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I don’t believe in the three fold law, it was used originally by Lady Owen, she was taught by Mr Gardener in 1963, before then MR Gardner and Mr Buckland ‘s many correspondents never mentioned this law.
It’s not Karma law so lets not clump it together please, Karma law it was a boomerang law of Karma that both Gardnerian and Alexandrian said in the second degree of intonations, nothing like a times three for evil magic you may do back too you law.
Valiente (bless her), who was initiated by Gardner in 1953 and rewrote much of Gardner's early book of shadows, never mentions the Three-fold law in her early work and even went so far as to question its validity in a 1991 interview - a time when the Three-Fold Law was a common belief …..

I don't see why there has to be one special law of karma for Witches and a different one for everybody else. I don't buy that. I also don’t see the originators of your craft today eve mentioning it.

What say you, will you still fear it?

I believe in the 3 fold law .. It's there call it karma . But its there.

Hi Billy the just, WOW 1000 fold …… inflation going to kill me.
Hi Angelique 77 you can believe in what you wish flower and your right it’s not karma and I wouldn’t call it that what do you think about it becoming 1000 fold?

I don’t think we can place a numerical value on what shall return to us...Maybe on Tuesdays its 1000 fold... Friday 2 fold... I just really don't think there is any mathematical formal or number that foretells the boomerang affect magick has on us.

It dont make sense to me, nothing has ever come from it toward me, if people weren't so self consience thing wouldn't come back on them to start with, I think when something happens to you because of something you've done, it's because you wont drop it in your mind, so in turn you bring it on yourself subcosiecely.

Just my two cents

I agree there is no real rule on 100 or just three …. That is what im asking … knowing history … would you still support 1000 or 3 law?

you reap what you sow. in the end it all comes back to you, call it what you will but those that use people and hurt them will get whats coming to them. in the end no matter if you call it karma, 3 fold law, the end is the same, you reap what you sow.

no, i dont support them at all

I don't think they originally meant it to mean that negative energy will came back to you EXACTLY three times as bad if you send it out. Most likely the number 3 was just picked because it is the Ultimate Number, if you will, the number to represent Divinity and Creation. But, personally, I feel the main theory behind the Threefold Law (what you send out will come back to you) rings true.

I believe it to some degree..
I'd rather call it Karma that anything else.
I believe that KARMA is more likely to bite those who practice *occult type beliefs* in the butt. We are more likely to have karma come back to us *faster* because we are more likely to say that nothing is merely a coincidence. But- this is just my belief

I do not believe the three fold law is just for witches or magic users or what ever you wish to be called. I believe its is a universal constant.

I have seen it work in non witches as well.. the saying what comes around goes around.. do unto others as you would have them do to you... both speak to giveing what you put out.

I just think witches need to be more aware of it as we tend to put ALOT more energy out there than others so we will be getitng more back and I for one would rather it be positive.

I agree there are many wise words out there and we must all follow are own paths.
Karma is one law …… I like what Deepak chopra has on such ways.

Im like you Chrisg4202000, it’s not part of my belief so I don’t get hit by it and never have …. When you understand it’s not even historically correct the 3 fold law why would you fear it?

I do not fear it.

I.. mmm do I actually expect 3 times what I put out.. no.. I use it more I suppose as a reminder that the more negative things you put out.. the more likely you are to get them back. More of a reminder to be careful waht I meddle in as I am not always able to see all ramifications of an action nor all outcomes

i believe that if u are goin to follow the witches creed .wiccan reed,aradias covenant..whatever ure path may be,,the Goddess and Godss put these laws there for a reson and if we are truly gona live by our faith and our oaths then we must follow them frum the most complex down to the most inocent!

Well damn... could the Charmed sisters really have gotten it wrong?

it is said for each action there is a reaction, can be good or bad, and this is law that cannot be deny, so ether its the Three fold law or another it is still gonna bounce back, good or bad, nothing stay immobile force any action done.

I don't believe in the three fold law i believe in Karma like what goes around comes around, but spicific laws withholding you from doing things is inpossible because noone can hold you from free choice.

