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Hope this is the right spot for this thread.

Anyone familiar with mental health/illness is familiar with Diagnosis (a label that describes a group of shown "symptoms")

What are your views about people in the Goth of Vamp subculture being overly diagnosed with a type of mental illness?

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn8996-goth-subculture-may-protect-vulnerable-children.html this site goes into the goth culture and cutting. I think goth and cutting are something that are often seen as one in the same.

i never knew we had a witness.

alot of weirdo emos cut as well....just saying....

mental illness is actually un diagnosised as a whole and poorly treated when it is found....

so i dont understand where thing question is coming from...?

Exactly what you have just said. Basically, Diagnosing ( to me ) is done at the drop of the hat. It is easier to give meds, label as a (social) problem, and/or give an excuse for a behavior, rather than accepting what used to be normal ups and downs and experimenting in self identity.

What this thread was for was to just see the veiws of others, nothing more.

I don't know that we've overdiagnosed now...I do think we resort to meds too often as a solution but I think there's a balance we haven't achieved yet...either within subcultures or outside of them.

I will say that many who seek the company of a subculture like punks, goths, emos, etc...had an original reason for 'not feeling like we were part of the group' and that might have been do to some state of depression, chemical imbalance, bad home life, etc. Most in these scenes do struggle with depression or manic behavior...perhaps a bit more than other scenes. Still, I also think there's more creativity and artistic talent in these scenes and perhaps those are intertwined. Really great artists were and are almost always a little messed up in the head.

Well what defines a Chronically Normal Person?

Absolutely. I think, because of diagnosis, individuals are more likely to be lost from self identity and treated AS the diagnosis labelling them.

Doctors do just hand out drugs today. It's like oh you're here ok here's some drugs. See ya when you need a refill. It's baiscally with anything from mental health to simple things like allergies.

Rayn - part of that is also the fact that drug companies market to the end user now. So you're told to go in and talk to your doctor about Cialis or Xanax or whatever...

Still, I think that artistic and creative scenes DO tend to have more psychological issues in them. Artists do things like cutting their ear off...accountants do crosswords :)

cutting itself is addictive Im a recovering cutter

true cutters wont cut for attention (emo's)

true cutters wont announce they do it
a true cutter will always be ashamed when caught

a true cutter doesnt cut to kill one's self

just to release stress

I don't believe there is such a thing as normality, and when doctors see behavior they would deem as abnormal, they try to put a label on it instead of observing and then deciding if this is indeed "normal" for that person . And by having the need within themselves to diagnose your"problem" i feel they do end up pushing meds that may not be needed and do over diagnose people with conditions they may not have, just so they can say they have a diagnosis for that person .

I agree that artisty types do tend to be more eccentric. But I can also tell you that there are parents out there who send their kids to mental health doctors hoping for a diagnosis so they don't feel responsible for being bad parents. As a teenager I was bounced around to plenty of those kind of doctors and no two came up with the same diagnosis.

everyone has addictions for different reasons, im not ashamed that i cut. If you are ashamed then maybe your arent meant to be a cutter..

Everything that does not fint within the "normal" criteria, tends to make an easy dignasis of mental illeness

As long as they are not hurting themselves or anyone else just let them be!

Most of the people that are in the Goth/Vamp subculture are believed to be disturbed. Which I believe is not true. Too many are diagnosed with unreasonable mental illness, just because they may like things a little darker.

Anything that they don't like or understand they now classify as a mental illness, not that they even understand their own catagories.

I belive many people here to have depression and the likes, as there are everywhere in the world. I don't know if it is why thereis a vampire belief. Maybe it is some peoples reason for being drawn to the dark side. Lol.

First, a diagnosis is not from symptoms. Symptoms are what the "patient" tells the health care worker. (Ex: My head hurts)
SIGNS are what a practitioner finds, suck as elevated blood pressure, decreased heart rate or unfavorable lab values.
Both signs and symptoms are used to make a differential diagnosis.

