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It's a simple question, but I'll leave it up to you to decide whether or not it has a simple answer.

To what level do we respect our Elders? I will define Elders as those who, through their efforts, have earned a certain degree of implied or stated elevation in the community at large.

Different vampires have different ideas concerning this type of etiquette, so I'll consider it natural if you don't all feel the same way. Some people choose the rank and file route, and others that respect is only earned on an individual basis from person to person.

Do you think the community at large is more productive if those in leadership roles are recognized as having such? Or are you generally happy with how things are? I do hope some of you have some passionate ideas on the subject.

- D

Respect should be to anyone.

Respect for me, has levels I guess.

I respect those who earn it, no matter if they are a year older than me or 20 years older than me .. and even younger deserve respect if they can show they are worth it.

However, for those who are truly what I call Elder (such as those passing say 70 years or more), then I give it to them automatically. My degree of respect in this category can either remain the same or increase, based on their actions.

Everyone, no matter what the age, is entitled to a certain amount of respect though. It is up to them to make that respect increase or decrease.

I'm not a vamp, so I can't comment specifically about the vamp community, but generally speaking, I give respect to those who earn it.

If someone's running around, calling themselves a leader and/or an Elder, then I expect them to act like it. If they're just using their rank and/or title to have an excuse to be a jackass, then they're certainly not going to earn my respect.

Now those in a position to drastically affect my life are a slight exception. For instance, my boss at work...even if he's a raving idiot (which thankfully he's not), I'm going to give him the minimum amount of respect for his postion that is needed in order to keep my job.

It does have a simple answer. respecting anyone , elder or official or parent or some guy on the street or even a child is universal.
everyone deserves respect, some earn more than others but something most forget is no matter how much respect you earn, if you ask something of someone you shouldnt or that is wrong or imoral etc, then you forfeit all respect in that regard. not all respect all together .

also respecting someone does not mean having to agree with them or obey without question.

i think it is all about the respect.. for in my eyes that is all there is and there for it is also ettiquete

For this I shall quote from my own profile:

"I don't pre-judge.
I treat everyone as my equal until proven otherwise. At that point you are treated accordingly.
I respect those who deserve it.
Don't ever mistake respect for a station or office as respect for the individual.
I respect the office of the President of The USA.
Don't mistake politeness for respect.
I'm polite to everybody."

Our Prince, Cancer, has earned my respect personally.
The Master Vampires (of which there are 7) have my respect for the stations they hold. Several have my respect personally.
This doesn't mean I will follow blindly. If I disagree with something said or done I will let that person know. Privately. Out of respect.

Im going to take the question at face value.
To me an Elder is someone who has helped establish a community. Has shared their exprience in the life style and is respected as such. Often Elders are really the teachers and are the foundation of any community.Anyone can give themselves the Title of Elder and many take it upon themselves. I think how the community/House is seen and run, how its members act is often an indication of how good the Elders in it are.

respect you elders theve been on the planet a lot longer and are way smarter then you weather they chose to use their intellige or not

very true sky. a nation or community is only as good as it's people. A leader can make a lot of difference but in the end good leader or bad the people will save it or bring it down just as well as any leader can

I give anyone limited or basic respect when I meet them. By this I mean I respect them as individuals, for their age, and or role in society.

Then I actively try to get to know them, taking what gossip I may have heard just as background chatterings and striving to find out more about the person. As I begin to know more about them my respect for them either grows or diminishes according to how the appear or act publicly and inter community dealings and or in our own interactings. I take into consideration that what I may have heard or seen could just have been a bad day or that there were events working in the background to make them act as they have. But if things continue to go down hill so does any respect I may have had for that person whether they are considered an elder in the Kin community or not.

if one has honor in ones self and for those around him or her.

I dont think you are speaking of elders here on this site or any of the VR staff. I think you mean The vampire community in a worldwide sense. For me I automatically respect anyone in the community. There are alot of members of our community that are so active keeping the community alive and together that they deserve their respect. Then there are those that manipulate the community and they are known as leaders, and elders. I respect them to a point... But do not follow their manipulations.

Respect to a certian degree should be universial...

I give EVERYONE a certian degree of respect... False respect seems to run rampid here and in the community at large..

