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I wasn't sure if there was enough interest to keep this going, but I have been informed otherwise, so here goes with my most recent line of questions.

Something that has been inspired since I last posted...

Does "internet touching" count as touching? Meaning, when I type ^returns the hugs^, does that count as a touch since it was the act of a touch, only imagined instead of physical? Can the thought of someone touching you mean that same as the actual physical deed?

The meaning behind it may be the same but I beleive nothing replaces the real thing.

The centiment of the act is the same. It is not a 'physical' touch, it can not be confused with true contact.

No, that's more of a comforting thought to me... like another way of saying, "How are you?" or "I've missed you."

A hug is a hug.. words and thoughts are different.

Words can b powerful, and it can touch a persons heart, but the feeling of a touch can send sensations throughout the body as well as the heart. The both are entirely to different types of feelings.

I don't think that "Internet touching" is a form of touching. Touching should be felt, you cannot feel this "internet touching." Sorry, if I'm not good at this. It's my first time at this.

I believe that there is feeling behind the words, kinda like when you write a loved one a letter. Still there is no replacement for the real thing.

No, I always thought of it as a sweet jesture as HAGD or LIVE,LAUGH,LOVE. I never thought of it as physical.

words are nice, but it's different then a real hug (touching)

gestures and actions should not get confused.. when i *hug* someone here, that is a gesture.. when I give my mom a hug, that is an act.. just my .02$
D

Nothing can replace the real thing, but the touch of the heart through words can be healing even if the physical contact cannot be given.

I'm a visual person myself, so "internet touching" often means the same to me as an actual physical thing would because I can see it so clearly in my mind. But that's just me.

I would think that this kind of touching would depend on how vivid your imagination. The mind is a powerful thing and if the mere thought of a touch can inspre feelings of an erotic nature I dont see why it cant insprie feelings of well being also

Touching is just not like it sounds to touch is to feel unless u feel it in your skin and bone u aint been touched whether it be physically or imaginatively.

To answer my own question:

I think "internet touching" cannot replace the actual act, but it is still something that can be appreciated. I know that when I am ranting to a friend that lives several states away and he sends me a hug, it helps me feel better.

I think the knowledge that if he were to actually be face-to-face he really would be giving me a hug helps with that. I don't actually feel the hug, but I can recall the feelings of security that I feel when I am getting a hug.

So while a cyber-touch can't replace a physical touch, it can help a person calm down/feel better. There has to be some validty in it because people use their imaginations/memory to recall how the touch feels. If there were no validty in a cyber-touch, then people wouldn't have cyber-sex, which is the ultimate form of touching.

i completely agree Party@midnight. Nothing is as good as the real thing, but definately internet ~hugs~ can touch you in a different way.

A real hug is so much better then just typing *hugs* sometimes that can just make you wish you did have someone there to hug you

to me it's the same..you're conveying the same message..althought I 'd much rather have ther real thing

It depends on the situation. I feel things that I type or listen to or read so to me internet teaching is real. However, it is not as real as the real thing.

Alrighty... this on came up in conversation the other day with a friend:

Since everyone seems to agree that there is importance in touch, what sorts of changes should be made to make touch among adults easier to handle?

I really think a lot of these issues arise from not only abuse, but also from the sexual taboo in society. From young ages, kids are taught to not touch each other because it is not appropriate. Kids and teens are taught to shy away from touch from fear of ridicule (homosexuality, sissyness, etc.) and misinterpretation.

Granted, I speak from an American point of view. Those of you here from other cultures may have no idea what the problem is. It is my understanding that other cultures do not fear touching each other or being close as much as Americans do.

To give an example of this fear:

My friends and I were called The Slut Gang at church, of all places. Why? Because we hug, kiss, hold hands and sit on each other. This was before any of us had sex. We were always covered neck to toe in clothing. All we did was touch each other, and all the sudden, we were sluts. We were a gang because we were always together.