Mental illness is often due a chemical inbalance in the brain that can be managed with medications and therapy.

It seems that people are diagnosed quickly and sent on their way with a perscription these days.

Do I think Goths are mentally ill? No more than any other group in society. Emo -ugh, I will refrain from commenting.

The cutting and any other aspect of a mental illness is a stereotype and nothing more of the name we have taken and given ourselves. You can be a cheerleader with straight A's and still cut yourself...its not uncommon for anyone who is considered "normal" to kill themselves. Just because you look happy doesn't mean you are.

"a true cutter"
WTF...if you cut, you are a cutter..
whats a fake cutter...one who uses a plastic razor?

I think it's a form of stereotyping and discrimination!

"Whoops wrong stereotype"

if they dont understand some they just put a tag of some kind on it

I did the test, I when to my psyciatrist office, one day with: all black gothic cloth, a collar, black nail polish, black lipstic, and boots military style......the doct freaked out, she was calm in aperences but she kept asking if I was in a cult, if I was thinking of cuting myself or cutting ppl, of huritng animals or myself.....she was freaking our she even said she was thiunkign fo putitng me in the metal institue for a little to "help" me.

Thne I when back all dress classic type, nice clothings (nice to their standard) a little make up, no much, she smiled and told me I was way better now and looking like feeling better....sadly that day I was depress and sad, and had not good taugh, so it shows aperences can lie to doctors and make ti ether a sick person free and going to hurt themselves or tohers, or to put in a normal sain person.

Cutters are anyone. If anyone has every done it they will know that the main reason to continue cutting is the fact that when you cut your body releases endorphins. Edorphins are the same thing released when many people do heavy drugs. That is also why many recovering drug addicts are also cutters.

I don't think that we are over-diagnosed. I was in a mental health facility for a year and I was the only "goth" there. They don't look at your lifestyle anymore, they look at your actions. I met many a person that had issues with cutting and that was directly attributed to the fact that it feels good. The thing that stops a lot of people from doing it is the shame. The shame that would come from cutting is equivalent to the shame that comes from using drugs. Oddly the body has similar reactions. So if you are going to argue the over-diagnosis of goths as cutters then you should also look at the drug use by the same group of people. That right there would show better results. Self-mutilation is a drug.

i agree with flex, studies have show that there is a very thin line between genious and insanity. the studies show that the same areas of the brain are stimulated in both subjects. interesting question and subject.

My daughter use to cut herself. It was her way of dealing with stress....she wasn't crazy. When I found out I got her help and now she's in the Air Force doing great.

Eh, the whole mental illness thing has just blown out of proportion...
Even there stereotypes are common, it bothers me to see how people assume that just because you're goth or tend to like the more dark side of life, you much be disturbed in one way or another. As if bimbos aren't disturbed... *coughs*

There is NO such thing as being "normal".

I agree with most of you. If the people don't understand then they really tend to quickly put a label on it.

Hell, when I was an adolescent, I cut myself just to see both the blood, and feel the pain. It felt good at the time. The main reason was to see if the pain would go away after doing it for a period of time, to see if I would start to get ammune to it. I stopped cutting after it became boring...I moved on.

My opologies, my answer would be yes, it is considered in my opinion as an ex-cutter per say...Over diagnosing.

Rastafarians get the same problem. because of their culture and the way they use language, they are often mis-diagnosed as being schizophrenic. Any subculture that is "alien" to mainstream is viewed as an abheration, and is generally not properly understood by those who glance at it without attempting to see through the outward appearance.

To be honest, anything out of the average persons "norm" is considered mental illness now, sadly.

So much for equality and respect for others thoughts.

But some I will admit need treatment.
Rodney Ferrell for instance. 16 years old and killed his gf's parents because he "was thirsty for blood"

Thanks Rod.
You ass.

