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In reading the forums I hear a lot about Lilith. I read up on her last night, but I am curious as to what her role she plays in different religions?
In my reading it said she was a demon in others it said she was a representation of the Lady (the female half of god). I would also like know why she is so enchanting.

according to Judaism, she was the first woman. God originally made Adam's mate in the same way he made Adam - but she rebelled and refused to be subservient (the first feminist - yay!). she ran away, and refused to go back, so god made Eve out of Adam's rib - so she was bound to him. god is a bit of a sicko apparently, and is into all that BDSM stuff.

She was made on adams backside. Then split off by gods will, made to serve adams sexual desire. She wanted to be ontop, so she was banished. She was truned into the mother of demons who had to consume her young so every day she consumed what came forth from her loins by night.

The Az current, The feminine active principal to Ahriman as the Dark Masculine.

Why would it be wrong to want to be on top?

Because she was not to be above him but below him to serve him my dear.

In the Christian religion, Lilith was the temptress who betrayed Adam into eating the Apple and thereby casting him out of Eden.

In Sumerian religions Lilith was the handmaiden of the Goddess Inanna who was one of the original great Goddess archetypes (ie, maiden, mother, crone), and was responsible for choosing people to take part in Her sacred sexual rites.

She is the representation of feminine sexuality being free and unrestrained. Honouring her is very easy, just find ways to please yourself ;) Lilith evokes the independance and freedom in all women and thus can be very challenging for men to relate to. However a fantastic Goddess for all women =)

Here is some more info for you:
http://www.halexandria.org/dward382.htm (link opens in a new window - follow all the paths it's a great information source)

Hope this helps, if you would like anything else or to discuss feel free to PM me =)

In the bible, men are the ruling sex, so for a woman to be on top is for her to be in control. Which if you read in the bible, Jezebel, the whore, is in control and is frowned upon.

I've always felt that Lillith is in fact metaphorical of a older history...for the time when early societies were gender neutral and as things became more patriarchal, feminism was banished and it led to man's downfall from a better world (Eden)

...but it's also nice to think of her as a 'sexy bird who pissed off god' right?

Drakontion I will look into the info. Thank you. So why is it so different now and not looked down upon?

Well dear It is looked down upon in South Carolina because it is still on the law books that you can go to jail for having any kind of sex other than Missionary position (man on top).. That sucks too lol

it is more acceptable now because we are civilised and educated, and no longer ignorant savages.

But some still look at it as if it is still wrong..Seems like everything we do is evil and a sin but reading the bible what do they call that?

Yes...now we're educated savages.

not all of us were and seems to me ppl were Jealous of Lilith for she was equal..Some wants to do for their One but yet be their equal..whats the difference?

Well in my opinion, what makes a man better than a woman? Why did Lilith have to bow down to Adam? she is a woman a bearer of life.

Was the way it was suppose to be and some still do it that way also..I do it because i want to and not because it is expected of me..i am no slave to no Man but His equal and submissive if i chose to be

Well I think being someone's slave and their equal are one in the same.

nah. to be truly equal, there must be equal respect on both sides. if one is subservient to the other, there is not respect. you know, if god had thought to give those to cats a copy of the karma sutra, the whole thing would have been different. there are more than 2 positions you know.

thats is where most would disagree.

Slaves are slaves because they have no right to be equal.

IF you have a slave in a spiritual sense, if you have a servitor, it is something you created to serve you and it should serve you better knowing your pleased with it. It like a slave is less then the creator, just as man is obviously less then his god. So to subject a woman duality within this structure so then is a woman subservient to the man.

When lillith said F that, I am just as much of top as Adam, there you have it Lillith mated with the ones that lay outside the garden. She is the mother of all demons having lain with the beings mixed of impure mud, clay, fire, water, tempestueous winds and spawned the demons and devil, having to consume them each day. These demons are not the fallen angels, but the succubus, the vampire, the Lillitu, the Daevas, the Plauge, pestilence and all manner of ailments that affect the body, lillith is in Semitic Lore to be atributed to the creation there of.