Another social taboo is that of the shoud of 'sexual herassment' I gave an adult co-worker a hug that she needed so much she almost asked for it. It upset another co-worker. Can you imagine the conversation I had with HR. After all was said and done, we came to the conclusion that ifit should happen again it should be done in my department where there were a lot less employees and a few more doors to be closed.

There are plenty of cases where people who are abused shy away from touch and i think part of their recovery is allowing others to touch them in a nonhurtful way. Individuals that know people who have been abused should try and slowly make more physical contact with them in order to provide comfort and a stepping stone to recovery. I could not imagine a life without touch and it must be so difficult for ones who are scared of a simple embrace.

I dont know how we can make it more acceptable for innocent touching. My close friends and I have always hugged each other hello and goodbye. That has been the case throughout highschool, college, and even to this day. Maybe if guys are too macho for the hugs, even a hand shake hello seems to be better than nothing.

I believe that someone can be comforted over the internet.. But it is nothing like the real thing being able to give someone a hug if need be.

Yes and no.

Yes because we as social creatures are aware of the emotions that go along with various kinds of touches but to recieve the full effect an actual touch is still needed

I would like to believe in the power of suggestion, as "hugs" are usually honestly meant. If people are somewhat close, I think they can feel the vibe! I like to think of it as a warm feeling. Although we are not actually touching, the mind probably intercepts the vibes, or feelings expressed. When someone I am talking to someone here sens me a hug, I feel a good feeling inside!

I agree with what she said above me. I would also like to think that when I say hugs to someone I am close too they feel it like I do. Words and actions are different but expanding your mind can change that.

I agree with what Meeper said as well..

Its not physical but it is touching to the soul...

i think it works better if its physical. then you can feel what you are touching, hugging. . .

nothing is ever going to be like the real thing, but depending upon the circumstances, there might be a time when even that is unwanted

i think so. i imagine real hugs when my friends sign off here. Take cyber sex for example. literally, its masturbation. figuratively, its real. because its the thought of that person doing those things to u that gets u off. so it would be the same with somthing simple like a hug. but again this is about perception. each person will think differently about it.

I was waitng for someone to bring up cybersex. I would like to now get thoughts about unwanted hug and the like. If we get the same feelings from the wanted attention, should we feel violated from unwanted attention. And, to what extent? Does it send shivers down your spine, or do want to file a formal charge?

I believe our hearts can be touched by words, but really its just like diet coke..nothing beats the real thing ;)

yea i would consider unwated touching a violation. because words and gestures are the same. i hug you because i want to either welcome u or comfort u. i would write that online for the same reasons, but because i cant be there, i write it and hope for the image of it to be enough comfort.

same with unwanted touching. even tho u cant physically feel something like that... its the imagining of it or even the thought of it that disgusts u.

The problem with the online version of the violation is that there is nothing you can do to prevent it. You can only take measures to curb the next infraction. With a unwanted real hug you could turn, shy away, or just say no. There is no way to prevent it online.

If you feel that way hurtsoulless, just tell them to not do that again, if here on VR you can use the block button if it persists :)

I wasn't saying that I had a problem with it.
I was just putting out the idea that sometimes people may not want to be touched in person or online. Blocking the offender wouldn't keepit from happening, only from happening again.

Preventing predators is easier now just by using your ignore button or by stating your likes and dislikes on your profile which VR allows us to do. And yes still with that it happens and usually goes away when you are stern in your response...that makes all the difference. Nothing can make you feel inferior unless you allow it.

On that note whenever you open your mind up you allow yourself to choose to feel or not to feel. You can do it in real life as well you can give hugs and not mean them or give them with very little emotion behind them. I believe it is up to you and whether you open up to the words being typed or spoken on the phone. I know that when someone I care about and someone that cares about me says or types hugs and kisses I certainly can feel the intent behind it because I have experienced hugs and kisses.

yes - at least my wife thinks so-

All power to people who have met on the internet and have ended up having a successful partnership with each other, and maybe gone on to have a family together. Reflecting on this issue, I have realised that I actually know more people nowadays who have met their partners online, rather than in umm "real life"

Real touch, is special 'tho and warmly welcomed, I am sure by those who do met online.

