What do you think vampires would show under a DNA blood test? and why would they show it?
Technically the vampire is still a human, but for sake of discussion we think of viral vampires as non-human or as the next step up in human evolution. This is difficult to believe because many of the attributes of a vampire are, well, considered to be better and more developed than humans'. The strength, speed, enhanced mental and/or psychic abilities, the ability to digest human and other blood more efficiently are but a few of the differences. The reason this happens is the basic human DNA is altered by the virus. The virus, we call it V5 is NOT the same virus as HIV5. To simplify, it is transmitted through a simple infection. This infection is gained either through birth or infection from one who has the virus and passes it on. The child inherits the infection, passed on from the mother or father. The parent may have picked up the virus from some other member of their family such as a cousin, aunt, brother, etc., and thus the infection is passed on to the newborn child. Rarely are both parents infected, i.e., vampires themselves. More often, they are carriers of the virus, in a similar manner to the way a red haired child is born to a family who, for several generations, have been all blond. The passing of the virus to the child from the parent produces an Inheritor Vampire child. The V5 is passed on to the newborn much the same way the AIDS virus is passed from mother to child. In such a child, the virus remains dormant until the catalyst of the onset of puberty. The release of hormones is believed to activate the virus system. The effects of the V5 virus then takes a number of years as the child develops to be completely effective, i.e., active in the system from its previously dormant state in the child's body. As in any infection, the child's immune system tries to fight off the infection, and in many cases, if not most, it succeeds. It is also believed that the blood chemical make up of the individual is also responsible in determining if the child will be fully affected by the virus and thus DNA altered. Not all infected people develop the vampire virus, V5, and thus not everyone born with it becomes a vampire. That is why we are not hip deep in real Inheritor vampires. The only other way to become a vampire is to be given the infection by someone already infected. This would make the person, the subject, a Classical. As with Inheritors, it takes Classicals quite a long time to develop the full blown virus once infected due to the same reasons; blood chemistry make up and the immune system. Also, not everyone who is exposed to the virus by a Classical will be a viable host for the virus. There is also a theory that a person has to be genetically predisposed to V5.
That didn't answer my question, though very well written.
That makes a lot of sence, the imune system can fight off the virus? Is there a certain attribute to the body that makes a person more prone to developing the V5 virus if they come into contact with it?
Though it made a lot of sense it didn't even remotely touch on the topic if a vampire had gotten a simple DNA blood test, to determine their blood type what would the machine read?
Yes, DNA testing would... for true "vampires," as historically depicted in the original accounts and not as the "undead" "bloodsuckers" of medieval, superstition-born, clergy-perpetuated fiction.
However, those testing the DNA would have to know what to look for. And thankfully, this has not yet been discovered... but for better or worse, they are unwittingly getting closer. In last month's issue of the "American Journal of Human Genetics" (AJHC, Vol. 82, Issue 2), famed geneticist Manfred Kayser, et al, published the truly astounding article that finally reveals the true cause of blue eyes as originating from a sudden influx into the genetic code of a previously unknown HERC2 mutation that occurred between only 6,000 - 10,000 years ago (the end of the last Ice Age). This strange and sudden mutation that initiated the appearance of blue eyes for the first time in the 100,000s of years of Human history occurred in one specific geographic area: on the northwestern shores of the Black Sea... the precise location of the fabled Eastern European homeland of the original Slavic Vampire -- Transylvania.
Why is this so significant? Only those in the "know" will understand ("He Who Has Ears to Hear, Let Him Hear").
- Upir'
Good point, the virus effects the cells of the body and alters certain aspects; so technically it would have to alter the DNA patterns in some manner for the changes to the body to take place. Due to the fact the makeup of all parts of the body are determined by the map encoded in our DNA. The chnages even if minute to the DNA should show in a test, but would anyone even make note of the changes or woudl they be drastic enought to detect?
I think it would be a confusing dna...as since the vampire "most of the time" drinks other's blood, making the mixt of dna hapening, creating a new set of chromosone each time. Making it a bit confusing to trace down 1 vampire.
Vampires weren't first created/ evolved in Europe, they date back to the earliest of religious icon specifically to ancient Mesopotamia.
