The Ultimate Vampire Resource and Directory

I was wondering in a cemetery that was used from the early 1800's to the early 1900's, why would one grave be outside of the cemetery's outer edge?

i'm not sure, that makes me wonder... but do you have more info...

Maybe they special requested it or their family wanted it. Or the grave was there before the gate was built and wasn't in the boundaries.

that's weird. I don't know why, but maybe you should ask the groundskeeper?

It is in one of the United States top ten cemeteries, number ten to be exact. The area is called Egypt Valley and has many legends and stories behind it. There are two cemeteries in the area but the one the grave I am speaking of is in Salem Cemetery. I could not read the name of the person or the date. I took pictures on a disposable camera but I have not had a chance to get them developed yet.

Maybe just someone who was very poor?

There could be a number of reasons as to why the grave is off set from the others. It could have been they were at a lower income then others and that was a place where the lower class townsmen were burried. It also could have been the starting of a new section and they were the last to be burried in that cemetery due to a numerous reasons.

There are many explainations as to why this could have happened.

I have ran into this on numeros occasions.

If you can get ahold of public records it might explain some history of the cemetery. Sometimes this is the easiest way to find things out.

I agree with myinnerdemon....you might get more results or a better answer if you ask the groundskeeper or better yet go to the local library and see if they have records of town back then and all the obituaries.

Perhaps it was just misplace. Maybe the headstone was knocked over or something and when it was set back up it was place in the wrong section. Or if there was fencing the fence was just not place in the right location. There are so many reasons for it. If it concerns you ask. If it's a family member ask. If not, really what does it matter?

I have looked into information at the library and have no clue who is the care taker. The newer part of this cemetery is still being added on to but this fence is new and even when my grandmother was little and visited there with some of her relatives, it was outside the fence. There is no other graves outside of the fence as I said. Another thing is that the grave was facing a different way completely from every single grave in the cemetery.

I cannot find much information on the place itself because it has a very bad history as I said. No one around here will even discuss the area with me except tell me to stay around from it. There is a legend about witches being buried there or Circle Cemetery (about 3/4 miles away), so could it have been someone they believed was a witch?

I would be curious to know when you found out

I was just curious and had an odd feeling about it so I decided I would ask on here and see what others thought.

Well I'm glad at least that this thread isn't about someone vandalizing gravesites (a rather immature and poor display of bravado that takes place far too often).

As to the actual question...a grave outside the graveyard, a fairly common reason has to do with property lines. Older graveyards were usually set apart a bit from the town and had an ever expanding property line without a real need for strict ownership (sort of town property).

When a city comes close enough to a graveyard or is modernized with property lines and fence lines, the attempt is usually made to bring some organization to it all and to draw rather clean lines around it for records. It would not be surprising depending upon the planner, to work off a survey map and not the actual visual of the site. So if a marker or gravestone isn't mapped, it doesn't get to the planner and doesn't get enclosed. This would be especially true if it's placement was away from a clean line of a border. I'd only think that it was on purpose if the fence line seemed to go out of it's way to keep that marker out.

About three to four feet on that side of the fence is cut and taken care of. And on the other sides there is about two feet where the grass is cut and rocks removed.

But why would the grave be facing the other way?

Okay I didn't clearify that enough. The cemetery is on a hill. All the graves are facing the "normal way" as is tradition even in newer cemeteries. The grave in question is facing with it's side towards the sun either way and it's back towards the other graves.

If the grass is being cut and rocks removed than I'd be even more strong in my belief that the line for the fence 'missed' that grave and that the caretaker is doing his best to make do and still care for it. Does the fenceline seem to try and follow a line or maybe the softest slope of the hill or does it seem to purposefully cut out that grave? Is there any physical aspects of the hill that would make fencing that area differently more difficult? It didn't occur to me that because of the hill, they may have placed the fence in the only places that would keep it standing.

I've done some more research on it and it looks like there was a church near that section that was burned down. That means that there may be other graves that were lost and sections of the property were mistaken.

It sounds like there is quite a vandalism problem out there and that the locals set up guards on shifts at times. So the fence may have been set up as an anti-vandalism fenceline which would be really unorganized and based on the labor of those involved (ie easier to plant the fence where it was that change directions to include the lone grave). Is the fence you're talking about the wood and wire fence I've seen in pics?

There might be another possiblity that no one has brought up either. Is that the person might have done something wrong. Who knows. Would be interesting to find out the reason why though.