I am not real sure what to say to this I have heard about it in books and on movies but I have never heard any true things anywhere about it

I am going to agree with Billy on this -- I believe in sock gnomes and the karma policee. You give out negativity to the universe and you can expect to bebent over a barrel at some point. It is called balance.

I believe in Karma - but not necessarilly the 3 fold law.

Dark Greeting's,
I don't fear it as I am not Wiccan,I'm pagen.But what you do does come back 3 fold,Good ,Bad or Indifferent.
Dark blessing's,
KA
Proud Member Of Nocturnal Retribution

I practice Wiccan the three fold law is what you do to others comes back to you mind, body and spirit. It seals with the negativity we do give out in life. This is my belief.

From what I have always thought, Karma, & the three fold rule were basically the same thing or originated from the same theory. It is still there for none wiccans. Even christians have the saying do unto others as you would have others do unto you. (I hope I said that right) Being raised christian, then practicing wiccan for a time. I always saw these to basically mean the same. In church we were always taught that if you did bad things it would come back to you. It all boils down to karma, just some people or religions go by a different term for it. At least that's how I have always felt about it. Do I believe in it? Oh yeah certainly!

well i think theat carma and the three fold rule exist and they should express themselves in the fullest upon two people

lol at deadlxraven becarfull of what you wish for my friend or it just might bite you as well....so yes I belive in it.

I think that the three fold law and karma are sort of the same thing, or at least are based on the same principles....

I absolutely do not belive in the three-fold law. To me it's just dogma...I refuse to practice a religion/craft that is based on fear. There is enough of that in other religions. I do however believe in balance. If someone were to do a healing spell and needed an immense amount of energy, well then where does the energy come from? It comes from somewhere else and whos to say their energy need is more important than someone elses. Some would say that energy is limitless but I doubt it. Morality varies with each person and bad things happen to good people as well. I choose not to harm but it is not because I am afraid of something coming back on me.

i do believe in the 3-fold law, but not as fear. i believe in it as something to keep in mind to keep you on the right track. you need to have respect for others, and not be a ruthless individual. that's really all the 3-fold law or "karma" is about.

It should be called the law of investment.

I also associate it with magic penny (childrens song about love) lend it spend it give it away, it comes right back to you.

Anything you invest in multiplies... it's an exponent, and has ramifications, benifits and/or drawbacks that are not nessisarily measurable as apples to apples.

Anything that is hoarded decreases in Value. Not only by the very nature of inflation, but also by the nature of it's not being experienced (like unopened cabbage patch kids?)

but what really is considered "ruthless"? There would be as many answers as there are people. I would not purposely harm a living or nonliving thing because it does not sit well with my concept of right and wrong. It has nothing to do with thinking a bad deed has unpleasant consequences. I don't know why people need laws and consequences to govern their behavior.

Very well said Hexica
Im of the same school of thought, I questioned 3 fold and found it was not part of the original teachings I also find it’s not linked or should be named Karma.
So why have someone control your path?
If you do good for you and if you don’t good for you, I just wondered if any would change there mind knowing the facts …. Not propaganda

There is a universal truth that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. There are no numbers attached to them. Other than that, there is no three-fold law. Magick was so feared because it's part of the invisible realm, that people wanted something to keep people afraid of practicing magick to do harm. It's just a method of control.

I whole heartedly believe in the three fold law. Also, to point out, many things come in 3's, for instance, 3 blind mice, 3 little pumpkins sitting on a fence, 3 times a lady, 3 Musketeers, 3D, 3 leaf clover, 3 little pigs, 3 sides to a triangle, triplets, trio's, the 3 stooges, trilogy's," leaflet three, let it be", MP3's, primary colours: red, blue, yellow, 3's a charm, 3's a crowd, 3's in religion: the trinity, also the 3 kings, triglycerides, 3 mile island, the powers of 3, just to name a few. There is something about things happening in 3's.

I think people get what they deserve, be it in this life or their next one. I figure if I treat others and I would want to be treated, then it's all good.

I don't think the 3-fold law is made to try to control people with fear..

Mind the Threefold Law ye should--three times bad an three times good.

