I would like to see the views and thoughts of those who are truely in the Vampyric community, on how far it has come from the old days, and what can and should be done to make it better for all of the blood as a whole?
Please people if you do not believe in us being who and what we are don't put any one down.
thank you Ryu Noctem Aeternus of the House of Noctem Aeternus.
Keeper of the Veil for the Order of the Vampyre VA.
Ah :) Well, first off, all the damn RPGers. I think we shouldn't be so leniant when it comes to whom we believe are of the blood and whom are not. Soooo many people on this site are fakes about that, it kinda makes me sad haha. Umm, well, I'd say it's good for someone around every area from the community should work at blood banks or jobs pertaining to blood. I could think of a lot more shit, but yeah... maybe in later posts.
To be honest M'Lord,
I used to think the community was moving in the proper direction but with everything that will be happening soon I fear we will return to the days of old..living in the shadows..having to hide from the humans wanting to kill us...being out of the coffin to whole world..is not a remedy to be accepted..its bad enough we arent taken seriously as it is because of the damn LARP's...there are reasons our kind went into secrecy.
I really would like to know exactly what the difference is between a vampyre and a lifestyler.
Maybe its a stupid question...I was always told there was no such thing as a stupid question, so...I'd really dig some enlightenment please. I'm quite curious.
If you don't want to post it in here, feel free to send it to my inbox.
There's a gap between the outter layers and the inner layers of the vampiric society. Most will never make it past what we all affectionately call the lifestyler phase where idle curiosity and a few google searches are about all they'll ever know.
Then you have those that are a little bit more curious and have probably read their fare share of stories, internet articles, and discovered a site or two kind of like this one.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
It used to be in the old days a true house or coven was quite difficult to find, much less get into, and the mainstream world had little impact on what went inside of one. Alas, times have changed, and so has the process in many places. The mainstream world is being allowed to have a much broader role in internal affairs, and the seriousness of it is lacking as a whole.
Not that the houses can't have fun, we can all enjoy one another's company certainly. What I believe we're seeing is a growing number of the casually curious who aren't crossing that threshold into true knowledge that by virtue of their sheer numbers are blurring the lines between them and us. I would like to see the gap widened a bit without neglecting those who do wish to pursue the knowledge the oppurtunity to do so. As for the problems in leadership that ryu's conversation over the black veil revealed, that's harder to deal with.
It's easy enough to say something as naieve as the leaders should be more serious, but in truth something like that misses the point entirely. It's everyone's responsibility to ensure the mutual protection of our society without making a mockery of it. I have no solution for that particular problem aside from individual members taking it upon themselves to seek out places they feel with both benifit themselves and those around them.
In order to simplify your question misterstikki,
I found this off a website..
::so note I did not write this::
I figured it would give u a basic understanding,
RPGer: Role-Player: One who engages in roleplaying games like VtM and others. Sometimes RPGers are also lifestylers, others distinguish between their 'human' life and their role and have nothing to do with Vampires.
Also known as LARP-"Live action role player"
Real Vampyre/RealVamp: A sanguine, psychic, or energy vampyre. A real vampyre has a particular condition which includes but is not limited to the following characteristics: a real need for blood or life energy; heightened sensitivities; light sensitivity; a largely nocturnal sleep cycle. The heightened sensitivities are believed by many to include a number of psychic abilities, such as empathy, astral projection, clairvoyance, and energy manipulation. The sensitivity to light and the nocturnal body cycle are not so limiting that a real vampyre cannot be up and out during the day, it is simply an effort for them to do so.
Otherwise known as an HLV-"Human living Vampyre"
Please include links to copied information.
STABB
I am a real psivamp and I have had no choice but to live the lifestyle since what some call "Awakening". I have found out first and what it is to need to feed and how to choose a source to feed from. I am one of those people that cannot filter the universal energy to the right "vibration" that I need to efficiently and productively live my life.
I honestly, don't like the fact that people role play, and think they are ones. They shouldn't be ashamed of who they are, and just admit what they are. I am a true psychic Vampyre, and I still live in the old life style, or at least try to. It's kind've hard with modern day parents, etc. I honestly think, and I have to agree that we if there are really as abundant of a Vampyre race out there, then we could be living in the past again, overpopulating the human race, but it may take time. I'm not vary fond of that idea though, just because of what happened in the past.
I don't want to hide again, and I honestly believe that people shouldn't know of our kind just because of it.
I mean that is just my opinion.
I have been a vampire for about 15 years now and am very open on this fact to everyone. I am a mixture of a Sang Vamp and a Psy Vamp.
Real vampires? As fiction is by definition not factual, and as most define vampires by purely and undeniably fictional characteristics, the question of who are "real vampires" is precluded by the greater question of what are real vampires.
Those among us who might be real vampires would never be found in possession of such fictional traits and, therefore, would also not be found in "vampire communities" nor living as "lifestylers" and most certainly not as RPGers, all of whom emulate and/or adulate those fictional vampiric characteristics for which real vampires are most certainly not known.
Real vampires would be as they truly are and as they were originally depicted in Slavic accounts. They would appear as any other Human: no fangs, no supposed intolerance to daylight, no fear of crucifixes, and most certainly no "hunger" for blood or energy. Real vampirism has everything to do with insatiable "hunger," but not for blood nor psy energy.
- Upir'
Ok, here's how i see it,
The vampyre community is growing in numbers, most of it is because of hollywood, and the RPGers need to leave. If it hadn't been for hollywoods "vampire" we fr one, wouldn't have sooo much negative attention, and two, would have more serious true seekers wanting more of the truth of our nature.
In a way, we owe hollywood the fact that some people have truly been awakened to the life because they saw movies adn started doing research, and we don't owe hollywood for all the "false seekers" and those who wish to hurt us. If we cannot be united within the community, anyone can come in and tear us apart.
Thats what I have to say for now.
Are you saying that a vampire is just someone with an insatiable appitite no mater the source?
I am one.. I call myself a Succubus! I am a very sexual creature in bed with the one I love. I don't do the many partnered thing. I love taking energy that way, and also consider myself to be part Psy Vamp!
I have been for just a lil over 12 years..
I think it's assumed the original post pertains to sang/psy vampires, and the second post, with the statistics, was probably taken from a poll on the subject.
Many thins that vampires are what they see on tv and movies. Black cloths and guns. Fangs that would tear appart anyone. Fake. Untrue. Vampires are not different that humans. They are honored and loyal. They live by old traditions. They "royal" ones and the ones that live and "grow" with traditions will always be civil and never hurt anyoene. But they will always protect what is theirs. They hunt only to eat and always try to not harm humans. They drink for their mates as that makes them completle.
you I asked for people to respect our views not make light of them. Respect each others view I find nothing funny about what I am trying to discuss here is who we are and by putting us down for coming out is not the way to go about it. I would thank you all to have respect for our views and if you must put us down, do so in your journal not in an open forum. I am trying to get the real Vampyric Community to have there say, whether you believe in it or not, is not what I am asking but for the ones who are and do live this life come forth and have their say on what they think of the community. with out fear of being put down on a vampire site!
Again the energy thing comes into it and thus a vamp. this is what I think defines a vampire: A person or being that must feed from the energy of another living being to sustain themselves; be it from blood(Sang) or the energy(Psi).
Yes plants are living, but they are not beings so there is no such thing as a vegivamp as is suggested by the post that says anyone with an insatiable appitite is a vamp.
Gothlaz:
Good question... and you're right... no, not just any "insatiable appetite," but a very specific sort of appetite that, while fairly common in females (as alluded to in Nobodysfallenangel's post following your own), has long been determined by science to be "physiologically impossible" for males... yet fills all original Slavic accounts of who and what the "vampire" truly was.
If interested, my profile page contains both primary and secondary source historical references to such.
- Upir'
i think it is sites like this that might bring the best and worse out of the vampyre community... meaning it will encourage some to learn more and begin to understand what vampyres are and how some live... on the other hand it may encourage more rpgers and fashion vamps and people who just are looking for the lifestyle and not really want to learn more about the community
To continue what I was saying earlier...
I myself am a psy vampire. I don't follow any rules outside of personal courtesy, nor do I currently place any real emphasis on it. It's my condition, I deal with it. At some point, that may change, but right now, I have no desire to be in a house or community. I have other things to focus on before my spiritual pursuits.
While I do agree that the Insatiable appitite that is mentioned withing the source material that you present on your profile there is also the presentationthat there have been me that have proven that they are capable of the multiple orgasm. To say that only women are capable of being vamps is not only false but sexist. This is how people get the idea that women are evil.
I say also that there are more than one type of vampire and to say that the Incubi or the Sucubi are the only type would be decimenating false information.
