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In the book Sweetblood by Pete Hautman, the main character - Lucy Szabo - writes an English paper about her theory on the origins of vampries. It is on pages 27 - 32. I will post an excerpt here [[her theory is basically summed up at the end, most of this is background info she gives to support it]]:

"...vampire legends are based on actual fact. Vampires were (and are) real, as I shall prove in the following paper.
Most of the modern ideas...come from...Dracula [by Bram Stoker]. Count Dracula...drank blood to stay alive. ...Bram Stoker got many of his ideas from Romanian folk legends and reading about...Vlad Dracula.
...when vampire stories got started there was little knowledge about diseases and medicine.
...Even thousands of years ago there was some knowledge of diabetes.
...diabetics take insulin and test our blood glucose (sugar)...But before insulin was discovered, things didn't go so good for diabetics. Without insulin to turn glucose into energy, the body's cells literally starved to death. The untreated diabetic would get hungry and thirsty, but the more they ate the sicker they got. The sugars would build up in their blood until they were so sweet that their body would start burning up fat and muscle and eventually tehre would be nothing left. But...an untreated diabetic might take weeks or months to die, and her body might go through some very peculiar changes on it's journey from life to death.
...This is what might have happened to a diabetic teenage girl in the Middle Ages.
The first thing is, she starts getting very hungry and thirsty...At first her parents are angry at her because they are poor and greul is not free. But she can't stop herself from eating everything in sight. Soon she starts losing weight. She is eating like a pig, but the food is going right through her. Her parents are afraid she might be possessed.
...Weeks go by...she is pale and smells sweet, like honey. She sleeps most of the day...when she awakens she is hungry and thirsty.
...after a week...her skin becomes pale and beaded with sweat, her lips are ruby red, and she has a peculiar, acrid odor.
...the mother brings the girl a chicken leg...the mother recoils from what she sees - the girl's teeth have grown longer, and her mouth is bloody...her breath reeks like a stew of rotton fruit and fetid meat; her eyes are so dilated that they look like black holes...
...the girl staggers out of the cottage...as teh midday sun strikes her she screams and covers her eyes and crumples...her skin is white as a fish's belly, her hair has fallen out in patches, her limbs are thin as broom handles...
The next morning the girl is still and unresponsive. Her forehead is icy cold. There is no sign of life. The mother tells the father that the girl is dead...
But that night a strange thing happens. The girl awakens...she staggers through the cottage, confused and terrified...the mother sees her and screams...[the girl] claps her hands to her ears...she runs from the cottage...[and] wanders off into the countryside. The next day some villiage boys find her lying motionless in a...feild...[the villagers] decide to burn her quickly...the girl's body is placed atop the enormous pile of dry logs and branches. The preist throws a torch onto the pyre...[the villagers] see the shape of the girl. She erupts...into their midst...then she dies, for real this time.
...All of the symptoms I described are possible symptoms of untreated diabetes. The sweet smell of too much glucose in the blood, the strange, acrid reek of advanced ketoacidosis, the rotten smell of bacterial infection. Madness, ravenous hunger, extreme sensitivity to sunlight and sound, bleeding, receding gums (that make her teeth look longer), cold, clammy skin, and deathlike coma - all resulting from untreated diabetes. Even the spontaneous, repeated revival from a deathlike coma is possible.
...diabetes in the Middle Ages led to teh folktales that led to Bram Stoker's book that led to Anne Rice's novels and 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer' and all the other vampire stuff. Diabetics were the original, the real vampires."



What do you think, could this theory maybe have some pertinence?

back a 100 years ago it could of been possible..... most these days would of rushed her to the hosipital.....

