The Ultimate Vampire Resource and Directory

i have seen other threads dance around this a bit, but i dont recall ever seeing this hit directly.

what is the soul? what is it made of? is it actually eternal?
that said, what is eternity?

this thread is going under the assumption that the soul is a real thing, and if you dont believe that it is, thats fine, but im not interested in seeing a chorus line of people saying how they dont believe....im seeking not just those that DO believe, but also those that can give an opinion about the questions above.
Thank you

~W~

Alas... i'm afraid i can only answer a few of those questions... when i die, i shall attempt to come back to this thread and let everyone know =) if it is still around.
Eternity, i believe, is whatever happens next.
I don't know if the soul is eternal, but i doubt it, considering that all energy dies off unless plugged in to an alternate source, like every robot needs a power source.
I don't know where the soul resides, but i think it is in the brain, which we know is the reason why we're able to do what we can, and without it, we are simply bodies of energy floating around unaware of even where we are (probably).
the reason i feel that way is that people have had parts of their brain removed, and as a result, became extremely different people

very good first comment. one of the reasons i asked was i was curious how other people felt the law of entropy might effect the soul if the soul is eternal.
~W~

I believe the soul is very much connected to our entire body. it can become a tangable thing but as we die it is "transported' for lack of a better word, to another existence. I agree that it does not last forever, as it is a form of energy, as I think all life is, it will disintegrate and dissappear.

I think another good question is, if it does dissappear, what is the point?? Is there a renewed source of souls or was there only a certain amount created in' the beginning', and once they are all gone, what then???

I also believe that trauma to the body and mind can disconnect the soul and create irrepairable damage. Creating that 'dissociated' feeling many people suffer.

The soul is is evolved consciousness... energy.
I have posted this exact comment many times before and I will state it again for this thread as well.
If you really want to discover the truth of who and what you are for yourself then do a simple test.

Just sit down, close your eyes and clear you mind. Start off by noticing your physical body (outside features).

Fact: the idea that you are aware of your own body means that you must be more than just your body... right!!
Now start applying this ideology to other areas.

Become aware of your emotions the fact that you are aware of how you feel means that you are more than your emotions.

Finally turn your attention to your thoughts, you will notice that idea just pop in and out of your mind without you actively thinking them. Because you are objectively aware of the thoughts in your mind, you must be more than your mind.

You will realise that whatever part of yourself you focus on there will always be a sense of awareness that is somehow above and beyond everything else.
This inner awareness or inner essence is the real "you".
It is the basis of all your experiences past and present, asleep or awake, "dead" or "alive" and YES it is eternal.

It is the consciousness... It is Your Soul. This is again proof positive that:

"You don't have a soul, You are a Soul... What you have is a body."

I too believe that the soul is, perhaps in a more literal way, energy. But rather than an awareness I see it more as a specific frequency, more of a distillation of being rather than the whole of it. It is the atom of awareness, not the entirety.

If the soul is eternal, then we have to believe in past lives. We can't be so egotistical to assume we have the soul first. As for what happens when we "die", I feel that the soul is still here....whether it goes into another being or not I do not know.

With the paranormal and it's overwhelming evidence, it is hard to say that souls do not stick around at times. But do they or can they move on? I'm sure. Whether it's another plane or dimension, it is good to ponder, but we might just be simply reincarnated.

my belief is that the soul is the deepest sense of yourself that being said i also believe we live many lives reincarnation for lack of a better term and one becomes aware of these things of their true soul with meditation to reach a higher plain of existence each soul at one lifetime or another will eventually reach this and thus guide the rest of the souls lifetimes incorporating many different religious views to reach a state of nirvana if you will

Try this line of thought. If the soul were part of the brain, then think of it as the part that makes a person what they are, what they do and how they think. Take it a step further, all of us have our own traits, gifts, faults and overall personality. Some people become trained and disciplined killers such as those who join a government army. Others just kill. (There is no way I want to debate the rights and wrongs of this or the psychology of human behavior) I just want to make a simple point that if the soul exists in the brain, then it defines who we are, what we can do and how we should conduct ourselves in any social structure. As for what exists beyond this, can we only speculate and dream of possibilities outside of our own mortal being and wonder about the possibilities of what we can become, achieve and where it would be.

Human souls
On the Human Soul by dr. rainer tanie



For Aristotle understanding is separate, and not the act of any body. Hence it is not united to a body as its form. Aristotle established that understanding, alone among the acts of the soul, took place without a physical organ. Plato however distinguished between intellect and sense, yet attributed each to an incorporeal principle, maintaining that sensation, like understanding, belonged to the soul of itself alone. And from this it followed that souls of brute animals are subsistent.



Sense is related to sense objects as intellect to intelligible objects. But the intellect understands intelligible things without the body. So the senses must grasp sense objects without the body. But the souls of brute animals are sense-souls. So they are subsistent. The argument is the same as it is for the intellectual soul of man.



In the intellect things which are naturally incompatible with each other, can coexist.



Since souls of brute animals have no activity which is intrinsically of soul alone, they do not subsist. Because everything acts as it exists. Now it has been shown above that brute souls are not the per se subsisting things which only human souls are. So brute souls pass away when the body does, while the human soul cannot corrupt unless per se, that is from within itself.



Augustine says that just as the soul sees things in visions in the imagination at a time when the body lies unconscious, not yet quite dead, so it is when the soul is wholly disembodied by death.



The soul at death frees itself from flesh, and bears virtually in itself, both the human and the divine: the other powers, all of them mute; memory, intelligence, and will far keener in action than before.



A disembodied soul does not feel joy and sadness due to bodily desire, but due to intellectual desire, as with angels!



So what is said, that man and the other animals have the same kind of origin, is true of the body; for all animals are of earth. But it is not true of the soul, for the soul of brutes are produced by a certain material force, whereas the human soul is produced by God (the seed of man and woman does not cause the new man to be, but provides only matter for God to act on).



Therefore the soul is the inward man. It is the intellectual part which is called the inward man. The sense soul in the body is described as the outward man.



