i want to know what other people here believe about Organ Transplants, in regaurds to Cellular Memory...is the spirit of the Organ donar hanging on or is it just science fact that cells hold memory.???
i think that its scientific ...im not 100% sure though
the reason i opened this thread is due to the fact i have a friend who recieved a kidney and his straight hair turns real curly ...the organ came from someone of a differant ethnic background ...shortly there after i seen a show where people with differant transplants had strange food cravings and started likeing things like sports ...stuff they never did before the organ transplant and they later find out that the donar like those things
How would that be tested comes to mind, good question.
I believe u can get other characteristics from organ transplants as well as blood transfusions
yes I do think organs contain a type of memeory maybe not how we look at it as in the mind but they do remember they act a spicific way because that is how they always worked in the old body
I am so glad you started this thread! I was actually about to write one, myself!
It's actually called "transference" -- when the traits of a donor manifest in the recipient.
In England (and this is what interested me in the subject in the first place), a man committed suicide. His wife donated his heart. Somehow, the donor met and married the widow and committed suicide on the anniversary of the first husband's death! Yep -- those wacky British know a thing or two about romance, kiddies!
I also heard about a teenage girl that received an organ from a male donor and soon after the successful transplant, started taking on traits of a man (dress, walk, etc.).
So, here is my "A HA!" If our bodies are genetically encoded with whatever traits we're meant to carry throughout our life, who's to say that the transferring of genes -- let's say through an organ donation, does not allow for some traits to possibly be absorbed by the recipient??
Was there not a recent story about a man who got a heart transplant from someone who committed suicide and then committed suicide himself?
Erm, well don't hold that as a "fact" I'm not sure if it actually happened. I thought I had read something like that.
I've often wondered if this theory holds any real truths to it. It seems like it can be linked to "Phantom limbs" , when people can still "feel" their limbs after they have been removed or lost.
i have heard of these things and seen it with my friend ... but it is so confusing to me as to how one organ could possablly change a persons likes dislikes ect ...this thread seems to be comming together nicely thank you all who have posted so far
Depending on what culture you examine, organs have held a lot of value as far as the energies of a person, I wonder if that could have something to do with this.
Personally if I had an organ given to me it would feel strange to know that it once belonged to someone else...
Is this theory limited to certain kinds of organs? What about skin? Skin graphs given from cadavers. Is it limited to Human organs transplanted? hmm...
Yes, Anann, I heard about the suicide on the radio, Monday. I meant to look up which paper posted it to see whether or not it was garbagio.
Even though I cant say I dont believe the suicide did not happen, I dont think that it could be directly tied to the donor organ
Well, BlackHawk, I admit, I am the biggest nay-sayer out there and even I had to admit (assuming the facts are in order) that there is too much coincidence for it not to be a valid theory. Again, I will try to figure out which paper posted this story (if someone has been abducted by aliens as the front page story, then I'd tend to think the entire paper was bogus).
As for skin grafts... why not? The skin is an organ.
i also believe it can happen..there really isnt anything proving otherwise..
I am in no way saying that I personally believe the organ was what made the man commit suicide...Just that some had wondered if that's what caused it. Quite a coincidence too.
if its possable for twins seperated at birth to actually marry people with same names and own the same types of cars and stuff then why couldn't a single organ cause a person to react the way the donor did??? i personaly believe it could very well be true
attaching such testimony to a claim is discouraging to me. On a subtle note it rings possible, such hyperbole creates conjecture. Usually exposing desperate people who feel it is important to them that others believe in order for them to suppress doubt. The more fellow believers the more support and people to share astonishment with.
This is so very interesting..im not really sure what i believe, but thanks for posting this thread n i hope to read more on this subject.
i dont need confirmation of others to believe as i do...dabbler ...i may have misunderstood what you were saying i just was saying i felt it could be possable and was making a simple comparisan
Cellular memory is a real thing. I saw a doctor on Oprah talking about it. There was a person on there that received an organ from someone that loved pasta and roller coasters and the recipient liked those things after receiving the organ, but didn't know of all that before. And before, they didn't like those things. The doctor went on to explain it. I wrote it down but threw the paper away just last night, thinking I wouldn't need it anymore! haha......damn. Something about the peptides in the system, mixing with yours. Something about how their dna now mixing with yours. It's very interesting. Hope you end up with a good person's organs if you ever need them.
does this mean that ...it is a portien of ones soul trying to cling to life????