You cannot have such a dark mother figure without a mate as nature hates a vacuum, So Ahriman the god of darkness, and evil took her in, and made her his equal. She is the active, he is the passive.

She is the fire He is the water, She the earth and him the sky.

So it's like night and day?

And i agree a slave has no rights what so ever and there fore have to abide by every rule rather they like it or not,...Where as a submissive is much like Their equal for they do have a say and will be heard

I was unaware that there was a difference.

*note to self* DO NOT move to South Carolina hehe

On a more serious note, When the Christian movement happened, along with everything else that had to do with women empowerment, Lilith and all Goddesses AND Gods were demonized and branded as evil. Anything of women or pleasure. Anything that they felt threatened the males being in charge or in control was condemned. Women were evil because man wanted to have sex with us, and it HAD to be some kind of witchcraft or the devil, for Goddess sake, men weren't going to take responsibility for their carnal lusts and desires, especially with their new found Christianity and Bible that said all these pleasures were wrong and a ticket straight to their hell.
All things pleasurable were/are sacred to the Goddess. All things pleasurable to the Christians are evil, very much the opposite.

very well said MoonSong...But if it wasnt for Sin, where would life be? wasnt how i wanted to say it but anyways...laughs...Lilith knew and therefore when and got what she wanted

wow that sucks for people in south carolina lol.
but how would they know haha.
i mean what is your next door neighbor going to call the cops and say "i think my niehbors are fuking doggie style" haha

maybe some doesnt understand D/s or even BDSM..Some may be so Christainfied it is a no no

Mormons are different in their self so maybe thats the problem

Lilith was NOT made from Adam. Lilith did NOT tempt Adam into eating the Apple, she was LOOONG gone by then.

According to the hierarchy of sin, Lilith is the only Pure Human (being without original Sin), as would any of her descendents be. She also has the True Name of God (or the Word spoken at creation, depending on the translation), allowing her pretty much free reign over all of creation. Also, as she is without OS, she is immortal ion the truest sense, being that she cannot die for ANY reason, as death never came into her from the apple.

Hope that clears some things up.

I never said Lilith was made from Adam..She was made like Adam..Eve was made from him..And wasnt His first wife either..LILITH WAS

if god wanted us to be good slaves, he shouldnt have given us free will. having children does not give you the right to abuse them and do with them as you wish. same goes for gods. who has the right to enslave someone else? as for women being equal - i want a woman i can respect, and i don't desire anyone to be subservient to me. Lilith is the embodiment of true woman, and if adam was a true man, he'd have appreciated what he had. what a dickhead.

Laughs and agrees Karn

Karnstein, your statements have earned you my respect~!

agrees with Ivy

Very well said indeed Karn!

winterdarkmoon Im a believer in god and i've had sex in alot of Diff ways lol so i don't think it has anything to do with that.
But also i've really made my own religon bc i don't believe in orginized religon of any sort. So idk lol.
Could be
I mean alot of christians are stuck up and irgnorant and arrogant and closed minded lol so.
I mean
hey maybe they'd be happier if they spiced it up a lil haha

And that is cool Kelsie , i believe is some but that is what has turned me among other things..I am a Satanist and proud of it..Doesnt make me a bad person for i am not..Unless one provokes me then oh well..Shouldnt matter if you are religious or not to try different positions..

Gotta play Jehjova's Advocate for a second. According to the Writ, Yahweh DOESN'T want us to be slaves. That's the point of free will. He wants us to choose him, commands it, and threatens us if we don't...but he doesn't make us. We are free to choose.

Jehovah? Rumor has it that Jehovah is not Christ or God,but in fact the older of the two Elohim,and not a very nice Elohim at that..

Jehovah is one of the oldest names of Yahweh.

I have heard that too.

(Knows this may turn into a feminist/shovanist arguement) (Stays the hell out of it.)