For the intellect is the subject of the quality we call knowledge and undergoes change from ignorance to knowledge by virtue of its capacity to receive the intelligibility of things into itself.



If then intellect were united to the body as its form it would follow, since every body has a limited nature, that the intellect would have a limited nature! In which case its knowledge would not extend to all things, in the manner explained above. But this is against the very notion of understanding. Therefore the intellect is not united to a body as its form.



Now it is obvious that the soul is the prime endowment by virtue of which a body has life. The soul is the ultimate principle by which we conduct every one of life’s activities; the soul is the ultimate motive factor behind nutrition, sensation, and movement from place to place, and the same holds true of understanding.



It can be said, therefore, that the soul understands just as the eye sees; but it is much better to say that the man understands with his soul. The body is necessary for the activity of the intellect, not as organ through which it acts; but in order to supply it with its object; for images stand in relation to the intellect as colour in relation to sight.



But the proper activity of the soul, which is to understand by means of images, cannot take place without the body. For the soul understands nothing without imagery, and there is no imagery apart from the body, as is said in the De Anima (of Aristotle).



But imagination is a power belonging to the sensitive part of the soul. And so if it is wrong to say as some do that these powers remain in the soul after the dissolution of the body. And it is much more wrong to say that the acts of these powers continue in the disembodied soul, because such powers have no activity except through a bodily organ.



Powers of body-soul compound:



Sensation and nutrition.



When compound corrupts such powers do not remain in existence. They survive in the soul in a virtual state only, as in their source or root.

But the activities of the soul are dissimilar, because man understands and the brutes do not.

For mind, embodiment means immersion in the real, being-in-the-world, as Heidegger says.



It belongs to the very essence of the soul to be united to a body, just as it belongs to a light body to float upwards. And just as a light body remains light when forcibly displaced, and thus retains its aptitude and tendency for the location proper to it, in the same way the human soul, remaining in its own existence after separation from the body, has a natural aptitude and a natural tendency to embodiment.



Yet we should bear in mind that the nobler a form is the more it dominates physical matter and the less is immersed in it, and the more it transcends it in activity and permanent power to act.



The form of something understood is received by the understanding, not materially and individually, but rather immaterially and according to its universality, otherwise the intellect would, like sense, know only singulars, not immaterial and universal forms. Therefore intellect is not united to the body as its form. The intellectual principle is incorruptible, it remains after the body’s corruption, not united to a body.



Man is free to make decisions otherwise counsels, precepts, prohibitions, rewards and punishments would all be pointless. To clarify this, recall how some things act without judgement, so a stone falls to the ground; all things that lack knowledge are like this. Others act from judgement but without freedom; thus the brute animals. For a lamb perceives that a wolf is to be fled from natural judgement which is not free; it does it by natural instinct not by deliberation. But man acts through his ability to know.



Take breathing away and the union of soul and body breaks up, not because breath is an intermediary but because it is a disposition fitting the body for the union. But a kind of spirit, in the sense that breath is, is a means of movement, being the primary means by which it is imparted.



Besides, if the absence of something breaks up a unity it would seem to be a medium between the things united. But when breathing ceases, the soul separates from the body. So breath, a particular kind of subtle body, is a link uniting soul and body.



The soul is united to the body as its form, it cannot be united to it through the medium of another body. Breath is disposition fitting the body for the union. But a kind of spirit, in the sense that breath is, is a means of movement, being the primary means by which it is imparted.



There are reasons for thinking that apart from the intellectual soul there are other souls in man essentially different, namely, the sensitive and nutritive souls. But the intellective soul is incorruptible, whereas the other kinds of soul, the sensitive and nutritive, are corruptible, as was made clear above.



Plato laid it down that there are different souls in one body, even distinct in their organs. He attributed different vital activities to them, saying that nutrition was in the liver, desire in the heart, and knowledge in the brain. Plato’s view would be sustained granted that the soul were united to the body as its motor, as Plato held.



But given that the soul is united to the body, as its form, it seems absolutely impossible for several essentially different souls to inform one body.



First, the animal would not be just one animal if it had several souls. A thing is just one thing only if it has one formative principle giving it existence.



It is the soul that holds the body together, not the other way round.



We must assert, then that the soul in man is one in number, at once sensory, intellectual and nutritive.



The sense-soul does not owe its incorruptibility to itself but to the true fact that it is at the same time an intellective soul. Therefore when a soul is merely a sense-soul it is corruptible; when it has both sensation and intelligence it is incorruptible.



The human soul being so lofty, is not a form immersed in physical matter or wholly swallowed up by it. So nothing prevents it from having some non-bodily activity, even though the soul’s essence is to inform a body.



The angelic minds have simple and blessed understanding not deriving the knowledge of God from the visible world.



But nothing is more important in angel or soul mind than its intellectuality. Soul and angel have the same final perfection, namely eternal bliss. Hence they are beings of the same type.



Dionysius says that by the goodness of God human souls are intellectual, and enjoy a substantial life that cannot decay.



Anger against vice comes from intellectual appetite only, not sense appetite.



The powers of the sense order are not in the soul alone but in the body-soul compound, as stated above. So aggressiveness and desire are in the will, the intellectual appetite (push).




The words love, desire are used in 2 senses:



Sometimes they means passions, with some arousal in the soul. This is what the words are generally taken to mean, and such passions exist solely at the level of sense appetite.



Terms love, desire can be used to denote simple attraction, without passion or perturbation of soul and such acts are acts of will (intellectual appetite).



Each power of the soul is a form with its own nature and its own natural bent, so each by natural appetite reaches for the right object. Above this is the animal desire which follows knowledge not because they are needed for the activity of this or that power, but because the animal simply likes them.



There are reasons for thinking that the soul’s powers should not be classified under five general headings, namely, vegetative, sense, appetitive, movement in place, and intellectual. For the powers are spoken of as parts of the soul. But only three parts are commonly assigned to the soul, namely the vegetative soul, the sense-soul, and the rational.



The soul has five kinds of powers as enumerated, but there are three kinds of souls and four modes of living. Plants are purely vegetative. But there are some with sensation as well but without movement in place, motionless animals such as shellfish. Some again have the power of movement from place to place, the higher animals namely, which need to move if they are to obtain distant things which their life requires. And some living things have intellect along with these powers, namely men.



