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Daileus
Daileus

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03:10:47 Sep 26 2008
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This hasen't been posted in a few months. Some say orbs are "lost spirits." If you take pictures in a dark cemetery you can see beams of light on the photos and many people including paranormal investigators believe them to be a form of ghost. So do you think they are lost spirits? Demons perhaps? Or just a glitch in a camera lense? What do you know about orbs? Where do they come from? What are they doing? What do you think they are? Anything on orbs is perfectly welcome here.

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PLEASE NO ONE WORD OR ONE LINE POST. THANKS



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dabbler
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03:38:20 Sep 26 2008
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I would go with the fact that since people seldomly have two or more cameras, taking a picture of an area, that orbs are actually water drops on the camera lenses, or other glitches. Plan and simple, if they are what people claim them to be then two cameras trained on the same area should capture the same "orb". Now they have a person that claims to catch them live on video, turns out his partner is a Glicker ( a person skilled in the squirting of spit, or liquid from between the lip, and gums.)

I am struck be how many people gobble up the whole Orb thing, as well as all the people that got excited about the so called Rods (which turned out to be an effect of the camera. any so called investigator should really test the two or more camera project.

A poll on like : Do you believe orbs are real souls captured in photos, or Glitches on a camera would be interesting.



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Daileus
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03:49:11 Sep 26 2008
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Well Dabbler you know I like you and i think you are very intelligent. But I myself believe in the supernatural :P Orbs are supposedly fast moving spirits, so unless both cameras snap at the exact moment, i dont think it would catch it.



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SireZombie
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04:29:50 Sep 26 2008
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well I myself have not ever seen any orbs .Yet some do say that they are spirits leading you to a certain place when your in a cemetery or on Holy ground how true I do not know yet I feel there are alot of unexplained things in the world.



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Daileus
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05:06:53 Sep 26 2008
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I should have posted what they are. From Wikipedia


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The term orb describes unexpected, typically circular artifacts in photographs. Sometimes the artifact leaves a trail, indicating motion.

The technical photographic term for the occurrence of orbs, especially pronounced in modern ultra-compact cameras, is backscatter, orb backscatter or near-camera reflection.


Causation
Due to the size limitations of the modern compact and ultra-compact cameras, especially digital cameras, the distance between the lens and the built-in flash has decreased, thereby decreasing the angle of light reflection to the lens and increasing the liklihood of light reflection off normally sub-visible particles. Hence, the orb artifact is commonplace with small digital or film camera photographs.

The orb artifact can result from reflection of light off solid particles (e.g., dust, pollen), liquid particles (water droplets - especially rain) or other foreign material within the camera lens.

The image artifacts usually appear as either white or semi-transparent circles, though may also occur with whole or partial color spectrums, purple fringing or other chromatic aberration. With rain droplets, an image may capture light passing through the droplet creating a small rainbow effect.

Underwater photographers notice the effect also, which occurs for the same reason as above-water photographic artifacts. Sand, small sea life or other particles close to the lens, invisible to the diver, reflect light from the flash causing the orb artifact in the image. A strobe flash, which distances the flash from the lens, eliminates the artifacts.


[edit] Paranormal interpretation
Orb backscatter has been broadly interpreted as a highly variable range of paranormal phenomenon without verifiable causation — including as otherwise invisible spirits, auras, angels, ghosts, energy fields, psychoenergetic artifacts, energy balls.


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Daileus
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05:08:08 Sep 26 2008
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Also go to www.theorbxone.com that gives a some useful info on orbs. The funny thing is that there is no proof of what orbs really are. So sayeth that site.



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Redeemer1988
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05:12:47 Sep 26 2008
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I think there might be some credibility to orbs, however, most of the time there's probably a rational explanation for why the phenomena non occurred. For example, being at a graveyard. The orb could just the a reflection of the camera's flash off an insect, and it might appear as an orb if the camera is out of focus.

Video is different. I've seen some pretty neat videos with orbs in them. Defiantly not bugs xD



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Daileus
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05:13:48 Sep 26 2008
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This is really good too! Check this out!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



What are Ghosts & Orbs?



The below statement is evidence based on the knowledge that is presently known concerning these things. Yes, ghosts are real and they do share space with us in this life although in a different realm of existence. Orbs are also believed to be ghosts of people as well as other life forms.

Orbs are believed (by many) to be ghosts in the form of balls of light. They are life forms that travel in groups and are believed to be the human soul or life force of those that once inhabited a physical body here on earth. Psychics claim to talk to them on a regular basis, and ghost hunters encounter them quite frequently. It is said that they are those spirits that have willingly stayed behind because they feel bound to their previous life or previous location for whatever reason. Because of this obsession they tend to become similar to a psychotic human beings. It should be said that the majority of us when we die proceed gladly and willingly to the next level of existence after saying our quiet good-byes, which means we're off to the spirit world. Then again, as stated, a select few elect to stay behind because of a refusal to move on. Apparently the longer they stay behind, the harder it is to find their way to the next level, which again, is the spirit world.

Ghostly orbs are the most photographed anomalies caught on film by ghost hunters and are quite photogenic (when they want to be). They can be completely transparent or display themselves in a bright solid form. It is not hard to capture them on film in their circular form. It is theorized that ghosts prefer the form of an Orb (ball of light) because it takes less energy thus being the mode of choice among the ghosts. The consensus is that small orbs take up the least amount of energy and apparitions and other fuller shapes take up the most. In the colder parts of the year, it seems that ghosts tend to find it easier to take on shapes other than orbs. That's when there is the most static electricity in the atmosphere. Those months being October through February. It is also believed that they are able to draw on our own energy when needed. I've listed these ways but there are obviously many ways for ghosts to draw energy from the atmosphere and environment but I won't take the time for that here.

If you're wondering, ghosts are normally harmless for the most part and have relatively no desire to bring harm to anyone nor do they have much of an awareness to act as such. Ghosts however, have been known to disrupt the lives of those that they effect and play pranks and move things about. To state it plainly, they are actually limited in the activities that they are able to carry out in their frame of existence. Non-human forms as well as evil spirits and demons, who have never had a body, have additional powers and have the ability to sway our thoughts and tempt our reasoning. This is why Ouija boards and other similar devices should be shunned! They have the ability to open windows into other realms of existence and can attract evil or bad spirits. If you are experiencing what you consider to be the effects of an evil spirit or demon in your life then it could be the location where you are living, but you must also consider your life style as well. In other words, how you are living or the activities that you involve yourself in that might inadvertently be drawing them to you.

I might also mention a word or two about spirits in this forum. First of all, as I have alluded to earlier, ghosts and spirits are not quite the same. Spirits are capable of continuing a full existence on the other side with their full mental and emotional facilities intact, unlike their counterpart the ghost. You will most likely not encounter a spirit on a ghost hunt as you would a ghost. When they are detected, it is believed that their appearance might be in the form of ectoplasm mist, as well as a full bodied apparitions. They are permitted to visit on occasion and even communicate a message when they have permission to do so but for the most not they will not be picked up on any ghost detection devices or be photographed by any cameras (for the most part). Many believe that we have spirits assigned to watch over us, and that might very well be true but you won't normally be detecting them unless they have a special purpose in making there presence known. In other words Spirits (not ghosts) seem to have a finer spirit tissue that is for the most part undetectable.

There are other theories concerning ORBS. I have in the past heard such theories that orbs might simply be Nature spirits or Airborne protoplasm as you would find under a microscope, except far more advanced.

