Do you think that Elizabeth Bathory was a cold blooded murderer ? Or do you believe that she thought the blood of all the girls she killed would keep her young forever? Kind of like A Fountain of Youth?
i belive that she thought it would keep her young. though i also think that she adored blood and that that played a role in it as well.
i think She Was into the nature of blood..
And I also believe she use it to Keep her youth.. Or for youth in general.
So All in all i dont think she was a murderer..
In my opinion the only way you can be a murderer is to have a passion for killing. I dont think she did.. I think she just wanted Blood.
i think she was just some twisted insane woman with too much time and money, along with being of royalty. and just only cared about her own youth to care about anyone else
but in that day and time noone actually knew there was no way to stop the cycle of aging and she did what she thought may have worked. also she may have had a distorted vision of the past and what could have stopped her from aging
well people always thinks she bathed in virgins blood to stay young that is not always true she did it for the fact that u can only have true power over all when u drink from virgin blood
I think she was an insane woman who without any control over her was allowed to use her desire for blood and youth to destroy younger women, taking away their beauty and getting her jollies too. So I believe she was a murderer.
I think she truly believed that Blood would keep her young and that she did have a facination about Blood so if you put the two together then who is to say she was insane or a murderer? She believed in what she did was right for her, even if it meant that it was at the expense of those girls, rich crazy who is to say. she firmly believed it. I would not judge her on it by any means. She was different that is for sure.
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Cartomancer Arch Sire (194) Posts: 1,252 Honor: 31,129 [ Give / Take ] |
How could a woman who killed between 600-700 people NOT be a murderer and simply someone who liked blood, gimme a break. She was a freakshow.
How can any sane person justify hundreds of killings to bathe in the blood? I don't care what you get your kicks on or what you are confused about in the lines of beauty products.
I remember some years ago I read a book on Bathory and I came away thinking she was much more than a murderer, that she was more a serial killer. She devised incredible machines of torture just to kill the girls. Like the Iron maiden. And she didn't always kill just for the girls blood, there was one story were she covered a maid in honey and tied her naked and spread eagled over an ants nest just to watch her die. I think the girls crime was that she moved a hair brush so the Countess thought she stole it. At the time her husband came home and he joined in on her games of torture.
The woman would come up with all sorts of excuses and also didn't bother with them at all just to torture and maim as much as possible.
I have always put serial killers above murderers, mostly because there is more of an insane blood lust in them. But hey thats just my opinion and I don't expect others to fall in with my beliefs...
Blessings
Ω Rogue Ω
she killed people didnt she? that makes her a murderer, no matter what her intentions. murder is still murder.
Clearly BOTH. We know why she killed and we know that she killed. So both.
And what does "witch" in the title have to do with her or even the topic started for that matter. Just because one believes blood is able to reduce/diminish the effects of age, does not make someone a witch. Crazy perhaps, but does getting a face peal make you a witch? id better have a talk with a few people in that case.
Good question AntiEveryone..
It really has alot to do with it... The people of her community seemed to think that she used some kind of power of control to get the girls in her torture chamber...
So the question is was she a Witch or did she just have a lot of persuasion?
I personally think she was just psychotic.
But then again who are to really judge anyone..
Who isn't psychotic or insane to some degree?
In all honesty, those people, sound just like the people who did up graves see blood on a corpses mouth and rip its heart out. Superstition is a plague. Look at what happened to innocent people in Salem because of "what people thought" too many assumptions. So yes I agree, she was psychotic perhaps. Well the killing definitely pushes her over that psycho edge.
I totally agree..
Its like lets kill someone for killing someone...
The crime of murder is punishable up to the death penalty depending on brutality.
But is it right to use murder for murder as a punishment..
An Eye for an Eye...
An eye for an eye? my saying is always "a head for an eye" heh. Sometimes it makes sense.
well, she did kill people to bath in their blood which classifies her clearly as murderer in my opinion
Well, my understanding of it is that she was actually mentally ill. That could be why she believed that the blood of young virgins would keep her young and beautiful (which she did believe). It does not change the fact that she murdered these women to accomplish her goal. That makes her a cold blooded killer in my book.
