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CNN is now reporting that the 14 year old who shot 4 teachers and students yeserday had "mental problems". Part of their "evidence" is that he was apparently a Goth.

"Students said Coon was a "Goth" who usually wore black clothes and a trench coat and strapped an empty gun belt to his leg. He was an atheist and a devoted follower of Goth rocker Marilyn Manson."

Why when someone is associated with the Goth subculture does that association lead to the assumption that the person is menatlly ill or prone towards violence? When a "preppy" kid or a "jock" kid commits a heinous act, their entire lifestyle is not questioned. Why is this so with the goth culture?

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oh what bull.
jus because you are goth or different does not mean you are going to go shoot up a school or do something cruel like that.
Also, what does being an atheist have to do with shooting 5 people?

For the Norm class decides that a true person would not do this. So in fact as goth or someone who does not fit in society is deemed evil. Thus we are scutinized on this. see it everywhere. A tragedy for the school and community. But like anything need a escape goat, the sub culture is it. Sorry to the family and friends for this hanis act.

that was a terrible tragetly but to say he had mental powers is really messed up. To say he was goth and that gives him a reason to have done it is just plain wrong.

being goth should not mean anything. I have goth friends and they are really happy people. Like manson said they just needed some one to listen to them.

they think all goths are depressed and hate life...I love living and I only wear black

I agree with everyone, just because you like to dress in black and listen to Manson, this does not mean that your going to be prone to killing people. Anyone who believes this are just small minded

I understood that most in this culture are more inclined to self destruction than homicidal actions. Maybe I am wrong in this?

This sort of stereotyping is completely wrong. There is no proof whatsoever that the way you dress has anything to do with your brain. It has to do with what you feel comfortable in.

HEEEYY!! I was a wrestler DO NOT LABEL ME!!! just kidding I hear ya. But I did wrestle and now it is more of the same with BJJ and other MA. It is a cultural thing I guess. I guess if you look at the stats it is more likely to be a rick weenie who pops a fuse, but they almost never get the press unless it is racial. (i.e. Duke Lacross players)

*sigh*

all that i can really say is "not again"

the media likes to mkae subculture scape goats. it makes it easy for them to write the articals and make people "think about what is being said." yes, i know that it's bull s**t. but it's ture. that is simply how our media is here. and they change their target every few years. it's been the goths for about 10 years now, before that, the ravers; and before that was the hip hop community, the punks, the rock community, the hippies, the beats, even back to the jazz area. they love to sterotype and make a nice little box for them to show the world.

a goth is no different then the next person, we have jobs like everyone. we have lives. and most of goths are some of the happiest people that i have ever met because they know who they are.

they find it easy to blame goth on everything. because we wear black but yet we are the least judgemental group of people there is.

**Jeru** I know you didn't just utter that...OMG...Have you even read any of the posts about Christianity in this forum?!? Non-judgemental, I think not.

While I am not saying right or wrong, let's not delude ourselves into thinking goths or any other "subculture" or anyone else for that matter (and yes I means Christians too) are incapable of bias...

Unbelievable...

Sorry for the typo on the name JureGrando

and who is the blame..
euhm.. "why don't we call him a GOTHIC"

idiots..

How sad that this kind of ignorance goes on still......kind of wears you down having to keep fighting it.

They are grasping at straws and it is an easy out to explain why someone popped a fuse and went off the res. Course this is just MO

Well in a way I can see why they would blame someone who is "gothic" cause many times it is hard to tell apart someone who is goth or EMO. I think what attracts someone to be emo is the cutting thing and hating life like they do. I mean we must admit there is something wrong with people who are EMO,

Maybe i dont understand what EMO's are about but to me they appear to be depressed and suicidal. And if you listen to EMO music its all about suicide and hating life.

Would probably have been the same if the guy was a punk rocker etc.

it's a terrible tragedy, and shouldnt have happened.
but the fact that he was a goth has little to do with it, if anything.
*sigh*
people..

Being "Goth" was not the only reason this kid did this. The article given above suggests that he was mentally unstable. Adding the information about being "Goth" and wearing black clothing simply gives background on him. A few months back at VT, there was an Asian kid who shot up 30 or so people before killing himself - what they focused on in the media was his "plays" that he wrote. (some of the worst literature I've ever been forced to call literature).

The media didn't call this 14 year old "Goth". He called himself that. I think we might be focusing a little too much on one or two sentences in the entire article.

Manson isn't the only rock star to get blamed for stuff like this. Most of them at some point have taken the flak for some kid going off his head. People just don't like assuming that kids have a mind of their own.