Lilith was the first wife of Adam it was not her who tricked Adam into eating the apple that was Eve. Lilith did not like the missionary position and Adams refusal to try other things and rebelled leaving the garden with the angel Samheil(Ithink that is the name I will look it up)
she was said to have grown wings and flown away from the garden. Later she was demonized for her actions

A less than angery response, and I opologize for the earlier remark.

We all know about the wars between the "Heavens and Hells", yes I pluralize as there are more than one of each. You are right, Samael did speak with Lilitu in the garden, which is why she rebeled in the first place, Lilitu did coax adam into eating the apple, Eve wanted no part in it. "God" sent Uriel into the garden to put a stop to the whole spiel, this is when Samael retaliated and Lilitu along with him.

Bannishing the three of them into differant places. All of this is in the Hermetic texts, greek bible...The one with none of the books missing. As in books, I am refering to Enoch, Mary, Caine, and Judas.

Where was I, oh yes...The bone. Lilitu was create the same as Adam, from the sands of the garden, after Adam and Lilitu had the sexual arguement, "God" got pissed, then sent Lilitu to the other end of the garden in a sort of purgatory. That is when he made Eve out of adams right bottom rib, which is why man has one rib missing. Check for yourself.

Now I wait for other responses, I am sure I am going to get a lot of critisisms for this one.

well all i know of lilith is that she was the first atempt of a wife for adam who didnt want to be lorded over by anyone so left eden

I think it odd that no one pointed out that perhaps the reason Lilith was persecuted was because these texts were written by MEN and she was just a mere WOMAN daring to defy a man? That was such a huge no no back then.

As none of us were around then, we have no idea what really happened or why; just that Lilith refused to play along. We cry foul at her treatment today, but really - this treatment of women was happening all the way up to what, the last 150 years if not sooner? Of course she was vilified!

Thank you all for you input. It has opened my eyes. I do think that sense most writings were from men it would make Lilith sound like a horrible being.

Sara

Don't get me wrong. Alot of the writing was by men. But the energy of the demonic current that responds when you seek out the Lillith energy/godhead/daeva what have you, is very repulsive, destructive, sadistic, visceral and down right nasty. Not one of the friendlier dark currents. Its not an energy that you want to wrap your self up with and snuggle in for eternity with.

Ahriman is not much better as he is just cold energy, Az is a firey pain, misery, and hatred. Its actually kinda sad from a general point of view but there is nothing that can be done or should be. Lillith is a torbid bitch, and everyone who seeks her out to be her friend will learn that. She uses people, and when she is done she destroys them for her pleasures,

Yes, eating your own children is pretty extreme lol I mean i have been bitter over a breakup, but wow. lol
I think she should of ate Adam but maybe she was afraid he'd like it ;) She wouldn't even touch him with Eve's mouth I bet.

I don't want to seek her out and be sucked in by her energy. lol. I just wanted to learn more about her.

WELL BABY I HEAR THOSE BABIES CALLING TOSSED SALAD AND SCRAMBLED EGGS....

????? i neaver knew anything about them ether thanx

Pretty interesting...some of those things I didn't know

I agree that these texts are interesting but where do they take us?

We could expand upon the need for balance of the Dark self by facing the Az current to create within the body the active red serpent coming off the dominant shoulder from the active force of the twin serpents. As well as the tests that the Daeva subject the seeker to in order to gain from such encounters.

The story of lilith is this. She the first wife of adam and is the dark sister of eve. She is also known to be the dark mother snd the mother of demons, queen of vampires and lucfier's wife.

DarkAngelDevina is a 100% right.

I knew Adam's first wife and something about vampires and her and cain but didnt know the rest..very interesting

I know when i found out i was like what???? then i looked it up and there it was told the whole truth.

According to the people that claim the myth to be true she exists in Judaism beliefs, however no she doesnt exist and it is pure myth. Kind of like how some people claim the great pyramids of egypt were made by aliens.

ive often had the suspision shes a modern invention,outside an obscure character from talmudic fairy stories

to me the only myth is the xtians wanting no-one to know about her..there was a Lilith mentioned somewhere's in the old testament concerning Cain and we all know he wasnt a myth

I think i better stay out of this one, sometimes my fingers engage before my brain!!