I don't think so, but I dunno. Could be along the lines of my walk in question!
When you dig deeper, you start running into qualities that the other person had. Well it's because of the dna passed along. So really, you could be changing your whole future and your children's future, with another person's dna in your body. So you could be inheriting health problems OR you could be getting great genes. It's a crapshoot.
I don't think an organ would change so many physical things about a person like their DNA so much as it would affect a person's spiritual qualities.
Many transplants happen these days, we don't seem to hear too many stories of something being different for those people other than some emotions attached to the fact that they have part of someone else in their own body. That in itself seems quite intense.
It is my believe that no organs donated have memory of their previous user ... that said a little while ago science were working on a theory about 'shadow' memory ... but there wasn't any concrete proof at that time.
Well my thinking is that if a object that someone once owned, such as a ring or necklace, can still have part of that person's aura attached to it. Why not a body organ?
The aura is essentially our soul energy, so would that not then blend into our own aura and help infuse that persons characteristics into your own?
I think it is both. Cellular memory and the soul energy still attached to the organ. I think over time the soul energy would be taken over by your own... so if the personality changes remain the same then the probability would be that it was at a cellular level.
Hmm I've never heard of this before, and I can't understand how it would occur unless it was a brain transplant. Although, the human body is a marvellous thing, much of which we do not understand. There is much yet to discover and I'm sure there is an explainable reason why this happens.
Well I have worked in the medical field a long time and Phelebotomy is my specialty and it is the DNA mixing with your own (the reciever of a donor) Many people have transplants and even their blood type can change over time it is so weird and I work in the science of Blood so believe me anything can happen, as for it being the soul hangin on *no* I feel it is just the science part of the transplant is all, due to tissue, blood,DNA, and many other factor in the equation..
Yet I do find it interesting that some people will begin to show signs and actions of the Donors in their everyday life.
Hey the body is still a very mysterious thing... expecially the brain ya know...
My step-father, who is a full blooded from Norway, had a liver transplant 10 years ago. Before the transplant, he was very specific in his likes and dislikes regarding food. In fact, he was fairly closed off to trying anything new. Since the transplant, which came from a Native American, his tastes have changed dramatically. My mother, who is a Hidatsa woman and very into her culture's ethnic foods, would always have to make something seperate for him whenever she made a dish from her childhood. Now, however, he eats with relish any kind of Native American cuisine. Particularly Cornballs with june berry mush - something he despised previously. I truly believe that there his new liver affected this. His changes make no sense otherwise. Sure, he could have changed his mind and decided to be more open minded about food, but this is a man who is as stubborn as the day is long.
Very interesting thread! Thank you for starting this.
LOL your so cute Maska :) It is a weird subject, because it does actually happen to people whom have transplants done.. My Cousin died and was able to save 7 lives and everyone of them have aquired some kind of trait that he had when he was alive yet did not have before the transplant so I agree it is a Very Weird Subject, yet ironic at the same time...
i would like to give thanks to all who visited here and gave thier info and ideas and a special thanks to warriorinhell
vespers
ladyxopheia
you gave me a little more to stand on ...seeing it with my friend was odd and i just needed to know more and hear what others thought
your very welcomed I just know it can seem weird at first and even more weirder for the person whom recieved the transplant... :)
i had a full blood transfustion and did not know anything about it till about a year after wards ...the only thing for me is i felt creepy about the whole thing but i know we build new blood cells every day and flush out old ones so iam sure i have all my own blood now and the transfused stuff is gone...or may be iam wrong
To an extent i believe in call memory. but nothing like the hollywood movie The Eye.
I know from personal experience that I never ate bacon cheeseburgers, drank tea or had breakfast for dinner until after my liver transplant 2 years ago. The super liver as we call it came from my stepson. He could eat bacon cheeseburgers everyday. He breaks up the pattern with breakfast. And I never ate breakfast food at all
A little disturbing, but it does seem possible. LivNdedGirl mentioned a friends hair changing after transplant. As we age, our hair type can change from straight to curly or vise versa. I'm not saying this is the case with your friend, but it does happen. However reading the other examples people have listed does lead me to think it's possible.
i guess in some sort of sick and twisted way i was hopen that someone would have said yes it is the spirit wanting to live on and would give the recipiant of the donar a duel personality so to speak
There certainly have been movies made about it, but I don't think that a part of a person's soul lives in a body appendage.