I myself believe in the Three Fold Law... Its has been in our beliefs for so long and yes some of has had this happen tothem early on without the learning and knowledge.. We live and learn.. some of us the hard way...

I don't believe in it. I know too many bad, unethical people who get away with too many bad unethical things... meanwhile good people suffer injustices at the hands of the randomness of nature.

Hogwash.

birra,

How do we know that those bad, unethical people will not pay for their deeds in their next life? How do we know that good people are not paying for something unethical and/or bad they did in a past life?

I believe what you give, you receive...perhaps not immediately...perhaps not in this lifetime, but the energy you put out into the universe will find its way back to you. The law of attraction works with negative and positive...it is a universal law and it does exist.

We don't always see results right away for an action (good or bad), but we do eventually.

This is just my take on the whole thing.

Sometimes that idea seems nice. But then you have to remember that no one really knows what's in the afterlife for sure. So really you could have these terrible people getting it great in life then dying happy, After screwing over all the people they possibly could as many ways as they could.

...Sometimes to me, the whole concept of the next life getting even seems like wishful thinking...
An indirect way of revenge.

How do we know there's a next life?

That's all in what you believe too.

I can't look at someone getting away with low ethical standards and say, "Oh, that's ok.. next time around I'm sure he'll be a stinkbug..."

You get one go-around.

And just how happy are unethical people?
It has been my experience that happyness comes with right actions and discipline over the 7 sins. Right actions are also known to be the only significant factor in self esteam. Unethical people usually substitute their lack of self esteam with huge egos. The ego never brings internal happpyness because then happyness is dependant on what others think of you and not what you think of you.

So, I think that unethical people do get payed back in this life with general unhapppyness.

However it is my primary belief that this world is an incubator for our spiritual body of the next world; and how well prepared or not our "souls" are will determine how crippled we start the next phase of our existance.

So

I think that the three fold law is great...it teaches people to honour one another and that actions have consiquences...

I think karma and the law is very real...and I will abide it the rest of my life

Nice point Birra and Morrigon.
Would karma follow you.. most karma believers believe it does to reincarnation and pay the debt back.
Thus meaning it doesn’t get you in this life by logical thought.
If we only have one shot at this life and karma believers state clearly you pay in the next life then you have nothing to worry about.
As for three fold it was only invented a couple of years ago and not by the originators of any magical system …..
Who needs a dogma to tell them to behave?

its hard to tell what laws are real and what arent you just need a good source really

I really only believe in Destiny, with a twist.

There are always choices that you make that effect your life...

Yes or No.
Good or Bad.
Right or Wrong.

These things influence your destiny, but your path is somewhat always the same.

I am a firm believer in the three fold law. I blieve that whatever you put out comes back to you three fold, whether it is good or bad, yuo get it back. The deeds you do can come back to haunt you. I have experienced it first hand and therefore I try to put out only positive energies. For those of you that do not believe it, I hope for your sake, that you never experience it.

yes I must agree choices are yours to make how you deal with life is yours to make.
I look back at my past and see how I arrived at a bad point and then look forward to the future making sure I don’t make the same bad moves or patterns …. Still has nothing to do with 3 fold or Karma

Call it the 3 fold law call it karma . But there is something there well all know right from wrong this just puts it in to a diffrent light...

I believe in the three fold law to an extent, definitely. While I don't believe its really that different from karma, I still believe it...It makes sense and seems to apply in many areas, so yeah, I fear it a little bit...Sometimes.

I don't believe in the three fold law. It's just a way to put fear into people for their actions.

i think its way for you to consider the effects of your actions before you wish the worst on someone or cast a spell that is harmful. i believe that everything has a price and it will come back to you but how many times mainly depends on the crime you done. know what i mean?

My feeling is that the "law" is something of a warning, much like "Measure twice, cut once"

Be SURE what your doing is right, and if your not sure, don't do it.

I've personally always like Runic Magic for the fact that there is no such law, as the "concequence" if you will is the extra effort required up front and the more subtle nature of the effects, therefor no lingering concequence to be paid for.