What was the story...that one day a maid pulled her hair while brushing it so she slapped the maid so hard across the face that a few drops of blood fell onto her hand. Bathory thought that the skin looked younger and fresher where the blood lay....and that got her started on the blood baths to keep her young. She was mentally ill and was an artistocrat and felt above the law.
I think Erzebet was simply misunderstood and was victimised un-necessarily. Most, if not all women nowadays are always seeking ways to make themselves look younger, be it make-up or even cosmetic surgery. Erzebet was just 500 years ahead of her time.
Well, she was technically a murderer, but I believe she also thought it would keep her young. Maybe she just had mental issues.
Nightprowler, agreed. Even now, many would be smiling if they knew what some cosmetic components derive from.
Hey, who knows. Seeing as how Erzebet killed SO many, maybe it worked...?
Nightprowler666
I am sure you would not be saying that had you been one of her many innocent victims. "misunderstood" she was a narcissistic murderer. And it is Justifiable because of her reasons (to look better)??? that's a pretty skewed view. Just because she sounds like an interesting person doesnt make her any less sick/fucked up.
And yes DarkestDesires, that is correct.
Surely she had something wrong with her head? Back in those days witchcraft was frowned upon heavily, I highly doubt a Monarch would have done that.
Sure she probably believed young virgins blood would keep her young, maybe even rejuvenating her innocence via their virginity, therefore making her pure.
Just my theory.
She sounds like she had a mental issue that was not addressed. I think that she thought the blood would keep her young and "pure" but not so much.
i think that her beauty went to her head. as she got older & realized that her beauty was no longer she perhaps searched for another way to look younger before the incident with the maid. after the taste of blood she finally snapped. enough of my rambling, i honestly think the woman was definitely a psychotic murderer. ...
Has there ever been anything written in the history about whether her attempts at defying age showed any results? Other then the wake of dead young virgins she left behind?
I agree that she was a murderer and like our friend Vlad in the similar topic, I believe she was a sociopath for her lack of guilt. However, I'm curious if it's believed she had been in any way successful in her desires to remain looking younger through her actions. That would still make her a sociopath but not necessarily 'bat shit crazy'.
The face value of what she did tells anyone who isn't blind that is a a murderess but I do feel that she felt she justify it. We may not accept what she says is her movtation to kill. But she believed she was right. So, really it doesn't matter whether she was a witch (which I highly doubt) or a murderess she killed alot of innocent people and is still very know today although it was a long time ago.
Well this is a discussion to get every ones opinion of the topic.. glad im getting such a good response... Have you seen the movie Stay Alive yet? It is somewhat in reference to the Countess.
murderer through and through. She was just so scared of becoming old she would try anything to stop it from happening.
I think she was a murderer, of course. But I'm thinking she had some severe mental issues...
i like blood too but i definitely do not kill people for it
its a hard judgement to call maybe she did think blood of others would keep her young but i dont think its right she killed others for her being vain.
I agree no matter how bad the lust is you should never kill
i totally agree with you crystalcore. But some people have no boundaries to what extent they would go.. especially if they have severe mental issues
she wasnt a witch!! she, i believe, was a sadist and loved the pain she caused others and possibly to see the look on her maides faces as she bathed in blood. i believe that some one dropped her on her head as a baby.
I personally do not believe that she was a witch. I believe that she was mad with power to do what she wanted and the more she gt away, the more she wanted. Her twisted beliefs became he own personal religion. Until the end...*smiles*
I do think her logic told her that the blood made her younger. However I believe she got enjoyment out of it. ..She was a spoiled demented , snob in my opinion and selfish to boot ....It was all a vanity issue to a certain point I always thought she would possibly have believed if she killed those around her that were pretty then in her eyes she would still feel like the most beautiful .I know some people who are self proclaimed witches, not one of them I can ever fathom being a murderer.
The woman was a wacko
Murderer with power, has anyone ever heard of growing old gracefully. Obviously she had mental issues or just a lack of moral reasoning. No matter what her justification it is still murder.