Other types of ghostly phenomenon are the vortex (funnel shaped appearance) and Ectoplasm (it has a mist or foggy appearance) also called Ecto Mist. These are often picked up on film and video as well but are much more rare. I'm not making any determinations to their origin but welcome any of your opinions on the subject.

__ J. Eaton

The opinions stated above are my own but have come through intense study, spiritual experiences, collaboration with other investigators and through many on sight investigations.

A word of counsel concerning orb photography:
Orbs can be produced by accident, and can appear quite readily on film by the elements and conditions around you. Most orb photographs are merely the result of dust or even weather conditions such as rain and humidity. Moisture, dust and airborne particles up close to the lens at the time of the flash can and will effect the results of your pictures. Always make a note of the conditions around you when doing ghost photography.

Written August. 22, 1999


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


TAKEN FROM:

http://ghoststudy.com/a_what_are_orbs.html


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Daileus
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05:22:58 Sep 26 2008
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Here is a pic of orbs. Many believe that these are indeed spirits captured byt a photo.




Image and video hosting by TinyPic


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MysticalChild
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10:54:15 Sep 26 2008
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i'm extremely skeptical of orbs and fuzzy lights in photos
as a photographer i've experienced blurry lens flares and annoying orbs on photographs even when the lenses appear spotless
i'm positive these were nothing more than lighting angles, dust, shadows, damp air, and in some cases even a few insects... the lower quality the film or lower the pixel count also makes a huge difference in what you think you are seeing as well

now i'm not saying that capturing a spirit on film isn't possible, because there have been photographs and videos where i've wondered myself and couldn't explain away
but still i remain extremely skeptical, which is my nature

i like the two camera idea... two cameras at different angles capturing the same thing would put a lot of doubts of mine to rest
i love looking at images of orbs though
so much fun to speculate :)



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Wolvie
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11:03:46 Sep 26 2008
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These days it's hard to believe anything in a photo. I'm not however saying that they don't exist, I haven't seen enough evidence either way. The ones in the last post look to me like water spots on the lens. One simple thing to do with one camera is take several pictures at different angles and if they consistently show up in the same place on the pictures proportionately then it's something on the lens or a defect in the camera. By that I mean if there is always one in say the upper left hand corner it's something on the lens. If it's from dust particles though this may not be conclusive since they can easily move. Some dust particles can be highly reflective and if they are close to the lens when the flash goes off could make what appears to be an orb of light. Many cemeteries have gravel roads and most use white gravel. White gravel tends to be high in crystal content and a speck of dust from that could easily be a small piece of crystal that would be just such a highly reflective piece of dust. Certain fabric fibers can also be highly reflective. Now if you drive out to a cemetery and get out of your car both of these are stirred up into the air. Because of close proximity to the lens they can seem much larger than they are. Shine a flash light through floating gravel dust at night and you will see it sparkle from the reflected light. As for getting to cameras to take a picture at the same time this can be accomplished by connecting them both to 1 remote switch or a laptop. Multiple video cameras from multiple angles would also be good. Using multiple cameras of different types would be good too. If one could be captured on film, digital, thermal, and night or low light vision all at the same time that would go a long way to prove it more than a speck of dust or drop of water. Even then the pictures would have to be studied very closely to make sure they were not edited.



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mysticwinds
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14:01:56 Sep 26 2008
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I have seen orbs on pictures on a dark cemetary and I always go to the Kodak company and send them in. many times they say yes it is not the film. I always use a clear camera lens and no I do not go when it is raining.

I make sure my camera is clean as well as the case. A friend of mine has a picture of a orb that resembles a person right behind them.

Of course with a disposal camera you take much more of a chance the orbs are nothing but light has gotten into the camera some way.



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RootedinEvil
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14:19:45 Sep 26 2008
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I think that more times not it is dust on a lens, or whatever that is. Because if it isn't, all I take pictures of are spirits, and something tells me that is not the case ;)



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VanillaBear
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14:57:21 Sep 26 2008
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I've taken pictures in different haunted or suspented haunted place and graveyards. I've picked up orbs or what I believe to be orbs. Then I've also picked up light refraction with fog, bugs, and dust that all look orbish. I believe they are the sprits or the passed. I dont see why it couldn't be demons, but I'm not sure on that. I also believe everyone has energy instead them (the soul). If it doesn't go to whatever you believe to be the after world it can be focused and so up as orbs. That just my opinion.



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XxSkyexX
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15:38:01 Sep 26 2008
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well I have seen *orbs* as it is called in photos yet who is to say it is not spots on a lens or the film. alot of people say they have actually seen them floating around myself I would find that interesting to see, maybe some day. Yet with this day and age with all the technology it is hard to tell if it is real or someone fixing the picture. yet, I do believe there are alot of things out there that are unexplained so who knows really.



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onenadonlyraven
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16:26:12 Sep 26 2008
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Orbs in photos and lights on videos along with people talking on tapes with no one else in the room in my opintion are indeed spirts that have not past on. Most of then can not let go to this world either because they can not leave there home, died in a sad way, or simpily just can't.



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Daileus
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17:18:30 Sep 26 2008
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Thank you for all the post!!!


I think in most cases it is dust or the camera. But in some cases....I have seen people take photo's in their homes and this appears on the film, where there is no dust. And then the pics turn out fine afterwords. A case like that, I think quite possibly it is spirits ofsome sort. You never know right?



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Calea
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18:18:39 Sep 26 2008
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I'm a devout believer in the supernatural, but I don't think orbs are anything more than reflected/refracted light. I do some photography on the side and there are many different effects light can have on a camera. I don't think this is anything more than one of those effects.



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archonsyn
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20:09:56 Sep 26 2008
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From photos that I have taken when looking for ghosts, most orbs can be explained, dust or moisture, but some I have no idea what the are



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dabbler
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21:39:49 Sep 26 2008
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From the skeptics dictionary.
orb

orb photo by R. Carroll - reflected flash on a rainy nightAn orb is an alleged ghost, spirit energy, or multi-dimensional being invisible to the naked eye but visible as a ball of light on film. Though some people believe orbs are life-forms, they are most likely due to reflections caused by flash or other naturalistic light sources caught on film. One orb enthusiast claims that "the orb is the basic energy pattern of the spirit world," though how he knows this is unclear. Another thinks "the orb is the energy being transferred from a source (i.e. powerlines, heat energy, batteries, people, etc.) to the spirit so they can manifest." This explains why they are round, he says, because that is what one would expect from the laws of physics. He fails to mention which laws he has in mind, however.

See also rod and psychic photography.

Again I say Two cameras same spot with a duel trigger.. Orbs are too fast? .. ? Please provide a link for that revelation.



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dabbler
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21:43:54 Sep 26 2008
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I've decided that it is time to launch another of my Super Happy Great Fun Yeah intermittent series. The topic is one I've been thinking about for a while: it seems like paranormalists are really reaching for some of the "phenomena" they talk about these days. For the purposes of these posts, I'm using "paranormalists" to refer specifically to those that look (and believe in) ghosts, aliens, and strange creatures, and not to folks that push psychic powers and such. Unless, of course, I find a good example of the psi-crowd reaching for ideas, which I haven't yet.

