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A ruling came dow today and now the Wiccan symbol is officially permitted by the VA on veteran's grave markers!

Link to CNN Story

This has been a controversy for some time.

Is this a good thing and the way things should be?

Or do some have issues with this?

I would be interested to hear your response to the news.

i think that this is a good thing because people put crosses on their loved ones graves and now we can have our religion shown aswell. if they have a problem with it they should take down the crosses. because wicca was the first religion...

That's odd, I didn't even know it hasn't been allowed in the past.

I'm glad it got cleared up because to me, it's really no one elses business what I put on my grave.

This is great news. I think that your gravemarker should reflect who you were as well as how long you were here. How you lived should be more important than for how long. I am curious about how many other states have similar restrictions.

This has been a long time coming in my opinion. I myself have this request in writing for my stone. It is not soemthing i want argued over when i am gone. My beliefs are well known to my family. I made sure that my whole family knows what my wishes are and my requests.
I was told to make sure to put it in writing for this symbol. I am now glad i have.

I don't see any problem with it either, honestly. I have my viewpoints and when I die, I wish for the appropriate symbol to be placed upon my gravestone. I don't really see where the controversy is.

I believe we are allowed Freedom of religion in this country, why shouldn't we be able to put the mark of our own religions to our graveyards.

I know that the military is having a hard time recognizing satanism and paganism.

I think its just another freedom that people are trying to curtail.

I like the fact that they made it okay to put the pentacle on the headstones.

But my confusion lays in, didn't the government stop paying for the headstones of veterans? I remember that was an issue when my father, a US veteran passed away in 2004. But if they no longer pay for them, then why should the government be able to regulate what can be placed on them as the symbol? That is my opinion, sorry it is kind of off topic.

Back on topic, I believe this should have been passed a while ago since so many people, including those in the military are adapting Wicca as their religion. I think a lot of churches who have misunderstood the meaning behind the symbol will have a problem with it, along with the "old-fashioned" people.

I think it's a brilliant move. In a country that was originally founded on religious tolerance, we've become very Christian-centric in our views.

"That's odd, I didn't even know it hasn't been allowed in the past.

I'm glad it got cleared up because to me, it's really no one elses business what I put on my grave."

This is in regards to Arlington National Cemetery. It's military.

I agree that it's no one else's business... but again, it's the military.
They're quite strict about what they're willing to allow.

Ah I see. That makes a bit more sense...Thanks for pointing that out.

Still I am glad that they have allowed it now. I can understand them being more strict about it, but they must have seen that if crosses are allowed...there really is no reason to exclude other symbols, I'm sure you couldn't put "666" on your grave...but would you really want to? :P

I find it a little odd to begin with that there is even a law saying what you can and cannot have on your tombstone. Sometimes I wonder where all our freedoms are going.

I am glad that it is now acceptable relgious affiliation in the eyes of the military. I have to admit that it seems odd that every single faith that any of our soldiers have would be accepted. These are people that are willing to put their life on the line to protect America and should be afford allowance.

I see no reason for it not to be allowed.
Where these are emblems that are being place on the headstones of fallen soldiers within National Cemeteries, there are fewer chances of the gravesite being used inappropriately as places of worship by self proclaimed devil worshippers or others (with no offense directed here toward satanists), as they are more closely watched.
As the wiccan faith is being more recognized as a religion nowadays, why shouldn't we allow it?

I think it about time. Different religions have different symbols, and it is only fair. Thank you for sharing this!

I think everyone should be able to put whatever they want on their graves. It is afterall your own grave.

all I can say is BOUT DAMN TIME!!!

I know this is off topic, but it regards a post earlier in the thread. VA is not used as the Virginia, but rather, refers to Veterans' Affairs, an outfit I have to deal with.

In addition to my comment above, I had no knowledge that this was not allowed in National Cemeteries before now but agree that it is a good decision in part because when a person enlists in the military, there are no restrictions placed on a person based on their religious beliefs and they're accepted as they are. This being the case they should be allowed to display the emblem of their faith on a headstone after dying in service of the military, even if in a National Cemetary.
I'm surprised it's taken them this long to pass.

I believe that it is a good decision because it is the right of a person to choose what religion they follow. The judgement was a good one.

I think that whatever the person wanted should be permited on their grave. I don't see how it's anyone elses business.

They have Wiccan services available at certain commands in the Navy, including Recruit Training Command and CVN-73. Why is it an issue, then, for it to not be placed upon the gravestone. That's double-talk and it should have been allowed the instant the military began allowing Wiccan services.

I think its about time

Bones:

That is one of the biggest arguments the Wiccans involved in the litigation made. Our Govenrment is so wacked out that the Veteran's Administration and Department of Defense do not have to be on the same page.

For some time now the DOD has been providing Wiccan Chaplains in the armed services. Yet, if the Wiccan solidier died, he was not permitted the symbol of his faith on his grave in a national cemetary, or on a VA provided grave marker.

