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So mythologically, the vampire is always portrayed as some kind of sexual hypnotist. The ability to sway the opposite sex and lure it into allowing the vampire to feed.

I'm always interested in looking at modern scientific answers to mythological questions even though the myth itself may be nothing more than a story. So the idea of phermones creeps into my mind. Does anyone feel that hyper powerful phermones could become a new trait for the modern fiction/mythical vampire?

That would make more sense to me than the common 'hypnotism' theory.

Felix to me that makes alot more sense because they say that if they are hyper then the reactions toward whomever is stronger so I believe you may have a very valid point here :)

I suppose it generates more debate on the whole subject matter does it not? As the fact there is some much debate surrounding this topic, so i have no idea haow many are out there now

What a great idea Felix. I always thought the hypnotic stare/voice was a bit cheesey, but phermones could explain the lure of the vampire.

I agree to what's being said because it is very well possible that indeed phermones are what draws one to them.. Great post Felix

If we're considering that the Vampire is "undead", would they still have that decaying smell about them? If so, wouldn't that overpower any pheremones? The human sense of smell is predisposed to reject the smell of rotting or decaying material.

Yes undead certainly poses some issues since we are predisposed to fear or disgust with that scent. The thing is that phermones could be said to work for some and not for others. The reason we may be attracted to one person and not to another. So perhaps since phermones are so difficult to nail down as a cause of individual emotion, those phermones are what keeps a person 'passionate' in the face of the undead and that's why when a phermone doesn't fit, another person could be so disgusted by the vampire.

Think about how the boyfriend or family of the victim is quite aware of the fiends true 'vile nature' but are powerless to change her mind. It reminds me of how parents are often trying to keep their children away from some 'unsavory' individual that the child is 'hopelessly in love with'. The phermones don't work with the family and therefore they see or feel the true evil and death about the vampire.

That could be argued a psychological affliction - the Bad Boy complex, if you will. But I see what you mean, and to play the devils advocate for a moment:

There may not really be any human pheromones which affect us physiologically. If the person was in a psychological trance, it may be because of that person's affinity for a particular smell but doesn't necessarily mean that this smell is a pheromone. I've seen many ladies swoon over a particular cologne.

Let's say that it is though. This means that the pheromone emitted by the vampire would have to work on who he/she wanted to effect. However, pheromones don't work that way. The person effected could be someone entirely different than who the vampire wanted.

That could pose a rather humorous conundrum - I'm picturing a Mel Brooks film.

Good points. Obviously, a phermone would be impossible to direct but if it were strong enough, it could be something that had a greater chance of working on a larger pool than for normal humans.

The additional puzzle piece may have something to do with how people end up together in spite of the small pool of potentials. We somehow manage to often find who we are looking for romantically. Does that mean that phermones 'match up' or is it luck. If we tend to be attracted to those who could 'match us' then a vampire could be more apt to instinctively know who to target. Otherwise, a vampire would target the 'meatiest' and not the 'prettiest' victim.

One other point worth making. Once a relationship is established, our bodies release other chemicals that make our loved one's familiar scent, sound, and even look a key of comfort, safety and pleasure. Chemicals like dopamine & seratonin are released initially to create a pleasure / reward sense of attraction and then later, oxytocin and vasopressin is released to create almost an addiction to the other person (love) and it reinforces an existing relationship and almost establishes a link to keep people together. Those chemicals could also be something that a strong enough phermone could 'spark'. without the time spent so that the pleasure / reward and addictive principles of love are initiated almost immediately. It would almost be like some kind of date rape drug but through natural phermones and body chemicals.

That's a good possibility, but I think the matter would be more of a situation of timing. Women tend to expel a hormone/possible pheromone during ovulation. This helps increase sexual urge in men during this time. If a Vampire was hungry, and emitted a pheromone that was triggered by that hunger, then it would be more likely that he could attract a specific type of person at the time that he wanted.

The typical reasons for pheromones are reproductive. The example of ovulation and a vampire's hunger could coincide as they are both means of reproduction (though not a definite result).

I've convinced myself then. Yes. Pheromones are definitely a possibility.

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This pher·o·mone (fěr'ə-mōn') Pronunciation Key
n. A chemical secreted by an animal, especially an insect, that influences the behavior or development of others of the same species, often functioning as an attractant of the opposite sex.


To help out a bit.

Imagine if you will, that your body suddenly produces a triple shot of dopamine, seratonin and oxytocin. It's effects could be similar to ecstacy and love as well as being nearly drunk on your own feelings. You would in effect...'swoon' - like so many of the vampire victims tend to do in fiction.