What do I mean by "reaching?" What I mean is that the proposed phenomena in a certain field of woo was far more impressive in years gone by, and these day the paranormalists seem to be just grasping at straws, pointing to any old ridiculous thing and claiming it to be a supernatural mystery. I believe this to be at least partially a product of years of debunking by the likes of Randi, CSICOP (now just CSI), and Michael Shermer's Skeptics Society. It also probably has something to do with generally increased scientific literacy: fewer people buy your nonsense, you have less popular support, and so you get desperate. Shows like "Ghost Hunters" and "Most Haunted" certainly feed into the still-sizeable chunk of people who don't know a thing about science, but by and large the public knows far more about it than they did 50 or 100 years ago.

Anyway, on to the meat and potatoes of the post. In the spirit of Action Skeptics Storytime and Christian Answers, I bring you today's proof that Paranormalists Are Runnning Out of Ideas, this one from the realm of spirit photography: orbs.

To your right are some orbs. For those of you that might not know, ghost hunting types claim that those little spots on the photo are somehow supernatural in nature. One of the interviewees on the "Ghost Hunters" episode of Penn and Teller: Bullshit! claimed orbs to be "The basic energy pattern of the spirit world," whatever that means.

It is trivially obvious to the skeptic that these shiny dots are hardly mysterious. Floating in the air are any number of things that catch the light and reflect it into a camera lens, from dust motes to precipitation to small insects. This one looks to me like a perfect example of the paranormal phenomenon known as "rain." There's also lens flare to take into account. These photographic artifacts are not in any way mysterious. They can be readily explained by anybody who doesn't jump to credulous, preconceived conclusions, who isn't looking so damn hard for proof of the nonexistent.

Paranormalists, however, do just that. Oddly enough, different ghost hunters will tell you different things. Some will say that orbs are sentient while some hold that they are just "manifestations." Some will say they are ghosts in their own right; some will claim a combination. Some, of course, think that orbs are bullshit. They're not "real ghosts."

An interesting compromise comes from the twin dipshits that star in Sci-Fi's awful Ghost Hunters. They try to judge between "real" orbs and "fake" orbs. They make a distinction between orbs that really are paranormal in nature and those that are simple photographic artifacts. How they make this distinction is not entirely clear; they go through a process of judgement that involves subjective opinion and memory. It's essentially self-important bullshit guesswork.

Orbs qualify as reaching because they are such obvious transparent bullshit. Who in their right mind would look at these things and not assume they were just artifacts? Who would decide that these random bits of light reflection and lens flare were supernatural manifestations? Someone who is really reaching for pictures of ghosts. Somebody who really wants ghosts to exist, but just can't seem to capture anything on film that even comes close to the pictures of his forebears.

Pictures like this one:


That's one of the most famous ghost photographs in all of woodom: The Brown Lady of Raynham hall. The story goes that the ghost had been sighted in the house for years, first in the mid-19th century. The ghost was described as a woman in a brown dress, her face reminiscent of the portraits of Dorothy Wadpole, a former resident of Raynham Hall, but for her empty eye sockets. In 1936, a couple of photographers set up shop in the Hall hoping to get a shot of the ghost. This is what turned up. Though unimpressive given the previous descriptions of the ghost (it is, after all, just a woman-shaped glow) and quite easily faked with a simple double exposure, it is certainly far more impressive than any orb anywhere ever. Or what about the famous "Tulip Staircase Ghost?"


The fake-looking ghostie in that picture is still far better than an orb. The thing isn't even ascending the staircase, like the paranormalists always say. It's standing behind the damn thing, stretching out for some reason. This could potentially be a double exposure, though I tend to think it was simply a later addition to the negative; it looks suspiciously like it was painted and not photographed. And let's not forget the famous church ghost, one of the most transparent pieces of double exposure I've ever seen:


What the hell is that? Awful, that's what it is. The hoaxer even covered the face of his accomplice, probably to make sure nobody recognized him. But it's still far more ghost-like, more interesting, more evocative than a little white dot.

Thing is, humanoid shots like these haven't really shown for a long, long time. They were the result of a former era where people didn't as a general rule spend their lives hunting spirits. It was a time before multiple networks aired nightly romps through dark places, before hundreds of self-declared "parapsychologists" ran rampant around the country looking for the tiniest evidence of a haunting.

The psychic photography page of the Skeptic's Dictionary gives a short summary of the history of spirit photography. I find this significant:

The first psychic or spirit photographs appeared almost immediately after the first photographs. "As early as 1856, prints of ghostly looking ethereal figures sitting next to the person being photographed were being sold as joke novelties" (Williams 2000: 205). In 1862, William Mumler made a good living in Boston using double exposure to produce photographs with alleged spirits of dead people in them (Williams: 326). Many have followed in Mumler's footsteps.

Spirit photography began as a joke. People bought the openly hoaxed photographs as novelties. Hoaxing of this type is easy as hell, and the worse the quality your camera, the easier it is to make it all blend together. Eventually, some people began to take it seriously, and folks began faking pictures and claiming they were real. Back in the day, those that gave a damn about photographing "spirits" were entirely willing to hoax their little hearts out.

Nowadays, we've filled the airwaves with folks who honestly believe, through and through, that ghosts exist, and who want so very badly to capture them on film. Unlike the spirit photographers of yesteryear, this new generation of ghost hunters is painfully honest. They're not going to hoax the photographs because they believe that the ghosts will naturally show up in them. They go around using high-quality cameras and not deliberately faking their shots and, expectedly enough, they get precisely dick.

Think about it: We went from full-torsoed vaporous apparitions (to quote Dr. Ray Stanz) back in the day, to the "smoke ghosts" of the 70s, 80s, and part of the 90s (when people first started actively hunting ghosts), to the orbs of today. As the believability of ghost photos has decreased, the quality of camera has increased and so has the honesty of the ghost hunter. Modern ghost hunters don't get the good stuff because they aren't creating hoaxed pictures, and they don't get the smokes and vapors because their cameras are expensive and digital. They're left only with their sad, pathetic little orbs.

Hell, even if they were inclined to hoax the public, the ubiquity of Photoshop and like programs means that almost nobody would buy it. Sure, it looks better than the double-exposed church ghost, but everybody knows what they can do with computers these days.

During the days of the Brown Lady, people believed pictures like that because they didn't know anything about science. These days, people who still don't know anything about science (or basic reasoning, for that matter) are looking to take more pictures like that. Their honest belief in the veracity of the old photos means that they won't find anything remotely interesting, so they point to some normal photographic artifacts and make up a goofy story about supernatural origin while anyone with half a brain laughs in their faces. They're grasping at straws; it's a pathetic, desperate attempt to validate their pasttime, their life's quest, their rock-solid belief: "Look at that! Look! It's a ghost! It is! Believe me! They exist!"

The sad truth is that spirit photographers are just plain running out of ideas.

Keep your eyes peeled for more installations in this series. I've got a few more in mind, and if anyone else has any pathetic paranormalism they'd like me to tackle, just leave a note in the comments.

I do believe in spooks! I do believe in spooks! IdoIdoIdoIdo I do believe in spooks!
--The Cowardly Lion



Here's the link in case you want to see the cool pictures.

http://actionskeptics.blogspot.com/2007/06/paranormalists-are-running-out-of-ideas.html

Don't get me wrong a good ghost story needs illastrations. What's wrong with leaving it as a novelty? Why all the mystic pressure?