These days they would, yes. I'm not talking about these days though, it's just an interesting theory about where Vampire legends started. Assuming vampries aren't real, I think this could be fairly accurate.

it does sound like some thing that could of happened, and the girl just went into a diabtic comma. and the people around her just missed what was wrong with her.

okay it is possible to happen yes but it has to do with diabetes & shows no fortude for a vampire because vampires drink blood & that thoery you state says no where she drinks blood at so unless you have more this subject is of high irrelevance

well think back on your history.... back in those days people wasn't too swift back then..... and could of mis en screwed it as her being a blood drinker.....

many legends and myths come from medical conditions no one knew anything about when they appeared in human history 100s of years ago.
i think that a person suffering from diabetes could very well have contributed to the legend of the blood drinking, light sensitive, night dwelling vampire..
it's very interesting to read this. it's accurate, and i had never quite thought about the connection before.
it's something to think about and research further, for sure
thanks for posting it

I believe it is quite possible that it was a contributing factor there are other diseases that have also been pointed to such as rabies and TB. When you combine the effects of those and probably other diseases with the lack of knowledge of what happens to a corpse after death you get the legend of the supernatural vampire. There is a very good book on the subject it's listed in the database called The Science of Vampires. I don't recall the name of the author.

My mother was a diabetic for over 20 yrs before she died...and she never once showed "Vampire" like symptoms.Im sorry but you need to read up on diabetics and the symptoms of being one.

Ah but I'm sure your mother was being treated for it too. The symptoms that were spoke of were long term untreated diabetes.

I have been an insulin dependant diabetic for 17 years. MANY of the symptoms described are spot on for an untreated insulin dependant diabetic. My condition was mis-diagnosed when I initially went to the doctor with symptoms. Due to a diet I was on attempting to loose weight I was drinking massive amounts of water (part of the diet), I was peeing ALL the time (hell I was drinking all that water), I was insanely HUNGRY (as I was on the diet!) and I was losing weight radidly (YEAH...It was a great diet!). The doctor assumed all of this was a result of the diet and told me to stop dieting and eat. So I did...2 days later, after eating like a pig, I had lost 15 more pounds, was pale, weak, could barely walk and had many of the outward signs described above. A new doctor and a few day in ICU and I was MUCH better. Back in the times before modern mediine, I would have just fell into a diabetic coma and died.

I find this a plausable basis for some of the classical charactaristics of a Vampire.

Very interesting

Diabties is a a different swing on the cause of vampires . I always thought of it more as a blood condition that caused the blood it self to be unstadle . Found that very thought provoking

Makes perfect sense! wow I am not diabetic but I am anemic always have been since I was a baby now when I feed I feel energetic and better but only for awhile if I don't I do get symptoms...hmmn

This is very interesting. I agree it makes sense. I am diabetic, so it's also kind of scary. I sure am glad I have medication. I'll bet the bleeding gums had a little to do with the whole needing to drink blood idea. Or perhaps it came from someone so raveniously hungry that they were seen eating half raw or raw meat. And eating the meat could have helped sustain them for a longer time if they were not getting any carbs as it would have perhaps evened them out a little so to speak. Well, I am really speculating here, but we will really never know for sure I guess.

Ya... I read that book, it was very interesting, but I don't think that's plausible, since the idea of a vampire has been around a lot longer than the middle ages, as far as religion goes. The Sumerian's were the first to believe in any vampire object, Lilith.

yes these diabetes may have had the symtoms of a vampire but it is still irelevant because even if they are not swift they still did not drink blood & until there is factual evindence that a diabetes will they can not be considered a vampire

the only problem i see with the teory is that vampires are dead none of there organs work . not just the pancreas

I have heard that before... really I don't know enough about diabetes myself to say wheather I think it's right or not... when I read things like this I used to always find something missing... but then again at the time I had started to study up on vampires and knew things that I have forgotten already... hmm. So yes.. it's a possiblity I guess... if over the years things get streched beyond the truth, which happens a lot.

I believe this could be one example but I believe there were other conditions as well that lead to the myth and the belief. There probably was not just one cause throughout history.

thank you shadowfever... thats what I was trying to say but you did it much better and in only one sentence.