Also, keep in mind that what is viewed as mental illness is ever changing. Less than 100 years ago, being a homosexual was viewed as a form of madness. So could being prone to arguing with your husband, as well as varying other things deemed unacceptable by society at large. I personally see it like this: true mental illness, where the brain is locked into some sort of pattern that it has no control over, and is detrimental to the patient's well-being and normal functioning, is probably pretty rare. However, nowadays, it seems to be popular to be sick in some way. I'm only saying this based on my own, amatuerish observations of human behavior, but I think it's fairly accurate. I don't have any hard theories as to why, but I'm pondering possibilities. Also, keeping the first part of this post in mind, 'mental illness' seems a lot of times to be based on what society considers 'normal' and 'proper'. One hundred years ago, the majority of people in my country were religious. An atheist would have been considered abnormal. Abnormality needs to be made normal, so the non-believer would most likely have found himself locked up. It's the same today, I think. Different views tend to upset the majority. Eh, I'll stop before this post stretches on too much more, but I'm hoping I've articulated my point.

everything that is not considered 'normal' is considered to be caused by mental illness.....how can that be true though when nobody is truly normal?......just how I feel about it.....

and most psychiatrists just want money now a days....not to help....everyone just wants money...it's not about the other persons well being.....some still do care...but a good portion don't

very simply put...Any thing that is not 100% exceptable in society is going to try to be crushed...Labled with a fancy tag so people think there is something wrong with them...Do you feel sick, or feel as if you have a psychological problem? probabyl not...333

Just so that you know, most people in the mental health field will not differentiate between goth and emo, and don't recognize a vampire subculture as anything more than another flavor (punny) of goth. No, goth is not a mental illness. *heh* According to my personal concensus of reading and observing, I see lots of depression, but then that sort of goes along with the image. So what if people are just acting morose because they think it looks cool? Real depression is not nearly as apparent as the emo kid who sits in the corner crying all the time because they are looking for attention. *shrug* It's a complucated issue.

One group is doing some extensive research, and this is one of the questions they cover in their surveys. Might want to check it out...

http://www.suscitatio.com

It is because the doctors and psychiatrists and such are taught from the beginning that things are simple and finite. These behaviors are the causes of other things. All logical. But it's not. It's that people tend to shut down at times because no one will listen to them when they just need someone to talk too. They're just consistantly analyzing, even though they say they aren't. They don't consider them to be "normal."

I am beginning to belief that many people are being over dianosed no matter what lifestyle they choose. Bipolar seems to be the one they want to label everyone.

one theory on "vampires" is they are people with an iron deficiency

I meant beginning to believe.

lolitamarie, bipolar and schizophrenic, for those who believe in the paranormal.

Labeling is when a dr just gives u a medicine then they automatically label u, Or you should first define normal , I think every one has a little abdnomalitly in them
An illness is different and to be labeled, is wrong, but todays society dont care .Goths are labeled and so are vampires, wolfs, and such other, even kids with a handi cap problem

I do feel that many are just deemed depressed and pushed pills because they do not fit what the world as it is today deems as normal

I don't think being "goth" has anything to do with it. That is a just a label. Over-diagnosis is a more general problem associated with a private medical system. In the UK where it is free and budgets are under pressure it would seem that it is more likely that you will be under diagnosed

i agee totally

Personally I think that a most people are over diagnosed. There are so many factors as to why we are the way we are and have the problems that we do it is really hard to diagnose what is wrong. Sometimes kids are diagnoed with ADD and really they just eat crappy food.

A lot of people have mental problems, not just goths or people into the vampire lifestyle, "normal" people has mental problems to, and their are tons of people who are cutters not just goth's or emo's "normal" people do it to, all the things you hear about goth's are stereotypes created by the "normal" people who have some of the same problems if not more problems...

i dont think it is a sickness or disease at all because people choose to live in that type of life style and most people who CHOOSE to do so make their choises and it has nothing with it being a sickness or disease at all.

Over prescribing and misdiagnosis is the norm today. Everything from ADD to Bipolar Disorder is being blamed for everything.

We live in an over-medicated society. It so can't be good for the gene pool.

