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thats a good idea... i plan on becoming a PM soon

Idealistically it's a good concept Billy really, but in reality how could such code of ethic be designed & maintained? What would bind any PM to adhere with these ethics & most improtantly who says that such an initiative wouldn't in fact end up dividing members more? (Am I right to call this a thought experiment?)

I suppose it will end up as something verbal.
Maybe a group will do one thing and another group decide on something else. We'll see what ideas come up.
But lets see if we can stop the bickering.

There's always room for a trial my friend. After all its nice having the faculty to push good initatives. :)

I disagree with the stamps, but yeah, they're here to stay.
I think something as simple as if you don't want to be stamped, state it on your profile. If you stamp someone who says that they don't want to be stamped, then you should get rated low by the person. It's as simple as that.

I believe it's better each to their own but an original message is always preferred:)

I'm not sure if thats a good idea. I think even if pm's have more options, we are still all the same and here for the same reasons. It might start to look as if the pm's are like an elite club and i wouldnt like that at all. I stamp if there is nothing to make a comment about on a profile, with the option that they can msg me if they did an update so i can re-rate and make an individual comment.
constantly writing 'nice profile or 'Welcome to the rave isnt that individual either even if its written every time.

You're right Kat, thats where my concern in my first post here laid in fact.

Here is how I see the issue. This is not a democracy. This site is ruled by a Prince. He makes the law; the end. If he has ruled that stamps, for example, are allowed...then they are. If there has been no ruling that you cannot bitch at people who use the stamp privilege even when you dont like it...then by all means, do so; but frankly do it in private. As Memnoch stated earlier, express it as a personal preference in a profile...because frankly...it IS the law because the Prince has declared it so. Complaining about privliges and features allowed is almost like complaing that the govt. of the US gives you "too much" free speech...regulate yourselves and quit being babies. It's like the US Supreme Court rulings on obscenity, which in (brief...very brief) sum say...if you don't like it, don't look at it. To complain about the liberty (let's say...of stamping) can only mean a tighter control leading to a more despotic regime. I thank and appreciate the patience of the Prince that he has not struck down all the liberties he has granted that I see so many people constantly bitching about. Give it a rest already people.

Yendor is quite correct... it would be a very hard thing to police, even if it was close to a eunanemous verdict.

I never use stamps personally, and if you where to try and make a form of group movement, that would be supported by me.

I feel that some priviledges result in a form of disrespect to non PM's, and that is what I would like to see stopping.

I don't really mind the stamps. Though it would seem to me that the people who place the ones we're more used to seeing sometimes don't read the profile at all. I can't tell you how many times a PM has asked me a question after rating and stamping that is answered very clearly at the beginning of the profile.

I'm used to that by now though, and it's a small price to pay for use of the site..since I currently pay nothing. One thing I would like to see is the ability to administrate your own comments though. Do PM's have this option? I'm seeing more people putting music of some kind to their stamps...that music isn't always good. I would hope asking that person to remove the music would be enough..but it would be nice to be able to do it myself too.

- D

I don't know what you mean by ethics for it, but i find the stamp help me from thinking of a new message for the over 9000 things i have to rate.

People seem to have this misconception that they *have* to comment on every single profile they rate.
You don't have to comment.
Comments are OPTIONAL.
If you can't think of a comment, its just as easy to leave no comment.

a solution to the problem may be that if a stamp is used then there is no room for a comment as well.

by this i meen if i stamp you a mark like a sygnature that i have been here then i have to click rate and the page refreshes.

maybe if there was a way so i could leave my mark on your site and also a comment then every one could be close to reaching satisfaction.

those who like to read a comment could be acommodated alone with those that see a stamp as there mark.

well balls in everyones court now ive said my piece.

i believe in compremises not dictatorship.
other that orders obaide in respect of the princes wishes.

I Love Being A PM They Are So Much More Shit You Can Do With A PM Then You Can Do With A Free One.

memnochthedevil, of course its just an option, but how would a free member know you where there and rated if you dont stamp or comment? How would they be able to return the favor and go and read your profile? Isnt that all about it? that you go to the profiles of the people who rated and commented you? To get to know each other or the person who showed interest?