Now if a phermone could release these 'love' chemicals just by being significanty stronger than the average potential 'mate', you'd have the perfect human predator. Your prey would quickly fall in love with you as well as being dibilitated and weaker than usual. To top it off, those chemicals create an almost addictive bond so that you could come again and again to the same prey.

Well since we ARE indeed talking about a mythical creature that makes perfect sense, and I agree with the logic.

My only reservation at this point would be that if it is a chemical reaction, then any other humans with similar (not exactly the same but even remotely similar) receptors would succumb to the same effects.

Sorry. Let me clarify that. Any other humans with similar receptors that are in the vacinity would succumb to the same effects.

You mean like when a vampire walks into a crowd and women start all showing interest or actively swooning? I think some stories or movies have shown that effect (just without an explanation).

That's a good example. But moreso, I'm thinking of the homophyllic vampires of Anne Rice - when a vampire walks into a room and even the men are struck with envy and wanting simply because he is there.

I could see it being a chemical reaction even there. Certainly we have those with varying sexual preferences that seem receptive to same sex or other possible phermone influences. I don't even see that as being abnormal or complicated. It allows for even more defense if a vampire can equally incapacitate more than it's 'target' audience or increase it's victim pool.

You know, I personally am of the thought that, if vampires do exist, they're the revenant-types (e. g. vampires like the one in Nosferatu).

The sexual appeal of vampires, to me, is more in the act of the bite itself. Think about it - the neck is an extremely sensual part of the body, and a kiss/bite in that area is likely to cause some sort of sexual arousal in the party being kissed/bitten.

Not to sound too witty here, but without his presence there would be no pheromone.

I agree that the manner with which one conducts oneself is important in presentation, but sometimes even the most cultured and presentable are less desirable than a vagabond. This may be due more to the chemical interaction than simple presence.

Hehe yes well if we were focused strictly on the Nosferatu style of vampire, we'd have to be talking about some serious phermones...I mean really really strong stuff lol.

As for the biting. I think that a bite can cause sexual stimulation but how does the vampire get close enough to do that?...especially if he looks like an albino rat (nosferatu) :)

Well, Felix, they could probably knock the victim out with their smell of death...lol.

Seriously, though, I think the chemicals which furnish trust are necessary in order for your suggestion to work.

Ah Felix,

Phermones seem to be a more Natural explanation for a mythical creature. LOL But seeing as how I view Vampires as a more Natural Creature to begin with.
And Phermones happen to be a perfect explanation. And since Science is still studing Phermones, there is still alot really unknown, there are several possiblities we could speculate at.
One being that while Phermones may not be easily directed to a specific target. They are however very strong on a close quaters basis.
Two being that since not all is known about Phermones or the Human brain. We might be able speculate that the Phermones of a Vampire may hold a sort of addictive chemical that may cause those within the effect to desire more of the Phermone.
Three. The Chemicals released by the Phermones may also contain a side effect that causes a euphoric like state that over powers more logical thought.

Though these are but my humble opinions.

It might be just phermones. It's possible they have some kind of dominant energy that draws people in. From what I hear, it is used on everyone, not just the opposite sex.

Certainly one could take a more metaphysical faith and magic route...and considering we're talking about the 'undead' it wouldn't be too far out for that kind of a myth. I'm just saying that our growing knowledge about phermones creates some interesting in unsupported ideas about where this could lead (even if only in fiction or movies).

Staying with your example of male vampire with above average sexual prowess and female victim, the key is not in the vamp's phermones so much as it is with her scent, and his extraordinary ability to pick up on it across the moors.

Pre-1960 stories are imbued with a Victorian sensibility, and the underlying mythos is loss of innocence. The girl is ready to get laid, is fairly saturated with her own desire, but her erstwhile fiance and paternal figure usually fail to notice this because they're all fluttery with respectful conventions.

Wolfsbohne is right. Dracula was a bad boy. Anyone with three hot babes back in the castle has to know a few things about women.

Speaking of which and tying in the literary and cinematic aspects, there is also a subtle pedophilia subtext. The vixens are full-blown, ravenous, ripe. The new vic is young, inexperienced. This was also something the Victorians got off on.

Vampires dont always attract only the opposite sex. Anne Rices vampires were not gender specific. I think they are just sexual beings and even with out the chemical they have what most people desire in a mate is power, intelligence, strength and independance. They have a "Masterful" way about them which people male/female alike want.

Sounds like pheromones in high doses is a real possibility. There is so much yet to be learned about them. This seems much more likely than any other theories I have heard of.