Here is some good information that i found out about lilith it tells almost everything about her.

Lilith Information

Lilith (Hebrew לילית) is a mythological female Mesopotamian storm demon associated with wind and was thought to be a bearer of disease, illness, and death. The figure of Lilith first appeared in a class of wind and storm demons or spirits as Lilitu, in Sumer, circa 3000 BC. Many scholars place the origin of the phonetic name "Lilith" at somewhere around 700 BC.[1] Lilith appears as a night demon in Jewish lore and as a screech owl in the King James version of the Bible. She is also apocryphally the first wife of Adam.

Around 3000 BC, Lilith's first appearance was as a class of Sumerian storm spirits called Lilitu. The Lilitu were said to prey upon children and women, and were described as associated with lions, storms, desert, and disease. Early portrayals of lilitu are known as having Zu bird talons for feet and wings.[1] They were highly sexually predatory towards men, but were unable to copulate normally. They were thought to dwell in waste, desolate, and desert places. Like the Sumerian Dimme, a male wind demon named Pazuzu was thought to be effective against them.[4] From these accounts Lilitu was a name for one figure and class of similar spirits.

Other storm and night demons from a similar class are recorded around this time frame. Lilu, a incubus, Ardat lili ("Lilith's handmaid"), who would come to men in their sleep and beget children from them, and Irdu lili, the incubus counterpart to Ardat lili.[5] These demons were originally storm and wind demons, however later etymology made them into night demons.

Lilith's epithet was "the beautiful maiden". She was described as having no milk in her breasts and was unable to bear any children.[6][7] Babylonian texts depict Lilith as the prostitute of the goddess Ishtar. Similarly, and corresponding to Babylonian depictions, older Sumerian accounts state that Lilitu is called the handmaiden of Inanna or 'hand of Inanna'. The texts say that "Inanna has sent the beautiful, unmarried, and seductive prostitute Lilitu out into the fields and streets in order to lead men astray". That is why she is called the 'hand of Inanna'.[8][9]

Identical to the Babylo-Sumerian Lilitu, the Akkadian Ardat-Lili and the Assyrian La-bar-tu presided over temple prostitution. Ardat is derived from "ardatu", a title of prostitutes and young unmarried women, meaning "maiden". Like Lilith, Ardat Lili was a figure of disease and uncleanliness. One magical text tells of how Ardat Lili had come to "seize" a sick man.[1] Other texts mention Lamashtu as the hand of Inanna/Ishtar in place of Lilitu and Ardat lili.

Lilith is also identified with ki-sikil-lil-la-ke, a female being in the Sumerian prologue to the Gilgamesh epic.[10][1][11][12] Ki-sikil-lil-la-ke is sometimes translated as Lila's maiden, companion, his beloved or maid, and she is described as the "gladdener of all hearts" and "maiden who screeches constantly".[1] Another female being (or ephithet for Lilith) is mentioned alongside Ki-sikil-lil-la-ke: Ki-sikil-ud-da-ka-ra or "the maiden who has stolen the light" or " the maiden who has seized the light" and identifies her with the moon.[1][13]

Likewise, the earliest reference to a demon similar to Lilith and companion of Lillake/Lilith is on the Sumerian king list, where Gilgamesh's father is named as Lillu.[10][1] Little is known of Lillu (or Lilu, Lila) and he was said to disturb women in their sleep and had functions of an incubus, while Lilitu appeared to men in their erotic dreams.[1] Such qualities are further suggested by the Semitic associations made with the names Lila and Lilitu, namely those of lalu, or wandering about, and lulu, meaning lasciviousness.[14]