They don't mention anything about all the gangsta's and techno music listened to by other offenders eg chavs, do they? It's just another form of prejudice.

oh thats so freakn stupid i hate judgementally people

Just because some guy shot a few people does not mean he has mental problems, i know people who has mental problems and they do not kill people, it will most likely will be told sooner or later that this guy was picked on and harrassed everyday, and he snaped, snapping and haveing mental problems are two different things, i bet you that their will be nothing said about the people who probably messed with him, it will only be him who gets all the blame...

Same thing differant day I am afraid KC, over and over again, the media would love to advertise for the benefit of society how the depraved cultures that they see fit to judge as such, tend to demonstrate fully of how "wrong" society is...Eh, just another individual crying out for something else. This is a good reason why I hate media bureaurocracy.

Because some people believe that all goths must have some form of mental illness or are on mind altering drugs. I do not recall the two middle aged children who did the same thing in Jonesboro, Arkansas in the 1990's being labeled Goth, but they sure killed a lot of people. I remember when the Columbine shooting happened. A big deal was made about the so-called Trench Coat Mafia, the little group the shooters started.

All this talk about what group these students belonged to or associated with is pointless. It will not do one thing about what happened and will not lead to any understanding as to why it happened. It is a whole lot of worrying about the wrong darn thing in my opinion.

It really shows what our world is really about. I hate the fact that just because people choose to be something outside of main stream they are classifide as having problems or being a problem child. The way they has he was a "devoted follower of Goth rocker Marilyn Manson" I would really like to know when looking up to someone as role model made you a devoted follower. As far as I know it Manson dose not make himself yout to be a religous leader or anything else. Another thing what dose wearing black and liking one style of music have to do with being so angry at a situation that you think guns are your only way out. Maybe if this world wasn't always trying to shut people up and shun the problems things like this wouldn't happen. Schools have become a danger zone for anyone whos not main stream. Teachers look down on the kids. The other kids call them down and are just mean in general. We need to stop trying to find someone else to put the blame on and realize that the kids that do these things don't do them because they are goth they do them because they have problems. The day the teachers and parents stop trying to put them blame on something they cant control and take responsibility themselves maybe this will stop. Manson didn't raise your child you did. I grew up listening to Manson and many other bands like him and I didn't shoot up my school even though I hated it some days. There is something wrong with these kids and its not the fact they are goth so figure it out and stop blaming other people for your actions.

goth does not mean you have mental problems i mean get real

This is just another way to put blame on somthing they dont understand.people got to blame somthing.

Actually, shooting another person out of anger because you "snapped" is known as "Temporary Insanity" - so yes, it's mental illness. Secondly, in order to be able to shoot another person, you have to be just a little over the edge - that's why military personel are debriefed when they get back from war.

yeah, that was all over the news at my school. aparently he got the gun from his older brother cuz there was a report a couple days earlier about his sister yelling at his brother and he fired some shots. so they figure he got the gun from him. dunno, they're just afraid of us. and usualy ghettos just stab people, preps just argue, nerds do... i dunno...

Nerds use flare guns. Sorry, I dig the Breakfast Club.

or just plane flairs ;-P nah, i dig the anime club! i think that ravers would use massive doses of ecstacy on their opponents. make them OD :)

I've seen hippy wannabe's do that at Phish concerts. Poor a vile of acid into people's eyes. Nasty results.

damit, once again the "normals" are blaming gothic culture for a shooter, what a surprize that is, but where are the reports about the fact that a large portion or ganster rap is related to gangbangers of which there are thousands of on the streets, as opposed to the maybe what dozen "gothic" school shooters....oh wait no one is reporting that are they...

what a load of crap!

No one's reporting gang shootings because it's too common place. It's much more sensational when a child who seemingly has everything deviates from the norm and goes a shootin'. So we need to rationalize it, and this is the result.

true in a sence, but i hate the fact that these shooters are singled out as freaks, and what not, people in all facets of life do this kind of thing...take the jealousy husband that freaks out and kills his family cause he just found his wife cheating....those type of things happen too.....

im very mad that gothic is what is blamed, and not other things like im sure he was bulllied, and im assuming he didnt have a good homelife either.....those are bigger factors in his actions then simply the cloths he wore, and style of person he choose to be...

Being goth has nothing to do with the motive of trying to kill people the truth is that there are other factors that always are going on most likely the shooter was pick on by the rest of his classmates. Im sorry to hear about this as it seems to be in the news alot lately lucky this time tho no innocent victims died in this event.