It is already established that all the soul’s powers go back only to the soul as their source. But certain powers, namely understanding and will are related to the soul taken on its own.



Infinity of God’s and finiteness of human intellects:

For to God it belongs to understand all things without any process of enquiry. Thus in the same context Boethius says that reason is peculiar to human kind, intelligence to God. All the acts Damascene lists belong to one power, the intellect. First it simply knows something, and this we call intelligence. Eternity is to time as the motionless to the movable. And that was why Boethius compared understanding to eternity and reasoning to time.

Other animals are so far below man that they cannot come to know the truth which reason is seeking. Man, on the other hand does come to know the intelligible reality the angels know, but in a less perfect manner. And as the angelic power of knowledge is not in a different general category from the rational power of knowledge, but compares with it as the finished to the unfinished.



Mind is the essence of the soul.

All the powers are said to belong to the soul, not as their subject but as their source, because it is due to the soul that the body-soul unity can conduct such activities.

The intellectual soul comes closer to God’s likeness than lower creatures precisely in being able to attain to the fullness of goodness, even though by many and diverse ways – and in this it fails short of higher beings.

Some of the soul’s powers, namely intellect and the will, are in it by virtue of its surpassing the entire scope of the body, and so powers of this kind are not said to be in any part of the body. Other powers, however, are common to soul and body together…in those parts of the bodies where they are fitted for the activity of the particular power.

It is essential to memory to be a treasure-store or place of conservation for thoughts. Yet this Aristotle assigns to understanding. So in the intellectual part memory is not a power distinct from understanding. Understanding originates from memory in the way that an act proceeds from a habit. In this sense, then, they are equal, but not in the way that one power is equal to another.

Separate soul is far removed from materiality, which exists potentially only.

When I hear the word soul I think of the human consciousness. The ability to be aware of one's self. The brain most of the time isn't aware it's part of the body and that can lead to one thinking the consciousness is something different than the body. like say something we've named the soul. The brain is an amazing thing and we still don't fully understand it but everything we are, everything we will be is in the brain. So our consciousness is our "soul."

I will concur with CrimsonEclipse, with the addition that once the indivual is lost, to the the 'otherplace [[whatever it is]] the consciousness will become part of the greater whole.. The One.

Interesting questions, but, if the soul really exist, then in which part of the body it reside? The heart or the mind.? the body as a whole or is just the energy that run thru the vein. There are many theories about the Soul, but all together can not prove anything. I worked for a Major Hospital and Yes, we do Open Heart Surgery, and also, we have a Psycho Unit. So, The nature of the Soul is to be a part of the imagination of some, and they know how to use it to gain prosperity and fame.

does it matter where it resides, it does.
it makes each of us unique: and that's what makes us US. I think.

"it's been undeniably dear to me i dont know why, when every other part of life seems locked behind shutters: i knew the worthless dregs we are, the selfless loving saints we are, the melting sided dice we've always been"~Shins.

i'd say we're all a melting pot of everything, only our actions are oriented to keep ourselves from being what we see as 'bad'.

you summed it up there Cabrion, "..from being what we see as 'bad'." emphasis on 'we'.. as it's our perceptions that connote right and wrong, formed by our preconceptions and Life experience: our uniqueness.

To me, and this is just to me, the soul is first of who you are and who you will ever be. Second, it is a "library" of sorts, if you will. What I mean by that is, over our past lives, we have learned many lessons. Thus, they are stored here. Know those times you were about to make a mistake and you heard that "voice" telling you not to? That was just a bit of subconscious knowledge of your soul surfacing of a past mistake, to inform you to not make it again. I think that once our "library" has gained all it needs, we then move onto a eternal enlightened existence.

Just my thoughts. Hope I made sense.

The soul is our immaterial selves that will never die. As long as energy exists, so will the soul. As long as planes of existances exist, so will the soul.

Since energy is in everything, it shouldn't be too hard to accept that energies can evolve and advance in some way over time.

Perhaps with each lifetime we have, we carry on whatever energy was built up from a previous one, which triggers memories at times depending on the influence and intense emotions carried, because energy has stored it in our incorporeal selves, much like someone said above, like a library.

It would litereally take something with a deep emotional tie to open up that memory door within us to remember.

when it is said that the soul is energy....well, in nature energy will become less coherent in time due to entropy.....so is that a way of saying that the soul dies?

the body is matter...matter cannot be destroyed, only changed. still....the body does die.

if the soul is energy, then one can say the same....that energy cannot be destroyed, only changed.....but can the soul die then?

just wondering out loud

~W~

weather one believes the soul to be a corporeal entity, or a bio-electric "spark" . I offer the middle ground. The more relaxed, and untethered one is the more the soul nourishes the mind, and body, , and and in turn gets exercised.


though one must be ever so careful to avoid investing ones soul in a sink hole endeavor

i believe we all do have a soul. past lives prove that. and if it is eternal or not i can not say.

It strikes me, that though my natural brother and I share many physical attributes, what makes me ME, is the essence of the topic here.. the ID, that sense of self, that makes each of us unique...

*cough cough* maybe the soul is an energy source, rather than energy in storage *cough cough*

a spirit,a soul..is nothing more then a living energy.
like nebula's in the galixy...swirrling mass of brightly
breeding and bursting energy.Only here we have shells
to keep us from using all our naturl energies,or to keep
us from excaping the earth.Even again,cells run by energies.everything runs on energy,or takes or makes energy... either by itself or taking it in.
THE nature...
of the soul.
whatever its creation is ment to be.
no one really knows that ones.
it's like asking aything as to 'why' its here.

Reading through what everyone has said and their own opinions of what exactly a soul is was very interesting.

I see a soul as Your energy what makes you, You and that it does reside in your heart. That which makes you shell (body) be alive and able to function. Our bodies are just temperary hosts for the Soul to live in for this lifetime.And when the hosts dies the Soul is released back into the Universe until it finds it's next Host.

There have been many tales told of people reincarnating and finding their other half decades later.

