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I've seen a common occurrence throughout several threads - the argument of reality. In the broadest definition of the word, reality is made up of one's beliefs. If you believe it to be so, then so be it. However, there is the argument that shouts back saying "you can't just believe that can fly and *poof*, you're flying".

Many threads on magic and curses, even the soul, emphasize the need to believe in a certain reality in order for it to be real. Going through previous threads, I found a post by Felixfelix who, to paraphrase, asked if we can't fly because we just don't believe enough.

So how about it. What to you is reality?

Reality differs from what people claim.

Imagination, and creativity effect reality only when people act. Belief, has never been recorded as effecting reality. Things presented to support beliefs have only entertained the beliefs people.

I will agree that belief has not been recorded as having changed reality, but if reality can shape your belief logic would have it that your future reality would be viewed through your established beliefs.

You and I are walking down the street. You feel a tap on your shoulder. When you turn to look around, there is no one there, so you look at me and ask if I saw anyone. I confirm that noone is there, but you say "but I felt someone tap my shoulder". The average sane person will try to come up with multiple rational reasons for the sensation, but you're absolutely positive that someone tapped your shoulder. No, it wasn't an acorn. No, it wasn't a raindrop. It was the distinct feeling of someone tapping your shoulder. To you, it was real because you felt it. And now you believe that someone tapped your shoulder.

I believe what appeared to tap my shoulder. What actually appeared to be a tap on the shoulder. If I try to convince others that something other then physical tapped my shoulder, I would need to have others that have had something unexplainable tap their shoulder. Then I need to poll them as to what it is they believe tapped their shoulder.

"Something as common as a snag can produce the effect of a tap on the shoulder." States the skeptics. Until the experience is wide spread, and the area of the events are taken into account, then you are likely to have a foundation for a following.

Projected Beliefs can stagnate, things that people claim to exist, are likely to be fabricated, real in appearance. As in physically observable. How those fabrications interact with reality determine the level of belief in others. Medicine Shows, and as far back as the Fakirs counted on this very principle.

If I was to tell you that I really, actually flew (with no mechanical support). That is a presented claim.

The question I should expect, " Can you do it now, right here?"

If not then the actuality, is in question.

If I have a witness support my claim, with"I saw this person fly (with no mechanical means)."

the questions would be "How did you observe this flight?"

If the person says, "I believe they flew."

Then that persons accepted reality is virtual, until the situation he observed what he based his reality on is demonstrated to a third party, so is reality in the majority?

see it
feel it
smell it
ect ect
id have to say is the only way to tell reality

i had to think about the last post for a second
it dont really make sence to me
if its happening to you
and you know it is
is that reality
i mean you can see it touch feel it ect ect
atleast one of those
why would you doubt its reality

I have to agree with Ade on this one.

We make our realities. We may all live in one reality, but what we do influenes this and makes it our own. Same with the mind and dreams. Our mindscape is another reality. We make that our own with things we like, or with things that help calm us down. I think that dreams are another form of reality

Actual reality, and perceived reality.. ?

And dabbler wins the prize!

Yes, that is what I was getting at. We have the reality in which we live, and at night we have our perceived reality. How we would like things to be.

Would this not be another interesting topic in this thread to discuss?

Perceptive reality can be manipulated. Beliefs effect perceptive reality. As well as how certain subscribers to beliefs interact with reality. Creativity is how we interact with actual reality. Physically we can only change our actual reality.

This is one where the almighty brain can be fooled by imagination. That is, our brains don't always know what is real. If we visualize something in enuf detail --- say a golf swing, a dive, or a tennis stroke --- our brain will transmit messages to the appropriate muscles, which in conjunction with the brain will memorize that event as if an actual practice had taken place.

Ultimately, reality is a constant gathering of information through our own senses, but also a refining process where we seek to gather info on what those around us are perceiving. Have you ever said, "Did you see that?" or "What was that?" or just looked around to measure other's reactions. Another way to look at it is to examine how a child learns what is appropriate personal space for their culture. There may be cultural differences for reality in terms of color, and spacial perception.

This is a constant process for the social/community creatures that we are, and some people are better at people reading than others. does that mean their reality perception is sharper than ours? Maybe.

Does that mean reality is by popular consensus? Perhaps.

Not so for numbers, and other such bases for communication in a non-perceptual domain.

That is true.