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evilangel723
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00:55:33 Sep 27 2008
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http://www.ghostweb.com/orb_theory.html
http://theshadowlands.net/ghost/orbs.htm
http://groups.msn.com/SpiritSpeaksSixthSenses/spiritorbs.msnw

I think that the orbs are really spirits that are lost in our world. above I listed a few sites that I found interesting. They talk about different theories. I believe that they are waiting to pass on to the "other worlds"



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TepesEnigma
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05:27:31 Sep 27 2008
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I've alwasys heard that those were dust motes that reflected the flash. I would love to hear more on this though.



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DemianA
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06:25:20 Sep 27 2008
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Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting


I don't believe that orbs are paranormal, interesting but only a technical anomaly. But my camera took this picture at a gathering of witches.


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xXxSKULLYxXx
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07:47:53 Sep 27 2008
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I dunno man ,. i think orbs are just pieces of duat shining because of the flash , because we cant see with the naked eye , so i dont think they are energy or something like that.



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SatanKimi17
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07:57:16 Sep 27 2008
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i belive they might be spirits getting caught in the camera, I mean cameras are said to have stole peoples souls, so why couldn't it capture spirits?



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Wolvie
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09:29:27 Sep 27 2008
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In most cases the human eye sees more than what a normal camera does. So if you didn't see any orbs floating around when you took the picture it's not likely that there were any there. If you are looking at an object in person that is suspended by thin wires it is likely that you will see the wires. If you take a picture though the camera may not see the wires and thus not show up in the picture and the object will seem to be flying. I will grant you that both the eye and the camera can be fooled, but usually it's easier to fool the camera. Another example watch someone through a hub cap through the air like a frisbee and you will still know it's a hub cap. Have someone take a picture of the hub cap in flight and it will look like a UFO. That has been a very common trick by UFO hoaxers in the past.



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xXxSKULLYxXx
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14:56:52 Sep 27 2008
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Thats what i ment , cant really say , just because it appears on the picture , doesnt mean its a spirit or something , so "orbs" in my opinion , were never something supernatural.



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Ravena
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15:12:29 Sep 27 2008
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it could just be a defect in the photo, like the cameras got dirt on the lens and thats what it turns out to look like or the film has that on it Idk but it would be cool if it really were spirits.



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CherryAdvocaat
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16:10:36 Sep 27 2008
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HAHA. Sorry. Orbs are, I think, no more than photographed dust. A man took four photos of orbs in our haunted vaults the other day, he was excited, but generally only film cameras are able to capture images of spirits. These orb pictures were taken on a digital camera. Unless someone can show me an interesting image of orbs, I'll only ever believe them to be dust.



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TemptingDeath
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17:22:07 Sep 27 2008
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Kitty

This is a picture I took of my cat Damie and you'll notice the glowing spot above his head. I took this with a film camera.


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Daileus
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18:08:52 Sep 27 2008
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Hey that's actually a cool picture. In most cases i say that I have to agree with most of the post. And that it's just dust, pr the camera itself perhaps. But who knows. I do believe that gohst can be caught in a picture, but I dunno about orbs being spirits or not.



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Undervampsgaze
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18:37:21 Sep 27 2008
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I took a picture in my old farm house and i Saw 5 orbs in the picture.. I do believe in orbs but i sure did feel safe in the farm house.



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Daileus
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19:07:56 Sep 27 2008
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you felt safe thinking they were spirits?



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Undervampsgaze
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20:20:26 Sep 28 2008
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No i felt safe in the house in general.. I think you all know from what i posted before that on the day i moved into the house that my mom and i saw a ghost on the top of the stairs.. At the time we thought it was just some lady that forgot something and came to get it before we were all moved in.. But she just vanished as we were looking at her.



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Epik
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20:57:47 Sep 28 2008
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I believe that orbs are a problem with a camera lens, a lighting problem, etc. more often than they are supernatural. That's not to say I don't believe that they can be supernatural, because I do believe that they CAN be... I believe that they're spirits, that the strength and emotion of the spirit can be determined by the transparency and color.



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bandnrd
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21:29:19 Sep 28 2008
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Orbs could be one of many things. They could be dust on the lens, or they could be actual spirits, it depends mostly on the person, the camera, and the settings.



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Fizbop
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13:38:06 Sep 29 2008
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I really dislike Orbs or any mention to them, 98% of the time they can be explained by a bug catching the light or dust particles in the air. Todate I never actully seen a good orb. Only what I thought I could only explain as well this could be dust or a bug. There are too many varibles that i think it's highly doubt full that someone would actully catch one.

Does that mean I don't believe in them. No, just only that most the time you can explain it. With only a 2% possiblity of catching a real orb it makes it really fustrating when someone shows you a picture and you have to write it off as a bug or dust.



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Anansi
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18:20:04 Sep 29 2008
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The picture of ghosts in my friends house are all orbs of different size, luminosity and density.



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Daileus
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18:58:48 Sep 29 2008
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but do you think they were really spirits?



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Ravena
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19:41:54 Sep 29 2008
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I don't think that Orbs are spirits
I believe that you can't capture a spirit on film



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dabbler
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20:06:11 Sep 29 2008
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Look back to the Spirit photography craz.. Mary Todd Lincoln Was exploited by a medium with a "spirit photo". "Mediums" would use the obituary pictures to manufacter spirit photo plates. Sometimes even putting the head on bodies with flowing robes. As someone says here, it is easy to see things that appear in real perspective, to be a ghost. It is more likely in a photo, yet alone a doctored photo. Ever notice how people have to prompt others when they show them "para-normal photos"? As an experiment I would like to take a bunch of photos, and mix them with "so called" orb and spirit photos.. I would then see how in an isolated room people find what another person explained(but not to the viewer) to be there.



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ShatteredGlassHeart
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20:09:59 Sep 29 2008
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I love this subject! I've snapped a few photos of orbs myself. I don't believe they are ghosts per say; although I do believe that orbs are energy left behind by someone who has crossed over.

I have a photo of a possible orb in one of the windows of Squire's Castle(which is in Willoughby, Ohio) in my portfolio. Feel free to check it out if you'd like!



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Confusion
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03:43:01 Sep 30 2008
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I'd have to figure that it's simply a glitch of the camera.


If not that I'd consider it being energy. Depending on the amount of energy would depend on how big the orb is.

Although the orb could be small yet more dense thus being massive in energy.



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Daileus
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04:48:18 Sep 30 2008
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But isn't "energy" and "spirits" soewhat different? Can they both be captured on film?



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jaggedxtears
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04:52:10 Sep 30 2008
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Here's a little something I thought was straight crazy and pretty cool. Story came out on CNN news last week I think.

Follow the link



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jaggedxtears
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05:05:34 Sep 30 2008
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When I saw this I immediately knew what it was and when she talks about her kid saying it was grandpa well that just hit it on the head!



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BloodyJack
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06:48:20 Sep 30 2008
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I do believe it's possible there are "orbs" but I've noticed that most of the time they appear with the use of a digital camera versus a standard camera. It does make one wonder.



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Anansi
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14:53:05 Sep 30 2008
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darkxwhisper,

In answer to your question, I do believe they were spirits, simply because they moved around with "purpose". I mean, they seems to not only move randomly, but had awareness and will to move in a direction they chose to move to.



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dabbler
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18:58:28 Sep 30 2008
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Confusion
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05:50:03 Oct 01 2008
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darkXwhisper -


They technically can be the same thing. Spirits, as with most things, are made from energy. Spirit energy and the like are spirits and energy. Ghosts too are an example.


Neither, I believe, are able to be caught on regular film.