Well, I try not to draw attention to myself via that way. If someone wants to rate my profile, they can find it themselves, thats how I've had to find their profile.
If someone is worthy of a comment, I will comment, but its not often I actually comment on a profile. They're the only people I want to view my profile, actually.

The only time i use my Stampso to speak is when i rate new members! Just to welcome them!

Being a premium member myself I did not create a stamp as I feel that it is too impersonal. I like to make a comment directly to the person to let them feel that it has come directly from me and not as a pre-written script made for everyone. Stamps are boring. Sorry

I created a stamp, but I only use it on people who didn't read my profile...

theancient, and so are profiles where you just read a 'bla' lol so excuse if i just stamp it or should I say 'wow cool bla' lol now that would be really stupid lol

I won my PM in a contest, and I've only had it for a few days, but I love it! I'll admit, I used to hate stamps, the often debated end of Premium accounts; who wants a big tigger picture on the bottom of their hard-made profile? And getting a stamp welcoming you to the Rave is a little silly when you've been here for a few months. But stamps, when used correctly and with restraint, are a good idea. Who hasn't seen a whelp with a profile so barren that there's nothing to respond to? And the rest of the PM privilages . . . wow. It's like belonging to a whole new site. I think that once my month of membership expires, I'll be buying a new one.

I don't mind the pm's stamps...some are interesting...they may do as they please...I quite agree with Sevenn.

Acquiring Premium Membership is a good experience. I must admit it is pretty awesome compared to regular membership..due to the fact that it does have extra features and allows you more flexibility to work on things in your profile and so on.

I think every member should try it, at least for a month..a year....a lifetime ;)

Its seriously not that expensive if you think about it...compared to most sites out there, VR is very inexpensive and much more enjoyable than any other ;)

Its the most enjoyable site i have ever been on! I Must confess that as my timeis usually limited on here i have to use my stamp to speed things up!

Even if we could organize something to keep everyone happy, there would be disagreements, dividing amongst the members. Quite a few people have problems with others using the stamp, premium or not. It's like the "welcomes" to the older members, we've been here longer but we still get welcomed. You can't control the minds of others.

To tell everyone the honest truth, I think everyone should be equal here....I dont like having to pay for a premium membership so that my page can have all of the extra crap on it (music, backround, etc.) so when mine expires in a few days then I wont renew it...I got rated the same when I didnt have all of that stuff on there, and besides, I see people rating you on how friendly you are to them anyways and they dont even read the page...

I know people say that to have the extra stuff then we have to pay for it but myspace is free and so are a lot of other sites that you can put all that extra stuff on...just my opinion but the PM causes more problems then good...someone will always say they feel inferior for not having one so I think we should all be equal...simple as that...

Well I prefer not to use a stamp, leaving an actual comment gets you more involved.

Just a thought, treat others as you wish to be treated.

Simple enough it seems, yet manners rarely are simple.

Perhaps there should be a Vampire Manners monthly article that way we could get some constructive bitching in.

You know, reading Cancers post is almost heart breaking. He puts so much effort into giving us internet geeks something to do, a place for discussions and education. And we sit here bitching about how someone said "welcome" or stamped our profiles.

*bows to the Prince's cutting words*

ouch! cancer is right
we dont realise just how much work he has done and how much poop he has had to undergo with the site
we sit here and whine and complain about the things we dont like when we shoud praise what he have been given,
like the option of a PM...
dont complain about a stamp, or the like..if you want a good comment then make your profile into one that would have a comment for it..
and if you didnt get a comment you felt you deserved..then who cares...
we need to just relish that we have a place to come to that we can interact freely with and have the option to get added features

If I can be so bold, and whilst not complaining about anything here, who cares if a stamp may be a little impersonal...

nobody has yet spared a thought for he people that "CANT" become premium members...some people are not not able to pay, dont have the means, too young, etc....i can see a few people not wanting to ask mom and dad to get them a membership on here....after all a lot of the time parents dont approve of this sort of thing....

Aside from that and having a general idea of how much work goes into an undertaking like this site one can only say kudus to Cancer for keeping it up......