I do however believe in a form of Karma, If you do bad things, bad things will happen to you, but then again as you need bad things to happen to you to learn from, they WILL happen anyway! Slightly morbid, but that's how my day is pannning out :-)

I believe in the three fold law , what u put out good comes back good whatu put out bad bites u back harder and worse . Remember the three fold law is real.

There are countless articles on this subject ie;




The Law of Three

Author: Wren

The other "Law" of Witchcraft is the "THREE-FOLD LAW OF RETURN". Basically, this is the natural law of "cause and effect". The Goddess charges us to exercise great care in all that we, as Witches, do and say and even think. The Threefold Law takes the notion that "what we reap, we will sow", a few steps further..in fact, THREE steps further. For what we do "for good or for ill, shall be returned to us threefold." In light of this fact, Witches are loath to cause any harm, lest it be returned to them in spades!!




When we come to really understand the Three-Fold Law and it's ramifications, we can see that although on the surface, it acts like a prohibition, it also serves as a source of blessing. Witches seek to heal and to help all of Life, and when we are working for "the good of all", it is natural that the "good" will come to us also. But it falls on us multiplied and empowered..three-fold is quite an increase no matter what mathematical method you use!

The word "just" is defined as" that which is merited or deserved." With that definition in mind, you can see why Witches believe in the exercise of "justice" over "revenge". We are assured that what is merited by a persons actions will come to pass. We need only to ask the God and Goddess for "justice to be done". Since this is in line with natural laws and the promises of the Ancient Ones, we can rest in the knowledge that we are asking in a correct manner for the situation to be taken care of. Then we can release it to them to handle and go about our business.




"Revenge" on the other hand, is defined as "an urge to get even" (we've all been there!) or "to inflict harm in reaction to an insult" (we cannot go THERE! see: Witches Rede) It is difficult sometimes, especially when our loved ones have been hurt, to follow the principles outlined here...VERY difficult. Never the less, that is what we are instructed to do. It is a matter of trust...trust that the God and the Goddess will take care of it...trust that the Universal Laws apply to everyone equally...trust in the Three-Fold Law...and trust in yourself as a Witch, strong in your beliefs. We all go through deep soul searching when confronted with this issue. How we decide to respond tells us a lot about ourselves, what we give lip service to and what we really believe. It can be a valuable lesson that can change our life.

"The Great Mother and Father would not have their children suffer the indignities of oppressors for their sake, for what is within the hearts of Their children is dear and true to Them. The Ancient and Mighty Ones shall cause the balance to be made for those who desecrate the worship of the Lord and Lady, Their Temples, or their Creations" *


* quote from the "New Wiccan Book of the Law" by Lady Galadriel 1992

The rule of three goes back way before the date u made reference too in yer thread. I have read articles from hundreds of years ago. I am not wiccan, but I believe any energy u give forth,or good, comes back.

I for one bleave that karmic law and the three fold law are seperate laws yet they are of the same mind. They are not set in place to tell you what is right and wrong just their to help you keep in mind where you want to be going. peoples ideas of what is right and wrong is another disgussion all togher.

I believe you reap what you sow, what comes around goes around, etc. Call it Karma, 3 Fold Law, call it whatever you like. The universe has to balance itself one way or another.

I find that most cases of Karma are usually self fulfilling prophecies where guilt has led someone to make a poor decision for themselves and thus pay the world back.

If we look at some of the wealthiest or most socially irresponsible people in the world, their lack of guilt often astounds us. It's interesting to note then that these guiltless evils don't often get that smack of karma. Very few of these oligarchs actually have anything but a very happy guilt free existence and die just as rich and powerful. I believe their lack of guilt over their deeds is what kept them able to continually make choices for themselves and thus maintain their lifestyle and happiness free of any three fold law or karma.

Is that an argument to do away with guilt? No. It's simply meant to point out the fact that our "Karma" is likely self induced by our own conscience so if you think it's three fold, it probably will be and if you (god forbid) think it's a thousand...well then...my sympathies.

call it what you want you do things will ill intention to other eventually it comes back and its not like we have our own special law we just call it something else

I believe the law is there...whether you are witch or not. It's the whole do unto others what you want done unto you. Be good to others, you'll benefit in the long wrong...be bad...you're screwed, lol. But I believe it is still there, no matter what.