I believe over the internet the act of *physical* touching requires much more thought and effort put in to it whereas in everyday life it just 'happens' But wheather this makes it mean more or not is hard to define, i think that undoubtably, to me real life touching means alot more, because there is the physicall skin on skin which is where the inimacy comes fro.m

I believe that the true power from "touching" is not the touch itself but rather the energy from that touch. So internet touching can be just as powerful as a real touch if the energy is transferred in the same manor. I think it is basically determined by whether or not the person can transmit that energy to the recipient or vice versa.

Yes I believe a person can feel that kind of thing the imagination is the most powerful thing we have!!! Hypocondriacts is a great example!!

I'm not a very touchy person. I don't like being hugged, or touched. I have to be really close with someone intimately before I'm okay with them just walking up & hugging me. I'm an extremely shy person. In a way I'm glad things are kinda strict about touching co-workers, etc. Once you have a close bound with someone then you will know & they will know if it's okay. No matter how strict laws are or how much trouble you can get into.

As far as *hugs* & things like that online. I think you feel them emotionally, which is sometimes more important than physical. Online *hugs* are much easier for me, & I'm quite alright with them. It just gives you a sense of knowing that someone cares that much about you. I can feel the energy & thought behind it.

I know that the ~HUGGS~ on the internet are totally different than feeling it in real life...so to speak. BUT...when I am talking to my friends on the internet...and say, maybe I have had a rough day or something like that...and my friend types ~HUGGSS~....I feel comforted in knowing that if she or he were here, I would be truely feeling their hug.

the only way to prevent violations like that from happening online is to be honest and straightforward. u shouldnt have to block someone if u tell them upfront... dont do that. if they continue to do it adn are disrespectful, block em. they arent worth it. but u have to at least give em the benefit of the doubt... see if they will stop. maybe they dont realize at first. after the first time, then its plain disrespectful.

What about energy exchange online? I've noticed that the description of feeding is often that of an emotional interaction, a connection to someone in their energy exchange. If one could believe in remote viewing, and one also believes in energy feeding or energy manipulation, then it stands to reason that one could feed through their online interaction with enough focus, practice, or emotional connection, etc.

Ah Felix,

Finally, a mind with a care to consider the options which aren't shown in the catalogue...

Kudos to you and I agree, just for good measure. Though not, as many suggest, through the transfer via the electrical conduits, though there is a function there for it, but via direct manifestation of energy from one's being, to a visualised perception of the other and their 'location'.

I appologize if this has already been mentioned: I think that a touch over the internet CAN be significant. It all depends on how intimate you are with the indivdual involved, like your ability to project, transfer energy; and the physical responses associated with memory and strengthened neural pathways.

If you recieve an internet hug from someone who is your lover, it can be as physical as if they were there. I know a lot of people who sleep on the couch for weeks after a breakup with a lover because sleeping on the couch releases feelings of the intimacy of sleeping with someone, and there is not even any energy exchange involved with that at all.

I think that I experience the entire process of ; to hug or not to hug , when I type /erase/ type ::hug:: or ::humps:: or ::smiles:: whatever... but some poel are shallow and don't mean a hug in the physical present, so how can they mean it in the pure energy and thought?

Q if some one believes in that whole transfer of energy that Felix was talking about how can it be concecrated with out true touching. I'd think something like that would be like snorting a lb. of sugar and compairing it to a lb. of coke.
As had been reiterate, nothing compares to the real thing
But the I understand about the "touching" of someones soul, or mental being, but for me, I have to see that some one is phsically there for me, or that other part of my mind that say "connected" doesn't seem to click.

my personal opinion on this is that just typing it does not count... however, if you send the energy of the hug with your words then it does count

I would like to believe that recieving an e-hug means just as much as the real kind. Because the person sending it means something to you in one way or another. I send e-hugs all the time to my friends in other countries because they mean the world to me and contact is the best way to express that!