Ethics, I agree with the do unto others as you would have unto yourself.
If the pms didnt have special privileges you would find that not many would actually pay for the site and eventually end result would be no site it does take money to have this here.
I think its really sad that as what is to be considerd a group of people who are mature enough to be here can do nothing but complain it seems really juvenile to me.Cancer works hard to provide all of us with the service he does and I belive he deserves more that people complaining about it.
As for the stamps like mem said put on your profile that you dont wish to have stamps used and if someone has actually taken the time to read they wont!

I find a great many things to comment on in this particular thread. As far as the idea of encouraging ethics into the site, I really believe (or at least I truely hope) that the majority of people have the ethics that will allow them to co-exist in any community, including this one. There are those who are immature and find it funny to do things that they know are wrong. Exploiting loopholes in the programming that is malicious in nature is (in my humble opinion) not only an attack on the person's profile, but also a direct attack against the Prince/VampireRave and should be treated as such.
As far as the stamping goes, I use my stamp. I intend to continue using it as I see fit. (Mine is my house crest and a simple note that I had visited) However, I also do my best to respect the wishes of those who do list on their profiles that they dislike stamps. I would much rather leave a comment, however, I find a startling lack of originality and those get the stamp. Improper use of a stamp (welcoming someone who is above level 5) doesn't hurt anyone. It simply makes the stamper look foolish.
As far as rating someone's profile low because they didn't follow your instructions is a bit (quite a lot, actually) childish in my opinion, but it is your right.
As Cancer stated,"It's funny how often the golden rule applies."

I cant see why there needs to be anymore debate
Cancers plainly said that stamps are staying so get over it already.
Billy i think the only way a set way of rating could be intorduced if it was percentaged like other things. You get a certain percentage for photos etc background, music,
I think those who are here to learn will learn, those who are here to try and teach will try and teach, those who are here for fun will have their fun...
Be happy with what you are here for and stop worrying over silly things like wether a stamp is a big thing or not... In the great scheme of things does it relate to what VR is about?

wow this has all been covered before , so I will just say I agree with sevenn, Stamps are here to stay, complaining is futile. Rejoicing just feels better. Or does it,... :P

The stamping of profiles is all to tempting and is a little impersonal as it seems to indicate that the profile has not been read even when that is not the case.

One of the reasons because I bought a premium membership was because of the possibility to STAMP!...

I don't usually rate anybody but it pissed me off having to think something "different" (like a period or a coma) everytime I have to rate FOR THE SAME KIND OF PROFILE!!!!.

I mean, I'M SICK OF QUIZZES!!!!. Most of the people here don't have any authenticity in their profiles. It's just not appealing to me! . so I prefer not to rate but when I do, I love to be able to STAMP!

At the end of the day this is only a website and we all have our own lives. Why sit worrying about a God damn stamp.
The world is not going to end because you stamped someone.
And if they don't like it, tough!

Go PM but i will not become a PM person

We got that stamps are here to say. Discussion of a way to unite the PMs is the topic of conversation. I myself have no ideas as we're all so very different.

Someone stamping a profile is by no means grounds for their profile to be rated low. That is, in my opinion bombing. I do however agree that if someone asks in their profile not to be stamped, then it is easy enough not to stamp that profile. If we are given the means to use a stamp, most of us are going to use it. No matter what ideas come about, there will always be a minority who does not conform to the flow. Therefor, I give kudos to the ideas expressed in this thread but doubt anything will ever be resolved.

As someone who stamps Billy, im quite willing to discuss guidelines, i have my own already. I try not to stamp articles as i feel rude. I try not to stamp realy well done profiles. But then a really well made one does inspire some thoughts to put down anyway.
I have stamped in the data base but i have also left comment. I stamped where i felt what i had to say was not condusive to community harmony lol. I work off the premise if i havent something nice to say dont say it on teh database side of rating.
Portfolios i try and leave a personal comment as most portfolios are quite personal things.

thats a great idea but for someone like me who the vr payment site wont let make a payment it sucks but hey i back it up

Ok I am not a PM yet but I intend to be, so I dont know what comes with the package.

However is it not true that PM's can block stuff that they dont want.

Why is there a big fuss about stamps anyway...If the are custom then the person who uses it has put time and effort in creating this to use...Personaly i think they are great and I dont see the problem with them.

Come on this is a community and sometimes things happen that we dont agree with, but why bitch about it get on with it and enjoy your experience here.