I believe that:

#1 A certian degree of respect/ openmindedness should be given to all (even if they do not return the favor, you don't have to agree with what they say or do and still have a shread of respect for them as a person)

I believe to have respect for all, but mostly my elders. I was taught to respect my family matriarchs because they have lived a long hard life. As to other people I am not sure sometimes it depends on how they treat me. I also believe to get respect you have to give it in return.~NFA

It seems a few are, in fact, confused as to exactly which elders I refer to. I am talking about the community abroad, but if there are people on this site whom you consider your Elders(being that they are part of the community), then they are included as well.

- D

One thing I would like to point out, why do whe have to only respect does who did somethign big in this world? what about all the normal people as well, I believe we should not only respect in their own level our elders but as well as everyone around us, in our daily lives-past adn future. Everyone means something in this world so everyone deserve their own bit of respect. A lot fo people in this world only see or give respect to thoes who oversurpass life, is why so many people die with not even passing thru this life.

Elders should be more respected.

I know tat in a way, still everyone should be respected as equal. If not them only the " " olders would only have respect and " " in a way would feel always welcome by others. I think everyone should be equally respected, of course there is the fact that everyone knows that well one person knows more than another and that fact is not taking away from him.

Agreed. Respect should be given to EVERYONE, but especially to those who could either help or hinder your growth in the community.

Thats what I meant , just takes me a bit longer to explain myself ^_^

Perfectly alright.

Like I said I try my hardest to respect all. No matter how their age is. I believe respect is also to be earned as well.~NFa

I respect someone until they say something stupid. It's not my fault if they're an idot and I most certainly don't have to respect someone with the mentalitly of a rock.

imho, respect should be given equally to all regardless of rank or age until the individual proves their level, then they either gain or lose respect. What someone older than us says should be heard more clearer until they prove to be foolish

I wouldn't really take respect from someone even if they acted or w/e stupidly, see what if one day that same person who did something to lose the respect from one now has come up with the lates w/e of the era. Then what? would you then give it back? it would seem them no more than hypocrisism, onless that person does what I like I dont respect him/her when he/she is the main atraction then I will respect him. Thats why I would rather respect everyone at the same level and at the same time giving them their own level of respect, but never losing it in the process.

Respect is earned. Etiquette, is what seperates us from the lower mammals. Props to you for diferentiating the two.
On another level...
So much atmosphere I feel is lost nowadays. Part of that is because so many of us fail to pay each other these small courtesies that make the little things so memorable.
Not to mention the rap/gangsta credo of "Represent and Respect" has taken away the poigantacy and sincerity of respect truly given.

I believe you should respect everyone, unless they prove to you that they dont deserve it.

While I do believe in respecting everyone to an extent, I give the most respect to those who display behavior deserving of respect. Plain and simple.

If you act like an asshole, I'll probably call you on it. But if you're cool, then we'll get along fine in a mutually respectful relationship. Why should it be complicated?

I give respect to everyone until such time where the respect I give is no longer needed towards someone.

- Sin

Respect is earned....regardless of age, regardless of status. To get respect, you must give it...sincerely.

How do you all actually define respect? Is it just mindlessly agreeing with someone regardless of what they say, simply because they are older/of a higher status than you? I know people like that, although personally i think its just sycophantism and not real respect at all. for me, respect is allowing someone to have their own beliefs, ideas and way of life without trying to change their view, and still liking them as a person regardless of whether you agree with their creeds or not.

I have to disagree there. Respecting anothers view does not neccessarily mean you can't try to change it, that is after all, what discourse is all about. But, trying to force someone to accept another point of view is disrespectful.

I respect eveyone in different ways. Show me respect and I will return it. Tell me that something I do bothers you and I'll stop doing it around you. On the other end of this, disrespect me or treat me like shit and watch out. I'm a grown man and will not be treated like a child or like the dog that you like to kick. Do that and face the wrath that I keep so well pent up inside of me.

Everyone deserves respect who shows respect of their own.

I believe you should respect everyone until they show themselves unworthy of it.

To be called Elder and carry the respect that title offers you must first be that elder, not only in acheivements but in actions toward others. You must uphold yourself and those you carry with you at all times. In respecting others you in turn get your own respect. Elder is not a title given but rather earned.

I believe you should respect everyone then the respect will be given back.

Respect and manners to me are two entirely different things.

I believe I have the manners to be able to treat all I meet in a way that is mutually comfortable to us both, If they decide to act like an idiot I'll just pat them psychically on their head and wander off, whether real life or online, and will interact on a level they can understand.

The few I respect I hold in high esteem, for their knowledge, actions, personal achievements etc, might not agree with them, might not even like them, but that doesn't matter if they have a quality I can admire.