I would have to say it was merely an accidental oversight when the fencing was put up. Some engineer or surveyer didn't do thier job correctly.

I would tend to agree that it was an over sight, someone surveyed the land wrong and a fence went up where it wasnt suppose to. If the grave is being taken care of tho and its not a part of ur family i would just let it be unless it is placed on someone elses land where a house is built.

was it outside of a fenced in area? or just outside the normal range appearing to be the garveyard?...I have seen a graveyard that was fenced in and graves close to the fence on one side were starting to topple because it bordered a river...I suppose water rising and dropping is causing the river base to expand....I thought what happens when the grave actually becomes exposed...???

i agree it is probably an over sight on the part of the serveyer as far as where the grave is.

Yes the fence I am talking about is the wooden and wire one seen in the pictures. It would not have made them go out of their way to include it. The hill is in perfect shape and the headstone has not been moved. The church was on the other side of the road and the fire did no damage to the graveyard. My Mom thinks that the person may have been accused of witchcraft or have been looked down on. Especially since there was a church there.

The fence was put there because it is a nature reserve and out of towners who come there during hunting season show no respect for the graves there or at Circle Cemetery. I cannot see who the grave belongs to and I have a picture of it but will not get them back for about five days if I get a chance to pick them up then. There was also other reasons the fence and guards are placed there that the internet does not state. There are cults that practice down there, ignorant people who use the religion Satanism as an excuse to hurt people so the cemetery is usually locked and very hard to open as I found out because of that mischief too.

Well the Salem section of that Ohio graveyard IS full of rumours of witchcraft so you might be right. It could be because of the name (Salem) that the rumors floated, but there were supposed trials and burnings. I haven't found anything conclusive on that but it was pre-civil war so we're talking about some superstitious townsfolk.

idk... maybe the fence wasnt there before, and the stone was the beginning of a family section and then there was a boat wreck that killed the rest of the family and their bodies were lost so that there was nothing to bury in the graveyard and when they put up the fence they just didnt see the other stone. theres 100's of possible reasons, and as retarded as mine sounds it could very well be true. who knows ? this happened so many years ago if there is or was any sort of deliberate exclusion, maybe no one will ever know... too stoned, i know im an idiot.. w/e

Could be an oversight. In some places in older days, If you were a suicide, the church wouldn't allow you to be burried in "hallowed ground" (aka church/ town cemetary). They would burry you outside the church wall.
It wasn't just suicides either, it would also apply to someone who they fealt had committed a horrible sin....
In the south, it was more of a case of segragation, you had the white protestant cemetary, the black cemetary, and a Jewish cemetary, and in Norfolk Va, there are wall seperating the black and white, and a street seperating the three.
It's not enforced anymore but has been left up in some places as "tradition".

Since it was facing a different way I would have to go with the last post, either a suicide or whore witch murderer any number of sins could have forced you to be an outsider back then.

I would suppose one of two reasons . Either the fence/gate came later and it for some reason could not go beyond where it is now (property lines or something else ) or the person was purposely placed outside of sacred ground for a specific reason .

Someone mentioned it earlier, but I would have to wonder if the person did something wrong! Alot of times in older days when someone committed suicide they were allowed in the family plot, but in an unmarked grave! It makes me wonder if something similar might have happened in this case!

thats really interesting...

at last more people respecting the graves of the dead. as i walked through halesowens cemetary on friday, i saw chavs spitting on the graves. and to think that one day it could be them in that grave. i think all graves are remarkable and behind every tombstone there lies a great story..

I've heard wives tales about that kind of thing, it was said that someone buried outside the cemetary gate was the keeper of the grave and superstition has it that if someone defiles one of the graves inside the gate that the soul who rests outside the gate will surely defile the defiler.

I can’t believe no one has brought this up….

The tradition (at least in the UK) used to be that murderers, suicides and those hung for witchery could not be buried within the sanctified grounds of the cemetery. However, if the individual concerned, or their family, had connections, or money, they would arrange for the grave to be as close to the boundary as possible to give the poor unfortunate a chance of redemption come the end of days when all those who have died will raise from their graves and ascend to heaven.

Sort of like saying “well even though not on hallowed ground, he could get sucked up with the rest of them if he is close enough”

while there could be many reasons Some old Irish beveled that the last one buried in a cemetery has to stay until a another is laid to rest sometimes if the person being buried was to be the last grave in the cemetery they were placed just outside the yard so as not to be there until the rapture

If the grave is on a hill then maybe it has just moved with the earth in a mini land slide or something similar.