If you dont like stamps state it on your profile and hopefully people will respect you and not use their stamp on you...

I am a PM and you know what? one person got very upset at me because I stamped them and I had to stop for a sec and think about if I was pissed off or not...I wasn't ...ever since then I comment honestly and sometimes alot on the profiles...letting the person know I did read what they spent a long time putting together. The ones that I will stamp are those who have one quote and nothing else on or nothing period. and I will stamp the clothing articles sometimes etc.
so
I don't follow a code and I personally don't mind the stamps...but I don't stamp as much especially not the profiles since I sat back and thought about it.
however I love that we have premium memberships and like that it gives extras like the stamp and skins /colors etc.

not being funny I wondered what that was (the stamp) and personally I don't see the point of it.. I like to sit and read what is on a profile and then rate according to what I have read and enjoyed... Not some generated stamp

I agree, cause if we spend just as much time and effort and rating hours upon hours we all deserve the same basic rights...obviously u should get a little something extra for ur money but I think better thought needs to go into what those priviledges are...

Why.....Do you expect to get the same taste from a £5 bottle of wine that you do from a £75 bottle of Champagne.

It takes you the same effort to get to the bottom of the bottle....

The reason Premium members get so many privilages more than us free members is because they have paid for it in the first place.

If you want the same privilage then getout your wallet or purse and pay for the privilage like they have...

I know I will be one day and then I will have the same privilages as them...I am not going to sit here and cry that its not fair..Of course its fair thay have coughed up their hard earned cash.

I was a PM..(until it ran out..but I am going to get it again..soon)

The stamps are a good tool, but, only if you read the profile...but the arguement revolves again about ratings and profiles...you can stamp but rate it low based on effort..on some non PM members give 10's out and say "here is a 10 to start you out"

is it not all the same?

piercedmissy, the stamps are not generated. the pm's create them themselfs.

I plan on becoming a PM and I do not agree that the stamp seems too impersonal. I mean hell it's hard coming up with original comments for each profile you view.

i use to be a pm and i loved it.. i could do so much.. i used stamping for the "newbs to the site"(the welps), but any one higher got normal comments.. i love the stamping feat if you will but i wont stamp if i dont want to or i dont like the profile..

im lost

I have actually spent about 20 minutes trying to read all ofthis it took a little longerand it is [pretty much a debate it seems. Am I right here?

my thank

*scratches head* To be rated, or not to be.. that is the question? Or is it?
I dunno.. personally.. you can look at this from many different angels.
I think if you want to be rated (because that is, mostly what this all boils down to.. ratings = advancement), you'll accept it in any form it comes in.. with a stamp, with a comment, or no comment at all.. even if it's a 10 or a 1.. it's still a rate. Or would you prefer they bypass your entire pro and go onto someone elses without rating it at all? Sure, I know most of you have spent hours upon hours making your profile as perfect as it can be..but not everyone is going to either a) like it b) want to rate it a 10 because they feel it's not c) comment.. but you'll find (as i have discovered) a vast majority will rate you, stamp you or leave a comment.
To me, it dosen't matter.. you either look at my profile and leave a stamp or a comment.. and know you've at least been there.. or you rate it, without anything at all. Definately better then it being looked over with no rate! ;) But still, wouldn't bother me. And a lil off subject..but probably a concern for some..please..if you don't like the rate someones given you.. don't whine! Even if its a rate without a comment to say what they did/didn't like about your profile. It's a rate nonetheless and still adds onto your score!

Blabla I became a pm a few days ago.. love the extra options.. honestly.. haven't had much time to use them lol. I've fiddled with the stamp, but have used it maybe twice.

Cancers done a great job on this site.. one of the most well advanced sites I've seen out there that has peeked my interest more then a few hours.. (in fact, 49.96 hours total, and counting)
We're all striving for the same thing..how we get there is all up to us. Enjoy it while you can.. ignore what you don't like and move on. ;)

Don't get my wrong, I like being rated. But I like to know what people think about my profile, and not to get an impersonal stamp.
And I'd rather get no comment than a stamp. I generally go visit those who rate me. Hell, I visit people who goto my profile and *dont* rate. I just don't like being stamped is all.

