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Piece that I thought would interest people here... At least the Nevada officials are fighting for the soldier and his family...

Wiccan Soldier

By SCOTT SONNER, Associated Press Writer Thu May 25, 7:14 PM ET

RENO, Nev. - Nevada officials are pressing the Department of Veteran Affairs to allow the family of a soldier killed in
Afghanistan to place a Wiccan symbol on his headstone.

Federal officials so far have refused to grant the requests of the family of Sgt. Patrick Stewart, 34, who was killed in Afghanistan last September when the Nevada Army National Guard helicopter he was in was shot down.

Why they wouldn't allow that is beyond me. If he was Wiccan and that was his belief, let it be. Jews are allowed to have the star of david if they choose, Christians and catholics are allowed their crucifixes, so why not a Wiccan symbol. Are they that ignorant to any other belief, or is this just another attempt to force religion through the governments iron fist. I say let them lay to rest their own in their own fashion.

I agree with Remeberwhen. If Wicca was his religion, then why can his family not place a Wiccan symbol on his headstone? Why is that any different than any other symbol? I've seen headstones with other religious symbols on them. Are officials threatened somehow? Come on!

I also agree,but what we have to remember is that even in these times people are afraid..they think of wicca and think of what the christians called witchcraft........He might of just been a pagen...I find christians blind to anything other than here own faith....anything different is witchcraft..

3 words for their ognorance...FREEDOM OF RELIGION. They don't have to remember ANYTHING. That is THEIR fallen member, their FAMILY. Screw their "fear" and screw how "delicate" the times are. FREEDOM OF RELIGION. nuff said.

Ignorance*

I figured it was only a matter of time before this issue came up. I'm a Christian myself, but I have a LOT of dear friends who are Pagan, Jewish, Hindu, Budhist, even Siehk... time for the US to remember that the 1st amendment applies to everyone....

Dont get me wrong my friend i agree with you 100%...it can be hard to forgive peoples blindness..this has made me sad!

Thank you, I'm not attacking the christian faith, but to hear that I must or anyone for that fact must watch their step around people because they don't know or understand a certain religion is ludicrous. We aren't in the middle ages anymore, if someone refuses to educate themselves by learning acceptance, then they need to dig a grave with the bridge of their nose while my &%^$ is rammed in their a$$.
Not saying anyone who posted here . Just saying in general. religious ignorance should be kept indoors. And NO-ONE should have to walk on egg shells cause someone might think "oh no, you're a witch"

I understand what you mean theban but I feel disgusted with people that DO think stupid shit like "You jmust be a witch and in league with Satan" They need to stop breeding.

The worst part about this particular subject is that Wicca IS a religion that is recognized by the military as a valid religion which would make you think that it wouldn't be a problem to have a pentacle on a soldiers tombstone. Even though it is recognized, soldiers are still singled out if they profess to being Pagan and still have to fight for their rights. Its the governments way of keeping people quiet while doing very little to show their acceptance. Another example of practice what you preach.

I really do hope that this family wins their plight and I commend them for taking up the fight. I hope that if they do win that it help move religious acceptance past the 17th century.

FREEDOM OF RELIGION MEANS ALL RELIGIONS!

A foolish restriction crying back to the Puritan beliefs that this country was founded on.

i also agree with all of you , if i died i would want to go out the same way i live i if i lived that kind of life thats how i want peaple to remember me

Shakes head sadly . . . more than a pity for freedom of religion means all religions!! People are so ignorant and immediately think inside a very small box and are not open to knowledge and learning that perhaps they are wrong... I feel for this poor soldier's family.

Do not feel sad for the soldiers family, feel sad for our government who refuses to let freedom of religion exist in all facets of belief. That is where the TRUE pity and sadness lies.

That is complete BS Freedom of Religion is a rigth and no matter what is it should be recognized by everyone. Some people are just too close minded to see the truth. And the truth is that there one religion may not be right they might all be right so there is no right on someone doing this to Wiccans.