Jewish tradition
A Hebrew tradition exists in which an amulet is inscribed with the names of three angels (Senoy, Sansenoy, and Semangelof) and placed around the neck of newborn boys in order to protect them from the lilin until their circumcision. There is also a Hebrew tradition to wait three years before a boy's hair is cut so as to attempt to trick Lilith into thinking the child is a girl so that the boy's life may be spared.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillith

hmmmm interesting thread...
....Makes note not to move to South carolina.... However has not ever heard of this Lilith but personally I dont mind being on top or bottum it whatever goes .. Hell i know lots of Men Who are dominent over the Woman and still prefer to have their Woman on Top so they can gaze up upon the beauty fo what it is they Own and or Love.. is gonna look into this lilith thing she interests me now

well I admire her no matter what she did she was her own and had free will sooo ...

lol have to wonder if Betty Friedan and Gloria Steineman went as Lillith for Halloween once or twice. Always a fantastic topic, the "evil woman" in traditional Christianity. I think she got a bad rap cos she wanted to share in the pleasure of procreation.

thank You RavenKnight..And Jez for the interesting readings..This is a good thread to learn of many forms and beliefs of Lilith..

good read learned alot today

she is mother to all vampiers and somone who commands respect if you wish to learn more contact me somtime

The one I hear most often is the one about her being Adam's first wife. She wanted to be on top which was looked down upon, so she ran away. I have also heard that later she was the one who tempted Adam and Eve into eating the fruit (the theory that she was the snake and not the devil).

And, uh, yeah no South Carolina for me...

Again I will state EVIL and LIVE are mirror images of one another. Lillith was a woman equal to Adam, and she knew it. She was someone who knew, she had knowledge which is why she was equal to Adam. When she chose to fight for her rights she was banished, and it is said that she became the first vampire. She realized that to live free of domination, in a male ruled society was evil, yet she made her choice. Just as we all must. I would rather live, and make my choices, and thus be evil, than be a prisoner of someone's conceited, and self rightous ideals

I live in South Carolina..lol not that bad..

Hmmmmmmm, how do you look down on the one on top. Seems physically impossible.

i have heard the same thing as illuminata has but i didnt know about eating babies..where did that come from?

I had no idea this was still active. Thank you for all the additional information.

first and only woman..hum..pretty enchanting! first to tell a male to frick off! go girl. she pissed god offf because she refused to obey him. so, he banished her, thus the legends.

interesting thread

Lilith was Adam's first wife, before Eve. She slept with the devil and produced offspring which went on to be a new league of demons [succubi and incubi, primarily] but legends say she also created vampires.
Lilith is also the head succubus.

I have heard that also Kathryn and involved Cain also...She was made like Adam and therefore his equal..very interesting indeed

So would that make Eve a lesser being?

isnt sure on what that would make eve..she was made from Adam so i guess in my opinion yes lesser being..

this is very interestint thread I believe that there are alot of different views on the whole thing and who is to say whom is all correct or not on the difference of LILITH

Most of what i have read here is like what i have heard..She was Adam's first wife and got eve to eat the apple..lots of things i heard and read also

According to various myths and legends, mainly Hebrew and Jewish, God created Adam and Lilith each from a seperate rib on his body. She is said to have a womans face, long black hair and wings on her back. Adam always wanted sex in the missionary position and Lilith wanted to be the one on top. Adam refused to allow Lillith to be on top even though Lilith stated that they were created as equals. This led to much bickering between them that one day after Lilith could take it no longer, she muttered God's name and flew away from the Garden of Eden. Lilith inhabited the shores of the Red Sea which was populated by Demons as they're attracted to water. It was here that she had countless sex sessions with the demons and bore 180 children a night.Three archangels were sent by God to bring her back to serve Adam's whim. Lilith refused and struck a deal with the archangels and told them that if the angelic amulet above the head of infants bears a resemblance to them or each of their names, (Senoy, Sansenoy, and Semangelof), she would not slain the baby infants. Boys younger than 8 days old and girls younger than 20 days old were Liliths main targets. God was angered with her refusal to return and punished Lilith by making one hundred of her demon children perish on a nightly basis. God also spitefully turned Lilith against her own children for refusal to kill human infants that had the angelic amulet.