Or the Boundary of the area may have been moved in time.

Although back in the old days it is known to have been the practice of some places to bury ex communicated members of the church outside of the church so as to bar the soul from the path to heaven

im not sure, thats interesting.

Thanks to everyone who has responded to my question. The hill has not slid on that side of the cemetery or any of the sides. Nothing is or was preventing the fence from being put around the grave. And it doesn't seem like an infant's grave. I was thinking maybe Thomas Carr but he is supposedly buried under St. Clairsville's courthouse and haunts it and the murder site where he killed Lousia Fox. So it doesn't seem like it would be him and there is a name on the headstone but it could not be read because of the wear over the years. I think it said "S.S. Alexander" or something like that. I am waiting to see when I get the pictures back if I can make it out for sure.

Interesting. I have no clue, I would of geussed a few things above @_@

The reason the grave may have been outside the graveyard itself could be due to the dead person being against the church, had done deads against the church or parish, may have been found to practice witchcraft or vampirism!!. Its a possibility!

Well since it is a Salem cemetery, then that person may have been cast out of the community as a witch.. There was so many witch trails back then he, or she could have been one of those poor souls that had been tried as a witch.. Please if you find out more research on on the cemetery please post it ..

Here is some information I found on the church that was located across from the cemetery. It is no longer there. It is not Salem, Massachusetts but it is located in Egypt Valley, Ohio. Most of the area is in Belmont County, Ohio. I will post a couple pictures of the cemetery if I can find them. A friend of mine found a picture of the grave I am talking about.

Okay I am having computer problems. The first picture is of the headstone and grave and the second picture is of the the older section of the cemetery.

it's possible that it was a grave for a suspected witch during the era of the salem witch trials

Talking about old graves being disrespected... this isn't in the manner you are speaking of- but I thought I would cut and paste one of my latest journal entries here so you can see...

Over the weekend we went driving around to scope out the damages of nearby Parishes due to Hurricane Katrina. Same all over- it is so wild to think so much damage happened across so very many miles. Not only the living have been devastated, but even those trying to Rest in Peace. The Hurricane destroyed crypts, and the dead were exposed. Many of them lost and could have very well been found in someone's home debris miles away. Here in Slidell- bodies in funeral homes at the time of the storm have still not been recovered. A couple pics I took:



These are just a few of the 're-boxed' corpses.

over the years property lines just change because of zoneing laws. its just that simple, nothing mystical about it.

That is one small gravestone, from the size that could have been an infant that was not baptized. Also, bastard children could not be baptized so they could not be burried on church grounds.

In the United States in the early times if you thought to be unworthy of the buried near the chruch you were faced in a different direction and outside the boundries in this case it is hard to be able to say why if there a only a few records.

it could have been a family plot that had to be sold by the family for any number of reasons and that one person was the only one burried on the plot...

It is very interesting why this could be. i did some searching on the web and came up with this site http://www.forgottenoh.com/Egypt/salem.html

From some of the pics its like the main sign for the cemetary, it is shaped like a head stone. But anyhting is possible and on the site there is a contact page.

Keep us all informed.

I have no idea why that would like that but if you have more info i would be happy for it thanks

I am familiar with the site http://www.forgottenoh.com/Egypt/salem.html, I even have it on my bookmarked sites. The women on that site research the cemetery but did not even mention the church across from the cemetery that used to stand. Plus they were only visitors to the area. I doubt they would have went to ask for help if they knew the rest of the history behind the area. The same day my friend and I went, there was a woman assaulted down there near where we were and the police did not want to get involved. Pretty bad when the police stay away from the place at all costs. And I am aware the sign looks like a headstone itself but that was one of the newer additions and came as the cemetery has grown over recent years. I have been to the local library and cannot find anything about the grave outside of the fence. It surprised me one of the older people around here that has not mislead me before told me that Thomas Carr is buried in Egypt Valley and not the basement of the courthouse. That he was not even hanged in the Courthouse but out there and is buried under the same tree he was killed on. The more I question, the more the whole area out there becomes a puzzle.

Very interesting posts on why the grave would be outside of the fence line. I love old graves it gives me a sense of peace being in a graveyard. Where I live here in NC we had a small grave behind a church that had some families in it and a few civil war graves. The church decided they needed a parking lot so they tore up the graves and placed them somewhere else. But they decided to have a 10 minute ceremony after they moved them to show their respect how nice of them.....