I will add my two cents here. I think of the Three fold law more as a way to explain things. I live under my own laws not those that others have writen in books but I value their insite in things and some times include these things into my own way of seeing things.

The way I see it What comes around goes around and what you mother always told you is true do un to other as others do un to you.

Be it the Karmic Law, the Threefold Law, or Murphy's Law, (lol) it all boils down to the same thing. If you're a jerk bad things will happen to you. So don't be a jerk. If all you surround yourself with is negative energy it's a no brainer that it will eventually come back to you.

Also, if you're a jerk, you will most likely only attract other jerks to try to take advantage of you in some way as you took advantage of others.

If you are a generally good person, you will find yourself with other good people.

Its what u believe is what u acheive and thats about the size of it.If you believe there is reprocussions then there are, but if you don't then there isn't any. Just have to change your programming and thinking is all. Its all just a matter of what you believe.

Dark Greeting's,
Along with the 3 fold law,"Be careful what you ask for ,You will get it" Good Bad Or indifferently.
Dark Blessing's,
KA
Proud Member Of The House Of Nocturnal Retribution

i think the name three fold law was supposed to be somewhat metaphoricall, or all emcompassing, i can't think of the right word, but somewhere along those lines. neither karma nor thre three fold law consequences can be measured. while karma and the three fold law aren't meant to be feared, just followed. they're definately related, but not the same. i thnk they both exist, if not in the universe then maybe in your head? have you ever done something stupid or bad, and then have some kind of logical consequence? i have. I don't know if it ws the universe saying something, or my subconscious, conscience making some thing happen. but for most people karma is there. maybe just in different forms. Possibly a different form per, religion or culture or something.

I don't believe in the three fold law. I do, however, believe that you should treat others as you want to be treated and I believe that things even out so if you send out bad energy you will get it back.

I agree treat others as u want to be treated, I believe it does come back to you. If you put out bad energy or good. Karma can be harsh if it needs to be.

Oh my dear sister we do know that things happen in three's around us now dont they. I am a firm believer in treating others the way you want to be treated and do your best by people because Karma will bite you in the ass.

call it what you will what ever you believe it seems you get what you give i have lived many moons and have seen this happen over and over again so a law no but I wouldn't temp it blessed be

I am not a big beleiver in the three fold law but am a firm believer in Karma, I have actually watched Karma unfold both to myself and those I am close to...

I do belive in the law, and live my life acordingly. Everyone who has spoken with me on this site says that I am very nice......there's a reason for that. lol

just as any law or condition, the law has its origins along the same lines as any morality law: it is for control of self...a warning that it is unwise to fall into malicious things and practices.... but just as anything in the left hand path... there is DUALITY... should never take the laws at face value... ponder their meanings

(DO AS ~YOU~ WILL SO LONG AS ~YOU~ HARM NONE) This is not only a warning to the practitioner.... But more along the lines of a warning to others: "If {you} cause me harm, then I am released from the laws and conditions of my laws".... I do not have to play nice anymore, AND I will be held blameless with a clear concious.

Oh this is such a pet peeve of mine. Supposedly Gardner was taught by this one branch of witches. He later formed his style via what he learned from them. He used old world terms to catagorize it and give it legitimacy but not all witchcraft is Wicca. It is like Protestants and Catholics...all Christian but different types.

The Three Fold Law was written for them and the Rede. Those that practice the old ways do not follow that.

This is sort of neowitchcraft. These are the tenets of that group and it has branched off into other forms. It is a religion that uses magick in their practices. This means all of this falls under belief systems and not any Universal Law.

Its like a Christian telling a Jew that certain things in the New Testament are Universal laws so they must practice and believe them.

Karma is from Hinduism. Its resurgence came out of the advent of those who looked to a new age of enlightenment. I believe it but not quite as in Hinduism. Those that come from Metaphycal / Spiritualist groups sort of brought this into the fore because they have the universalist outlook. They embrace many teachings.

But all in all its all belief systems and no one can prove otherwise.

I truly belive in the # fold law. Karma is a **tch. What comes around goes around. Eventually you get what you deserve, one or another. It all comes back around.