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Daileus
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07:35:24 Oct 01 2008
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With that being said than how can you explain the videos above then? An electric spark can be caught on film. That is energy is it not? lightening. (ETC) A lot of proof backing up the proof of spirits being able to be caught on gilm and in photos.



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MOONLITDREAM
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08:35:50 Oct 01 2008
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i believe in ghosts and orbs for i have witnessed , anyways orbs can be seen while takeing pictures or video cameras... some can be dirt or something as well.. the video above was a gas station 5 min away from my house, and knowing the owners i feel it is what it is that they caught on tape... also i have been in the franklin castle thats also close to where i live and i have caught several pictures to of be orbs and a ghost image as well but if you know the difference between orbs and dust on ur lens, youd be surprised



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meeper
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17:07:21 Oct 01 2008
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In my opinion- most people do not rule out all of the possibilities before declaring it a spirit. There could be problems with the camera, dust, smudges on the lenses, the film developer could have used too much of a particular chemical, there might have been reflective surfaces outside of the picture responsible for the light... the list goes on.



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dabbler
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19:04:46 Oct 01 2008
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I am with meepers on this, when people bought ghost photos they had the same mentality, what else could it be, never noticing the simplest revealing factor, that the deceased person happened to be posed the same as in their obituary picture. sometimes in the same clothing.
I have seen people try to create the appearance of ghost on film, and video, i have recreated hauntings. The imagination is farther reaching then your belief, use it to invent your own ghost image, uncover the entertainment in the fad, try being a ghost instead of being an audience to ghost.



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Daileus
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19:18:35 Oct 01 2008
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Well in that vodeo clip that is posted above, they stated they looked for everything that could have ruled out a spirit, and there was nothing. Isn't it odd that the motion censor of the camera was following it around? As if it was radiating heat or something. If that video is indeed true....then yes it must be a spirit. I mean it was walking around!!! lol



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dabbler
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19:23:44 Oct 01 2008
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I have not listened to the sound, I did notice people where active in the building, why would they have motion sensers on when people where in the building, I see it as a person carrying a camera. How about a Promotional for the gym? You miss the opertunity here, and that is to study something that appears to be a ghost so well that it can make the actual news, even if it is not a ghost it is good, take the Browns Ghost, posted on my profile. A stumper even to Kodak Film Techs in the time it was reviewed. The Honey Moon Apparition, one of the longest running Anniversity appartions still unexposed.

Plus wouldn't security cameras be fogged over if ghost appeared like that? I mean really we would be shrouded with ghost on every camera with the number of deaths each year even allowing for fading spirits, and "passing over souls".



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trissy
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20:47:02 Oct 01 2008
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Many of you know about the false positive craze that struck the 80's and 90's, on up untill today, known as orbs. The concept of people thinking every "orb" they see is in fact a legit orb, makes my mind boggle. And here's why.

Legit orbs are nothing more than natural energy that can be recreated in labs. Now on another note, there are scientists researching immensely on if orbs are, or not natural energy, but energy on a spiritual level. I personally stick with the general sensus within the scientific aspects of this field, by saying that most orbs seen in potographs are in fact a number of natural mundane causes.

These causes can be dust, bugs, lens flare, light refraction, moisture, insulation, and many other possibilities as well. It could also be from the wrong flash setting which could lead to double exposure. Matrixing also plays a huge part. If one were to see a face in a "orb," it was because their brain wanted to see it. Our brains are "programmed" to spot out faces or other familiar objects in what we cannot entirely focus on. And this is something that does need to be taken seriously, and not easily overlooked, or bypassed.

Awww ... the orb debate. LOL. I will go ahead and rock the boat here. I do also believe that 99.9% of all "orb" are nothing but dust, pollen, ect. But when you can visibly see an "orb" with the naked eye, it has it's own light source, and it moves of its own free will here and there. No, not a bug (we don't have fireflies here in Oregon) nor car lights or other explainable sources (all checked). You go, you see and all you come away with is a cheezy pic.

I do believe there is something more to this subject than just dust. It is to easy to throw it out because we do not really have a way of measuring it or investigating what they really are. It is energy yes, but from where. And why do we see them when there is activity or right after something major has happened? Is it the energy left over from the spirit like a ripple in water after you throw the rock in the lake? I don't know and that is why I can't close the book on this one. I don't know so I continue to look.

watch the flick "The Veil is Lifting: Orbs"

We may be living in the midst of other dimensions our eyes alone cannot perceive. New technological advances are allowing us to confirm what many have believed—that there is more to our world than meets the eye. Orbs: The Veil is Lifting shows how modern digital photography allows us to observe what has been with us all along: a hidden world of light spheres known as Orbs.

Orbs: The Veil is Lifting is the first full-length film that brings together scientists, spiritual teachers, and experts to explore the orb phenomenon. What are these Orbs? What does the presence of Orbs mean, and how do we experience them for ourselves? Through the lenses of science, skepticism, and first-hand experience, Orbs opens the conversation by addressing questions about the possibilities of what exists in the unseen. Viewers are then invited to draw their own conclusions and to explore their own first-hand experiences.




This is just my opinion. I'm looking foward to hearing other thoughts, and or opinions as well.



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trissy
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21:06:44 Oct 01 2008
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well dabbler,

most of the info i have shared i have read books on the subject, found in our local library here. including the movie i mentioned "The Veil is Lifting: Orbs" . There are many diffrent aspects on belliefs all are very interesting from the scientific to the pharanormal.



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Confusion
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22:27:37 Oct 01 2008
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If it were anything I'd have to figure a manipulation done to the film before uploading.



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Erinyes
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23:58:34 Oct 01 2008
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here is an interesting article on orbs

http://www.prairieghosts.com/trouble.html

personally i think only by personal experience with the eye and not a lense can one know for sure



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Confusion
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03:22:02 Oct 02 2008
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If spirits are supposedly invisible to the naked eye, what difference would the camera make?



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dabbler
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03:48:59 Oct 02 2008
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Now to take it and attempt to duplicate the effect, I would look at fuzzy floaters on the same camera. Static can play a part in such things, I wouldn't invest much in it even if it as a ghost. What would it prove, that all claims are real? I think not. You want to see something so bad. You want physical proof so bad, I can line up more "one time popular unexplained appearances" I would leave out the researchers findings. you would be just as astonished at the findings as you are about this case. Sensational as it is. it is a spiritual matter you are subscribed to correct. If you are seeking others to validate your position you will continue to be disappointed, how about the approach I take with the Brown Photo, it is the most stumping How did they do it. Still a mystery, but notice how Scooby Doo and gang always found the effects.



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ThisTimeImperfect
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20:33:47 Oct 02 2008
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I would like to believe that they are lost spirits, cause I am a big believer in ghost and other paranormal things.



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dabbler
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20:36:17 Oct 02 2008
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Can we imagine things that appear to be ghost? Do we need to believe that a magician is sawing a woman in half? Does the magician need to believe he is sawing a woman in half? Exercise the imagination, and the things you create will entertain more then your beliefs.



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DarkTone
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21:25:44 Oct 02 2008
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I read on an earlier post someone saying notice how perfectly round the orbs are on that picture.... It was a picture of a witch convention or something....*can't entirely remember* But didn't you see the splatter on the rest of the picture obviously due to a dirty lens or malfunction.... It looks like the lens is horribly dirty.... :/



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DarkTone
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21:30:24 Oct 02 2008
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I see that and I also see what appears to be snot or something of the sort on the camera lens.