Still an infant on this site and learning more about it each day. I became a PM after being on here a few days in order to support this great site and all the hard work that goes into keeping it this way. The price is incredibly low and just wanted to give something back for what is being given to me.

I find some stamps creative and interesting and others a bit silly; however, stamps are there at the bottom of the profile/portfolio and who the hell cares, I'm just glad someone took the time to come by, check me out and trying to take what is said as creative criticism - I will continue to add and grow in both profile and portfolio and hope there is something there of interest.

I guess if you took a step back and decided those that stamp is impersonal.. then perhaps you needn't worry about viewing their profile..or stamp theirs too. I know life isn't about tit for tat but if it bothers people so much why put more effort into something that you didn't get in the first place? I don't know.. but really, just because someone stamps dosen't mean they didn't look at your profile and enjoy it. Some people lack the creative juicies. I definately put more effort into a thread, then I do a comment..I enjoy a lot of profiles.. but sometimes I can't relate. Just reading their profiles alone dosen't mean I know them well enough to comment on certain things. I know about a lot of things that I know.. but on this site there's a wide array of ppl that know a lot about stuff that I have absolutely no idea on :) I find saying 'cool pics and cool profile, excellant job' is becoming repeative for me but I personally don't have much else to work on.
When I first joined here I was surprised with the amount of welcomes I had gotten.. whether personal, or impersonal. I thought it was great, and I still do.. because that means someone IS looking at my profile.

But if they've read my profile, then they know not to stamp me. It states that quite clearly on my profile. If I get stamped, it means that they *haven't* read my profile, which annoys me. So I stamp them back, with my own specially created stamp for people who don't read my profile.
And yes, I do rate them fairly as well. I do read their profile.

Perhaps that part of the ethics that i am talking about? Maybe they did read the profile that says please don'y stamp, but stamped anyway! Just because they can or they wanted to. After all, if they are PM's they do have that right, even if their profiles so no - they say yes.

One of the main reasons for this thread was so some people understand the different views of where some others or coming from. There is no way, as I have stated before, that we will all agree. It aren't going to happen! But it may help to keep the peace in the long run.

I will be closing this thread on Friday before my trip. I think one week of this is more than enough.

I agree that we all won't agree.. It's just easier not to worry about the small stuff.

stamps r kool i wish i had a stamp

Thats part of the ethics of it all though, isnt it? That they read my profile, saw that I said don't stamp me, and yet they still stamped me. Its a simple courtesy thing.
If they wish to stamp me against my wishes, then why shouldn't I stamp them with my horrid stamp?
I've had one person try to abuse me because of it, yet they didn't even have the courtesy of either reading my profile, or not stamp me.

I think stamps are less of an issue then the ethics are. The problem then with ethics is it's all subjective. Those that make use of good ethics don't even need the code of conduct as it were, and those that do well....do. That's all well and good if you can draw a distinct line, but this is stamps being discussed, creating a grey area, and a largely subjective approach to things. People are people, and that will be from stamps to posts, and a conduct measure of any form will only serve to create a point of contention instead of a better site.

myself I am not currently a PM I plan to get one .. tis a real shame that 150$ is outta my free cash range so it may one day lapse one me *shrugs* now as far as stamps go ... I really don't care one way or the other the only PM feature I do not like is the one that takes away the animotiy of the rating system I do not like to randomly toss out 10s a nine sure but 10 should be something special but if you rate a PM say a 7 and they see this as low they can turn around and give you a 1 for no other reason then being petty or if I feel something in a profile warrents a low rate like a 3 or lower and it is a PM I am rating I know that my own rank will so drop drasticly ... does this make me change my rating ... no but it is the price you pay I guess .. if they ever fixed the problem and got back to you and you intern rerated them would they do the same and retract there low rank ... if your not a PM you'll never know..... umm that's all I guess so maybe this will get off the whole stamp issue maybe not

DarksBlade, just remember, they cant go any lower then a 1 ;)

And from what I understood, it also depends on the level the person has, how much affect their rating has on ur profile. like when a whelp gives you a 1 it has less affect then when a sire does. I wouldnt worry too much about it :) In the end its how much you like your profile :)

I am not waiting 'til Friday.
This post is now closed.
Thanks to all.

What needed to be said at the time was.
Lets just do our best.