To say that being a psivamp is a condition is to make it a diseease. It is a part of who you are and should not be discredited this way. Also you don't have to join a coven or house to take care of yourself spiritually, nor should you put this on the back burner to other things. The two are separate thing while being tied as part of who you are.
lol. Perhaps I should have put it differently, Gothlaz. I don't see it as a bad thing to be a psy vampire, I've just become accustomed to calling vampirism "the condition". Also, I didn't mean to make it seem like I was grouping joining a house with taking care of myself spiritually. I was more indicating that I haven't taken time to really explore it or concentrate on my spiritual pursuits. I've had more pressing matters to attend to (i.e. surviving. lol). I don't intend on ignoring it forever, just that it can't be one of my main "goals" at the moment.
Gothlaz:
You have misunderstood greatly what is presented in both the Slavic accounts and my profile page. No where did I state that vampires were only females. To the contrary, the only true vampires of Slavic history and Eastern Europe were... males: a unique race of males in possession of this "impossible" capacity. To scare women from them, "normal" males vilified them as undead, impotent, demonic bloodsuckers and hunted them to near extinction... hence the beginning of this fictional trait that persists to this day.
In like manner and for this same reason, in Western Europe women were vilified during the Burning Times as witches... and for the same reason: "To conclude, all witchcraft comes from carnal lust, which is in women insatiable." (Malleus Maleficarum, Question Six; 1487 CE).
In both cases, their superior sensuality was demonized and for that reason they were slaughtered.
Nevertheless, we are all free to conclude what we will... as also, of course, are you.
- Upir'
Many of those who are "rpgers" or delusional would say the same thing.And someone is always the misunderstood victim.Teenages feel misunderstood too.That makes no diff.It isnt a criteria for only Vampires.And simply because someone might not agree,says so or asks a question..or even offers their opinion,does it mean they are attacking.
And so what if they are.
So with that said,
Personally,I think that peeps have come quite a long way when it comes to tolerating Vampires.Or at least new ideas of them.It seems to me that peeps arent satisfied so much with the hollywood versions either,as It also been proven that vampires or those who claim as much,ARE human,not 100s of years old or anything of the kind.
It was also satted above that they wished everything would go back to the way it was and the vamps take over the human race...Can we look at that?
For one thing,you wipe the humans out,you kill yourselves.No matter how you look at it.
And even the math does not lie..
“If vampires truly feed with even a tiny fraction of the frequency that they are depicted to in the movies and folklore, then the human race would have been wiped out quite quickly after the first vampire appeared.
Efthimiou supposed that the first vampire arose Jan. 1, 1600, around the beginning of a century during which some of the first important modern writings on vampires appeared. The researchers estimated the global population at that time, based on historical records, as 537 million.
Assuming that the vampire fed once a month and the victim turned into a vampire, there would be two vampires on Feb. 1, four the next month, and eight the month after that. All humans would be vampires within 2½ years. “Humans cannot survive under these conditions, even if our population were doubling each month,” which is well beyond human capacities, Efthimiou said.
http://www.world-science.net/othernews/061024_vampire.htm
So why would a Vampire really hide?In reality a Vampire community is not unlike others in that it is a group of peeps who believe in something and want to live a life they feel is appropriate.
How would one go about improving that community?Well,certainly notr by daming anyone else.
I think making yourselve stronger from within would be the way to go,and expressing a little toerance yourselves first.We all get to live here,it is much better to get along with another as opposed to blaming everyone else for everything wrong in your lives.(Not directed at anyone,I am speaking in general)
For one thing,anytime a group gets together stating beliefs,whether religious or Vampiric,they are going ton be looked at through a jaundiced eye byt he rest of the world.
Well im more witch than lifstyle vamp and my link is taking of energy and dark ways … I guess when I die I will be technically a vampire as stated in the dictionary…. lookout
Thanks Dab,but Im afraid some might not see it that way..No matter really though.
But to the subject at hand..
"I just want for people to understand why we are so animate about what we are and who we are. That this is not a game for us. This is what we are and we cannot change that."
Jen,this happens to EVERYONE.Life isnt a game to anyonoe else either.They feel cannot change what they are just as you feel you cant.
And I say this not to come down on you,but to let you know that we all face these problems..it isnt something exclusive to vampires.
And what I will tell you is this..I watched a show today and the Vampire King..Don was on there.When he came out,of course there was a reaction as always of the ohhs and ahhs and the silly comments,the skeptical ones.Just like you feel you get here.But you know what?it was obvious that he had accepted a long time ago that peeps would react this way and without being deterred,he answered and addressed ALL the questions presented to him with a grace and dignity that anyone could only respect.And by the of the show? There were nods of approval and that skeptic even though still a skeptic,had respect.
He didnt demand respect simply because he felt that it was his right..he went out there live ,in front of milliions and earned it.So it just goes to show,that no matter what or who you are,and you feel you have a voice that needs to be voiced,as a single entity of a community,one must always uphold a behaviour that that community wants to convey.
First off, i am going on record to say that this is my oppinion and nothing else.When i started reading this thread the only thing i noticed was slamming of other people who may not believe in what you do. To me if you want acceptance you have to be accetping of others.Others have said it before me and have been quite realistic in their views.Secondly the use of words such as mundanes and larps is only going to get you more disrespect and intolerance.
Mundane may be a demeaning term, though it's not really meant to be, but larp most certainly isn't. It's an acronym for Live Action RolePlayer. It's THE term for someone who 'larps'.
I must say I don’t roll 26 sided dice before I take energy or dress in my blackest outfits, I also don’t hop around on a broom (so last week luves) …. I also don’t sleep in a coffin …
In the late 80s and early 90s my association with those who played live action role playing (larps) in "Vampire the Masquerade" provided willing woman who could be charmed into providing me with both sex and blood. At the same time there was an emergent group of vampires in Gothem (New York City) who were organizing the vampire community, which was a collection of role players and and sanguine vampires. The leaders of the community formed vampire houses and covens and in the interest of preservation of their concept of social responsibility authored the now famous "Black Veil". Now, 20years later, there are those who still play the roles, and those who have called themselves Vampyres, to distinguish themselves from the fictional vampires. These Vampyres are divided by a recent proclamation by one of the original authors of the BV which prohibits sanguine practice, and have incorporated that into the most recent version. These issues are complex, and are not within the scope of this forum to elaborate.
The term "mundanes" refer to those who are not in the game, and was used originally by the Society for Creative Anachronisms, which is a large group of role players who recreate history; this group is responsible for the Renaissance Faire, now found all over the country.
That said, the sanguine Vampyres who are members of this site rightfully claim their independence from role players and "life stylers" who only play at being vampires. They show respect to those who they feel have earned respect. They are real Vampyres, this is a vampire site. 'Nuff said.
Holy crapp..All this flowery talk! Mundanes,larpers,vampires..mermaids! We all call ourselves something..does it matter?
As a Community,how can you even survive if no one can get themselves past the most childish behaviour of name calling ?Or only posting when you happen to hear an agreement or something that you want to hear?
Ok,so they have earned the right to be spearated from the rpgers,or so it is felt.As was stated earlier,it seems there are very few,if any in this thread.You think working at blood banks will help the community? Good luck getting the blood out of there on a regular basis.Considering that they keep track of every drop anymore.You act like that is your only concern.And heres another thing.There have been medical tests done on so called real Vampires..there WERE NO DIFFERENCES! You ARE human.As much as you hate that or refuse to believe it,you are.
You want blood? Hell,drink from your bretheren..Do you think that maybe some Vampires dont play rp games? How pressumptuious.
Do you think that REAL vampires..even on a vamp site are going to sit around the camp fire blaming everyone else for their troubles? Three times I have attempted to turn this around and get it back onto the disscussion about your community.Have I had even one response from you ,who claim to be so concerned about it?
Nope.
Even the king himself states that Vampirism is a chosen lifestyle.
You have a penchant for blood,fair enough.
But if you cannot survive things inside your community..ie betrayal...or a little scrutiny,just how do you expect to survive ?
ok lost what I was trying to ask I guess I really need to re word what I am asking..
those who are in the Vampyric Community what are your thoughts on it? meaning how far it has came from the old days?
What do you think is wrong with it and what can be done to make it better?
After reading the post by Oceanne,
The context of how vampyres feed can be similar to the folklore and movies...however it is not for all. Alot of those that are kin are not even fully awakened anyways so those of us carrying the soul of strigoi morte do not all feed...some of us never even awaken in this incarnation...not to mention alot of us do not feed the old way..feeding to kill is in our nature just as any predator..but majority of us do not..thus perpetuating the ever growing human race..which is why we all coexist..as a culture vampyres have evolved from alot of the old ways..which in reality..benefits the mundanes..
yes I said mundane..doesnt mean I meant it in the demeaning sense..for us it is a simple term to separate one thing from the other...because whether anyone beleives it or not..there is a difference.