I strongly agree with the person above me...i think that everything has to be diagnosed now days..sumone has a head ache they have sum kind of mental illness...nothing can just be anymore..i think that a lot of things like cutting and such is either a faze or its sumthing that they choose i honestly dont think there is sumthing seriously with a lot of ppl who are diagnosed...i had a bad year a while back and they wanted to give me meds for depression...i was like damn cant i just be having a bad day for once....its crazy

i think the shrinks just want money of the goth kids or people who just want to come up with there own trend

Having worked in the medical field for man many years i can tell You many a time a diagnosis especially in themental health field is a Guess and or Symptom related then when adding meds to it the diagnosis the Doctor is also guessing again and its a trial and error situation to see what works they dont know if it will work or not they are meerely trying and experimenting .. You give a med a month if its not helping or makes You sick or makes You omg worse.. You go back and Yess they try again and again and again till they get it right.. Sometimes a Person may be over medicated and unable to tell if its right or not but then family and friends need to help out there and say something isnt right.. EVen doctors arent experts , They may have alot more knowledge from study but they dont know it all and the Body is very complex as is the Mind .. That will be a Constant Wonder always something new to learn..

I don't think that the doc's are over diagnosing mental health issues i think that if anything they don't catch it a lot of the time and a lot of people are left un treated and left to fend for them selfs.

Most people are very quick to judge someone who is different and say they have mental problems, they are just scared of the things not seen as normal

if it is not "normal" thenpeople tend to state one has a mental illness and blames it on that and not the underlying cause of the situation

i can say we are all not alike maybe something we are but still differ..

lol, I think people are too quick to judge a book by it's cover. If you're dressed all in black with chains hanging down to your ankles & have a studded necklace on, it's pretty intimidating to some people, & the first thing that comes into their head is that they are freaks & a nutcase.

The whole wearing black thing is depressive in itself, black is a depressing colour, the whole culture to most people is very morbid

I don't think that the medical community here is over-diagnosing. I do actually have bipolar disorder. and it took them 4 years to diagnose it, during which I ended up moving 11 times and going through around 16 jobs. It would have been nice to have gotten a diagnosis sooner so I didn't f*** up my work history.

In the same vein, I suffered for years from cyclical fatigue and vascular headaches( that I thought were migraines but werent) and muscle pain and joint stiffness, and the rheumatologist I saw two years ago noted the swelling in my hands and some other stuff. The guy saw me for 10 min, diagnosed me with fibromyalgia.

My new rheumatologist did 14 blood tests at our first appointment, and has been working with me for the last 6 months to try to figure out what's going on and try to treat ie. She poked and proddded at me and said "You have fibromyalgia--now the question is-'is it primary or secondary fibromyalgia?

She also stated that I have bursitis in my hips, but that's probably secondary to the major inflammatory arthritis. She's also said she strongly suspects lupus. But I've been fighting with the fatigue and stiff achy joints and major headaches for 11 years before they finally sent me to a rhumatologist. She dig all the tests in the book to rule some out and figure out what's rong.

So no, I don't think they overdiagnose here in the US, at least not when it comes to mjor systemic or neurological assues. Your experiences and concepts may vary, but mine are pretty clear.

But it's pretty clear to me that in certain subcultures, there is stronger liklihood of depression and other types of clinical disorders to be present not as a result but as a motivator for getting into it.

The key thing to me seems to be that it's not the subculture that gets the diagnosis (though I suppose some doctors or counselors will reach that conclusion). The key to me is that those who suffer from depression or social ostracism will seek out the subculture as a place to belong. So while not all punks and goths are depressed, a great many depressed and ostracized people will seek out the scenes and become punk or goth.

There may well be over diagnosis because simply put the people who are psychiatrists are doctors who then went into mental health, so first they've been closeted from the world for years with their degree. Then they are given the very summerary brief on all the disorders they could come across. They aren't given much culture awareness or anything of the kind.