Another question would have to be, what causes us to start "creating" our perceived reality?

Perhaps when we start looking for things that compliment our beliefs.

Projecting our selfs beyond this present reality, to a greater reality.. so perhaps it is boredom.

Perhaps. But do you think that we start creating our perceived realities when we are children? Playing dress up, make beleive, or haveing imaginary friends? Then say that we forget about it until we reach teenagerdom, and suddenly everything re-surfaces, and we resume our perceived reality.

That is creatively interacting with our perceived reality. When we cross the line into present our perceived reality as more then imagined, then it is belief.

We can present things, or events in attempt to make our perceived reality more actual. But only the perceived reality is accepted, actual reality is on changed, only manipulated in appearance.

I am learning new things!!!

I wish that I knew other people as informed as you! It makes a lot of sense, and people don't realize that they are doing it. They just do it.

By others accepting their perceived reality, they hope to saturate actual reality.

When it doesn't happen, then people tend to get upset, angry, and what have you/

The intent is worth noting when someone seeks to convert our perceived reality. Some Changes to our accepted perceived reality make us vulnerable to actual reality. Like for example the Johova witnesses not allowing members to receive Blood transfusions.

I think that is pretty stupid. No offense to any JW out there.

When that happens, we tend to sink into our own reality to escape the one we are in.

Our perceived reality is set by belief, more forgiving then actual reality. Our creative interaction with our perceived reality, can play a healthy role when needed. Pressing things closer to actual reality.. invites dementia.

Perception at once shapes the mind and the rules over time. Time however erodes human perception, and then in turn warps the mind. The mind is Capricious, having various effects on perception, time, and the mind itself...with harmony progress is made. Chaos like the mind, can be understood only through scientific process. order, however is only as good as the perception there of. Time is the key that links the two and bears witness thier ebb & flow.

the above was taken from a quest in the game vampire the masquerade...
and i truely believe that there is power in belief and belief brings on power and you can feel it ...i was told about a book that iam sure we all know of but i shall leave it nameless and i feel most of it is a great story book of fiction but one part said with belief you can move mountains effects may not be noticeable ASAP but things happen

I guess I'd have to go with pretty much the opposite of the definition given in the opening post.

I don't see any way in which our reality is constructed by our beliefs. It's hard for me to believe that the people in Hiroshima could have been saved simply be believing that no bomb had been dropped. I'd like to believe that I have all the things in life that I want. And yet I can't make myself believe what is obviously untrue. And if I were able to believe it anyway, how would that make it true? Even if I firmly believed that I had the one most important thing that I lack, it wouldn't make it so.

There is an old children's tale about a chicken named "Henny Penny" who gets struck on the head by a falling acorn, and jumps to the conclusion that the sky is falling. She runs about the barnyard trying to warn the rest of the animals that the sky is falling. It causes her much trouble. The moral of the story is simple but apparently quite valuable; "Thinking doesn't make things so."

Believing what isn't true is simply being out of touch with reality.

To me Reality is here and now.. Not living in a damn fantasy world where things are perfect and nothing is wrong.Well it isn't perfect and there is much wrong in the reality world..

So how about it. What to you is reality?

My own personal reality is knowing that I am a small part of a much greater one.

Each Interpretation of an event is an excursion from what really happen, some people accept this to mean that actual reality changes with each telling , even narratives vary. When people start to insert beliefs into reality, the interpreted reality takes a central role.. this is likely to vary even in those that share a base interpreted reality.

The stagnation from others that press their interpreted reality one others needs to be countered, people need to be given the basic direction for observing, and interacting with actual reality. All the variations (some extreme) in interpreted realities(based on adopted beliefs) have clashed with actual reality in epic scales. Those that scorn reality, usually offer an altered perception right away to those that drift. Thankfully people do leave the ranks, people don't stop questioning once they "accept" a perceived amended reality.

For me reality is what I experience from day to day externally and internally, but other than vague answer I wouldn't be able to produce a more sought-after philosophical one, one of the downsides of being a history major.

Reality is what each individual makes it, if it were not this way we would not be considered individuals.

The answer to the reality question is so hard to describe. Here goes.
Reality is what the vast majority perceives it to be. If the majority agrees that I am indeed sitting in a chair typing right now, then that is what I am doing in reality. For the minority who see and say that I am actually sitting on a donkey eating chips right now are said to have lost their grip on reality, for it goes against the perception of the majority. However, it is a reality to them. It's just not our reality.
Hope that makes sense.

