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Stupid question. Any theories out there where the first vampire came from?

Lilith would be a good start. Though was she a true vampire?

Please explain how lilith was a vampire???

KnightLevin~

http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~humm/Topics/Lilith/alphabet.html

But even this theory is flawed

I read the entire page , but I still see no reason to concider her a vampire. So could be linked to crib death but not a vampire.

Lilith was an ancient goddess, a really great one, whose fecundity and sexual preferences show that she was a Great Mother of settled agricultural tribes. They resisted the invasions of nomadic herdsmen, represented by Adam.

So the farmers might have slew a few invaders and ritualistically drank their blood. So what? The blood is the life. That doesn't make them vampires.

But the farmers didn't win, and the victorious needed to slam their goddess, so they made her evil.

Thank you :) Tha is a bit more clear.

So BloodMother, was she evil, or made evil by those who feared her influence. Does assuming a dominant sexual role make a woman evil?

shadowfever~
I would agree with BloodMother here.

Five thousand years ago if a woman took the initiative in anything other than cooking and child birth they would indeed seem unusual, to say the least especially pertaining to sex. It was only this century that women have been allowed to vote

I agree, I believe an aggessive woman at that time, one not afraid to express herself sexually, or any other way would be considered dangerous. I find her fascinating and exciting. But, in some ways, things haven't changed much. In many places she would still be considered evil.

In 1908, a team of Italian archeologist uncovered a relic in the Minoan Place of Phaistos in Crete, Greese. A similar object was uncovered five years later in Ismir, Turkey, the Belzeit Tablet. In 1600 B.C. this mystery society operating in the shadows of the ancient Greek city-states with a clear connection to Egypt and the Hebrew Tribes on the other side of the Mediterranean Sea could best be described as a society that practiced a ritualistic worship of beings that were vampires.

I have heard Lillith as well but I have also heard of Lamia as the roots of the vampire. Lamia was the daughter of Poseiden and had an affair with Zeus. Hera had their children murdered which led Lamia to murder children. In Greek her name means "large shark".

So I guess it depends upon whether you prefer Greek mythology or the lost books of the Bible and the legends descended from them.

Doru, do you have a picture or a link or a description of this "vampire" object?

Blood ritual predates Jesus and the wine, btw, and menstrual blood, as well as ritual sacrifice (animals probably, altho humans are a possibility) was used. The ancients didn't understand it, probably not even the women. Most of the words referring to it were metaphors to magic, wine, and river images.

The negative, unclean imagery came later, with the patriarchy.

Not a stupid question at all, almost every culture in the world has a myth of a creature that bears many similarities to the vampire throughout the ages. I've heard theories about lillith, theories about the nephilim, I've heard theories that these were primitive people trying to grasp an understanding about death and dying, sort of a universal unconscience thing. I don't believe we will ever find out where the myths originated from, just that we realize the vampire has lasted and become a part of our society, and continues to evolve with every telling and writers imagination. In the beginning myths, vampires were plagues upon villages, half dead monsters who rose from the tombs at night to harass innocent villiagers. Now the vampire has taken on a cult status, a dark sexuality that most find very appealing. As to where the vampire will go next is anyone's guess but I think its important that we don't forget that every myth has some basis in fact.

what if and i mean what if hollywood was right and two people were cursed back in the day and they became that way making more and more as time went on.

If their are or were true vampires no one could tell when or who the first one was, but like other people has said lillith was i believe the first person that was made to seem like a true vampire...

What is getting me is that How do you make the connection of Lamia and Lilith being a vampire at all?? All everyone has stated is that they killed chidren. Nothing about vampirism at all. So where is this connection being made between them killing children and being a vampire.

The theory about where the myth of vampires first came about is going to depend on who you ask. Many countries have their own legend about the vampire.

the web sites for the Phaistos Disc and the Belzeit Tablet is:

www.stygianlabyrinth.net

I saw a progrma on T.V. that talked about the history of vampires. I wish I could remember what channel..... It stated finding evidence that vampires were found very early on in Asia, it was even depicted in carvings and paintings.