How else would you explain past lives then?

In my opinion the soul stay in the layer of consciousness and the soul is the prana which realises the consciousness that soul exist.

Case example, you dream you are flying, your mind will start working around it your consciousness will take you to this tour by growing your senses of flying in the dream or astral. there too you will find that on that plane you exist till you are flying. I think this existance is beyond your consciousness which giving currents of existance to your consciousness. this is beyond the mind too. and senses are only the tools.

the soul is also our unconcious not just our concious thoughts it resides in all of us though we don't know what happens after we die the soul is eturnal because after we die our soul floats around for a few hours or days then is reborn into another human being past lives are a part of us even if we don't remember it in this life our soul remembers what happened before. though i do know that there is an after life but we don't know what happens while we are the but thats my veiw

ill accept past lives. but it doesnt answer...does the soul die?

does reincarnating add energy to it?


if its an energy source, then what powers it?

the sun is an energy source, but we know that nuclear fusion powers it...and it will run out of fuel someday.

will we?

thoughts?
~W~

This is a thing ive been wrapping my head around. It sounds as if we're saying, the source of our energies may come from say, the sun. If our sun dies, then does that mean our soul energy sources are doomed as well because we live within this solar system?

I have a theory that since we are made up of everything in the universe, we are part of it, that our souls will never truly die because energy is constantly being created and destroyed, much like stars are always created and destroyed. Death/chaos and rebirth/creation. I don't believe there's a true ending.

The universe is proof of that.

I believe it depends if you deserve your soul to live on or not. Eternity is granted, or cursed- depending on your viewpoint, to those whom deserve it.

Should a murderer receive the same treatment after death as someone who spent their entire life helping others?

It can also depend on your religious beliefs.

The soul should have subconscious memories that teach them in the new life how to behave in a situation they've encountered before.
I say subconscious because VERY few are able to remember everything from their past life. Even then, it takes years and years of figuring out.

am sorry, I have to completely disagree with you lass.

there is NO arbiter of the soul.

we die, it doesn't...

Severus, very nicely put!

And, I believe that the soul is a form of energy. I disagree slightly that it makes us who we are - experience and upbringing have a MUCH bigger part in that.

However, just as the genetics of a parent determine if we have blue eyes and blonde hair or brown eyes and black hair, I DO believe that the energy of the soul has the ability to carry a bit of who we have become in to our next life.

Perhaps the level of your soul's energy determines how much past lives might influence choices you make in this life.

After all, while we have all heard that little voice telling us NOT to do something, how often do we really listen?

Only question that I have, is where does the soul go in between lives? I believe it has to go somewhere, in it's energy form, however, I don't believe in a heaven or hell in the standard Christian terms of these places.

Perhaps it's just another form of existence? Souls just flutter around "in purgatory" not really aware of much, as they lack the bodies to provide them with sight, smell, hearing, etc. Until they find a new place to reside.

Of course, with this theory, one would have to ask, how we are growing as a race - where would all the new souls be coming from? And, this would also raise the question, how far and how long can a soul survive in this state?

Well in my opinion Soul (prana) does not die and it fly after the death alongwith its consciousness (both gross consciousness, subconsciousness, slept consciousnesss and unconsciousness) and concentrate self to somewhere else. (as light we become much deeper we feel ourself.)

as to what powers 'it'.. we do.. as energy.

sorry.. forgot to add that.

I 4 one dont belive in it BUT here is some info for u. A doctor for hospice not that many years ago did an expeirament. He placed a dieing paiteint, bed and all on top of a scale. He then documented that at the exact moment that patient died the scale bed corpse and all became 3 oz lighter. Which wuz what he belived waz the soul leaving the body. Which maybe it just had something to do with the corpse voiding its bowels or something but since EVERYTHING wuz set up on the scales somehow i wonder if that actualy wuz the case.

cuttcollector,
I have seen the experiment you mentioned, But it was not preformed on a dying person... to my knowledge it was a Astral Projection test.
The subject went to sleep normally 3 times without attempting do leave their body and then on the fourth time they attempted to leave their body. Durring that final test they recorded the lost of 3oz of body weight. The test was repeated again in different orders and the results again showed the 3oz loss in weight. Body mass, temp and all other things they tested remained normal. They have not been able to determine what would have or could have caused the difference yet.

An interesting result, worthy of more study but at this point it's not really a smoking gun.

The Soul is called: Atman - not Prana.
There are two types of energy; Manifest, and UnManifest.

The Soul is pure and is always with G_d. It does not change, act out, evolve, fall to evil, or anything else that you may think of it. It is eternal. It was never born nor does it ever die. Period. It is said to reside in the heart.

There is no "we", "it," "I,"- little or large. Anytime, a person makes a statement of Duality or separation, they fall to ignorance. It's called, Maya. And that's what people really mean when they say that, "it's not real." But it goes further than just a statement. It's ANYtime you make a separation from you and something or someone else. It's a trick caused by Maya.

Many of us can say there is only one G_d but the real trick - realization - is to learn there is only ONE.

i believe no one truely will know
the answers you what you are
asking. the world does not work
that way and we may never fully
understand it eather but i do believe
when die i will understand then.

I don't know if there is a Soul, and I don't know if I have one... I don't even know what it's really for if I do have one... But it's strange really... I believe in the after life, and Rebirth... So I guess we all do have souls... So maybe the soul is for keeping you all together... Maybe...

The soul is like the battery pack of our existance. For it hold the memories of life and it's emotions that we have ecpierenced. The soul is energy of our life. Remember this is based on my feeling and reasoning for others will hold their ideas. Yet the soul holds no explanation or scientific explanation.

Billy the Just...you took the words right out of my keyboard..:)

The seat of the soul is the Heart and remains a part of the Whole...the One...we are in our own right, an extension of the Creator's Grace...but the soul is what connects the spirit and the body together as a combined entity on this physical plane....as Severus puts it so well...we are souls that have bodies.