Have you ever parsed an observable event by listening to different people describe it? I have, and the feedback was mind-boggling in terms of the variance.

If reality is absolute, then it must be individual interpretation which shapes perception.

I feel that reality is what you percieve of it as other have said, I mean if you believe it to be real in your mind then that is a reality "to you" / "them". Yet true reality hell it could be matrix for all we know, that we are actually in an animated state living what seems to be a reality, where in fact it is just electrons and nuerons plusing images to our brain to beileve it is so.

I mean I hope what I am living is a reality even if it is not always perfect or everything I want. I mean life is a reality it can be rough and very hard for many just to get through a day, so I say let reality be what ever one wants it to be... Just an opinion

Reality is life, its what I smell, breath, eat, drink, feed, write my checks too.

Reality is "Your" life. Some peoples' reality is not anothers. Some people are waaayy out there, their reality is spending the day catching flies that aren't there. Other peoples realities, like Paris Hilton, consist of shopping , hair extentions, and cute pets with gucci sweaters. Another persons reality is picking through garbage to be able to eat. Reality is life.

Reality is a relative term and connot be defined by one person.

Reality to me is what I can feel, touch, taste, smell, hear and in some cases see, but not all cases.

Reality seems to allow for minor fluctuations, but certainly does not provide an individual and separate existence for every person nor does the belief of any person change reality.

What we believe doesn't shape reality. Reality can shape our beliefs, if we allow it to by subscribing to evidence, rather than to emotion.

A car drives by with a flash bulb mounted on top, equidistant between a photon detector on the hood and another photon detector on the trunk. The vehicle is traveling forward at 80 mph when the flash fires. Which photon detector receives the first burst of photons from the flash?

The answer is; it depends on the location of the observer. This sounds counter-intuitive but it's how reality works. To someone in the car, the bursts of photons strike both detectors at the same time. To a person standing on the side of the road as the car moves past, the rear detector receives the first burst of photons. Both observations are real. Neither are any kind of optical illusion. Which reality is perceived relies not upon the belief of the observer, but their position relative to the event in question.

This is taking reality down to fraction of a razor's edge. For the most part, in any way that actually affects any of us externally, there is only one reality. It cares not in the least what you believe. There is but one reality and it goes right on being real regardless of what anyone believes. The only way to align one's beliefs with reality is to separate from what you want to believe, and focus upon what reality demonstrates.

Hrm...well...this one is a tough one. Reality is what you make of it, I suppose is what I'd have to say. I can't really say that, if you believe you can fly, you'll fly, but to me, if you believe you can do something logical, then you can do it. Meaning, if you believe you are going to succeed at making a masterpiece, then you can do it. It doesn't matter if you have any artistic talent or not. If we didn't believe we could go to the moon, then we wouldn't have gone to the moon. And if we didn't believe that we weren't confined to the ground, than there wouldn't be airplanes.

Reality is fluctuating matter and energy, at a moment space intersects time. It exists because we expeience it as perception of that moment and our brain registers the experience as it has been programed.

Note that the physical ability for man to fly was never not present. By pursuing flight we changed nothing about reality. We only changed our belief (some believed it was possible before it was demonstrated to be possible and others changed their belief after seeing the demonstration). In each case, the beliefs were built upon sound objective analysis.

The same goes for traveling to the moon. The ability was always within the scope of reality so reality didn't change. The only thing that changed was our ability to demonstrate that it was within the scope of reality.

Our beliefs don't alter reality. If we are confident that an ability is not obstructed by reality, then we become more willing to pursue those abilities. But whether we pursue them or not, reality doesn't change.

I believe that no two people's idea on reality is the same. That the things you believe in and I mean completely believe in create the reality you live in.

However society pushes for a united reality where you work and work and work... to save up for your retirement and then you die. In the meantime you marry, have your 2.5 children, be the dutiful wife, husband or parent and then quietly die in a rest home so you won't be a bother to your children.

The reality pushed onto us is based on a society that has dictated the rules for far too long in my opinion.

A persons reality is theirs and it should be unique. If you want to believe in vampires so be it, if you want scientific proof for everything in life, so be it. A person's reality should be their own and no one should judge whether it is right or wrong.