Another theory was a deisese, I can't recall the name right off my head, but it coused a certain type of comma, where the people were beileved to be dead, usually they were buried fast back then to prevent the body from decaying, however they would often awake to find themselves in a coffin adn would claw at the box while they slowly died. Also after death hair and fingernails continue to grow for a time. So you can imagine if you opened a casket of a loved one and saw the claw marks and the changes to the body it would appear they had tried to rise from the dead, when in all actuallity they had been buried alive in a coma.

diabetics is not the origin of vampires, but it did i believe contuned the storys of them and to where we are today as vampires. untreated diabetics hundreds and thousands of years ago would have systoms of that. not so much the blood drinking with it. one's grandmother haveing it, i am sure she was treaded for her diabetics. back then in the time of the girl, there was no meds for it then.

utahvamp, i can't think of the name either and have come across reading the same of that comma as well. there hearts would almost come to a stop and there breathing would be so slow it wouldn't show up.... in that time, they have come across so old printing of things they would do for people in case they was buried alive, i'll look for a site for that.....lol

Foreverlasting -
The bleeding gums and fang-like appearance of the teeth could have contributed to the thought of "OMG this person drinks blood." And as someone before me mentioned, tales get stretched and fantastical as time goes on.


As for the Sumerian theory, I hadn't heard that.

Then again, like someone else said, often times legends and myths have multiple sources...like, vampires are from all over or some such.

The problem with that theory as I said before, there were a lot more religions before the middle ages, a few examples of this are Sumeria, Greek, and India. There is a lot more to vampires, than is originally though I think. Also vampires date back much further than most people think, which is they started in Christianity. All of those religions had different faiths but they all believe in a common vampire, that supposedly took children at night.

Thank you for your kind comments about my post and the link did help .

TO let everyone know in demonology a succubus is a demon that has taken female form . She suduces her prey and divours there soul . Some cultures belive they enter your dreams as well .

{{ The sugars would build up in their blood until they were so sweet that their body would start burning up fat and muscle and eventually tehre would be nothing left. But...an untreated diabetic might take weeks or months to die, and her body might go through some very peculiar changes on it's journey from life to death }}


As a diabetic for over 10 years, I can with all honesty, say the above paragraph is pure BS. Any diabetic knows when their suger is elevated, you crave WATER. The water floods your system and helps to rid the body of excess glucose (sugar). It does NOT make your blood any sweeter, it's not sugar as in what you put in kool-aid and sweet tea.

thank you for the above post . I have several family members that are diabetic , however i always get it mixed up between what happend at the different blood sugar extrems

Diabetes has been around from the dawn of man, and surely was not identified/treated early in man's history. One person seeing blood in/around anothers mouth from severely bleeding gums surely could have made them think the person had been drinking blood.

The theory is what this thread is about: none of us can actually prove or disprove it - unless someone on here is a scientist specializing in both early human history and medicine.

She does make a very good point, but I disagree with the point, saying there's more of a religious and social background to the vampire's. Why were vampire's introduced in the first place? To keep little kids in doors, and out of harms way, you say there's a vampire out there, don't go out at night. Children become adults, they magnify they're belief until it reachs the point where, nobody can go out at night because there's a vampire.

Well , I am an EMT , an all the things youve said are signs of someone who's in a diabetic emergency , so your point is a very good one .

diabetes cannot be vampires plain & simple i mean just because they had symtoms doesn't mean they were though rite & i am sure that they did not come up with the name vampires through that motive unless you prresent proof

As I stated from the start, this is a theory I read in a book, I though it was interesting so put it up for discussion.

There are a lot of people saying symptoms are right and a lot saying they're wrong...tomorrow I'll look it up and post a link.

That is a very interesting theory. Back then they didn't know much about the medical conditions we can treat today so it is possible. There is also disease that some call "the vampire disease" called porphyeria that causes "vampire-like" symptoms in the sufferer.

Oops messed up the spelling Porphyria. You can look it up on wikipedie if you wish. It causes photosensitivity, necrosis of the skin and gums, and it effects the skin among other things. It also says on wikipedie that it may be the origin of vampire and werewolf stories. In certain circumstances it causes hair growth in areas like the forehead. I'll put a link in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porphyria

Haemophilia (from the greek to love blood)
is a disease that keeps ones blood from cloting there for the need a infution of blood cloting agent when the disease was first discoverd in 1000 by a Arab physician Abu al-Qasim al-Zahrawi (known as Albucasis in the West) the technolagy for the treatment was very rare so most often went untreated and many of these people would try other methades to help (i.e. drink blood) so they wou;ld contract other blood related diseases like Porphyria. and this is where "the legend of the vampire" started

let me coreact that they them selfs would not contract the some of the other disease there children would

anmia is one of two types of Haemophilia. type A which is more common. then type B which only afects males

yes it is a thorey i read this part but the theory is false...not true...not unless you are talking of porphyria then maybe it would become relevent in that motive