And yet people scoff at me when I say the tides ARE starting to turn when it comes to religious freedoms and the so called 'infallable" power of the Christian religion. The new Gospel of Judas which has now resurfaced is a new testament to the beliefs that most have suspected but never actual spoke aloud. That the Vatican and the religious "facts" are not "infallable" and are indeed flawed, as is man. They will get their Pentacle and this is just the beginning as far as I am concerned. Freedom is but a state of mind. So called separation of church and state has always been one of the biggest oxymorons and flat out hypocrysies of all time. It always has been and always will be.

This is in the Stars and Stripes (military)newspaper here almost every day. I think the problem is that, while the religion is recognized, the symbol itself is not. So they have to go through a whole process that should have been done (and probably was started but later forgotten) long ago. It'll come around sooner or later. Hopefully sooner.

Well then isn't that considered biased and racist? Wouldn't you agree. if every other symbol is "regognized", Why isn'e the pentacle? why is there a double standard? it is the same as the crucifix and Star of David. And according to the bible, aren't we NOT supposed to worship symbolism?

It was never made an issue that it be recognized as a symbol. You cannot fault someone for not recognizing something they don't know about. After all, I imagine if you were told to draw every countries flag, there would be a few you couldn't. Not your fault, you just aren't familiar with them. It's along the same lines with this issue. You have to bring things to the front in order to get them realized, is all.

True, but although I could not draw them, I did, and do not feel that they are not worth recognozing. Just because I camn't draw beijings flag does not in any way make them unacceptable. Is it different with religious icons?

Absolutly. However, in this day and age, it takes six copies of paperwork in order to do anything. We recognize it, but the officials don't until the paperwork goes in. Sort of the other edge to the seperation of church and state sword.

Do we need paperwork to put a crucifix on a headstone? Why for any other religion?

What a stupid and narrow minded world we live in,Wicca is a religion like any other!!!

This somehoow doesn't surprise me at all the government has been on a steady diet of denying people there Civil rights as well as liberties..They do this based on its not what they agree with Bush and his policies...The sad thing is most people say how sad and don't realize that they can do something about it..They think oh well somebody else has tried or will try and they don't do what they feel is right..Write to your congressman and state Senitor give them hell and they do nothing then fire them buy getting out and voting the next election against them..Most seem not to get it they are the ones the government works for not the other way around

this issue really made me sad... i live in a country where freedom of religion does not exist... not because it is catholic.. but because the goverement even in its consitiution imposed catholisim.... thus as said i have nothing against catholisim and never will... but makes me sad these restraints on us, whom decide thier path beyond the forced religion.. its is stupid and closed minded indeed...

i really hope that this solider's family will be able to place the wiccan symbol on the tombstone of their loved one... for it was surely what their departed one wished...

To me it is simple. He gave up his life for our country. Give him what he would want! It angers me. You are good enough to die for us, just make sure you hide whom you really are. Because, what, only certain ppl. are good enough to die for us?

I would love to see the family have a custom headstone made. Yes, it would be expensive, but they would get their point across. You'd think that the government, who will give a murderer anything they want for their last dinner, would give a hero his dying wish. Makes you wonder who the government reveres more, doesn't it?

Another foolish mistake on the governments part for refusing to acknowledge the Wiccan ways like the rest of the others.

things like this make me wont to go the way of the viking (drift of in a burning raft)

no wait thats illegel as well,

guess some are just ment to be immortal till they find a true resting ground.

cheers

This young man died in service of his country and his country should return the favor by honoring his family's request. I find this to be a slap in the face to the family who lost a loved one. I spent two years in the navy and am angry this is happening.