If we, as a nation believe in "Freedom of Religion" I would hope that means all religions, not just the ones the majority pick. Lack of that acceptance is what caused the Pilgrims to leave Europe.

wiccan is its on religion and if people want to put it on their gave stones to tell the world that this was the type of person and that was the religion they believed in while living life then by all means it should be allowed then.

I read about that bill being introduced late last year. I'm glad that it was passed.

And let's not forget when our illustrious president decided to chime in on pagan religion...

"I do not think witchcraft is a religion, and I do not think it is in any way appropriate for the U.S. military to promote it." George W Bush (October 15, 2000)

I don't know about America but in the Ukraine and UK you can't chose what you can have on your tombstone even in a civil cemetary

You can't have words like 'murdered' or 'violently' they will make you have 'suddenly'

As far as the forum topic goes, I go along the emotional route:-

... if someone was prepared to die for their nation, the least that nation can do is respect their beliefs

As a Vet myself i believe that this is a good thing. Honor the fallen as they would like to be. Honor in service deserves Honor in death.

I feel that when you "die" you should be able to have whatever you want to your stone. In the USA we believe in freedom of religion. So why not follow that in death?

its never crossed my mind b4 taht it wasn' t allowed, but its cool ilike the idea of having a triquetra on my grave

I am glad that this has been resolved this way. Freedom of religion means for all, not just mainstream.

i feel like what goes on there is a personal decision and their should be no regulations on whatever you want.

this I find very good

I am very happy to have received this news today. I have been following this for some time, particularly the case of Sgt Patrick Stewart. A picture of his marker is found in my profile and his story is also in my journal. This has been an ongoing battle with VA and again I am happy to see the final outcome.

I am glad to see this lawsuit settled in favor of the family. While it's true the military has recognized Wicca as a religion for some years now the VA stopped it's process a few years back, at the time they claimed the expense of creating the new markers as a reason for refusal.
While it's somewhat understandable for the military to "own" it members, surely that ends when their bodies are returned to their family. The final respect their government can pay them for their duty and their loss is to allow their marker to reflect their faith, if they had listed it with the military as such.
If my memory is correct the Governor of a state out west, ordered his state government funds to be used to make a marker for a Wiccan soldier there whose family was one of the ones fighting with the Vetran's Affairs.
The thing that I could never understand is that if 38 religions are recognized and their insignia allowed on the markers, some of them very obscure faiths, why was such a fight over the Wiccan sign made?

wow...I ahd no I dea that something like that was going on. Whatever happened to freedom of religion?

The military is often a law unto itself, or so it seems. And government branches rarely know what the other branches are doing.

Military personnel have been able to practice their faith but the marking of the tombstone comes under a different branch of government.

I am glad to see they are finally getting together on this. Military should be able to practice in death what they have practiced in life.

"because wicca was the first religion"
this idea always irritates me as a non denominational pagan/shaman/witch
earth and nature worship was ONE OF the first religions....not THE first, and WICCA is less than 100 years old, the very baby of common religions..
it should still be honoured...which is what this thread is about, and the fact that it is now is a great step against the past wrongs against those of pagan faiths...
but on that same note there are other symbols which also deserve the same, this argument is a work in progress...not a finished issue as the US military suspects.

I beleive it is where the freedm of speech should never be retrain or limited in anyway as it is the last place where we can speak out. It is in a way our last word

I just want to simply say Im glad they're allowing the symbol to be put on grave of our fallen soldiers... it really is none of their business what chooses we make outside of fighting their war... for them to allow a pentacle on a soldiers grave is a huge step! and Im glad to see it! ^^

It's about time. I won't need one as I want my ashes spread to the four winds.
:)

Michael
LTC Army Retired

That is truly wonderful. Every other symbol can be placed on headstones why not Wiccan.

I think anyone brave enough to serve his/her country should have their beliefs recognized as he or she wishes, no matter what they are- they died for our right to live with our religious choices, they should be allowed to carry theirs to death if need be

That's really great, it should have always been.

Land and the free and home of the brave -unless you're Catholic or Christian don't expect respect.

High time! Here, here!

about time ... next they will let us face north in the grave yard

I think that this is great....i am a veteran and wanted that symbol on my headstone

Whatever that person would have wanted, is what the family and friends should honour.

I think it's excellent news...People should be allowed to show whatever faith they are. & about Imagesinwords posts, I didnt realise the military considered you as property...But then again Im not American & I've never heard of English soldiers as such, as people have probably seen on the news with our navy, they went to the press and earned thousands through interviews (the one woman with children & 15 men that were captured in IRAQ waters recently), it was supposed to be not allowed for them to go to the press but they seem to of gotten away with it, I haven't really followed it up after that

I think that all people should be able to decorate their grave as they want to. The family of the dead should not be able to change the wants of the dead. I think that the people who do are very disrespectful to the dead.

the fact that a dead person's family wouldn't be able to put a religous symbol of their choosing on a loved one's grave never occurred to me. I'm glad that they are finally able to. a cross shouldn't be forced upon somebody/someon's grave, that isn't christian. the wiccan religion was here first. Those who didn't stay wiccan were mostly bullied or scared into changing religions.