Elizabeth Bathory. Well sure, she was a murderer. Anyone who empathizes with what she did and justifies her actions using any excuse, lust, need, whatever, needs a stone cold reality check.
A human life is a human life. I know back in the day - "peasant girls" were thought not to be worth the same as a regular life; still, one would think that somewhere in the back of the mind something would be whispering, "erm... I think perhaps we'd better stop this."
It would seems as though she felt she was above the law, and therefore unaccountable... Still, I'd very much like to get more information (perhaps journals) that would speak to the above or else speak of bouts of paranoia or delusions of grandeur to match the events handed down in her story.
Tis difficult to find journals from that era tho, isn't it?
No appology necessary sacredDefiance.. I may have worded it incorrectly.
But i thought it a very interesting topic as well... And am getting some very good responses.. It pretty much comes down to every one thinking she was a psychopath.. If i am wrong I stand corrected.
lol dark you are 100 % right . she was as crazy as the day is light. It is an interesting topic tho and I think the thought of her being EVER possibly justified just makes everyones blood boil. It was a very good thread.I never really sat and tried analyze her until now. It does make one wonder .I wouldnt have checked this thread a few times tonight for other posts if I didnt think so . Skylla you are so right ........ she was highly intelligent.intelligence is very often border line of psychotic.
Yeah I have been back here several times to see what all everyone is saying.. I just find this topic very interesting.
How very strange I watched a documentary on her on the History channel today. She was the first documented woman serial killer. According to this show, she did bath in virgin blood. She killed between 600-800 young women in her reign. She couldn't be killed for her crimes because she was of royal blood, do she was confined to one room in her castle for the rest fo her life. I think she truly believed the blood would make keep her young but she was definitely criminally insane.
That is very interesting.. I would like to see that documentary... I am reading a book about her called. " Was Dracula A Female? The story of the Blood Countess."
Dark who wrote that hun ? Im interested in the book. I read so much about her but now My gears are turning . As I always say" like a bad accident , you dont want to look , but ya just have to " ....lol
In my opinion, the woman was a serial killing murderess. Irregardless of whether or not she believed that she was above the law or not, and that virgin's blood would make her young again, that didn't mean that she had a right (via lust or whatever excuse you might want to concoct) to kill off young women with the rest of their lives ahead of them as productive members of society.
I think her vanity made her crazy therefore my response would be:None just insane!
Killing to be beautiful and young pffttt....
gouldnkat. ill check in the morning and post it on here for you ... I left the book in the car....
Nelby had a good point. I'm suprised that more people have mentioned that Elizabeth was both a murderer AND a person who believed the blood would keep her eternally youthful. By definition she was indeed a murderer, someone who kills another person in a vien other than self-defense (and even then it can still be viewed as murder) and that she was also a pshcyotic who believed that by taking the blood she would remain young. In my opinion she was both murderer and self-proclaimed witch.
I think that she actually believed that she could atain youth and keep it by using the blood of young virgins. She was kinda wierd like that. I also think that she got off killing the girls in odd manners such as hanging them upside down and cutting their ttroat over a large tub and repeating it untll the tub was ful enough. Maybe it was a mental problom that she didn't acknowledge of for that matter even know about. She probaby enjoed it to much for her own good. It brought about her down fall.... But still I love Elizabeth Bathory any way... Shes one of my favorite "Vampire" kinda like Vlad the Impaler... Now I really love him.........
She was insane and thought the blood would keep her young forever. Because she was a noble she owned a lot of surfs and what she did with them is trully sick. Vlad had a reason for what he did, but Elizabeth was just plain sick. I hope she was not a witch. That would put a bad mark against witches.
Katarina
vlad had reason for SOME of his violence, much of it was senseless. So....she is the lesser of two evils, lucky her.
gouldnkat here is the name of the book that you wanted.
The Bloody Countess: The Crimes of Elizabeth Bathory
By: Valentine Penrose..
Hope you enjoy it.
Most royal lines are so imbreed that insanity is common. She was just a visible nut job.