It holds the preferences of the person, but is it the soul or consciousness of the person? If lungs for example are used to a smoker, the pattern is recorded, or a stomach, the foods that were ingested.
It's like if a person writes down words, the words came from that person, so is the soul of the person in those words? Or are the words just a recording made by the person? I believe this is a helpful analogy. If another person reads those words, is a part of the soul of the original person now inside the second?
It almost seems as if yes and no are both correct answers here. I really can't find the line in this one...
If you are suggesting that at a cellular, chemical level, things such as smoking, drugs, alchohol even types of food may be part of the cellular tissue itself. I can seel where, in that situation, the organ may affect normal cellular development in the host body.
Personnaly, I only know one person who has had transplanted parts. He has "dead man's eyes," otherwise know as transplanted corneas on his eyes.
My friend has not experienced any physical or mental changes as a result, so in my local experience, I would say that it is a myth.
But if I am presented with more evidence, I might be able to be persuaded to believe otherwise.
thedog i will do my best to get you some link to back this up as i seen a show about this topic on oparah and as i said i have a friend whos hair changed drastically with in weeks afterwards ...if b chance the thread is closed before i can get a link i will send it to your profile my understanding is this fanomina does not happen to all transplant recipiants
I look forward to it.
Another aspect to consider is that DNA form the part my be interacting with the host body, and my cause changes.
A heart, liver, or kidney is definitely a much larger hunt of cells than corneas, so there may be merit in this discussion.
Makes me wish that I was a researcher and could do a study on it.
well when you have a lrger mass that is transfered into another it has much more dna and cells to recipcate and become stronger in their host as it were...
I have never heard of it but this thread gives some interesting thought into it
Hmmm, after reading everyones responses I'm not so sure. It seems to me that it could only be science alone but yet so many have had these experiences so there must be something , its hard to say, the mind has so much undiscovered territory so to speak, there is so much we don't know.
cells hold memory ..... how could they function if they didn't ?
The Transplant Center at Columbia Presbyterian has mandatory workshos before a transplant. I attend the forums to add my input as a post transplant patient. I have to ask that question to see if other post patients have had similiar experiences. This is a good topic for their forum as it deals with the emotional feelings that go along with it
I am not sure on this one. I am split both ways especially after reading what everyone has written on this matter. I can see how people would believe the spirit is hanging around and I also can agree with it being scientific. So basically I guess it could be possible.
further up i put a link and posted the whole web page under thedog who asked for more info just scroll back a bit to you find an extra long post
i do believe in cellular memory... there is lot of person that had thoses strange feelings or reaction after a transplantation... or i already read about people that was orphans but was able to find their biologic parents just by the touch of the skin
I think it is possible there is a link between the doner and reccipient through the DNA i.e. cellular memory. The larger the organ transplanted, and the liver is the largest internal organ, the higher the probability of this effect.
I think a little of both really. Whos to say where spirituallity and science end and being. Each cell has a bit of out very individual DNA locked into it whos to say that our spirt cant be locked into the cells as well. How long have people been using hair, blood, nails, or other bodily items to personalise spells or charms to specific people? Low and behold years and years later we learn that the stuff inside that tissue can identify who the person is. Maybe there is something to it that science hasnt figured out yet.
It is kind of odd how all these changes happen with their dislikes and likes of kinds of foods.
ive heard of it,but im not entirely sure if its actually possible or not.
My father just recently went through a kidney transplant..pretty much he just came home today after being in the hospital for a week. Anyways before his transplant he could never recall any of his dreams in vivid detail, but after the transplant he started dreaming and remembering them as if he had just watched them on TV. The fact that he remembers the dreams isn't the weird part. He actually dreams about doing things that he would never think of doing and in his dreams he is different in some ways. His most recent dream he dreamt about killing people and stealing vehicles from car lots. He also attempted to kill a police officer in his dream. Now a little bit about the donor. He was in his late 20's murdered by someone in the streets of Atlanta... this is all we know about the donor, but it makes me wonder what kind of person he was and if his life has influenced my fathers dreams.