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Confusion
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22:31:20 Oct 02 2008
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If it were indeed untampered with I would still have to believe it nothing more than bad lighting, honestly.



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Chadwich
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02:57:43 Jan 01 2009
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I believe orbs in photography are little more than obstructions of some type.. Dust,water,bugs, etc...
However eyewitness accounts of such phenomenon are a different matter all together and widespread throughout the world... When someone says they saw a ball of light floating around I tend to believe them.. But unfortunately there is rarely a picture and an eyewitness account together they always seem to be independent of one another.. What is this ball of light?
Could be anything from a wandering spirit, to the extreme a completly undiscovered entity that exists on another plane....



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dabbler
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16:50:57 Jan 01 2009
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I have witnessed such "balls of light" , if I was to be questioned as to the surrounding conditions of where I saw such things it would be clear the interviewer what I saw, and the source.



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DecemberNemesis
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00:16:24 Jan 02 2009
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It's my opinion that orbs are nothing more than water vapor or dust motes in the air, with some light reflection going on.

But if someone wants to believe it's a ghost, it's not my business.



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CherryAdvocaat
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01:18:54 Jan 02 2009
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Orbs are DUST. I see 'orb' photos nearly everyday, and have not yet seen one that I'm convinced has anything to do with ghosts. I made a post on this subject recently actually.



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LivNdedGirl
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03:12:30 Jan 02 2009
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i dont have my orb pics handy on this computer but the news i recieved from a paranormal investigator friend of mine says that orbs are nothing more then kicked up dust and or gases that escape thru the orb services ... now me personally i would dearly love to believe these are our long lost family and friends but it seems science has taken the fun out of it all but the pics are still fasinatong enough



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BBorn30
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21:36:27 Jan 02 2009
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I think that a few people have made great comments on this subject. From dust, to light refraction or condensation on the lens. My expierence has taught me though that orbs are spirtual entities on some level.
I had a expierence when I was in Germany that made this a reality for me not just a belief. I think that it is a matter of having a open mind to the fact that the spirtual world is not fully understood by the living as we are not on the other side as it were



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FacelessUnknown
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22:49:04 Jan 02 2009
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I think people use "Orbs" as a tool for suggestion. all this crap about it being the "first manefestation of a spirt" is bull XD If it was that much effort i dont think i'd try!



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saphireblood
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15:59:28 Jan 03 2009
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i believe that orbs can have some other explanation. I took a few pictures in our living room simontaneously once and I had to orbs show up in most of the pictures, and the strange thing to me was the faces in them. If I get the pictures developed I will post them



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dabbler
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18:57:09 Jan 03 2009
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We as humans, are capable of not only belief, but imagination as well. When one person accepts something as imagined, then another says , "Oh but you need to consider that it "just might have been.." Seems imagining is not as sensational for some anymore.

With imagination comes craft, people craft elaberate hoaxes, let alone interprete any abstract anomily to bolster their impression on those who don't share their entuism for something that the created to look Awe Fantastic, and Mesmerizing.

Like the child that plots to scare other children, and fails, resorts to " Ghost really do exist."
Then the moment another child accepts their case, or simply humours them, they up the ante, "I saw a ghost." the agenda is to project a venear of bravado to the other children. At the same time making those who accept such things as imagined feel inferiour. So you saw nothing supernatural!

If you insist you have, then I inviite you to present it in your journal, if you don't mind a few inquirious questions. See ghost stories, like Fish Tails are only as successful as the narrative is able to lend itself to scrutiny. If I witnessed an unexplainable event ( and I have) you bet your Orb photo I will have astute observations ready to acccount.



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dabbler
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19:14:42 Jan 03 2009
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Even as a believer one needs to speculate that not everybody has merit to their claim.

Part of the attraction of being a proslitizing believer of the Super Natural is the " I-convinced-them", or now they will be more ready to believe the next phase.

Example:Step one- believe in the after life.Step two believe their is interaction between that afterlife, and this life.Step three- believe that the person "instructing" you is "aligned" with that afterlife. Step 4 Believe you can learn to do the same thing they claim to do ( bring your money).



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LivNdedGirl
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00:02:08 Jan 04 2009
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ok iam all for teaching people what i know ...if what i know is fact and i can back it up... if the person refuses to absorb this info for him self iam not gonna stand over him and beat him with a whip till he believes ...we are here to learn and expand some people chose not to and it is not my job to shove fact or beliefs of mine down anyones throat ...i do pity the people who do not drink of the fountin of knowledge thoe



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tigerzplay
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19:47:55 Jan 04 2009
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I have seen orbs, but i have to ask a question in regards to orbs.

How can they be caught on film or video?

The orbs I have seen have been way to fast to catch and it takes me a few seconds to even realize what it is that i've just seen. They are very fast, not sure how anyone can capture them on film. Now I am not saying that it has not been done, I just don't think it occurs as often as I have seen postings of pictures about it. One would almost have to know when the orb is going to happen to be able to capture it.



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La6Muerte66
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20:38:20 Jan 04 2009
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A similar question arose in my mind when wondering how one could catch spirits on film in general. If they can't be seen by the human eye beforehand, then they obviously don't reflect or cast light. Film works by being quickly exposed to light and catching a still-frame of whatever light hits it. This being the case, how can an invisible spirit even cast an image on film?

Furthermore, if it is a property of the film itself, and if orbs really were spiritual in nature (and still not visible to the naked eye), then how can anyone catch them on digital camera? These things just don't add up.



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tigerzplay
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20:46:35 Jan 04 2009
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I would agree. while it does make for a great tv show or a hollywood movie factory but is it reality. I have seen orbs out of the corner of my eye but it does take my mind a bit to process whats been seen. So I would have to agree with you.



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LivNdedGirl
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23:42:27 Jan 04 2009
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i have to disagree with orbs not being able to be seen by the naked eye these do not look like the orbs that are caught on film but little tiny pin points of bright light that zip across a room and disapear into a wall . i seen them on many occastion i went to doctors and told them and had my eyes checked all came out fine and there is no other explanation they are orbs



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La6Muerte66
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02:09:52 Jan 05 2009
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i seen them on many occastion i went to doctors and told them and had my eyes checked all came out fine

There doesn't have to be anything wrong with your eyes for them to play tricks on you. As Beastt17 has explained numerous times, tiny specs of dust can briefly get caught in the fluid around your cornea, giving the impression of a ghostly image that moves if you try to look directly at it. It's actually rather annoying, but you blink your eyes once or twice and it's gone.

there is no other explanation they are orbs

I've just explained it another way. You want them to be orbs, so you conclude that they are. You're not looking at every possible explanation.


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DecemberNemesis
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04:32:42 Jan 05 2009
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True....but the same could be argued here. By agreeing that orbs are nothing more than optical illusion or the result of debris in the eye...and dismissing any all other possible explanations including that of the supernatural....arent you doing the same thing? Excluding all evidence except for what agrees with your own opinion?

Just saying.

The idea if I remember right, behind using cameras, both conventional and digital, is to catch what moves too quickly for the human eye to register, and to obtain some form of evidence. Also working on the theory that ghosts (and presumably orbs) draw energy to them, which can then be picked up by a camera.

Most people when they're snapping pictures dont see the orbs until after the film is developed.

Not saying anyone is wrong here, but it does seem like some are getting defensive about those who will not bend to seeing other possibilities on both sides of this fence.

Anyone ever consider that maybe everything suggested so far is simultanously correct? Who ever said there HAD to only be ONE explanation?