I still say she was a crazy murderous nut that killed because she could get away with it and as she aged grew jealous of the young women around her. She may have convinced herself their blood made her skin look younger to justify it, but I see nothing in history to lead me to believe she was a witch. She didn't seem to do anything other than kill for her own pleasure and benefit. If she'd been a witch wouldn't there have been some other signs of her practicing witchcraft? I never heard of any.
No matter what she is she made her stamp on humanity and sure as hell confirmed her place in History.
I agree both that she was insane and that she wanted blood and back then the only way you can get blood is to kill the person.
Yes very crazy( rain man didn't have s**t on her) and she was very much a murder. Maybe in her time blood was thought to be some kinda magic pill to her.
But murder is murder even in her times.
gouldnkat here is the other book i was telling you about.
Was Dracula a female? by Raymond Mcnally.. Hope you enjoy it
i believe that she knew something that most others didn't. i think that was her way of enlightenment.
well I noticed that many have commented on her use of blood and the murders..
If you read up on her, she not only murdered all those girls for decades she also tortured them. They were sent to her manor and then tortured in some of the most unspeakable manners of the time, and when they were close to death she bled them out to bath in their blood.
That sounds like a sick twisted fuck, If I have ever heard of one...
There was no enlightenment.. she had money and power and because of things she was allowed to become one of the worst female serial killers of all times....
awe ty for remembering me darkchyld and for the names. I came back hopeing you had the names..lol..Im in the sticks so seeing I dont get ut much Im going to try to see if I can order them online. Thank you again sweetie
I think she thought blood was some sort of a youth syrum, and not without a scientific basis either! There is conclusive evidence that a certain treatment (Such as bathing) in human blood would prolong life, yet in no way would a blood bath restore youth without some supernatural influence or deal, such as a demonic contract. The facts on Elizabeth of Bathory are a bit fuzzy, and there's just not enough conclusive evidence to suggest a definite reason.
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Cartomancer Arch Sire (194) Posts: 1,252 Honor: 31,129 [ Give / Take ] |
The fact that she was royal and rich afforded her the opportunity to do it- it gave her the means to act on her craziness. And she was saved from execution because of her royalty.
She was a twisted, evil person. Having a bloodlust does not make it okay to take the lives of hundreds and hundreds of people. I have a love for money, but I don't rob banks and steal from others and think it's okay because I had a lust for it.
Elizabeth Bathory was wicked person who just so happened to be in a position to act out her disastrous desires.
I read somewhere that she didn't actually start killing on purpose. She got some blood on her from another person that she hit or something, but didn't kill her. She then thought that where the blood splattered on her that it made her skin more youthful looking, so that's when she started killing young girls. She killed over 600 girls. She did do some very brutal torturing to them.. so it still makes her a little insane. I think it'd be a neat movie if they came out with one bout her.
Elizabeth Bathory was a murder.. She killed 600 girls.Some of the girls was torcherd by being stripped of their clothes , and thrown out in the cold ...
Its is said that she had beaten a girl so badly that blood poured forth from her skin , and splashed out on Elizabeth ..She had looked into the mirror the blood made her feel younger from there she decided to to bath in the blood ...She killed so many then her taste grew to girls of stature started to disappear .. The king of the time had her arrested , her sentence was to be walled into her tower of her castle and that is where she died..
What people will do for vanity. She had to have been insane, no one in there right mind would kill and torture innocent people.
XxTragicBeautyxX
It is true that she got blood on her, and it inspired her to kill. But "she didn't kill on purpose"? I don't get what you are saying. That girl that bled on her, lived I do believe...I am pretty sure anyway. And whoever Bathory killed, was no accident, and was done with intent. That one incident probably drove her, woke up a dormant beast.
Murderer! She used the blood and killed the most inocent people (vergins) for her own gain and selfish desires.
(VIRGINS)
She was having her hair cut by a servent girl,who in turn cut her finger with the scissors,the blood dripped onto Bathorys hand,when she rubbed it in,the blood made the skin *appear* smoother and younger.Upon seeing this,she had the girl stripped her throat slit and she drained her in the tub.She bathed in the girls blood,and that is where the story of The "Vampire"Countess began.