Do some quick research on "memsidtors" Transistors that actually retain memory after power is lost.
hey carsho dude this is not electronics this is the human body
Ah but do they not both link. Nature is 1000x better than us at everything. If we can make something that can do it, what is to say it does not naturally occur in nature. After all, science is just the manipulation of nature to suit a purpose.
i guess in some way they do. the whole idea is just trying to figure out how much of the other person will take charge of who you were before the transplant as iam on a list to recieve a set of new lungs i surely dont want to turn into someone else i cant see my self liken sports or exercising the whole idea scares me and i have seen it in friends and read many reports i was hoping that somehow i was misunderstanding the facts as they stand
I think it's just cell memory. Your body is just a thing. A temporary home for your spirit.
I actually think it could possibly be a little bit of both. Mostly cell memory...but I'm sure there's some trace of the spirit in there. I mean, think of a lot of the people who tend to turn their lives around after something like that. Do you really think all of those are people that have had a sudden epiphany on their lives?
I believe it. DNA records everything. We just don't know how to unlock certain things through science yet.
they say the dead can hold onto objects. or items or people close to them whats not to say that the objects there holding onto aint there vital organs and why people dont have strange phenomanons after transplants...........
I think it is a little bit from both sides,though I could be wrong on this.
A cellular memory would just be that a memory, maybe enter your dream world, but would not affect or control your waking behavior.
i dont see how you could split up a spirit in that many peices to go into that many outher people . or soul as i say instead of spirit . i think of a soul as a whole and not able to split it up. i would more lean towards the scientific facts and research that they may hold some kind of memories in the cells.......
I am tossed up about this one. I have read what other people have written & they bring up good points. But, in all honesty I don't see where a transplanted organ could change your traits. But, I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time.
well i know it is scientific as well as proven fact with many having new traits they develope after a transplant and it is usually the traits of the donors. Yet some develope traits that have no baring on either party, just different traits they begin to develope.
I have worked in the med. field for years and cell structures and blood works are my specialty. I have seen alot of things change in people from blood tranfusions to donor recipents.
living organisms hold memories of many different things and any way it is very posssible.
Good question.....
I feel it is a bit of both cells and spirit hanging on and i belive the person who receives these organs
can feel somethings that person they came from did
Like all of sudden liking a kind of food or having glims of the persons life sort of speak
I am not 100% on this but i feel to me it could be true
i believe that the spirit is a constant in all parts of the body so if a peice is removed and it doesnt die in transport then that persons spirit will be there forever.
I believe it is scientific. I do believe if the person whose kidney or organ it was liked mac and cheese then maybe the person who got it would like it as well. It is a great question and a real head scratcher at that. I heard of the same thing as well.. Someone got another persons organs and started to have different characteristics.. not a lot mind you but a bit.
I'm totally open to the idea that organs hold memory's wether science backs the idea or not. I suppose it links in with the fact that body's can reject transplants due to various reasons (forgeirn bodys?) Every fiber of our being's HAS to know our mind in some way. For example, you notice as you type, you barely even think about it? Your fingers just go straight to the keys.
Great thread btw, better then some of the crap thats floating about on these forums lately.
Ya know, I have always thought that was possible.But have never known anyone personally that, that has happened to.
I do have a theory that our own cells from our ancestors carry a memories. of our ancestors.That some of our dreams or visions are simply the memories of our family that play over for us to see.
Well yeah, I think it's quite possible that people take on these traits because of the genetic material brought in by the organ. Or something like that....I don't know enough about genetics to say exactly, lol.
Cells hold memory, that is for sure... The memory of the donor lies at a higher and more complex energy level... it takes time for the energies from the two different bodies to interact and work together...
There were some cases of people which, after transplant, reported memories and dreams that were proven to be fragments of life from the donor person.
I for one believe that yes it is possible for that to occur as in previous posts. Just like in the new Jessica Alba movie i think its called the eye. They hold memories, so yes i would agree that picking up charatoristics from the donor is highly possible.
just saw the movie the eye with jessica alba in it and they said cellular memory comes from the amino peptides
In massage, we acknowledge the concept that each cell in the human body is encoded if you will with the experience that is the human life. So, if that is indeed the case - then every experience good or bad is locked within your cells. Some are believing this to be the case.