The heart has its own neural network and sows the seeds of our emotional brains. What is in the heart also shall the mouth speak and bring forth. What is the soul? Only ask...what is in your heart? ...and therein, the still small voice within...shall the Divine be met in the reflection of the soul's conscious extension...the self.

the seat of the soul is a fist sized muscle in our chest?

ok, but does that mean if you have a heart transplant that you lost your soul?
~W~

I absolutely love Severus' post. I believe the soul is attached to our body while we are here. I also think that if you can astrally project - that is suppose to be your soul traveling outside your body, . so I think your soul would go on after the body has died.

I must say, I believe animals have souls also. Dogs for example, are so much nicer then humans! They don't judge, or lie - they love truly unconditionally and trust without hesitation. Perhaps all living things have souls, and they move on after death. Sometimes to be reincarnated and sometimes perhaps get stuck here for a while and somtimes on to summerland.

THE presence of the divine Adjuster in the human mind makes it forever impossible for either science or philosophy to attain a satisfactory comprehension of the evolving soul of the human personality. The morontia soul is the child of the universe and may be really known only through cosmic insight and spiritual discovery.

The concept of a soul and of an indwelling spirit is not new; it has frequently appeared in the various systems of planetary beliefs. Many of the Oriental as well as some of the Occidental faiths have perceived that man is divine in heritage as well as human in inheritance. The feeling of the inner presence in addition to the external omnipresence of Deity has long formed a part of many religions. Men have long believed that there is something growing within the human nature,
something vital that is destined to endure beyond the short span of temporal life.

Before man realized that his evolving soul was fathered by a divine spirit, it was thought to reside in different physical organs — the eye, liver, kidney, heart, and later, the brain. The savage associated the soul with blood, breath, shadows and with reflections of the self in water.

In the conception of the "atman" the Hindu teachers really approximated an appreciation of the nature and presence of the Adjuster, but they failed to distinguish the copresence of the evolving and potentially immortal soul. The Chinese, however, recognized two aspects of a human being, the yang and the yin, the soul and the spirit. The Egyptians and many African tribes also believed in two factors, the ka and the ba; the soul was not usually believed to be pre-existent, only the spirit. *

The inhabitants of the Nile valley believed that each favored individual had bestowed upon him at birth, or soon thereafter, a protecting spirit which they called the ka. They taught that this guardian spirit remained with the mortal subject throughout life and passed before him into the future estate. On the walls of a temple at Luxor, where is depicted the birth of Amenhotep III, the little prince is pictured on the arm of the Nile god, and near him is another child, in appearance identical with the prince, which is a symbol of that entity which the Egyptians called the ka. This sculpture was completed in the fifteenth century before Christ.

The ka was thought to be a superior spirit genius which desired to guide the associated mortal soul into the better paths of temporal living but more especially to influence the fortunes of the human subject in the hereafter. When an Egyptian of this period died, it was expected that his ka would be waiting for him on the other side of the Great River. At first, only kings were supposed to have kas, but presently all righteous men were believed to possess them.

One Egyptian ruler, speaking of the ka within his heart, said: “I did not disregard its speech; I feared to transgress its guidance. I prospered thereby greatly; I was thus successful by reason of that which it caused me to do; I was distinguished by its guidance.” Many
believed that the ka was “an oracle from God in everybody.” Many believed that they were to “spend
eternity in gladness of heart in the favor of the God that is in you.”

Every race of evolving mortals has a word equivalent to the concept of soul. Many primitive peoples believed the soul looked out upon the world through human eyes; therefore did they so cravenly fear the malevolence of the evil eye. They have long believed that “the spirit of man is the lamp of the Lord.” The Rig-Veda says: “My mind speaks to my heart.”

From a book entitled "Urantia Book" of which can be found: here for download.

This book goes deeper into the meaning behind the soul, such as this piece:

"There are three and not two factors in the evolutionary creation of such an immortal soul. These
three antecedents of the morontia human soul are -

The human mind and all cosmic influences antecedent thereto and impinging
thereon.

The divine spirit indwelling this human mind and all potentials inherent in such a
fragment of absolute spirituality together with all associated spiritual influences and factors in
human life.

The relationship between material mind and divine spirit, which connotes a value
and carries a meaning not found in either of the contributing factors to such an association. The
reality of this unique relationship is neither material nor spiritual but morontial. It is the soul."

I suggest this book in pdf for anyone interested in a deeper relationship with knowledge. The book is an amazing 9000+ pages of information.

Some excellent postings here...:) ..but no, Lord Wolf...if you have a heart transplant, you do not lose the seat of your soul...you just replace the mechanism that keeps the soul seated within your spiritual existence within the body.

The Heart is the lynch-pin...;)

It is a good and valid theory nevertheless, a transplant of the heart as the heart is a caretaker of the soul.

What if the soul of one individual is very well transfered to the next by way of any kind of physical transplant? There have been known characteristic changes associated with physical transplants, such as changes in music genre likes and loathes, to thoughts that weren't previously there before. These types of changes are well documented.

Could happen, but would not be proven since there is still no valid physical proof of the soul in this reality being the 3rd Dimension.

I believe the soul is energy and your consciousness combined, that it lives on beyond human time and life spans.

Eternity to me is a human concept, because we have a limited life span so time is important to us. Something being infinite and never ending gives us a mild form of comfort knowing that you will go on when your body is decaying.

Yes..excellent point again Soulshroud..:) Once a person's spirit moves on from the physical body...the heart, being a transplantable organ and also containing neurological fibers within it...could also account for the "imprint" of the soul it once anchored to this life. Thus, in theory, it could explain the nuances of subtle personality changes in persons receiving the heart of another.

Much like information is downloaded to a cd or a computer chip...our bodies and specific parts act in the same manner...the brain is the seat of the electrical system, the powerhouse of the mindful soul...but the heart is the seat of the soul's innate will and the powerhouse of the mindful spirit that resides within the subtle body of our physical beings.

These three exist...the spirit, the soul, and the body.

What Powers It...

In my opinion the soul has cover of consciousness and it fetches teh powers from all elements and even from dark matters. But it happen only when the soul takes any form of materialistic worn.

Without any matter soul and consciousness remain silent without any spark of power.