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La6Muerte66
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05:26:43 Jan 05 2009
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True....but the same could be argued here. By agreeing that orbs are nothing more than optical illusion or the result of debris in the eye...and dismissing any all other possible explanations including that of the supernatural....arent you doing the same thing? Excluding all evidence except for what agrees with your own opinion?

I'm not necessarily excluding it, but until genuine evidence is presented that actually points to the supernatural, there's no reason to look beyond the physical - the only explanation that has ever been confirmed.

The idea if I remember right, behind using cameras, both conventional and digital, is to catch what moves too quickly for the human eye to register

Were that the case, then different shutter speeds and different quality films would yield different amounts of smearing and tracing, but no such phenomenon seems to exist. If I'm not mistaken, all supposed orb photos are static, regardless of the medium.

Also working on the theory that ghosts (and presumably orbs) draw energy to them, which can then be picked up by a camera.

That's why I brought up the digital cameras as well as standard film. There may be some effect that orbs and 'energy' might have on film, but that wouldn't apply to digital cameras, which use no such medium. No doubt these would have a different effect on semiconductor screens that the effect on film, and still, the pictures are all the same.


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LivNdedGirl
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12:59:19 Jan 05 2009
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thanks for the defence in the orb thread lol that one dude is just getting on my nerve he is like a total know it all lets beat it into the ground type me personally would like to agree that we disagree. giggles i try to look for the scienctific reasons for anything first ...i know what i see and what i feel in my heart, it may be wrong but it does not effect anyone else in the long run then me.



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La6Muerte66
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13:34:45 Jan 05 2009
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Agreeing to disagree is a pointless cop-out. No one should EVER agree to disagree on something that can be measured quantitatively. If I tell you that the sky is red, but can't provide any evidence, then I start telling OTHER PEOPLE (operative words there) what it is, wouldn't you feel compelled to correct me, or at the very least, question what I'm saying? You can have your opinions, but when you share them in public, you'd better be prepared to defend them.



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LivNdedGirl
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16:02:14 Jan 05 2009
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you dont see what i see
you dont feel what i feel
if i research something and all signs point to it is not something that can be explained by science ... then how am i to show you... why tell you my expeirance if your not gonna have an open mind.
i cant see or feel what you do and if you told me you saw the loch ness monster while we walked along the loch and i missed it because i was looking at a cloud in the sky WHO AM I TO SAY YOUR INSANE i would be in awe that i missed a sight that only you expieranced and with out a camara geez what proof do you have other then your word "A MAN IS ONLY AS GOOD AS HIS WORD"



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La6Muerte66
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16:15:24 Jan 05 2009
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if i research something and all signs point to it is not something that can be explained by science ... then how am i to show you

Show your research. Show us what you've looked at and why it can't be explained by science, rather than just stating flatly that it can't.

why tell you my expeirance if your not gonna have an open mind.

An open mind looks at all the evidence. You, so far, haven't provided any. I'm being open-minded by not blindly accepting what you claim as fact.

f you told me you saw the loch ness monster while we walked along the loch and i missed it because i was looking at a cloud in the sky WHO AM I TO SAY YOUR INSANE

A rational person. That's who you'd be. I'm not getting into a discussion about the Loch Ness Monster, suffice it to say that the basic existential proclamation bears the burden of proof. No one has ever provided empirical evidence to Nessie's existence, nor the existence of orbs, for that matter.

i would be in awe that i missed a sight that only you expieranced and with out a camara geez what proof do you have other then your word "A MAN IS ONLY AS GOOD AS HIS WORD"

If I made a claim to have seen a purple dragon that peaks out of storm drains to say hi to me, but only when no one else is looking, would you be in awe that you can't see my purple dragon, and take me on my word? I doubt it. If anyone claims to have seen something for which there has NEVER been presented a shred of objective evidence, there's absolutely NO reason to take them at their word.


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dabbler
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16:27:15 Jan 05 2009
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Two cameras triggered in sync should be able to "capture" the same "orb".

You rely on your senses. Yet you are aware that illusionist do not actually
Saw people in half right?

What is the attraction to Orbs? It is the same thing as "spirit photography" ( only lacking any creative processing, take a bad picture claim it is an orb.)


Have you ever been flush?

While your blood pressure spikes, sometimes when I over sleep, hours after I wake I get optic sparks.

So if any thing is possible.. It is possible for an "orb" to be captured by two cameras as mentioned above. Then I will consider looking further into it.

I also know how people create video orbs on live feed. Too bad it was exposed as a hoax, but not until it was gobbled up by self titled ghost experts.. academic, and gullible.Even main stream news gets excited over
" spooky photos".

So LDG if I was to simple accept that what you saw was what you saw, because you are convincing, would you say." You would have to see it to believe it."?

Now what if I accepted that , and believe you. Would you expect me to
Believe everybody elses claim? What if I went on to tell you I see them more then you? That I can predict when you will see them?
That I can make them appear right before your eyes.. that the person next to you will see them as well? Orbs visible to a room, and camera, all not only
Possible but Able to be observed.



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DarkAngelDevina
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17:24:48 Jan 05 2009
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Sorry for the one line post before my pc at work had a glitch.

So to continue what I was saying.
I also feel that they have have no purpose other than to make ones mind run wild wondering what it really is. And if they are indeed of the supernatural kind it is my thoughts that they are seen by those who need to see them and for reasons known to only them.



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dabbler
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17:59:43 Jan 05 2009
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The interpretation is just as telling as the picture perhaps.
People want a way to introduce sentimental subjects into conversation.

It was ghost photos. People jump at demonstrations of their belief, it gets novel, people expecting ghost to jump through hoops, my craft makes me a ghost I learn from peoples candid responses, and how they relate what ( or what they didn't see". This has shown me something far more convinced
Then any novel occult demonstration, of what does exist, it is not as sensational by any means, but it is real, and it aids in mourning instead of
Entertaining grief.



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LivNdedGirl
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21:06:57 Jan 05 2009
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Photobucket
in this pic there are many orbs of differant sizes and colors and if you look to the person sitting on the right there is a orb on his face in a almost dust free enviroment and deffenantly no condisation on the lense


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La6Muerte66
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22:02:41 Jan 05 2009
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The orbs all seem to be in two definite streaks, going from upper right gradually to the lower left. It appears very uniform. They could very well still be close-up dust particles (they are always in the air, whether you see them or not).

Notice how the orbs are larger and closer together between the window and the camera, and get much smaller and further apart the further from the window? And the upper set of them, they're in a perfectly straight line. I'm not sure what that means, if anything, but they still look like nothing more than miniscule dust particles on the lens.

What gave you the impression that they HAD to be supernatural?



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oxidisingangel
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08:24:29 Jan 06 2009
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I personally believe that orbs are angels.



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DecemberNemesis
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09:49:38 Jan 06 2009
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La6Muerte66..

"I'm not necessarily excluding it, but until genuine evidence is presented that actually points to the supernatural, there's no reason to look beyond the physical - the only explanation that has ever been confirmed."

Define "genuine evidence" and what you really have, is someone's opinion usually stated with a level of "authority" as "fact".

"Were that the case, then different shutter speeds and different quality films would yield different amounts of smearing and tracing, but no such phenomenon seems to exist. If I'm not mistaken, all supposed orb photos are static, regardless of the medium."