For example - a person is "cured" of cancer. Well does anyone inform the cells of this?
This could help to explain the reoccurance of cancer later on.
Who knows, I certainly don't; but it is food for thought as it were.
I don't think the answer is what would happen but why it would.
How could a spirit from a donor come partially and affect another because wouldn't that then damage the person who was the donor in the 1st place????
I think it is the cells that is holding the memory... Like how muscles do.... you can stop doing the sport, and when you go back to it some time later, your muscles remember!!!
So If I need an organ from a donor, I can bet that there are going to be some new additions to my personallity and or character. That is pretty scary considering the fine example of the suicide heart.
I for one believe that it is possible to gain some of the characteristics of the donor. I have seen a child that was given an organ of my mother in laws and the child had picked up some things from her. Such as her hair and the way she would talk to people.
Oh yes, definitely I believe in it. I didn't used to. But I saw an Oprah where they were talking about it, and had someone on there that had had a transplant and they talked about how they now liked things that the donor liked, whereas they didn't before. This was confirmed by the parents of the kid that passed away. The one that recieved the organ didn't know of any of this. I believe it was a kidney or liver. That seems to be more effective, as it contains more DNA, which is what makes a big difference apparently.
They now have memsistors. The next evolution of transistors. They have the ability to remember how much current has passed through them and have the ability to retain memory. And if science can do it, who is to say it can't occur naturally.
I know someone mentioned Transference already so I'll deal with the science of cellular/genetic memory specific.
The concept of genetic memory is one that has been around for many years. The amount of information stored in DNA is astounding and since most DNA is "junk DNA" (as far as function) one might think it's possible.
The short answer is no, cells do not contain memories. But they do contain physical and mental characteristics (thus transference) which can be misunderstood as memory. Then theres the possibility of a psychosomatic response if the receiver knows the donor or is expecting to have a psychological/physical change, again misunderstood as memory.
Still the question is how? It's rather simple, each organ contains specific markers and a basic form of "stem cell DNA" (being general here guys). When an organ is transplanted it thinks it's been damaged and will try to repair itself. At the same time the receivers body will try to repair it's own missing organ. Through a complex and boring process the organs DNA (and thus the donors) will find it's way into other areas of the persons body, reproduce, possibly mix due to break down, etc etc and poof you have perceived memories :)
Anyone ever see that film 'Body Parts'? I'm reminded of that as I read this thread.
A man who lost his arm in a car accident was offered an experimental procedure to graft a new arm onto the stump. The arm worked fine for a while until one night he woke up to find the hand attempting to strangle his wife...
As the film goes on it turns out that the arm came from an executed death row murderer, and he was basically carved up and shipped around. His other arm, both legs and even his brain ended up in or on other people, all of whom started with crazy visions and urges to kill. The guy who got the brain was an artist and started painting pictures of the murders the donor had committed.
It's a good film and while it exaggerated the idea of cellular memory, anyone interested in the phenomena would probably find it a good watch :-)
I belive their soul is still with the organs and carry on threw the other person
In several years now working as a surgical nurse - I've never heard of any transference. When you get into the mechanics of surgery - you're really just replacing or repairing parts - just like working on a car (only the engine keeps running while you're working - hopefully.) I don't think that the organs hold any type of memory - the kind you would imagine, like remembering the person they came from.
I know that there are many religions which consider the blood, body parts or organs sacred and don't allow them to be exchanged - but I think that the HUGE part of transference may be psychological - as in the person receiving the organ is going through a very traumatic experience - sometimes having been staring death in the face for months or years..so they connect in a really big way to their donor.
I mean, how grateful would you be if you'd been on death's door for years and someone FINALLY donates an organ and saves your life? Probably grateful enough to imagine a connection with the donor. As for the changes in outward appearance - like curley hair going straight - or vice versa - most transplants are followed by huge courses of drugs to suppress the immune system and then HUGE courses of drugs to help build immunities again - so those drugs can cause a lot of outward changes including skin pigmentation changes - which can be shocking to see.
Blah- anyway, just my opinion...
agree with whoever said, "cells hold memory, how could they function if they didn't"
Weird.
I think it's probably scientific, but it's always possible that it could be spiritual as well.