Also it doesn't help that there are no real set definitions for normal, there's something like four. Satistical, those outside a standard deviation from a norm value are abnormal, in terms of intelligence that makes Einstein abnormal. Social norm, but which society or culture do you draw your conclusion from, a goth is perfectly fine, but in a preppy area they'd class as abnormal. Physiologically, fairly simple, if their biochem isn't same as everyone elses. Finally failure to cope, can't live life, but where do you draw the line, someone who only goes out once a week may just like their own company.

All I'll say is my personal view as voiced by Orwell, "Sanity is not statistical, a minority of one is not insane."

anyone that displays differant views and live in an alternate life style and goes against mainstream society is automaticly branded as having something wrong with their head.
when i was in the army my CO was affraid of me because of my religious belief....he made me go to mental evals for six months (he just happened to be friends with the officer that did my evals too) and between the two of them they managed to "railroad me outof active duty. (got back in though and completed 9yrs)....
point is that just cause you chose to live as a vamp. or pagan doesn't mean you are mentaly ill you just see the world differantly than the reast of society.
i believe the goth and vamp sub-cultures are becoming more main stream cause its the "cool thing to do" much like what happened to the punk sub-culture. meaning that the main stream culture is turning the sub-cultures into fashion statements instead of just letting them be.
i'm sure that it turns alot of stomaches on here the way it turned mine when a young pagan came up to me and started asking questions about how to curse people and do other dark magic.

oing off topic isnt it fun to scare the doctor? my doctor HATES me. im sure hes got little post-it not on my file that says "if you see this woman: institutionalize her on sight!"

I think that those who "lable" us really need to "walk a mile in our shoes" to really understand how we see things.

There is no part of society that is not touched by someone with mental illnesses. why should our society be free from the label? after all humanity will always try to explain it's self...

Unfortunatly, psychiatrists that are available to the common public are so overworked they don't really have the time to get to learn all their patients. All they can do is medicate and pray.

Psychiatrists with a more expensive price tag do have time to get to know their patients.. some people just need someone to talk to on a weekly (or whatever basis) who can give advice.

When it comes to labling goths... What do you expect? If you do nothing but wear black and look pissed off all the time, people are going to wonder if you ARE ok.

Don't live the lable, people.

A lot of good imput here, especially on the overuse of designations like bipolar and autistic.

Cutting is another matter. I had occasion to do reserach on psychiatric designations from 100 years ago, 75, 50 etc.

Cutting was not on the list. It's a modern phenom.

My childhood was rough and tumble, lots of rough play, scars. I often wonder if kids are too overprotected now, don't get to naturally invoke their endorphins with natural wounds, so they turn more inward.

Well I have to agree with the way the Pharmacutical Comp. these days are billionaires handing out this drug for this and this drug for that its easy to dianose any one with anything and i have to agree with a couple of the first posting there are many EMOs that I know personally that are cutters so they are just dianosed as Bi polar or manic or any of those lovely other disorders

Im sorry, your question needs more clarification... Do you mean the health industry and their lack of research into understanding this sub-culture or the denial of those in the sub-culture that write any "psychotic" symptoms off as being part of who they are? The term for that would be sociopathic or persona displacement disorder.
Let's be honest, not all of us here are running on a full-tank. the exposure to different facets of behavior initiate a chameleon-like effect where an individual absorbs these characteristics and ultimately believes them to be part of their true persona.
Everyone else? They're all magical, for real *grin*

its jsut a bullshit stero typicol statement if you ask me

Somebody who connects goth with cutting is sorely miss informed. Anybody who's spoken to a wide range of people, and isnt living with their eyes shut can see that mental illness, and mood disrders effect anybody...it doesnt matter what sub culture they belong too.
When it comes to minors, sometimes it is the over doting parents who over diagnose their child. They want to protect them and make them feel "ok". To see their child hurting themselves, represents failure on their part. In their minds.
To see their child acting against society by dressing like a "goth" brings about the same sense of failure....depending on the parent's attitude towards the goth, emo, grunge, scene, "gangsta", gino subculuture.
It's easy to see the connection as "goth" is seen as a depressing image. But that is all it is....an image. Not a reason for self mutilation.

measuring sanity is confusing to me. how can one judge/measure such a thing? dont they have to be tested for the very same thing before they can go forth and test? what about the one who tested that person? and the one who tested him? hense my confusion.