I dont know of anyone who changes rolls of film from poor quality to good or vice versa, mid photo shoot. For that matter, I've not known alot of people to change shutter speeds either. Ive no idea if they're supposed to be static or not, but it would be strange for a either a dust mote or a spirit to stick to one place while it's being photographed by different cameras. Especially when generally, nobody can see them until after the film is developed. So how would a photographer know when one is there to start aiming a whole messload of cameras at it? Just saying.

"That's why I brought up the digital cameras as well as standard film. There may be some effect that orbs and 'energy' might have on film, but that wouldn't apply to digital cameras, which use no such medium. No doubt these would have a different effect on semiconductor screens that the effect on film, and still, the pictures are all the same. "

Are they? Let's say that you and I are standing in a room looking for ghosts. You have a standard 35 mm, I have a digital. As I understand it, the general practice is to snap pictures of the room and hope for the best, because people cant actually see the orbs before the cameras snap the picture. It's a natural tendency for two people to snap together or within a second or two of each other. Let's say we got an orb in my shot. Later, we get your film developed, and there is the same orb. Dust mote? Good possibility, since it likely wouldnt have moved far, if we both snapped pictures in the same direction at nearly the same second. That's why the pictures would be the same. Same would be true if it was a ghost.

"There may be some effect that orbs and 'energy' might have on film, but that wouldn't apply to digital cameras,"

Or, it could be that the camera sees more than the human eye, and furthermore, records it better. Of course energy has an effect on film. Sunlight is energy, and expose a roll of film to it and see what happens lol. Digital cameras though, make good proof of something when used together with regular film cameras. If both are picking up the same thing, then it's NOT THE FILM.

Whatever else it might be at that point, is a matter of point of view, opinion and perspective.








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DecemberNemesis
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10:00:03 Jan 06 2009
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I apologize now, cause I just cant resist:

"If I made a claim to have seen a purple dragon that peaks out of storm drains to say hi to me, but only when no one else is looking, would you be in awe that you can't see my purple dragon, and take me on my word? I doubt it. If anyone claims to have seen something for which there has NEVER been presented a shred of objective evidence, there's absolutely NO reason to take them at their word. "

If you had a purple dragon that peeks out at you from storm drains when no one else is looking to say hi to you, would you have a camera handy to take it's picture? What if someone else came along, saw your picture and made one just like it, to prove it was all a hoax? Should that invalidate your picture, and your experience?

;)






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La6Muerte66
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13:53:15 Jan 06 2009
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Define "genuine evidence" and what you really have, is someone's opinion usually stated with a level of "authority" as "fact".

Perhaps I should have said empirical evidence. Something that can be tested, on multiple occasions if need be.

I dont know of anyone who changes rolls of film from poor quality to good or vice versa, mid photo shoot. For that matter, I've not known alot of people to change shutter speeds either.

I wasn't talking about people at a single photo shoot. I'm saying that every "unexplained" orb photo looks almost exactly the same, regardless of the quality film used or shutter speed. And I was addressing the idea that orbs all move too fast for the eye to see, but if that were the case, why do they all appear static, regardless of film quality and shutter speed?

Let's say that you and I are standing in a room looking for ghosts. You have a standard 35 mm, I have a digital.

Once again, I don't mean photos taken in the same instance or at the same time. I mean every "unexplained" orb photo ever presented, whether on standard or digital camera, looks the same. Every time, they've been identified as one of only a few causes, none of which involve the supernatural.

Or, it could be that the camera sees more than the human eye, and furthermore, records it better. Of course energy has an effect on film. Sunlight is energy, and expose a roll of film to it and see what happens lol. Digital cameras though, make good proof of something when used together with regular film cameras. If both are picking up the same thing, then it's NOT THE FILM.

Cameras are designed to only pick up light from a small portion of the electromagnetic spectrum. Sunlight is visible light, and can be seen with the naked eye. That point was entirely irrelevant. If a digital camera and film camera simultaneously picked up the same phenomena, that would make for a much more compelling case, but to date has that ever been presented?

I'm not even getting into your rebuttal of my dragon analogy. lol.


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La6Muerte66
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14:20:01 Jan 06 2009
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Dammit, I had to address this:

If you had a purple dragon that peeks out at you from storm drains when no one else is looking to say hi to you, would you have a camera handy to take it's picture? What if someone else came along, saw your picture and made one just like it, to prove it was all a hoax? Should that invalidate your picture, and your experience?


The analogy was addressed to the statement that people are only as good as their word, and the tendency of an individual to simply take people at their word.

That being said, if I saw something as fantastical as, say, a purple dragon, my mind would follow a few steps of logic.

1. Question my perceptions. Am I really seeing a purple dragon right now.

2. Gather evidence. This is where the picture comes in. If it's another blurry, unidentifiable thing in the picture, I've done a crappy job gathering evidence, haven't I? (On a side note, if it was too far away to get a clear picture, the chances of it being a mere illusion are much higher.)

3. Examine the evidence, compare it to what we currently know about the world. If it doesn't match ANY of the known rules of biology, physics, etc., then there's a problem.

4. Come to a rational conclusion. If I have a photo that can be, not necessarily hoaxed, but explained away, and my findings didn't at least closely match the known understanding of the world, then yes, that should invalidate the picture and the experience. I'd go have myself checked out.

What if someone else came along, saw your picture and made one just like it, to prove it was all a hoax?

That's a good point, but it doesn't mean that anyone who has a picture of something is telling the truth. If I have a picture of a purple dragon, and there exists no record of dragons ever having existed, no record of purple ever being evolutionary advantageous to a large creature, no point on the evolutionary chain that could lead to the evolution of a dragon, and no reason as to why dragons would have eluded valid scientific observation for so long, only to be discovered by accident by a hapless bystander, then the only rational conclusion one should come to is that it's not real.

The only reason, I feel, that people are so much more willing to believe in the presence of ghosts is the long-held belief in some consciousness beyond the physical body. Similar to the belief in vampires, there exists no empirical evidence of their existence, yet people of many cultures had myths and stories about them, so people seem to feel more comfortable in their unfounded beliefs simply because of a fallacy ad populum.



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dabbler
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19:41:02 Jan 06 2009
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Note To Self Barney is not real.

My youngest brother who was born with Down Syndrome, had figured out that Cartoons are people in costumes, his personal logic appears accurate, he was told while attending a theme park (and freaking out at the costumed mascots, that they where only people, and one of the characters tipped his lid to calm him. An "unknown factor that scared him.. Revealed.. the evolution of his logic expanded that to cartoons being Costumed people.

I have spooked people with my craft , and people have refused to return to the house, even after I demonstrated the effect.. usually because another person that was spooked, plays into the experience.

I always expose my activity for this very reason.

As I see Orbs as not very creative, compared to the Brown Ghost
Photo, one that stood up to scrutiny.

I have took part in Filming "orbs", and "UFO" on Video. So what
I request is the next time a person is in a Orb hot spot, they consider a duel trigger release it should be considered possible that two cameras should catch the same thing, doing complexity to the case is dodging, dodging shows a lack of confidence.

Anything claimed to be demonstratable does not require belief, it either gains confidence, or it doesn't. One person sees a blurry picture with an abstract image as "objective" proof, that supports their beliefs.. they may not even be confident, thus the reason to ask others. I seldom see a "ghost photo" that does not have the "image" circled, if it is so glaringly obvious if it is shown to 10 people a majority will spot the image, without prompting.



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VR System
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19:41:02 Jan 06 2009
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This thread has been automatically closed for length.



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