Simple DNA Blood Test!! Not for chromosomes, or any of that stuff, like A positive, A B positive, O negative... That sort of stuff
The Sumerians and their amazing civilization occurred approximately 3,000 - 6,000 years AFTER the Black Sea mutation. And, btw, the Sumerian gods (the Anunnake) have been found depicted in their statues of same as having... blue eyes.
Thus, this blue-eyed progeny were among (at the least) Sumer's first gods, the legendary "Anunnake" (known thousands of years later to the Semites as the "Fallen Angels").
Upir though I appreciate your comments, lets stay on the topic of Vampires, instead forcing the dominars to RIA it. Please!!
As the O-type is the most ancient of all Human blood types, it would have to be included in that blood type. However, such a simple blood-type testing would not be specific enough to identify the "vampire" race... as you must understand given that there are less than a half-dozen blood types among all the world's billions of people. Obviously, to truly identify anything as rare as a historical "vampire," you are going to need true DNA testing... not just a blood test.
So in looking for a mutation in the DNA patterns such as a resessive pattern hidden away, may lead tot he discovery of the vampyre origin?
In my opinion if there were such a test I believe that it would probably show a rare genetic mutation of some sort.
For the rest of the article MM posted,go to
http://www.geocities.com/vampiricstudies/medical.html
Very informative.
I agree. It would have to be some sort of mutation in the blood. A genetical thing of sorts.
Well, it doesn't have to be a mutation? It could be a separate species all together like the X-Men.
Anyways, I don't believe in this site http://www.geocities.com/vampiricstudies/medical.html whole heartedly, there are several assumptions made, which could be easily be wrong as well as right, for example if a vampires do not reproduce, then this whole theory is gone.
a specific gene, only attach to the gene pool, of the elit sort of? even so, in order to fnd it, would be..humainly impossible, it took over 20 years just to analize 1 set of fullg enes of 1 individual and that was wilth help of pc and all. and more then 1 scientis
well imagin testing millions o humans (some real vampires most wannabees) to find who is and who is not and what is the recurent gene...will prettymuch take forever..I mean unless you want it like in ultraviolet...the movie...then okay.
Perhaps there is a possibility they "absorb some of the donors DNA with each feeding.
Well, technology is improving very fast, as is the ability to detect genetic anomalies within blood.
Maybe they splice genes into their own dna, but you can't just simply add a chromosome, to a being. That would form many complications.
Leaving room for mutations ...Ie Could Cancer effect a vampire?
I don't think so... I think so disease may affect vampire's some day, or they may evolve from what they are (blood sucking "things" who don't have a soul).
Are you referring to I AM LEGEND?
They started typing blood in 1901 which was discovered by Karl Landsteiner
Blood Types
Would DNA testing show-up some genetic variance? Yes.
As for the V5 virus, there is NO actual science behind it they only real V5 virus is a computer virus.
Just a thought for whats its worth.
Now depending on how much time, money and what the vampire wants to know or reveal about himself they would use DNA is for genetics to put it simply. it can be used to trace back the lineage to ancestors or whatever the specific answers are warranted. This can actually be very dangerous territory.
I think that Vampires would be able to hide their DNA to the prying eye. After all they don't really want to reveal they exist...right??
perhaps an answer could come from studing what is preserved and what in not preserve in the DNA structure if the Viris/bacteria is symbiotic excreting what they(the organism) extract from blood.Perhaps sharing the remaining conciousness of the host or vampire.
Perhaps there would be a binding agent of some sort.It would be a possible experiment to perform on a vampire if one is ever located...to put nano technology into ones body along with blood.something still sparks in a vampire so to find the source of the "charge(my notional thought is from the blood of a victim charges the virus.)so I would look for the binding agent that preserves vampires.
WITH ALL THE CSI THAT I WATCH I WOULD THINK THAT THE DNA TEST WOULD REVEAL SOMETHING FOR SURE. AND I AM ALSO SURE THE FBI WOULD HAVE NO CLUE WHAT THAT SOMETHING IS.
(/caps)
ANYWAY!