Well my thought on this is it something that feels warm inside and makes you feel good. These feelings are very similar as the feelings you get from physical touch. Now I personally feel I would get more from physical touch but the warm fuzzies are nice when someone types me luvi comments.

in the physical sense i believe no but it depends on the reason and how it was wrote i can turn around to someone and say hugs good nite out of friendship but a hug (or touch) in a cyber mode can be taken as real

When you type the word hug it is an expression of you .. Your sending your thoughts feelings in a verbal command. One of my favorites is the word smile. It really helps to talk to someone , and know that your really connecting with them when the smile or hug is returned.

*Smiles* at Sleen.. nicely put and worded dear :)

Apon rereading I've noticed that several people have mentioned words and thoughts being different from touch.

Now, what I am considering is: If God (hypothetically for you athiests) created the world with the letters "B" and "E" (figuratively) it must be presumed that there was some thought that preceded the word. Was touch even nessesary for this process of creation? I hypothosize that touch is only relavent on this plane of existance and even then it is not as relevant as the power of thought let alone words.


Most of us, whether we believe in I.D. or not, are aware of the occult power of words. Do people believe that our parents (or friends, teachers et. al.) words have had more influence than their touch?

Also in much of the current thinking on discipline, corporal punishment aquires less and less weight and acceptablity with authorities. Is this "the pen is mightier than the sword" approach insignificant as a hypothesis?

I also notice a thing about the touch, when a person is dying it needs a touhc, I mean alot of ppl we love when they are about ti die and can be ether their hand hold or holding someone's hand, their eyes and facialexpression is less covered with pain and sadness then a person who is alone, and then found ether by a nurse or a cop or another person. so even at that moment when the touch cannot heal the body it can heal the soul

My own personal opinion is that it means the same.... I know and understand the diffenence between an actual touch and an emotional one and believe that we need them both.

So when someone here sends me (((HUGS))) or *smiles* I "feel" the emotion and am able to react .

but to pose another question to the topic..... when someone touches us are we feeling them or are we feeling the energy that their action has caused?

example.... someone touching your arm with their fingers... did you feel their fingers or did you feel the energy of force?

To answer your last question my friend i think it is too late for this generation to overcome what they have been taught. It is important for us to teach our children about good touch and that its ok to touch each other in an appropreate manner.

Sure, we can teach them that. Then we have to kill all the lawyers who are basically trying to make the world a "no touching" zone... where no touch is a good touch.

At some day care centers it is against the rules to hug any of the children, and if you do, you lose your job...Or worse.

Yep.. there ya go. Teaching our kids some touching is good and appropriate, for sure.

For example, there is a greater amount of stock in feeding directly from an individual via touch. I find the concept of feeding via online interesting, yet unsatisfying and not even really possible for me.

a. online entities are near strangers with whom I've never had contact.

b. there is a different connection between touch and lack of touch. Feeding from an astral state of being proved interesting, but it's hard to tell that which is only in the mind and that which is 'real' when it comes to astral projection.

I have gone two weeks without my donor and without feeding and I feel like I'm ready to crawl out of my skin with madness.

So yes, touch is a very powerful thing indeed. That's about the longest string of thought I can manage to put together in this condition. My apologies.

I have a teenage daughter who is so busy most of the time that when she texts me those x's and o's on her cell I count them as just as special. When she is having a bad day at school i send her those "hugs" over the phone and I know they confort her. With people you have never physically touched before, there is no memory of how their touch feels so no, they wouldnt be significant to me.

The nurses in the NICU told me that parents who constantly touch and hold their sick babies take them home faster.

do ppl believe tha tYOu can be touched no matter how far apart You are?

It is current practice by professional entertainers (clowns, magicians, jugglers, childrens entertainers in general) to hug a child by crossing one ankle in front of the other so as not to be a sexually threatening hug.

As a teenager I used to make spare change working for scheme-a-dream as a magician/clown/juggler etc... I never did feel that comfortable being hugged by children I didn't know, and this technique would have eased some of that uncomfortable familiarity (not to mention the quick knee to the groin that kids have been known to give Mascot costumes (although THAT never happened to me.)