I believe the entire psychiatric community is prone to over diagnosing needlessly and needs to step back before they start adding more labels to people!

I agree. You have to draw the line somewhere when every lively child is diagnosed as having ADD or ADHD and given drugs accordingly... The same thing with gothic type teenagers etc.

People are (unfortunately) intimidated or afraid of things they see as different. It's easier for a lot of parents to say that their child has something wrong with them than to accept them as being a little bit different, or to accept that they may have made mistakes as a parent. So they send them to a doctor who is only to happy to say 'Yes they're mentally ill' and give them some magic pill to make things all better...

It's sad and unfortunate, but seems to be a growing trend.

Growing up, we hippies were considered degenerate but we weren't a condition or a disease. Misbehaving children were "going through a phase."
People have always despised or feared anything different but I believe it is only in recent years that we have had to try to make a diagnosis. Now 95% of the children in this country are diagnosed with ADD. An easy out for parents. Homosexuality, a goth or vampire lifestyle, or any other difference doesn't constitute a disease, it is a choice. There may be other factors involved certainly, none of which demand a psychologist or psychiatrist. The freedom to be what you are or choose to be, as long as you don't hurt others or deny them the same right is a basic right. It should not be considered the basis for a diagnosis, but rather for praise.

Shadowfever, I'm going to agree with you partially. There are way too many kids being labeled ADD or ADHD, and many of the parents agree with the diagnosis so they can pump the kids full of meds to shut them up. Like you said - an easy out. Unfortunately, it shouldn't be taken so lightly as ADD is on the spectrum of Autism, and right now I'm witnessing my son having an extremely frustrating time with school because of his inability to concentrate. I will NOT put him on medications, and as far as I'm concerned it is a learning disability at this point - not behavioral. Do I think he is Attention Deficit (ADD) - yes, moreso than the average child. Do I think he's hyperactive (ADHD) - absolutely not. He's energetic, sure, but no more than any six year old.

Secondly, I don't believe that all homosexuality is a chosen life style. There is medical evidence that suggests a certain section of the brain which triggers a persons attraction to the same or opposite sex may be affected by the size of that portion of the brain.

i think that it all depends on how you act because if you're acting like you're "not there" in the head then yes there going to try and "fix" you but, i also think that stereo types come in to play to. in my opionion.

I am only speaking for myself here and from my own experiences.

Over-diagnosing like anything else is something that unfortunately does happen. I agree with some of you about children being quickly diagnosed and medicated for ADD and the like. But I don't agree with the diagnoses. I don't believe that all of a sudden people are producing hyper children by the masses. I do believe however that parents are looking for quick fixes and are too busy any more to give quality time to their children. I know I'm going to the battlefield with that statement but I don't mind :)

Over-diagnosing mental illnesses is a tricky thing. I have someone dear and close to me that is mentally ill. There was no doubt and it was no mistake she definitely needed help. On the other hand when she was first taken in for an evaluation they dismissed her with bloating and gave her a prescription for Midol! She has Schizophrenia.

One more thing if I may...and I'm just throwing this thought out there and don't mean it directly to anyone person.

People with a mental illness are the last to know..they are never aware that they are sick.

I do believe that there is occuring with children a phenomenon of grand porportions in terms of their ability to sit still and learn.

Yes, a certain aspect of it is normal behavior that is over-regulated by teachers, parents, doctors.

Another aspect may be related to the pace of our society and the overuse of TV, computers and easy ways to interact with others.

I was astounded the first time I encountered a mom who installed a VCR in her van so the kids would be occupied in the back. Now, this is standard equipment.

But these learning disabilities are just too numerousj.

There may be an environmental or biological basis.