I believe yes. In the DNA, for exapmle, there must be something written in order for the vampire to have greater developed fangs, (if we are comparing this to a normal Human), and also, there must be something, changed or mutated, to give the Vampire a need to feed on blood.
Now, if you believe in a spiritual vampire (i.e. vampires that are like Gods or something) thank I don't think anyone would have a clue to that.
And for Psy- Vamps If that were the type of vampire you’d be inquiring about, then I think that that’s more of a brain thing. You know what I mean?
***Disclaimer: The opinions and beliefs expressed in this post my be in no way right or wrong in any jurisdiction. If there are any oppositions disguss it here. ***
seriously what would they look for most scientists dont believe in vampires
Perhaps the DNA would be amorpic between dead tissues and blank DNA
It would depend on how vampires process or digest blood. If it's anything similar to humans digesting food, then it's possible that it remains in the system for a long time. Look at how drugs show up in a drug test for a while after they're ingested/used. It's possible that a blood test would show characteristics of all the blood types the vampire ingested.
as a writer myself I find the notional information to be a ripe resource.So yea the make believe has a purpose for me well two actually the other is role play.But if a forum about vampires lore is really not your thing then write a book about the collective intrest of those who flock to a sight dedicated to that very lore.Even allowing for the goth members who may or may not believe the lore of vampires.If anything I appreciate the metaphor of vampires.
Boneyard... I can see your point but with DNA... that can be extracted not only from just blood, from bones, tissue, hair, etc where blood is not present. Here in TX where they have found 10's of thousand year old bones of undocumented species they are doing DNA testing and discovered a cousin to a dinasour.
Vampires have blood in their veins and blood is made of cells which cells have DNA in them
true, but if they are feeding from differant donors they have differant types of dna running through their veins... I think thats what the original question that Rosho was trying to get at in this thread ... how would the test result come out with all the genetics mixed up
So the likely hood that they absorb something other then blood is raised by the same question.How does vital juice jolt the kindred.
I have a feeling that the blood type of a vampire would show up differently, with each person it drank from, this having nothing to do with chromosomes,would probably mutate the DNA causing it to come up as any number of things which I can't say more for I don't know.
vamps are living beings so yes that have dna i do not know if it would be comparable to human dna or not
If polish's remarks were what you were getting at, rosho, then both of you need a far better understanding of biologic reality instead of hyperfocusing on vampiric fantasy and fiction.
Vampire DNA would be no more affected by the DNA of its food than Human DNA is affected by the DNA of our food. As Humans, we eat all sorts of animals and plants, yet neither the DNA found in those animals and plants nor the blood types of the blood by-products found in our meats (or actual blood for those preferring their meat cooked rare) have anything to do at all with our own individual genetic composition or the DNA found therein. Our genes and DNA are determined solely by our ancestry... period. And so also would it be for "vampires," who even in fiction are/were Humans.
Thus, the blood types of a fictional vampire's prey (its food) would not at all affect its own DNA, nor would it affect any "DNA blood test"-ing done on it.
If vampires where to be created (written)it would be better to agree first is a vampire is living or reanimated (with conciousness minus a soul.Then perhaps the virus/bacteria is what reanimates the souless corpse and presevrves it (the body).If that was the vampire fictionally created then I would follow through in notional detail that the Dr. in that story would find DNA from both the Corpse and the Viral preservative.Blood then and how a fictional created vampire utilizes on a biological level would be good fill in a cornor meats vampire for lab test.
DNA is tested for serten genes if you dont now what your looking for then it wont show
Upir if a Vampire was human, would they test to have the same genetic structure as humans?
Current DNA tests would show things scientists already know about. I don't think anyone has found DNA strands that contribute to being a vampire yet.
If vampires were real and had a DNA test then it would show them having thier own unique DNA
Upir - hey now! ... I do understand the biology of DNA and the genetic structure of it ... because if that wasn't the case if they tested me I would be genetically a cross between a cool ranch dorito and a pizza... LOL
Lets take also look at anyone who has surgery and needs blood, their genetic makeup doesn't change either, if it did than the science of DNA wouldn't be as exact as it is.
What we consume does not alter our genes. In fact I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that as far as we know right now there is not a vampire gene that indicates a difference between humans and modern day sang or psi vampires.