Wow Lolitamarie passionate aren't we..what I said here before still stands you want this to change you must make it change..I'm not talking here about revolution..I talking about telling Washington this has to stop if they wont then VOTE get them out of office..The reason idiots run for office is because of apathy of the general populace you demand better and show it with the vote better people will run for office

I know the US navy does recognize Wiccans, I have a good friend who is the advocate for the wiccan population on his ship. I hope this family fights this to the end and honors this fallen soldier his right to show his religion.

so much for the freedom of religion . . . . .as long as it conforms to the accepted view of everyone else . . .

typical . . . . .aarrrrrrrrrrrrrghhhhhhhhh

ok now that pisses me off alot i was in the military and when i was in they didnt care what religion you were and now its a issue .. fuck them and there hypocritical asses ... i think they should respect this man enough to do this if anything hell he died for this country so why not give him his last request....damn big brother...

I think the problem is that many don't see Wicca as a 'real' religion. I cannot remember which political figure said it, but it was recently....something about embracing freedom of religion, 'as long as it's not like, witchcraft or something'.

I'm moving to Canada.

I saw alot of people talk about the military thats barring the symbol from being put up. It's the VA. The military still doesnt care what your religion is as long as you're fighting for them. Hell, I've worked with people that actively practiced voodoo, wiccans, catholics, baptists, jews, you name it. It's the VA's office that never took the time to recognize wicca as a religion.

When I was in the Army they asked me my religion (to put it on my dogtags as was the custom back then...and may still be custom). I told them... "Swedenborgian". I spelled it out for them on the form. They put "Protestant." I gave it back to them and refused my dogtags. They got all besides themselves and barked a bunch of bullshit like they tend to do. I stood my ground with them and they finally gave in. (Swedenborgian religion is considered a cult by mainstream Christianity....those of them that have even heard of it.)

Kalenia said that freedom of religion is a right. One that this soldier gave his life for. It saddens me that the department of veterans affairs won't recognize this individuals religious icon on his burial ground and headstone. How is it considered hallowed ground? Hell, I would figure the VA would be at the forefront of making the changes. Since it is run by veterans or atleast those that are supposed to know and support veterans they should make those changes.

Let the man have what he wants, no deserves, on his final resting place.

it was bush.. said he was going to try to set wicca as an occult instead of a recognized religion.. thats at least what I heard.

you know why they wont let them. cause the christian coalition would have a fit.

their the ones the republicans count on to put them into office.

Freedom of Religion only exists if you are of the same persuasion as those in power. They are ignorant fools.

Voodoo, I've read about this and heard about it on public radio...I agree that this case is probably easily chalked up to beaurocracy but given it's publicity, it's strange that it isn't being taken care of faster. I would pose the arguement that while their are those in the government, military, and VA that don't care about this symbol, there have always been hard core evangelists in those bodies that would like to see this not go through.

Remember that when GWB was asked specifically about Wicca in the military years ago, his response was:

"I do not think witchcraft is a religion, and I do not think it is in any way appropriate for the U.S. military to promote it."

I am just curious as to what symbol exactly it is.. saying "the wicca symbol" is like saying "the letter of the alphabet" there are quite a few. At the same time, one needs to take into consideration, is it a public cemetary/private cemetary/church cemetary? That would have a great impact on the allowances given. I know that when a friend of mine was buried, they were not allowed to put his favorite decorations on the headstone, because it was a church cemetary and the symbols were not christan.

Linnatha - it's a pentacle that they want to use on the grave marker.

Then we go to the second part of my post, what manner of cemetary is it?

Im sure the military is paying for the burrial if he was a soldier and killed in battle. The military would rather not pay for such a thing im sure I would petition the cemetary where he is burried to put the symbol on the gravestone once the burial is completed and have the family pay for the symbol to be placed on the gravestone afterwords where there is room on the stone.

Just re-read the article, and I do believe a big deal is being made about a very minor thing. It says , in an interview with one of the Veterns assocation people, that they will put one up there for him, it will just take time, as the Veterns people do not reckonize it yet. However, and moreso, it is not his headstone, but a memorial plaque. I think (and yes, I expect lots of inflammatory remarks for this) that his wife is just looking to make a big fuss, as she could easily add a pentacle to her husbands headstone, but that is not good enough, she wants it on the memorial plaque as well. That is making a fuss over a very small issue. more power to her, but boy will her face be red once they finally make it a reckonized religion on their list (which will make it number 31 on their list)

Linnatha - agreed that this is probably more than just a case of prejudice and that it will be taken care of...though it's been months and you'd think they'd want to solve the bad press on this...

