all contexts not only religious or political in all walks of life....
This is my opinion only

Part of it is taking the "knowledge is power" idea to a very unhealthy place. I tend to be a rationalist, and believe knowledge should be shared.

The problem with all this is that you could twist these experiences into anything you want. Normal legitimate groups could now start being called cults.

Just use some common sense getting paranoid over it isn't going to help.

people use people to get what they want. they don't care what others think. they will do anything to get someone to follow them just so they can have power or feal like they have power over someone.

It just strikes me as taking an almost conscious effort to allow oneself to be so completely misled or very weak minded indeed.

One can hardly pass the blame around without at least giving some share of that to the undeniably stupid or gullible.

FelixFelix I would think its more an unconscience thing they want to be led they think if this guy/gal says they know the way maybe they do..Then they dont have to think for themselves it is the lazy way out but they do it all the time...

Hrm, as for spiritual leaders fooling people into thinking they suddenly have some wonderful power it takes to to tell a lie and the person who was ignorant enough to let themselves be fooled need to be more wary.

Many people need something and/or someone to believe in. Religious organizations whether legitimate or not, prey on this need in others.

I must agree that people have to beleive in someone or something. People need the reasurance that there loved ones who have passed are happy and still look over them. They need that closure and that void filled. With that said there are people who prey on that need and take advantage of the weak.

great point. Always question any one who claims to possess a "power", there is plenty of fakes.

I must agree with others when they say that we, as humans, seek someone or something to believe in. It is utterly sickening to see someone who has already placed themselves in a subserviant postion and will do nothing to even so much as listen to what you have to say when you even mention that they are being controlled and taken advantage of.