Lilith was not the first vampire..Caine was..lilith gave him the disiplines(sp) caine was cursed by 4 angels each curse was diffrent one was for him to only walk in darkness and the other was to survive on human blood. If anyone would like more fact on this look it up on Wikipedia.com

There are far too many stories that claim to be the roots of the vampire. Many say Judas, some say Lilith. It all depends on where your from and what you choose to believe in.

Artemka has two articles in Member Articles about various vampire myths. Written as a list, short and fast. Worth reading and rating.

EvilPleasure~

Caine was never a vampire, it really does depend on interpretation. Some things are not meant to be taken literally, or out of context.

They were just discussing that in another thread, It says nothing in the bible about him being cursed. Nor, have I found anything to link Lilith. There is no truth to any of these stories. Vampires are nothing more than myth. I would truly love it if vampires were real, but they're not.

If anything Cain would seem the most likely of the theories brought up. So far I have noticed a very discouraging lack of talk about alieans creating them from pygmies though :P

Try Hollywood beefing up old legends. Or go check up on Vlad the Impaler. Might be a better place to do research than the Bible as there are no vampires mentioned there as far as I know.

I would try finding why the word curse is so apparent, then finding a source where vampires originate, such as ancient egypt where origins seem to lingure the most. Then cross reference fact and fiction to see what you come up with. Starting all over again with differant variations.

I would also go further back than the biblic Caine character, by researching how the white wolf companies came up with the clans themselves. These names may have been changed or made up, but they may be relevant. Worth a try.

Some say Vlad some say Lilth who really knows where it began

i have read in a book that the first vampire was a fallen angle of god and the devil gave him his love back at his sevant, but that could just be a story for it has many different verion. but all the other one that evey one else post sould a little more beleive.

There are way too many versions and accounts of events so I don;t think we will ever truly know where the roots of Vampires lay. I have read and heard many different stories and have found each very interesting in their own ways.

In saying that, I have never really seen any light in the Judas theory, but that is just my own opinion

when it comes to Lilth it deends on wich culture your talking about I have read that se is everything from a goddes to a succubus all though most all agree tat she was Adams first wife

I always thought the first one was dracula but then that may have been only in the movies.

yes Dracula was only in te movies although Vlad Tepesh was te real erson used as the model for him

Honestly unless we were in this place amongst those assumed to be vampires. We will never truly know for sure who was the very first vampire. I gotta see them to believe them. Just believing what one reads isn't always proof. =]

I also heard theories of Lilith. It's hard to say what's plausible and what's myth and where it all came from. There's many ideas and legends and countless versions of the origin of vampires.
I'm sure there were others before Vlad Dracul, if there were any at all. His story is very interesting though, talking about the actual person of course. The thing is that it's too far back in history to come to a conclusion of what's real and what's myth. There's no real way anyone could know the truth, if there is one that is.

Vampiric soceities existed before Vlad The Impaler, see Mircea cel Batrin (Mircea the Old), Vlad's grandfather, Phaistos Disc, or Belzeit Tablets... the list is endless...

I would have to agree with Lilith being the first Vampire .

no matter the roots of vampires... they exist... Lilith was replaced by Eve when Lilith took off and that is another story...

Conjecture, but try this on for size: very ancient person finds himself in precarious situation close to starvation. Kills his companion slowly in order to survive, drawing blood from him. Likes it. Gets back to civilization and discovers a lingering desire for human blood. this person is a gifted storyteller and tells his story of survival to rapt community; story takes on new spiritual overlays and soon there are religious mysteries, inductions and secret societies, all requiring human sacrifices and imbibing human blood. Voila! Vampyres.

good analysis, but just drinking blood of it's self does not make one a vampire...

There are so many theories on this subject, as in how the earth was created, no one can ever know for sure.

All of which is true, yet to discover new and unknown therotics is to live and our nature, at least mine.

I guess it would all be a matter of what you wanted to believe. Especially since there are plenty of theories to go off of. Its an interesting question but Id personally prefer to not know. Some things are just meant to make you wonder and think. Thats how I feel about this one.