I'd still like to point out that there are plenty of higher ups in both the military, the VA and the government who have a deeply religious bent against pagan religions. The Air Force has been under fire repeatedly for prosylitizing and evangelizing within the service and as I mentioned before, when asked about it, our president still considered Wicca witchcraft (and not a real religion).

wow

that is really sad that they would even think of denying him part of his religion

Until Wicca is recognized by the government as a valid religion, there will be the segregation and prejudice and refusal of acknowledgement

The odd thing is, Native American soldiers have never been denied their beliefs. I'm not sure if it was actually "allowed" or just overlooked, but I'm sure some of them wore medicine bags, and even feathers, while serving. I can look into it, but I'm fairly positive there is an actual administration for Native Vets.

Yes this i feel is an outrage a man fights and dies for this shit country I live in (Which "supports" freedom of religion)
And they cant put a pent on his tombstone what the hell is wrong with these people. Im shure the dont say no to a crispy who wants a cross on his. the sad thing is they allow just about everything else . well thats all i have to say

to them the people who die are all the same so they should not be allowed distinction beyond their death

I agree. The government does not recognize Wicca as a religion. However, this country was founded on freedom of religion. Wicca was not considered a religion back then either. There is a lot more tolerance for Wiccans now than there was then. I haven't heard of anyone burning any witches in the recent times, but that doesn't mean it is well accepted. People fear what they do not understand. I would be very interested to know how this comes out.

I am a Christian, but I was raised to not judge others on anything other than themselves. I put no labels on people until I get to know them.

My family came over on the Mayflower for religious freedom and I believe in that equality for all. The only time I do not - is when children are forced to believe what their parents tell them - I feel religion should be taught in schools - ALL religion s people can make informed decisions when they are older.

The family should be allowed to put whatever they want to on the marker. We have the freedom and it should not be limited to certain religions.

I think the military is just afraid of losing supporters when people see that one was wiccan, which is total BS. It should be up to the family to decide if they honor their loved ones wish, not the government.

I am outraged at this whole thing. The man died trying to pertect Americas freedom but to deny his family there wish is wrong it just is I wanna curse and scream in this messege but I won't

I hope the family gets there wish

Blessed Be all

that is SO terrible. The dead deserve to have their final rights respected and carried out. I"ll have to show that article to my friends...

While I agree the solidiers faith should be recgonized by the VA on his burial. The problem seems to be the usual wait forever for the government to do it's job. I have to think part of it is the almighty dollar, right now they only have to have the two main ones (cross/star) the more they have to have access to will cost them more in both design/development costs and supply/stocking them. Let's remember the cost of the war is okay only for the bombs and weapons. The care and pay for the soldiers both alive and dead is being shortchanged by our government. While I agree the religious stranglehold we are under right now does not want to recgonized any other faith, I still think it's their pocketbook they're protecting more.

I have to wonder if the family has offered to pay for it or have it privately funded would they allow it then.

It's just another way of people not honoring our troop's or their family's wishes, as simple as the request may be.

ok...so first the country is sending our ppl over there and its not our war, and then when they die our country isnt letting us place what we want upon their headstone?
that isnt right, actualy, that is upsettign!

ok i think that is some fucked up shit... i mean i had a brother who was killed in iraq, and our requests were never meet either.... exuces me for saying so but fuck bush..

I have more info on this subject if anyone wants it. Including a website to join the fight.