Because of this, Lilith is the one who kills young children which is why in ancient times many of the Jewish faith would place an amulet around their childs neck with the names of the three archangels and a saying which roughly translates into: Lilith begone.

To have enough children, she steals the sperm from sleeping men and is blamed for wet dreams along with SIDS (sudden infant death syndrome). (Courtesy of Dennaveve Kalanam).

More Info...
Lilith is said to be the first immortal in history, or the mother of all demons, and she was also a seductress. Not only would she strangle baby infants (could've been cot death), she would seduce dreaming men would could in turn become her victim. Because of this, Lilith is sometimes referred to as a Succubus, a demon who seduces men into breeding with her, then killing them and drinking their blood. All this she would do at night. In ancient Jewish religion, circumcision was performed on the baby infants to protect them from Lilith. Also to protect the newborn, parents were advised to draw a charcoal circle on the wall of the room, and write inside of it "Adam and Eve, barring Lilith." On the door they were supposed to write three names of the angels Senoy, Sansenoy, and Semangelof.

During the time she was living near the Red Sea in a cave she met up with Sammael (aka Lucifer/Satan) and went down to "hell" to marry him. They had a grand amount of perverted sex and she bore him a daughter (also named Lilith) which is why you see two images of Lilith in mythology. The older Lilith: the mother and the younger Lilith: the daughter. Being a free spirit Lilith left and her daughter took up the role of fornications with daddy in hell. Also Lilith is represented as an owl many times in the bible and torah. (Courtesy of Dennaveve Kalanam).

I was curious about Lilith, but after reading these posts, I think my head may explode. Thank you to everyone for the education. It is very informative.

I think lillith is meant to be the oppositem of adam and eve (in judeo christian beliefs)

In the empire building contests of yore every conquering horde brought its own beliefs which they insisted the conquered embrace. To make it easier, a few smarties incorporated beliefs from the losers, sometimes thinly disguising the main characters.

The original pagan belief system was goddess based, and matriarchal.

It stands to reason that a patriarchal winning team might want to put down the cherished Goddess Lilith.

Just to muddy the waters further: Adam's first wife was a relic of an early rabbinical attempt to assimilate the Sumero-Babylonian Goddess Belili.

Here's my favorite part: Hebraic tradition said Adam married Lilith because he grew tire of coupling with beasts, a common custom of Middle-Eastern herdsmen . . . .

Women's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets

i personally do not know alot about lilith all i know is that she was supposed to be the first wife of adam and then she got kicked out of the garden of eden for disobeying him.

well thank Gawd! Lilith fought for the right to be on "Top" lol... and we all see what eve did while in the Garden..... even in Lilith was cast out and the men could only curse her ... since adam Nor "god" could control Her..... go Girl Power..... Hahahahha

Man...What a thread...Filled with Feminism,sex,betrayal,chauvinism,apples,
demons,what not.....

Its pretty fascinating how much interest crops up about a figure in a particular 'fantasy book' filled with nothing but contradictions,lies and a lot of crap....Hee heh...Guess we human beings like to have a good laugh eh?

*Ooh ooh look at me I'm Adam and a girl just popped out of my rib,now at last i can give vent to my perverted thoughts,and our children can perform incest and i no longer have to quarrel with Lilith who makes me look like a complete D@$k*

Being the true first woman is overwhelming in mythology. Lillith is also the ultimate girl power symbol.

I did not mean to sound like that..But that is the way i have been told about Lilith..She was made like Adam and not from Him as Eve was..That makes a difference..

shes one woman who does what she wants... and theres nothing wrong with that

sorry adam sounds like an ass and the whole religion that promotes lilith as a deamon also demonised other good gods......
take it with a pinch of salt shes good and very loving.
as for yehaw and such ... they sound bad to me

That is true but i didnt mean to come off sounding that way...She was equal..

this could go in 3 diffrent ways

above him

equal

and below him


it all really depends.

thats true i suppose..

This thread has been automatically closed for length.