I belive we live in a stopped time reality and we are all enclosed in a lost world

i like what lady lorelei said

for me reality is relative to personal experiences
for the same reason i believe that a clone would only be a genetic copy as his/her personality would develop differently do to unique experiences.

everyone's reality is different in the details. on the surface we all have the basics the same... we all eat to live for example. but many of us eat very different things to live depending on our choices, our preferences, our physical needs or simply even where we live.

my reality is shaped by how i view certain things and my experiences.
in reality, my realities could be something of an unbelievable nature to others if they have not experienced what i have.

Reality is what one sees and believes to be their reality. Everyone has a different reality, even though there is one reality that revolves around the whole universe.

for most reality is a state of mind,though some cannot differentiate fact from fiction,though i do have a very open mind...reality for me is anything i can touch,see taste,smell,hear or sense.

Reality is not what one believes. This has been demonstrated by those who utilized drugs which caused dramatic hallucinations. Some truly believed they could fly. The fall to their death illustrated that when one's beliefs conflict with reality, reality wins.

You don't change reality simply by holding beliefs contrary to reality. Believing you're a millionaire doesn't make you rich. That doesn't mean that one can't live with beliefs which are not a part of reality, it simply means that to do so is to believe in falsehoods.

Believing we live beyond the death of our bodies doesn't mean we will. Believing we die and cease to exist doesn't mean that's what happens. Believing the Earth was flat didn't make the Earth flat. Believing the sun orbited the Earth didn't change the reality -- the Earth orbits the sun. Believing you're fat when you're near starvation doesn't make you fat. Reality is the standard to which all belief should be measured and it gives not a single care to what anyone believes.

The question was > So how about it. What to you is reality?

Which encourages all of us to voice just that.

Yes, "all" of us. And some supply reasoning.

They most certainly do. However it's nice to view everyone's response on this question, reasoned or not.

When my reality is flipped by hallucinations I hope to have a solid base, as to what reality I will be returning. I can accept rather then believe, I can be creative with my applications to reality, I can render a sculpture set to my perception of reality. The moment someone verbally accounts for that sculptures depiction of their reality, it is one more degree away from the original subject. Substance as reality, not perceived reality. Flight was a creative endevure of man, before that people believed we could fly.. like the birds.., it needed to be reapplied until a realistic modal could be reasoned.

Imagination has choked in the overwhelming presence of beliefs, we are separated from a base reality because of this. Look at all the cultures that have been drastically altered because of belief.

I had this professor in college who spent whole classes throwing out weird perceptions of reality - it was so fun and trippy to be there...

he said "what if reality is only what you see and feel and hear and taste" and if you walk into your house and close the door - anything outside of your home which can not be seen or felt or touched - just ceases to exist." So if you close the door, then everything outside of the door no longer exists in any form except in your memory. It is only there if you believe it to be there...because there is no YOU out there to see it, it doesn't have to be there...

Anyway that class stuck with me....

I guess there is the objective one and the subjective one.

The objective one is, that if I tried to fly, I'd fall and die and the subjective reality is what I am seeing, expiriencing, thinking, etc...

Someone knows the story about the blind people who had to touch an elephant and everyone thought of the elephant differently because they touched different parts? That was the story I was told at school, to explain how people see reality differently. But whatever part it was, the elephant was still there, so that's it, the actual and perceived reality, like it was mentioned before.

This would include people who take drugs or suffer from a mental illness which makes them perceive reality 'differently.'

Then the argument could go and on and asking questions like: but what if what you are seeing is not real but an illusion? Or if that in reality our dreams are real and our life is an illusion, and the ability to create an alternative reality/universe. I had people asking me these questions and could not come up with an answer, not even when I said that if I hurt myself I'll know from my reaction, because they said, that pain is felt because it was taught or that the brain can control it and not feel it, and the discussion went on but with no end.

I don't agree much with this idea though, I agree more with the actual and percepted reality.

Those that make allowance for varied reality, are usually do not find reality to be pleasing. To allow any other reasoning to present a "reality" closer to their liking. Those that have something to gain by people accepting varied perceived realities, only need to perform for those that seek such escape from actuality. If I sold a potion that would allow a person to live in a dream.. could I market it? If a persons perceived reality is enforced by chemicals, or imbalance that is one thing, but if a persons perceived reality is based on denial of actuality, then people are likely to clash with their perceived reality. A dangerous concept indeed. Imagination is one thing, beliefs usually involve enforcing a perceived reality.