I am not sure. Maybe it is that bad that no one in the area wants to talk about it or go there. keep us posted.

i have found this really interesting to read, I personally feel the same as someone else that it could be a child that was either stillborn, or died before being baptised. or maybe a handicapped babe...that may of been seen as bad and not wanted on church land.

I say yea to the one person that said it was most likely a witch or demon posession person..

depending on the age of the grave, there is much to be said about hallowed groud too...

Maybe the person burried was excommunicated from whatever church originally established the graveyard.

we have a lot of fascinating views on this grave we really need to find out what or who was buried there and the reason the grave faces the other way keep me posted please.

I believe the person you speak of was part of two families. There were two cemetries. The grave outside the gates was part of both families by dishonor. I believe he was placed to rest in between both cemetries !!

Very Interesting, please see if you can find out more about this.

absolutley no idea

Trus me I will keep everyone posted on anything else I find out about this grave. I am still trying to get my pictures back, hoping I can see what it says on it more clearly.

Also the grave is not between the two cemeteries. Circle (Old Egypt) Cemetery is about 3/4 mile away, which is quite a ways. And Circle Cemetery is located on a hill that is much higher then Salem Cemetery. I am hoping if I ask enough of the people around here, maybe someone will know. Only one problem, people will not tell me anything!! It is irritating me. All I know is that I shouldn't be down there and it is dangerous. I know there are rapes, murders, cult activity, etc. in Egypt Valley. And I know I probably won't go back after I go with Skyfire off of here in June. That is all so far. I know some details about the Satanic cult but found them out by accident. And I know my family is worried about me going down there and not coming back, just disappearing. It is a challenge for me and I refuse to give up on finding out what is with this one grave.

I think it the persons request sis, most of the time its that way :)

mmmm sis i see your point thats eery tho be careful :)

Oh don't worry Big Sis, I am careful as hell when down there and will probably only go back once or twice.

two things come to mind
1) the grave was dug before the gates were put up around the graveyard.

2) the person who is buried they was not of the catholic faith or the same faith of the graveyard and was not permitted to be buried in hallowed ground.

I really don't know I think maybe a zoning change in the property lines

well maybe they ran out of room, or simply like someone mentioned earlier, put up the gates after the grave was dug.

Well the zoning or property lines could be.
The sinner/witch idea is also another definate possibility. However it may have been that the person building the fence could not include it. When fencers are contracted to do a job, everything is gone by measurements. They know how far apart the main posts will be. Before construction begins thay must do their "homework" they must know where all gass/water lines etc are. also if they are constructing a fence around a cemetary it would be prudent to know where the actuall coffins are, not just markers. The posts have to be set pretty damn deep in the ground to hold a fence, and it may be that where they measured for the post to go, there was a body underneath it. with out desecrating the grave they found reason to build the fence line leaving the grave outside.
This is also very possible considering you said that the grave was facing the wrong way, if so the body/coffin could also very likely be facing the wrong way and so obstructing construction.

course i like the witch idea more...it just sounds more fun and errie....lol

Hmmmm.......I'm not sure but maybe their family chose it to be that way or maybe someone could have moved it. That kind of makes me wonder.

The reason I think that, that grave was separate from all the othere's is because that person was either accussed of being a witch, commiting suicide, or commiting a horrible crime. Because in those days a grave apart from everything represented those things I just listed.

the person might have asked for that spot.

i work at a cemetery and do have a few of the graves that are apart from others in wierd positions. and most of them are from the mid to late 1800s. i do know this area was rich in witchcraft and other magics at that time. so it is very possible that it could be the idea of witchery or something to that nature as to why they are the way they are.

most cases involving graves,and the oppesite direction,are do to the fact that they were witches burnt at the stake,or vampires,lykens,sounds like it has some very interesting history

i've heard a few stories about things like this (growing up in what used to be the gallows from the salem witch trials these things come up) i think ive actually heard about the grave your talking about in a documentury on this sort of thing years ago but cant quite remember most of the time when graves were purposefully placed outside a cemetary perimeter and faced the other way it was becouse they did something the community so as completely wrong and immoral such as witchcraft it was done to brand people even in thier death so that hundreds of years later people would still know they did something wrong

You probably did hear something hun because it is considered to be one of the United States most haunted cemeteries, Number ten this year I do believe.