I await the day, although I know I will not be here for it, that humankinds greatest mysteries are solved or at least a little light is shed on.. if mankind makes it that long, that is.

my guess would be vlad or lillith
but thats only my opinion, but i really dont think no one knows

I don't believe either Vlad or Lilith. They have both been made to seem to be vampires through many myths, legends, and suppositions. In both cases either could be considered a hero/heroine or a vile, ruthless bloodseeker. Perspective, and your interpretation of history. And we are "assuming" that the vampire of myth and legend even exists, otherwise this discussion is relevant only in terms of whimsical conjecture.

An author making a story more fictional and out there, than what really happened, of Vlad Tepes.

There is no first vampire. This is a legendary being. You may have people that PARALLEL the myth, but that's all it would be.

To find the first myth, travel back in folklore.

Nitemaire and antithesis are exactly right.

Doru: just drinking blood of it's self does not make one a vampire...

Do you agree that drinking blood is a good place to start?

If not, what would have to be in place first?

Second?

I would say it was likely an evolutionary hiccup triggered by a high blood intake in the diet. I am a big fan of the scientific take on things though.

Too many theories, no proof :) I think it's all legend... and with all these stories over time we've got ourselves a breeding ground for novels to last centuries more.

from people who baithed in blood to preserve their youth

Some say from Lilith. The legends of vampires also come from the monstrous acts of Vlad Tepes.

Vlad Tepes Dracul was made famous by the book "Dracula" by Bram Stoker. There have been numerous documented vampire's before Vlad's time.

Not sure... They more than likely have lived among us for a long time..

I meant modern vampires, actually.

the two people you are looking for are mother lillith and father cane

I'm so tired of people repeating the same old nonsence about Lilith without fully investigating it.

She was not a vampire. There's a link at the beginning of the thread, and you can decide for yourself.

She was totally unfairly dissed.

Another goddess maligned by the patriarchy.

I have heard many stories about how vampyre came to be, theres the whole Cane story where due to his sins God cursed him to walk forever, then theres the story of Adams second wife, and also I have heard stories told of the actual vampyre gene to stay being alien in origin. I love ot hear all the stories for each one has a little bitt of believable story line to them. It would be interesting to find some type of ancient book telling of the vampyre history. Until then its philosophy for me.

I think Bloodmother's analysis on the "blood-drinking ritual" would be ripe for picking. I don't think Elizabeth Bathory was mentioned here (and I'm not implying she's the first vampire either) but the idea that she loved to bathe and drink blood to sustain her youth and life would only indicate that blood-drinking and being immortal might be two closely-tied concepts. Then again, maybe she was just sick to the core.

all the diferent stories of the first vampire..if you look at the drinking of blood makes you a vampire you should go back to olden days when hunters would drink the blood of the prey animal or the blood of the enemy as a ritral to asorb their power. but then as civilation grown drinking of the blood and eating the flash of an enemy became barberic and taboo and was frown apond. so if you partake in the old ways you wer demd evil and branded as a vampire or a demon.

Well, I am not sure with all the theories on the plate, but I believe it would be safe to assume and speculate further, that the first vampire perhapse came out of Space?


Who knows....

You know I don't always read most of these threads in their entirety, but I have to say I found this one fascinating. Bloodmother I did find your posts most enlightening as well. Doru thank you for that link and I will check it out definately.

This topic has been done alot. No offense meant. Some say Lillith, others say Caine..No one can really know for sure where vampires do come from originally as none of us were there when that first vampire came to life. (pardon the pun..lol)

One thing i have often wondered is how the first Vampire did come into being. Think about it ...How did it happen as there has to be 2 Vampires to make 1 vampire or was it an immaculate conception like
Jesus was?

Ok, where do the Incans/Mayans fit into this? I cannot think of a more "blood-driven" society..

Cain as the first vampire comes from the role-playing game series Vampire: the Masquerade, the curse of Cain is that of vampirism. Here, Cain is spelled "Caine" and becomes the father of all vampires after being cursed by God.