To be honest, this thread got ridiculously out of hand..you are all entitled to your opinions until it just becomes blatant bashing upon one another. We are all free to beleive what we want to..whether someone else agrees or not...thats the beauty of free speech my dears.
I personally find pride in my nature and I fully beleive in what I am because I have seen valid proof with my own two eyes. Whether someone else does or not-really shouldnt matter.
First off,Im going to lay something out in hopes that it ends the friggin argument once and for all.And this is the FIRST TWO posts out of the gate..one being posted by you,yourself.The First one,posted by your 'kin"Second one,by you.
Post by Xtacy....Ah :) Well, first off, all the damn RPGers. I think we shouldn't be so leniant when it comes to whom we believe are of the blood and whom are not. Soooo many people on this site are fakes about that, it kinda makes me sad haha.
Posted by you.." as it is because of the damn LARP's...there are reasons our kind went into secrecy. "
You ask ,well how is her damn post pretain to the subject about community?
I'll tell you.First,to improve your chances of being accepted as a valid community in the first place,you dont take the first shots at anyone.EVER.Otherwise you invite instant rejection and the very ridicule you say you dont want,because that is exactly what you did and that is what you got.No two ways about it.
Two,who are you to deem who is not of the blood?
You ask yourself..and I can already feel it,so dont deny.What does she think shes doing posting about our kind when she doesnt know a damn thing about what it is like!
Dont think I dont my dear,for I am a Vampire of the very worst kind and dont you ever think otherwise.Although youre idea of what that is,and mine might differ greatly.
But I do know about community,and getting along in one.
So the second way to improve your community is to not be so judgemental on who is or who isnt.Simply because they dont happen to fit your bill or come under the guise of something you see fit..After all,you didnt invent ,nor are you some royal Vampire.The rules are not yours to make.
So now again...about how my post pretains to your community?
As I tried to say before..One thing you can do is stop acting like you got the shit on the shingle and are somehow holier than everyone around,damn them.And that simply because there are thousands..yes,thousands of peeps who are into roleplaying or what ever, that this has somehow "tainted" or given everyone a reason to see you in a certain light.
That light,you have shone on yourself.
So the third thing is.stop blaming others for your own problems.
Right..thats out of the way,I hope.
Onto other ways to improve?
Again Nocturnus,you build and improve your community just like everyone else does,of course taking into account the special needs of your community.
And how you fit as a community within a community.
For instance food..yep real food. How will those in your community eat? Is being in this community going to entail that you take care of one another in that manner? The every day living?Or maybe you dont care about that,and deided youre going to be a community where the individuals take care of themselves,on their own accord and you're just coming together for the bloodletting and discussion.If thats the case,I guess I already made my first suggestions .
So four,what kind of community are you exactly?
And things have come a long way since the old days across the board for all shapes and sizes.
These days,everyone has a shot.There are no old excuses anymore to lend as an excuse.It all comes down to whether an individual is willing to give the give it takes to make that shot to the bullseye.
To be honest I'm not really sure how to answer this question.
Am I deeply immersed in the Vampire community? Not entirely... It's a component of my whole. The vampire is a archetype that suits my darker nature. We all have this dual nature, I will go so far to say that this is the truth of the cosmos.. one of complimentary opposites. However I do believe that certain indviduals are more aware of this state of duality, and of course we all make a choice to embrace either side of this duality in part or as a whole.
Going back to awareness, I can make the argument that all life is vampiric, we all feed off of something else, including each other. When I train in martial l arts for example... when a class is held filled with many high energy individuals, the power held in the room is palpable, when there are not as many of these indviduals present, the burden is felt on those of us who remain to keep the energy in the room up.
I do feed off other people, this makes me vampiric. I also feed other people, this also makes me vampiric. I'm usually the source of strenth for those around me when they need me.
People tell me I move in a vampiric manner, as in not like an ordinary man... I chalk this up to training and strength of spirit, as well as good genetics (thanks Mom and Dad Lol).
So am I a vampire? If me being fed by the higher power that created all this wonder makes me a vampire then yes, absolutely.
I am going to say something and hopefully I do not upset anyone...Please understand that I am saying this as a basic observation.......
How can we actually say that there is a way to live a vampire lifestyle when there are so many "supposed" forms of vampires, such as the psi vamp and such.....Not everyone is a blood drinker....To add to that, is it a crime to believe in something but not change your life to match that culture? People that believe in us vampires should be considered a back-up against non believers....They have as much knowledge and understanding of our culture as we do, simply because they do not live the life does not make them fakes...In fact from what I have seen many of the people that live the lives of a vampire are the ones that are the biggest fakes....they often know nothing of vampiric history and legend other that what they have seen in anne rice books.......You all are welcome to disagree as your opinion is exactly that.....your own opinion
FallenDreams -
"... many of the people that live the lives of a vampire are the ones that are the biggest fakes....they often know nothing of vampiric history and legend other that what they have seen in anne rice books."
Boy... did you ever hit that on the head! Well done, indeed.
- Upir'
Jeebs.
This thread is like watching a battle of special people battle it out at the monkey bars.
Immortal Vampires are not real.
Vampyers, or whatever the 'lifestylers' call it, is just an extended version of role playing. You do not need blood to live. You do not need to feed in any form of way in order to make your day go a little smoother.
I find the whole 'vampyre houses' cult like. Kind of like those special clubs people have where you only certain people can apply.
And how can someone 'truly be in a vampyric community'?
Is there like an application you must fill out in order to pass go and collect your Vampyre License?
I find the whole thing kind of absurd.
If you choose to live in a role that is based on nothing but folklore, then really the only thing you are doing is extending your days into a RPG life.
But to each their own.
Perhaps if the Vampire community presented a concise definition of what it means to them to be vampires it would be an article to refer people to. Grant it their are a number of articles, yet there are points of conflict in them. Some find those Articles to be A fusion of other sources(which a rarely accredited) adaptations of preexisting writings, some of which as stated above, is presented as fiction, and some that is projected as non-fiction. I can appreiate the creative application of those that publish such things, and start their own collective through such writings, those that attempt to make an Amalganation of existing publications, and the dictate to others. Really creates a confrontational, their idea, against our intrepretation of their idea..
Listless: That... right there... what you said... all of it. ;)
Apparently Saturdays are when the more intelligent and rational among us come out to "play." Nice to see I'm no longer the lone voice of such here.
As I stated in my first post here, if there are real vampires out there (the historical reality of such prior to the myriad reinventions of fiction), they would not be "lifestylers" nor into "vampiric communities" and all the cultic "orthodoxies" inherent to same.
- Upir'
I agree Upir..Listlis ..great posts.
Going further to say as far as "Vampyric communities"
This is one,and there is something thats draws us all to it.So all in all, this community is filled with all kinds.
Correction~Listless~ sorry.
No matter what,one thing is very clear.
It might not be such a bad idea to learn to communicate a bit better.And Im just going to throw all of us in that boat .
Much agreed with the realist posts made, be it as it may I enjoy what is called bloodletting it is but a sub-group in what I find erotic practice, I identify myself as a vampire only because I enjoy the taste of blood, and use it to put more into those erotic practices.
I rather liked the fancy spelling version of my name, Oceanne ;)
I find the whole 'charade' a bit, for lack of a better word, tiresome in ways.
You can have vampire 'tendencies' and choose to act on them. Which would be fine, but when you dress it up, along with yourself, and live in a way way that is based on fantasy and fairy tales, it is nothing more than a full time role play experience.
You can embellish to those who are gullible enough to believe that you need blood to survive, but do not try to dance around those who know do not buy it.
(That was a generalized statement. It was not directed towards anyone in particular.)
I don't believe a single person on here who says they are a vampire. I never have and I never will. It's all a fantasy and I don't care what anyone says to the contrary.
i am a vampire...psy, sang, and sex...i can feed from all.
i have no prob with the rpg croud as long as they say up front that they are playing a game, not that they are of the ventrue clan or some other....i rather enjoy the games myself at times, but they are ofcoarse very different.
i live the "lifestyle" only when i go to a club...otherwise, im completely not steriotypical. i have a "normal" (ie, boring) job with daylight hours, i dress rather conservatively, and i live in a small town in texas (near houston).
all that said....i do love the taste of blood when i have a donor with all the proper paperwork! lol
i follow most of the black veil, but find some of it to not be relevant to my life and experience.
To build Community Activity the first objective, of any group is P.R., Promotion requires summarization, not a full discloser necessarily (this would give access to curious malintents.) but enought that a person can clearly read the "mission statement" I see you have something on your covens page. A good start.
I have spent significant time reading this thread and editing out those posts which were unnecessarily confrontational and off-topic.
If anyone wishes to continue posting on this subject, then please do, but read and understand the first post at the top before replying.
If members cannot maintain a civil discussion which is relevant to the topic at hand, then they will have posting rights suspended.