Wolfsbohne~
I do not think that temporary insanity is the same as a mental illness, mental illness is something that can affect the brain for a long time, something that you need to take medication to help or treat, temporary insanity is happening at that moment then it is usually over with and after the deed is done usually the person is regretfull of what they did...

The CNN article DOES say that he was already a violent person, that he was bullied and did the bullying as well, and that he had been carrying a gun strapped to his leg. It doesn't blame the Gothic culture for the occurrence. He called himself Goth on his MySpace.

all I can say is that I'm disgusted.

The thing is that this kid had a lot of problems. He exhibited violent behaviour at school and at home. He threatened people with violence many times. No doubt he was mentally ill.

Still, all of the above has NOTHING to do with being "Goth", dereesing in black, listening to Marylin Manson, or being Atheist. It has EVERYTHING to do with having unresolved psychological issues, which should have been apparent to the school and his parents and for which he should have been under treatment.

Yet the media has to say "He was into the Goth lifestyle, dressed in black and liked this spooky music guy manson..."

This culture is so very misunderstood and is far too often used as a reason for abberant behaviour, that has no connection to black clothing or music at all.

Raven - Temporary Insanity is an affliction of the mind, ergo Mental Illness however brief. When anyone has a bodily affliction, such as the flu, they have an illness. Sometimes the flu goes away, sometimes it kills you.

I believe that maybe it is because they think that someone who is in all black all the time is a 'dark' minded person and only thinks about killing people.....or it could be that they just don't want to except people the way they are..

if that is true, then its a large public misconception.

It would be better for the world if there was a MVP Quaterback that blows up the school.....Who was a rightwing conservative prick.....oh wait....they are just the ones that do the raping, drug dealing, and other such crimes, instead of shooting it up.

It never actually suprise me when stuff like this happen in usa. They allow almost anyone to have guns so what do they expect? ofcourse theese things happens. Sadly but true. Then it is always easyer to blame a sertain group of humans for it.

I suppose what the argument could be is not necessarily that anyone is pointing blame because of the goth lifestyle, but because the kid's style of dress and choice in music was pointed out, leaving the public to judge. Certainly noone stated he did this "because" he listened to Marilyn Manson or "because" he dressed all in black. But those facts pointed out leave the mainstream public to assume these things are related. It's really no differently stated in the article than it would be if the boy was a jock. It would have read something like "He was captain of the football team and an honor student" etc etc. If that were the case, the public then would have likely focused more on his mental illness than the way he dressed etc..
Sure it's unfair .. but it happens that way.

I really hate wehn people prosecute this way. Just because a person is Goth does not mean that they are mentally ill, or just because they have a morbid outlook on life does not mean they are all goign to go out and shoot people. Obviously this shooter had much more on his mind than the fact that he wore black.

EVERYONE THINKS ((WELL EVERYONE AROUND ME WHO IS NOT OF THE CULTURE)) that because u dress in black U are GOTH!!!! and along with that u have CUT/ATTEMPTED SUICIDE/OR HAVE BEEN A PROBLEM CHILD AND A TROUBLE MAKER FOR QUITE SOMETIME!

IF U ARE A GOTH VEGAN (LIKE ME) U SCARE MANY PPL (those that live around me that is) and **for some odd reason ppl think i'm going to one day go on a CARIVORE KILLING SPREE!!!!!! [yeah explain that one to me] PLEASE!!!!

but ur sterio typed no matter what if u wear black!!!!! ALOT!!!! lol!

IT SUCKS AND BULL but it's the FACT that we all have to face!!!!

Because people are hypocrites and bigots, and they are close-minded to people who don't act or dress as they do.

it is easy to attack something that people do not understand..

It is yet another occasion to label a group that is different from the mainstream of society.

KCRC I agree with you this person was a very sick individual, as for being Goth people tend to blame things on what they don't understand nor want to become involved with they tend to think Goths are running around worshiping Satan taking drugs and listening to subversive music.

I agree with thebatt. The Goth people that have been in my life are some of the happiest, most highly educated and well rounded people I have ever met, yet the mainstream deems this group of people to have some mental defect because of the way they look. How close-minded can you be? It has been my experience that people fear what they do not understand, yet these "mainstream people" are some of the biggest freaks I have ever come in contact with!

they fear use they see use as defferent and that makes them scaried. and it is all easier to screw with our live then preps because the "main stream" agress with it

It's the same old stereotypical bull****. They need something to blame other than the parents, or school system...so let's blame the clothes/music/movies he (or she) is into.

This sort of stereotyping is just a load of hogwash. Someone trying to pass the buck because they don't know how to solve problems on their own.