I was online last night reading about ADHD and ADD being a possible evolutionary leap for humans and can't find the original page but the following website makes the point just fine.

http://borntoexplore.org/hunter.htm

i believe that people in these cultrures are diagnossed becasue they believe in something different taht other are scared to acept it there.

Wolfsbohne, link is great. Encourage all to read if you have an interest in this subject.

As much as no one appreciates their subculture being used as a symptom or a warning flag, I still feel that there is a point to be made on the side depression being more prevalent in the goth community that in others.

I spent a great deal of time in the goth culture (and still consider myself at least distantly part of the scene). Many of the die hard goths came from broken homes or suffered from some form of depression or were ostracized for being too creative or artsy before (BEFORE) getting into the scene. It was a reason for looking at the scene itself. A place to be accepted or to escape from the thoughts that haunted you. Most of my friends in the scene had undergone some form of counselling for depression or addiction and addiction is often a symptom of depression as well.

So while I sympathize with the happy goths or the goths that found happiness in the scene or those who more recently just thought it was super cool to dress that way, I still think the goth scene itself could be a symptom of depression - at least initially. Not a disorder itself but at least a sign of possible problems elsewhere in life (home, school, etc). Funny enough though is that the scene is also the treatment for depression since it's often there that we find friends who accept and care and promote creativity and difference.

I believe sum ppl are really mentally sick and i believe that sum ppl are forced to thinking that they are sick. I believe over half of the ppl out there taking meds and going to doctors for mental illnesses are more forced and lured into thinking they have sumthing. Like they develope it mentally when really they have nothing. But sum ppl really do have mental illnesses and they have had them and they either have always shown syptoms or are now just showing them...I think it all depends on the person/ people

Every group of people has their own problems. There is mental illness in every culture, everywhere. Lawyers, Doctors, pizza delivery people, church goers, house wifes...... everyone. Its just that this is a darker side of people so it gets exaggerated

being in the medical field that I am in and have leanred about some depressive disorders, the goth side of the house can be described two ways.

1. A way for teens and adults to reach out to others for attention as they are currently trying to draw attention to themselves to feel wanted.

or

2. It could be a depressive disorder that being plagued of suicidal thoughts manic depression possibly or even having personality disorders.

Most if the time it boils down to people wanting to express themselves or they could not find a clique they fit in and the goth community has grown so much with outcasts and such that some people that don;t seem to fit in follow the goth genre.

Please don't smash me down for my opions for they are as they are, my opinion.

Wolfsbohne, that is my point. We diagnose everyone with the problem so the children who do actually have a need are neglected. I didn't mean to suggest it doesn't exist, but that when that is the easy diagnosis then the truly needy kids are lost in the shuffle. Autism is not ADD. And great things can be done to help these kids if we don't waste our resourses reaffirming the poor parenting skills of so many.

my two sence. i love black and all but i dont do the cutting thing .. to be goth i hear has to be a cutter.. and be depressed.. well i cant say i am but other people say i am .. i feel just fine intell im stressed out by other people not doing what i ask of them . like example my son but i wont go there.. so what is the difference , is there twi kinds of goth ? the ones who cut two releave stress and the othere ones are in depreshion..

well i think the whole dam world is depressed.. if you ask me..

not a cutter just a depressed one..

I don't believe 'cutting' is necessarily 'goth' and don't really understand where such statements came about...but I do believe that depression is there in higher numbers than other scenes.

I think that people label what they dont understand and dont see that we are all individuals

medication is used way to much I do agree with that rather then finding out what the problem is and helping that. I personally don't think that people who follow different subcultures necessarily have any mental illnesses but are rather just drawn to there own like the saying goes birds of a feather flock together. But there are many in all cultures not just sub cultures that do have different forms of mental illnesses but due to the dark nature of subcultures it is just pointed out more in them then in other ones.

Most of the world like to control what they fear. I thing a lot of mental illnesses are results of people not being able to understand one another. People try to rationalize things they don't understand by sticking to beliefs they can prove and make everything else just something you can catch.

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