Thank you.
Look you have your Views and thoughts on if we are or are not who and what we say we are thats fine. I don't play RPG's and I am not a LARP. those who know me know this.
I read all the time I walk the path of the Strigoi Vii those in the community know what that is those that don't look it up.
I have asked what those of the community think about it and what can be done to make it better. what their thoughts was on it. I did not ask if you thought it was real or if we are all into role playing.
so I will thank you to not stereotype all in the community as such or say we are sick in the head because we are Vampyric!
Okay... in trying to follow STABB's advice, I've read and re-read again the initial post and question here and find myself just as confused as many others here apparently are. Seems to me the problem of this thread has been the vagueness of the initial question's parameters together with the many seeming assumptions built into same that might be clear to the poster but not to the rest of us.
Help us understand what is meant by some of these terms and we shall all be far better equipped to respond thereto without further upsetting the original poster. Here follows the original question posed:
"I would like to see the views and thoughts of those who are truely in the Vampyric community, on how far it has come from the old days, and what can and should be done to make it better for all of the blood as a whole?" (emphasis added)
What is meant by "...those who are truely in the Vampyric community"? Are we talking about the original Slavic communities of truly real vampires as originally existed in Medieval times throughout Eastern Europe? (This was how I understood it.) Or are we talking about the many online "virtual" communities that have only been around a few years at most and at which anyone with a keyboard can create for him/herself a "vampyric" persona?
And what are the parameters that define those "truely in" the community and those judged not? What and who defines this?
And lastly, what is meant by "...the old days"? Again, are we talking about the actual vampire communities of the truly "old days" of Medieval times when real vampires lived and thrived in Eastern Europe? Or is the poster calling "the old days" only the recent online communities that have only been around a few years at best?
As ought to be apparent, unless or until such basic questions are answered, the follow-up question of how to make all such "better for all of the blood..." is truly moot.
- Upir'
UpirLikhyj,
I can appreciate that you want to nail down some very specific clarifications, and while I'm not going to attempt to act as a defender come proponent of anyone's particular lifestyle, it doesn't take a huge stretch of interpretation to make sense of what is being asked here.
If I might be allowed to give my own understanding, it would seem clear that since Ryu claims a deep association with the modern vampire community, both 'in the real world' and in the Online Vampire Community (as the self-defined title of that community labels itself), so those who are truly in the vampiric community would clearly be defined as being involved with these groups.
And those who are 'in', would be those who take the modernised concepts and apply the lifestyles of these communities within the bounds of thier own paths.
They are those who take part in the ritualistic feeding process, the meetings to decide policy, both within the closed doors of interpersonal and inter-group relations, and also in relating to the world which has been commonly defined as 'mundane' by influential persons.
The community at large appears to define by general consensus, but considering how many disparate organisations and agendas there are, it is unsurprising that it's hardly a hard and inflexible structure of dictates, but more of a set of opinions which people with choose to adhere to, or not.
Many will see adherence to a specific set of rules as a requirement to be involved with their particular group, so in a way, there are binding loyalties which if broken, are difficult to repair. By the nature of the beast, it is a necessarily insular community all around, but that does not invalidate their ability to choose their own memberships.
Since the object of the discussion is clearly about current social issues, it is hardly appropriate to repeatedly attempt to return to the Medievil legends and history of which you are so fond.
The old days, in this case, would be the early years of the formation of the current set of groupings and interpretations. Going back to the Seventies and Eighties, through the emergence of Houses and the development of popular games and other fresh modern media, into the now genuine attempts to build measured and respectable systems and behaviours in the hopes of attaining legitimacy as a sub-culture.
STABB,
Thank you for your words. Prior to your explanation, I would never have imagined that here "...the old days" actually referred to "...current social issues." If this was indeed obvious to others here, it was not to me. Nor would I have imagined for a moment that only those involved with "online Houses," "popular games," etc., since only the "Seventies and Eighties" of the 20th Century could possibly be regarded hereat as the only ones "truely in" the vampire community.
Apparently this was far more obvious to you and others here than it could possibly have been to One such as I. I shall therefore endeavor hereat to limit my words and views on this topic to only those strictly within the truly "insular" reality of your "vampire" sub-culture. I can now better understand why it would be considered "inappropriate" for me to have dared to opine on anything that might challenge such an "insular" view. My apologies to all; I am admittedly overly "fond" of historical facts over "modern media" portrayals whose interpretations are considered here as "fresh" rather than revisionist. This overdeveloped faculty of mine is indeed my most carefully cultivated fault.
Again... my apologies.
- Upir'
UpirLikhyj,
Its unfortunate for me to read the manner of your response to be somewhat obnoxious, but I hope you'll excuse me if I assume that this is your intention to be so. If not, then I would also apologise for reading a far more complex intent into your response.
Your insinuation that "...only those involved with "online Houses," "popular games," etc., since only the "Seventies and Eighties" of the 20th Century could possibly be regarded hereat as the only ones "truely in" the vampire community." is not what I actually said, so a reminder of what I did say was "those who are 'in', would be those who take the modernised concepts and apply the lifestyles of these communities within the bounds of thier own paths."
This does not preclude anyone actively choosing these methods of lifestyle today, and so is not limiting those who are considered 'in' as having longevity of involvement with the community, as you mistakenly wish to imply.
As I clearly stated in my opening paragraph, I am not intending to make overtures to you or anyone else from the perspective of it being 'my' vampire culture, as again, you mistakenly wish to try and infer by stating "...the truly "insular" reality of your "vampire" sub-culture."
Whatever your reasons for these misrepresentations of my words, I cannot guess, but since your own cultivated knowledge of the subject at hand has not yet been made available to us, one must wonder when you will feel it appropriate to educate us as you like to with the 'historical facts' of this topic.
Your questions were answered as I understood the answers to be concerning them, so your challenges were met and were not considered inappropriate.
While information you present on the historical facts of vampires is always interesting, it hardly relates to this topic, unless you would deign to discuss how that particular subject matter is relevant in the creation of these modern aspects of the sub-culture.
I would be greatly interested to learn what it is about the modern media portrayals that you find to be revisionist, discounting the obvious fantasy of movies and games, and those popular books such as written by Anne Rice, since these can hardly be considered as acceptable representations of the vampire community today.
Thank you for your time.
im not from the old days but i could put in some input...
i believe education of Vampyre vs. vampire would help our relationship and general misunderstanding with the mundane.
being when ever we mention Vampyre the assume we are talking about vampires.
perhaps some help from the psychology community to help explain our nature.
for me we can explain our selves better if we use either spirituality or psychology.
spirituality being the ritual aspect, Energy patterns, exchange., and etc.
then with psychology the "beast" or addiction to blood and the seemingly need to consume.
also to better inter-house relationships, if this isnt already happening, like i said im new to the community
im not as literary as adept as some of the other posts but hope i posted well.
oh, a few more things, less emphasis on the aesthetics, and more business ventures.
Well i am pretty new to this world and have yet to actually feed on anyones blood but i do however feed on emotion . I think that with the current world situation and the fast decline of most major government that right now isn't really that great a time for any race not currently know to exist by major population would be smart to stay hidden for the time .
This is an interesting question isn't it? I will qualify it with agreeing with your definition on your profile. I could say yes but this is the net. When you say lifestyle I am assuming the Goth clubs on the weekend in full dress? Some vampyrics do this too, its a culture expression with the advent of Gothdom and interest in fetish or period clothing; old world interest. Also some use old world speech, such as alas and indeed.
The answer to the second one is a resounding no. The answer to the first one would be telling although I prefer middle ground on that. Me saying yes to that would mean nothing here really. Words are never enough to explain what one knows to be true. All knowledge of this is folklore so that which is written down has come from an oral source over hundreds of years, so accuracy is suspect. If I say yes I open myself to criticism for no purpose because you know the answer.
i know that vampires are mythical creatures and do not actually exist. however, i (and who knows how many others) believe i posess some of the characteristics of vampires. like a fetish, i have an inordinate craving for the taste of blood. this does not make me a vampire.
the difference between real vampires and humans is greatly misunderstood.
mythical vampires are known to carry deadly viruses which cause mutation. if an infected human survives the mutation he/she becomes a vampire.
i cannot say i have been infected so therefore i am not a vampire
STABB,
Thank you for your reply and the time taken in doing so. While I am tempted to reply to your repeated contentions therein that I somehow misrepresented your words, yet to do so would only have my reply ending up far longer than your own and would not assist this discussion further given that, even in your reply, you still in essence have only further validated my previous post to which you took such issue. The fact remains, as I stated, that Ryu and you (and perhaps most others here) view the "vampire community" to largely consist of the online community in which the "modernized" concepts of the vampire (e.g., as a fanged bloodsucker) are celebrated while the actual historical vampire, upon which all of the former is based is not only ignored but is considered "hardly appropriate" for inclusion therein.