Reality is the things that exist. Simply put, the things we know exist...the things that we believe to exist.
Now, there are several perceptions of reality. Schizophrenics' version of reality, "normal people"'s version of reality...etc.
However, that poses the question...are there multiple realities, or is there one reality, and multiple delusions?

Well I think there is one reality, in this dimension anyway. What is reality...well, real things are tangible things.
Maybe not necessarily physically tangible things, but stuff you believe is there.

Would the word and concept of belief conflict with the concept of reality?

for me reality is someting that i able to accept.
if i don't,then i called it a dreams.

in deed,anything can happen if we just believe it ,but it takes pain and patient to do so.

Reality is foremost a concept. The word was created to descibe an objective state.

Through sensory input, and subjective experience, which can often be inaccurate we develop our interpretations "of reality."
Which we then attempt to convey to others, to establish and ascertain the interpretation as fact.

As far as belief is concerned, I am reserved. However I feel compelled to add that, vague sentiments on any topic do not necessarily constitute "belief."

The subconscious and its myriad of influences upon our conscious cognition must also be accounted for.
Although skeptical, and perhaps this in itself an example, I can not say that anyone has fully believed they could fly.
It is merely one thought amongst a complex network of fear and doubt.

If there is a concrete objective reality, I have serious doubt that it can be known to us or that it can be adequately communicated, curtesy of faulty sensory input, emotional filters, and intellectual ability.

Belief is not what affects reality, it IS our reality.

This topic always proves to be an interesting one :3

Do you not think that to someone with a creative mind and a positive mindset, the world looks like a much brighter place?

It is all so subjective.

I'll never forget a relationship I once had. I was so certain it was the perfect love. She was trust-worthy, responsible, caring, honest, loving, intelligent, insanely cute, curious, sharing and considerate.

Reality hit like a truck.

What I believed wasn't reality at all. Reality isn't what we believe, it's what turns out to be true. And if decades later we still wish reality had been what we believed it to be, reality goes right on being what it is, no matter what we wanted, believed or desired.

Is not reality the thought or perception of one person, yet is reality reality. for if we not percieve individaul ideas in society are we not realistic in our veiws. reality to me is thoughts ideas of my mind yet creative or not my perception is mine and not to veiw others reality as false or even imaginary.

If we meet someone and think they are wonderful for however long....then for that time I think it is reality....if/when things change for the worse then I think it's an altered reality.

It isn't reality to believe someone is as dedicated to you as you are to them, when you find out later that they had shifted their affections, their loyalty and likely their physical dedication to someone else, long before you had any clue. That was the reality. The rest was a lie. And reality doesn't accommodate lies or contradictions. That's how we differentiate truth from falsehoods. Reality is truth, whether or not we like that truth.

The name "Dena Schlosser" comes to mind. She believed she was commanded to sever the arms from her infant daughter. Acting upon her belief, she picked up a kitchen knife and cut the arms off of her baby. Did that make it a reality? Was she really commanded by God? If so, then perhaps her actions should have been rewarded. Obviously, she had no doubt about her belief. But did that make it true? Was it really God? Or was it the tumor later found in her brain? She believed it was God. She believed so completely that she killed her baby. The child is dead, that's reality.

Reality exists beyond our perceptions. If our perceptions are skewed, they are not reality. They are only beliefs. And beliefs can be very dangerous. They can be challenged, changed, discussed, reasoned... or they can be left to fester and erode the fiber of humanity as has happened so many times in the past.

I understand what you mean, but the thing is I don't agree, I'm trying to think of a word or words which better explains what I'm trying to say.

It's not about belief as such, but that plays a part, nope it's no good I cant think of how to put it just now, I'll come back if or when I think of the words.

for the most part, reality is made up of common sense and logic... if it doesn't make sense how can it be real

another part of it would be proof and existence....if you do not see someone fly on a broomstick or hunt for blood to feed on how can you believe it to be reality

if it doesn't make sense and cannot be proven it is not reality..