In the community I come from we have many 'elders' some better at what they do than others. Out of good manners I would not diss them in their own places, doesn't mean I think anything of them though. Then there are some whom I admire because of the people they are, lol, and they all know, I think, which they are.

Here at the Rave the set up is way different.... the ratings system here dictates who gain the ranks, so no I don't 'respect' the ones here as the term would define, becasue the Elders here are in a different category to what I am used to, but I hope I treat Whelp and Sire with the same degree of good manners that all should be treated with. Obviously though, as I am in this place, the acknowledgement to the rank of Sire/Elder is given as that is the way of things here.

There are some here I have respect for in varying degrees, just by reading posts and thinking, yeh, this one has something worthwhile to say irregardless of VR rank.

For myself, I couldn't care less if I'm respected or not, those who do perhaps see part of me that others do not, and that is for them not for me to comment on.

Everyone gets the same basic respect from me in the begining, elder or not. after all age is just a number. the basic premise of respecting elders more automatically is simply the assumption that they know more or are wiser because of age.
In reality age does not equate wisdom or common sense and neither does experience, i.e. you can stick you hand in the fire 10 times but if you never think about it truely then you will never get wise and stop no matter how much experience or how old you get.
so again age is just a number, respect everyone and then work from there

Nastya echoes my thoughts, but I shall add my own thoughts.

I too recognise an ELDER as one who through their ACTIONS has earned respect. Elder does NOT mean the amount of mouseclicks you make. Also, ELDERS do not forcibly induct members and then THREATEN punishment for not joyfully contributing. Have you ever met an indentured servant who was JOYFUL?

I have met Marplots here that are worthy of a better name, even a few as ELDER. I have met those with a more "royal" rank who have not the wit of the lowliest Whelp. I do NOT give respect to the Status as such, but to the QUALITY of the PERSON.

I NEVER respected Aleks because he was a weak leader. And I do NOT buy into the notion that their is nothing fair among Vampyres. In another community, I am of a high status - and I worked VERY HARD to achieve it. I made mistakes that I am STILL trying to fix. BUT, I NEVER, EVER disrespect those UNDER me by asking blind obedience.

I DO respect intelligent people, and MOST of the Elders here ARE intelligent and so they have my respect in that. I suppose the military has it right: "You respect the PERSON, NOT the UNIFORM".

In the Community to which I belong, I immediately correct people who call me by a title. I do NOT believe in titles because titles imply ownership. Those whom I hold "sway" over are the very same that do so because I have earner THEIR respect.

So, VR does things its way, and I follow the rules. But, even Vampyre history shows that in time, those who are martinets will Burn.

I am pleased to say I have yet to MEET one here.

Do I respect the person who conforms to all things? No, because invariably their exposition reveals the parroting of minds greater than their own.

Do I respect the conformist who has thought it out? Yes, without reservation.

Do I respect my Enemy? Yes, if she or he has shown that she or he shall stick by convictions but is NOT afraid to have discussion.

It took the courage of a LEADER to write this. It takes the qualities of a LEADER to understand that one who QUESTIONS rather than be a yes man is the most valuable asset to any organisation.

Be well - just in case.

I have a great deal of respect for the posts that have been made, especially the last one. Thank everyone for making this such a productive thread.

- D

i respect everyone unless they have shown that they don't respect me or others.

For me, respect is earned, not bestowed. Courtesy is something different to which I show everyone.

An elder, older person, gets as much courtesy as as a younger individual. Respect is given to anyone who earns it through action or attitude that shows wisdom and respect of others.

The difference for me is that I'll help anyone and show them proper courtesy, if it's something I have the knowledge to help with. Someone I respect I will follow, not just offer assistance.

That doesn't mean I'll follow them blindly. If I think they're wrong I'll tell them, privately and politely. If it's against my moral standing or personal code I'll refuse, again politely.

i will respect them if they ar worthy but i will always follow a good leader or lead myself

I think anyone who earns respect should get it. No matter what their age, if they have shown that they are deserving of respect, I'll respect them.

There's varying levels of respect. I respect everyone at the very base for being people and living their lives. Anything more needs to be earned for me, unless they are already in a position of power higher than myself, then I respect them for the responsibility they shoulder.

As for this community and the question of whether it runs better if people are basically assigned a title like 'elder' rather than earning it?