The only thing with the witchcraft theory is that were they not usually left unmarked?

This grave does have a name on it. The only problem is I cannot really make out what it says.

if there is a name on it like it had been engraved then the theory of the old church being burned down and certain graves being missed by mistake might come into play. Because your right usually if you were thought a witch you weren't even worthy to have your name on a tombstone is some places. Unless the loved ones decided to go and put a name upon the stone and if thats the case then well its back to square on on why its outside the fence line.

i cant stand people that disrespect ed graves.

i hate people that disrespect grave i bet the person who put it there was asoultly drunk or stupid

Wow.. That is very odd.. There could be numerous explenations. It could have been there long before the rest of the cemetary.. it might not be on cemetary ground.. someone might have made a mistake.
Ask the groundskeeper.

i agree,
if it was on intention to disrespect, it wouldnt be v. funny, and i think the grave may have had some cultural issues, as in the family refused to bury it near another source, or the rest of the cemetary refused to have it buried near them b/c of something supernatural maybe??

i think they just messed up on the fencing.

it is possible that the person in question disrespected the church in some way.... the most likely choice is one of two things: they were accused of witchcraft or they were found to be guilty of being gay.... the only other explanation that I can think of is that the person did something bad enough for the family to curse the person within the grave and they feared the curse would come back on them so they buried the person so they could never find their way into the cemetary to repay the curse

Maybe they committed scuicide and such and could not be burried in the full cemetary.

There are some instances wher the town peoples would not allow some one or people to be buried in a sacred place such as some cemetries therefore they HAD to bury them on the out side and facing away from them because they did not recognise them in the same respect as the ones that where allowed to be buried within... It may sound crazy yet people have done that in fear of the undead or satanic worshiper, hell even witchcraft... small towns are still super.. of things like in Salem and New England ETC...~~~ well just another out look on it, Hope you figure it out...

when u die they place rip well on holy grounds is were there is suppose 2 b peace and if ur not there then ur not in peace.

Yes, it could very well be because they died with no honor, so to show no respect by burying them in a different place possibly.

you have thought of a lot of reasons.. as witchcraft suicide or other things... but there might be some others...

almost everyone who lived in the us that time was christian, but maybe there were some jews too and there is the slight chance that there was a muslim too as europe contains a lot of muslims and there might have moved some to the states (if you look at albanian and bosnian history you will see that). i dont know how jews are burried but i know how muslims are burried.. the graves look all to the east towards mekka...

i really dont know if this makes sense... but just wanted to mention it as another possibility although the chances that this might be the reason are very slight

In many cases, people were buried outside of consecrated "Hollowed grounds"..Due to all sorts reasons including that of a suicide..Only people who they believed died in grace (Alright with God) were buried within..This is no disrespect for this person unless you look back and find they had intentionally moved then reburied in this fashion. It is just the way things used to be.......This is my understanding of things not ment as I know everything I most certainly don't know everything..I'm glad I don't my brain is already over loaded at times with Jepardy type info of which most is quit irrelivent

I've seen a number of grave stones in the shape of trees taller than six foot. Why is that? Somone once told me it was because they were a Pagan or someone considered a witch or something demonic. Anyone wanna straighten that out for me?

I think some of the other posts on here are dead-on. Read up on the subject. You may find an explanation that noone here has hit on.

I was taught that people who were buried outside holy soil, has disrespected the church (witches, pagans, heathens, people like that). But of course, there may be other reasons as well.

Thinks people should die for disrespecting the dead !~

Was the cemetary attached to a church. if the grave was older it wasn't uncommon fo somone to be burried off the "church or holy grounds" if they didn't share the views of the church but were still a citizen of the town.

MahKat is right there in many cases they did do that a person of a different religion wouldn't be buried in certain grave yards due to not being that faith...The cemetaries we have now are nothing like the old ones which were church run you wouldn't find a pagan nor someone who was Jewish in an old Catholic cemetary..Infants born out of wedlock as well often had no head stones even but were never buried within church grounds

Sooo many possibilities...most logical would be an oversight, but if we always went with logic where would be the fun in that....be sure to let us know the more you find out.

don't know

Im not sure exactly what gives me this idea... but i have a lurking feeling that the person in that grave used to tend the rest of them.... .......wait... is my gamer mind just thinking back to zelda 64 as adult link........... *drinks more mountain dew and shuts up..... it is 4:30am ya know..*

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