And while I cannot but find such a view highly ironic and incomprehensible, yet such is hardly surprising given that, otherwise, no Human could possibly hope to emulate the actual vampire of history. And after all, that emulation on some level is one of the primary draws of people to this community.
In any event, though difficult to understand, yet it is not uncommon in popular culture to "modernize" archetypes into derivative parody rather than accurate emulation thereof. Even Charlie Chaplin, the originator of his own eponymous and wonderfully comic character, only could succeed in winning 3rd Place when he participated in a 1918 contest in which he anonymously impersonated... himself.
- Upir'
Its very hard to tell the difference between someone who listens to heavy rock music, therefore, claims they are a Vampyre and someone who dedicates themselves to the liftstyle.
Its especially hard on the internet to work between the two.
Anyone can sit at their PC and say they do X things that make them a Vampyre and they only go out at night, so on and so forth.
Its a shame because there are some people out there in the community that are just doing what they are happy with, and they get over shadowed by fakers.
I think its becoming harder for such a community to progress at any decent level due to this.
Society may become more accepting but defining individuals will become ever more difficult.
Most of what is described in myth and superstition is just that. You cannot trust the written word on this topic. If I did I would believe melons turn into vampires. It is known that as far as fiction Bram Stoker created the idea of vampires having fangs because he blended the werewolf and vampire legends. Legends are just that and it is very hard in this time period to separate all that. This is the same here because as the last post said people can claim anything. Being vampyric has nothing to do with how many organizations you belong to, message boards or social gatherings you attend.
It is a bad word to use in all actuality because of all the hype from novels, films and tv. Nowadays anything historically that was some sort of creature with fangs and killed people and drank their blood and/or ate their flesh gets identified as a vampire merely by this act. Drinking blood is not an identifier because people have been doing that since time immemorial. What makes some do this, is many reasons through and including fetish but it isn't the only reason. Many have come out and used the word and made claims and people don't realize the numbers are on a grand scale. For all those that say hey guys, I am such and such there are probably at least five that never tell. There is a variance as to whether it is worth it to stand up raise one's had and be counted publically. I kind of remain neutral on this. I have my own theories and many within this community that most here do not want to acknowledge have done scholarly researches as well and come up with entirely different conclusions. So it may be we will never know what is real only what is believed. So again if I answer yes, what's the point because I am on the internet along with everyone else and this place is not dedicated to the subculture in any way, shape or form. It's kind of a moot topic.
Does one live the lifestyle now that would depend on the connotation as I intimated on my last post. So the questions posed are revealing but believed is another question altogether. Folklore and real life has been shown in most cases not to be the same when reality sets in. You cannot believe the old tales because they are filled with superstitions and some things have been skewed on purpose. I think for anyone to answer the question you must place definitions here. I know what you are asking and I have stated yes and no but who would care or believe what we say anyway.
In fairness, I have edited this post in an attempt to help the thread poster get the discussion he was seeking and not to single out any one person.
He has clarified what he meant by community and real vampires and for the purposes of this thread and this thread only, that definition is the modern concept of community which includes affiliations and organizations both online and irl. The poster is looking for ideas relevant for this sub-culture: associations...ideas for rules, membership, discussions, meetings, events, etc... Also, if you are familiar with or belong to such associations, he would like you to discuss that and how you are pleased with and displeased with them. Lastly, he asks what your ideas for the improvements of such associations might be?
If you disagree with the definition, begin a new thread to talk about what is and is not "real" and you will be given your forum there. Please don't sidetrack this discussion.
I will consider further remarks in kind to be off-topic and they will be deleted.
It is very presumptious on the part of anyone to consider someone who answers is an RPGer. This is why such topics will only cause rancor and cause infighting. No amount of fanciful wording can guise the fact that some here think their views are the only ones and right and appropriate. This is what spoils the thread because no one can answer without being insulted. My regards to Ryu for bringing in a serious thread but here one cannot answer seriously because it boils down to power plays and people thinking their researches are the only ones that have been done and they have the answers.
Yes there are real vampyres in the rave or there were but some I know have left for this very reason. It is not a matter of whether anyone believes or their opinions about it. It is a matter that some think it is ok to insult people about things perhaps they have never come in contact with. So how many...some and do they live a lifestyle? Some live a lifestyle that emulates fictional vampires because it is a way of expressing the culture and many are goth, older and younger. There are many who are not and some just like to dress and go to clubs on the weekends and may not have ever played a role playing game, but like the vampire aesthetic. I know I have never played any. I would rather write a story than play the games. Most of the games noted didn't even exist until the 90s so it is not relevant to say all are role playing given the term is modern in the last 20 years or so. There are many over 45 in this invisible community many don't acknowledge and some are in academia.
How can I or anyone seriously answer this question if people are going to try to tell others what to believe and who they are not. Openly acknowleging this here isn't approprite really. We have tried and it has been pushed aside because you know everyone here is in the know. They have all the answers even without doing anything besides looking on a website or reading information about the historical vampire which for the most part is erroneous in nature. I don't mean to get off thread but my question is how can anyone answer these questions really in a forum of this nature? It is not set up for real vampyres which is entirely different from most of what is talked about here. I apologize for this but there are some that always have vested interests here which I find ill informed regardless of how long they studied.
He did not ask about the fictional or historical vampire he asked who is a real vampyre here as defined by the existing culture which has nothing to do with New Age or the so called Pop culture...it has been around a long time and if people don't know this, it is not the subculture's fault or anyone elses that answers yes here to the first and no to the second one, unless the latter is meaning, do you live as you believe then that question would get a resounding yes.
I thank you both, I speak of the last two posters you are right my sister. My whole time on VR I have tried to reach out to the Real Vampyric Community only to be put down by those not of it.
Yes on many, many occasions I have been told that this is not a Vampyric site. I have met many on this site who walk the same path as myself that are not children or RPGers and seen them leave because of the many closed minds the site seems to breed. But I still reach out to those that stay and seek to better understand who and what we are. I think if we as a community just let the bad comments roll off of our chest and focus on the true seekers we would be better off.
As far as what I think of our community, well here in VA we are a small part, but we are respected by all in the pagan community here. I think by reaching out to others and speaking and sharing each others' views will bring us closer together and build a better bond between us
all, thus making the community stronger!
Those who sit in the shadows and let the younger kin make their own ways, I feel are wrong. If no one is willing to teach and help the younger kin then the falling of our community is their doing as well.
I feel we have come a long way from our past, but we still have some work that needs to be done.
well said m'lord... i believe that this website is however full of closed minded people, we will never escape the skeptical people all we can do is continue to reach out to others and make sure that many of our kind are not left in the lonely road of this life... what RPGer's and the many people who are skeptical do not understand is this bashing and attacks is something that we experience a lot, and we must unfortunely hide our true nature from others because of misconception and misunderstanding and it is a hard life to live, we would just appreciate the people who wish to RPG to just openly announce that they are just playing a game and not further stretch the reality of who and what we are
For the purpose of discussion, maybe you could share with us what the scope of your organization is. Do you meet in person? Do you have rules and criteria for membership? How large is your group and does it have a parent group? Do you have a mission statement or a vision for why you exist? What is it like and how does such an association help you and perhaps those that might be interested in joining?
You also state: "I feel we have come a long way from our past, but we still have some work that needs to be done."
This strikes me as being a little vague...what direction have you come? What has changed? And what work would you like to see specifically to help it to improve?
I know I've posed a lot of questions, but this site houses a LOT of different perspectives on vampires and you are proposing to discuss yours. When you don't specify what you mean, you are assuming that people understand when I assure you, many do not. You have an opportunity here to educate as well as foster discussion on a topic you began. If you wish people to respect your lifestyle as you have stated here, teach about it. I belong to organizations and for each one, I can tell you what our vision and mission are (our reasons for existing in the first place), how we conduct business and fun.
For the purpose of discussion, maybe you could share with us what the scope of your organization is
OK that I can do.
I started it 7 years ago here in Suffolk VA. for others of the Blood with like mind to have a meeting place to go and feel safe with who and what they are, to shear info and learn more.There are Chapters.
We Teach the path of Strigoi Vii
Do you meet in person? Yes the House here meets every other Friday. Other Chapters set their own Meeting times.
Do you have rules and criteria for membership?
The Pillars of Noctem Aeternus
Noctem Aeternus is an international organization,
which is part magickal order, part vampyric family and a fraternal order,
that is based on teaching and learning more on who and what we are.
We are not RPGer's.
But true life vampyres/vampires
coming together with like minded people
for a better understanding of whom and what we are.
Noctem Aeternus membership is only for the serious seeker.
Open by invite and sponsorship only.
No one under the age of 18 will be allowed.
