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There are many threads regarding Energy, as most people who practice magic or other occult sciences deal heavily with "energy" but we fail to define that energy. Kinetic and Potential are two states of energy. Kinds of energy include thermal, chemical, and nuclear and help us describe the events which occur around us on a mundane level.

I fear that our use of the word "energy" is a little too loose and wonder if we actually know what it is that we are using. Response?

Wolfsbohne,

Are you asking to define what 'form' of energy is used in so-called 'Magickal' practices, or something else please?

I have some difficulty in understanding what your question is aiming for.

Hmm. Energy, thats a wide spectrum subject. hehe get it?! wow i'm lame.

There are different sorts of energy, lots of them. Id say a good start would be to say energy radiates. It is invisible in the types that i can think of right now, and it's reactive.

My goal is to find out if we understand the actual energy. We label certain energies by the way in which they are used - Solar energy because of the Sun, chemical energy because of the chemistry involved, etc.

Someone posted in another thread that thoughts themselves may not be energy because they can not be measured. Brain activity, yes, but not the actual thought. So it made me think, ironically. Frequently in the forums I find that many throw the word "energy" about as though it was an all encompassing term, and I wonder if we could be a little more categorical when we speak of it.

My question would be when talking in a Metaphysical sense, what are the types of energy we generically refer to and what are their properties that justify them to be called such?

The link is very useful, thank you Staab.

I personally feel that the energy that is referred to the most is the chakra enerigies that are released when at a heightened sense.

There are many forms of energy. We have our personal energy, natural and man made. Thats as simple as I can break it down! I guess you would define energy as what it would be used for.

I agree that we define energy by its use or origin, however your question is a bit complicated because when you break everything down far enough it all becomes energy right?

well all it matter is what kind of energy it is. i would guess it is billions of differents energyes.

I think energy is just one whole unit, that can "appear" in different forms. No matter how you break it down, it all returns back to the same thing.

There's the thing. "Thing". It all comes back to the same "thing". What is that "thing"? Energy may all be energy, but do we understand what that energy is, it's core value. It's base. Only then can we describe different types, qualify them by properties, and label them. In this way we may more fully understand the different forms in the way that they "appear". If they all have the same base, what is that base? What is that "thing" that these energies develop from?

We all know, or should know, that amino acids and proteins are the building blocks for RNA and DNA. Can we break down those metaphysical energies and understand their core value in a similar fashion?

Light, or solar, energy's basic core is the photon - a single dot of light. In the mundane world, we learned how to mechanically harness that energy and use it for human purposes such as greenhouse farming. Then we began to understand it more fully and designed ways to use it more efficiently (solar panels). Chemical, atomic, and nuclear energy first stem from the atomic interactions of elements. Not fully understanding those interactions leads to disasters such as Chernobyl.

The question may be too complicated to answer but, by understanding these complications, "magic" may be more efficiently and safely harnessed for the benefit of all involved. Ignorance may be bliss but it is still the greatest danger known to our world.

So what am I looking for as an answer? Definitely not a quick one. So far, the link above has fit the bill.

Getting a bit technical in a very non complex way..... Everything is made of energy.... Yes there are different types with scientific names, but at the end of the day, we as humans, the objects around, us.... well just look around... if you can see it... its made of energy. lol.

Speaking for myself, I will never be able to understand the scientific aspect of the question you pose for us.

I can understand and sypathise when people ( like me ) speak of energy in non science talk.

Personally I view energy as the most natural and simple thing.....that's the best way I can explain it.

well i feel it depends on the topic of Energy that one is discussing whether it be in magical,physical, solar, or any other form . Just whatever the conversation Topic is focused on as to what Energy one is referring to.

Wolfsbohne,

The way I see it, is in terms of information.

You mention light photons. These packets of energy carry information about the last interaction they had at a sub-atomic scale.

Hence the reason why the eye is able to see and the brain interpret when light hits it, after being refracted from an object with mass.

As the photon enters the quantum field, it passes the information to the particles there, changing them as it does, as well as picking up the new information about the state of that individual field, so that when it leaves and moves to the next, the photon has new information to impart and gain.

Extrapolate this to occur trillions upon trillions of times per second, then consider that as it travels so fast, it (light), effectively tells the universe where it is at any point in time- one could call it the refresh rate of the universe.

Then consider that since light bounces off and passes into our personal mass and energy field, it is changed by that ineraction and with this realisation, it can then be manipulated, either consciously or non-consciously by our thoughts, which create expressions of movement, emotion, chi (ki) and hypothetically, psionics.

energy is purely the action/reaction of change...