AntiEveryone- I didn't mean it like she didn't literally kill all those girls on purpose. What I meant was, she didn't exactly START killing on purpose. She found out she liked blood by accident. If that makes any sense...
From what I know of Elizabeth, she believed that blood was the esence of life, to take it from the young was to extend her own life. But she also had an affection for it. She loved the feel of it against her skin. Then of course, she got a taste for murder.... but of course that is just my opinion on her :D
Well from what I have heard she only used the blood of the most prettiest children/young ladys of her village/town. She would bath in there blood to seek the youth and beauty from them. I think she was jealous of them and sought something she didnt have or wanted the eternal life. In my oppinion she is a serial killer and question any vampireness.
a cold blooded murderer. She just didnt kill the girls, she tortured them. she didnt just bath and dring their blood, she beat, whipped and cut it out of the girls. Some of them were under 12.
she put her own vanity above the life of others, and therefore she is a murderer. it doesn't matter if she is insane or not.
well from reading all these replys i think we can safely say she was mental....
anyone know any virgins ?????
gouldnkat.. the name of that one book i was telling you about.. sorry i gave you the wrong title... here is the correct one incase you want to look it up..
Dracula Was A Woman: In Search of The Blood Countess of Transylvania.
by: Raymond T. McNally..
Hope you enjoy it.
ahhhhhhh good thing I have been checking back ...lol Ty . I got it wrote down
I'd have to say she was a murderer; look at all the people she killed. I think she was out of her mind, bathing in other people's blood to keep herself youthful? That's just nonsense.
The History Channel told the story of Elizabeth Bathory as this:
A maid accidently pulled her hair while brushing it, she slapped the maid across the face and a few drops of blood fell onto her hand. Bathory rubbed it into her skin marveling that the skin looked younger and fresher where the blood had soaked into her skin. Her partner in crime was, for lack of a better term, her Butler. They concocted a plan to send word to all the towns and villages under her leadership that she was starting a "finishing school" for young women. She wanted to make sure she only got virgin blood as that was the purest. Thus all the young, single women wanted to come to the castle so they might better themselves and attain a better suitor. What they found out was the there was no such school and the maidens were kept against their wills. She would, as stated above, torture and torment these women before she slit their throats of decapitated them and bathed in their blood. She was basically the only royal bloodline in that area of the country but when the King heard of her exploits, he put a stop to it, but not before 600-800 young maidens had been put to death. She was of royal blood therefore she could not be killed outright, so the King was forced to confine her to one room in her castle...and there she stayed until her death. Her accomplice, I assume, was killed for his role in the slayings as he was not a noble. So, this woman was definitely a serial killer. She had no remorse, no conscience and no moral code. While she may have been mentally ill, she most definitely was criminally insane. She liked what she did, she reveled in it. She enjoyed seeing the terror in those maidens' eyes, knowing she was going to kill them. As for the comparision someone made between her and Vlad the Impaler....I would gladly take my chances with Vlad then with this psychotic murderess!
Murder. If she were a witch she would have found another way to get her energy than KILLING GIRLS to collect and bath in their blood. Crazy murder.
Damn, slapping someone across the face drawing blood eh?....*fetches her slapping glove* I have never in all my life seen that happen, Bathory was one tough bitch I guess, lol ;)
you know people posting the response "she was a murderer" as if they are adding to anything or answering the question......YES it is FACT that she murdered people....therefore rendering her a "murderer"...we know this well! ok just thought id help clear that up.
In the show I watched she had these huge rings on her fingers and when she hit the girl acorss the mouth, she tore her lip...hence the blood.
well said images..... i think she was a murder a nut job....... one who thought that blood would give her what she wished for ......... but all and all she was just an insane murder........
It is clear that she was both. Of course she was a cold blooded killer. And as far as the blood, she did think that it was her key to eternal youth. I do know one thing...Most gypsies still won't enter her castle, and the ones that will, won't enter without doing a blessing first. So that tells me that she must have been into the black arts somehow.