In one of my novels there was this discussion of blood and the vampire wanted to cure himself because he was infected by force. So he read about this doctor that was performing blood tranfusions to cure people of infections.
The author did alot of research into this since it was based back in the 1900's ... the purpose of me writing this is because the 'virus' was mutable and living and the doctors were interested in studying it for science research
DNA is similar in so many species that it would be quite pretentious to assume vampires would have different DNA makeup. obviously I am no expert (speaking of pretentious lol)
I suppose a vampire might not show a specific blood type considering they need blood in general to sustain life. and it is a proven fact in the scientific medical world that if one consumes too much blood that is not a match to thine own then you will get sick. Even too much consumption of the blood whether matching or not makes you sick due to the iron content and your stomach not being able to break it down.
My assumption would be to determine what Upir has brought forth about "Santa's reindeer". How would scientists determine it to be "vampiric" in nature? That would be the true question...Regarding this aspect, it would be like wanting to discover why a venus fly trap sucking the life out of its victims, without having to mutate into let us say, oh...A giant human sucking plant?
With any common blood type, as type-O would be one of the if not the most rarest type in the world today, scientists would need a blood type of "vampiric" nature to assume such would be true in the rarest form.
The DNA structure I am sure would be dramatically differant, depending on the genome structure of the cells, the chromasome counts, and other useless pieces of information. That which makes up the Jacobs ladder of the DNA strand.
But, since scientists barely know what "vampiric" DNA looks like, then it would be a presumed guessing game. I am sure they would have to cross examine let us say, a vampire bat or a maquito for a close resemblance to the DNA structure itself, to that of an aenimic individual, or other similar vampiric symptoms coming from said individual.
I guess it would be a question of composes a DNA strand to become vampiric in nature? What is missing, or what has been added to the structure itself?
i really dont know what to think about that questain outside of that would be interesting to find out
Soulshroude - you are like the cherry on top of the sundea!
Well I really don't think they would find anything different.
DNA of all of that they fed from and a very advanced strain of Vampire DNA
The problem with testing for ancestry, and many other things, is that we don't know enough about vampires, in general. A few examples, psi vampires, blood eaters, other kinds (I believe there are species of vampires, and sub-subclassifications, like there are for bats or any other type of creature that has to adapt to their environment.
however rosho a psi vampire would still be a human which is the root of their exsistance and that DNA is only going to tell them where their ancestors came from. If you are trying to figure out what makes them what they are to study them it may not only come just from DNA but from other types of testing but whether they are willing to be a science project or not is another topic and what types of testing is for a scientist.
Well, that may be and it could be that a Psi Vampire comes from a genetic difference...
My point exactly Rosho, no one at this point can or will determine the DNA strands of what is called the "vampire" as it is, since none of us are so inclined to become guinea pigs for scientific studies. I for one, know when at birth and for about 5 years after that, the hospital I was at, would not let me out. Even my parents were argueing about my prolonged stay.
After that, about 15 years after that, I found out why the stay was so damned long...I along with several others were under a state of scientific discovery of sorts, aside from myself, I can recollect about 100 other individuals within the ward itself being studied under the same evaluation.
Finally after quite a bit of research, and arguement, I was able to confiscate my hospital records, which were immediately destressed to my immediate family.
It was not a loss of DNA structure, but what was added to it from what seemed to add up to a hereditary line.
I cannot say precisely what was amiss, I can tell you that the genetic code had been altered by blood, and not by human experimentation...As this was not possible at the time.
This is all I will say for now.
Interesting I won't get into that subject much... Maybe, SS is a vampire?? (lool)
not necessarily... when it comes to science all it takes is one thing that is not explainable or out of the ordinary or a lead to something else that will make cause for consipiracy. This is why modern medicine is as screwed up and in the hands of the government. I don't like to use western medicine practices any more because its to much of a commercial practice as the holidays so I've been using other means to treat my ailments such as acupuncture which by far exceeds in results and cost.
Ya... Well let's get away from the conspiracy theories for a minute, and back into the subject of DNA testing??