Well again...when we're talking about attraction and women (or men) being 'ripe for the plucking', there's still something at work that helps a person decide who's allowed to do the 'plucking'. We understand that with humans, attraction and love is largely a chemical experience (or entirely a chemical experience depending on how much you have faith in souls or 'connections')

My desire is to ascertain a way that a vampire could be tapping into those chemical reactions so that it could use for it's predatory nature.

Individuals still have rather unique tastes in their partners. How does the vampire overcome all those variations in what someone considers their ideal so that they push to the top of suitors list or claim the virgin or hold sway over the attractive prey. My thought is that of an overpowering phermone that supercedes individual tastes, releases chemicals in the unwitting target and they become consumed with lust and love for their predator...even willing to leave the window unlocked for the second and third visits.

Felix- Certain plants emit an odor that can cause chemical reactions within the human body. And when burned can cause hypnotic and hallusinatory states of euphoria. The possiblity that a Vamipres Phermones might be able to induce the same states would be quite a powerful attractent among either sex. Especially if cuasing an addictive reaction.

Great possibility (great post)!

How do you explain the sheer number of hook-ups, if not actual marriages, initiated and maintained via the internet, and before that, telephones, letters, the wireless, pony express?

Let's just focus on the internet. No phermones.

I still maintain that a phermone, perhaps a "suceptibility" phermone, only capable of being detected by a vampire.

Remember, all a vamp's senses are enhanced. They can feel the beat of your heart and the zing of your blood through your veins. This would work for both genders of vamps and vics.

Well certainly phermones aren't the end all be all of attraction. We dont' really know how human phermones work (despite there already being 'phermone' colognes and perfumes on the market lol). But love and attraction is very much a part of the chemical reactions taking place in the body and brain of people. So whether phermones are just a part of it or wholey absent in some cases, it wouldn't mean that we couldn't build up those chemicals through verbal or even written communication.

But when two people physically meet, there is something happening that involves things like phermones, scents, and activity in the brain involving chemicals that act like drugs.

Well certainly phermones aren't the end all be all of attraction. We dont' really know how human phermones work (despite there already being 'phermone' colognes and perfumes on the market lol). But love and attraction is very much a part of the chemical reactions taking place in the body and brain of people. So whether phermones are just a part of it or wholey absent in some cases, it wouldn't mean that we couldn't build up those chemicals through verbal or even written communication.

But when two people physically meet, there is something happening that involves things like phermones, scents, and activity in the brain involving chemicals that act like drugs.

When we're talking mythological creatures, it's all magic and it's all in the blood. Their 5 senses are enhanced, and they seem to have augmented esp, too. Why shouldn't they be empowered to seduce?

excerpt from a piece I wrote: "Vampires can think and learn and feel love; we sleep and dream; we eat sweat, and weep human blood. It seeps into every part of us. Hapless as adolescents we throb with it."

The adolescent analogy supports your phermone idea.

I'd still rather they sniff me out than the other way around.

And who says they don't. Maybe Phermones work both ways with Vampires. I know I have been drawn to women by thier scent alone. Having hightened senses may allow the Vampire to pick up the scent Phermones that will mix with thier own to create just the right hypnotic ambrosia.

I don't really think so. It just doesn't fit together in my mind.

there is a certain magnatism with vampires and psychic people also have this...

mysticalmoon - so you're suggesting that the attraction victims have to a vampire would be a far more psychic control over anything biological? I do agree that in many stories, the vampire has more awareness of his control than might the average person or animal using phermones, but I am intrigued by mundane explanations for that as opposed to lumping one paranormal trait on top of another and another (if for only some foundation in real world attraction).

hmm pheromones. Could be a good option to this I also believe a individual with over abundance of confidence and perhaps a keen mind for word manipulation along with perhaps just a convincing honest smile.all of these could lead to the charm of a vampire.Which would take a ton of paranormal skills away from the meta world and bring it into a more definitive world.

i believe it very well could work until vampire really walk out streets we wont know

Hell, I have a hard enough time responding to other peoples post. lmao

Now that was SUPPOSED to be a message center box! oops!
I'm right with you on the Pheromones Felix, they are a strong factor in some, weaker in others. They can overwhelm a person for sure, as I have met a more than a few of both sexes that were "Entrancing" shall we say?

i dont see why they would need it phermones are chemical used to creat a sent of the opposite sex (and same species) will react to with a want to mate
and if the are already so unbeleaveable good looking they wouldnt really need such an evalvement

These are all very interesting theories. I once read a couple of books, entitled 'Bite Me' and 'Stake That' (adolescent vampire novels), that stated that when you became a vampire you acquired a 'vampire scent', which causes individuals of both sexes to become attracted to you. I believe they were referring to some type of pheremone that one obtains upon being 'turned'. Ever since I read the books I have pondered this theory, as it would offer a good explanation. I am glad to see other people have thought of this possibility.