Isn't the question "what is energy" very similar to the question "what is god"? Both questions are very subjective based on the views and beliefs of the individual. You won't get 2 responses the same out of a group. So here's my 2 cents.

Energy is something that gives something else power or abilities.

Therefore. Sunlight is energy, as it gives plants etc power. Food is energy, as it powers the body. Electricity is energy, as it powers my computer so I can sit here and spout my beliefs at you. Beliefs are energies, as they power actions and emotions. Emotions are energies, as they power or enable others.

The list of things that can be defined as an energy is endless. It is what you believe and choose to be energy that matters.

Drakontion,

I sincerely believe that what you have just stated is next to nonsense.

Energy is both observable and measurable, it is quantifiable and real, existent and undeniable.

God, is a choice of faith and belief in something which is none of those things. To try and equate the two as you have, is spurious to this discussion.

But in one respect, I can relate this- in that perhaps God is the embodiment of the entirety of the universes' energy.

All things as one come to create, or are created within the supreme being.

STABB, that's ok, you're entitled to your beliefs and opinions, exactly the same as I am. I don't particularly care if you chose to disbelieve what I believe in. I'm not here to obtain your approval. I'm here to share my beliefs.

well said,and again like dark matter that is everywhere and in all things yet cant be measured by any conventional means , at least not yet it is in and of itself a form of energy, perhaps the very thing that allows other forms of energy to exists,it is still not fully understood and is a new thing for science to explore,it was only recently a theory and now is becomming closer to being a fact......maybe even its what allows the physics in our universe to funtion the way they do....its been theorized that in other galaxies with different elements and conditions in place that there physics may even be different.

Drakontion,

This is not my 'belief', it is the stated opinion and accepted facts from the scientific investigations of particle physics.

Closing your eyes and pretending that you have a valid point because it is 'your opinion', is a particularly ignorant form of debate.

Thank you Stabb. I apologize for spelling your name wrong earlier. Your response in terms of light transfer to psionics was excellent.

yeah, i kinda believe you on that one. if so, then a lot of people do not know how to use it properly.

stated opinion and excepted fact seem to contradict your theory excuse...lol...i guess brian greene had it all wrong about the whole quantum and dark matter thing huh?.....all well, who am i to argue this point? lol

To a degree, I agree with Drakontion.
If I look to the Moon, the extra 'energy' I feel has come from somewhere, whether it be my 'Chi'.. or a mortal mental thing.

But, when it happens, it's very real.

atyourwindow,

Would you instead be prepared to discuss how M-Theory links in with Quantum Physics and General Relativity?

STABB, at the risk of sounding like I'm flogging a dead horse, we are not here to debate "stated opinion and accepted facts from the scientific investigations of particle physics." We are here to talk about items of a "vampire, gothic, occult, or paranormal nature". There is no scientific basic for most of this. It is mostly folklore, conjection, belief and opinion, with a good dash of mysticism thrown in for seasoning. You want to talk science, go find some sort of sciency website to debate it in. This is not the place.

Drakontion,

At risk of sounding trite myself, perhaps since this thread is intended for the discussion of energy, which I can find several examples of it's use in vampire and more generally, occult subjects, I would suggest that it is you who is in the wrong forum, since you have contributed very little of any discernible value to this discussion.

Well this discussion seems to be going the wrong way all together but the arguement does bring up a good point. Yes it is mysticsm and the like but the occult studies were the original sciences and so to further and more aptly understand "magic" it is best to speak in terms of mundane, mathematical, scientific terms. Occult literally means hidden. Too many people have taken the word to mean "magic" itself. The word hidden alludes to the fact that these sciences were hidden from the public education.

Let's not lose sight of how everything we are discussing is indeed connected. Unfortunately, opinion in science is negligible unless you are an expert on the subject and have evidence to support that opinion.

R:

We are using awareness, pure.

Energy to my simple thinking is simply what you use to create activity and how you expend it.

the ability to do work. it is not neccesary to define the type of energy.

Thank you Epic. That is a great web page. At this point, then, combined with and similar to Stabb's answer, the thought process should be - how does this definition from modern science apply to magical studies?

Let me first start by saying that this thread is one of the best I've seen. I've been looking for the true intelect of the people on this site for a long time, and I have finally found a bit of it.

But here I go :)

Energy is the capacity of a physical system to perform work. Energy exists in several forms such as heat, kinetic or mechanical energy, light, potential energy, electrical, or other forms.
According to the law of conservation of energy, the total energy of a system remains constant, though energy may transform into another form. Two billiard balls colliding, for example, may come to rest, with the resulting energy becoming sound and perhaps a bit of heat at the point of collision.