I can tell you this both Rosho and Siren...Since I was born, I have not been vaccinated, nor have had any ailments, or problems with health...Issues or otherwise, colds, nor sickness. The only thing I can tell about wierd out the the way pains, are those damned migraines I get when I am in the sun for waay to long. I always have to say under the shade. No this is not an excuse, but a medical reality.
Perhaps, the histories of the vampire have come from debunked medical realities of the past, that have been miscude over time, that it manipulated society into carrying on a mythos concerning hollywood stereotypes...Just to confuse society as to the symptoms of natural vampirism? Think on it.
If I could scan the documents to give proper DNA results I would, but unfortunatly they are not in my presence, they are in another state, along with a mass of other family chronicles. My apologies if this disappoints the audiance, but it is what it is.
I found some info links back from my school stuff maybe this will help.
How DNA Testing Works PCR/STR
Fragments of human DNA are unique to the individual. These fragments are called polymorphic because they vary in shape from person to person. DNA profiling is the process of separating an individual's unique, polymorphic, fragments from the common ones.
With the use of PCR in forensics, law enforcement are revisiting older, unsolved cases. PCR can start with the tiniest DNA sample and rapidly create identical copies until investigators have enough DNA to compare in tests.
"PCR acts as a chemical photocopier. This often works even with degraded DNA," said Dr. Beverly Himick, a forensic scientist at the Washington State Patrol Crime Lab.
PCR breaks apart the double stranded DNA helix and exposes the 2 single strands to enzymes known as "polymerases" and the 4 basic building blocks of DNA, nucleotides known as A, C, T and G.
The polymerases use the nucleotides to rebuild each single strand back into a complete double helix. Where there was just 1 complete strand of DNA, with PCR you get 2, then 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128. Polymerase chain reaction is a process catalyzed by an enzyme, polymerase replicating DNA from templates or strands to create a larger pool for extensive testing and characterization.
Now a refined version of PCR, known as "short, tandem repeats" or STR-PCR, is available for cases such as cold felony cases. STR has used skin cells from a doorknob. No two individuals have the same STR patterns.
STR, Short Tandem Repeats are nucleotides along the backbone of a chromosome used as markers.
STR heats a piece of DNA until it separates into the 2 strands of its characteristic double helix, then is incubated with man made DNA matching the genetic code of each strand. This creates 2 new pieces of DNA from the original one. The process is repeated until there are enough copies for capillary electrophoresis, which produces a chart mapping a person's exact genetic makeup. This is the information used to compare suspects to crime.
How DNA works
I once heard that Blood Vampires don't have fingerprints as a result of something in their DNA.
Not sure about the fingerprint thing, as I have both never tested myself for fingerprints, nor have I ever been arrested for anything warrented by law of either city, state or federal law.
I technically wear gloves all the time to avoid any fingerprint scans because some of mine were ripped off.
That must have hurt...I think I know somewhat of how you feel, about the fingerprinting...A rare analogy though I am not sure if it is understandable...
But I have a lack of emotions toward life as I know it, but what I feel are the emotions of others around me. The wife always considers me a sort of monotone in a way, both emotionally and word wise.
But when I do show the emotion, it is usually reflected by either her, or others surrounding me at the time. I wonder if this happens to others, or if it is just my emotions just too bottled up to realize.
Your fingerprints are a formation of your skin not a genetic composition
History of Fingerprints
I think Siren, what Rosho was getting at...Is the immortality issue, which in turn involveds DNA.
Since the vampire does have the immortality rate, or prolonged life AKA, longevity, this would be presumed as the fingerprint would be somewhat null and void, since there would be a scarce time structure or a faded one at least to the quality of skin care.
I must say this posting got some very interesting thoughts going and I'd like to thank everyone for teaching me something new. (This V5 virus thing is wonderful)
I have to ask - Why wouldn't the vampire just show whatever blood type they actually have?
however when you have people/vampires who live a long life of immortality they would care for their skin to not wear out their fingerprints or leave them everywhere to be found or caught hense the term 'vain' comes to mind. Which is why they would not subject themselves to DNA testing, science probing or goverment confinement.
As I have stated earlier Daemona, Guinea pigs is all the goverment considers as society deems fit to study things for a better grip on their reality. Some things should just not be allowed until a bit of open mindedness begets the world as a whole.