We of Noctem Aeternus
hold the Black Veil and the Pillars of our house
in the strictest of respect.
We suggest you read the Black Veil,
and agree to live by it for yourself before
coming to us.
Our way of life is not for all!
These are the traditions and codes of ethics
for the house of Noctem Aeternus.
Anyone Who Fails To Uphold Them Will Be
Excommunicated!
The Covenant
1. Secrets
Secrets not only protect us from those that would cause us harm,
but they also bind us
and give us a common ground.
The inner teachings should not be shared with any who are not part of the house,
or ready.
Community secrets are our unity.
The outer teachings are a tool for screening others into the family
and bring us together.
Share your nature only with those who have the wisdom to,
Understand and accept it.
Learn to recognize these individuals.
(Our secrets are our safety and unity)
2. Responsibility
We of Noctem Aeternus embrace the concept of,
respecting the Human and Day side worlds laws.
Though we are an international subculture with our own codes of conduct,
we still live in their world.
NO member of the family should ever commit
ANY illegal act which will bring shame, unwanted and unhealthy,
attention to yourself, the house or the nation.
3. Minors
Some of us feel that the first signs of Awakening start at an early age.
Yes, in some of us this is true,
but the risk is to great for a misunderstanding.
Under no circumstances allow anyone under 18
to be initiated into a house of any kind, attend Quabals, undertake ordeals
or gain access to any outer or inner teachings.
4. Our Mission
All of our kind are of the same great spiritual family.
We are all parts of the spiritual organism that is Elorath.
It is our job to our brethren to see past our differences
and pull together and try and make something of ourselves.
In doing so, we create jobs for those in our nation
and set an example for the next generation.
Never force our way or will on another,
Doing so will weaken they're love for the nation,
thus making it and us weaker.
Let them come to us.
If they feel the calling they will come.
Understand we come from all walks of life and faiths.
Teach what you know and learn from them.
No one has all the answers to who and what we are.
We learn a little from each other and grow.
Our diversity is our strength.
Am I my brother’s keeper?
Yes, I am!
5. Recognition
Respect! And recognize all! Vampyre,
Dark & Esoteric Organizations and Groups.
Our community is far too small to have conflict keep us apart.
6. Creation
Support and host Quabals,
open havens, start a business, encourage and support artist,
Dance, Performances, Rituals and all
forms of creative expression which will help keep the dark flame burning.
We are here to create a culture in which we can all
support each other and thrive at the fullest of our potentials.
7. The Pact
Honor, Chivalry and Loyalty
are benchmarks of Strigoi Vii.
We seek to resurrect and express the empowering traditions
of long lost eras,
while consistently updating them for modern times.
We are all adults and should strive for a higher moral standard.
8. Respect
Always act civil even to your deepest enemy.
Resolve conflicts in private.
Confront those who have offended you
directly and respectfully.
Know that you have the right to protect your Honor, self, Family and home
but do it with respect.
When in another's land know the laws and respect them.
9. Swans
We are to have two Swans and a mate,
but this is your choice and not the choice of your mate.
You can not hide this from your mate.
Screen your Swans.
Let them understand they have to be clean.
Because it is not merely their health at risk,
but the health of the rest of the house as well.
When feeding sexually use protection.
Know that feeding is not only sexual!
When feeding from Blood makes sure the donor is clean.
Never feed from the ill, elderly or young.
Never feed from some one else's swan without their permission.
10. Problems
Noctem Aeternus is not a role playing organization,
or society of fang wearing teenagers trying to be something they
are not.
We are a secret society in that we maintain absolute,
confidentiality of our membership.
Noctem Aeternus is a neutral family within the
Sanguinarium and Vampyre community.
We as a family do not get involved in the politics of other,
organizations or games of individuals.
If it has nothing to do with the house,
let it stay where it is.
11. Progress
All members of Noctem Aeternus are encouraged to contribute,
to the family and Vampyre community with the fullest use of their
talents and skills.
There is no shame in running businesses for the benefit of the household.
Monetary stability provides power to achieve goals of the household.
We know you must start somewhere.
No matter what the job is, a job is a job.
But we of Noctem Aeternus strive to better ourselves.
Never settle for less then you are worth.
12. Family
We of Noctem Aeternus are a family
and understand that family may not always see eye to eye.
Fights happen in family, words are said and deeds are done.
What makes a family, is how we get past the hurtful things and deeds that were done,
that is what unites us.
Try to see thing through their eyes, and understand
why and what they are saying.
So you can better understand were they are coming from.
It is this diversity and open-mindedness that empowers us.
It is that view of the bigger picture that lets us see the cycles and,
commonalities of all in the house and nation.
To become blind to one of them would be to lose a piece of the puzzle.
We are of the same mind and blood, let no one come between us!
We are family!
13. Haven
Open your doors to our kin.
Know that doing so will open the hearts of others
and bring unity. Let our kin know that they have a safe place to rest
when in our land.
If we can not trust our own kind,
then who can we trust.
14. Your Word
Your word is your bond.
We of Noctem Aeternus put our Honor first.
If you say something; mean it.
A man/woman has nothing if he/she has not their word.
So, when you say you will do something; it will be done.
15. Knowledge
Noctem Aeternus is here to teach and learn.
We seek to better understand ourselves through
researching who and what we are.
One cannot learn if ones' mind is not open.
Seek out to better your self in life.
Progress is what we seek. How can
we teach if we are not willing to learn?
16. Be Aware of Moral Traditions and Laws and Codes of Conduct
All House members should know by heart the Laws of the House.They should also strive to learn any other sets of moral rules/codes of conduct they encounter to avoid offending members of other Houses and Orders. The Black Veil is an example of a set of moral laws/code of conduct, and should be studied as such.
17. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
Doing so may cause misunderstanding.
18. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given appropriate verbal confirmation.
If they tell you they don't wish to to be with you in such a manner, have Respect and understanding.
Never force yourself on an unwanting individual.
19. Do not take that which does not belong to you.
If you can not get it the right way it is not meant for you!
20. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have used it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
21. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
22. Do not harm little children.
23. Do not kill humans or animals unless attacked or for your food.
With humans if you are left with no other way and your life is on the line, only then may you protect your self and take a life!
24. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.
Remember Anyone Who Fails To Uphold Them Will Be
Excommunicated!
The qualities of what makes up a Noctem Aeternus member:
Every seeker is a unique experience and there are certain qualities which,
Distinguish a Noctem Aeternus seeker,
From other Sanguinarium or Vampyre families.
1. Realists in that Vampyrism is more than just a fashion statement.
We physically do not turn into bats or mist,
Our bodies do not last forever.
We are human beings who have been modified on an astral level.
2. Ambition and realizing the world is not an easy place and willing to challenge things in your life.
You must realize that you are your own person and if you want to get things done,
in this world you have to do them your self.
3. Individual, you are not a follower, sheep or seeking membership to a Vampire fan club for self-gratification or just looking for something to belong to.
You are seeking affiliation with Noctem Aeternus for self-growth and to achieve Xeper
Individually and as a family.
4. Magickal ability.
No fear but respect of the occult and a skill at ritual and energy work.
Many members of Noctem Aeternus are encouraged to be powerful and skilled in many paths
(Santeria, Buddhism, Gnostic, Christianity, Paganism, Setian, Tantric workings, etc.
5. Support of the family.
We want people who are dedicated and loyal to the family.
Who want to see the success of the household and put it first amongst all other
Occult or Vampyric organizations.
6. Humbleness & Patience.
You have to understand and be willing to make the investment in the family as we are making one in you.
It will take time before you formally get initiated.
If it does not work out there is a reason.
Even if you are an "Elder" in another house.
We respect those willing to take the necessary steps
like all others that join the family.
7. Seeking one's Dragon within.
Seeking one's ultimate state of existence and realizing that pursuit of
this state is never completed and that the journey is the experience.
(Striving for perfection.)
8. Willingness to learn and educate.
Contribute to the household with your knowledge
And learn from the others.
Keeping an open mind.
9. Business sensibility.
Understand we all have to eat and pay our dayside bills.
Noctem Aeternus is no place for freeloads or people who sap others.
10. Love of aesthetics
Within ritual or going out, all of Noctem Aeternus,
Should be well dressed and presented.
Aesthetics are a powerful tool of communication and atmosphere in the scene and ritual.
We are a decedent and fabulous groups as well as we are serious about who and what we are.
11. Serious.
We of Noctem Aeternus are seeking people, who take vampyrism serious,
And are not interested in seeing life as a Role-playing Game.
We of Noctem Aeternus are students of the vampyric life,
And wish to explore every aspect of this dark gift.
That we may better understand who and what we are.
12. A healthy ego.
We do not want people, who are ego-manics,
But have a healthy ego or realize they have a big one and are willing to work on it.
13. A good sense of humor.
The ability to laugh at things and one's self.