I saw this thread before and decided to stay out of it but I see it again and I must comment. First of all, I have not read any of the other replies. I did this so my current opinion would not be influenced, however, I fully intend to read over everything after I post this. I was very religious as a child, people would call me to pray for them(I live in the bible belt). What came later does not apply here, I attribute many things of my childhood religion to innocence and purity. But as I proceeded along this path I came across some writing, I believe it may have been Kenneth Hagan. It dealt directly with the power of touch, it described it as "a point of faith contact". In the bible Jesus used the laying on of hands and taught his apostles to do the same. A point of contact, combining the spiritual with the mundane. The woman with the issue of blood did not believe she would be healed until she touched Jesus's garment and it did not happen until she did so. As with many things, the belief is the most powerful. And what better to trigger that belief than something solid to touch?

LOL, maybe I should have read the replies first! :P

Its the melting of minds into likewise thinking..always good for a lark, doncha think Motley's?

Silent, that is very much like what I asked the first time around.

I think that touch is a tactile thing with a lot of mental associated with it. The sense of touch, like all senses, is closely connected with memory. So while touch is incredibly real, it is also supernatural in the memories and associations. This could be why some people are wary of touch, having bad memories of past touch that wasn't healthy.

What you mentioned about clowns is very interesting, but I am taking it as yet another sign that something needs to be done to make touch more acceptable.

Stabb - I agree that any transfer of energy is not likely to happen through technology and wires but more as a metaphysical manifestation of a less measurable power or energy. I don't likely think that energy manipulation or feeding is something that one could arguably measure in ohms or voltage anyway :)

Redwind - this is the question of metaphysical energy in general. Since I don't think we can look at that energy as something electrical or even measurable (at least not yet), then I'd say we'd have a hard time figuring out what conducts it, how it travels, how it connects. That perhaps we can connect on a less than physical aspect in the same way that art or music or movies can connect with us and cause physical reactions.

Kglitterous - it's also interesting when you discuss corporeal punishment that it reminds me of some current events involving the question of torture without abuse. People kept in solitary confinement without the ability to 'connect' to someone else, can lose their grip on reality. Just not seeing a face without a mask or hearing a voice without a command, or being able to write a letter, has rendered some people mentally ill. Could this not be the metaphysical energy being deprived that most might absorb strictly through daily interaction (internet or physical)?

With that thought I am reminded of various GF's and the variety of levels of magic in their touch. Some, my most recent in particular, was/is charged in such a way that she need not touch me to feel that way, nor need I even know that she is even near before I get "tingly" (at which point I know she is near.)

So why not a measurement for touch, and it's conductivity e&.

Oops, half my post was missing.

Hmmm, It is my belief that the physical, spiritual, and emotional, have parallel laws; or that a physical law may be a microcosm of a spiritual truth. For example Gravity and Love, can they both not be defines as the attraction between two bodies?

With that thought I am reminded of various GF's and the variety of levels of magic in their touch. Some, my most recent in particular, was/is charged in such a way that she need not touch me to feel that way, nor need I even know that she is even near before I get "tingly" (at which point I know she is near.)

So why not a measurement for touch, and it's conductivity e&.

I don't think it counts as touching. It lacks the actual physical connection that comes with human touch

they do say that being touched on a regular basis makes a person happier and healthier by giving a sense of security, belonging and being loved.

It's an emotional connection. Letting someone know that you care about them. But it's not the same as aphysical hug. I give internet friends of mine hugs all the time, and they return in kind. Lets us know that we care about each other as friends. But the feeling I get when I hug my wife or children is totally different and much more....emotional, spiritual, call it what you like, but it means so much more.

i agree, it's a definite emotional connection and can mean just as much as the actual hug
while i was going through some personal stuff the last few months, a friend who lives across the country was there for me... but mostly on messengers. her *HUGS* and such didn't mean any less than they would have if she had been beside me.