First, let's make it clear that Wicca was not the first religion. Anyone who says so needs to go do their homework.

Secondly, I'm glad that they are permitted to put the wiccan symbol on gravemarkers. After all, if they can die for their country as easily as a christian or muslim or atheist (who all have symbols permitted for their gravestones), why should they be denied the right of their religion?

I'm glad someone finally got that straightened out.

My mother once told me she thought that was preposterous. I asked her if that person's sacrifice had been less than any others, and if it was the same, then why should that person be denied the symbol of their faith? It is their right to believe as they wish and they chose to die for those beliefs as well as the beliefs of every other person.

Now if you really want to cause some irritation, you should post about that in a christian web board . I posted the original controversy about a year ago when this was brought into light in the media as having been denied on another webboard. It was fun to watch some people go up in flames in outrage about a pentacle being on a gravestone in our national cemetary to honor our military service men and women.

Personally it made me mad that atheists could have the symbol of the atom on their gravestone LONG before the pentacle was ever ordained as a possibility.

It's about time I think. Everyone should have the freedom to represent their faith on their grave marker. (In National Cemeteries, the government does provide the marker and gives you a form of symbols that are allowed and the number of characters, etc.)

i think it is so wonderfull i saw the artical on aol this moring, if there are cross and other symboles why not ours at least its showing were moving along in progress

I believe everyone should be able to represent themselves they way they wish. It's stupid to limit what people can and cannot do.

thank you jenova for reiterating that wicca is not the first religion......even as a pagan that misinfo irritates me..
to the fello in lebanon....I feel for you man...I know a few people over there....and they have told me the same thing.....sad when a persons personal feelings on religions cannot be accepted, no matter what those fellings are.
I accept that while living a soldiers life is under the order of governmental and military rule....they also accepted this upon joining....however once they have given their greatest sacrifice, then the military needs to respect the soldier, and stop trying to rule them...they already took everything else that soldier ever has or will have had into the next world

That's good - I think you should have on your grace a symbol of your faith

When I heard this news it made me very happy. for those that have family or friends in the military will tell you, that there are all types of dominations of worship. So why should'nt the symbol be used on their gravesite.

I'm very happy to hear that. I knew quite a few people that very on the same ship as me that are Wiccans. I think it's about time that they changed that.

i agree that Wicca (aka Pagan) was the very first religion ... where i live we have alot of temples still intact of the gods why not in this present day still show respect. bloody hell we live in a world where there are loads of religion and in the end of the day we are family. why this discrimination!? i have relatives who are not my same religion and beliefs but we show respect and love ... I am glad that Wicca is also being taking as a religion rather than oh my god you worship satan bla bla bla

I think it is a really good thing. Everyone should be able to express there religious beliefs equally...

IF they can take freedom of expression and make laws for it, why not this one? There is nothing wrong with it. All religions are considered such if people have faith.

Some of you are missing the point I made up there. When you are government property... you have a whole new set of rules.

I understand where you are coming from on that point I do come from a military family and understand that civilians rules do not apply to the ones in the military.
And that ones who are in the military do have to abide by different rules.

Wow I actually agree with the Bush administration on thier decision in not favoring other religions.

Being former military,I'm glad to see that this has been finally resolved,and mayhaps now those who are Fallen defending this country,may finally yet, be able to Rest In Peace, Blessed Be.

I am so glad that this has changed. Because what marks your grave or how you choose to be remembered after you die is very important and very personal. And to be told you cannot have representation of your own beliefs is crap.

I think this is good because no one should choose what is on your grave and by stopping the symbol is a way of descriminating against religions.

Evaleve - I believe the Bush Administration has been previously quoted as believing that Wicca is witchcraft and shouldn't even be recognized as a legitimate religion. That most certainly IS favoring one religion over another.

On a side note, has anyone heard of how Satanists are being treated by the military or the VA?

Thank you Daermon & Jenova, for pointing out that Wiccan is not the first religion. I wanted to scream when I saw that posted, but didn't want to get into a p*ssing contest with anyone here.

As for the gravemarkers...yes, it's about time they did this!

As for military personnel being government property, yes they are and if you are a veteran and want to be buried in a government cemetery, you have to abide by their rules, which up until now didn't allow the wiccan symbol on the grave markers.

When I read the news this morning, I was thrilled that it was finally being allowed. When my brother joined the Marines, he was outraged that he couldn't have the pentacle on his gravestone if anything happened to him. Personally, I feel that symbols for all the religions should be allowed to be put on the stone.

I it really is about time honestly freedom of religion shouldn't take that much time in the US .