14. The ability to face and acknowledge.
Face your fears, problems, and prejudice and forgive honest mistakes.
We do not want guilt ridden people who hold on to things and can not move on.
15. Willingness to share.
Be open with others with what you have found,
In the right time and place - and to be silent when it is not the right place and time.
How large is your group and does it have a parent group?
We grew from 8 members to 382 member world wide
Do you have a mission statement or a vision for why you exist?
Why we are here to have a safe place teach and learn so we have a better understand of who and what we are.
A place were we can be our self without having to hide.
What is it like and how does such an association help you and perhaps those that might be interested in joining?
what is it like well the way I see it, is as a big family.
but thats how I see it. I will have other members post what they see it as.
You also state: "I feel we have come a long way from our past, but we still have some work that needs to be done."
This strikes me as being a little vague...what direction have you come?
What has changed? And what work would you like to see specifically to help it to improve?
From only being seen as monsters to being able to walk around ( not every were ) but in some places and be who we are. also opening up Night Clubs and bars for The Vampyric community. From having nothing to what is out there now books about our ways and so on. what I would like to see happen as far us as a people is open communacation with other houses and covens, that we can have a better understanding of our paths.
Thank you for asking I would also like to put out there that my coven here on VR is where we meet other and get to know people and see if they would be good for the real house.
Look most including I feel that we keep getting thought of as RPGer's and we are not that is what we are saying we are not them we are sick of people thinking that all in the community started off playing such games when it is not true.
Most if not all in Noctem Aeternus play such games, and if any one has that is fine as long as they know what is what. that is why most in my house say what they say.
RPgers do not make up the whole community yes they are apart of it but most are just that RPGER'S Not Vampyres!
those that are Vampyres are sick of when we come out to try and reach out to others that most who only know of the RPGer's are quick to say oh he or she is just another LARP or RPGer, so we try and keep our self from the game player do you understand now or do I have to get more into it?
Exactly how would your group help some one like me, who feels the rush when taking in blood, however has limited knowledge of vampyres, other than stated in folklore.
Seriously curious.
We want to..to talk,to listen.But It makes it tough when not one,but two break out of the gate biting like that.It puts everyone on the defense..or at least some.
There have been a couple of suggestions made,yet from what Ive seen you simply havent responded.
I am not going to go out of my way to address each and every jab people are throwing here, as I originally intended, but instead, in my own way, try to answer the question as best I can without dragging too far off topic. So forgive me if I cross a point already made or ignore those questions brought up since.
My first experience with the vampire "community" abroad took place about eleven years ago. I was already part of a circle in my local area prior to that, though our ideas as related to the subject were in need of refinement. Initially, I was not seeking enlightenment so much as pursuing playmates with whom I could congregate, sharing my personal philosophies, and seeking so-called donors. I wasn't the least bit interested in the opinions of other practitioners, until much to the surprise of my under-developed ego, I discovered that there were in fact some truly fascinating folks addressing the issues I'd wondered on for some time. As I recall, the conversations had back then were much the same as now as it relates to tribalism, and the idea that forming extensive networks was a thing to be desired, and ultimately, the thing to do. Granted, the networks already existed, but it wasn't enough for the more real-time types whom didn't have access to big cities, and I was certainly one of those unfortunates.
The Sanguinarium, for example, had already been established several years before this point and loads of information, tips, and general guidance in the form of essays and support boards were available to anyone with the desire to see them. Even before any of that came along, there were still published lists spread in the club scene and occult communities by which the like minded chose to connect as standard pen pals, yes, snail mail. And while I did not have the pleasure of being involved with that last bit, or the club scene until later on, I was still vastly intrigued by what had presented itself. It was on that note that I devoured every precious kilobyte of data I could stomach and began to absorb and evaluate, from a distance, what I was witnessing. I distilled what I could and applied it to my own practice, and impressed it on those within my own circle that cared to listen.
Meanwhile, as is ever the climate, more e-lists and groups were popping up than I knew what to do with, and nearly all of them spoke of the same thing: Family. The word was turned out more than a Spanish altar boy, and for a good while, I liked the direction. The idea that people so diverse might one day be so closely hinged together was a romantic one, but over the months and years that followed of watching people talk, and interacting where I could, the reality I began to see spoke to the contrary. Political in-fighting seems to be more popular than unity I guess, which just goes to show that all vampires truly are only human, after all. I don't need to go into great depth here, as any of the readers having an actual stake in this topic most likely already know what happened, and is still happening, to groups with ambitions of creating and maintaining togetherness and tradition - dropping like flies as they normally do. Mind you, I do not mean to imply that such an intent is necessarily an ill-conceived one, though it frequently turns out that way, but rather that I have no faith that those whom claim the title of vampire will be able to resolve their differences anytime soon outside the boundaries of isolated groups.
A main issue that seems to be a poisoning factor, the white elephant in any community board or network, is the diversity of definition to what each considers a vampire to be, or not to be, for that matter. Drawing lines in the sand has taken it's toll, and it happens in large part, because of the need to pigeonhole vampirism to the end that the definition might better serve and apply to individual assuming that title. Everyone wants the word tailored so that it includes them, and conversely, too loose a definition cheapens the feeling of exclusivity and undermines the surety that one is a vampire or even truly part of their chosen group to begin with, much less a Family.
It's a problem, but one that I never had much of an issue with since my definition of vampirism has nothing to do with being exclusive, and rests upon the foundation that it is a practice, not purely a condition, that all can aspire to and work with to the desired ends if properly instructed. I've always see vampirism as an occult technique, a branch of witchcraft, that can serve to cultivate a specific and special consciousness based on philosophic principles duly drawn from the archetype of the vampire. In attaining such a consciousness, I see it as then plausible to refer to oneself as a vampire and not just a dabbler, and that is as far as the cut off goes. The long and the short of it is, I don't have to like you to admit that you are a vampire, but I also reserve the right to reject a definition of vampirism that I view as too skewed, and thusly, reject you as a vampire as well. The point is, that while I acknowledge the validity of differing positions and believe in the need for objective standards, too harsh a glare becomes a gunshot to the foot in the tie-together game.
My proposition then, and it's purely a personal one, is that those with influence and an eye towards "community" be very careful with how they play with the word "vampire". For me, to define a vampire simply as someone whom engages in the ritualistic practice of vampirism is straight forward enough. To bring to the table of modernity the definitions and cues of ancient times is a flawed gesture at best, as the vampire-practitioner of this age has very little in common with the vampire of lore. Things change. Those having aspirations to draw others together for more than a private puppet show need to do away with the personal biases and urges to manipulate the basic format. Such modifications are welcome if you are purely a close-knit group leader, and even more useful if you are a solitary vampire, but the imposition of those personal ideas on others has no place in the repertoire of a successful unifier.
To tie it all up, I think the present state of the "community" resembles an overburdened welfare system. In attempting to be more open, and to take responsibility for how the world will see this subculture - which is noble and worthwhile - I fear that overexposure, no matter the motivation, has actually been a detriment to it. It has opened up networks, which were at one time reasonably guarded and well filtered, to emotional leeches only concerned with satisfying a phase, who effectively wast the time and energy of otherwise enthusiastic and productive community members, which does nothing but diminish the quality of output and intake over all. To me it seems better to not be so open about the information pertaining to affiliations, and to make those who want to be involved in such a community really work to be part of it. Sink or swim. If we are truly concerned with the future of these networks, than it is my opinion that while we must be cordial to onlookers and help where we can, that too much philanthropy in this regard will only serve to fuel the bandwagon mentality and lead to a further recession of the better qualities in those whom are sincere in what they seek for more than a couple weeks. To embrace egalitarianism in this would be a mistake, I think, so let's just let the water seek it's own level. It's just better to do what we can to make it good for the ones who are there, than to waste too much time trying to welcome all the newcomers. To those seekers that make it, then all my blessings, I wish them luck. However, if they do not, then I see no reason to sugarcoat the obvious fact that, as demonstrated though their own failure in action, they possibly shouldn't have been there to begin with.
There is much more in the way of issues that could be dealt with, but since the most prominent to me seemed the ones I've spoken of, I think I'll leave it at that as far as suggestions go. This is all just my opinion after skimming through, so I hope it was of some value.
- D
badassvamp the way i see it is that you just do not participate in anything regarding the black veil which is fine if you do not believe or wish to participate in that but... it is also comments like the one you made that can alter the future of the vampyric community, it is that which makes people skeptical and fearful. this thread is about the concerns of the future of this community and its comparison to how it was old... if someone was to view your actions of irresponsible blood drinking their whole perpective of this community could be changed and as it is stated in the black veil your actions reflect this community.