JayceEmirikol - true it's not the same...and emoticons and internet hugs probably aren't the best example for the real 'power of connection' but there have been more rare situations of extreme emotional connection. A friend diagnosed with disease or someone going through the loss of a loved on. In those instances...genuine heartfelt concern or condolences or just caring, can have profound impact in a way that is almost palpable. We can almost feel the energy and yet the person is perhaps miles away.

I can't argue with you on that FelixFelix. When my wife and I had our motorcycle accident I had several of my friends here on VR, as well as other firends I have on other sites, send healing prayers our way. Perhaps that explains why we've healed as quickly as we have.

:) it's amazing to me what the power of people caring and sending good feelings and thoughts can do
i am glad the healing was quick and i wouldn't doubt that the good feelings people sent helped :)
i guess to me it's not so much the actual touch, but the feelings we receive from others that strengthens us

I agree raynne. i think that a real touch is best. but an E touch or typing of a touch is supposed to evoke the same feeling as a real touch. only when one can not give a real hug, sometimes the knowledge that there is a wish for a real hug is just enough. I dont see my best friend often anymore. adn we chat online sometimes. Oh how i miss her. when i tyope *hugs* to her, i know she feels it. we have a connection. i can not hold her in person, but its the next best thing adn the thought that counts.

For me it depends on the person I am speaking to. If someone I do not know hugs me over the nets is a nice thought.

But if its someone i know and have a link with.. then the same warmth and secure feeling and even to a degree the sensation of the actual touch will happen. But that is with the few people I have a true fully formed link.

Exactly my point feline. great way of putting it.

There are people who firmly believe in the power of touch even from far away. Dom Angelus is a bit of an expert in this, and I think he may even an article about it in his journal if anyone is intereseted.

Words can be powerful enough to feel them.but you still cant beat a proper hug.

Thank you I will check out Dom Angelus's article. Im always looking for a good read or some new information for the mind to munch on.

Thank you I will check out Dom Angelus's article. Im always looking for a good read or some new information for the mind to munch on.

typing *hugs* and the hugging physically a person is totally different..

although there is a comforting feeling when someone tells you that they *hug* you, physical hug is still different..

You are welcome Butterfly :) Mental touch could be a real good experience if it works out for you.

The real act and the typed version aren't the same on a physical level of course.

But in a meta physical way, thoughts have substance too. A thought or an intention carries it's own life. I have had expierence's in which people told me *hugs* and i actually felt something around my arms.

The jester and the actual touch are not the same but if you are talking to someone and they send you a hug or kiss, it lets you know you are special and someone is thinking of you in one way or another. so no its not the same but it helps.

i belive it counts as the real thing if you know that person well enough. but if u just met the prson and you barly know anything other than whats one there profile then it dosn't count.

Internet touching leaves a lot to be desired. It may express an intent. But again, without the physical contact, it doesn't quite make it

While it does not FEEL the same as skin to skin contact the meaning is the same and it generally makes the person feel just as good as they would if you had given them the real thing

It sounds like ya speak from experience Shadowdancer.. care to tell us more? lol, I am always the curious one :)

Well from the metal mind, It would have to depend on the persons or the event would have to take place. But as if a person had a close personal connection it should allow this to happen. As from a Hug they could only think or feel as they was hugging from before. Unless I totally missed to point of this thread, Im sry. But thats my point of this View.

Most people desire and need the touch of others to survive. It is almost manadtory for humans to thrive and grow. Human contact.

touch..I guess is just that..skin to skin..
but then you would have to define what it means to touch an aura..
*shrugs*
I dont know..

I feel lord fangor that the mind may create what it needs to for the body to survive. If no other connection is available the mind creates the connection using what is avalilable. On the other hand I feel that we as humans have the ability to convince ourselves that any thing can be real if we want it to be. The state of our Union is a prime example of this atrabute.

Indeed. I agree with Lamia12. It will most likely vary from person to person. Some may shrug it off. On others it will have a more personal effect. For myself theres nothing like giving or receiving a giant bear hug when you see someone special to you.

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