Opinion decisively Soul itself is the power or hub of the body which fetch the power to run the body.

but again....

if the soul (or a portion thereof) goes on forever...where does it get the energy to do it? and what part does entropy play? and how does the soul get around it?

have you ever noticed that most ghosts are recent? there are far fewer ghosts of over 100 years...and fewer still more than two hundred years, etc.

i cant recall ever hearing of any roman ghosts or sumarian ghosts for instance.
what happens to them? do they go to the "light" in time, or do they just burn out?
~W~

This is where I come in, ~Lordwolf~. The Universe is a living entity, not an entity as if it going to grow a face or sprout arms mind you, but a cosmic life force. It creates, kills and recreates over and over again. It is Cosmic Consciousness. The soul is part if this consciousness in that the soul has infinite energies that the universe gives it.

Ghosts are part of the Cosmic Consciousness, but this does not conclude why they only show up at random times. That phenomenon (ghosts) show up when a rift (tear in the space time continuum) occurs in certain areas of the Earth. Some places are more prone to this type of occurance (rifts). The energies are so focused in these areas, we will call them "leylines" (dragon lines as the Orient defines them). These leylines are built up of geomagnetic energies that are created by the universe as a stepping stone for the energies to exist on earth and to pass into certain objects, people and places. Thus ghost sightings are often seen on these leylines in the areas where they are more powerful then other places.

Now, for the soul... it can gain in as much energy as it desires because the universe is always willing to give the energy to the soul. For evolutionary purposes as well, since the soul is run by a karmic record database known as the Akashic Records. Since the soul lives in the physical body, it grows as the body grows but not in that physical sense. The soul in the physical body is made up of tiny micro-molecular crystals. These crystals are what causes the evolution of the soul, when they are reflected by the water of the physical body, their evolution begins... as well as does the physical body begin to grow up, and grow older. Once the vessel of the physical body perishes, then the sould continues on its path through its Akashic Records destiny. People in my practice like to think of this as a path of Ascension.

Well they do say we lose 21 grams when we die hence the film.
Some energy there, then of course there are the invisible dimensions to consider.
All the maths points to the fact there are linked dimensions. At a guess I would say elements from the 7th and 10th dimensions join with the 2/3rd and 4th to attempt a cross over into one of 7 Higher dimensions.
Why? oh just because its always 7 ...or 42 ; )

A simple, or not so simple answer, ~Night~... may be found: here

It basically describes the 3rd thru 5th Dimensions as well as what the meaning behind each represents.

oh..Lordwolf....I have read plenty of ghost stories and accounts galore...and I've found in much of the old world, there are many hauntings proclaimed to include Roman soldiers, plague victims, the Huns...and in the barren deserts of Egypt...the wind itself it said to howl with the vengeful spirits protecting the ancient Kings...Sumerian and otherwise...you can hear the clash of their swords in the midst of the night...@_@

Of course...there's always Destination Truth and the forever elusive Yeti...:P

As for where the energy goes...I have to concur with the inter-dimensional aspects described above....that and I'd have to state that Time is not a constant but an application involved in the process of the continuity of evolving conscious energy.

it is our energy our life force without it we would cease to exist

From what i've heard and seen, the soul is just the combination of processes in the brain working independently and yet communicating constantly, and being protected/preserved/kept-in-working-condition by the conscious entity...

Original Question: what is the soul? what is it made of? is it actually eternal?
that said, what is eternity?

My Opinion: If we were to take information based on what our spiritual ancestors would say, is that we are in essence, tied to some great cosmic forces, great cosmic energies, which through time have created us, our souls.

I believe the soul is nothing more than a miracle in itself of which the spirit and the physical at one point, collided together.

Thus this may explain where the war of spirit and science begins because we want to pick sides when if we truly think about it, they exist together. They always have.

Eternity will always be as long as energy and other cosmic forces exist. Without these energies, everything that exists whether near or far, will certainly die.

science is only a method of asking a question. true, we may not yet have the knowledge to adequately ask the question, but still, we must try....it is the nature of our species to do so.

i do not accept that there are things for which no rational explanation exists....but rather there are things that we just do not yet understand.

going back, if there are documented reports (especially if there is some evidence of it such as evps or photos) of truly ancient ghosts, i am only unaware of it. as to the howls of the pharoahs...it might only be the howling of the desert winds.
if not...then i would like it documented.

as for as what the soul is made of...
once they would say ectoplasm...but i dont think anyone has ever said what ectoplasm might be.
if we say it is energy...what sort? electro magnetic perhaps?

perhaps im over analyzing, but it if you arent getting a headache contemplating this, your doing it wrong.
LOL
~W~

All I have to say Is I have had memories from more past lives than i can count randomly bombard my mind since I was 13, Now that they Have finally settled in a bit I can actually access past life experiences Intentionally sometimes. And being an Empath Makes Me know we must Have some kind of reach outside our physical bodies... because otherwise what is is I am picking up on that registers in my mind and resonates with my very being?... I could rant forever ... but everything else has been covered by one person or another :D

it is electro magnetic glowing bluish whispy thingy, watch the entity...quite a good film but needs a modern re-make.

the entity is supposed to be based on actual events....just dont know the extent that it is "based"....how much is fact and how much fiction.


doesnt matter if your view is one already stated before....you may have a fresh take on it.


here is a thought...what if living energy may be drawn from other universes that co exist along side this one? perhaps incubi/succubi and vampyres/vampires are unable to access this energy source.

just an idea...i have no idea if there is anything to that idea...no idea how i could test the hypothesis.
~W~

well, Honestly it depends on if you define your soul as what it is that makes you conscious of yourself, like i do, or if you have the basic christian view on it. To me, the soul is the thing that makes each of us who we are, and why we differ in thought processes. That being said, i also believe that the soul is made up entirely of energy. Some call it pranic energy, but for me, it seems to be more like electromagnetic energy. To better explain this, i should let you know that certain parts of my brain are "cross-wired" which makes me see electromagnetic fields of a certain range as colors, like some people see sound as color. Since the human body puts off an electromagnetic field from the electric impulses that control it, you could say i can see a person's aura, to the point that with experience i have learned how to tell what some people are feeling simply by seeing their "aura" .
to me, this is the pranic energy, the life energy as i see it, of every living creature, and that is what i define as the soul.

the soul... it's what makes me, me..
as for eternity.. if time is a man made concept.. how would one define eternity...? a different question.

eternity? the extension of tomorrow.