The extreme really do take things too far, a fine example is shown here. so this makes a case why those who identify as vampires need to have not only a set edict, (what the author of the thread post) they need to have a set summary. Their is always someone who takes liberty with any concept, making it their own.
very true however it is same with every community you have the good, the bad, and the ugly no matter where you go there will always be the people who disregard the guidelines that are not put in place to annoy you or to limit you, but to ensure the safety of yourself and others
So who is to say someone has taken something too far? When someone is outstanding in a fringe sub-culture, who is to say they are too far out?
I have lived the so called lifestyle for years now. I don't go into the daylight very often.... the reason is I work night shift. when you get used to it it just becomes part of you. I have always been a club guy so there again......all nights..LOL
The world to me seams better at night, more beautiful and mysterious...not to say sun rises are not beautiful I just prefer the night....
MrD gave a lot of insight while keeping to the spirit of the thread. I especially appreciated the "white elephant" commentary. If you skipped past it because it is long, I encourage you to go back and take a look; it's worth the read.
Wow....I must say first of Ryu, you definitely have a way of bringing the "best" out of everyone. lol
To answer the question,
I have made myself apart of the "community" for a little while now although I have been walking this path of trying to understand myself for some time now.
Do I identify myself as a vampyre, yes.
What can be done to make our community better...
Where to start, where to start.....
Well to know where we are going, we have to know where we have been. I feel that alot of our younger brothers and sisters just see the facade of it all and dont take the time to learn its inner workings. They dont ask the questions neccessary to understand what it took for us to get here.
Houses, covens, clans, whatever you identify your family.....They didnt just pop up overnight. Someone had to have the foresight to see the necessity for organization.
With that said, organization is the key. Not to necessarily prepare yourselves for an us vs them, but in order for things to flow smoothly.
I know we call ourselves families but do we truly act as such? Yes, many of us have a very Alpha Dog mentality but is it all about looking out for #1 or is it about helping all to thrive. If we all strenghten one another, we would be able to do alot more than what we are doing now.
What are the inner teachings that must be kept so secret?
How are humans modified on the astral plane so that they become vampires?
What is the special consciousness based on philosophic principles that can be cultivated by the ritualistic practice of vampirism?
Firstly, I would imagine the inner teachings work quite the same as the inner mysteries of any esoteric sect worldwide. You can't know unless you're an adept, or what have you.
As for the exact modification on the astral plane, few (if any) would actually know how to perform it, as few truly understand the condition itself. Whether the cause is disconnecting oneself from some universal source, or something else altogether, it's likely to be an incredibly difficult process, if there is and was ever a way to make the change intentionally in the first place.
Most all initiatory groups in the occult world - and those centered on vampirism are indeed a part of that world - usually have something akin to trade secrets regarding their initiatory practices, methods of training, philosophies issued in steps congruent with that level of membership, and various networking secrets for the sake of security. It also frequently entails the trust between members that such a membership, and personal tales imparted within the folds of that relationship, will be kept confidential. This is not at all unusual, as I'm sure you can think of many societies that work on that basic level without too much trouble.
Vampires are humans. The "astral plane", in my opinion, is merely another facet of the mind that people tend to have better access to when meditating or employing other means of goal-oriented visualization. In this, a person could "modify" themselves through means of self hypnosis, though as is common practice, such an alteration is in need of regular reinforcement by the same methods, hence the ritualistic engagement and nature of vampirism itself.
The special consciousness referred to is an amalgam of what is called Dayside and Nightside consciousness, which address both the practical aspects of objective living and the more fantastic elements of human creativity, respectively. The perfect balance between these two is referred to as the Twilight condition. It is this condition that one aspires to ultimately achieve, and a necessary part of this is an identification with the vampire archetype, as you understand it, and more specifically an acknowledgment of it's predatory nature, as well as other notable characteristics that a practitioner may or may not choose to assume based upon their unique goal set. It is applied psychology with a desired end to affect a "transformation" of the individual. The psychological exercises employed to induce this state are hardly uncommon ..the emphasis within the techniques is what makes the difference here.
MrD I am pleased to see that someone on the site other then members of Noctem Aeternus know this. I can only say hats off to what you know thus far.
So what you're saying, Mr. D, is that a state of vampiric exaltation is self-induced? One can achieve this through meditation, but thereafter certain "prompters" in one's own psyche can signal the predatory stance?
What he is doing is reiterating things that don't necessarily belong to vampyrism and come from clear before the 1900s with words changed a bit. Read theosophical writings and even before. Nothing wrong with that but it doesn't make it so. I know Michelle Belanger uses the vampyre archetype but I don't personally like that train of thought. Just because someone says these things doesn't make it so and not everyone believes these things in the vampyre community. I usually hear this from the Kheperu / Stregoi folks. There are a myriad of ideas about the vampire subculture and origins and beliefs and what you believe is your business but one cannot make bald faced truths out of it to declare they are or whether they live the lifestyle. An aside, I am not saying he is wrong either, just saying it isn't the only viewpoint.
Well I would also imagine the exact viewpoint varies with different groups within the community as a whole. Michelle Belanger and House Kheperu likely have similar, but not the same, views on the origins, goals, etc. of vampirism and the community itself.
So it could be reasoned that one way to be more effective as a community )(not just vampire either) would be to lose the whole elitist doctrine concept?
Like I mentioned before the Post put up about the group, is not appealing to any but those already sharing identity with the group.
I am quite confused actually, is the Coven leader seeking recruits, or to build on an existing communities definition.
Some how I feel the vagueness is working against your group.
Addressing all those that are confrontational to your beliefs, shows that you draw a lot of fire, perhaps if you engaged more selective out reach methods, like waiting until people come to you.
I assert completely that to become a vampire is a choice. The recognition of the sole responsibility of the practitioner for their actions, which is further developed and understood through regular exercises and inquiries - much as can be seen in various Eastern insight methods, is foundational in forming the vampiric world view, which is a delicate and very personal balancing act between the two forms of consciousness I've already described.
To claim that it is something uncontrollable is naive at best, and irresponsible scapegoating at worst - the latter, usually being engaged in by those that seem to, in keeping with their moral conditioning, have a need to be in the right, seeking to represent the predatory aspect of vampirism as instead some sort of friendly parasitism or symbiosis. And while I do recognize certain benefits can be achieved and blessings imparted through a more respectable connection between predator and prey, it is my humble opinion that until one has let go of the need to come up with excuses to Feed, they can never come to full terms with the vampire as a meta-being, and most importantly, as the highest realized expression of their own identities - for those whom such an identity it is appropriate, that is.
The "prompters" are an inescapable part of the predatory animal which human beings are. It is in the nature of men and women alike to exploit one another for gain, and in many instances, even thrive upon that dark impulse. That is not to say that this is all the mankind is, as no doubt our ability to be compassionate and helpful is ever present, and is an obvious evolutionary advantage, without which our survival could not be insured.
However, this innate urge to cannibalize is the very soil from which the vampire births, and as such, must be better understood and cultivated if one is to successfully assume that role. The vampire archetype is a complex extension of this urge involving additional features as varied as the motivations of the practitioners themselves, each finding their own Dragon in their own time. Hence, coming full circle to the beginning declaration, the enhancement and tuning of this predatory stance, innate as it is, requires that a choice be made to accept this as a part of your nature, and joyously so. This concept will need to be reaffirmed ritualistically through psychic draining and other exploits until it becomes second nature, and you reach your virgin goal, which is the delicious knowledge that you've attained what you worked for, and that you make all the rules ..in this part of your world at least. :)
There are a thousand roads that lead to the same end here, and what I've vaguely described in this is no more than a drop in the bucket, driving at my own personal impressions of the matter. I understand there are many whom dislike my view of things, but my words are meant only to represent me, and no one else...
Anyway, we should all just relax. There is the distinct possibility, after all, that this whole thing is no more than psychological masturbation to begin with ..and I'm cool with that.
Mr. D:
“I assert completely that to become a vampire is a choice.” This is integral, I think, since the vampire must be invited in. Own your choices, I say, and be the most powerful vampire. Vanquish your maker, if they’re an asshole.
”vampiric world view, which is a delicate and very personal balancing act between the two forms of consciousness I've already described.” I’m sorry, what was the other world view?
“the vampire as a meta-being, and most importantly, as the highest realized expression of their own identities.. . “ I like this. It resonates (for me because of superhero status complete with angst).. But I’m not sure what it means to you. What is a vampiric meta-being?
“However, this innate urge to cannibalize is the very soil from which the vampire births,” This is very exciting, as is every statement that follows, in it’s full pre-meditated aspect, but . . . is this vampiric or merely joyous assertivness?
I am in the vampire community, i was awakened 1 month ago through the help of Lord Ryu. My thirst is now controlled easier through the teachings of Lord Ryu... and I live by the Black Veil religiously.
I just live the lifestyle of a vampire. I do however love the taste of blood & have a special friend that we share blood together with. I can also get physic energy.