Hmm, am I a bad person for not caring? Or do I not care because it seems to be a moot point? The Prince is doing his job, and very well. So are the rest of the staff. It works. Good. I'm tired and I don't want to go to work. What?

ive always said that my elders deserve respect until they abuse it..then they will be treated with the samn concideration they have shown me...
just because your older doesnt always mean your wiser...

A wise person respect his friends and his enemies, but, it's easy to destroy and hard to regain this respect.
About the other word....in this times, it is meaningless.

Myself... I willl respect a person until it is apparent that they no longer deserve my respect..... I dont think anyone should have to endure mass amounts of bs and just simply turn the other cheek..... respect cuts both ways

Respect comes from different levels. Everyone does deserve basic respect and courtesy, no matter their age or station in life. However, there are those that lose respect due to their actions. I, personally, choose to respect others until there comes a time that such respect is unwarranted.

I'll personaly only give respect to someone who deserves it...but a little difficult to if not impossible to judge a person by what they do on the internet.

I respect each person but in different ways... everyone is entitled to be respected whether they deserve it or not.. because a fool does not deserve less respect because he himself is the one who chooses to remain on the path he is on.. they may have different views about the things going on their lives but that does not mean we have the right to not respect them for the decisions they make which they themselves will reap in the end..

now some people do that extra effort to prove themselves more worthy of respect.. these are the people who know that respect not only should be shown to others but to themselves as well.. show me a leader who has no respect for himself and I will show you a man who will lead his group into ruin..

We all have that option to earn a higher level of respect.. this comes from those who have trust in our decisions as well as from those who know that we are honorable.. from our faces, actions and words come forth an aura full of conviction and strength.. people can easily see those who can actually command a deeper level of respect..

Respect should go both ways

I posted a response to the respect issue that everyone seems to be addressing. Etiquette seems to be left out, however. Could someone clarify the question for me?

Respect is a state of personal high regard toward someone where etiquette is a system of rules governing proper behavior. One can have respect toward someone and have terrible etiquette. One could also have terrific etiquette toward someone they don't respect.

My boss for instance is a good guy. I like talking to him and he's decent but he's a terrible manager. I like and respect him for the person he is but I don't respect his ability to manage. That doesn't mean that I don't follow proper etiquette when dealing with him AS a manager.

So what, exactly, is the question here?

Although I believe in mutal respect and the road to getting there, it often doesnt turn out that way. Elders in society seem to demand respect the second they are confronted with you, and yet very few give that same respect in return. We look to precidence rather than principle.

I think you got a good point their moon.

As much as I know of respectingyour elders, I also believe that mutual respect is best. If someone does not respect me, then don't expect it back.

In a way you got a point yet when I read that to me sounded more like is my way or the highway bob-dont like it bite me. Something like that, not taking away that you got a point rather I think if someone treats you poorly at first try givin them a chance maybe they will turn around, never know sometimes they do, most times they dont.

I have a healthy respect of Elders
I know they are not perfect
and I understand the reality is not everyone likes everyone
But respect of those in authority is only proper.

In a way yes, but then again all you are given phraise to are the ones who stand ot from the crowd. What about everyday normal people, I think they deserve even more since they do not stand out and yet remain in the battle.I hope I got that right..

I will always respect people as they are in this thread.

These are the kind of attitudes, for me, which will change the world for the better, even if it's starting with a small piece of one family's life. It still goes beyond that- I bet every person that day had a smile as they walked away. The knock on effects of treating other people with just a modicum of decency and yes, respect, can uplift many more in the grand scheme of it.

And respect does not mean civility. Though, I will be civil to people I despise, simply as it's the conversational manners which I have been taught.

Do I respect the 'Elders' of this community (vampire as a whole)? For the most part, yes. But even so, early in my searches for information, I found a number who were as offensive to me as their abusive hypocrisy could allow. Their work deserves my intellectual respect, but as to their persons, they need to realise that they are becoming totally subsumed in thier own propagated ethos.

How can I respect those that exclude others simply for asking questions and disagreeing with them?

Do I deserve any respect? Only the reader can answer that. I probably have lost the respect of people I care for through my actions in life, yet gained it from others from those same acts, but, what it comes down to is whether I respect myself for the things I have done.

I show respect to those who demonstrate repect.

My respect is earned, but I am polite to everyone I meet regardless of my opinion to them. If I cannot at least be cordial to the person, I simply avoid them.

I always give out the same first impretion to everyone. I am always cordial and/or polite.