Probably the reason although they are suppose to be very attractive they still have the normal animal instinct smell of a predator so I would see this as a form of camouflage.To trick its prey, via pheromones to disguise its scent of a predator to a mate.I can not remember which insect it is but I do know of a insect that uses pheromones to make its food think its a mate

I think pheromones makes perfect sense. And as far as them becoming a new trait for the modern fictional vampire, I've already read one book that used it, though the title escapes me at the moment.

felix...you and wolfsbohne sound like scientists in here...lol
reading some of your posts debating just made me think of the movie "Perfume" If you haven't seen it you should...but in short it's about a boy with a who can smell everything and grows and tries to capture the essence oil of women....the killing and so forth leading to a perfume that caused EXTREME love/lust among all the people men or women

Are we talking like on the movie blade or more of a real thing ?

Perfume was a phenomenal movie and shows the power of scent as well as how real human instinct is, no matter how much we try to repress it.

But back to the matter...
Although the Vampire may cause a swoon over his/her victims due to pheremones, perhaps it is also human nature to desire and crave the dark, the mysterious, the unknown and the forbidden. The combination of this human trait and the possible secretion of pheremones can make a vampire damn near irresistable.

I tink it is more of an over all charisma that they have . Most vampires that are portraied in books and movies are very beautiful , charming , and have the ability to talk the pants off you

But most people who encounter a vampire can usually sense something mysterious... hidden. They have that certain 'Je ne sais qui' that humans can't put their finger on, and therefore they are intrigued even more... pulled in, lured, not only by charm but also the mystery of what is hidden beneath the surface.

But most people who encounter a vampire can usually sense something mysterious... hidden. They have that certain 'Je ne sais qui' that humans can't put their finger on, and therefore they are intrigued even more... pulled in, lured, not only by charm but also the mystery of what is hidden beneath the surface.

But most people who encounter a vampire can usually sense something mysterious... hidden. They have that certain 'Je ne sais qui' that humans can't put their finger on, and therefore they are intrigued even more... pulled in, lured, not only by charm but also the mystery of what is hidden beneath the surface.

Sorry for the multiple posts... it was unintentional.

over the years, humans have evolved.
Who is to say Vampires have evolved to include pheromone control along with their other abilities.

Yes I have thought about that before... to me there could be no other explination... unless of course someone shows one to me....

check this site out

http://www.kimharrison.net/Dates_From_Hell.htm

i assume that a vampire bites a human,
the human then becomes a vampire.
it is probable that a vampire still carries some human character, in this case.... pherimones

i agree that there must be some scientific basis to this hypnotic effect, although, i liken it more to the "dear in the headlights" fear response than much more, however personal chemical signals can be quite powerful as well.

I don't think a vampire gives off any pheromones as he/she's dead and I would say that these functions stop working. As it's just mythical I would say he relies on the magic of the moment.

i guess thats possible when you look at it from a scientific point a view. i always leaned toward the hypnosis side of it, but maybe its time to look at it another way.

Yeah, the idea of Vampire Phermones sounds possible and interesting, but I vote for the hypnotism theory.

vampire phermones are used to hunt yes but they are also used to attract a mate and like lions the females hunt more and usualy control the males the are stronger than us males

Absolutely Felix.

we tell what you already know to be true ie we get a feal for what you are looking for then we become "it" ie we become the answer you are looking for

Well, as far back as the vampire in myth dates, they weren't portrayed as sensual creatures until Dracula was written. Then, I think people liked the idea of being seduced by something terrifying and even taboo.

I like the thought of phermones at work. It is more believable to me than hypnotic abilities. Phermones are proven to exist scientifically.

I would like to get those bottled. How fun would that be. Wearing some vampire mojo...better than Axe body spray for sure.

I believe it's possible

vampires can sense what you want and give it to you at that moment which makes you theirs at that point it allows them to get close

Don't think me conceited for this, but I am basically able to seduce anyone.

I usually don't though.

Lol.

Might that have to do with pheromones?

It could be a combination of cunning, a hypnotic voice, pheromones, and mythology.

Would those pheromones come with a reduced sense of smell, or even none at all?

that is a better idea

I doubt that, ShadowSeeker.

I think it's a very possible idea

i've actually read a book seiries where that's how vamps opperate.