The theory is that diabetes may have led to the myths of supernatural/undead vampires not modern living vampires and it is very plausible. As for the vampire myth coming from Christianity, that is completely false since vampires are not mentioned at all in the bible. The vampire myths did not truly come about till the late 17th and early 18th centuries. There are some earlier "creatures" that in retrospect that have some vampiric traits but do not fit completely the vampire myth. The term vampire did not come into use until the 18th century (1700's). So many things in ancient history can be interpreted as this or that but unless someone invents a time machine it is likely we will never know for sure. Modern fiction has helped only to blur the lines even more of what was considered fact and what wasn't in those times. Just because there are myths of similar creatures 1000s of years earlier doesn't mean those didn't come from ignorance about diseases possibly including diabetes. The premise that all myths have a grain of truth is false. Myth: the world is flat if you travel to far enough you will fall off the edge. Where is the truth in that? Myth: The earth is the center of the universe and Apollo the sun god ride his chariot of fire across the sky everyday to light the earth. Where is the truth in that? Myths most of the time are used to explain what people don't understand at the time. That doesn't mean that any of it is true.

I have a solution, what we need here is to trakc down the first vampire and read his diary. Sorry just kidding, but keep in mind there is no truth no false tale, no one truly knows, thats why it is discussed, people like to express their thoughts and listen to others, so to actually correct another for something they say is somewhat rude, in my eyes all stories are correct, they began somewhere and they are all based on a beilefe someone sometime had, lets try to keep that in mind when we post and not go to hard on each other.

I think a lot of disorders, especially blood disorders, were simply labeled as the diseased being vampires or other unexplainable beaings. How many people were burned at the stake for being witches and how many of those had speech impediments, born malformed, etc. In ancient times, science and medical knowledgs did not know enough to be able to correctly diagnose many things we know common today. Diabetes very well may have been one of those disorders.

Wow, I never really thought to relate Diabetes to Vampirism. But I think it is very plausable that the myth and legends of Vampires could have come from this disease. Its strange how many of our folklores and myths come from medical illnesses.

This is a very interesting subject.

I think that while this is a fascinating subject it would be highly unlikely since diabetes is such a complex and yet common thing and not a single person I knows with it has once shown any vampiric tendencies.

Ok, that sounds really stupid. My mom was a diabetic and did not take any meds for it, so it was uncontrolled. She lived with it that way for years. She did not lose weight uncontrollably, nor did her teeth grow to fangs, and turn pale. She didn't turn into a monster.

Wtf?

Diabetes can happen to anyone. It is more prevelant among overweight people. But you can be young and seemingly healthy and get it. Kids get it. So no, it wasn't ignorant. I am not even sure what you are talking about.

My point was, that, people have diabetes and not look like freakish movie vamps...even when they are not medicated.

No doubt so .. I know many diabetics , and every symptom described here is true diabetic symptoms..
That is such a scary thought being back in the middle ages not knowing whats wrong or how to treat something of that nature ..

But one thought comes to mind when your a diabetic if your sugar is way up.. You thirsty , not a bit hungary ...

Glad to help out vampira. I was suprised to be the first to put Porphyria up there. I thought it was fairly well known that that was a disease that caused vampire-like symptoms. Maybe I just watch too much TLC lol.

Historians and scientist believe that most vampire legends came from stroires about cammibals or people infected with rabies.

Maybe, but historians and scientists aren't always correct. Scientists [alchemists are scientists] used to believe they could turn vairous metals into gold. Science changes. As for historians, their interpretations aren't necessarily correct, they're only probably correct.

Also, the discussion is great but I could personally do without the dripping sarcasm...try to keep it civil please.