Well, I would like to ask those who classify all people that wear black all the time if Johnny Cash, the late country singer had a dark mind and if they would think he had problems or was odd? Not everyone who wears all black is Goth. Not all Goths are going to have the same mental problems as this kid and shoot up their school or workplace.

The kid had problems. Regardless of he listened to Marilyn Manson or choir music. They should not make the assumption that he had mental problems. I work with students with behavioral problems and with mental retardation every day. They get into fights but not a single one classified with either label has done a school shooting. It has always been the normal kids. As far as the goth thing goes, people just want something to blame for the kid turning wrong and goth is an easy target.

Always with the labels...*sighs.* It's sad that the kid had so many problems that he had to go and shoot up his school, but the music and clothes had nothing to do with his mental state! Grrrrr.....

People tend to look for simple answers, and the news media is the worst of all. He wasn't a shooter because he was goth, or male, or young, a loner. He was a shooter because he was sick and a killer.

I know, that's exactly what I thought when I heard about it on the news before school this morning.
I thought of my friends who are supposed "goths".
They may not be the most "normal" kids on the block, but none of them are very violent at all. not hateful. just some mostly normal kids with a few self esteem issues.


and the kids at school who seem most prone to do that kind of thing..
are the smart kids in gifted. who don't wear crazy clothes.. or listen to death grind metal and such.. =/

Im with you KCRC, thats not right, i watch the news all the time.. i dont think there mental , there just tired of all the shit that has happen to themm..

**JureGrando** Sorry, didn't mean to call you out like that. It was in poor taste I suppose. But as I said, no one is exempt from labelling and bias.

People are scared of what they don't like or do not understand. People like to blame things on goths because of this. There is nothing essentially wrong with the Goth culture. In fact, goths are some of the most wonderful people I've ever met. It's not right that this is happening.

Well we have always been the tagrest because we have no real way of fighting back in a few deckades we will just be a part of history like the hippies as much as I hate to say it.

people dont like what they dont know or understand

i agree they don't know much about goth they hear that and they think that we are all evil, and have bad intentions.

Time and time again I come across stories like this and it truely angers me...It is another typical news story they can pin along with Columbine..about how the gothic subculture and Marilyn Manson did it..."Oh no!..the goths are turning our kids into murderers..blah blah blah.." Im so sick of hearing people blame things on the media and music...music is an artform..I do not beleive that music can "make" a person do anything...that person would have to already be mentally deranged to let themselves go thru with pulling out a gun and shooting a bunch of innocent people...instead of blaming marilyn manson and all the goths out there for ruining our youth..why dont some of these parents take a look in the fucking mirror...or better yet, maybe they will begin to realize how much society has gone downhill already for various other reasons...



It just makes me so mad when people attack and judge things they dont understand or have even the vaguest concept of what it entails...It sickens me..it really does..how close-minded and judgmental humans really are..


simply pathetic.

They never questioned about the VA tech shooter. Yea, he killed himself, but all they said is what he did and then he killed himself. It's ignorence, there's nothing that we can do about it, it's stupid.

What these dumbass people need to realize. Is Goth is a term that has been around since the rensiance, era's it is a term used to define certain types of art not merlery a life style. But people are poorly miss informed about a lot of things if they would just take the time to educate themselves. Tehre wouldn't be as many judgments made. But untill then oh well whatever. Pick up a book everyonce in a while People don't believe what you hear on Cnn. But then again just because it is written in a book doesn't make it true either. If more people took the time to learn about such things thoug as Goth, Vampires and so on there wouldn't be as much finger pointing as there is now. These thigns have been around a lot longer then oh lets say Christianity and Catholosism. Many of their traditions are taken from the Pagan and other relgions pre dating Christianity and Catholosism. But do they admitt to it no.

The same as usual.

Society and it's prejudism.

Maybe the boy was mentally ill and he took on the Goth culture because that's where he felt accepted. Being Goth had nothing to do with his crime's but it sounds like his mental illness did.

my dear friend,,,,,,,,,,,HUMANS,,,LMAO,,,,,,,they always fear what they dont understand and especially what they cannot own or ha ha ,,,,control

,,,,,,,,,U,I AND ALL OF US R DIFFERENT,,,,,,,,,but everyone is judgemental of something,,,,,,,,,,,,i m NOT a judge or jury,,,i m me,,,,and a lycan,,,,,,,,,,,,,i m a non sub, smart ass of the 1st order and i adore goths,,but,,,,,,,,,,i m always me first,,,,b well

To me it is people fearing and disliking what they do not/ can not understand. All of us are different but for some reason if you're goth then you're all alike. I don't really get it. I never will. People are just ignorant when it comes to certain things.