The law of three fold does not acctually link to a number i just means that more will come back than you originally dish out.

I don't practice magik [yet] but I still don't believe or fear the 3 fold law.

i believe the three fold law, but dont let it hold me back, its the same as all things fear is the main facture

Well Valiente wasn't around at the writings of the bible, and even then you were to do onto others and you would have them do onto you.

The effort of your productivity is enhanced by your intent.

You will get back what you dish out. This belief is timeless.

I believe in the three fold law, it is there for a reason...

WOW Tzaddi! You go! That's a mouthful. I can't see why this girl will not accept any answers, but you threw it out there in a nut shell!

I never feared it. I think that if you are a mean and malicious person then you will get your's in the end. It has nothing to do with magic.

There's far too many people that 'get away with murder' both metaphorically and literally for this to be a absolute truth.

Perhaps if we include the payback of karma in successive lives through reincarnation, there might be some sense of karmic justice but if we are only looking at one lifetime, it's hard to believe that everyone gets what they deserve. Too much innocent suffering. Too much power in the hands of morally devoid people.

I'm not religious at all.
I think that evil or good dont even exist.
Explanation.
What is good for me it its bad for u and otherwise.
So u do something bad or good don't expect something.
Just chill out and enjoy ur life

Karma, I definetly believe in it.

We are all people meant for diffrent purpose's. I have seen those, The more wicked they become, They better they are, And I have seen the reverse. remember that the world need's Balance.

Remember that simple saying, and things will be much easier on you.

Until reading this thread I had never heard of a three fold law.But I had of course the old saying what goes around comes around being related to your karma. You sin and it will come back to haunt you.

I think it was probaly meant to make sure you consider your actions before you commit evil actions on another.

I never feared it, but I have always respected it...

I never feared the three fold law, was always one to respect first before ever assuming or anything like that.

not 100% on the 3 fold i thought it was 10 fold.

but i think that its just trying to keep people from putting harmful spells on someone else, or to RESPECT your fellow human.

do onto others, as you would have them do on to you

they are lots of different sayings for the same thing

how many faiths say "slap your neighborer in the face and knee them in the tummy every 3rd wed of the month"

saying you do this and DOING it are two different things


so maybe having a "LAW" will strike some fear into some people. knowing what ever you do to someone is coming back to you 3, 10, 1k times really makes you think twice about being harmful to people

(i hope you understand)

Do I think that this law is real. Yes, every thing you do will cost you more then what you put into into it.

Some times I do something kind and need to pay for it (well it seems like I pay for it). Just doing a kind act sometimes seems to bring bad karma to me.

Should I ever attempt to try and real spell (other then mental things) I do feel that no matter what I will do I will haft to pay something. Even if it does nothing ill haft to pay.


Things must be in balance so even a kind act must be countered somehow. Just more selfish the act more you pay.

perhaps it si simply the wiccan version of the Golden Rule. All religeons have a do unto other rule. They are widely published as a group titled teh golden rule. However, wicca is not universally accepted as a religeon so I don't think it makes that particular chart.

many religions have there rule fore say..take the ten commandments .. or the laws in America are based on those exact rules .. most governing laws are based from the laws in the bible ..

I have to say that I do believe in the fact that everything comes back to you in 3s. the reason why I believe in this is because everytime I have wronged someone things seem to hit in the 3s. with my latest endeavor I was challenged in my own place of residence, tested with friends and the largest and last of all I was forced to relocate.

I don't believe in the Three Fold Law, but I lean more toward Satanism than I do Wicca.

It's my personal belief that if everyone behaved ethically, we wouldn't need some rule like that. To me, it seems like something someone wrote just to keep others in line.

Much like the people trying to write rules for the vampire community. I have city/state/country laws and I am perfectly capable of following those laws. I don't need someone else trying to govern me. Thank you very much.

I don't believe in the threefold law, but I do believe in karma; And it will come back to bite you in your...

its not neccisarily fear as it is about having the thought on your mind

anybody remember the gigo law of computers? garbage in , garbage out. i think the universe is the same way. you put garbage in, thats what youre going to get back...

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