Diabetes may more commonly start in overweight people but a lot of them once they get it lose a lot of weight and that can be for a couple reasons. One as a side effect of the disease and two as a result of the change in diet trying to control the disease. I have known people with diabetes some lost weight some didn't. Some people even untreated only have mild symptoms while others even with treatment have major symptoms. It affects different people differently. In ancient times though people didn't know how to help control it by diet nor did they have medicine to control it

Okay, so, we're getting a bit repetitive...if you're going to post please read the first and a few in-between posts. I realize this thread is a bit lengthy but...everyone saying how they know so-and-so who is diabetic and has such-and-such symptoms is getting monotonous.

My other half is hypoglycemic the flip side of being diabetic. She always feel best just after eating a meal with red meat.

This idea could of certainly added to mythos of vampires over time. As many have already stated things are changes and warped over time. What is known today is far greater than then.

Simple perspective - If you take a high school graduate and send him/her back into the middle ages with the knowledge they have. Two things could happen 1 - feared and destroyed i.e. knowledge of a witch 2 - they would be able to find an advisory placement to a royal or someone of the noble court.

So, within this perspective we carry the knowledge today in common that if was accessible seven to eight hundred years ago then a lot of stories and conjecture would never have been able to contribute to any ideas as above in the starting premise of this subject. Even today there are common things that are said and done because of the level of knowledge that was current during the time period when they started.

I have actually read this book very good book I must add... and I am not sure if this could really be a connection, but it is a good thought.

The theory that diabetics may have resembeled vampires is plausible and is good as any I have heard.
Diabetes is a complex disease and can have many symptoms, variable from person to person. Most of what was described in the original post are symptoms of ketoacidosis, which happens when the body starts using protiens for energy instead of glucose. However it does not last very long once it causes a person to go into a coma, and die within a few days.

Its possible but back then you could get real ill from just having the simple flu. But I dont see where they thought she was a vampire.

As has been stated the symptoms of diabetes were quite similar to supposed "vampiric" symptoms.

You have posted , what my mind agrees, could very well have been one of the major causes for the Vampire myth.Nice post.

Everything mentioned above may all be well and true HOWEVER there has NEVER been a documented case of someone killing and/or draining a victims blood from being a diabetic.

Thing is,back then,peeps did not understand like we do today.I have a feeling there are a number of things,diseases and otherwise,that lended their own contributions to the birth of Vampire lore.They could have witnessed several peeps who exibited a few symptoms,they cry vampire.

Its possible that it does. Although, it seems to be an odd thing, even in that over supernaturallity.

Being diabetic I can see how symptoms can be linked, being logical I often wonder how much of my vampirism is linked to my body’s fight for survival

Although I can see how the signs and symptoms of diabetes in untreated patients could lead people to believe that the condition could have been linked to vampires, I disagree with it being the influencing factor to Bram Stoker (and others) writing Dracula. Other references to vampires in literature and poetry were already out there before Dracula was written; to name a few:

Der Vampir by Heinrich August Ossenfelder

Wake Not The Dead by Johann Ludwig Tieck

A fragment of story by Lord Byron

The Vampyre by John Polidori

Varney the Vampyre by James Malcolm Rymer

Carmilla by J. Sheridan LeFanu

Although Vlad Tepes Dracula was the historical figure who inspired Bram Stoker for his novel, Stoker used "Carmilla" as one of his sources for his 1897 novel, Dracula, as well as superstitions he learned from Emily Gerard's book The Land Beyond the Forest, (which, of course, is a literal translation of the name 'Transylvania'.) It is also said that when Bram Stoker died, newspaper accounts of Mercy Brown's exhumation were found in his files.

References and further reading:

Vampires in Fiction

B. D. -- Before Dracula

Grave of Mercy L. Brown

not shewr what to say but i thing so of the miths are true to a serten extent becas diabetics run in both sids of my famly but i dont have it and as long as i keep my wight off i wont git it but i stll senstive to the sun burn esly and my eyes git darker and darker now ther gray

I was diagnosed as a pre type 1 4diabetic a year ago i had the thirst and was constantly drinking water.I was all ways hungry never getting full.I was told to loose weight I did and the sickness went away.How ever it was a miss diagnoses.
I was being poisiond by my gull bladder It was removed I had cancer and it all most exploded leaving toxins in my body causing diabetic like symptoms.I was not in fact fat but i was swollen because of the toxicity.I have lost over 200 pounds and it was all toxins I am no longer having the thirst nor the hunger.So perhaps toxins in the body as well could also contribute to the vampire legends.