(ex: if you tell me that alcohol is dangerous and i don't understand how a liquid could possibly cause harm, you can still prove to me that after consuming too much death may result by car accident which makes me not call it reality because it has been proven and with the proof it makes sense)

We interact with reality by development, not belief, we can interface creativity( imagination), over reality (usually for entertainment) Beliefs are subject to interpretive what is show being interpreted to support X belief. Development is a real activity, actually demonstratable, claiming to be able to manipulate the physical with metaphysical interaction, requires (as Hell Has Wings states) a simple demonstration, one that can be scrutinized by the observer. Other wise it is a belief that is being presented, a belief is Faith without evidence.

Belief allows for the absence of hesitation, which will affect only the uncertainty that this hesitation might have caused reality.

its the world we live in and our senes of self in the world. where we stand. the people we meet the places we go all make it up. its all around us as a living thing

This is a dream
This life is a dream
what comes after is reality

how do you know this life is a dream? its the dead that dream. when its cold dont you see the warmth of your breath. and dont you feel the beat of your heart. what do you think happens when you died.

"This is a dream
This life is a dream
what comes after is reality"


this is completely possible...however it is what one may call speculative contemplation.

It is a belief with no foundation of evidence what so ever.

reality is subjective and different, from the point of view of each person. no two persons realities are the same, nor should they be.

Reality is dependent only upon itself. People don't matter aside from their perspective which may be skewed, semi-accurate or accurate to the best of their ability to experience with their limited senses.

well in psychic subjects the believe is illustrated in only in the subjects of vision, sorcery and astral visits...

its true

coz unless you believe in the things you can't go to those planes (your fourth dimension can't go to tose planes along with thine conscious)

matter is to beginer it is taught to boost them to try for it and within few minutes their subconscious get them riding on the cloud or as per the subjects...

its not the matter of fus...

coz the chaos says what you see is not real and the real is you does not see with materialstic eyes and you can feel it with thine conscious and able to see with the eyes of high conscious only ... coz the same thing is hidden in wake state with materials as whole universe and in dream planes its hidden in the light as sphere of light and dark...

there are many sphere and hyper sphere and matter and no matters even science is trying to break the cyphers of hyper plane by quantum science


reality is that even the world could not prove the shape of the universe so it hypothecated the shape and the science organisation do not say that universe is a round globe shape they say universe hypothecated as round globe shape coz its beyond the range of instrument and materialstic eyes... but your conscious makes you believe in the shape is rouind like a globe...

everything happen in each science and psychic science too is a science and if it teaches with the slogan if you don't believe in .... it is to boost to the beginer to induce them to do that way so they are at teh door of other plane fastly...

Now i say nothing is real in the world and only the planes are real and the planes are called the veils of teh Mayah, and they all are illusion... even this materialistic world... to the fourth dimesion the materialistic world or wake position is reversed position and they are slept in this position and they active in silence and close eyelids ...

the truth is nothing real evrything is illusion and real only is the point zero from whee the universe generated the creator is the real and the universe again will go to point zero so universe is not real...

Renee Descartes - `I think, therefore I am` is the most prominent literary concept which identifies this distinctions of these arguments.

1. It should be noted that it is logical to assume I am real as I think.

2. Matter abides by the laws of physics, which we were unaware of at one time. Once we became aware of mathematical truths in regard to our physical world, is not the moment items began to abide by them.

This reinforces the fact that it is logical to assume that since the systems in place to govern objects did not come from you, then these systems affect something other then you, matter.

There is a reality, there may be an afterlife.

Belief - allows us to put one foot in front of the other. We believe the ground before us will hold us up. We believe, so we can live IN reality.

Reality for me is what I go through on a daily basis. Its not the see, hear, feel, or anything like that its the happenings of the day that makes reality to me. It very well might be a dream and it very well might not be a dream but either way you look at it reality is reality.

The realities of one is not and should never be the same as anothers reality.

Dab, as always you have some very interesting posts that I will need to further look into.

Reality is based on how we perceive things to be, not necessarily how they are. The reality for two people observing the same occurance will be different.

Example:

A bomb explodes, killing 100 people.

Observer #1 - Feels the killing is justified because of religious retribution for acts unjustly commited against his people.

Observer #2 - Feels the killing of innocent people is never justified no matter the cause.

Observer #3 - Has no feeling because he is mentally retarded and does not understand the significance of the action.

Observer #4 - Enjoys the sight of death, blood and gore.

Observer #5 - Locks his family away from the violence and denys them a normal life.