I have recently had a conversation on this subject with a friend who differentiates between soul and spirit. I think it goes along with soulshroude's discussion about ba and ka. The spirit is akin to the lifeforce and the soul is what makes us , us.

My understanding is that when the first death occurs, we are separated from our bodies, and when the second death occurs, our soul is combined with other souls into a giant "whirlpool", if you will, of energy. I believe this "whirlpool" could be fueled by the ambient energy released by living people. Our individuality, as well as our consciousness, is blended with that of others. The point of ascension is to avoid this "second death."

My question is why some people's souls seem to be regenerated or reincarnated with memories of previous lives intact, while others are not. One theory is that you are condemned to repeat lives until your soul has learned the lessons that it was supposed to.

differentiates between soul and spirit?
interesting... my understanding of both needs altering then, or not ... I percieve them as one and the same.

In a human the soul and spirit are the same.
In a rock they are different.
In a plant they are different.
In an animal they are different.
In a Prophet it is also different.

The human spirit has the capacity to do everything which an animal can, but is not constrained by it's nature. It is also eternal, it is created to have no end, ehich implies that it is neither energy or matter; perhaps it can only be defined as a collection of virtue or character; and for innocents a collection of that potential.

The soul is special to God so it was created to exist eternally, the mortal world is a playpen, a place where we can develope attributes, such as love, forgiveness, and prosperity (in the sence that one has accepted god's bounty, worked hard to develope it, and then shared it.)

The body is a cage which protects the soul from harm, our brains limit our mind from straying into dangerous paths (such as we often explore on this forum.)

When we die, our soul needs to detach from the body, however this is often timely (from a mortal perspective) especially if the body has not learned detachment from material things and emotion while alive.

Kglitterous ... thank you, I like that a lot.

... an I was thinkin. the soul is also that which defines us and, our actions, from those of another.

Certain drugs can give one a glimpse of the well of Souls....Seroxat, now a banned substance can enable an individul to see a well of Souls. However, the risks to the indvidual are massive many take their own lives to be at peace and end the torment . Once they see you they will not let go lightly.

I'm a manic depressive, also known as bi-polar and, know others who have taken Seroxat and others like it...

maybe what you say is true.. for you.

Everything I have learnt of drugs like it, since I was 19, suggests that these drugs give a completely false sense of self.

Had to go a walk after posting that...

the last ex used Prozac and, within a few weeks, she was no longer the person I'd known.

needless to say, she couldn't see the changes, believing it gave her a sense of self.

my arguemnet was that to find that self, she shouldn't be looking to a pill [[a bottle, or something else.]]

well stated Angelus a dangerous road is traveled using drugs recreational, or for what are passed off as spiritual reasons.

in this case I obviously referred to legal, originally: but many oblivate their self, in favour of the released ID, with all that can mean, to their environment, by means of recreational drugs, like ... alcohol.

I always thought the soul was a combination of body,mind and spirit
I think the soul exists merely to evolve and to gather life experiences

i believe that the common persons moral compass is constantly pointed towards 'confused' and 'lets make sense of this' with other factors like person needs and wants edged in. Social and selfish by nature with the potential to get past childishness.. but for the most part, people are without the incentive...

Western medicine only sees the normal chemicals and brain activity and use conventional drugs for "mental illness"
Other cultures recognise there is something else going on and manipulate energies and spirits to rid the afflicted...I knew a 23 yr old who would stab a 8 inch carving knife into her thighs, she eventually lost her battle...now some blame "seroxat" but I could already see what was in her and it was not from this world. Ever seen Constantine...definitely a bit of that occurring.

you're right.. some would blame Seroxat, Prozac and, the like.. I would have.

creates a false sense of self.

I believe the soul is what makes humans more than just a beast. It gives us personality, a sense of right and wrong, and a sense of reasoning.
As for what it's made of, that's a mystery. Perhaps a form of energy.
I believe the soul is eternal, in my beliefs, the soul continues onto eternal life after it departs the body. Or lingers in this world as a "ghost".

I see the soul as the essence of a being, its hopes, dreams, nightmare, happy taughts, sad ones, emotions and belief, like the electricity in a toaster, it has no life itself but gives life to a thing, the soul gives life to a physical being, by itself it has no real life, only an essence of what it was.

I am not a religious person but could be called a spiritual person I guess but I am interested in a few more organized belief systems outside the mainstream of things.

I have a more metaphysical background than what I consider occult really but both. I was involved in a channeling group for years. We had teachers, fact or fiction, I don't know. I just believed what I was told at the time for the most part. I don't believe I could actually define what a soul is even if I discussesd that in the past. I have memory recall issues due to fibromyalgia. I do believe it does have attributes and I also believe it is at a higher frequency and it lowers to become symbiotically attached to the living host. It has to do with consciousness. I'm not saying it is not a living thing. This particular facet of the oversoul becomes attached and is imprinted so to speak with that life and personality. If the soul should detach or choose not to take that life, if another doesn't step in the body dies. It is the living essence of that person on a higher plane of existence. I think it is somewhat accurate to call it the spark of life on an individual basis.

I believe in more than past lives. I believe all lives are simultaneous and we create more souls and they are incarnating into the physical at various places in time. It is our mind that keeps us from realizing this because we can only think of time as being linear and our individualness as one person, therefore one soul.

The soul is learning with each incarnation. The soul is not immortal and can cease to exist but that is when the person has gone so far in reverse and it has something to do with waves and they become so flat they get absorbed by elementals. It is by choice I was told actually and sometimes I think this type of happening is when someone becomes despondent and actually dies, but they are revived and people will say that the person is different. The soul has died basically and another has stepped into the body. Most likely a different facet of that soul group.

These are just some things I learned about. I don't think there can be any definitive views on what the soul is exactly. It is sort of in the realm of belief systems. I have yet to meet anyone who has anything more to offer on this subject than their own beliefs or that of others and all are anecdotal or via religion or metaphysics.