Correction on:*I was diagnosed as a pre type 1 diabetic a year ago*

Congrats crimson on kicking ass and still here! =)

I have read this on here before. I don't really think I buy it.

My Mom was diabetic and didn't take meds to take care of it. She did not resemble a vampire, in appearance or in character.

I think it makes a valid starting point as to where the origin of the "mythic vampire" may have started. There are a few theories there that due to lack of scientific knowledge and superstion have contributed to it as well, like rabies ( fear of water vs vampires cant run across running water, aggressiveness etc) or sulfer ingestion...Sulfer when ingested in small doses can cause anemia, sensitivity to sunlight and moodiness.

What an incredibly fascinaing thread!

I, myself am psy/sang/tantric vampire (laugh all ya want, I often do) and a diabetic. I attribute my Adult onset Diabetes to the fact that I refused to feed (based on Wiccan principle of causing harm) and it ultimately shut my pancreas down.

Most of the symptoms listed are valid and confirmable medically. Not all diabetics will exhibit the extreme effects listed n te original post, but that does not make it false.

Thanks for this post, I agree that this is an entirely more plausible origin than a global Viral conspiracy or that we are the Sons of Caine (no offense to those that hold those beliefs... I just find them far-fetched).

My 2 cents

Lady Neferai

I agree I believe this could be one example but I believe there were other conditions as well that lead to the myth and the belief There probably was not just one cause throughout history

I agree with Kimberley, This is a very feasible origin, but some of the other things, as you mentioned Vlad the Impaler(not Vlad Dracula...the Name was Dracul, Vlad Dracul had a Son, who later became Vlad The Impaler, and and in the same Family, around the crusades and Vlad Dracul, or Vlad Dracula, the specific name escapes me on this point at the moment, but never the less, this one that existed during the crusades, was a crusader, who wrote 'romantic' letters to one woman in England, the graphic nature of the letters in his idea of the romance he was writing was seen as eccentric by many, the way he described things was almost grotesque, and some make the claim that this could be another Dracula, though the Name of Bram Stoker's Book, Dracula was a mixed generation of Vlad the Impaler. Things this man did, including stealing babies and young women to drink and bathe in their blood, to put their bodies on posts outside his castle, these are the ideas that sparked the nature of the tale woven by Stoker, But never Shall I claim these alone are how the legend of Vampires came to be, I realize word spreads but in his time the idea was spread farther than word of his deeds could have been, leaving to reason that other means, such as this were aid in creating one of the most popular race of people this world has ever known...race is used in the manner of dividing elves, dwarves and such from eachother

Iron Beast

It sounds like a good explanation, but diabetics are exactly that: diabetics. It resembles vampirism when it is in it's advanced stages, but it also resembles Porphyria, which is also thought of to be a vampiric disorder. Diabetes and Vampirism are not related except by chance that somewhere, someone who is a vampire is also a diabetic.

That is a Very Closed minded Opinion, Though you are entitled to your opinion, it is still a narrow minded train of thought, Goddess of the night.

During the time of the vampire hysteria in the 18th century, a very peculiar female character lived at the Krumlov castle, named Eleonore von Schwarzenberg. The castle’s archives show a vivid picture of her personality. Following her husband’s death in a hunting accident, Eleonore lived a secluded life at the castle. She raised wolves and was obsessed with magic potions and occult rites. When she died in 1741 from a mysterious disease, authorities commanded a post-mortem, a unique procedure for a person of high aristocratic status. She was regarded as a victim of ‘vampire sickness’, as conditions of unexplainable physical decay were referred to at the time. Eleonore’s fate left a mark.

The very first piece of literature dealing with vampire myths was a sonnet, also cited by Bram Stoker. Its author, Gottfried August Buerger, was a frequent guest at Krumlov castle and an acquaintance of Eleonore’s son. The sonnet was aptly entitled ‘Eleonore’.

hmm I put a link in there and it has not carrid through

http://www.thehistorychannel.co.uk/site/tv_guide/full_details/World_history/programme_429.php