Observer #6 - Seeks to kill innocent lives for revenge.

Now, as far as philosophy goes, "perception is reality", people react to their perceptions.

phe·nom·e·nol·o·gy (f-nm-nl-j)
n.

1. A philosophy or method of inquiry based on the premise that reality consists of objects and events as they are perceived or understood in human consciousness and not of anything independent of human consciousness.

2. A movement based on this, originated about 1905 by Edmund Husserl.

From the following link:

http://www.deanesmay.com/archives/001200.html

A person's reactions do not define reality either. "It's their reality" is akin to "it's their opinion."

In what way does "someone's reality" alter the truth of what exists, and what state it is in?

Archide what is the "Truth" in reality? I simply do not undertand what you are meaning here.

Doru, thanks for posting on the philsophical (sp) aspects of this. Perception might be reality but with the way we are to understand and learn deals with the expectations of things. Would that go along with the reality of something?

Your truth is not someone else's truth, it all about perception of what is truth (reality).

Let's decide first whether it is, then decide what it is.

Whether reality exists? Certainly. Everyone within this thread has agreed to that. So if reality exists, can it ever not exist?

Humor me and entertain the idea that reality may not at some point exist. How can that state be obtained?

Simply, what most view as reality, a few individuals do not share that view because their perception of that state of conciousness does not exists in their minds, therefore, that reality does not exist for those individuals.

To entertain that thought, we'd had to begin to discuss the relevance of time. In order to stop time, there would need to be some intentional act of intelligent thought.

I can not perceive a case where existence could stop.

Archide

But you could concieve of a time when your consciousness could cease to exist, could you not?

Only when the body fails to provide electrical impulses for the soul to create thought and function.

Thank you Doru.

Reality for every individual is obtained through each of the five perceptions. Your perceptions are transformed within your mind to create a conception. This is a custom made reality. Thus, if you die, so does your reality.

To address the reason why humans can not naturally fly:
I'm not going to bog down the thread with evidence to support modern physics to explain why they can't fly. I simply want to address the notion of "not believing enough".

Humans are quite limited by their perceptions and therefor their beliefs. If you wake up every morning believing yourself to be poor, which is verified by your paltry surroundings, you will continue to believe yourself to be poor. This continued belief will lead to the continued reality. If you can affect your belief, then you can ultimately effect your reality.

However, flying is not something we ever see anyone do. We are convinced by complete lack of evidence that it can not be done. Simply wanting it to happen is not good enough. Addressing the hallucinagenic drugs or psychologically afflicted, we can question if their reality includes a small spark of non-belief. In other words, those who jumped because they believed they could fly may not have believed enough. Or better yet, perhaps they did fly, but because we are so convinced that it can not happen we simply ignored it.

Reality is the interaction of matter, organic, and inorganic.. with the laws of physics.

Religions beliefs, philosophy,creeds,economic disposition, mental disposition, race, culture, controlled substances, age, education, etc. Effect only the active interpretation of ones present location in their environment.

I would suggest that it goes a bit beyond what we can detect with our senses as an individual. While a blind man may have no real concept of sight, most have no problem accepting the reality of sight for most people. So it's a 0combination of our own perceptions and the perceptions of others. That, of course, only describes perceived reality.

Reality itself goes well beyond that. In the "real" world, radio waves, microwaves, gamma waves and even x-rays are just as real and tangible as is the visible range of the electromagnetic spectrum to us. Reality doesn't care what humans can or can't naturally sense. Reality is concerned only with itself. Some animals have a sense of smell, others do not. The bits of detectable molecules in the air are no less there for the lack of the ability in some, to sense them.

In using instruments to observe a seemingly imperceptable thing, you are still using some form of perception. Yes there is a tool to record the existence of something, but you must perceive it through that tool. Once you have done so, you may create a concept, bringing those observations into your reality.

A good example is Multiple Sclerosis. Multiple Sclerosis is a disease where the myelin sheath of the neurons is damaged. It is evident on MRI's and CT scans. Regardless of the mounds of evidence, there is still a large portion of the medical community that does not believe Multiple Sclerosis to be a real disease.

I tend to believe that in the realms of praticable Magick, if you so believe it, then so be it. Yes, flying on the Astral Plane is different than flying like a bird, but is it not flying? Who is to say. This is only my opinion :).

This thread has been automatically closed for length.