I had the Urantia book at one time but it got water damaged and I had to throw it away. I have always been told it was channeled. It is a somewhat religious outlook on various things with a metaphysical bent. I read some of it a very long time ago. One can quote from these writings but which one is correct? Maybe none or maybe all but I know that no one that has posted here has all the answers but some have some very good theories in my opinion.

religious beleif have affected a lot of people on the way they see the soul, not many can say they are immune to external influence on the beleif of what is a sould, most will say its their own view, but in reality is it? Or is it just some modify view of what was introduce into their mind along the run?

I can only answer one of those questions I believe, the rest would be based upon a theory I have, so I suppose it could be under the category of believing as well I suppose.

First, Yes, I do believe in the soul. I believe we all have one, good or bad, it doesn't matter, it's still there, inside us all. I also believe once our bodies die there is a different plane of existence in which our souls go, weather that be Heaven, Hell, or purgatory (the in between).

I do believe that there is and eternity of sorts, depending on your definition of eternity that is. But I also believe that not everything lives forever, possibly not even the soul, everything has to end as some point or another, even God. Perhaps, once that end does come, new things could be reborn. But everything eventually has an end, as everything as a beginning.

Though, like I said, based upon theories and nothing more, because we can never truly be sure until it happens, now can we. But we can always try to make it interesting until we get to that end, whenever it may come.

Well eternity...
My opinion is that the soul is eternal exist in infinity as for time regard... but the awareness when grow only then the realization of the eternity is possible.

Case example...
You grows your subconsciousness. you go to spatial state by meditation in shavasana (slept position of body but mind gross awaken with relaxation) or padmasana (sitting position may it be on chair or on floor in lotus folded legs position)... when you are spatial yo grow your subconsciousness dynamically. And merge into space... Now important is that when you merged into space, your mind still awaken in subconsciousness.... just you try to go through the objects the walls, the air, the monitor, the cloud the planets, the stars, the gallaxy.

you will find that these objects you know very well from the beigining of its origin when they created or formed.

I think you just can try this example and try to find what eternity is.

According to the Bhagavad Gītā the soul is Eternal and that the flesh is simply a prision in which we are bound to. This prison, we are reborn into over and over again until the soul has gained sufficent enlightenment to reconnect to 'God'. Which once we have achieved unity, we are able to be reborn should we desire, or simply manifest or form at will upon the world.

While in Tantric aspect, our souls are a fragment of 'God' and that we are all players in a cosmic play in which we attempt to find the exit from stage.

I think one of the problems with this questions is; if I have a soul, then where will it go after death, and do i have anything to worry about? While some religions clearly state there is a soul, many people doubt. Even I doubt, and that's being honest. I also avoid telling people there are definite places the soul goes after death, but as a philosophy major, that might be intellectually dishonest.

ur soul is in ur heart or at least around there... for that is where you feel most things its made out of geez idk but i do belive in eternity, heaven or hell or staying on earth as a ghost or angel to do God's bidding

According to Traditions and studies our soul passes on to one of three possible out comes. If we are still in debt to our Karma, we continue on with the Samsara, we continue with death and rebirth.

In this, if we accumulated enough Good Karma, we enjoy our time within Heaven before rebirth, while enough Bad Karma, we go to hell and suffer until we pay our dues, than more onto rebirth.

Some most wicked people end up being reborn as animals, some who transgress from being an animal are reborn back to being a human. In some cases they retain some animalistic aspects, which is were the 'otherkin' I believe they are called, are represented from.

Eventually, if we shrug off our connection to Karma, we become boundless and upon death, can choose to be reborn, or live beside 'God' or become a spiritual guide to others upon the three worlds or even in the many different universes.

- Sin

Well I feel the nature of our soul is energy and that just maybe it is our brain as they say the eyes are the window into our souls. Reason I believe this is because without brain activity we are nothing but a shell of a person, we have no personality, no thoughts, no voice, etc.

we are just a vegetable, therefore I do strongly believe that our soul is within our brain. The brain is full of energy and electrons etc. that spark and keep us going.

Once we lose our soul, when we die I feel it passes on to another life form. Without the energy ( or soul ) we are nothing.

I feel that we, our soul comes back many times till it has fulfilled its journey to making us whole. I mean it may be one soul yet, I truly believe that it returns many times for some because they have a purpose or have yet to accomplish what they (your soul) are to accomplish.

But the nature of the soul to me is Energy so just my 2 cents.

i honestly believe the soul is wat your conscience and your feelings and your lifes path is all made up of. any other options?

I agree with Severus about the soul simply being concious energy, evolved energy. Some of us are aware of past lives, have awakened to them, while some have no recollection at all. It could be a triggered concious part of that energy or we are receiving collections of memories that we are surrounded by that are manipulated by other energies. That too is something to consider.

I'm not sure the Soul has a nature in itself. It might be pure energy and just spirit. And if the body dies wouldn't the energy stop?

No because energy itself doesn't stop, so nor will the soul

Billy,I have heard of Atman and about the souls seat within the heart.
The first thing that would always come to my mind when I heard it was,perhaps not in the heart,but Pineal gland.
I tend to believe this line of thought because of DMT and its potential as a conductor of sorts,etc..
Any thoughts?
Btw,great posting everyone.I have enjoyed reading the thread ths far.

i have posted this link to which i find some of you will find informative and intresting about the nature of the soul

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/ancient-soul/

wow...im impressed how well this has taken off....

my own thoughts of life after death are a bit conflicted actually.
i suspect that people may experience what they expect to experience after death.

i suspect that some just cease to exist...

some do find a heaven, summer-land, nirvana, or even hell...

i think very few are reincarnated....and those i think are for a reason.

anyway, i freely admit its only my opinion, and your mileage will certainly vary.


~W~

What about soul switching? Can it be done?

My theory is it is made up of all the stored electric charges in our body, and when we pass that energy leaves us in the form of our soul.

I think of the soul is kind of an anchor to the light. That's why those who follow darkness are supposed to not have souls.