In Our Beloved Darkness
Blessed Be

James A. McMorrigan

This thread has lost the focus...first the facts is the Veterans Administration, NOT Bush, or the military, or any other government organization that has not thus far allowed the symbol. Secondly, the rights have not been denied permanently, the VA just has not approved the addition of the symbol as it has not been requested before. Hell they will allow athiest symbols. Therefore, give them the due process to get it approved. Then, if they don't continue to rant and rave. Finally, I want to disolve the statement that the military does not recognize Wiccan. I am a recruiter in the US Army and when I process a soldier the question of religion is asked....and Wiccan, Athiest, and about a milliion more possibilities are listed. The soldier can also elect NO preference. I will continue to keep an eye on this story and will send my apologies if SGT Patrick Stewart's family loses the battle. In the mean time get the facts straight about "who" is to blame for this problem and remember in "your own" spiritual way our Fallen Warrior.

i definatly agree with u guys,but i think its because THEY FEAR WHET THEY DONT KNOW,so obviously they dont wanna do it, thry dont understand that wiccan isnt any different from like catholic or judaism it still means the same to him as religion does to a christian so.......that pisses me off we all have our rights!!!!!!!!!!!

IrishVampGirl...
Thank you for bringing your knowledge to light here. I appreciate that you will keep us updated on the status of this situation. I look forward to hear, what will hopefully be a justifiable outcome. For who would deny in death a persons peace.

just another reason i hate humanity.
well...closed minded humanity.
:D
blessed be

That Is Unbelievable!
It's a religion like any other, why not TREAT it like one?!
This outrages me to no extent..
& Yeah I Hope His Family Fights It To The End...

I am really sad now. One of the reasons the united states was founded was to make a home for the religously oppressed. Apparently that isn't true anymore. Thats just depressing.

I agree with Irishvampgirl the goverment sets its on timetable concerning things they may get around to but in there own sweet time

Irishvampgirl makes a wonderful point. That of which is not that they won't it's when they'll get around to it.

The military has standards and to change those standards takes time. Perhaps Wicca will be one of the 1st "non major" religions to change those standards and make it easier for the "smaller" religions to have their icons placed upon their final resting place.

But also perhaps they fear that if they allow this smaller religion to be recognized then when does this recognition end? Is there a possibility that there will be so many religions you'll need an encyclopedia to recognize them?

No I'm not saying that any religion is better than another or deserves to be recognized more than another at all. But when will religious recognition, of the different religions, end? Who's to say this one day won't be a discussion for the "religion of the flaming squirrel"? No I'm not making light of the situation in the slightest bit, I think the veteran should get what they deserve. But I just wanted to point out a possible train of thought of the political quagmire that is our government.

I say, standardize the headstone and the shape of the plaque itself and let the religious icons be representative of the individual buried there. Whether it's a cross, the star of david, or the pentagram etc....Then perhaps the standardization will still be there yet the freedoms of the plaques are as individual as the individual buried there.

I think he should be able to, yes. It is his religion, dammit. Just another example of the way Church and State are melded together, which is just wrong.

Forgive me if I am wrong but, isn't it because "they" said that Wiccan is not a real religon? That I don't understand because Wiccan/Pagan is one of the oldest ones very possibly the oldest one. The Wiccan symbols are everywhere through out the planet. This kind of ingnorance is totaly enraging even for those of us who are not Wiccan. Plus being from Nevada my wife and I are taking this personal.

Even though the Wiccan belief is a very ancient one (pre-Christian) it has only been officially recognised again as a religion since the 60s. SO of course the State does not officially recognise it.

Hell, they're more willing to accept JEDI as a religion...

JEDI is not real??????? "sob's quietly in corner"

There there its okay... just comee.. over... here...

*Hits repeatedly in head with wiffle bat*

Bad boy! Jedi is not real!

Now do a hundred lines...

i serve the military, and i am sorry to say that if you are not of the proscribed religions then you are what they will call an athiest. I believe that no matter what your faith. you should be allowed to be be buried as shuch and your headstone should reflect that. we are all human and most are american of the land of the free. i sacrifice much so that we can all die free.

petiton the gov. ask bush to allow us our freedom in religion--no matter what it is.