Science will see it with an open mind and facinating however the government will see it as a threat ... that has been the constant tug-o-war for many years and hollywood makes millions depicting that struggle
Well Demoena, it's many of the same situations in movies, as well as in books, as well as in everything to do with life.
Persecution, and being killed... X-men was all about this. Being different meant you had to die or be quarantined off from the general public, and that sort of thing... It sucks, though why can't people treat us normally.
Simply put - people fear what they don't know Rosho. I understand the persecution from more than one aspect - my relatives who suffered at the hands of the Inquistion, those burned for being witches and for my family members who came to USA to escape Hitler.
Ya... That sucks, sry about that... Anyways, technically Hilter didn't fear what he didn't know. He just want a super race, and practiced genocide.
Anyways, what about testing for a werewolf? Would that reveal any mysteries?
I believe that they would show a common blood type and perhaps something genetically different since some believe its all in the blood that "transforms" a human to a vampire.
they could find this
Porphyria refers to a growing collection of disorders in which there are abnormalities in the enzymes involved in heme production. Heme is an iron-containing compound used throughout the body. The most common heme-containing substance found in our bodies is the hemoglobin in our red blood cells - an essential component to transport oxygen around our bodies. There are at least eight steps in the production of heme, and at least eight different types of porphyria can result when an enzyme malfunctions and levels of intermediate substances rise to beyond what the body is accustomed to. It is a condition that runs in families and is inherited. At one time, it was thought to be a dominant trait requiring only one gene from one parent, but there are recessive forms now identified in which genes need to come from both parents.
Porphyria is very difficult to diagnose. Its symptoms mimic those of a hundred other conditions. Traditional testing rarely shows a problem, and patients who develop recurrent acute attacks often require strong narcotics to control the abdominal pain. They often undergo surgery for appendicitis or ovarian conditions without positive findings, and then run the risk of being labeled with a narcotic addiction. There are no easy tests available to diagnose the various porphyria conditions. The best time to attempt diagnosis is when the symptoms are active. Special urine tests looking for PBG (porphobilinogen) and ALA (delta-aminolevulinic acid) can provide a starting clue. More intricate testing then follows in an attempt to make a precise diagnosis.
Porphyria sufferers are affected by anything that can alter the functioning of the deficient enzymes. This can occur to different degrees. Some people are affected so slightly that the diagnosis is never considered. Herbs, drugs, alcohol and even hormones can produce acute attacks by interfering with enzyme function. Sufferers are counseled as to which medications to avoid. Maintaining a hardy diet low in carbohydrates is essential. The best news of all is that if the diagnosis is considered, then infusing heme molecules produced in the laboratory can treat acute attacks. After all, heme is what the body is ultimately craving for when an attack occurs.
if they could find a werewolf...good luck. But they would definatly find a mutation in the blood (obviously since a werewolf is in my eyes somewhat of amutation)
I thought you might find this bit interesting.
OUR UNLIKELY NEXT OF KIN
The colugo,(looks like a bat*grins*) a foot-long nocturnal glider from Southeast Asia, is the closest living relative of primates. Researchers from Texas A&M University and elsewhere compared genes from colugos, tree shrews and 30 other mammals with genes from primates such as macaques and humans. They found rare genetic changes suggesting that colugos' and primates' evolutionary paths diverged about 86 million years ago, during the reign of the dinosaurs.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/wild-things-200801.html
Well,depending on what one's idea of a vampire is,I would say that there would be some findings in the UROD,ALAD,CPOX.FECH,PPOX,HMBS and UROS genes.Mutations of somekind ..possibly along with some variations in the HFE gene.
I feel this will explain why better than I can...
http://books.mcgraw-hill.com/getommbid.php?isbn=0071459960&template=ommbid&c=124
Depending on your particular vampire movie, TV show or book, some of the authors have their scientists/doctors finding something in the blood of the bitten person - like a virus. Others have taken the blood of a vampire and found 'anomalies' in their blood...
Fiction is a great thing - anything can be found and seen!
Agreed with that statement completely... Summarizes my view on life...