Energy is an always changing thing. It is ( being ) itself. Energy is every thing.

Heat, sound ,light, energy itself, .... is all a by product, and at the same time it is still energy itself. Energy is the crudest and most pure form of "all" , of matter , of heat, of life, of light, everything.

Someone in another thread made the suggestion that thoughts (will) may not be energy because they can not be measured to contain energy, which I strongly disagree with.

In each frame of action there are three main ingredients - object one, the point of contact or a focul point, and object two. These three things are absolutely necessary for energy transfer. On a grand scale, we could suppose that the practitioner is object one, the effect object two, and the will being the point of contact or focul point. Obviously it isn't quite as simple as all that - there is a much more complicated path similar to that of the nerves, axioms, and dendrites of a nervous system responding to pain.

The will itself must go through a process of initiation, growth, and then expulsion. That point of expulsion is the focul point, or in the case of pushing a ball - it is the hand actually connecting with the ball. From here it should becoming clearer why it is necessary to fully understand what type of energy it is you are using - rather than just saying it's all energy.

Energy transfer is the manipulation of an initial contact. Stabb explained how light passes to the individual, and from that transfer the individual may manipulate that energy and redirect it to something else. There is energy transfer from foods and medicines which we may also manipulate and transfer as we deem fit. Anything that comes in contact with our bodies and or minds will have an energy transfer, and it should be fully understood how to manipulate and expell those energies in as many various forms as they are taken in.

Very well said.

*bows* Thank you.

hum quantum physics. is this is what we are talking about with energy..

does any one know what the difenition of theoy is.... well i believe the define word is some ones opinion .. doesnt mean fact, before its fact it has to be done by alot of science people..

i use energy to get up in the morning and it takes alot of it so ...

Shining - it's not just theory. It's applied on a daily basis.

Assume you drink a caffeinated substance. That caffeine will most likely have an energetic effect on you, which may manifest itself by helping you get out of bed in the morning.

During the 1700's a Frenchman by the name of Mesmer devised a way of treating patients, where they were basically anesthesised to all contact by thought alone. He coined it Animal Magnetism. Obviously, he came under fire by the medical community of the time so an international group of highly educated men went to investigate. They found that his work was rather impressive and we know of it now as hypnotism. One of the investigators was the world renowned Benjamin Franklin - just to add a bit of validity to the statement. Unfortunately, many of the theories of Mesmer were very primitive and as a result the scientific community, including Benjamin Franklin, was able to debunk much of his work.

That notwithstanding, hypnosis, hypnotherapy, and stage hypnotism have been refined, studied, and practiced for more than two hundred years as a result of Mesmer. The ability to transfer your thoughts to another is a form of magic and energy transfer - tried, tested, and true.

thank you i guess i have know argument. almost every were i read some one says theory and sence you see it being used as a daily basis i cant seem to argu it cause you are right.. thanks for the educational thread

I hope I didn't offend you Shining. That wasn't my intent, I was simply trying to provide evidence and support.

I also have to correct myself. Mesmer wasn't French, he was Austrian. BIG difference.

Wolfsbohne you didnt offend me at all you have insight and i agree with you..

that theory word just bugs me some what ..
i like to know the facts of things and I know even if a bunch of people have there theory just still really doesnt prove any thing..
thats all..

sence i looked and done some reading this may help or not so here ya go..

..energy..

Definition: Energy is the capacity of a physical system to perform work. Energy exists in several forms such as heat, kinetic or mechanical energy, light, potential energy, electrical, or other forms.
According to the law of conservation of energy, the total energy of a system remains constant, though energy may transform into another form. Two billiard balls colliding, for example, may come to rest, with the resulting energy becoming sound and perhaps a bit of heat at the point of collision.

Essentially energy turns out to be whatever you make it.
Your energy is just that.
YOURS

bmmp.

Well my opinion, energy is the mass on space which lead to act or move other things...

and these energies are of many level and kind...


In human it is said that just like body of skin, bones and flesh and physical parts is a layer, there is one layer of energies... which bubbling in each cell and there is one level of energy too which moves along with the senses over the body or inside the body along with the prana. for example when you feel th breathe moving in from nostril to chest and with breathe in when it is expanded to route chakra and then breateh out expanded from nostril to crown it is the prana moves along with the energy and prana is essence of living force which lead energy to move in the body.

Look up Einstein's equation E=mc2, which explains the massive amount of energy released from mass. Mass and energy are one in the same, because they are closely releated to the amount energy released from atoms. Nuclear reacters release alot of heat energy.

I'd have to say the energy that we use is from what i understand to be ryoku, chi, or lifeforce.