Honestly it would depend on which religion youlook at. Roman, Egyptian, Christian all have some form of this as do others.

human fear

Look into who Lilith is.... just a cap... oldest known vampire.. said to be the mother of all vampires... I hope that helps you discover what you want!

This is one of the theories I have heard also about lilith being the mother of the vampires.

i have no clue exactly

Funny thing is I'm positively sure in the Main Menu under "What is a Vampire?" it tells you the answer to your question.

I am in total agreement with BloodMother on this issue....

Tego -


That doesn't give every opinion though.

it depends on which clan of vampires you are talking about.

There seems to be one being left out of this picture or I missed seeing it posted.
The most logical person to have been the first vampire was Caine himself.
lets look at the facts,

1.Killed his brother and offered his blood to God.
2.Was marked by god for doing this.
3.God proclaimed none shall be able to strike him down.(so the gift of immortality or more?)
4.Was told he would travel the lands live in nod and only rest when the sun arose.(The Land Of Nod often called the land of dreams and eternal night).

I have to go with what RazaelRiezen has posted. I always believed the first vampire was Caine.

Yes it would make sense that Caine would be. He fits into all catorgories in a real sense. But anyone in history who was powerful, murderous and had pure lust for blood and power could be deemed the first. But Caine is as far back as we can trace thing so to say.

I think as far as the fallen angel he became the devil didnt he.

Yes, I believe he was an archangel.

Your thinking Lucifer not Caine

Caine was adam and eve's first son he was not an angel fallen or any other kind.

Lucifer tried over throwing god lost landed in hell with all his followers and became the devil.

Caine does fit into all category one of the oldest figures recorded in some means or another and the things done to him for being the first murderer makes it more so.

Caine was cursed by god for killing his brother out of jeoulousy, he was cursed to forever walk the earth alone unable to die, unable to find peace, some beleive he became a vampyre but it doesn't actually state that anywhere in the bible, also it is said there are seven disiples of christ who where granted immortality and are still here, so ya know, they alll make interesting reading.

very true
it does state that.

So finding the first vampire would be like trying to find who was at fault for killing Princess Diana it probably wont happen.
Caine is a likely subject as is Judas Iscariot, Suicide never looked good and such, however trying to look into the history books as good as we can and eliminate what we know a vampire is not we could possibly find the cause of Vampire.

Lets clear a few things up with Cain. He killed his younger brother because he was a royal pain. He teased and wanted to offer grain as a offering instead of the traditional animals sacrifices that was followed in the first Eden. So Cain killed him period. Adam, not God, decided it best to have him move to Nod. But he did not have any tribal tats so he asked for his mother's advice. He was given an adjuster, God's protection/ mark, to keep him safe in Nod. He worked at night in the fields so he never saw the sun. So what, so do I. Since he did have God's help and safety, he became very well known and liked and later a great King.

Imagine that, nothing about vampires.

And I'm still waiting for that first real vampire to come.

hmmm. Where did it say he became a king billy?I never heard of that part.

However are you sure it was a protection mark?When it stated God cursed caine with a mark? A curse usually is not a good thing.
Not to contradict what you have stated just writing what I have been raised and read, I am sure there are numerous versions of caine's massacre out there.

NocnaMora: You are correct. When I posted I don't think I read the question. I think I had a bit too much wine.
I didn't answer the question. Unfortunately I don't have and answer.

Justsomeone: There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers, yes?

It's all so very much 'the chicken or the egg' theory.
Legends and myths are born on this.

I think you may be waiting quite a while, Billy.

I remember one of my professors talking about Lilith He said she came before Eve, but was too independent to be anyone's wife.

well i agree with raveknight on the not knowing part at least

I was reading on someones profile this morning about how the people in Eastern European villages would deal with vampires. They talked about the blood poring out of their victims hearts and that there was no decay. I started thinking to myself that these could have been poor people who were in comas. In the olden days there were plenty of premature burials. And don't forget they would lay the corpse out for viewintg also. I think this could go a good way in explaining how the idea of vampires came about. What if they thought the poor person was dead and they started waking up?

I think the first "vampire" came from deep inside someones imagination

BDR -

'Modern' or 'fictional'?

-though both are the same to me-

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